The Secrets to Getting Your Sex Drive Back: With My Libido Doc

Transcript

Speaker1: This podcast is intended for adult audiences. Over the age of 18, it contains adult language and situations. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to us, and not of any employer, organization, committee, or other group or individuals. This podcast is not intended to be taken as professional advice. Welcome to the Swing Nation podcast. A podcast by swingers for swingers. Where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions associated with our lifestyle. Come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe. Interview the experts. Learn and grow together. Join the nation. So Lacey, people are asking, how do they get to go to a party or an event with us? They check out swingersociety.net, you create a profile, you sign up for an event, and you come hang out with us. Super easy. That's right. If you want to party with us and the other faces and names that you know from social media and TikTok, head on over to swingersociety.net. Can't wait to see you there. Hey there, pineapple people. And welcome to the swing nation podcast. We are your hosts, northern guy and southern girl. And today we have a special episode for you. We got a virtual guest here in the studio. And she is a doctor, a best selling author, international speaker and host of the libido lounge podcast. Dr. Diane Mueller. Did I say that right? Mueller? You did. You nailed it. Nailed it. Thank you. Well, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So happy to have you here. So we usually like to start out kind of the same way we start out most of our lifestyle conversations and just to get to know you a little bit and for our listeners to get to know you a little bit. So if you don't mind just telling us a little bit about yourself. Sure. Yeah. So as you said, Dr. Diane Mueller, double doctorate, board certified sexologist. And one of the things that actually initially got me into this world of talking about sex live in many scenarios was actually about two and a half decades ago in my early 20s. I was finding myself, I was very, very like strict Catholic race. And so there was a lot of like dogma I was still kind of sorting out through in my body. And I was finding myself in this chronic vulvar pain. And that pain, I went to, this was before I went to any of my medical programs. And so I didn't know medicine yet. And went to the doctor after doctor and nobody knew what was going on, but everybody said every test they did was normal. So great, no STDs, you know, no scary things, but still what the heck is going on with my vulva that's keeping me up in this like fiery pain every night. And so a roommate at the time handed me a book and this book, many listeners might know, It is called Sex for One by Betty Dodson. And in this book, Betty was talking about through her self-pleasure practice and through teaching people how to self-pleasure, she was finding that pain was going away. So I read this book and I was like super scared because of, you know, how I was raised and all that about trying masturbation. And so when I did, because I was in so much pain, what was so interesting is the pain went away. And pain comes back the next night, try it again, pain goes away. And so this was a really pivotal moment for my life. And in many ways, my career, it still took, you know, decades before I started talking about this live and that sort of thing. But it really began the pinnacle of my self-study and my research in the world of sexology because it was one of those moments that we have, you know, those moments we have as humans that just kind of make us question everything maybe we've been like told on a topic. And it really made me start asking myself different questions, such as from a religious point of view, like if I'm made in the eyes of God, then why do I have this part that can heal me that's bad? And so it really, really started breaking down a lot of the dogmatic and cultural beliefs that I had. And fast forward 25 years later, and here we are. So I'm trying to think if I can ask this question without sounding weird. So was the pain just pent up? What was the pain? It's a great question. I actually think now that I am in the medical field, what I actually think it was was a bladder condition known as interstitial cystitis, which is kind of leaky gut of the bladder. And it can actually refer to the genitals. And it is a nervous system. Oftentimes, the nervous system gets agitated as part of what's triggering it. So I believe at least like medically, when I've thought about it, it's a really good question. And of course, being in the medical field, I've tried to figure this out, right? To go backwards in time. But I really think what was happening is due to oxytocin, due to dopamine, due to all the hormones that, you know, those love hormones that we get released, that we now know rebalance the nervous system. I think it was helping my nervous system reset that signal to my bladder. Gotcha. Yeah, I feel like if I don't come for a while, I hurt too. So I can relate to that on a personal level. I just didn't know if there was actual science behind. Well, and you know, I was thinking about something yesterday. This is random. But Lacey also hurts when she doesn't come for a while. No. You know how some women are like, I have a headache. I can't have sex. I'm the opposite. If I'm like, if I have a headache, I'm like, make me come or I'll make myself come because sometimes it will make my headache go away. So I could imagine her being like in college. Like, guys, I've got to go home. I've got to masturbate. It's a medical. It's medically necessary. I've got to feel good. Yes. Yeah. I mean, for you, it's stress relief. It's, you know, a lot of things. You too, babe. Well, yes. We get along better if we come. Yeah, it helps with the world go round. And now, you know, what's interesting, too, is like, I don't know if you guys have seen this. There's only a couple companies doing it. Mystery Vibe is one of them, the vibrator, the sex toy company. And they actually have their devices at Mystery Vibe. They are approved for use with HSA or FSA. So you can use your tax-free money on your tax-free HSA accounts to buy the sex toys. And that is because they do a lot of their own internal studies. I love this company so much. And what they're finding is pains going away for people with things like vibrator use. So now you can buy at least their toys because they do meet the criteria. You can buy their toys with your FSA funds. I've never heard of that before. That makes sense as well. Yeah. I mean, they sell them at Walmart and Target now. So why not? Yeah. Yeah. They're not just massagers anymore. You can be honest about what they're used for. Right. We're not getting a back rub. You can use it for that if you want, but that's not a name that's probably happening. Yeah. So I'm always fascinated. So, okay, this happens. I'm also, you said two and a half decades ago, which that math didn't math for me. I was like, she said she was in her 20s, two and a half decades. I was like she doesn't look like she's old enough for that to be true do you not think she looks our age maybe maybe yeah I guess that was I guess 25 so that was around I guess 45 you forget how old we were yeah I was gonna say like I guess 20s was two and a half decades ago we are 41 years old so that's a little over two decades but I'm always curious how people get into the field of sexuality and intimacy so you kind of gave a little bit of your pre-story so that was the initial catalyst. And the part that really for me decided like, you know, I think I want to actually start publicly talking about this was after a little bit of what we talked about. We talked about this in our pre-call when you and I, we all had a conversation, which was I had throughout my life once in my mid-20s and then again in my mid-30s done a open relationship. The first time it was a kind of a open closed scenario. It was a And so we were together and we could have other partners outside the triad, but it was mostly closed to that triad. So it was a little bit unique there. And then in my 30s, it was a fully open consensual non-monogamy. Really, I was married at the time. It was really a polyamorous type of scenario. So we were, it was much more of like, you know, many loves and many deep relationships versus like a true, you know, swinging type of culture. And what I really decided after that second round, which was very interesting. I was like, oh, yeah, I am very, very clearly wired for monogamy. And as people are hearing the story, like I actually would go back and look at that time and say it was really successful. Like I wasn't really fighting with my husband about it. Like we had great conversations. We were, you know, we were able to talk through the things that came up. I just found that I didn't really like it that much. And so it was successful from the standpoint of, hey, this was it's It's not like it was like this crazy scene of like, you know, all this anger and whatnot that I think some people might picture. It was really like loving and kind in our conversations. It was just that just learned that. And what's interesting, too, is to see like studies on prairie voles. So prairie voles are used a lot to study for open relationships versus non because prairie voles are one of the few species that are monogamous. They do mate for life. And what they have found is when they change the vasopressin in the prairie vole's brains, and vasopressin is one of our bonding hormones like oxytocin, and when they change the vasopressin, so the easiest way of saying it, so the vasopressin doesn't have as strong of an impact in the prairie vole's brains, then all of a sudden, a prairie vole that has made it for life will become very poly, very open. And so, you know, that's an animal study. That's not human, obviously. But it is interesting to consider. What is a parable? What kind of animal is it? Kind of like a rat. Okay. I was like, I had no idea. Okay. I was thinking a bird. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm like a prairie dog animal. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Sorry. Continue. I apologize. Exactly. It's a good clarifying question. Yeah. So, I mean, so that definitely, like, for me, then, you know, started me thinking, like, oh, wow, this could be just a wiring thing. Like, you know, my ex-husband learned that he was definitely the So he felt very, very sure that he was, that was the lifestyle for him. And we went our separate ways and, um, you know, and that was that. But it really did then get me into the thought process of, okay, the good parts of that I loved of the open, you know, scenario, one of the most obvious things, right. That anybody listening knows whether they done open relationships or not is like that excitement, right. That, that newness, that novelty. So it then led me down to a study of what's really happening in the brain under novelty. And how can we do our, how can we take that same science and how can we actually apply that to monogamy? And it's not going to be 100% the same, right? Because of course, nothing like that is, but we can still take a lot of that science and apply it to monogamy. So that became something that I decided, hey, there's a lot of people like me that are, you know, struggling. And while I do 100% in my heart believe this is amazing. The open relationship is 100% the right thing for some people. Then for others, I feel like are in categories like me. So that's where my passion's been is helping people more in categories like me that are interested in that excitement and that passion. And what is this chemistry and the brain chemistry behind how that happens? And so how can we bring that into monogamy? Yeah, that's actually, you know, when you talk about the oxytocin, did I say that right? Oxytocin. Oxytocin, yeah. So when you talked about, you know, giving that to animals and then animals that would otherwise be monogamous, being a little more promiscuous, it is interesting. We've had lots of conversations of like, are humans naturally wired to be monogamous or non-monogamous? And if you look out throughout history, you know, there's been different cultures that have kind of gone both ways. And you can kind of find, you know, examples of both really throughout time. And then for me personally, when I look at a lot of the monogamous Well, really, a lot of them were monogamous, not in actual practice, more in just, you know, in societal, you know, the societal norm was to be monogamous. But when you actually looked at the way people conduct themselves, a lot of the men, especially, were non-monogamous. So I've always wondered, like, you know, is there the science behind that? Like, are humans even meant to be monogamous? Are some humans, like you're saying, maybe it's just if your genetic makeup or the hormones in your body are a little bit different? Maybe you are more prone to it where others aren't. I find that whole subject very fascinating. And I don't really know if we if there's really any true studies that give any real answers to that. Yeah, that's the only one I've seen. And to be clear, just in case I misspoke, it's like it's vasopressin that was studied, which is kind of like oxytocin's twin hormone for bonding. So it really was the vasopressin. And interestingly enough, another time that men in particular release a lot of vasopressin is when they overcome major So like, it's like thought like the bonding when like, you know, it's like men are doing sports and there's like a big win and they have defeated their opponent. That bonding that bonds them together as a team may even be due to vasopressin. So there's this different style, this different type of bonding. But at least in those studies, it was that particular hormone that seemed to be related to whether the prairie bulls decided they were monogamous or not. Interesting. Yeah. Well, especially as a military guy, we talk about a lot about like trauma. Right. So like those guys you go through combat with are like your brothers. And, you know, it's because you went through something traumatic with them and you have a bond that's a different level. It's interesting that you say there's like a specific hormone that they can target for that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about your life then. So you were in your 20s. You tried non-monogamy. You then in a triad situation, it sounds like you didn't get married to either one of them. It was just kind of a dating. Correct. Yeah. Okay. And then And then you grew up and you're in your 30s, you get married. And then were you non-monogamous right off the bat? Because you thought you were? It's just something you got married for a while and you explored that? How did that happen? No, we were monogamous in the beginning. And it was something that he had wanted. He was interested in the beginning. And some of our early conversations were around like, I really don't think I was questioning the same thing around like, I really don't think I'm wired that way. And so the earlier conversations we had was he was like, yeah, I'm interested in that. But it's not like, you know, he was saying it was not a requirement. And, you know, at one point and I just like continued my reading around, you know, various things, all your classic books. I reread The Ethical Slut. I'd read it a zillion times prior than that. You know, your mating, captivity, sex at dawn, like all the classics. Right. So just like going back through some of the classics and rereading those kind of things. And one day I just woke up and I was like, I think I want to try this. So it was a very easy conversation because he was already kind of leaning that way. And so then we, you know, basically kind of just started talking about, okay, well, where were our boundaries and how are we going to start and what was this going to look like and built from there. Yeah. And I also find it interesting that you, it sounds like you, you said you went into an open relationship, more like polyamorous. Do you find yourself somebody that has to have a deeper connection with somebody to be intimate with them? Is that like part of who you are as a person as well? It's definitely how I have leaned. Like I have had, you know, I've had one night stands. I've had those kind of things that are purely about sex. I have not found them like very fulfilling, honestly. And definitely from a standpoint of, you know, reaching climax and like I can climax with somebody if it's there's like not that other, you know, there's not that deeper emotional bond. is like, okay, well, there's no one human that can satisfy everything. It really is not just about sex. And so it was also just finding that there were certain things that I felt like beyond sex that, you know, we were not getting in our marriage from each other. And so there was also that element around like, hey, is this a way that we can still stay together and still, you know, get these other needs, sexual and beyond men. So there was a few different factors, honestly. And then, so in that journey, at what point were you like, this is not, this is not for me? Trying to think if there was an exact moment. I don't know that there was an exact moment. I just, it was definitely like more, I think of this voice over time. And it really, I know when it was starting was when there was, you know, these kinds of conversations that would come in because like we were very into, as I think most people are in the non-monogamous community of like safety and testing. everybody that comes in. And so anytime there was a new partner, um, sometimes like one person would meet somebody that, uh, didn't want to, you know, fully test at the right time. And, you know, so there was all these like conversations around safety coming in and, um, and, and there was just, well, I was starting to have conversations that were like actually filling my body with stress, like not out of like anger, jealousy. Like, of course there was jealousy to work through internally. Um, but that was not a predominant thing. for me by any means. It was way more of like, gosh, like these conversations are starting to make me feel like I'm at risk in these various ways. And while I was working to mitigate them through conversation, it felt like like I felt like there was a safety thing, you know, there for me. Yeah. Yeah. I can totally understand that. That makes sense. So as much as we want to be safe and it is very important to be safe, it also takes a little bit of sexiness away. Like, I mean, let's just be real. It does. Even though it is important. and we have to do it. It does. So I can see how, if maybe you're leaning towards it not being something that you're interested, how that could be a factor. Well, and always having to ask people and always having to make sure it just, it does get to be a lot. Yeah. And it's like the more partners, it's like, okay, you know, it's like you and your primary. And then if everybody has like a couple of partners and they have a couple of partners, it's like the wheel of impact just like spreads out. Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, and one of the things I was running into is like certain things that are like more questionable, right? Like we know we can spread STIs through blowjobs, through cunnilingus. And but a lot of people have different personal viewpoints around risk with that. Yeah. Oh, it's like, you know, sex, penetration, everybody tends to be aware of on the same page with that. But then you bring in like, where is that? And how do you balance people's needs? And it was just it just found like it was I found I was spending way more time than I was interested in having so many conversations with people around what is your need around this how do you make sure that we have your needs met or my needs and I just felt like it was frankly taking up a lot of my time also in the testing in what's the word I'm looking for every every doctor tests different every doctor considers a full panel to be something different so where someone could go to their doctor and say I need a full panel they might not be getting throat swabs they might not be getting anal they might be having anal sex and then not so yeah and especially if like if you're meeting people that are not super educated on that which honestly most people aren't we're super educated on it because this is what we do we've basically been taught about it for four years we've had to teach a lot of our friends so i can see that because i feel that way about the oral swabs in the lifestyle because a lot of people don't get that and i feel like dan and i are are sometimes like the oral slob. The oral slob police? Yes, oral slob police. And that's, again, it's not fun and it's not sexy to be that person of the group. So I get all of the things you're saying. It makes sense. Yeah, that is important. Yeah, somebody going on Amazon and getting an $80 test, you know what I mean? Then going to a real facility and paying $300 to get fully tested. So I understand why people are doing it. Yeah. But if you don't fully understand the risk, like you're saying, that's why you need to get the right testing. Well, then everyone wants to be told that they didn't test right. You know? Well, then I can always, you know, like you said, different people have different levels that they're okay with taking risk. Yeah. But now if you have multiple partners and they have multiple partners, how do you get everybody on the same page about what our rules and boundaries are and what levels of risk are acceptable in play, you know? Exactly. And then, you know, and that's just the STI component of it. And then it was like the level of like, you know, it's, I think the, the swinging world tends to be, I think, a little more cut and dry, but like the poly world gets like a little bit messy where it's like, okay, well then you have your poly world where you have your primary, you have, you know, and then you have a poly world where everybody is like considered equal, where there is no primary. And so the reason that's important is that, you know, we, in my, relationship then, at that time, we were in this primary scenario. And what that essentially meant was like, okay, the fundamental relationship that we're leaning towards to protect is, you know, is our primary. But when somebody comes in, the polycule that is in a non, you know, relationship like that, that's in a very, like, everybody's at the same level type of scenario. Then what happens in that scenario is like, okay, well, you know, this person wants to take somebody out of town, but it's on this person's birthday. And you're kind of dealing with, well, this person is allowed to travel until seven o'clock on Sunday because of their primary relationship. But this person could be gone for like three weeks and has no rule. So there's all these other like weird things to navigate around. How do you deal with the day to day vacations, fun night out? What are the rules? What are the curfews? That's exhausting. Complicated. Yeah. God bless the people that can do that. I, you know, like we have some friends that are some people that are very successful at it. And we love and respect them. But I'm like, yeah, that seems like a lot of every time me and Lacey have looked at those types of relationships were like, I don't I can barely keep up with her shit. Like, you know, I mean, that's a fold. Keeping up with her and her crazy is a full time job for me. I can you start you times that even by two. I don't think I'm capable. I don't think I'm capable at that point. I mean, yeah. Yeah. But same thing just to like make sure I'm, you know, I'm emulating that because I do like while I am I'm very clearly not in that relationship style. I have a lot of friends and colleagues being in this world that do it very successfully. So people do. But I just the point is, it's like I think sometimes it's like people go into these situations and think it's like, oh, just like fun and flowers and roses and hotness and fantasy. And like, yeah, it is a lot of those things. And. We've seen quite a few crash and burn. We've seen some crash and burn. We do have some that are successful at it. So we've seen it go both ways. But it definitely seems like a lot of work. But to take up for polyamory, a vanilla person, non-lifestyle person would look at Dan and I and think, oh, my God, that seems like a lot of work being swingers, talking about testing, talking about, you know, protection, all of that stuff. So it's all it's all, you know, based on how you look at it. Well, it goes I think it goes back to what what do you want? Like what type of relationship you want? Do you want? And it sounds to me like you went into this. Not really even fully wanting it. But then once you committed to it, you're like, okay, I'm gonna do this the right way. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna try my best to make all this happen on the way it's supposed to. And then you're like, man, this is a lot of work. This is more, I didn't really want to do this in the first place. And now you're putting all this work on me. She kind of did. She said she was starting to think. She was hesitant. Yeah. She kind of came around to the idea. Yeah. I went into it, I would say, like, with an open curiosity of, you know, of being open enough to it to say, you know, I'm, I'm interested enough to check this out. Yeah. You know, there was what I would say, like a healthy skepticism there. I was definitely wasn't like, I am a hundred percent this, you know, but I did, I didn't feel it any way. Like I was like forced into it or anything like that. I felt like I was like very clear around, like, I'm doing this. Like, I'm going to see if this would be a valuable thing for, you know, for myself and my relationship. So I went into it with like a, yes, it was just, I would say it very skeptical. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So I guess we should give it. So what were some of your favorite parts about being in a polyamorous relationship? Meeting people, having different, you know, having different types of experiences, you know, it's like a pretty wild thing, you know, to think about like going out for a really fun vacation with a new human and experiencing all the get to know you and all the amazing energy and chemistry. And then, you know, bringing that home to the stability and, you know, all the wonderful parts that can come with like that, that strong. positive, you know, more firm relationship. You know, I met some really amazing people through that community. So I'd say the community was a huge part of it. Definitely revved my sex, you know, my sex life up. It revved my libido up for sure. So I do think there was, you know, from a standpoint too of just like, you know, fantasy, like there's an element where it's like, it kind of turns like fantasy. There's a hotness that I think most humans have throughout their lives. life, which, you know, whether or not they're going to act on it or not. But I think most humans still have, like, the idea of, like, being with another human, like, okay, that sounds hot. I think that's common. And being able to actually play into that and live that out a little bit. But really, I mean, I think the biggest thing was just, like, was for me, it was interesting to have gone to the poly world, because truly the most interesting thing for me was truly the sexual experience of it all. Yeah, I agree with all of those are all my pros, to be honest with you. I totally agree with that. No, I don't. She nailed it. I agree too. So I guess if I'm hearing, so why, why not swinging? So it sounds to me like a lot of the things you're saying is you're not capable of, you know, the multiple, you know, you need a primary relationship or you desire a primary relationship and having too many, you know, connections off of that was difficult for you, but you really like the sex. So, you know, I appreciate you asking me that. I have all the times I've talked about this. I don't think anybody has ever asked me this. So I really appreciate the question. I really, I think, you know, a couple reasons. One, for sure, like the STI, like you said, like, you can take all the, you know, all the tests you want, and you can be cautious. And I think most people are able to do this very well. But it is a higher risk. And medically speaking, from a standpoint of of, yes, I've worked with a lot of chronic illness. I got real sick in my 20s and thought I was dying. So I've gone through a lot of personal health stuff earlier in my life. And I think it's just like there's a huge element, like probably as my number one driver, where even though the risk can be mitigated, I still really don't want to take the risk. So that's a huge, huge part of it. And there's other things, you know, it's like one of the conversations, I have with people when they're, you know, considering this is like, okay, well, rather than just thinking about the fantasy, make sure you're considering, like, if you're at a swinger party, like, how are you going to feel about seeing your partner have sex? How are you going to feel about them kissing somebody? What if they do develop, like, feelings over, you know, you know, for this other person, even with boundaries and all that? Like, how are you going to manage that? What are you going to do for, like, aftercare to, like, get back on the same page with all of, you know, all of those things? So while I think there's less to mitigate, and while I know I could mitigate those things successfully, it still just feels like an element even with those factors of mitigating and spending time talking through that and working through that, that frankly, I just am not very interested in spending my time doing, honestly. Yeah, no, I can see that. You know, I mean, it is a lot. And I think, I think that's why, like you said, it's important to realize the fantasy of it all, but then also realize, okay, and in a lot of ways, you can live out those fantasies in real life. And that is exciting. But there is real life consequences and real life like work that has to be done in order to achieve those fantasies. Yeah. I want to say something, though, because I was actually thinking about this yesterday. We recently had a friend test positive for an STD. And of course, she communicated it to me. And I was thinking about it. Dan and I have been swinging for almost 10 years and we have never had a positive STD. Now, we're going to be test it tomorrow. Just like be like super transparent. I might not be able to say that tomorrow. I don't think we have anything. We're just being super cautious. But so I think it is important to say that if you are safe and if you do all the right things, I mean, even if you do all the right things, it might happen. But I think there is a way to be a swinger and to still be safe. I mean, obviously there will always be risk. There's always risk when you get on Tinder and you go meet somebody that way too. So I definitely think it can be done. It's just you have to be a very responsible person. Yeah, I think every individual has to do that risk versus reward, you know, in their head and say, okay, these are the risks. These are the rewards. Am I willing to take that risk? I do agree with what you're saying. I do think in some ways we over scare people with some of the STI and STD stuff. I think that personally. Okay, but the reason Dan says that it's a few years ago, we had another scare where somebody else we knew had something and so we got tested just to be on the safe side and we got treated just to be on the safe side because we were leaving the country and we didn't want to get like in it and so dan so we got the like the antibiotic shot and dan was like oh if i get to fuck all these people and have all this fun and all i got to do is get an antibiotic shot all ever so often this is great yeah i did not feel the same way not to be you know like you said even a lot of the stuff is really easily treatable and doesn't have long-term effects But there are some things that are not easily treatable, or even if they are treatable, still have long-term health implications. So again, I think it's a risk versus reward for everybody. To me, the reward is worth the risk. You are a bit more riskier than some. But I've been a little risky my whole life, so that's not unsurprising. Okay, I think now is the perfect time to take a little break and hear from the partners and sponsors of the Swing Nation podcast. And then when we get back, I think we'll still talk a little bit about non-monogamy, but what we really want to talk about is libido. Because that's kind of your jam, right? My jam. All right. We'll talk about that on the backside. Lacey, one thing I don't leave home without when going to a swinger event is my ED medication. That is correct. Performance anxiety is 100% a real thing. Having sex in an orgy room with 100 people in there is way different. than having sex at home in your bedroom. It is. So I like to have what we call a little insurance policy and have some of that ED medication in my pocket. Shameless Care is who I use for that. And they actually just came out with a new product called the Shameless Duo. Yeah. Which is a combination medicine that has Viagra and Cialis in it. So that one, you can be ready whenever. But also it's got that dose that you can take when you're, you know, as you're getting ready to go to the playroom. that to kick in. Yeah. So I love it. I mean, I used it at Hedo for the first time and that combination. You kind of pretty much switched to that, haven't you? That's basically what I use all the time now. Yeah. So if you're looking for ED medication, if you're new to the lifestyle and you're going to an event, you might want to get some and have it just handy in case you need it kind of thing. Yeah. And the really cool thing about Shameless Care is they don't set you up on a reoccurring plan. So you're not going to get all of this ED medication that you have in your nightstand built up. When it's time that you need more, you'll get an email from them and they'll ask you, hey, are you ready for another round? And you can respond back. Yes, please refill it or no, I'm good right now. Thank you. So it's really cool because you don't end up with all these extra pills and spend a bunch of money that you don't need to spend. Yeah, and my favorite part is you don't actually have to go into an office and talk to your family doctor or a military doctor. You can do it all right online from the privacy of your home. You just go to their website, you fill out some forms, the doctor reviews it, approves you, disapproves you, and you move on from there. So if you would like to get some medication, you can go to theswingnation.info, click on the little recommended apps and products, scroll down to the shameless care icon, click on that, and that's going to take you over there. There's some discount codes there for you so you can get a discount off your first order, but I highly recommend if you're going to some events or parties, go get you some lifestyle insurance. All right, guys. Check it out. Lacey, the question we get asked on social media and TikTok more than any other question is how do I find lifestyle people, lifestyle events, lifestyle parties, lifestyle cruises, lifestyle people? I think I already said that. Yeah. In my area. Basically anything lifestyle you need. How do I find it? You need to get on a Swinger website. And SDC is one of our favorites. It's really big here. in the Southeast U.S. for sure. Yeah. And it has all the clubs listed. It has all the parties listed. You can find information on cruises. You can find our podcasts on STC. Yeah, you can. And if you want to try it completely risk-free, we have a free trial link for you. We do, yeah. So how do people go and find that free trial link? If you go to theswingnation.info and scroll to the bottom, you're going to find some of our favorite products and brands, and you're just going to click that link and go straight there. All right. find lifestyle people in your area. Go sign up for SDC. Completely risk-free. Yeah. And see if it works for you. I agree. All right, guys. Go check it out. Lacey, if you're going to be a swinger. Yeah. You need to be a responsible swinger. I agree. And part of being a responsible swinger is getting tested on a regular basis. Yeah. Now, something I didn't know is not all STI, STD testing is the same. That is correct. Not every family doctor. fully understands how you should be getting tested. That is correct. What one doctor thinks is a full panel, another doctor may have a completely different version of that. And being somebody in the lifestyle and engaging with multiple partners, what you should be getting tested for is probably, if you're not telling your doctor that, what you should be getting tested for is probably different than what they're thinking in their head. Yeah, because they don't know your lifestyle. Or even if they do know your lifestyle, there's a like, for instance, There is a new one called Imgen. And we just recently met a doctor at a lifestyle party and said that she had never even heard about it. And so she was awesome that we had educated her on that. So a lot of these doctors don't, they don't know it all. Right. So if you are going to participate in the lifestyle, you probably need to get tested from people that are meant to do this. Yes. So we use I Know My Status. We do. It's the same people behind Talent Testing who are, there's a company that's test all the porn stars. So they're used to testing people that engage with multiple partners. They know all the latest on what STIs are, you know, coming up and, and spreading and they track all the stats. I mean, they, they know how to test people for STIs. They're the experts. They are. And if someone that you engage with, you know, if they have used, I know my status, they can actually give you a QR code and you can scan it and you can see their results right on your phone. So you can confirm everything. that they're telling you. Yeah, 100%. So please, if you're getting tested, get tested the right way. We recommend using I Know My Status. You can go to theswingnation.info, recommended apps and products. Scroll down to the I Know My Status icon and you can get a discount off your first test. But please, if you're being, if you're swinging, if you're engaging with people in the community, please be safe about it. Go get tested. Yeah, because we want you to fuck like a porn star. For sure. All right, guys. Welcome back. Welcome back. Thank you for listening to our sponsors. We love our sponsors. We do. All right. We're here with the libido doctor. So we have to kind of talk about libido. We have to pick our brain. All right. So this is kind of your thing, right? Yeah. Low libido, desire, mismatch, all things passion and desire, really. Yeah. And I really think libido and sex drive, especially when you talk about monogamous, and this is kind of, I guess, where we can tie this in to swing. and non-monogamy. I think low libido or low sex drive or couples that are in long-term monogamous relationships and not having very much sex, I feel like it's almost like an epidemic in our country. Do you agree with that? I do. I do. It's very common. And, you know, it's like one of the things that I think has happened is like we start conflating and confusing the words common and normal. So when things start happening to a population that are common, then we tend to use the word normal around like, oh, It's normal for passion to fade. It's normal to not have a libido at this point. It's normal. And what we really mean is it's common. Because normal, if we're looking at the word normal, it means like, hey, everything is healthy and well. And that's not, if your libido is low, I don't care what age you are. Like, we see that STIs, like back to the STI conversation, we see that STIs in nursing homes are on the rise. Like, people as they're getting older are having more sex, right? It's good for all of us as we age to know this is very possible. Swinger and Nursing Homes. Oh, God. There you go. 30 years from now, babe. There's your visits. Save that one. So, you know, point being is that just because something is commonly happening to people, I think oftentimes then couples are like, well, we don't like there's not a problem. We don't need to look at this because, you know, Joe and Sue and Jane and Peter and like all the other couples in their lives are having the same problem when actually it's just so common that. Right. So like car crashes are common, but we don't want to be in a car. It's not normal to be in a car crash. Like it's not something you want to experience. Correct. Yeah, that's the difference. Tracking. Okay. So and then I guess where this ties into us. And again, I am shocked the amount of guys. It's usually guys, but emails we get that are like some guys like I haven't had sex with my wife in three years. And how do I talk to her about becoming a swinger? And I'm like, don't talk to her about that. Maybe talk to her about why you haven't I haven't had sex in three years. You want to go to the swingers club this weekend? I think there's a lot of steps you need to get to between that. But we get those kind of emails almost weekly at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of that, honestly, is like in those scenarios, like some motivation, you know, and I don't want to get any emails out there telling me like there's other motivations. There's many motivations for emails like that. But a common one is, okay, well, if I haven't had sex in three years, I need this need met. So I'm going to go get it, you know, met elsewhere. And I think it's one of like, if people are thinking about, oh, do I become a swinger? Do I go into a consensual non-monogamy situation of anything? It really is like one of the fundamental places that I tell people start is like, well, what is your why? And if your why is to get your needs met from a standpoint of like, you're really not getting your needs met in your relationship. The first step in many ways is like you said, it's like, okay, well, let's start the there, because this is like, this is like, I look at, I look at personally, I look at open relationships as a, another like relationship blessing. We could call them in scenarios, but not as a fixer. I could not agree a hundred. I agree a hundred percent with that. We always say like, before you even consider opening up your relationship or becoming non-monogamous, you need to be on a solid foundation with the partner you're with. Like, like you're, like you said, it's almost like a swinger is like a pro. move, but if you don't have the basics down, you don't go, you know, like you don't, don't jump in the ring with a UFC fighter. If you haven't learned how to box yet, like it's just correct. People do it all the time. And there's, they are the ones that end up in a fight at a club or somebody that, even though they have boundaries, somebody starts talking to somebody on the side or starts having, you know, that's the couples that like fail miserably at this. And then they give the swinger world, like they give us a because they went into it with maybe not the greatest intentions and didn't really they didn't focus on their relationship before they did it correct I couldn't agree more and so you know really if like if you're feeling like okay well I need to go get this need met elsewhere the first step is to say what's going on with the low libido and what's going on with that desire discrepancy because that's like part of that right like one partner being like oh I want to have sex every day or multiple times a day and the other person's like well I'm fine with once a Yeah, you know, in the extreme scenario, right? It can look many different ways. But that's, I think, the fundamental thing. And one of the things, too, that comes up a lot in my discussions is, well, what is low libido? Like, how do I know if my libido is low? And people ask me that, like, how do we even define that? And it's real messed up, you guys. It's like, like the medical way of defining low libido, what we actually call it in medicine is hypoactive sexual desire disorder, that mouthful. It's got to go. And how you define this or how you get a doctor to diagnose that. Like if I'm going to diagnose a patient with that, you know, that lengthy low libido term, I have to diagnose it. But after they come to me and for six months in a row, they say I have a low sex drive. So follow me on this circular logic. If somebody comes to me and says for six months they have a low sex drive, I diagnose them with low sex drive. compared to what? So that's one of the biggest problems, too. And, you know, and so I look at surveys and studies where we say, OK, well, where are relationships from a happy perspective, the happiest? And what we see in research is intimacy is sexual intimacy once a week. Now, of course, there's benefits many for many different things, plus the fun, plus the joy, plus all the things of having sex more often. But from a standpoint of where we see like, hey, what is kind of that like breaking point? where if it falls less than this, relationships tend to not be as strong. It's that once a week mark. So that's what I tell couples around like, hey, if this is happening less than once a week, that's really kind of your warning bell to say, hey, we want to start prioritizing and figuring out what's going on here. Cool. Yeah. And I think looking at it, a lot of the people that we've talked to is it's almost like, you know, they get married in their 20s and 30s and they're having sex four or five times a week and they do that and then they end up you know then they have some kids and then they get you know they get there you get promoted at work and now you know they're taking kids to the soccer practice and they're you know they got a bunch of stuff to do at work and so then that drives down and then like you're saying maybe they're only having sex once a month or a couple you know once or twice a month and so they think like okay there's a problem with my relationship so i guess is is it the the desire that's not there is that their life is getting in the way? Is it all the things? It's usually all the things. So I've never seen one situation, right, where there's only one root cause. Not saying it can't happen, but I've never seen a situation where somebody has something going on more like long term, like low libido, like we're talking about here, where there is there's only one thing. It's always a multitude. And how I diagnose these, and this is I I talk about this in my book, which is there's three pillars of root causes. So pillar one, we have all of the physical things, right? So this is our circulation, this is our hormones, this is stress, this is thyroid, this is pelvic floor function, on and on. Those, you know, and usually there's more than one root cause thing going on there. And then in pillar number two, we have all the personal reasons. So these are the stories we tell ourselves. Do we have body shape? Do we have genital shame? You know, how well do we know our own body? Like, do we really know that the clitoris is not just the little nub, but it has these long legs and this shaft and it extends deep into the body, right? Like, do we know our own body? And then pillar three is more the side of how well can we talk to our partner? Can we talk to them about our fantasies? Can we explore some of our fantasies that we co, you know, co-hab? Can we tell them what we like? Can we tell them what we don't like? You know, like that level of being able to communicate and and talk openly about this without getting the ego offended and without shaming each other. That's all in that pillar three. And I find that most of the time people have something, at least one thing in every pillar involved and many times multiple things, you know, even in a single pillar. Okay, so when couples or I guess even somebody that's in a relationship and feels like they're not having adequate sex, where do they then start? I guess because it sounds like this is complicated and there's a lot of things going on. So when somebody, where would you say they need to start? Like just evaluate like a self-evaluation or how do they do that? There's two different things that I would recommend. And the first is that we'll talk about like in some ways the easier one first because for many times, people find like the physical stuff being the easiest because it's a little bit more linear. I'm like, oh, I found a problem. Here's a simple solution. So from the physical standpoint, the easiest thing, I have a great free quiz so people can go take my free quiz at libidoquiz.com. And what you're going to find there is when you take it, it's going to spit you out quiz answers that are going to say, hey, this is most likely a combination of circulation and neurological issues. One of the problems that we find so often for people is they go to their doctor and like, let's say they, you know, somebody has ED, which is tends to be the first, you know, sign of a heart problem in men is erectile dysfunction for many men. Let's say somebody has that. Let's say a woman has vaginal dryness or pelvic pain, or, you know, we're just going to the doctor for low libido. Let's say any of these things. And you go to the doctor and the doctor tends to run the most rudimentary tests that don't tell you a whole lot. It's kind of like what we were talking about offline around like, you know, sexually transmitted infections and like not All of them are tested. And like, okay, what's the problem? Well, Lacey went to her OBGYN and wanted to have her hormones checked. And he, they literally told her you're not old enough. Yeah. He said, come talk to me in 10 years. And I ended up finding somebody else, find out that my testosterone load was low. Something was wrong with my thyroid. And like, if I hadn't advocated for myself, I would have went 10 more years and not had any idea, but I knew something. I knew there was a deeper issue going on. So. Exactly. So that's kind of the point of the quiz. So when you take the quiz, at libidoquiz.com, then it'll spit you out answers. You'll get an email with answers that say, because of your test answers, here are the top 10 tests. Your doctor's probably not going to run them. Here's why you need them, and here's how to advocate for yourself. So that's a really good starting point. But the other big thing that I find is we see that 92% of people that are having great sex, that report great sex, talk to their partner about it. 92%. So, you know, this goes like, so, hey, though, for most people, it's so common to have these conversations and they don't go well and then they get swept under the rug and people never talk about it again. So I have a whole process for that. But, you know, that's more than we have time for today. But I always like to give people a foundational step because I love when people can hear podcasts and take action. So foundational step is start to just talk to your partner and just drop in conversation when is appropriate around, meaning like not in front of your children. around things that you love about the way they touch you, around the way they make love to you. And if you're not having sex, talk, you know, talk to them about like how they hold your hand, how they hug you, how they kiss you, whatever it is, anything in the physical intimate space, be incredibly specific. I like when you do this right here, this is how it makes me feel, you know, et cetera. And what you're doing, it's just like when like relationship experts like the Gottman's at the Gottman Institute and their surveys and their studies on relationships, relationships, what they have found is the success of a relationship can be, is if you look at how many oftentimes people say positive things to each other versus negative, what they found is couples that ended up being like healthy for long-term say a minimum of five good things for every bad thing. And the same, yeah. Good thing we're having sex, babe. And the thing that is like, we can apply that to sex, right? So it's like the more we build up that sex bucket to say like, oh, wow, every time I talk about sex or the majority of time we talk about sex, I walk away feeling like a sex goddess, sex goddess. I feel awesome. I'm providing all this for my partner. I feel great. What that's doing is it's helping the nervous system associate talking about sex is safe. Talking about sex is fun. I leave after we talk about sex and I feel good. So that's kind of that foundational starting point is just getting used to talking about it. but making the nervous system really associate the good with the conversation i really like the way you you gag on my dick sometimes that it makes me feel really what you're making feel really not expect that i'm sure you do is that going to encourage you to yeah that works that do it the right way doctor we might need some practice oh she wasn't impressed she's like i wouldn't have went there too far dan that's my middle name okay What? You're not going to try? Oh, you wanted me to do that back to you? I do good. I'm on the spot. I'll keep going. There goes my whole self-confidence. Baby, you have a big dick. It's my favorite. There you go. I don't know if that was a... I literally like it when you have a big dick. Every guy likes that. Just hush. But for learning, to play on that, like, okay, baby, you have a big dick, and then I love the way it feels, dot. There you go. That's how we're personalizing a little bit more. It makes me tingle. It makes me feel XYZ. Just making it personal goes so much further than just that sort of thing. The other thing we like about this podcast is we get a lot of free therapy. We do. We joke and say this is our therapy because it kind of forces us to talk. We talk to a lot of relationship specialists. They're like, no, tell me all of your... Let's talk about that. That's so great. Thanks for emulating. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So encourage your partner. Tell them what you like. Correct. And literally, that's like, I would, if somebody is not having a lot of sex and is not talking about it, and like, and especially in the example you're giving where it's like, oh, wow, we haven't had sex in a year and we haven't talked about it and all that. I would, I would do a step like this for a solid couple weeks on a regular basis before even moving on to the next level. Like you want to get this practice. You want to get the nervous system really associating like, okay, we're doing this right now. And it's, but it's, it's, I kind of like it. We want that to, that foundation to really feel strong. We do of course, and want to have conversations around like what we want to improve, but we don't even want to begin that right away. So in this scenario, would you tell your partner, like, I'm like, I'm in my mind, this is like the husband or the wife, not together. But one of them going to your website, doing the survey, it's telling the quiz, it's telling them what they need to work on. And then they start doing this. Like, I don't think of it as like a couple coming together and saying, we should really have more sex and sitting down. Does that happen? I'm sure. But I think a lot of times it's usually one is a little bit a few steps ahead. So do you tell that partner, hey, I'm going to start complimenting you? Or do you just start doing it and see how it goes? It sort of depends. It sort of depends. It kind of depends upon where the relationship is. is with like, is this going to strike them out of left field? If it feels like too far and it feels like, oh, this is going to be so unnatural if you're scared, any of those kind of things, it's usually a great lead-in to be like, oh, I was listening to the Swing Nation podcast. I heard this great talk. Maybe don't start there if you're not having sex. Just say I found the LaVita podcast. I listened to this podcast. We don't want to freak their partner out. Yeah, fair. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Because I definitely don't take for granted how nice it is that Dan and I do talk about all of these things. We've both been in relationships where you didn't really talk about sex as much as we do. Things weren't as free. So I'm sympathetic to people that are in these relationships that they can't just look at their partner and say whatever pops to their mind. They have to think it and kind of plan it out and kind of proceed with caution. So I think that's important to talk about. Exactly. And, you know, we do, like I said, we do get to that point where it's like, we do want to say like, oh, that thing that you've been doing for 20 years, I don't like it. But we don't want to say it like that. Yeah. Like another really great approach is for people to realize like we're bringing things up that we don't like, like our bodies change. And like, and that sounds like so obvious and cliche to say, but it really, I think so many times we bring the way we make love from one relationship to respond like the old partner. And not only are we like different, of course, as humans, but it's been very like shown in research that our bodies change as far as what we like throughout life sexually. For women that are menstruating, it changes throughout the time of the month. There might be times where like the clitoris likes to be touched in one way and another time of the month where it's like, hell no, stay away from, you know, from that level of strength or intensity, for example. So the way that oftentimes I think we start approaching those is just to start making sure we're having conversations as well. It's like, you know, I'm starting to get curious. I'm listening to these sex podcasts and I'm learning that my body might be different than it used to. And like, it's making me want to explore things in different ways and almost coming at it instead of like, you're wrong for doing this. Of course, we never want to say that, but really pad it in the curiosity of like, I'm learning things. I'm curious. I might not know my body. as much as I want. And I want to explore that with you. Can we explore that together? Get you, you know, we need to get couples back on the same team for these kind of conversations. Yeah. It's almost exactly how we tell people when they want to bring up swinging to somebody is instead of saying like, I want to fuck other girls and say like, you know, what are your fantasies? Oh, you know, are there ways we can explore those fantasies together? Like kind of what you're saying, because if you, you started a different way, it's, you're going to off put them immediately. Yeah, exactly. And the guards go up and like, as soon as somebody is feeling unsafe in the conversation, the conversation is going to be over as far as being productive. Yeah. Now, as far as hormones and all that goes, it seems like we're coming a long way in testing and treating like with hormone therapy and understanding how that affects the body. And there's all these, you know, newer drugs that you can take to kind of help offset some of this stuff. Have you seen that? So are hormones becoming as you age, keeping your hormones, you know, at the levels? I'm answering, but I'm not the doctor. But I think you probably think that because you hear me going through this because I'm hitting that time of my life. But maybe it is that we're aging. So all our friends, but I've never heard my parents talk about their hormones or getting their hormones checked. They're like, I feel like this is like our generation is the first kind of generation to really. Maybe so. But I do think that I was very surprised how much I had to advocate for myself. Like if we didn't have this podcast, podcast where I get to talk to these amazing doctors and know the things that I should ask and when, I would have just said, okay. And then I would have spent, you know, these years like being miserable and not having any idea why. So, but I mean, you do, you do bring up a very good point about our parents not really doing that. I think some of it, if you look back in like the late 1900s and the early 2000s, there was like, that's when all the major women health initiative studies came out. There were like hormones cause cancer and so So much of that has been debunked. I go over some of that research in my book, Want to Want It, as well. So I do think there's been like this huge shift in movement of like, oh, hormones are a lot safer than what we were taught 25 years ago. And also, there is an element, too, where some of the research that kind of got shoved under the rug at that time of really looking to say, oh, the earlier as women, but also for men with andropause, that we start hormones. the better cardioprotective, the better heart protective it is, the better cognitive. So for our brain and the better bone health, the earlier we start these hormones, the better. So I'm on, you know, I'm 45 and I'm on like all the hormones. Like, you know, I, it's just one of those things that it's like, we want to start these earlier as possible. And now we know there's a lot safer than we used to think. And then there's other additional things we can do. For example, we can give supplements like DIM that helps our body process the estrogen. even better and adds an element of safety as well so we just we just know more and I think because some of that research got debunked I think a lot of people are becoming just more that feeling safer about it than they used to also probably I can't remember when I was young 40 50 seemed so old I feel like that doesn't maybe it's because I'm getting older I don't know but it seems like I feel like I'm in like my peak sexual time of my life like way more than my 20s so maybe women are in and men I think we could talk about this stuff all day long, but unfortunately, we're about out of time. If people are interested in you and you want to learn more about all of this, is there some place they can go to find you? Yeah, a couple places. Go check out my book. It's at want to want it dot com. So you can find it there. And then I did mention the libido quiz. So that's at libidoquiz.com. I have tons of free offerings, you guys. I have a novelty checklist, how to talk about fantasies. I have a lube guide. A lot of women are using lube that is very bad for their vagina, very harmful and can set them up for more ease of infection. So my lube guide can help you with that. But tons of other freebies. So if you just go to my main website at mylibidodoc.com, there's a freebies tab and then you'll get to all my fun free content as well. That's awesome. Awesome. Well, super fun sitting down with you. and learning all about libido. And thank you for letting us pry into your past life a little bit and learn some lessons from your experiences with non-monogamy. We really appreciate it. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. It's been great being with you both. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I think with that, in a world full of apples. Be the pineapple. Be the pineapple, guys. Bye. Bye. If you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us, we have a five-star review. If you want to see more of our content, you can find links to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, OnlyFans and more in the show notes. Come join the conversation with us and other Swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server. If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingnation at gmail.com. Make sure you head on over to theswingnation.net and keep up to date on all things Swing Nation. We thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you next time. Goodbye. That's so hot.