Some single males are gross

I never book a room until we meet and agree. It's easy to book a hotel right from your phone. I've had fun with the tease of booking the room and letting the wife look at the hotel with me and also press the book now button. This makes it more intimate and involved rather than a process. A short walk is always funner than follow me in your car. Works great if you plan well enough like. being downtown if possible and knowing where the bars and hotels are.

I find it easier to meet someone near a hotel than saying meet me at my hotel lobby bar.

Bonus If your a traveler you can just use some of those points.

This is kind of outside the norm to start with. In other words, does one SM secure the room and expects the others to pitch in if there are 3-4 guys?

So if the SM that is supposed to secure the room is a no show, your screwed. Otherwise, one of the SMs winds up taking a chance and he could get screwed, in a good or a bad way ;-)

In some cases, the couple setting up the GB secures the room, but then if it's a bunch of no shows, they wind up taking the hit.

so there's also the risk of footing the bill for a hotel room for no shows.

I always reserve and pay for the hotel room. It seems like a common courtesy if a couple (or a single woman) is nice enough to agree to play.

Is that not the norm?

I agree with a lot of what has been shared in this thread. I'm amazed at the lack of class and decency some single guys lack. Have some respect, men!

I keep being tempted to actually create a group with/for a number of the SMs that we know that are polite, reliable, and can usually perform in a group setting (we all have our off days).

It is time consuming though and, for the immediate future, we can't really vet new guys at the moment. Also, other than LS parties we usually play at our house and for SMs, we'd want to meet them in a public setting first. This usually means a hotel and the risk that you're securing a room and a lot of SMs do tend to flake, so there's also the risk of footing the bill for a hotel room for no shows.

“ If one could create a group and limit the members to only those vetted as being proven reliable, that would be a big benefit for all involved. Once word got out, couples looking for polite reliable guys can see members of a group without having to join.”

Before moving to Kentucky, we lived in South Florida for a few years. We were members of, and helped organize events for a local gangbang group. We met once every couple months on average. It was organized through Kik which was a great platform for allowing members to share pictures, flirt, and get comfortable with each other before events.

We did have some guys (and couples) flake out, but their behavior was discussed in group chat. Those discussions, and the calling out of bad behavior, became an incentive for people to show up when planned. It quickly became clear as to who was reliable. I believe that the ability for new single guys to see the veteran guys gave them excellent behaviors to model.

At its height, we had to limit the number of women at some of the parties. The fact that we had such a well regarded core corps is what really made those parties a success

"A gangbang group appeals to couples with women that like multiple men and husbands that enjoy seeing their SO have a very good time."

A friend of mine belonged to a gangbang group that met twice a week for years, three women each time. The organizer allowed no flakes, even if it was a valid emergency, so I'm guessing the ones who participated were pretty reliable in all ways.

mayhem8 we mentioned once to a male friend that my wife would like to entertain a small polite group of 3-4. He said he had a few friends that would be interested and would set it up. We all agreed it would be a "surprise" when it happened and left it up to him. Twice he said he told the guys who had said they wanted to do it to come over. The first time was near a holiday and suddenly they had plans crop up unexpectedly (BTW it was not the holiday weekend just near it). The second time he said he told them to come over a couple suddenly had plans, and one canceled out via text as we were at our friend's house. After that he said "Well it looks like this is not going to happen because I'm not asking them again."

We agreed. We would love to find a group that is set up exactly as you describe. Heck simply selecting a number of participants and a date then letting someone else set it all up after that would be just fine for us. Of course we have also found a group or two in our area that say they are looking for women (single or part of a couple) for gangbangs but it seems from the description they have the whole "porn" style mentality and we are looking for a less "aggressive" encounter. I mean it is not every woman who wants all her holes filled and additional dicks for each hand at the same time but having another ready to go as the last one finished and repeat for a while letting the guys recuperate sounds like a lot of fun.

delval - Yes, reliability is huge. I might even say it's more important than performance. It doesn't really mattter how well someone performs if they never show.

Ditto on it being a lot of effort to vet people that will be reliable, but then again, that's what would make something like this such a hot commodity if one could organize such a thing.

If one could create a group and limit the members to only those vetted as being proven reliable, that would be a big benefit for all involved. Once word got out, couples looking for polite reliable guys can see members of a group without having to join.

goodgollymsmolly: It was meant to be silly. It does show that the attitude toward SM is due not only to the fact that a lot of single guys are just terrible at how they approach the lifestyle but also that supply and demand influence views. I do fine myself. I’m older. I’m not all about my dick but more about the amazing experience. I was married 20 years and would like to be in the lifestyle with a partner if I ever luck out in that area. So, no, rather than leave the lifestyle I can’t wait to get back to seeing my play friends once this COVID19 thing finally ends! As an aside, when I wandered into SLS a year ago you were extremely helpful to me so I should thank you again!

mayhem8: I participated in one mmfmm where a guy wanted to put something together to spoil his lovely wife. I agree the planning and effort it took this guy was unbelievable. We chatted later and he shared how unreliable people are. My very good FWB (who I was supposed to be at Hedo with this week) has taught me that as well. So many flakes.

delval - A quality SM can be in demand and call the shots to some degree. I know of at least one SM that will reject offers from couples if they have the text, "We'll reach out to you if interested." in their profile. Last I knew, he was not hurting for action (before the whole covid thing of course).

SMs alone are a "glut in the supply", as mentioned. I've said this before and it may not be someone's ideal thing, but a group of guys that are polite, can perform well with others as a group, and will actually show when plans are made would be in way more demand than a SM and possibly equal or in higher demand as couples.

A gangbang group appeals to couples with women that like multiple men and husbands that enjoy seeing their SO have a very good time. Though a niche, it's a larger market than being a SM alone. It's probably harder to find than SFs. There is nothing stopping anyone from forming such a group and it opens the door to network opportunities you may not see as a SM alone.

If couples were to be able to contact someone and arrange a GB and basically select the guys that attend, that would be huge. Since people like variety, ones not selected one time may well be selected for other times and it gives all of the guys more opportunity to network and potentially be the +1 for a couple or even a SF, if that is more their thing.

When life gives you lemons....

"It's just a massive stretch into an abyss of dumb."

"How many of you are annoyed at the couple and how many of you are saying WTF is wrong with this SM? Be honest, at least to yourselves, about how you would really react."

I'm as fond of logic pretzels and thought experiments as anyone, but this isn't either of those things. It's just a massive stretch into an abyss of dumb.

For any of that to happen, couples looking for single men would need to be in the vast majority and single men would need to be a scarce and highly valued group. Neither of those things are true.

What is true is that the largest group is single and male, next are couples, a much smaller subset of those are open to single men, and then, smallest of all, the group comprised of single women.

So, a very large group (single men) looking in two much smaller component groups means they're a glut on the market. And since many single men do not, as my grandmother used to say, know their ass from their elbows, as a group they're further devalued.

If the reality of not being in demand bothers you, leave the lifestyle in favor of vanilla dating, where at least there is something approaching parity.

In the meantime, if the clamoring of couples wanting attention ever starts to bother a single guy, he's always welcome to say he'll reach out if interested.

delvalleyguy that is not going to happen because what single guys complain about is being blocked, no replies, issues finding anyone, etc. Usually when they do it is found out they are rude, have no pictures, a bad profile, or some other obvious thing causing it. Then when people attempt to help them by pointing it out they get even more rude. Of course then you have some who come on the forums and start out a reply saying "Perhaps you should not exclude married men" as happened down this thread. Apparently some "single" men think cheating is okay and chastise others for not wanting to assist them in that.

Basically single men need to be at the top of their game and respectful of what couples or single women put in their profile. Sadly this does not happen. Just the other day we were contacted by a single male who lives 299 miles from us. We state we are looking for no one over 50 miles away. He also did not use the best approach with a first contact message but it was not horrible. He got a thanks but no thanks due to distance which he was respectful and said thanks for the reply unlike most which results in a block after the rude reply. Perhaps had he been closer we may have continued the conversation versus the no thanks reply at first and may have even reconsidered after the polite response. Today we get one that said simply "hi" then the second message was that auto generated asking to private picture access. He got a block without a look at his profile past the block button especially considering his picture was Gumby. I also need to add here that before we reply to someone who actually makes the effort to do things the right way we also do a search on the forum for posts by them. We have found where one guy seemed okay until we saw some of the stuff he had said on the forums. Keep in mind as a single male you will be put under a microscope as it were before it gets beyond the first couple messages and long before a meeting. Why well because of the behaviors I describe in what seems like the majority of the "single" male population in the lifestyle and overwhelming numbers of "single" males in the lifestyle versus those actually looking for one so people can be very choosy.

How many of you are annoyed at the couple and how many of you are saying WTF is wrong with this SM? Be honest, at least to yourselves, about how you would really react

Yup. I’d be thinking “WTF is wrong with that single guy”.

The reason for my reaction would not be because I think the guys reaction is objectionable, but rather because it would be so far outside the norm.

If couples were getting upset because one single guy a year dared to send an unwelcome email, I’d say that the couples were over reacting.
The fact is that couples get unwelcome emails weekly from single guys who think that they will somehow be the one select guy to break through. While one rude act is objectionable, the shear volume of rude acts is exasperating.

I'll let it go. There's a lot of insults thrown at single males in general in the lifestyle along with implications we are somehow less than. Probably that's what triggered me. Before I move on though I'd like everyone to think of the following scenario:

A SM has a profile up where he says I'll reach out if I'm interested. He then comes on the forums to complain about couples who have the nerve to reach out to him because they liked his profile. How many of you are annoyed at the couple and how many of you are saying WTF is wrong with this SM? Be honest, at least to yourselves, about how you would really react.

ICE - On the "ABSOLUTELY NEVER said to a single female..."

We have gotten offers and (politely) turned down SFs that wanted to play with a couple, and I gave them exactly the same reason and wording as SMs reaching out to us. That is, we BOTH like to play and enjoy seeing each other do so with others, so a single of any kind is not as much fun for either of us. If they had an SM that they could bring along we'd be up for it, but otherwise we'd only really be interested if we met at a LS party where we both had other options.

We're also one of those rare couples that are not looking for SFs (Mrs isn't really into women), so that message to SFs is probably rarer than we are as a couple. We maybe get at least 100 offers from SMs for every one we get from SFs, so there's that aspect of it too.

"They say in their tag line that single guys should not contact them. They would reach out. However, this lifestyle is not for meek men waiting for their message tab to show a little red circle. As Gretzky said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. He took a shot and missed."

Yeah, not the best analogy, because the goal stayed the same size each time for Gretzky. However great he was, he'd know he couldn't get a basketball into a pinhole. This dude you're defending didn't take a shot and miss. He decided what the couple asked for didn't fucking matter.

"ABSOLUTELY NEVER said to a single female"

Well, there are fewer of us and we don't swarm. Hell, based on years of close observation, most of us confine ourselves to being receptive and demonstrating availability, so it's rare anyone has to say no multiple times to the same woman. Plus, the number of couples looking for single women as well as couples is much greater than those looking for single men and certainly larger than the number of available single women. Supply problems don't really lend themselves to solutions that further limit the supply.

”this lifestyle is not for meek men waiting for their message tab to show a little red circle. As Gretzky said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. He took a shot and missed. And he moved on.“

Took a shot and missed, which Is perfectly ok if you believe that being rude is ok.

Post said to a single male

An awesome dude like you should be able to get a girlfriend, or two, and then come back into the lifestyle as a couple, not just another single guy showing up with his dick in his hand

ABSOLUTELY NEVER said to a single female

An awesome GAL like you should be able to get a BOYfriend, or two, and then come back into the lifestyle as a couple, not just another single GIRL showing up with her fingers in her pussy.

Rabbit - It doesn't matter what the race of the guy who wrote them was. They say in their tag line that single guys should not contact them. They would reach out. However, this lifestyle is not for meek men waiting for their message tab to show a little red circle. As Gretzky said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. He took a shot and missed. And he moved on.

"The way we saw it, we were not encouraging him to cheat on his woman. He was already doing it or..."

Interesting slant on it, but many would look at that as enabling someone to cheat. People do it all the time. It just comes down to a matter of if you want to play a part in it. I'm fairly sure telling the SO if he/she got caught that, "He/she was going to do it anyway." wouldn't help ;-)

Del- your reply to willy is ridiculous. If I had to guess a SM of color wrote them. They are very specific in their profile “no interracial” To them it doesn’t matter who you are. Only skin color matters.

Cuttin- if you’re talking about married men that are cheating I’m not surprised. I’ve noticed bi guys don’t seem to have much of a problem playing with cheaters. Reading the bi-make section taught me that.

~rabbit~

Del, sending a message is rude if they asked for none to be sent. It doesn't matter if it is well written or not.

We thought of them as solo men rather than single men.

I like your viewpoint, cuttin2dachase. As someone who was married for 20 years, I understand and respect the couple dynamic. I think that knowledge and my reliability help me to more easily make great connections.

funlyfriend- I thought willystn's post was saying he was rude for even messaging since their profile says "Single males, we will contact you if interested." If his message was rude then to hell with him. He deserves to get blocked.