"Fortunately for us, I can’t remember when we last received a rude or insistent reply to a rejection. "
Nor can I. Is it coincidental that two couples who try to be polite in their "not interested" responses don't seem to have problems with rude people, and those that choose a different path get rude responses, or is it just me?
I do recognize that for Yeaokay, the OP, the situation is different. As a single woman in the lifestyle, and in society in generally, she’s approached by way more people who assume they are entitled to her attention. I know a disturbing number of men (and some women) who see single women as prey.
Fortunately for us, I can’t remember when we last received a rude or insistent reply to a rejection.
If someone is a insistent, self centered whiner (NC) it really doesn’t matter how we reject them. We can be blunt (No!), we can be rude (fuck off!), or we can be empathetic; it doesn’t matter with those people because they’ll keep trying to close the deal like a west Texas used car dealer.
Fortunately, we’ve found those people to be rare. Most people go away quietly, however the empathetic side of me realizes that most people, even if they don’t ask, go away wondering what they did wrong.
Since I know that when being rejected, I appreciate a short note explaining why, I try to follow the golden rule and treat others as I’d hope they would treat me
"Is she your property? Why can't she answer for herself?"
I actually had an SM come back with something like this once after telling him we weren't interested. Our profile defines our stance on SMs fairly clearly, and he didn't bother to read it. Many times these days, I don't even respond with a reply at all to these sorts of messages because it opens the door to hurt feelings and fruitless and bitter back and forth messagess.
This is case where it doesn't matter how well a message is worded/tailored. In order to have a tailored message people would need to read our profile, and if an SM read our profile they likely wouldn't be sending a message in the first place.
How the heck did this thread go from whether "No" is a complete answer from someone being propositioned for casual sex, to whether it's appropriate for a customer service rep dealing with customers?? Completely different situations, requiring different approaches. The person being propositioned for sex has zero obligation to provide any sort of service and isn't beholding to the propositioner as some sort of customer!.
The reason just about every LS venue has a rule saying "No means No" is to keep people from feeling they have to explain themselves or handle some uncomfortable volley of objections, justifications or arguments from the other person. Some of the other posters are spot on - giving some sort of "no" including reasons for it just opens them up to counterpoints to the reasons from the other person. No one wants to be in this situation when all we're trying to do is have fun. How do we know this - because we've been there, done that! Just be polite and direct and it should be the end of it right there.
Charles Darwin wrote-
“ Those communities which included the greatest number of the most sympathetic members would flourish best”
Acting in ways which are sympathetic, kind, and polite generally produces better results in the long run.
Not saying that we should be pushovers, or overly accommodating, but having a “fuck you” response locked and loaded is often counter productive.
@SLS - I completely agree. Those that reply I just leave a lone. Thanks for being kind and considerate. I have been trying to spread this kindness for some time here.
@Wayne
When you give a definition of why you said no, it leaves it open to interpretation, judgment, and discussion.
If I sent a message and asked if your wife would be interested in meeting.
You replied, "No. You are too old."
What does that do?
I can come back and now start asking you the following:
Is she your property? Why can't she answer for herself?
or
I lied on the profile. I am actually . . .
or
I look younger than what the pictures are
or
Well, I didn't want to fuck that fat cow anyways.
or
. . .
As you see, it leads to a conversation. A conversation that most people getting the message don't want.
This is why, if it really makes no sense, the opening message was shit, we just move on.
If it does make sense, then we respond accordingly.
"And if all of you want to cut-down on having nasty follow-up messages from people that you rejected, then give them more than a "No thanks". It will do wonders for cutting down on the nasty follow-ups."
I agree with that. We include the phrase "We aren't both interested at this time. Our attitudes are constantly evolving, so if things change we'll be back in touch". It's always true: Sometimes she's in but I'm not, and vice versa. We've NEVER had a hostile response to a "No" that included that phrase.
The second part is true as well: We really HAVE changed our minds more than once after meeting a couple in person at a club/etc.
It's also a gentle let-down. It gives both people cover ("I wasn't the problem, it was my spouse") while giving them legitimate hope.
It shows you have manners. A complete lack of response, or a one-word "No" response is a sure-fire way to never get another word from us.
It also helps deal with the potential hostility you risk with a blunt "No". Speaking from experience, chatting with someone interesting in person gets pretty damn awkward when you both realize one of you rudely rejected the other online. My skin still crawls when I think about the last time it happened.
My 2c, YMMV.
"And if all of you want to cut-down on having nasty follow-up messages from people that you rejected, then give them more than a "No thanks". It will do wonders for cutting down on the nasty follow-ups."
The problem, as I see it, is not the simple answer of no. If I am getting nasty responses from people, the problem is theirs. It seems that you are asking me to adjust my behavior in how I respond to satisfy the sensitive nature of an immature adult.
Let's just agree to disagree on this point
Actually,
I would like to know...
<p>Actually, I agree with you on this:</p>
<p>"<span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:open sans,sans-serif; font-size:14px">The answer of no is correct, but you will need to explain why it is not so you continue to have a satisfied customer...."</span></p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:open sans,sans-serif; font-size:14px">And if all of you want to cut-down on having nasty follow-up messages from people that you rejected, then give them more than a "No thanks". It will do wonders for cutting down on the nasty follow-ups. </span></p>
<p><a href="https://www.swinglifestyle.com/profile/lookup.cfm?usercode=59071673">sfnative_</a>,</p>
<p>My answer to you on every point you made is, "No". No, I don't agree.</p>
<p>Now, are you the least bit curious as to why my answer is "No"? </p>
Wayne,
With all due respect I have to say that I disagree with you, and your reference in comparing customer service to a woman needing to explain her answer, is off the mark. (IMHO)
If a woman says "No" in any circumstance, there is no explanation needed. Whether you are offering her a drink, asking her out on a date, or in the throws of passion. If she says no, then that is that. She may not feel comfortable explaining why if she know that further retaliation may follow.
With regards to couples, and I have been doing this for sometime now, READ THEIR PROFILE! If you sent a note even if they have on their profile "Single guys please do not contact us, if interested we will reach out to you" Your note says to them that you ignored their profile, or did not bother to read it all the way through.
No, No Thank you, we are not a match... These are all answers that we as ADULTS, should be able to handle, and as someone pointed out, if you are that sensitive to rejection, then this is not the place for you. (in my humble opinion)
Wayne,
Customer Service is exactly that, you are here to provide a service, so the answer of just no does need explanation because most customer are not experts in the field of service that you are providing. "Hi, I am here to pick up my car, is it ready?" The answer of no is correct, but you will need to explain why it is not so you continue to have a satisfied customer....
Or No we are not bringing back the email capabilities to SLS because it cost too much money, or whatever the reason is so we all have a better understanding. as to why you made that decision that affects me as your customer. (Apples and Oranges)
I get the sense of entitlement sometimes with the reactions from people. Remember NCsingle was like that and would lash out from rejection. But he was an extreme case. I have received many different types of responses, and often no reply is a response. I know that it is not a personal affront to me, I simply may not match what they are looking for, and that is perfectly ok..
Disagree completely Wayne. We NEVER give an answer to "why?" to whoever gets a no. Believe me, no one really truly wants to hear the truth, which is generally something along the lines of you are "too fat/thin", "too old/young", or just simply "we do not think you are attractive". Whatever the answer is will likely be hurtful in some way or another, and there is no reason for that. "Thanks but not a match" is polite and sufficient.
<p>I'm going to comment on this:</p>
<p>"No" is never a complete answer. There is always a reason behind it. As customer service, I would never just answer a customer with a "No". That would almost always elicit a negative response back from the customer. I always follow it with a reason for the "No". </p>
<p>Whenever I use this default picture that shows my wife, I always start getting messages from people asking me if we want to play (funny how no one ever messages me when it is just a picture of me). I always give a reason along with my "No thanks":</p>
<p>"Sorry, my wife and I are not meeting any new people at this time."</p>
<p>or, "Sorry, I am a member of the SLS support staff and do not use this profile for meeting people".</p>
Mayhem is entirely correct. As she transitioned out of the "terrible twos" stage to nursery school, our daughter learned the power of the phrase "Please, may I..." as in "Please, may I have a cookie?" When we had to say, "No", we made sure to say it gently. She still was disappointed and would remark "But I said please very nicely..." . Learning how to ask respectfully, learning that the answer was not always yes, and learning that "no" was best accepted graciously became such an important life lesson for her. She now is a successful professional. Her role involves requests and responses up and down the chain of command. While saying "no" or being told "no" in a professional setting is not the same as the personal context, the sensitivity with which she does both--delivers "no" and receives "no"--is clearly rooted in our shared early experience. Rejection is hard. Being unable to manage rejection is harder still.
I said it before, but I think the first time you're on the receiving end of a "No" response, it gives you more perspective when you have to deliver one.
Declining an invitation requires social grace. Accepting a decline requires a different social grace.
All of life is about managing "no"--the fact is that few if any of us hear "yes" with any frequency, and then it usually is in response to "free beer" or similar. It's not just the lifestyle, and developing skills around saying "no" and accepting "no" is always helpful.
The social grace begins with framing the "no". While "no" is a surely a complete answer, it's gentler to frame "no" with "thanks for the offer, but no thank you". It's still a "no", but acknowledges that the offeror made an effort. Asking always risks rejection, and that makes the asker vulnerable.
The other social grace, of course, is in accepting rejection. None of us like rejection whether it is a job application, a book submitted for publication, or an ask for a date. But rejection is always more probable in life. "Thank you for your candor" works well for us. Now, if it's a job application, or a book that was not taken, it's fair to ask for critique. Sometimes you'll get it. But do not ask for critique when it's about a date or something more intimate. Just say thank you and move on.
Giving and receiving rejection are learned skills. Mastery of the emotions surrounding rejection is foundational to success in life--and in the lifestyle.
Most of the times we (meaning I) deliver a "No" response, it's to SMs. We specifically say in our profile that we are not looking for SMs in our profile unless at a LS party or if they have a woman to bring along.
Usually the exact message is something like, "Since we both enjoy seeing and hearing each other having fun with others, a single of either sex is just not as much fun for either of us." That is actually easy, because it's the truth. It get's a lot harder if it's a couple that we just don't feel any physical attraction to.
We might actually even play with such a couple at a party in the heat of the moment, but they're just not someone we would make plans to play with.
The art of saying "No thanks" is one of the toughest, and arguably most worthwhile, challenges in the lifestyle IMO. If you're interested in someone, especially if it's more than just a physical attraction, a no is, let's face it, a form of rejection. Devastating? Maybe not, but usually disappointing and not an ego boost.
I think it's a real talent to let someone down gently and minimize the disappointment. Speaks volumes about the kindness, compassion and maturity of the person or, particularly, couple, doing the passing. I think such people are worth studying, emulating, and admiring.
People who are devastated to be told no shouldn't be doing this. Or, really, anything where "no" is a normal response.
I sometimes get people trying to change my mind, which just reinforces that I've made the correct choice, but hardly anyone losing their shit. When they do, it's just pathetic.
necouple,
You are right, a rejection can be devastating. We rarely give a flat “no”. We try to be polite AND positive. Something such as “you are a sexy couple, you’ll definitely find some great hookups, but sorry, we are going to decline your offer”, usually works well, and keeps us from feeling like we are being assholes.
I think it's exceedingly helpful to learn to not care when someone is unable to accept the answer No with grace. If they can't hack it, just block them and don't give it another thought.
While we would never lash out at someone who respectfully declines our attention, we have noticed that "No thank you" and all variations regardless of how they are presented deliver a devastating blow to the ego judging by so many of the responses we get.
