Most of us have mastered being 'adult-like' in all aspects of our lives. We are experienced at life. We are parents, spouses/partners, coaches, employees, teachers, leaders and friends. We've become accustomed to situations that require a mature and thoughtful response (most of the time anyway!). However, when engaged in non-monogamy we can experience new things and perhaps even some new feelings. We are sharing ourselves and our partners initmately with others. Our relationship is now at risk so the stakes are high. Situations will arise that invoke strong emotions in a way we may not have experienced before and it can be difficult not to act out in ways that may hurt others or push them away. In this episode Catherine, a licensed therapist from Expansive Connection Coaching talks about what is happening inside our brains and how we might be able to anticipate and respond 'like adults' when things don't go as we expect.
Transcript
This podcast contains explicit language and content and is for mature audiences only. Hey you teenagers out there, if you're under 18, this show is more for your parents. So now that you have that mental picture stuck in your head, put some music on and get back to doing your homework. We are a longtime married couple who's decided to chronicle our personal adventures and share our sex positive discussions as we navigate our way through the swinging lifestyle. Care to join us?
hello everyone i'm mr jones and i'm mrs jones and we want to welcome you to episode 117 of the we got a thing podcast let me see if i can get this tongue twister you're the one that came up with the title ethical non-monogamy is an adult activity very good or enm you can be cool can be cool about it. ENM. Yes. ENM is an adult activity. Yes, it is. And I'm happy to say that our marriage survived another home decorating project. Like, seriously, we were hanging some big stuff stuff and we didn't fight and we really didn't screw it up too bad. And we picked it out together. I know.
So we went shopping on Sunday. It was like a stormy day on Sunday. So couldn't really do the beach or the pool or anything. And we went shopping for artwork to hang on our walls in our new house. And we actually I'll see you next time. Couldn't really do the beach or the pool or anything. And we went shopping for artwork to hang on our walls in our new house. And we actually instantly agreed on things. Yeah. We got the beachy thing going. We bought a couple of herons. Oh, they're so pretty. They're blue herons. And it's two prints. They're like tall, thin prints.
And they're identical, except the herons are facing each each other and one has a little bit of an attitude so that must be me that's the female well there's all kinds of wildlife to choose from down here you know you got the everybody's on the sea turtle bandwagon so i didn't want to get sea turtles and then there's seahorses and flamingos and seagulls starfish starfish and you know that fish there's crabs down here and like i'm i'm a crab snob because we're from the chesapeake bay area so if it ain't a blue crab it's not real yeah and so since we can actually potentially see herons from our back lanai right because we have a pond in our backyard yeah we went with the herons yes they're very cool looking you know herons eat turtles by the way oh really i didn't want to tell you that before we bought it well they eat the little turtles not the big ones that's even worse because those are the cute ones yeah they're like the little frogs that stick to our windows yeah the gig the frogs with their beaks yeah so we we used your brawn and my brains to hang the the paintings i did all the measuring and the calculating.
Yeah, and I did all the groundwork. And then you held up all the heavy paintings to make sure they didn't rip out of the wall. It's starting to look like we live here now. I know. We need to do some, like what do they call them? Accent walls. We're having a couple accent walls done and some beams put in our what are they called? Peaked?
I don i don't even know our slope ceilings vaulted ceiling thank you thank god been a long day we did go to the beach though we did have fun at the beach yes it's nice because you can just go to the beach and be there in like 20 minutes we can be set up in 20 minutes because it only takes about 10 but we haven't we haven't been to the beach for sunset we need to do that yet yes the sun the sunsets on the gulf coast are spectacular yeah i don't know what happens to the sky i don't know if it's like the humidity or what but our sunsets here are so colorful like every night we're very fortunate and speaking of beaches.
We just got back from Miami Beach. Yes, we did. Another PCAP in the books. Yes. And Kate did another masterful job. As always. As host. And she, every time we saw her, she was running her little hiney off. I know. That girl works hard. I'm telling you what.
She does does she is the hostess with the mostest that's for sure yeah and we decided to drive this year because last year it took us eight or nine hours to fly because we had to fly from miami to st louis and then back to florida i know that was crazy yeah but so we ended up driving which was nice because we got to stop and see some friends on the way down and we got to take as much stuff as we wanted to yeah to worry about packing but yeah yeah so it was a really fun event the weather for the most part was good it didn't rain one afternoon but we made the best of that you know what I think that was like probably one of my favorite times of the whole weekend.
It was raining buckets. I know. And we had friends that had a really nice room like right off of the pool area. And what they were like, what, maybe 10 of us in there? Yeah. And we ended up ordering pizza and they had driven as well. So they had a cooler with all kinds of beverages in it and they had snacks in the room. And we all just sat around and talked for like, I think three hours. Yeah. It was great. So that was one of my three favorite things of the weekend. My other second favorite thing was with the room crawls. Yes. That was super fun.
people really outdid themselves this year yeah and i just want to say kate for the record and let's take nothing away from kate because you worked your butt off and the themes and the djs and the decorations and all that but the room crawls are um attendees that volunteer to decorate their rooms for a couple of hours on Saturday afternoon, and we just wander from room to room. And they host. And they host, yeah. So it's like there's like a dozen different little parties going on throughout the hotel.
Everybody has a different theme in their room, and they decorate, and some of them have specialty drinks, and some of them have little games that you play but what we're and nibbles you know it was kate's event you have to have nibbles but the thing that first of all about those two things is that we we really thrive in more intimate settings so when we are doing a room crawl and you're you, you're probably maybe six or eight people in a room and you get to meet new, new people. And it's just a more of a relaxing. And it's random, you know, it's random.
It's not like you're checking out people or people are checking you out. You just randomly run into people and, and it's just provides a great opportunity to talk to somebody you haven't had a chance to yet. Yeah. So that was a favorite. And also, I like the pool better this year because there was no big pool parties. I know a lot of people like the pool parties, but it was a little more social at the pool this time. We were able to wander around and chat with people there.
And hear they were when they were talking to you yeah i mean the themes i mean i'd i'd be lying if i said that that was my thing um you know but i think it's always been tough for us in the lifestyle to we don't enjoy the you know kind of the loud thumpy just like naughty in new orleans and a few other areas but that's just us, you know, kind of the loud, thumpy, just like not in New Orleans and a few other areas. But that's just us. You know, a lot of people enjoyed that. Oh, people were having a blast. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the hotel staff was nice, amazing. It was just a really fun event.
And if you ever get a chance, I think her San Antonio event is sold out. And I know she's doing something in Vegas, but just keep an eye on Libertine events and PCAP in the future, because there's going to be opportunities to attend well into 2025. I think she's hitting her stride. Yeah, definitely.
If she doesn't stress herself out, she's going to be successful uh the other thing we have coming up is later this week yeah uh three days three days we're flying to riviera maya and uh kind of getting a little bit excited about it we haven't been to rm since they've remodeled and added the eden yeah so and we're going to get to stay on the Eden side. We are staying on the Eden side, and there's about 40 or so couples in our group, and we're kind of flying blind because we don't know the hotel management like we do at Pearl.
We don't know the resort like we do at Pearl, so we're just going to get there and wing it and see what we can come up with. Yeah. Well, I mean, we know most of the people that are going, so I think they'll be pretty forgiving. And I, and I think they're pretty good at having a good time. I don't think they're going to be waiting on us to entertain them. No, I don't think so either. Although we will. Yeah. Yes.
And hopefully if it goes well, next time we go back, we'll be a little bit better prepared right to do some more organizing and some more activities but um yeah so we're getting in to the swing of things event wise um what else do we have going on is that it no we you know what we really survived i mean hanging the artwork was easy we just um went back to virginia and helped move our daughter down here. Oh yeah. I had, I had totally blocked that out. I know the, the past month has been horrid. Well, I mean, work wise, like just craziness. Yeah.
We, we drove to Virginia and then I pulled a, a U-Haul trailer back down with my truck loaded full of stuff. Yeah, that's how we decided what she would bring. Whatever would fit in the trailer and the back of our truck. Everything else went to Goodwill. And the back of your sister's truck because she offered to help move, too. So she and her husband helped us. So, yeah, we had two pickup trucks and a trailer. Yeah, we went up. We were gone for a week. We got back on a Monday, moved her in on a Tuesday, did laundry on Wednesday and left her PCAP on Thursday. Yeah. It was not cool.
We weren't at our, we didn't have the most energy I would say at this event. Yeah. So it was another month of hanging ceiling fans and, uh, all that other stuff that you have to do when you move in yep and we're coming home from rm and doing the exact same thing we're turning right back around and we're driving back to virginia yeah we have some friends up there that we're gonna go visit well they're renewing their their vows and and you're officiating i am officiating i know that's right this is the second time you've officiated at a vow renewal oh Oh, that's right. One was at Desire. I know.
How could I forget? People are putting their relationships in your hands. That's a little concerning. But this silly, silly woman that asked me to do this, and she's a longtime friend. So she asked me to do this, and then we're driving all the way to Virginia.
And then she sent me a document, like a three-page document of what I was supposed to read oh I didn't know that oh do you think I'm gonna read that no if I mean you could have asked anybody to read it she's gonna she's gonna get me right that's what she wanted that's what she's gonna get so I think for dramatic purposes I'm gonna rip her document up when I go up and make her a little bit nervous these are these are well the husband is your childhood oh yeah we went to high school and we've been friends with her well for three decades now because they're celebrating their 30th anniversary yeah then after that maybe we'll sit at home at the pool for a while we are we are but then i'm going to kidnap you and take you to the mediterranean week.
Yeah. When is that? That's August, right? End of August. Yep. And then I guess we can't forget at the end of the year, we have another desire trip planned back to good old Desire Pearl in November. Which at this point in time is sold out. Right. It's the 9th through the 16th, I think, are our dates. But rooms are sold out now, but 45 days out when people have to make their final payments and they really get serious about looking at their calendars, there's usually a lot of cancellations. Yeah.
I would say if you're interested in going, you should probably look for rooms sometime in the first week or two of September.
They'll start, they'll start to open start to open up yep yeah so we hope that uh if you're interested in november that you'll get a chance to book and we'll see you then um so when we come back we're gonna set up our conversation that we had with katherine from expansive connection about let me make sure i get this right non-monogamy is an adult activity ethical non-monogamy okay is an adult activity that's just i mean think about it babe like it's ethical because we're doing it together and it's transparent right like non-monogamy could just be cheating i think it should be non-monogamy and unethical non-monogamy okay why don't you brand that maybe you're onto something because I mean it's like saying i have an ethical profession or i'm an ethical neighbor or i'm an ethical i mean i don't want to qualify it by making people think that you have to be ethical that should be a part of everything that you do should be is the key key phrase in that sentence.
Yeah. Okay. So what are we going to call it? We're going to call it ethical non-monogamy. We're going to say the lifestyles and adult activity. Okay. There you go. Short and sweet. All right. We'll be right back. Okay. Well, welcome back to segment two.
we are excited to have you listen to the great conversation we had with katherine of expansive connections yes katherine as you probably know if you've listened to us for any period of time has been a partner she has been to many of of our events and hosted workshops we have co-hosted workshops together um we've done a lot of activities together um her expansive connection group has a presence in our community and our we gotta think community and she has podcasted with us before an episode about um jealousy and also an episode about drama in the lifestyle. Hey, we knew her back when.
Yes, she's going to talk about that because I twisted her arm. She first reached out to us quite a few years ago before she started Expansive Connection and in our correspondence, I said, you really need to come on our podcast. And she said, I am not going to put my voice out there and look at her now. I know, I know. She's come a long way. And what a blessing she is to the whole E&M community. Yes. So we had a conversation with her about what it means that this is an adult activity. And, you know, we are adult-like, I would say, at this point in our lives.
We're pretty much adult-like in every other aspect of our lives. We are parents. We're children. We are bosses. We are employees. We are coaches. We are teachers.
We are community leaders, and and we know how to behave we generally know how to behave in society right but for some reason and we'll talk about this when you're in the lifestyle and feelings start to get in um to come about and get involved and there's hormones and there's alcohol and you are sharing a part of you that you only share with normally one other person and you're sharing the most important person in your life with other people and when you add all that together sometimes it's a little bit difficult to stay in the adult chair for me it's really difficult like let's just call it I mean it it my my lid is flippable let's just say that yes your lid is flippable my hinge is well oiled yeah right so we wanted to talk to Catherine about this because obviously she has personal experience in it and she also has a practice where she's talked to many other people.
And we were, you know, I think I make her a little bit nervous because we don't do much of an outline. We just say, hey, this is what we're going to talk about. And then we just start talking. but those are the best conversations we have with her because she's so good at at redirecting and keeping you know keeping us on task yes right so we're going to let you go now and listen to our conversation with katherine and we'll be back at the end to summarize and put this in a nice neat little bow bow for you. It's good to see you again. Always.
We're here with Catherine from Expansive Connection, and I think we've done an episode on jealousy, which is one of our most downloaded episodes. We did an episode with you about drama and the lifestyle, and we've talked to you a lot about your business, and you're a big part of our community and in our lives, kind of a really good friend, but it's always very special when we can see you in the flesh. Reach out in touch with microphones in hand, especially being in beautiful Miami at a gorgeous event. Yes, yes.
We're totally taking advantage of you and pulling you into the room, unfortunately, just to record a podcast. I know. And this room is so nice for all sorts of other things. Yeah. So anyway, we have talked over the years. And every time we talk, whether it's in person or whether it's on a Zoom, a live call, we just talk. And a lot of the things that you see, and not only in your practice, but in your experience that we see, we connect on a lot of different levels.
And it's always a fun conversation, but it also turns into, I think, something that's very valuable and that a lot of our listeners can definitely relate to. Yeah. I'm not sure we've ever had a conversation that didn't have somewhere in there. We should do a podcast about that. That's right. That's right. So we were talking, Mrs. Jones and I were talking, and then we brought you into the conversation about, you know, there's something more than just drama.
You know, it's easy to label something, and we talk about emotion and we talk about jealousy and things like this but also what we've noticed is that you know okay we're in our 60s um you know we we have life experience let's just put it that way and in every aspect of our lives and our careers we're adult-like uh we are we're parents, we're teachers, we're coaches, we're employees, we're community members, you know, all of these things that we do in life that we've mastered to a large degree, and we know how to act in public.
And we, you know, don't really put the boxing gloves on until we get home and it's just the two of us. But in the lifestyle, what we've noticed is that there are a lot of opportunities when you take hormones and alcohol or any other substance and, you know, your people are scantily clad sometimes and you're there to meet people. Excitement, expectations. Exactly. And all of that kind of forms this perfect place where if things don't go well, we can respond in a way that is something other than adult. Yeah.
And so we talked about, maybe we could get together and talk about what that looks like and some of the things that we've experienced and shared with others. And then maybe from your practice, what you've experienced, but really we don't want to dwell on that as much as we want to help people understand what they're dealing with and maybe give them some tools and ideas for how to handle that instead of like our kids do, right? So I'll just say that there were a few illustrations that we came up with that we think set this conversation up to talk about. One is rejection.
And you and I, we've talked about this before. I think you did a workshop. A workshop workshop yes was it atlanta i think or or nashville one of our fun times together so rejection whether that's before during or after play um catching feelings that you know a lot of people have experienced that that can lead to a lot of unemotional response, jealousy, or envy, or inappropriate attraction with somebody that maybe you shouldn't really even be messing with to begin with.
But we get into this lifestyle, we get into this mindset, and these things occur, and we've never experienced them before, and we don't know how to handle them. Right, Right. Yeah. And I'll say that, you know, when you're, when you're talking about that, like where we feel really confident in being in our adult, our adult chair and our adult selves in all these areas, I think one of the things we should start with is why is it harder to stay in our adult in these lifestyle situations? The ones you mentioned, other ones, even fun, fun situations.
And I guess I want to point out that I think one of the reasons it's harder to stay in our adult Thank you. the ones you mentioned, other ones, even fun, fun situations. And I guess I want to point out that I think one of the reasons it's harder to stay in our adult there is we've upped the ante. We are considering sharing our bodies, our sexual selves. We are considering opening up and sharing our most precious relationship, this sacred union that we have. And anything that is valuable to us is worth protecting. And if we are protecting it, we can get really defensive about it.
We can get really childish about it. We can stomp our feet. We can go into fight or flight and act like a fool because it's really important to us and it matters. And when we go out and we're at a community meeting, we're at a church meeting, or we're at a family reunion, we're buttoned up and we're ready. It isn't hitting our really vulnerable spots like sex and love and emotion and our primary partnership. That's the deep gooey stuff. And so it is harder to stay adult sometimes in those situations. And I think that's normal.
And we need to all recognize that, that there's nothing wrong with us for that. Yeah. And, and there are other real human beings involved in this, whether it's a play partner that you may barely even know, or maybe it's your partner and your partner you've been with for a long time. So maybe we could talk about specifically some of the situations where rejection occurs. So when we did the workshop, when you did the workshop, it was mostly on, hey, reaching out to a couple on a dating site or at an event and saying, hey, are you guys interested in fill in the blank? And you get the no.
And in that situation, the dynamic is at least the two of us were rejected together. Right, correct. So we have each other to console. Like, this is my priority anyway, so how bent out of shape could I be for that? But there's a tendency to feel like, what is it about us that, you know, why don't people like us or why are people rejecting us? And sometimes we can respond negatively to them and really they didn't mean it personally. There was just, who knows what's going on in their mind, right? They just rejected you.
But when they, when you feel rejected, your lid flips, anybody who doesn't know what I'm talking about, go back to episode 41 and understand your brain and your hand and how your lid flips because we are tribal beings. And we evolutionarily understand that our survival is dependent on our tribe and being accepted by our tribe. And so when we feel rejected, it can get to the base of our brain and set off this fiery, oh no, we've been rejected from the tribe. We've been voted off the island. We're going to die in a, you know, a ditch by ourselves with a dog in your face.
And really, it was just somebody saying they didn't want to have a drink with us. But in that moment, we go back to that primal urge to be accepted. And so when we're in that prime, when we've had that primal urge to be accepted, that's been threatened, that's when we start to act like a fool. We're not acting like adults. We're acting like cavemen with our lids flipped. Yeah. And then I want to talk about after being rejected after, and then we'll get to being rejected in the middle, because I think that's the most difficult.
But even after you've been with a couple and you think everything went fine, you had a good time. And then all of a sudden they don't express interest or they don't respond. And that's a different level of rejection because you've, you've invested something into that relationship and now it's being pulled away from you. Yes. And it could happen after the first play session or the third or the seventh. And actually one of your episodes that I send couples to all the time when this happens is the chemistry one. Because so often that rejection just has to do with a shift in chemistry.
We had tons of chemistry at a hot hotel in Miami, but then we go and visit at their house and the chemistry's not there. Well, it's just situational. So yes, but anytime we're rejected, it hurts. And even if we can, when we can get our lids back on and we can rationalize and understand, it might just be about chemistry or it might be they have something new going on in their lives or something, whatever. But in the moment, we're going to be flipped and it's going to hurt. And I think during play, and you all can speak to it from a woman's perspective, because I'm going to pick on the men.
And generally speaking, there have been people who have reached out to us and said, I was in the middle of play and it, it didn't go well, or, or the woman wanted to say no. And the gentleman responded sometimes angrily, you know, that, and even sometimes blaming, you know, the other person for something that's not going well. And, um, that's when you really get to know who people are, unfortunately is, but at that point in time, it's like words like that at a moment like that, when people are most vulnerable can really cause some damage.
And so understanding that when you go into this, there's a possibility at any time that somebody could pull the plug and I have to kind of understand that and be respectful of that. But sometimes that doesn't happen. It's difficult. Yes, for sure. And I don't think it's just men that respond that way. I think that sometimes the setup of us women being the gatekeepers and that, you know, we should just keep our legs crossed because anytime we open them, some man's going to want to go in. Or if we offer it, every man should say yes.
That sometimes when women are, you know, quote, get rejected or, you know, redirected or turned down in the moment of play, we can be pretty nasty because we have kind of this expectation like that we should be wanted all the time. I'm offering this so every man should say yes. Well, that's ridiculous when we hear that out loud, right? But we have been socialized with that gatekeeper, watch out for all those horny men. So know, so I think that can happen either way. Yeah. So that's, that's rejection.
That's one situation or term that describes situations that you're going to find yourselves in, in the lifestyle that you could possibly emotionally react to in the moment. Let's talk about jealousy or envy. You mentioned episode 41. And if you want to know more about jealousy or understand jealousy, let's go back to 41. But for the purpose of this podcast, we're talking about not getting something that we want, or somebody else is getting something that I'm not comfortable with.
And when that emotion or that reaction to that emotion gets you stirred up for whatever reason, there's a potential for less than adult behavior in that case as well. Absolutely. And in that episode, and I've gotten on a soapbox ever since you gave me that platform, I've tried to normalize jealousy and envy. We are going to have them. They are a normal, natural emotion. In monogamy, we have them and it becomes a stop sign. Well, everybody just stop what you're doing. We're not going to dig any deeper or try to learn any lessons from jealousy or envy. It's just everybody stop.
Well, as we get on this journey, we realize if we do that, we're just going to be behind stop signs all the time. And so when we realize that jealousy and envy are normal and natural and actually are gifts to us, people are going to like roll their eyes when I say that, I know. When there is jealousy, it means we need to dig more. We need to understand that something is going on, but we got to figure out, is it an inside job? Is this my insecurity? Is there something that I need to deal with? Is this old childhood stuff? Is this PTSD from an old relationship? Or is this an outside?
Is there something that's happening in my relationship that doesn't feel right? That our attachment maybe is being rocked, and I'm getting jealousy, I'm getting feelings of jealousy? Well, good, because then you need to put a spotlight on your relationship to say, if it's not an inside job, if I'm feeling secure and I usually don't feel this way, but I am, what's going on here? Not to blame, but to make sure that you're digging and learning from this. Right. And probably the one that's going to be really sensitive is when you use the word feelings. People catch feelings.
And so much can go on there. You've got the dynamic between your partner. You've got the dynamic between is it you that's catching the feelings or is it them? And how do you talk about that?
And how all of a sudden you go back to being a 14-year- again and you know you're infatuated you know with something and we we because what did we tell our kids you know when they were 10 or 11 and 12 and came to us and said they love somebody and we said oh yeah that that's nice honey now go do your homework yeah yeah that's cute puppy love get over yeah but all of a sudden we have that feeling or that feeling again at a later age when we're in a relationship how do you handle that because it comes out of the blue and sometimes it comes out of the blue and you don't know how you're supposed to deal with it and it can lead to a lot of hurt feelings or things that are said you know that maybe you should have thought twice about said actions they're all all sorts of things and so yes that idea of catching feelings and I'm going to talk about this in multiple situations here but realizing that our feelings and our thoughts are all real and most of the many our thoughts, our feelings and our initial thoughts aren't really within our control.
Some people don't like to hear that. I like to think of them as the weather, like they kind of blow through. And if you don't latch onto them, they'll blow on through. But sometimes when we have a feeling or we have a thought, we think, well, this is real. So I must do something about it because it's real. It is real. And you actually can't help that you had the feeling or the thought, but you can have control.
And you really need to accept the adult responsibility of having control for the next thoughts you have, what you think about the feelings, what you think about those thoughts, and then most importantly, what actions you take based on them. So the whole idea of whoopsies, I fell in love. I couldn't help it. I'm calling bullshit. Now you may have fallen in love. Yes. Whoops. Okay. But what are you doing with it? Because love is a verb. Where are you putting your loving attention? So you catch feelings for someone?
Is acting on those feelings going to keep you in integrity with the commitments you've made, with the goals that you have for yourself, for your relationship, for your moral code? That's for each of us to decide. But this idea of, whoops, I fell in love, so I'm not responsible for anything I did after that? Bullshit. Yeah. And before I like where you're going with this this.
And before we get there though, I'm thinking back to defend everyone is, you know, when we're younger and we're going through things like this, we have a parent or a coach or a teacher or an HR department or somebody that's coming, come along beside me and say, Hey, I'm taking you out of the game because we don't behave that way. That's bad sportsmanship. Or that's not the way you talk to somebody. So you're going to sit down and what you're going to do without this. We have some sort of guidance as we're navigating early life.
But when we're at this point and we think we know everything and we're adult and then we're hit with this, there's nobody, maybe our spouse, but guess what? They're just our spouse. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Oh, we can have some selective hearing there. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So there's nobody that's going to come along really and tap you on the shoulder and say, Hey, look, buddy, think about what you're doing here and look at what's happening over here and look how this person is damaged over here. We don't, we don't really have that, which is why you're here. Well, yes.
But I'll also say that I think that if we do have someone that loves us enough to tap us on the shoulder and say, I think you're heading, you're, this is going to be a dumpster fire. You are, this is a train wreck waiting to happen. So often the answer will be, but I love her. And then the conversation stops there. And I'm always like, okay, great. You love her. And how is loving her going to fit in again with your goals, with your commitments, with your moral code? Great. That's awesome that you love her. And now what? Because you are an adult and you are responsible for your choices now.
Well, I'm going to think about Mrs. Jones's spreadsheet because there's not a column for another person on there. When we do our five-year and 10-year plan out, it's just the two of us. So thinking ahead a little bit and the discipline to say, wait a minute, okay, if it's love or not, we can debate that. And you do have a choice, but what does that mean? What does that mean for next month or six months from now? These are like adult thoughts that I think sometimes we lose sight of when we're caught up. Right.
Again, because those feelings can feel so real, we just get, I don't want to say stuck in the realness of those feelings, but it's almost like The feelings are so real and they're so big that it's like the adult brain, it goes offline. And we think because we feel it so big, it must be bigger or more important. I'll share something personal here. So I, about four years ago, went on a date with somebody. We were doing some play and some dating separately.
and like right away I was like oh this guy like I knew it was just swarming me up from from step one and so I hung out with him two or three more times and then I had a we were going on a family vacation so I had about 10 days with my family and I could not stop thinking about this guy And I was just, instead of just losing myself in the feeling, I mean, I literally, I'm such a nerd. I went in the bathroom and looked myself in the mirror and had this conversation. I'm not kidding.
And I just was like, okay, if I continue down this road, if I let myself, if I already feel this much after seeing this guy three times what is it gonna be like in three months a year three years what's it gonna be like I'm probably gonna fall in love with this person like I am swarmed fuck up and it feels great and then what and so I had to look at myself in the mirror and acknowledge that I was inviting heartache if I decided to let myself fall in love with this person yes I feel this now what do I do with it love again is a verb and an action if I put my energy toward this person and put it toward the potential of loving this person what is that going to look like and I'm a realist and I'm like the chances of me ending up with two these two amazing men on either side of me in the nursing home, not very likely.
Okay. And so if I decide to love this person, I'm inviting heartache. And probably what it would be is we have this, we fall in love and we have a great relationship, but that relationship maybe would take too much energy away from my marriage or my parenting or my business or whatever. We don't really know our capacity until we're in it, right? And so I'm like, I have to accept the fact that I may not have the capacity to stay in a relationship with this person that I love to keep the commitments and the goals that I have with my family and my marriage.
And so I had to decide, am I willing to accept heartbreak before I even officially fall in love? And I was. And I had and have a lot of faith in the strength of my character to face that because it's also been so much good and so much growth and so many AFOLs, another fucking opportunity to learn. But it's been all that. And I know that I will do the hard thing if and when I need to do it. Yeah. And how hard is heartbreak? Really? I mean, it feels, you know, debilitating. Oh, yeah. But we also know that it's temporary. Yep. And eventually, you know, we're going to get through it.
Now, I would actually go back back katherine and say the ability that you had to walk into the bathroom and make yourself look in the mirror was a very adult thing to do because i think a lot of people might just say well i'm i'm going to keep my head in the sand yeah because this feels really good and i might see my spouse over there moping around a little bit or hurt, but I'm going to ignore that because this other thing feels so good and they love me and we have a good relationship. So I'm just going to abuse that a little bit. Yeah, it'll be fine. It'll be fine.
And I could start putting excuse after excuse after excuse because I've not gone to look in the mirror. Or when I do look in the mirror, it scares me and I can't have that conversation. Absolutely. So yeah, so then it's easy to blame our partner for moping. Oh, they're insecure. Oh, they can't handle it. Oh, they need to work out their childhood shit because we don't want to have to look at that. Or when you look in the mirror, you don't like what you see. I think I'm going to make a stiff drink. You know, there are all sorts of ways to avoid that.
And I guess for me, I've always been that type of person that I really love to live in optimism and Polly, not Amory, I mean, yes, but Polly Anna as well. And in order to do that, it's funny, this is the topic for my presentation just a minute ago, like using boundaries so that we can be responsibly irresponsible.
Because honestly, most of us, if we're able to come to this kind of event, we are successful, we've done all the adulting, we are probably perfectionists, we're overly responsible in so many areas of our lives that it's really nice to be able to let our hair down and be irresponsible. And so for me, I needed to look at myself in the mirror and do that hard work, setting the boundaries, knowing what the worst case scenario is going to be preparing myself for it, because then it let me and it has let me really enjoy the heck out of it. I can be responsibly irresponsible to enjoy all the things.
But I know myself, I wouldn't have been able to enjoy this if I hadn't looked myself in the mirror and set those boundaries for myself. So continuing to use the mirror as an illustration, let's talk about the rearview mirror, because, you know, there have been times where we know people who have been caught up in something and then a week or two or three goes by. And then all of a sudden you're like, wow, I was really a jerk. I can't believe I said that. And the adult in me, my emotions are waning and I'm furthering myself from the event or the person.
And I'm thinking that was really a dumb thing to say or a dumb thing to do. So I'm looking in the mirror, but it's not before. But it also is a reflection of, okay, I'm an adult now. I got to make this right. And then I can self-correct, but it still may take me some time to get there. So how realistic is it that all of us in the moment are going to act like adults and catch ourselves? It's unlikely. Nope. Nope. Right? Nope.
But that rear view mirror i love the or keeping with the mirror the that kind of retroactive self-awareness and so you know in my practice we teach a lot of mindfulness techniques meditation yoga even just i remember one time i gave uh this man an assignment because i kept asking what he wanted he's't even know what you're asking me. And I was like, okay, I want you to set an alarm for five times a day. And when it goes off, I just want you to close your eyes for 30 seconds and think about how you're feeling and what you want. And if your answer is hungry, I want a Snickers. Great.
We have created mindfulness, folks. We have just created mindfulness. You are mindful that you're hungry and that you want a Snickers. And, but but most of us are not taught those skills most of us don't have much of a sense of mindfulness or an observer self where we can kind of observe ourselves going through something and so when we aren't mindful our best chance is to have retroactive self-awareness the rearview mirror and thank goodness at least the people who can do that who can, I was a jerk, and then go back and make amends, good on them.
And then I'll also say, the more you work on mindfulness, the more you might be able to have the chance to notice it in the moment. You say something jerk-like, and then you're like, I'm sorry, that was awful. Or you blame somebody, and you're like, actually, I'm mad at myself, and I just blamed you in the moment. Or maybe you can be a super nerd like me and you kind of predict what might happen and then you're looking ahead.
But let's still give some big kudos to the people who can do it retroactively because talk about the courage and the vulnerability to eat crow and come back and say, hi, it's me. I'm the problem. It's me. Sorry. I have a 14 year old. So Taylor Swift there. Shout out. Oh, I didn't get the reference, but I'm proud of myself. Some people did.
Well, and I think this is where your partner might come into play with the retroactiveness too, because they, they, because you have a partner in this, most of us, um, you have a wingman and maybe they're seeing things clearly because you're the one that's caught up in whatever you're caught up in. And so in your experience, though, when is the right time for the partner to say, hey, dummy, do you realize you behaved this way? Do you realize you need to do the apology to her? So you do have somebody that could potentially hold you accountable. Do you see that happen? Yes.
And the way that it doesn't work well is when you go to your partner and say, you're being ridiculous. No one ever in their whole life gets less ridiculous in the moment when it's pointed out they're being ridiculous, right? And so I think that when you say when is the appropriate time, one of our favorite little alliterations is connect before you correct. And so if Mrs.
Jones noticed that you are swarmed up and you're acting like a jerk and she comes in and just says you're swarmed up and you're acting like a jerk go apologize probably not going to work well if she's got her lid fully fully on and she can come to you and say i see you i see you like really in the moment i see that you were hurt by that rejection i know you were really excited about tonight and that woman was really focused on Bob instead of you. I bet that hurt. Yeah, I can't believe she's such a bitch. I mean, you would never talk like that, Mr. Jones, but let's just pretend.
And so she's connecting with your feelings. She is seeing you from that position that no one else in the whole world has. She knows you other than being outside of your skin. No one knows you better than her. And so she has this unique position that she can see you and connect with where you are. Once you feel seen, and you feel connected to her, you are so much more open to the correction or the redirection. I know that really hurt. Yeah. Do you think she meant it? Well, no. I mean, I know her and she hasn't seen Bob in a year and we live down the street, so I get it. Yeah.
Well, you know, how do you think she's feeling right now? God, I was such a jerk. I should probably go apologize to her. That way Mrs. Jones doesn't have to tell you what to do at all. You've come up with it on your own and she's just giving you a good pat on the back and like Godspeed to go do it. And I imagine at the same time, the spouse might be feeling, oh my gosh, this is my worst nightmare. And so they may be afraid to say something. They may be afraid to look in the mirror or pause that person because maybe I don't want to hear what I think I'm going to hear. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
There's all sorts of that fear that keeps us from looking at situations as clearly as we could or being as adult as we could. And while a lot of people then come to us, a coach or a therapist, and it's a little bit of a funky situation, though, because often when people are in that kind of stalemate of, no, I'm just feeling this. when I think you're feeling this and they want us to come and referee or be the judge and jury and tell them who's right and they're always disappointed when we won't do that because that's not our job.
Our job back to the mirrors is to hold up mirrors and to say, here's what I think I'm seeing. How does that land for you? I think I'm seeing this. How does that resonate with you? And holding up those mirrors for you all to start to see yourselves more clearly and see each other more clearly and more compassionately. I guess what I'm hearing is that it really comes down to making choices, like catching feelings. That's going to happen. What you do with it is the choice. Bingo.
You know, and waking up with a partner for almost, you know, every day for almost 40 years now, you know, loving you is a choice. Now, luckily for us, it's an easy choice most days, but it's a choice. And I just really feel like sometimes we get so caught up in these other things, we forget that truly it's simple.
It's not easy, but but it's simple you just make the choice and then you figure out how to do that gracefully yes and you do that over and over and over that's what I'm talking about you said it so beautifully when I say love is a verb like anybody can fall in love good for you you want a freaking medal for it it's like the easiest thing ever what you do with it and then you know when we fell in love. Good for you. You want a freaking medal for it. It's like the easiest thing ever. What you do with it.
And then, you know, when we fell in love with the person, our partners and we chose them, if that, like, that's, what's so annoying about rom-coms. It's all this stuff leading up to the wedding day and then it's happily ever after. No. That's when it starts. That's when every day you actively choose to love someone. It's interesting. My boyfriend was like, what do you mean by that? Like when you, like I hear you say that and it sounds good, but like, what does that mean? And I'm like, like every day I look at you and I look at my husband and I look at what I value.
And I'm like, gosh, he looks hot in that shirt. Or wow, I love his muscles there. Wow, I really appreciate this thing he does for me. I really appreciate this unique thing that he does for me. And it's this active looking for and continuing to choose that person and choosing to love them, even when it's hard. Choosing to be the big person. When you've got your lid on and you want to roll your eyes at how ridiculous they're being, not telling them they're so ridiculous and choosing to connect before you correct. So yeah, it is not easy, but it is simple. Choosing. So well said.
And speaking of choices, every major, even every large choice that we've been together for a long time, and we make these choices together.
I mean, yes, I mean, there's life things that I choose to do for myself, but you sometimes need every decision we make, whether it's buying something, a car or moving or any big decisions, we're talking about it together and we're talking about it in advance of when it happens so if i'm now have to choose to if i have these feelings for somebody it's really not up to me as the only person to make the choice i have somebody else to consider it needs to be a part of this decision and i think again uh i go back to you know being a we're human. That's how we're wired, right?
It's easier to just come up with, well, I deserve this because, or well, I'm going to be careful, or well, you know, I'll give myself all the excuses that I, or justifications for my decision. But really, if I were to stop and think about it, it's like, why do I have to keep justifying this decision? Or why am I defensive about it? Yeah, because I'm pretty sure if I was having this conversation with my wife right now, I'd know exactly what she would be saying. And so I may even avoid trying to verbalize it because I'm afraid I already know what somebody's going to say about this.
And it isn't what I want to hear. Right. Well, another way to think of it, you know, I'm always going to bring Brene Brown. I don't think we've had a single podcast episode where I haven't mentioned my best friend, Brene Brown. She doesn't know me, but we still are totally best friends. We would be, I feel sure. She talks about the difference between shame and guilt and embarrassment and humiliation. It's fascinating to dissect those. But the guilt one is when you have behaved in a way that is outside your own moral code, and you feel guilty about it. You're a good person that did a bad thing.
You're a good person that stepped out of bounds. And guilt is actually one of the best motivators for behavior change, because it feels icky. But we also realize it's within our control. I can do something about it. I can go and make an apology or I can I can rectify the situation or I can come up with a plan to make sure I never do that again. And so the reason I'm bringing this up is realizing that we all have our own moral code and it is our job to stay in integrity and stay within that moral code.
So when I looked in the mirror, my moral code included meeting my commitments to my husband, to my family, to my daughter, to my life, my business. And so I needed to say, like, you're going to be challenged here, Catherine. You are going to be challenged by your attraction, by your feelings, by the swarm up of a new relationship to step out of those. And don't forget how shitty it's going to feel if you do. Stay in line, girl. And so we each have our own code of ethics, moral code. And then we create one together as a couple. And so, you know, we got a thing.
What if the thing is actually getting really clear about what your code your what your moral code as a couple is and what works and what doesn't and you're going to step out of it you're going to feel icky and yucky and guilty and you're never going to do that again but you keep coming back together to what are your goals what is your commitment what is your moral code together well and i think it it gets frustrating when my moral code doesn't align with mr jones's moral code.
As far as our overall value systems go, I think we're, we're very much together on that, but I see things in the moment differently than you do. And I think a lot of times that creates strife because I mean, I'm to a fault, very black and white, you know, like you just did the workshop on boundaries. That's so easy for me. You put them in place and you stick with them. Easy. What did they talk about for an hour? Yeah.
And we also, the whole aspect of not wanting to hurt somebody's feelings comes up and we tend to abuse the person that we're closest to sometimes at at the expense of that in order to not make somebody else potentially feel bad yeah like take it on the she'll take it on the chin or our relationship can take it on the chin so we don't have to say the hard thing to that other couple right don't do that to your partner or your relationship. This is the most important value. Right. So I think a lot of times the challenge is to realize that you're not thinking the way other people are thinking.
You know, and then how do you do that in an adult way without compromising your own moral values or hurting your partner or offending the other people people yeah and that that's really I think where the challenge comes in and I think that's where we all screw up sure and often when the because these things are high stake and important to us it's really easy to flip our lids and be emotionally dysregulated and then we're trying to do let me just be clear. It is virtually impossible to adult in dysregulation. If your lid is flipped, you are just not in your adult brain.
And so when we say like, what is the challenge? How do we do this? Number one, do not pass go. Do not collect $200. You have to get regulated first. In the moment regulated. And sometimes the dysregulation can last for weeks because you're really swarmed up about a topic or a situation or you feel so justified or so pissed off or so defensive. And it can take a while before you are truly regulated again. Geez, you're talking to me, aren't you? I am talking to all of us. Believe me.
And it's actually interesting that something in our practice, in my business and the coaches that work with me we've all noticed this shift in the last year to 18 months we've got all these fancy tools and all these cool alliterations and all these little mantras and all that and they are wonderful the tools are great but if you're dysregulated you're going to either not pick up a tool you're going to pick up the wrong one hammer is a great tool but it is not a good tool if you need to paint that drywall behind you.
And you have to be regulated to know which tool to pick up and to have the wherefore all to pick one up in the first place. So we have all these tools, but the first thing we have to teach people is how to get regulated, how you take care of your own nervous system, how Mr. Jones takes care of his, how you co-regulate with each other. And then you start to work on these difficult, nuanced problems with creativity. You don't have access to nuance and creativity unless your lid's on. Is dysregulated the right word if you're not regulated? I want to make sure. Disregulated, unregulated.
I actually looked it up yesterday because I kept switching them and they are both grammatically correct. So we are good. Okay. So the other thing about it, going back to where you say we choose each other every day, when you know your partner is not regulated, the first thing that I have to do is realize that I don't have to take the blame for this. There's something there's something that has caused this to happen. But what I can choose to do is understand that that's where this person is. And I'm not going to take it personally. I'm going to be here and I'm going to be patient.
And whenever that regulation, re-regulation occurs, making up all kinds of words here, you know, but that's choosing to say, this is not the end of anything. This is not as bad as I think it is in my mind. It's because you have one person who's logical and regulated and one person who's not. And you, I forget the term that you used before about you can't communicate that way when you might as well be talking a different language, I think is what you've said. And so it's having the understanding that that's happening.
And then what is my responsibility or what is the partner's responsibility on that? Because you could make it worse. Oh, yeah. You know, like you said earlier, by I'm, this is what I'm, you're, you're ridiculous. You always, you always, why this, why that?
And worse oh yeah you know like you said earlier by I'm this is what I'm you're you're ridiculous you always you always why this why that and that's you know after almost 40 years I've I've almost learned that you know less than a lot myself well and I think it's it's the when you said choosing and you were giving more specifics about what you're choosing but if we come back to I'm choosing love you, there's so many ways that we can love.
When you see our partner struggling, when we see our partner dysregulated, one of the ways we can choose to love them is to do everything we can to stay regulated. So because if you're regulated, because you two are so aligned, your nervous systems are so aligned, if you stay regulated, eventually it will pull her nervous system toward regulation, right? And another little alliteration I love is you can be right or you can be relational.
And so if you want to get into, you're dysregulated, you're being ridiculous, and like you need to be right about it, then you are sacrificing your relationship. Now, it doesn't mean like, oh, well, I'll just roll over and never have a need or a boundary so that I can be relational. It's not that. But if you get locked into right or wrong, that tells you that Amy G. Dala is driving the train because she is the black and white, right or wrong, fight or flight. And so if you feel the need to be right, you're not doing any favors for your relationship.
I use a very, very similar saying in my profession, and that is, do you want to be right or do you want to be effective? Yes. Because so many people, at least in my area of work, their goal is, see, I'm right. It's right here. It's a policy. It's in law. I'm right. I'm right. Yeah, but it didn't matter. Didn't work. Because it didn't make a difference. So what are you really trying to accomplish here? We're trying to be effective. Or what was the term that you used? You can be right or relational. Relational. Yeah, I want to be relational. Yeah.
So I guess as we're starting to wrap up here, I just, you know, when you all wrote to me about this topic, I think I sent it maybe in bold caps and italics, my soapbox about this, which is you can't necessarily control your feelings or your thoughts, but you absolutely can control your actions. And as an adult, it's your responsibility to control your actions and make sure they're in line with your commitments and your goals and your moral code. Before we go, that about sums it up.
And as always, if we weren't in the middle of Miami and the pool wasn't inviting and we were wasting a lot of our time inside, I want to thank you again for being with us, or we could talk all afternoon. And I want to give you also a chance to talk about Expansive Connection and what's going on there. Yeah, thank you so much. So again, really at the insistence of Mr. and Mrs. Jones, I started this business as a therapist who's on my own ethically non-monogamous journey. And that was six years ago. And since have invited three other coaches and an amazing business manager.
And we are all on our own ethically non-monogamous journey. And so we come to our practice, to our teaching, to our coaching with that lived experience. And so we work with individuals and couples and Morsems and whatever constellation. We offer live group coaching opportunities because people in the lifestyle, in polyamory, in ethical non-monogamy, whatever version they do, shocker, they like to connect with other people. And there's such power in that group work.
And then we also offer self-study guided educational products so that it meets all the different kinds of price points and that sort of thing. Kelsia is running her second boundaries course. The first one was such a success. And her next one is going to start on August 22nd, 2024. And it'll be a five-week course where she teaches about the internal boundaries and external boundaries, helping people really understand why it's hard to keep them, why it's hard to set them, and then really connect with their why they need to have them so that it makes it more motivating.
So she does a little bit of teaching. She brings us other coaches in, and we share how we have fallen on our own faces with our boundaries, and then tools in ways that we've been more successful.
And then she breaks people out into groups to talk about it, and then, of course, inundates them with resources, because we are nerds, and we tend to attract nerds, and they love to listen to things, and read things, and watch things to further their education, so we've got that coming up, and like I said, all sorts of self-study on inner parts, and codependency, and communication tools, and emotional regulation. I've got some couples yoga videos on our website and all that. So you can go to expansiveconnection.com slash ENM, ethical non-monogamy.
That gets you to the spicy side of our website. We do have just the vanilla one for all of our neighbors and such. And then we're on Instagram. We post fairly often there at Expansive Connection Coaching. And I'm going to ask you, and you can find the link to Expansive Connection on our website as well. But I'm going to ask you something, Catherine, that people ask us all the time. And you said six years ago, when you first started considering this part of your practice did you have an idea of where you would be right now? Oh my God, no.
Well, remember I like, I was ran to the bushes for 18 months hiding from this idea because I was so scared of integrating this, my professional life into this fun escape part of my life. But man, it has been so rich and I, this is full-time work now. And I'm actually out and open to my family and my friends. And I put my face on Instagram now and have really embraced it. And I really can't thank you all enough for the push and the patience and the continued relationship to get these messages out to people that want to hear them. And thank you for being a part of our lives.
You've been really helpful to us and to our community. And for those of you who want some access to Expansive Connection, you all do have a very active space in our community that we're really, really happy to see our members interacting with you and your staff in there as well. She gives us credibility. You all give yourselves plenty of credibility. We just bring in the nerd and the research and all that. But we do love having that corner. It's called the Expansive Connection Coaching Corner in the community.
And if any of you that are on the fence about joining the community, give yourself a month of a wonderful gift.
And I promise it won't be just one month because you can certainly come in and get a lot of resources from us in the coaching corner and other people that realize that part of the biggest in my opinion and I think they get it too one of the biggest benefits of this journey is the growth that's available and so that's what our corner is all about but you can also pop over and get some great stuff from casual toys about how to better use your vibrator or jump into the ladies group and have a really deep discussion about a book club or learn more about BDSM or your regional there's just there are so many things I when I do get clients from other sources that are not part of your community I'm always like why not try it out you'll.
You'll find something somewhere, some connection, some education, some inspiration, because you all have just done such a beautiful job cultivating that community. Well, and what's fun about your space is that people answer each other's questions. Oh, yes. You know, it isn't like they write into you and they have to wait to hear back from you. And there's just so many thoughtful conversation.
And it's because so we all have different experiences so you can always bring something fresh to the conversation yeah and people are so vulnerable and they're they'll share their vulnerable experience and then that'll get another person saying wow I wasn't sure I could share that here but here's my story oh wow I didn't know and to piggyback on that the vulnerability there and then the biggest gift is then you don't feel alone. Even if you're putting like some pretty serious stuff out there, which they do, they don't feel alone. They feel supported. They feel heard. They feel validated.
They feel, oh my gosh, me too. That's, that's priceless. I think that's a good point because isn't that really what happens with all of these incidences we were talking about in this topic is when you get yourself into a pickle, you feel very alone oh yeah even from your partner because you're trying to figure it out in your head first and that's a lonely task it is and then think about that from evolutionary point of view if you feel alone and on an island your brain is going to freak out because if that were actually true that you were alone on an island, your chance of survival is nil.
And so if we somehow isolate or exclude ourselves, silo ourselves, and we feel alone, we are going to be at our worst because we are very quickly going to get dysregulated. And so having a community where you feel accepted and like you're not the only one, let's just say that that is a tool for staying regulated okay well thanks for everything katherine thank you and uh let's get out to the pool and enjoy the rest of pcap could i get one of you to put some sunscreen on my back i will and my boobs they got a little burned yesterday okay you take the back i'll. I'll take the boob.
That's not fair. Hey, I have two of them. She's got two. Good point. All right, as long as I don't, do I have to sign some sort of disclaimer that we're not doing business together? That's right, at least for the next five minutes. By the way, you're fired for the rest of the weekend. All right, well, thanks again. Let's go have some fun. Thank you. All right. Well, we are back. And I would say I hope you learned something from that conversation. But I just know that you must have learned something from that conversation.
You can always take a little nugget away from what Catherine has to share. It wasn't just Catherine, because you had a couple little nuggets in there. You know, you always sound so surprised when I say this. I'm trying to give you some props. Okay, what was it? It's simple, but it's not easy. Oh, yeah, I did and, uh, you always have a choice. Yeah. I think you were, uh, I can attribute those comments to you. Yeah. I mean, a lot of, and, and I think I talked about this when we were talking with her, like I am, I am very, very much a rule follower. So things are very black and white for me.
If you have a rule, you don't break it. And that's simple. That doesn't mean it's easy. It's very hard and frustrating to navigate that so that you're not, you know, you're doing the best thing for yourself and your partner, depending on what the situation is. Right. But to me the the decision I should make is simple maybe that's what I should say right I know what the right decision is carrying that out is not easy right yeah yeah it's unpredictable you know people say they're not going to experience jealousy people say they're not going to develop feelings for other people.
And I would say that if you're in this for any period of time, and I'm not saying this to scare people, but it's just the reality of what you're dealing with. And, you know, if you're in this for any period of time, you're going to run into a situation where you're going to be triggered or your lid is going to flip. And like Catherine said, we can't help how we feel, but we can certainly help how we react.
And I think talking about this ahead of time gives you a little bit of preemptive opportunity to figure out how you would respond if something like something untoward happens right so it doesn't completely hit you out of left field you know you might have that oh shit moment like oh well here it is we talked about the possibility of this happening someday and now right all of a sudden we're in the middle of it yeah and just for um to be completely transparent there have been times that people have come to us and apologized for things that have happened and there have been times where we have circled back with people and apologized for things that happen but you know this is again this is not about being perfect but when situations like this do occur and the damage is there, it's how we handle that that makes us adult.
And I'm not being unreal. I don't want to be unrealistic and think that people are always going to behave like adults. But after the fact, when you have time to read your lid to get back down and think about it and talk about it, that you can eventually get to an adult place and then handle it like an adult. Well, the examples you just gave were like, you know, couple to couple, like when when there's an issue with another couple, but it's also partner to partner. Yes.
You know, sometimes you have to circle back to the partner and be the adult because at the end of the day, you know, your partner doesn't want to hurt you. either they're just unaware or too caught up in the hormones of the moment to realize that maybe they've sped ahead and left you behind, you know, or, or vice versa. I don't know, but you know, so it, this is all situations. It's, it's hard to keep this, you know, as an adult activity where everybody's being reasonable and logical. And, and really, I think the key to success is trying to put yourself in other people's shoes. Yeah.
And, and also know that something may happen that normally would not flip your lid, but if you've had a rough week or a rough few months or your kids have done something or your job isn't going well or there's a family issue or there's a health issue all of those things that go on in real life also may make you more susceptible right it just piles on yeah it just piles on so it's just one more thing so hopefully yeah hopefully you learned something hopefully um you know you got some tools to take away to to talk about this yep we want to thank everyone we we announced last month that we just released our new app and we had our best month ever for yeah new people joining our community just wow thank you all it's it's been great It's something that we were hoping for.
We were a little bit nervous when we made this investment, hoping that it wouldn't scare people away. I know. So we want to thank everyone who's joined us since we launched on May 1st, and we're excited to be able to grow. Yep. And thank all the leaders in our community. They're just doing a stand-up job of making people feel included and keeping things running smoothly. I mean, there's a river trip going on this weekend in Kansas City. There's a meet and greet that's being planned in Charleston. There's a more exclusive event that's being planned for Atlanta.
So, you know, we talk about what we personally are doing, but also our community is just very active at planning events too, and we're excited to see that. Yep. So we'd love for you to join us. You can find more information about us and our community on our website, wegotathing.com, W-E-G-O-T-T-A-T-H-I-N-G.com. You can contact us on our website or you can email me at mrjones, m-r-j-o-n-e-s, at wegotathing.com. Or me at mrsjones at wegotathing.com. You can follow us on X and you can also try SDC or Cassidy from our website with free trial periods for those.
I think that's all we need to say because following Catherine is a pretty tough job. Yes. So I think we should just let everybody sign off and kind of absorb what she shared with us. Yeah. So let's do some laundry and start packing and go to desire. All right. All right. Thanks for listening we are mr and mrs jones and we got a thing what's your thing We'll see you next time.
