Episode 129: Taming the Voices Inside My Head

Transcript

This podcast contains explicit language and content and is for mature audiences only. Hey you teenagers out there, if you're under 18, this show is more for your parents. So now that you have that mental picture stuck in your head, put some music on and get back to doing your homework. We are a longtime married couple who's decided to chronicle our personal adventures and share our sex positive discussions as we navigate our way through the swinging lifestyle. Care to join us? Hello, everyone. I'm Mr. Jones. And I'm Mrs.

jones and i'm mrs jones and i'm michelle with expansive connection and we all want to welcome you to episode 129 of the we got a thing podcast the thoughts or no the voices inside of our collective heads yeah thoughts are one thing when those voices start talking that's when it gets a little disconcerting a little bit yeah I'll see you next time.

inside of our collective heads yeah thoughts are one thing but when those voices start talking that's when it gets a little disconcerting a little bit yeah we want to welcome you back it's good to have uh our partnership with the expansive connection going strong and this is your month and this is a great a great topic uh this is this is talked about all the time so just like every other episode with you all we're we're hoping that you're just gonna tie this up in a nice little bow for us so what none of us will have this problem again that would be wonderful and um also it that doesn't actually like happen we we make them smaller sometimes our inner credit gets smaller and it's less powerful but uh yeah i don't know if i can get rid of it we can we can see where we go well the thought that comes to mind and voices inside my head is when we wake up at 2 or 2 30 or 3 o'clock in the morning and you're staring at the ceiling and you're just wide awake and you're like and you look at the clock and then you count how many hours it is until it's time to get up it's still dark outside and then all of a sudden here comes the train down the tracks and all these voices just kick up and you don't have anything else to do so you might as well go down these rabbit holes with those voices right no they're horrible because they're never like do you remember that wonderful kind loving thing you did three weeks ago let's just bask in that it's always like do you remember that embarrassing thing that happened in high school where you spilled all of your books everywhere and people were reading the journal that you decided to impromptly do yeah let's let's dwell on that for a little bit exactly it's it's never the ones that you're like i'd like to dwell here for a little bit it's like no no no all of the all the things that kind of give you like that Thank you.

for a little bit exactly it's never the ones that you're like i'd like to dwell here for a little bit it's like no no all of the all the things that kind of give you like that feverish embarrassment or oh i'm here again or i've got to write a list you know that's what pops up at 3 a.m yeah and then when you add non-monogamy on top of it that just gives you a whole nother encyclopedia of voices that are going to come at you both before you even get into it and and afterwards and i just remember the one of the first gatherings we went to just standing in a corner thinking why am i here you know no one's no one's paying attention to me um and i and I had because you were standing in a corner scowling well that's exactly right and that that's exactly right I was and certainly unapproachable by the look on my face and the fact that it was I was in a corner and it was dark and nobody could see us anyway um but it was it was very convincing to look around and see oh look at all those pretty people talking to each other and nobody's over here talking to me.

And I know why they're not talking to me. They're not talking to me because I'm this or I'm that or I'm not this or I'm not that. And then after a while, it kind of becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy until your wife tries to smack you out of it. Right, honey? Yeah, that's about's awesome i mean she was like you're awesome get out there show other people how awesome you are right i think like these negative thoughts can lead to self-doubt they heighten your inner critic um like was i good enough was i approachable was i making all the wrong dress like like uh body movements?

Do you ever find yourself being like, I want this person to come talk to me? And then you find yourself with your arms crossed. And you're like, okay, I look like a bodyguard. I probably need to loosen up a little bit. right and then you know we used the term well i think we didn't coin the term but that voice becomes a cock blocker, literally. And then we always have said people are attractive as a couple or not attractive as a couple.

So if I'm brooding in the corner, it's not a good look for her either, because then both of us look unapproachable and we become like our own cock block our own cock blockers and so the story the truth of the story is we're the ones okay in this case i was the one you know causing the issues but we were just we were we were losing right out of the gate we never even stood a chance yeah you can do that and it kind of sabotages the moment you start overthinking you're holding yourself back um and when you sit in your head for a while then you like that that output energy that you're trying to like reel other people in and be like hey come hang out with us for a little bit kind of dampens um and sometimes feel that yeah it's like you crossed this threshold and and like even if like the hottest couple in the whole place came up and started talking to us i think it would be really hard to recover and bounce back from that you know to kind of shake it off so to speak i know michelle you've talked about um the reason why one of the reasons reasons why we have you trained credible people on our podcast is because you teach us the fancy words that go along with the feelings that we have.

So I know that you mentioned cognitive distortions. Could you talk a little bit about that, what it means, what's going on in our head when we hear that term? Yeah, so cognitive distortions, those are, it's like a fancy therapy word for just negative thought patterns. Those are basically inaccurate or irrational thought patterns that can lead to negative emotions and behaviors.

They are often automatic and subconscious, and they come from like early life experiences personal beliefs and values and sometimes our own maladaptive coping mechanisms and so it kind of like goes into our negative thought pattern so all those contribute to that and the term that i caught at the tail end of that It was a pattern because if we get into that pattern, it's not just a single occurrence or an instance it it happens over and over and then before we know it we have a whole body of evidence stacked against us because time after time that's the way that we think so sometimes i guess you know i think sometimes when we're we're at these events and we're trying to meet people so you know what I heard you say is it can go it can go back to like childhood so to speak so it could be like my 11 year old self not knowing what lunch table to sit at right yeah it's it's that same feeling absolutely I think sometimes and I've had people who I've coached come in and talk about like oh my gosh I felt like I was in back in the high school cafeteria and I didn't know where to sit or where the cool kids were with the rules or of like hanging out with other people in the lifestyle like whether it's on like house parties or hotel takeovers and just that kind of nervous new person energy yeah and and the result is the same whether it was the lunch table or whether it was the swinger party it's like we're losers like look at the look at the cool people over there we're never what we're never going to be good at this and why do the joneses make this sound so simple?

Although I don't think we do. No, I've definitely heard people say that they're like, they just kind of worked it out. Like it kind of like was a bump in the road and then they just smoothed it out. And we're over here like doggy paddling in the middle of the ocean. And I'm like, no, we all doggy, Paddle. Yeah, that's interesting. It's interesting because I think people do pick up mostly on the positive stories and sometimes maybe either disregard the negative stories. I don't know why people think we do everything right because I think we've proven over and over again that we don't.

Well, I think one thing we're pretty good at is we're pretty good at laughing at ourselves. Like we know that sometimes we're ridiculously bad at things. So maybe it comes off, you know, less negative. I don't know. But no, we screw up with the best of them. Yeah. So this is where you're going to step in for the first time, Miche. And how do we get out of this rut? Either when we're laying in bed or we're standing in the corner at the party or we're standing in the cafeteria, what are some of the things that we can do to disrupt that thought pattern?

Yeah, we're definitely going to try challenging it. But first you got to figure out kind of what is your pattern, right? So I'll list some that most of us kind of have a colloquial understanding of. So then we have like... what is your pattern, right? So I'll list some that most of us kind of have a colloquial understanding of. So then we have like all or nothing thinking, which is also black and white thinking. You have the extremes and absolute thoughts.

So it's like, there's no gray, there's no like middle ground, like either I'm going to go in and I'm going to suck really bad at like making friends and new acquaintances, or I'm'm gonna like be the bell of the ball um you can over generalize um that's kind of like it's not just drawing conclusions about things it's like it's when you use the all or nothing not all or nothing sorry but sorry, but the always and never. So we're always going to not have people to talk to, or we're never going to be able to do this.

And so when you start getting into that pattern, it becomes more of that self-fulfilling prophecy. And then catastrophizing is a lot like exaggerating everything. So it's the worst case scenario that could possibly happen.

So those are some of the patterns that are kind of general i myself often engage in mind reading so i'm just imagining i know exactly what you're thinking at all times and i'm just we haven't had a conversation i know and i'm just gonna go about my day see i was gonna i was i was gonna ask you michelle it's funny that you said that because i was gonna say well as somebody who is on the other side of the couch telling people how that they should recognize these things it's then it's easier for you to avoid them yourselves then right no no i have to challenge myself everyone has them there's no way to just be like and i wish it was i was like i wish that someone could give me this like wonderful thing where it's like you don't have to engage in any of these thought patterns and just go about your day and while you're at it here's a spritz of no anxiety um that's not the real world and um and you know we all have things that kind of pop up whether that is from childhood childhood, whether that is from like life experiences, you know, it's part of what makes this us.

Okay. But you can challenge them. Okay. So you challenge them with truth and mantras.

So let's say, so you can replace some of these distorted thoughts with truthful evidence right so like let's say for example like you uh see your partner like really getting along with another person right and so you immediately get triggered because maybe this person is the complete opposite of you and also like lovely and delightful and you're like spiraling this person's super similar to your partner um their conversations are fruitless they don't have kids and laundry to go home to so maybe they will like leave me after all of this worst case scenario right i just catastrophize um what i can do is ask myself whoa like, like, okay, maybe I'm sweating a little bit.

My heart beats racing. You know, I can challenge that with opposite. Like two nights ago, we just ordered a huge pizza, ate on the floor, had really great sex and cuddled for half an hour. I don't really think that that exists right now. Like maybe what I'll do is put a pen in it. Let's call the mantra a pen in it. We're gonna put a pen in that, right? And I can talk to my partner about this afterwards or bring up that I had this spiral fear.

But if I can find truths to the contrary of that negative thought that just encompassed my whole body, maybe, maybe I can challenge that with something that's a little different and then have more evidence to start backing that up instead of sitting in the body mind spiral of the thought that just decided to develop in my head yeah we had an email not too long ago where a gentleman described um that they've gotten along with this couple they went out with them they had played with them, four-way connection, everything was going great.

And then he said, I did a little bit of research and I looked at his profile on LinkedIn and then I remembered, oh no, when somebody visits your profile, you know they do. And then coincidentally after that, the couple messaged them back and went radio silent. And he was convinced that it was because he looked at his LinkedIn profile and I need to apologize for that. I'm sure this is what was going on. And as I'm reading all of this and I'm seeing him spiral down this hole, I'm thinking it probably has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It's funny how when we're on one side of it, we think the worst, but oftentimes we've been on the side of it where guess what? Something legitimate just came up and we need to let them know that we had a death in the family or that we're going through something.

it when we're on the side of experiencing that it it doesn't cross our minds that the other person could be making stuff up it's really interesting how difficult it is sometimes to put ourselves in that truthful space like you know there's probably 99 other things that it could be but i tend to cling to the one that is the absolute worst. Yeah. Well, it's because your brain's trying to keep you safe, right? Your brain's like, oh, there's a threat. Let's just make everything safe. So worst case scenario, let's plan for that one. I don't know if anybody has seen Inside Out 2.

Am I telling on myself really quickly? Because I love these movies.

And I will be the-grown adult that will go see it every time by myself because the therapist inside of me is like they do a brilliant job and so like they have like a scene in this cartoon um where anxiety is driving the boat right like she's got she's got all of the like the command center for the brain and she is just hitting all the buttons and so this poor girl is like drenched in like fear-based behaviors and thought patterns and it's just your brain and your body's way of trying to keep you safe when it jumps to that like right spiral of worst case scenario right so how hard is it i you know i know that you say replace these thoughts with truths but is there a i think you touched on something when you said uh maybe your breathing gets a little bit your heart rate goes up a little bit you know how can you can kind of sense so there's physiological things that may be a physical trigger that you need to stop uh thinking a certain way but are there any other things besides just saying you know what michelle said we need to stop thinking that way and start thinking this way but how do we how do we recognize you know that we're even in this behavior so that we can stop and and go to those truths or i mean it's fortunate that we have a partner and and my partner is very good at at bringing these things up but like for someone like yourself who doesn't or not regularly you're your own i mean you're on your own right i mean how do we figure that out yeah i think it is definitely paying attention to your body you might like, like armpits might start sweating a little bit or like time sometimes slows down and you hone in on one thing.

It's like that slow motion. Like, did he just hold her hand? You know, like, you know, did they cuddle too close? And it's going a little slower. Or maybe it's paying attention to maybe you're actually holding your breath. Some people are breath holders in these spaces. a little slower. Um, maybe it's, um, it's, it's paying attention to maybe you, maybe you're actually holding your breath. Some people are breath holders in these spaces. Um, or you get tense. I definitely get tense in my knees.

And so like, if I start walking and I'm like, whoa, my kneecaps feel a little funny and it's not old age before y'all start putting me in there. It's just as that's where I hold all of my attention. And so maybe just ask. before y'all start putting me in there. It's just that that's where I hold all of my tension. And so maybe just asking your body, oh my gosh, like feel that. I feel that tension holding. I feel myself holding my breath. I feel myself slow motion honing in on one body movement and replaying it in my head. Let me take care of myself for a minute.

What do I need in this moment to regulate my breathing, to calm my heart heart rate to not feel like a sweaty mess and then whatever that is so that you can then have that conversation or to begin to challenge that thought pattern that's kind of spiraling in your head let's do that yeah and one of the things that I think we do is um it just happened not too long ago, going back to middle school. Remember in middle school when somebody would come up to you and say, so-and-so likes you? Because so-and-so is not going to tell you, they would send their messenger.

But it always felt good that, wow, somebody likes me. So we recently met another couple. And the gentleman pulled me aside. And he said, your wife is just absolutely gorgeous and you know i hope i hope she understands how beautiful she is and really like to get to know her but he didn't say that to her but i did i pulled her aside and i said look this guy is really he's really fascinated. He thinks you're beautiful. And I think hopefully that helped a little bit for Mrs.

Jones to know, oh, well, if he feels that way, you know, it's a little bit easier for her maybe to think or believe that narrative because it came from a third person. Yeah, it worked for me. It gave me confidence to, uh you know go up and talk to him that's you know that was it really took a lot of the pressure off of me so i i like that and i'm not a very assertive person so that that really helped that you know i don't know if he sensed that in me or or what but that was very helpful because you and I are kind of out of practice right now.

So we need all the help we can get, but, but in a way, you know, it, it kind of, um, it, it's bringing us back full circle because yeah, we've been doing this, you know, 10 years or so, but, but because we've taken such a long break, you know, I, I think we're starting to have some of those same feelings that we had 10 years ago. So these voices in, in our heads are, are alive and well. Okay. So I'll jump in the bandwagon of that.

I think when we first started the call and we like checked in a little bit, I was talking about body image stuff and stuff and um like I've always kind of been like a little heavier so I lost like some weight due to like health stuff and so I lost a couple of pounds and so I was like I don't I don't recognize this body in the mirror what is this right and so for the first time um I am like trying to figure out how to navigate the way that my body looks with other people when I was like this is what I used to look like and this is what I look like now and then I'm adding like age to that and so my experience of myself feels different than it did what I started in the lifestyle.

And so trying to like manage that with myself and then not project that onto other people, but like remain in my own confidence. So I love the fact that like he came over and was confidently like, I think Mrs. Jones is hot. I'm here for it, you know? And then you were able to receive that.

you noticed that you had confidence and noticed that like that was a that was something he wanted to be drawn into and so it's so important to be able to let go of these negative thought patterns so that we can exist and be grounded where we're at so that people will want to approach us and that we feel approachable and and not projecting like our own shit everywhere well i have to say that you look fabulous but you also need to take into mind that i knew you a year or two years ago and i still see you as the same person so and the and the other thing michelle is and i and you just mentioned this about let's just say a year ago i was 20 pounds heavier or 20 pounds lighter the person that is in front of me at this moment that i'm meeting for the very first time has no clue about what i looked like yesterday or what i'm gonna look like tomorrow uh but we carry it with us we carry that oh my gosh i'm five pounds heavier no one's gonna but there's somebody right in front of you that's attracted to you but we can't get past the fact that that we're different exactly yeah i couldn't have said that better that's so true it's all internal and it's like who wants to stay in that soup let's like get out of there um so slowly whether it's like replacing those thoughts with truths like i think people are going to be awesomely attracted to me and to anybody else because confidence and the fact that you have a great personality in addition to all those other things right those are truths i can have a mantra for that that i repeat to myself until the way i actually feel and what i'm thinking start to align um and so that applies for like yourself with your partner that applies to yourself with other people that you're engaging with um whether that's in conversations or interactions just making sure that that the truth is like you can't you can't like deny the truth right and your body feels that too you can't really like you can lie to yourself but it's just pushing stuff down right so when you challenge the negative thoughts with the truth your body feels that too and that's that's important i'm sorry i'm gonna pick on this jones for a minute because we were both naked together recently and we had a wonderful time together and then when we got finished honey you said i noticed when i'm in this position and i look down i said look look at at my arm right here.

And I'm like, okay, well, I was looking at you, it never crossed my mind. I know, it's the exact same thing. I mean, just, you know, my skin is changing as I'm aging and I just like, I don't know. I looked at my arm and then I was like obsessed with that. That's all I could see when I looked at myself. you know, and, and I just, like, I don't know. I looked at my arm, and then I was, like, obsessed with that. That's all I could see when I looked at myself, you know, and it's ridiculous, and there's nothing I can do about it. It's just strictly age.

Yeah, so we've talked about age and body image a lot, and we've also mentioned school, high school, how easy it is to go to be 13 or 15 years old again. So easy. I don't know. And we've also mentioned school, high school, how easy it is to go to be 13 or 15 years old again. So easy. And then the good old comparing ourselves to other people, especially now, you know, this is our reality is we're in our 60s.

And, you know, there's a lot more people in the lifestyle younger than us than older than us and so we're usually with people a lot of times with people that are younger and that comparison is just right there in front of you so it's hard to disregard that especially if one of us is thinking if I'm looking across the bed and seeing her with a younger, and I'm going, oh, he's more this than me. He's less that than me.

And then I start, before I know it, I've lost the attention that I was paying on my side of the bed because I'm comparing myself to him because they're having a good old time over there. Well, you know know there's that quote uh comparison is the thief of joy and i think a lot of people have quoted it but i think it goes back to president teddy roosevelt he's he said that and you know i think um it it's just so sad when you focus on the the attributes of someone else that you wish you had because then you're discounting all of the good attributes that other people see in you.

It's like you're stuffing all those in a closet just like I have straight hair. I have a friend who has curly hair and her hair is so gorgeous or I have a friend that has a really curvy body and I have a straight body and, and I love her curves. And, you know, I could, I could lose a ton of weight and still be built like a boy. You know, I'm just, I'm straight up and down. So I, you know, that comparison just can eat you alive and it kind of takes all the fun out of it. And it also, So, you know, I try to be careful about those types of comments, like the self-deprecating comments.

They're funny when you're around really good friends who love you warts and all, right? But I think sometimes people will be a little too self-deprecating all the time.

And then you just want to say stop you know you're awesome you don't have to like you don't have to like knock yourself down even though they're trying to be funny about it or maybe they are being funny about it it's still like oh my gosh give yourself some credit oh I totally agree because you're like I don't see what you're saying I think and that's part of like the thought the negative thought patterns right is it's like i'm caught up in my own internal dialogue my own internal narrative and it doesn't mean that what i'm seeing and feeling from my perspective is necessarily what everybody else is experiencing so i'm like like you know like giving away cheat codes if i'm like just spewing it all out all over the place like it's working opposite of what i actually want which is to bring people closer to me whether that's through friendship or more than just that you know like that's it's it's counterproductive yes yeah so the the comparing ourselves um you know jealousy is another thing that we've talked about that a lot but it's but it's another one of those things that consumes us and when those green monster thoughts are in our heads as well and especially in this sharing or maybe it's just maybe it's really not jealousy maybe it's envy i wish i had her like you were saying i wish i had her curbs or i wish i had his girth or whatever it is that i'm going to throw out there as a guy um and maybe it's not jealousy it's just looking across and all of a sudden being not satisfied with something that i've had my whole life that's been perfectly fine until i looked at somebody else and then in a second my my thoughts start to spiral because i start to talk to myself yeah so i um sometimes i do that with people who look really really fit like they they live in the gym a little bit you know and um every now and then i'd be like ah because i i think we went to hito with um naughty gym and they had some serious like like gym people in there and i was like man gosh that's a great body right and then my inner dialogue now because i've i've trained her a little bit around this uh my body image thing she's like are you going to spend that much time in the gym and i'm like no I am not so let's appreciate that body but this is not happening so we're going to be very happy with the body that we have because I'm not doing it but yeah I love the fact that they are they have gorgeous bodies but that's my my dose of truth would be like are we going to do the gym thing no no we are not so we are going to be content with where we're at um but that comparison of like man i wish i could be like that because the grass is greener on the other side or i wish i had that or maybe maybe my partner might find that the grass is greener on the other side like those jealousies and insecurities can be triggered when, like, you see your partner attracted to someone else.

That trigger can, like, help to engage those automatic subconscious negative thoughts, right, that continue to spiral that pattern in your head. um and so you know it you know it gets me more than anything um when we're talking about when you know, it gets me more than anything. Um, when we're talking about when, you know, when your partner meets someone and it is attracted to someone else, like it can be the hottest girl in the room. And if Mr.

Jones is attracted to her, I'm like, good for him, especially, you know, if it's reciprocal, where I, where the voices start getting in my head is when he's attracted to someone's personality because it's usually somebody like really outgoing and funny and because i'm i'm pretty quiet and reserved so and i and i just i'm just not outgoing and funny you know i'm i don't like to be the center of attention. So when he's attracted to somebody like that, that really messes with me because I just can't compete with it. It wouldn't be authentic. Right.

So that's when the voices are like, man, you're really boring. Like, you're just not funny. And it, it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I'll be listening to her just to her just going see and and you're musical and i'm not musical and she's musical and she's funny and i'm not funny and you're funny and she's funny and you're sarcastic and she's witty and and this has been a sunday morning conversation yes and then i just kind of start smiling which a lot of times doesn't make anything better but But I can't help myself. I'm like, yeah, honey, but you're you. Don't forget. I chose you.

Yeah, you know what? That person is like that. But if we live together, oh, it would just drive me crazy. Right? Right? It's like, you know, you want dessert. But like all the time, I want some actual, I want a meal. I want a whole meal. I like that. That's a good one. Also, Mrs. Jones, I've heard you with the microphone in front of a crowd, and you are quite funny. Oh, well, thank you. Well, there you go. I have my moments. Well, I have to start, and then what I have to do is I have to say, well, you know, she is this, but, you know, she's that.

And then I have to start pointing out some very human things about other people. And then you're like, are you talking me when you're talking me off the ledge? Yeah. Then you're like, well, yeah, that's true. You'll say, yeah, I am a good cook or yeah, I am good at this. And, and so I've learned that you're going to pick out the things that, that the other woman and I have in common, but you tend to disregard the things about that person that you know would just drive me absolutely bonkers because you know me so well. True.

So it sounds like there might be like some distorted perceptions around other people that Mr. Jones helps to like bring back down to earth. And then you all are talking about the jealousy and the envy which is beautiful it's so important um and this to have like safe spaces open authentic spaces to begin to talk about some of the other like thoughts that float around in your head i am a firm believer that like the crazy thoughts need to be let out on the outside. Like, we do not keep them all the way in, right?

Because the things that get, like, percolated and put underneath a rug or shoved down in a corner grow. When you allow them to be seen and aired out and loved on by the people around you, they lose their sting. Yeah, you know, it's funny you brought that up, Miche, because like that by nature like i'm very very perceptive and sensitive to when mrs jones is not in the best mindset and my first thing my first thought is what did i do or what do i need to do when and when in fact at the end of the day when we have a a talk, she was like, well, I was on the phone with this guy.

I was having a meeting and he wasn't getting what I was saying and I got frustrated. And so it had nothing at all to do with me.

So I have to fight against my natural instinct to be the person who either caused it or needs to fix it without, like you said and if i don't if we if one of us doesn't let that information out then that voice just gets louder and louder and then if it happens the next day it just compounds on top of that so i think a lot of it in my mind is i have to stop myself from assuming the responsibility for whatever it is that she's you know experiencing because most of the well a lot of the times i'm not gonna say most of the times it's not me a lot of the times it's not me i caught myself that's awesome yeah i think like you've got a like because it sounds like you do a little bit of white what i'm doing a little bit mr jones which is like uh mind reading like i'm just assuming that the problem is me and then it's my job to fix it because if i can fix it and it's my problem and i cause it then part of it's in my control and then i can get back to the homeostasis that i like in my relationship um but i still have through my high, high alert, making sure I'm not looking at everything super intensely, um, and checking my perception of what's happening.

Because like you said, my perception is, it's my fault. But once we've talked about it, we've aired it out, then my perception gets to change. Um, so having those safe spaces and that built in, like we have a history of airinging these grievances of talking about it of like helping each other come down from the ledge it's like that's important so it's needed yeah and well i think what we're getting into this is this opposites attract and i want to i want to toss this out there to see what you ladies think about this because because Mrs.

Jones and I will talk, and we were just talking to my family the other day, honey, and you said, well, Mr. Jones is the big picture thinker. He's the visionary. He just says, make it so, and he thinks it can happen. And a lot of times he's right. And I'm the detail person.

I'm the ledger keeper i'm the finance person i'm my mind goes to how are we going to do this and so you would you always say i jump right into the weeds yeah she jumps right into the weeds let's stay above the weeds until we get to discuss the concept because if the concept is not good we're not even going to go to the weeds so anyway we talk about how opposite we use that word opposite we are then what we were just talking about is we'll meet another couple where the woman is got a sense of humor or or she's very sarcastic and then all of a sudden we're that's the opposite of what you are right jones right and so but but it's also that i think we when we have something in common, I could pick out things about her that I have an opposite interest in as well.

I think we dwell on the negative things or those main differences, and we use the word opposite, but really it might be four out of the 10 things I oppose you on, but six of i think we're very like-minded on a lot of things so it's really hard to talk about that opposite in a binary way it's either it's because it's not just black or white or or this or that well i think what what binds us together is that we have the same value system and we have the same goal at the end of the day. It's just you and I approach things so differently.

So I think what I always find intriguing, because I do the exact same thing. I mean, I've been quiet and I've been talking about how Mr. Jones does this and that with other women, but I am very attracted to men that have the same personality as me because they get me. Like they totally get me and I can talk to them for forever. And, and then, you know, the more I talk to them, the sexier they get. And the next thing I, you know, I just want to jump in bed with them.

Like, but would we be able to like live life together and run household together no like i would kick him out by like the third day like it just would not work but but i love talking to people that that are very similar to me in personality having sex with them well yeah they're fun to have sex with yeah yeah well i love that that you all are able to like hold space for both things like that we are opposite yet we strengthen each other and it's okay if our partner finds someone very similar to them I have to be honest though like the first time I think I saw that happen in front of me I was like I'm not actually what you want you've been lying to me all this time right um yeah um and so and so and but recognizing that there is a really big difference between like this person is tantalizing and this is fun but this is not my life person yeah and it also when it comes down to it it sex.

The way we like sex can be totally opposite of our partner, too, because Mrs. Jones is very soft and sensual and slow moving for the most part. you know it's sensual it's it it's connected you know it's very romantic and sexual and then but we've i've been with other women who are just very demonstrative and say, this is what I want, you know, or can you do that harder? Or, or there's dirty talk, you know, and that's not the way that Mrs. Jones is. And so, I mean, I enjoy that, but it, but it doesn't mean that that's going to replace what I have.

So in all of the physical characteristics about being opposite or the same, the personality being opposite or the same, it's also when you get into bed and you, because you can't predict how people are, isn't it interesting how the most soft-spoken person all of a sudden in bed turns into a very dominant, you know, take charge sort of a person. It's really interesting to be a part of. And then how you deal with all of that. Well, that's the thing. Like all these hormones are raging.

And then I look over and I see this woman like being like really like assertive and taking charge of the situation, which I normally don't do. And then I'm like, oh my God, like I can't do that. Like, is he going to expect me to do that? Because I can't do that. And like, oh my gosh, I'm just in awe. And I'm not thinking poorly of this woman. I'm like, oh my God, look at her. She's amazing. You know, and it's scary because I immediately compare myself and say, whew, I don't think I'm going to be able to do that again. You know? I think that's spot on. Yeah.

I mean, it's just, it's hard to tell yourself, I don't need to be that way.

Or that's like, or maybe your tastes have changed and this is what you actually want all the time and they're like no I want you like you you and yourself that's exactly what I want it's a both and right it doesn't have to be one or the other and I think a lot of times like society wise culture wise when it comes to relationships the messages we normally get are that it is black and white right um and like okay we'll take the bachelor right like the guy dates 50 million women and then all of a sudden at the end he's supposed to narrow it down to just like one person right it's very upset distraught it's a both and like you can also be attracted to a couple of people at the same time and that's okay um and so it it doesn't mean that it necessarily changes the core relationship it's just there's more choices you ever think about i'll speak to both of you like if we're telling ourselves a story in our head and it's the wrong story and we didn't correct it did you ever think how many missed opportunities that there might have been had we engaged if we would have only engaged or if we would have showed up or if we would have done this, if I hadn't have stood in the corner, um, you know, what could have happened?

It's hard. I mean, that, those are the stories that I think we need to tell each other too, is that, you know, if, if I would have only done this, then what if we connected and what if we did this and maybe it led to that? So I just think that there's going to probably be missed opportunities for all of us. But how do we navigate that and get through the insecurity so that we can then get some Thank you.

ones in the past you can gather the information and the data from them and move forward but that's all that it has to tell you really is like data to say like this didn't work or the next time this happens I want to practice saying yes more or doing the opposite of what I really want to do what I really want to do is sit down on this couch and become a wallflower because that sounds safe. I'm going to practice putting myself out there and trying to engage in more conversation and recognize that yes, sometimes rejection is part of this. Yes, sometimes a no is part of this. And so is a yes.

A yes is also part of this. And interest and intrigue is also part of this. And practice is important. Sometimes we haven't hit on another person in a couple of years. Or we've played with the same two couples for a very long time.

And so we're trying something new and that that can feel scary a mantra that I personally have that I love and tell everybody that they should adopt every now and then is like I've never been here before I've never been in this situation I've never been with these people I've never been in this exact same time and space before and I'm gonna give myself a lot of grace and I'm gonna try to do the thing that gets me closer to my goal yeah and that's a good one yeah and i think that when you said goal that made me think you know in this in this world of ethical non-monogamy there are so many different goals there are so many different games going on on the same playing field.

Like for example, let's say you go to a house party or a hotel takeover. There are going to be couples there whose goal is to have sex with somebody they haven't met. There's going to be couples there whose goal is to connect with people that they've met before. There's people there that are going to be looking for a single guy. There's couples there that just are there for the first time and want to try to meet new people. We have to play our own game. We have to set our own goals.

And so if I'm standing in the corner at a meet and greet, maybe my perception shouldn't be everybody else here is trying to have sex. I'm the only one over here that wants to do this. And I think the only way around that is just set your goal. My goal is to meet somebody. My goal is to introduce myself to somebody or let's meet two couples. Let's not even think anything further than that because the way that we engage in the lifestyle, that's going to have to happen before it leads to anything else.

So I think we're kind of guilty of assuming the goal is the ultimate, which is having sex with somebody else. And that's not the case. And you can't let other people determine what your goals are you kind of have to do that you know yourself and that also kind of takes a lot of the pressure off right when I have set my own goal and figured out what I want to do versus like whatever happens or assuming that I know what everybody else wants and then I feel like I have an expectation I'm supposed to meet down the line, that's a lot of pressure.

Most people, I'm assuming, are doing this because it's fun. So if we can take off that extra expectation or extra pressure we're perceiving is needed from us, you can have way more fun. And you get to pick your own story.

how do you want to engage in this um but I was thinking a little bit when you were talking about how this kind of ties into like mixed messaging because I do feel like a lot of people do try and the response that they feel like they get when they try with other people is a mixed signal right because and a lot of people if you're if you're going to introduce yourself to a couple and their goal is to look i got a babysitter we got two hours we need to meet somebody we need to get down to it and then you're not that way and then that you go your separate ways i think some people think that they failed i'm like you didn't fail you you eliminated a couple that now go talk to another couple you know now go go meet somebody else because if you don't i think we're into this trap of making up a story oh they didn't want to be with us because of this therefore nobody's going to want to be with us because of that i don't even know why we're going to these parties if everybody's going to be like that if we if't change our goal and then when you talk about that and your partner's going well no we're not going to change our goal then before you know it the two of you are in disagreement no we've never done that i i am kind of struggling with that right now this is like true confessions and we haven't even really, well, we've kind of talked about it, but not really.

Um, when we go to events now, we're not playing with other people at this point in time. And I feel like I'm in the way, like, I don't want to, I'm assuming everybody has a goal of hooking up that night. And if they're going to spend time talking to me, that isn't going to happen. Not right now. And I feel like I'm wasting their time and I feel like I'm in the way. So that is my own voice in my head, like trying to assume everybody else.

Not that people want to have sex with us, but I think they probably trying to hook up with other people and you know if they hang out with us are they feeling sorry for us you know and somebody's got to babysit mr and mrs jones i you know i don't know like i can really wallow in that and we had this actually we had this conversation before we went on the cruise yes we did and i said honey these people are adults if i'm not going to make decisions for them i'm going to go have a good time and if they have other plans and they want to do something i they're going to need to go do that i'm not going to tie anybody up and you know so we did have that conversation about right but that voice was still in my head yeah i know well you let it out though we talked about it yeah that ahead of time yeah yeah so you're worried that people will have feel like they have missed opportunities with you yes okay okay um well i think that kind of goes back to like letting people be autonomous for their own goals, right?

Like I. well I think that kind of goes back to like letting people be autonomous for their own goals right like I don't you don't actually know what their goal is maybe their goal was just to see you guys who knows like you guys are hot and awesome and we just want to hang out with you all maybe they heard about what was happening on the show and thought you guys were safe yeah yeah and I actually think that think that that does happen. Yeah. But my mistake is assuming that everybody has a goal. And I assume I know what their goal is, right? And it's up to them to make their own decisions.

Welcome to the Mind Reading Club. So if somebody's out there scheming, you can pretend like you're not playing with people and then they'll let their guard down and they think they're just getting to know you, but then you spin. You're sounding pretty devious right now. Well, that's the whole thing about not wearing a wedding ring, right? I'm not going to wear it. Okay, I'm probably should stop talking now.

It's like twirling whiskers on the side, like're coming out waiting for the evil laugh to come out so are we ready to start talking about some key takeaways and yeah tips final tips to how to combat our insecurities absolutely um so i think like the main things i want to just kind of reiterate are that insecurities are natural everyone has them um but they shouldn't define our relationships our personal ones or the ones we make with new people um and that we got to talk about them openly create safe spaces to to just let them fly a little bit to be able to say, hey, you want to help challenge these thoughts with me because this is what's happening in my head.

So just don't let them hold you back from engaging in the world the way that you want to. Yeah, I tell people all the time because people find our podcast, you know, one of the bad things about our podcast is that people think it's such a good resource that they want to listen to 129 of them before they do anything and i said no you actually have to you know you can do all the research that you want to but you've got to put it in action uh and especially if you've got voices in your head that are already telling you what the end of the story is before you even get out there and try.

And just because you've had one or two experiences doesn't mean they're all going to be that way. So you always have to get back out there and experience more. Absolutely. Like, I think that kind of goes into, like, that pressure to, like, perform a little bit.

Um, and bit um and like we put this pressure on ourselves and we just kind of assume that other people will also put those pressures on us as well and it's like just let it all go it's okay it doesn't have to exactly end up that way um and you're actually probably happier when you take it off just like take off all of that pressure and you'll, you'll be a lot happier. Um, and so if you're like, I feel insecure, so everybody else must also see this, let that go.

The truth is everybody else has their own insecurities that they're also probably trying to take off too, just so they can be present in the moment. Um, also want to embrace differences. so like you all said with like basically i think it's like right brain left brain um like introvert extrovert kind of personalities and um opposites attracting and things like that like all of this is beautiful that's one of the things about meeting new people in these places that we get to celebrate and enjoy.

So if you are the couple that's like same and same or opposite, you know, whatever it is that helped bring you to whatever lifestyle event you're at is the thing that's probably going to keep you together once you guys leave as well. So let that be the thing that strengthens you and keeps you together instead of the thing that you're taking as what's going to make it pull away from each other yeah mrs jones told me a long time ago being different something different doesn't mean it's something better yeah yeah i like that she comes up with good good things good things every once in a while.

Thanks, babe. Okay, and so with that, I just want to express that we should normalize being vulnerable. And I think, like, I want to just, like, have, like, a brush some dirt off my shoulder, a little chip on there for, like, lifestyle people in general. They're very, very good about wanting to be vulnerable and open with their partner. And so I just want to continue to encourage that in our relationships. Yeah, I think vulnerability is sexy. And because we want to know people before we become intimate. And that's the best way to get to know somebody is for somebody to be vulnerable.

Because once somebody is, then usually other people, you know, reciprocate with vulnerabilities of their own. Yeah, I think Brene Brown talks about that so beautifully about how we should be vulnerable with each other. Because once you recognize, oh, I'm human, you're human too, that's actually what brings you together what draws people in and and let's let you know that that's probably a person you could spend some time with right yep so um when it comes to combating these insecurities um reminding yourself to stop the comparison.

Embr own individuality um shift your perspective rather than focus focusing on like the catastrophizing like oh my gosh this is going to end in the worst thing ever or engaging in you always do this or this never happens um or even mind reading like i'm just going to assume that i know what my partner's thinking and then what everybody else in the room is thinking. Um, maybe taking a deep breath, checking in with your body a little bit, um, asking yourself what you need in that moment. And then maybe kind of saying like, Hey, I just had this whole scene play out in my head.

Do you want to help me to help top me off the, off the ledge a little bit and then replace it with like a truth, something that's real or a mantra that you need to help you move towards your goal um you know i i think sometimes it's easier for me to to share the outlandish things that go through my head with mr jones because they're they're still they're they're so crazy they're silly are they real like, that's a real voice in my head. And you can obsess on that, right? But logically, you know, he's not going to do that or this isn't going to happen.

So sometimes if I can just get that out there and start the conversation, then I can throw in some of the things that are a little scarier in that they're a little more realistic. Not the outlandish fears, but some of the other smaller fears. Sometimes those are hard to lead with because your partner doesn't know where you're coming from.

I got lots of crazy things i can always lead with i think i'm not going to comment on that but i think having those conversations you know once you have some and survive them um and then your partner hopefully can can share things as well then they're i think they're easier to have as time goes on i think next event we do instead of instead of getting, we got a thing, bracelets, we're going to get, stop the comparison bracelets. I love that. I love that. Oh, that would be great. And then also, I guess, last but not least, is to take off the pressure.

Like I said before, let's focus on emotional connection and brain connection um and allow other people to pursue their own goals um while you're pursuing your goal and eventually one of some goals will match up and you'll have a really great sexy time um but regardless the goal is like you all said to keep trying like to get back in there and to challenge. And even if like the first part of the night didn't go well, you still have the rest of the night to try to change that and to stop being the opposite of the goal that you're actually wanting. Yeah.

I mean, let's get back to the old drawing board. And if you think about it, whether it's your family, your career, your marriage, friendships, you don't give up on things that are important to you.

And so this shouldn't be something that you just say, well, we tried it once and not going to be able to get past this, you know, whatever the story is that you're're telling yourself so I think that's the most important takeaway in this in this whole lesson is you got to just keep trying and when you get those truthful stories now you have something to compare you have reality to compare to the imaginative stories that you've been telling yourself yes and it And it doesn't have to be a big one. It can start small. Like, did I have a good time? Sure. Yeah. Right.

Did we, how many, did we meet a couple? Did we connect with a couple? Yeah. That's where it needs to start.

So be, as we start to wind up, wind up, Miche, I hope that you will stick around for a minute because we have some comments and some questions from listeners and community members about this topic so um if you don't mind we're going to take turns reading them and then maybe all three of us if if we want to can can comment on these all right okay i'll take the first one okay there's three of them as someone who grew up in a religious environment for most of my life that inner voice in my head was always a bit confusing to navigate am i hearing from god is it a voice of others or is it my inner critic is it my parents i didn't always bring greater confidence, but instead it often led me feeling anxious.

In this new season of life, I'm learning to trust myself in ways I never felt confident in before and to evaluate my inner dialogue with this question in mind. Are these thoughts serving me? Is this inner voice helping me move forward? Is it warming me? Is it warning me of something to look out for in the future? Or is it creating fear, insecurity, and crippling my growth? I loved the challenging questions in this statement. Are these thoughts serving me?

i thought that was beautiful right um and and then also is it moving me forward is it warning me it sounds like they're actually like trying to say okay is this happening in my body is this helping me move towards my goals is this even some thoughts that i want to have um i think i like to use that particular thing around like um like guilt like how guilty do i want to feel about this particular thing that's happened and what does the guilt do you know so like are these thoughts serving me i love that yeah and if we think about it as we're children again growing up we're we're being programmed, pure and simple.

I mean, by our parents, by our siblings, by our family, and then as we get older, by our teachers, by our friends, by our coaches, by our pastors, and everybody is telling you they're programming a part of you. But what i like about people that if you've made it this far and you found our podcast and you're exploring or thinking about exploring non-monogamy you've already become overcome a major hurdle and that is you're this you're you're making your own choices based on your own relationship and you've challenged yourself already.

Well, you're giving yourself permission to be curious, you know, and I think that's a big part of it. Right. I think like, I kind of felt like this was like a little bit of a question as well, like, when I was reading it.

And it made me think about how a lot of times, like, in certain faith paradigms, you were taught to not trust yourself, to not trust your gut instinct, and to trust what you're being told by other people or what other people want from you, like the expectations and, and things like, um, like for example, um, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps is nowhere in the Bible. um and it is definitely something that a lot of people have considered to be a part of like christian rhetoric you know, or just like good morals as a person.

And so I think it's really important that we learn to trust our own gut, what's happening on the inside and to listen to it. And sometimes it't trying to tell us anything good right when the inner critic starts like going off and it's chatting a million times a minute okay i'm going to be like really clear like self-disclosure here like i had a gummy one time and i was it was a weed gummy and um i got really high and i could hear my inner voice and the dialogue just went on and on and on. And I was like, dear God, will she just shut up? Like she just keeps going.

And I remember like in my head, I'm like thinking if this is what our inner critic or inner voices kind of sound like, like this person needs to know that they're validated and cared for and love and even bad stuff.

Like what you're actually trying to is protect me like why don't i feel safe in this moment right and so we do need to listen to learn how to hold space for ourselves and what's coming up you don't have to do anything with it sometimes it doesn't serve you um but being kind to yourself is important yeah i think this is a whole other podcast topic, so we may have to make note of that. Because, you know, when you said, what would someone else do? Well, I'm just going to keep picking on religion for a minute because we grew up Christian, and there was a phrase, what would Jesus do?

Well, the only reason I knew what Jesus would do is because a human being told me what Jesus wanted me to do. And then I'm like, well, how do I know that that's what Jesus wants me to do? It could be what you want me to do. And you're using, and parents do the same thing, you know, with guilt. You know, so it's getting to a point where you're comfortable enough and and i like this j is Jones, your word, curious. And if you're in a relationship with somebody or you're in a community of people that can support that, that makes a huge difference.

When you see other people stripping away things that they've been taught and then you feel like, well, if they can do it can do it yeah yeah do you want to take the second one okay number two my brain is incredibly loud most of the time to the point of distraction at times i'm definitely an overthinker and i ask a lot of questions with the more logical side of my brain when i'm in a healthy frame of mind i've always been pretty good at evaluating whatever feeling or concern or fear that comes up, asking myself internally about whether the feeling is valid, whether it's a trigger, and if so, was a trigger something in me and my past or something my partner did?

Is there legitimacy to the warning sign or is it just a fear? And then she goes on to say, I'm assuming it's a she because I can really relate to this. If I am not in a healthy frame of mind, as in if my lid has been flipped where I'm either experiencing an overwhelming emotion or fear, it's always worked out best for me to make a lot of space for calmness and processing and to actually talk that out with Mr. X. That helps calm me and get perspective.

Either way, in both situations, the key has been stepping back to get a better look at what I'm dealing with, asking for perspective, and asking questions before acting on the feeling. This is especially key when we enter brand new territory.

Wow, she's got it figured out because i don't do the last part very well i think you do i think we've both gotten better at recognizing when our lids are flipped and they are semi-flipped or just irritated that we wait a day or two or three and and we're able to talk about it more rationally at that but it is so hard at first to just be patient and not want to bring it up as soon as you get in the car to come home or first thing in the morning or when you get in bed you know that's such a tempting thing to do. Oh, well, this one took me a while.

I remember I was having some really big arguments with my partner. It was just like a rough season in life. And I needed to teach myself distance, right? I wanted to like solve the problem now, wanted to get to the point. But the problem is that when I do that, I upload my inner lawyer and nobody wants to come to the table but the problem is that when i do that i upload my inner lawyer and nobody wants to come to the table with that i needed to like learn how to put some distance and regulate myself before i could come to the table um because my body was like oh this't working.

We need to get back in harmony. So my body, my brain was trying to keep me safe. But on the side, that looks not like me trying to keep myself safe. And very much so, like, Your Honor, I have exhibit A, B, C, and D to present to the court. You know, it's not healthy for a relationship. so um I actually had to start rollerblading for like an hour between arguments to give myself space. So it was good, but I needed to Tucker myself out in order to like sit in my like calm adult brain to have these conversations.

So the logical side took some time to get online before you know i just did all the things so i love that they were able to to get there yeah well and the one thing i really liked is that she said you know not only taking a step back and and calming herself but then asking for perspective because that sometimes i think if if i could do that sooner i think mr jones would be able to like you know talk me off the ledge so to speak because he would be able to to give me the the other side of the coin that i'm totally missing in my frantic, you know, musings. Yep. All right, last one.

And a lot of people had this same thought, Miche. Wait, I'm supposed to only have one voice in my head? I'm pretty sure mine has multiple personalities then. Over the years, I've learned to give each voice time and space to be heard. The more they're heard, usually the more rational they become and thus less annoying. They're at different phases of evolution, however, and some are still pre-adolescent and need some extra soothing.

I usually take to either talking things out with my partner or taking it to journaling writing really helps me get things out of my brain and leaves me something to read and reflect on later journaling is amazing like it's judgment-free zone you can say the craziest shit and no one's going to be like you need help you know like the paper will not judge you i endorse that 100 oh boy well these comments came from our community members so i'm i don't even know why we're doing this episode we should have just had them that we could have just read all their comments and probably done just as good of a job as we're trying to do with this but anyway we we appreciate um everyone who contributed to this that it's spot on with a lot of the things that we are we've gone through and we we will go through and it'll help others to know that hey i, I'm not going through this by myself, right?

Nope, not at all. Well, I want to thank you, Miche, but before we let you go, next month, Catherine is going to be back with us and she's going to talk about Swally. So I'm going to try to define this unless you want to try to take a stab at Swally, Miche. I actually want to hear your definition. Hold on. I want to hear it, and then I want to chime in. Okay. What is your definition of Swally? It's very simple. S-W comes from swinging. Okay. And O-L-L-Y comes from polyamorous. Well, I've got an extra L, but yeah. It needed it.

But so it may be, it must be some sort of a combination of those two things and how that can be different or defined differently by those who choose to be swally. I like this definition. This is good. I don't think mine's going to be any different. I'm just going to say it in a different fashion. I think it's for people who started out as lifestyle and then found themselves like a couple weeks later. I don't know how this quad happened, but here I am and I don't want to get rid of it. So how do I keep this going well? And feeling like they can really do life together for a while.

And so there's, but I think differently than what I think a lot of people consider to be poly relationships. A lot of times it's swallies, swallie relationships. And I've also heard different versions of Swally. Like, oh my gosh, I love how the community will make up their own versions of what Swally signifies. It's not like there's, they get into the quad and it becomes like a poly fidelity situation.

Like they enjoy the couple that they're with, but they still continue to play and have other couples that they enjoy but this particular like like couple match up that goes really well is like the anchor right like position yeah do you have a different definition honey no i think you both define my very limited understanding of it. Well, all three have to listen next time to Catherine to see if we were close to being right about that. She's probably laughing her head off right now. So, Miche, I know you guys are busy. Expansive Connection is growing. There's all kinds of stuff going on.

What's going's going on that uh people might want to know about from expansive connection katherine has two ladies retreats in the fall and um there was huge mass email that we sent out last friday um so if you are interested in uh the women's retreats i think i think it's two i think one's a couple's retreat a women's retreat. Don't, don't quote me on that, but there's two retreats. If you're interested in that, please feel free to look on our website because we have them up at expansiveconnection.com. Just check them out, see what they're like, see if it's something that you'd like to join.

um and then we have a couple of more workshops in the spring and summer that are coming up um and we also have a women's pleasure retreat and wise and wild menopause retreat in November in Pigeon Forge. I think Catherine's going to be spearheading that.

So we're also, I believe, in the works for some men's groups as well we're excited about that um our uh other coach jason will be spearfitting that one more than likely so yes katherine is going to show up actually in our community um our our bi-weekly men's zoom she's going to pop in and talk about uh sexual wellness with the guys and i think get some feedback from them to help put together a workshop around sexual wellness um well anyway there's so much going on i think the best thing for people to do is to either go to expansive connection.com or you can go to we got a thing.com and there's a link to expansive connection on our website and you all have a newsletter uh so when they go to your website they can subscribe to the newsletter and that will have all the details of everything that's coming up yeah we send out our newsletter all the time and of course that's okay um in our community and our we got a thing community expansive connection has a have their own space in our community, and it's very active, and there's a lot of monthly topics and workshops and things going on there.

So a little bit of access to Expansive Connection, all of the wonderful counselors there that we so enjoy working with. So I think that just about does it. Like I said, you can find us on wegotathing.com we've got our community that we've talked about we've got desire trips coming up there's a way to contact us if you have any more uh questions about what's going on with the joneses and i think we will be back i don't even know when when we're going to podcast again I probably should have thought of that before I sat down. Well, it's going to be soon. Yeah. We've got so much to talk about.

I was looking through our upcoming episodes, and we've got three or four or five in the tank, and we've got some origin stories lined up. So we have lots of stuff to record. We're not going anywhere.

is never a dull moment no no it's not there's always something to do and something to get into it's awesome that's right yeah well michelle thank you again we appreciate you guys so much yeah thanks for taking the time to do this and we always look forward to our monthly chats with expansive connection i'm always excited when it's my month i'm like it's my turn get to push the other coaches out of the way hang out with you guys for an hour or two i'm always here for it well you look fantastic and i'm glad that you're healthy and uh well we look forward to seeing you again in a few months yeah i'll be all right well take care take care We'll see you next time.