I can't imagine insulting a potential play patner's job.
Maybe he thought she was into degradation and humiliation?
As for politics, I never met anyone with a politics kink.
" I hate that guy. Tell me again that you voted for him while me have sex. It makes me hot!"
So, I do not discuss poltics.
There are plenty of places I can go to to fight with people over politics. No reason to do it in bed with someone I just met.
Some people are screening people as if they are looking for mates, and not just play partners. In that respect, they seem not to be able to restrain themselves from political conversations. Used to be you could have friends with opposing political views but that is becoming a thing of the past for many.
If you're talking politics on any sort of regular basis at LS parties, you can expect to get dropped from the party invite list for the parties we have and attend.
Being locked in the friend-zone is a thing. We have some really good LS friends that we don't play with. They went through a weird patch in the LS and one half was having some issues about doing vanilla things with LS people, which is something we both enjoy. The other half told us they really enjoyed our friendship and didn't want to risk screwing that up just for sex. We respected that and are still good friends to this day. We don't care if we ever play with this couple as we enjoy their company regardless.
[quote=Harleycouple12]We don't mind meeting for a drink or two before we get naked, but not going out to dinner then talking for hours just to go home. Who wants to play on a full stomach lol. Time in life is valuble so when we get together with other we like to play and have a few pleasures and laughs, if we become friends from it great but if not at least we all had an amazing time and good memories.[/quote]This pretty much articulates how we feel, and how a couple of our encounters have turned to friendships. Maybe it's just us, but we feel it would be more awkward to be friends first, then get naked and play.
We have walked away from a few initial meetings with couples. Either one (or both) were shabbily dressed, they expressed extreme political views that were polar opposite to ours (we don't mind opposing viewpoints, but a sexual encounter isn't the place for them), or one husband actually berated my wife's profession (she's in education) and it became combative.
We treat an initial meeting over drinks as an audition for sex. If two couples agree to meet from an initial conversation on this site, they have already semi-agreed to have sex assuming no one screws it up over drinks.
[quote=Harleycouple12]We don't mind meeting for a drink or two before we get naked, but not going out to dinner then talking for hours just to go home. Who wants to play on a full stomach lol. Time in life is valuble so when we get together with other we like to play and have a few pleasures and laughs, if we become friends from it great but if not at least we all had an amazing time and good memories.[/quote]We completely agree with this.
We don't mind meeting for a drink or two before we get naked, but not going out to dinner then talking for hours just to go home. Who wants to play on a full stomach lol. Time in life is valuble so when we get together with other we like to play and have a few pleasures and laughs, if we become friends from it great but if not at least we all had an amazing time and good memories.
It's a valid question, considering that the swinger lifestyle is predicated on the random sharing of sexual intimacy, outside of relationships. At the same time, it's about the breaching of solid relationships in order to enjoy sexual relations with swapped partners from other relationships (or those without relationships). Concurrent to that, it does allow for relationships to spring from enjoying sexual relations with the new party, stemming from a very positive chemistry. I hope all of that is clear. Haha! Now, in "vanilla" dating, there's an etiquette whereby one party prefers not to be deemed too easy, and so they insist on building a friendship together prior to any sexual intercourse. Some in the swinger lifestyle apply this etiquette, but with more of a view towards safety, and because they may be wired in such a way that sexual desire only kicks in when there is a sufficient degree of familiarity. Demisexuals. I get it. I think.
The happily-married couple who took my lifestyle "virginity" were two very pleasant, down-to-earth people with a wholesome appearance and vibe. However, they invited me directly over to their home on Day One, and within an hour of greeting me at their front door, we were all naked in their upstairs bedroom, and I was having bareback sex with the very lovely wife, my first experience ever with a married woman. And it happened right in front of her husband. Welcome to the jungle! Great chemistry. But that became the odd foundation of the friendship which ensued. Subsequently, we would enjoy ourselves in normal social settings, going out to restaurant dinners, a housewarming party, to the movies... I saw them as friends, even though the "cherry" had long since been "popped," if you'll pardon the crude analogy. So, in returning to the bedroom following such "vanilla" outings, it did add something more to our getting naked, and my climbing into bed again with the wife.
For those profiles that say they want to be friends first, and "get to know you". We just pass them by. A 10 minute, chat is all we need to know if this is a go. It really sucks when you're at a party, chatting with a hot couple. A few hours go by, only to find out that they like to watch.
We'd rather hear about what you like for Kicks, than hear about your kids.
We aren't so cold though. We have some couples that we really enjoy their company as well as their bodies. Those are the best ones. But we do not look for that. If friendship happens that's a bonus. But it is not the goal.
For us, we like casual fucking. Sometimes we are a Fuck first, Names later. If we don't get your names, then it was probably not that good anyway. And no repeat required.
Through the years of swinging, we have developed casual relationships with people that we haven't played with. The problem for us is, we no longer lust after these people. This is what we call "Friend Zoned". It seems to be a 4 way opinion. We know you too well to want to fuck. There are a few couples where this has happened. Now, if we were all involved in an orgy, it would be likely that we would fuck these Friend Zoned friends. But it would not be planned, rather spontaneous. Then it isn't the people that drives the sex, it's the environment.
We don't have to be friends or become friends with those we play with. But it has happened organically, and we certainly value those friendships as much as the play time when we get together.
But we do have to at least like/respect those we play with. We've met couples where things brought up in conversation were a turn off. Could be their views/opinions, could be the way they say it. We're respectful and tolerant of those with opposing views and opinions. Everybody is unique and different.........that's what we love about this.
@DB - The online people that you have good communications with but haven't yet met would fall under the category of "penpal" for me, as in -
"a person with whom one becomes friendly by exchanging letters, especially someone in a foreign country whom one has never met."
They are certainly capable of becoming friends, but "friend" in the LS has a different meaning than a vanilla friend, as in -
"a person whom one knows and with whom one has a bond of mutual affection, typically exclusive of sexual or family relations."
Especially when it comes to that "exclusive of sexual relations." part, or at least that is the hope. As we all know though, we can have LS friends that we don't play with.
So answer me this. Those that you communicate with regularly in these forums, and share similar viewpoints, would you consider them online friends, or maybe just online friendlies? Would you have to necessarily meet in person to be considered a friend?
While We can certainly agree with most of what MsMolly said, the chemistry has to be there.
The "lifestyle" has volved into a much more lets get done to it mentality. For some building the required connections become a chore, and others feel its a necessary. function before the clothes come off,
A long time ago, on another web site, it was written that if you are doing this on a person to person, or couple to couple basis, you are going to run into the inevitable issue, of personalities and sexual incompatibility. In the friends first frame of mind you are dating another couple and just like dating, you decide if you are going to fuck them or not,. Our rule of moving at the speed of the slowest person, has stalled things a number of times. 3 are ready to get naked and one is not.
The OP, didnt give any indication what the issue was with John and Tammy, just that the first time wasnt that great. Personal experience says, go for another round now that all 4 are more comfortable
Then is it safe to say that sexual chemistry is what drives the friendships in the LS? Great friends and bad sex don't seem to mix. We all have friends that we haven't slept with or choose not to, so have friends that you don't have sexual chemistry with would be a waste in this environment. I agree with goodgolly, I don't believe you have to be friends prior to playing. Having that spark, general interest and comfortability should be enough for the 1st round of play. After, if everyone is on the same page, building that bond and connection outside the bedroom shouldn't be an issue.
If 6 months passes, and they're still around, you have a friend indeed lol
I don't believe John and Tammy exist. And I don't believe friendship is something that occurs over the course of a few meetings. So, if presented with a 'we wanna be friends first' declaration, I'd probably ask a lot of questions about what that meant. I'm guessing it would probably have something to do with learning enough about the other person/people to be comfortable enough to fuck them, which is familiarity rather than friendship. If the sex is bad, it depends on why it's bad, but no one is entitled to a second chance if you're not inclined that way, even if you've spent enough time together to be superficially comfortable. So, if I were somehow morphed into John and Tammy, I'd just thank the other couple and say I didn't feel enough chemistry to do it again.
As far as having friendship as a destination, that's one of my goals with playmates. I'm completely happy to fuck strangers and move on, but if I'm going to see anyone more than a few times they have to at least make it through some internal sifting process that sorts possible friends from people I like, but not well enough . If they're still around in six months or so, they're friends.
“ But for those who require that a "friendship" be established prior to play, and to be able to throw it away because of bad sex seems counter intuitive. What was the purpose of "building the bond" at that point?”
How about that couple that meets in work. They flirt, joke, laugh and become great friends. One day they decide to take it to the next level and it ends up being awful. Do they stay friends? Still joking and laughing? Nope, one of them quit and found a job elsewhere, while the other talks shit in the lunchroom on the person that all other coworkers thought was their BFF. It’s just life, we tend to think acquaintances are our friends. They’re just a fond or lousy memory.
I agree with OE on the order of things. It can also be a goal and not a requirement going in.
One risk with becoming really good friends is, if that happens and sex doesn't, there's the risk that the sex may never happen. That happened to us and there are no regrets in having good LS friends we don't play with, but it's even nicer having good LS friends that you do play with ;-)
I don't think of the friends inside and outside of the bedroom thing as being chronological. In other words its more a statement of intended destination: something a bit more than just a casual sexual connection.
I think having lifestyle friends that you don't bang has value. So, if there nothing wrong in mutually agreeing to take sex off the table if the connection isn't felt.
So most of you are saying that you would give them the benefit of the doubt. If the first time was bad due anxiety, misunderstandings or performance, you would communicate that and try for second chance. Fair enough.
Others however will choose to dissolve the friendship completely if the was bad.
In a sense, it can be assumed that even though you can be great friends in the LS, if the sex between each other is subpar; then the friendship is not worth it.
If that is true, what is the point of becoming "friends outside the bedroom" BEFORE having sex? I can understand friends AFTER sex. Now let me clarify. I don't believe that you should just jump in bed with anyone. Neither do I feel that you need to do an FBI check (in some cases) on the people you're involving yourself with. However I do believe that there should be a general interest and intrigue, some knowledge exchanged between the parties involved, and comfortability before sex is brought into it. Which can be achieved through conversation and drinks at the bar or a meet up at few events, for example.
But for those who require that a "friendship" be established prior to play, and to be able to throw it away because of bad sex seems counter intuitive. What was the purpose of "building the bond" at that point?
I'd second the thought about it depending on what was bad in the first meeting. If it turned out to be something like personality conflict or disrespect, there probably wouldn't be a second date and we'd just likely drift apart. If the disrespect was blatant, there'd be words and it would be clear we had no further interest in meeting again.
If it was just performance anxiety, we'd likely give them another chance and chat about what would make the next time better before our second meeting. Many times we find newer couples want to do same room play because they think it will be hot to see their partners having fun, but then find they were more distracted by it than expected. If that's the case, we suggest separate room play. Many times that resolves that specific problem.
OHW, good for you. Second chances are important. Some people may take time to understand that naughty talk is not nasty talk, that there is a difference between “dirty” and disrespectful.
Hot dirty talk during sex is like fun trash talk in sports. Practice makes perfect.
We have had an experience with a SM where he had a great personality and we 3 hit it off very well. Wife loves dirty talk during sex. We made it very clear with the guy what she was into. Didn't happen with him. After she and I talked we decided to give him a second chance. Reaffirmed to the guy what she expected and that he dropped the ball the first time. Second time was way better and since then we have enjoyed his company a number of times. Maybe give the couple a second chance and see if it is better.
Most who have been through it will tell you the same thing - friends from fbs, not the other way around
While becoming friends they’re building a mental and physical attraction. They also most likely can’t wait to get down to business. If they build to that point and are really disappointed, something was really bad. You can get over performance anxiety at the first encounter. You can get past came too quick because of excitement. If you’re now buds and have had all that build up, then were that let down., three words. Adios mother fucker!
Ghost. lol
We're here to play. That being said, we don't mind a strictly social 1st meeting to gauge chemistry. At times first playdates have been less that satisfactory for Diane usually due to the other male having performance issues. We're usually willing to give it a second try, but if it happens again, we drift away. Friendship in the lifestyle isn't quite the same as in the vanilla world. We have become friends with some couples we share common outside the lifestyle interests with & do vanilla things with as well as play.
