Inside ENM Matchmaking with Victoria Joseph

Transcript

Speaker1: This podcast is intended for adult audiences. Over the age of 18, it contains adult language and situations. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to us, and not of any employer, organization, committee, or other group or individuals. This podcast is not intended to be taken as professional advice. Welcome to the Swing Nation Podcast, a podcast by swingers for swingers, where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions associated with our lifestyle. Come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe. Interview the experts, learn and grow together. Join the nation. Hey there, pineapple people and welcome to the swing nation podcast. We are your host, Northern guy and Southern girl. And today we have a special episode for you. We got Victoria Joseph with us. She's a certified matchmaker and she specializes in finding non-monogamous couple pairings. She's the founder of birds of a feather, a matchmaking boutiques, a boutique service. that caters to ethically non-monogamous, open, poly, and swinger lifestyle relationships. She helps both singles and couples find people and connect. And you also do some stuff with single men and helping their confidence and things like that? Yes. Did I nail all that, Victoria? I kind of cut down the notes you sent me, but I think I got it. It was good for the most part. It's primarily singles who want to be in open relationships, but I also do some couples with not as Not as much. Oh, interesting. So you specialize in singles that are looking to find somebody else that's non-monogamous. Yes. And then if they're partnered or poly, then I also am creating something special for people who are partnered. Yeah. Okay. But you have worked with couples that are just looking for other couples too, or? Yes. So I get a lot of inquiries for couples who are seeking other couples, people who are partnered, who are poly, looking for other people who are partnered in poly. And so one of the things that I am creating with birds of feather matchmaking is something that I'm calling the nest, which is basically people who want a more who want a matchmaking experience that are coupled can maybe find connections within my nest that I can find compatibility with that in that kind of way. Interesting. Yeah, that's what I mean, those are that we probably we get single men a lot that will email us and be like, I'm looking for a wife that wants to be a swinger or whatever. We do get that. Yeah, but we do get a lot of couples that are just like, we are struggling to make connections like yeah we message a couple and we show up for a day and then they don't show up or they don't look like their picture yeah so we get a lot so many things struggling so i think there's there's definitely a market out that they're dan and i met in the last so we were both non-monogamous and met on a swinger website and we've had people say like how do i do that yeah how do i sign my lacy it was just like we got lucky because neither one of us were really looking for anything and we just kind of stumbled upon each other but i can definitely see if you're a single person like trying to navigate like tinder or like any of those like traditional like dating websites and then you meet somebody and you get to know them and you're like oh by the way i want to be non-monogamous it's got to be like a hard hard thing to do it is yeah people are pretty hesitant to meet organically or meet people and then they're wondering like when can i bring this up or there's definitely like ways to navigate um bringing up the conversation because people are really hesitant and then as soon as like you may be on date three or four and then you find out that they are a hard no on or they're not as open-minded as they thought then it was a waste of time effort energy all that kind of stuff so having someone like me vet all that out ahead of time um helps people um save that emotional bandwidth for sure all right all right so let's start the way we like to start um every lifestyle conversation we have is Tell us a little bit about yourself. So you're married. You're monogamous. You're non-monogamous. Yeah. Where do you live? All that. I want to know everything about you. So my profile personally is that I have been non-monogamous with my husband for about 10 years. And I would say in the swinging lifestyle for about eight, specifically in 2017. And I always, I first heard the term about swinging when I was in high school. And I always thought that was amazing. Like you could have a normal happy marriage and you could still have sex with other people. Like, yeah, that sounds great. And in high school, too, I was vicarious. So I always had that like in the back of my mind. And fast forward to meeting my husband. He had he was already very open minded. I was further inspired through a platform called Tumblr, which is like a beautiful social media platform where there's like really tasteful pictures and gifts and videos and stories. And it just like it really did it for me. And so. Tumblr is like the old Reddit, isn't it? I would, yeah, I would say it's pretty similar to Reddit. People really share all their, it's anonymous and people do share their thoughts and feelings and opinions on certain. I haven't seen Tumblr in a while, but I do remember when it was popular. Yeah. They stopped making it sexy. And so then people are just like, this is. That's what happened. That's why I went to Reddit probably. And yeah. So when I had brought the conversation up to him, he was like, yeah, Sounds great. And him and I were both in the military. That's where we met. We met when we were in Japan. And we were long distance for six months. And during that time, to help pass the time, we wrote eroticas to each other back and forth, pretending that we were in these situations that were, like, really sexy. And, yeah, because, like, early on in our connection, we did have my first threesome with a woman, which was fun. And, yeah, fast forward, we wrote eroticas. And we were together, I think, monogamously for about a year or so, maybe. a year and a half and then when we moved to san diego that is where we really launched and the way we got into it and this is kind of like what i also recommend for new people to have like a similar journey to us is that we first i don't know how i discovered fetlife but then i went on fetlife went to a muncher meetup and i went to a poly meetup and the people were nice but not quite for us but it was a great way to network like where to go what to do like what's the thing um we actually met another couple there that were also more swinger lifestyle versus poly um so we We actually made plans to go to a swinger club called Thad's in San Diego later on but we also went to like a rope time shibari meetup also wasn't quite for us and we're like where are the swingers so we went to our first swinger club at Thad's and then we're like oh yeah these are our people and yeah ever since then we've gone to clubs and house parties the way we like to be is full like under the same roof if it's like a house party we're comfortable at under the same roof you know we'll do things separately but typically our favorite situation is to be a full swap group play And, you know, various threesome scenarios. I, you know, I like to be creative and switchy, or we just kind of go where the wind takes us. We just have like, we just like to have a lot of fun. And yeah, so that's a little bit about us. We've been together for also a little over 10 years. And now we live near Chicago. And there is a couple of, we're definitely here to build like community. So one thing that I've actually created, because I felt inspired through my own and personal journey was I now create social events here in the Chicago area so I do like non-monogamous speed dating events for individuals so it's like one-on-one I do couples a couple speed dating also do a thing called E&M social club which is for anyone who's curious to experience a non-monogamy and girl only events so one that we have coming up is like girls only speed dating or did a gallon E&M galentines and stuff like that and then I got into matchmaking because like the way that progressed was I was in the military got my MBA wanted to start my own business and then the idea of matchmaking came to me this was when we'd been together. I think we were in the lifestyle around like five years or so at this point. And the idea of matchmaking came to me because I was already kind of organically matchmaking anyways. Like whenever there was a single guy or girl and I was like, oh my God, you guys would totally hit it off. Or couples to couples, like you guys would like each other. And it was the best feeling to be like so intuitive on who would connect well with each other. And after, yeah, so we were honeymooning in Iceland and the screenshot was going on. and it was really well received. And so I looked into seeing if there were matchmakers doing non-monogamous matchmaking and there were none to my surprise. So I was like, oh, well, I would love to be the first one. And so I talked to a bunch of matchmakers after the honeymoon. They're like, we need someone like you because there's no one like you who is doing this. And so then that's when I got certified. And then I started Birds of Feather Matchmaking in the beginning of 2023. And ever since then, just been growing and planting seeds. and building a really luxurious style of matching with people who are non-monogamous. And now I'm part of a really in-depth collective of matchmakers who are now inclusive of matchmaking, inclusive of the LGBTQ community, and people who are also traditional. So our matchmaking platform is open to everybody to hopefully make some matches. And there's like a compatibility measurements. And on top of that, we also are, we do one-on-one vetting and background checks. And it's just very thorough. And yeah, I love it. So no, I think that's amazing. Yeah. So it's so funny. You know, me and Lacey started on this journey. It was like COVID 2020. You know, Lacey started in OnlyFans. And it was like, Oh, how can we advertise OnlyFans? And we're like, Oh, we'll go on TikTok and start talking about being swingers, having no idea like the Pandora's box that we were about to open. And at that time, like, nobody, like there was no I mean, there was like three people on TikTok that were talking about swinging like total, right? And so it blew up really quick. And it's always been this kind of underground thing, right? And like you're saying, you know, the websites, some of them are okay. Some of them suck. They're terrible. But you're like trying to connect with people. A lot of these parties are kind of, you know, rough or suck. You know, there's some good ones, but you got to find them. You know, you overanalyze, you overthink, you know, you want to pre-plan everything. So it almost is worse because they're not great and it's hard because you're so new. this is amazing to see something like this where you're curating a community and doing it, you know, providing a need for people at like a high-end level, you know, like. Exactly. Like a more of an upscale feel. Right. Yeah. That hasn't, I don't think existed in this space up until, you might be the first one ever, like what you're saying, you know. Especially like with a couple and you want to have sex with another couple for the first time. You don't just want to like go, you, you want to like find the right one. you can trust that you don't have to worry they're not going to try to steal your spouse that you know they've been tested then you don't want like just to like walk into a club and hope you find that is is can be hard yeah i think the old way of doing it was kind of underground back alley you know behind closed doors ways of doing it so having a service where that can cater to you and knows what your needs wants and desires and can try to align that with somebody else that's looking for the same thing i think i think that's really cool. I've heard of people, like, because they don't know how to, they don't know that these services are off of, I've heard of people, like, going to Vegas and getting... Hiring escorts and stuff. Hiring escorts because, like, it's controlled, you know, they can pick exactly what they want. So, this, I think, is a better alternative for that. Definitely. Yeah, and being able to compare what people are looking for and make alignments on various things, including even core values. sometimes people want similar politics or maybe some people do want to connect with someone who has the same like religion or want certain hobbies and interests and they have like the same like long-term goals or they want the same things yeah it's really nice to just have all that information in there and say yeah um i found someone for you who was like this or if it's a fresh search then it's essentially executive executive recruiting for their love life and yeah being able to um yeah take it away from there and save time and yeah have another person evaluate compatibility and explain to, like, present to them, like, why you think there's, like, compatibility and gauging. And then interesting, too, with, like, the lifestyle is when it comes to attraction is a lot of people, and I think you would agree, is, like, our portfolio of preferences is quite diverse because we found our person, typically. Or otherwise, if you're, if you had experience being non-monogamous and then, you know, you find yourself single, where you're, like, well, I made lots of connections with all sorts of people. So I feel like a lot of traditional monogamous people are so specific about their preferences and their type that they will be so closed off to connections, even if there's compatibility. But the nice thing about non-monogamous people is like, there's a lot, there's a lot of flexibility, we really just want to vibe with someone, we want to connect with them, we want to have good banter, we want the important things more than the superficial things, which is nice. Of course, attraction is important, but I think we care about personality more, or... talking about that, and you can maybe even touch on this a little bit, and something we always say is that I think people that are new to the lifestyle, and they're approaching making connections with non-monogamous people, in the beginning, you almost treat it like you used to treat traditional dating, like you're looking for that guy or girl that, like you're saying, that there's a strong attraction to, that you have a lot of mutual interest, you know, you're looking for somebody that you would probably think about taking home to mom and dad, and dating and marrying, right? Like, that's just how you've been taught to think about dating is looking for somebody that you want a long-term relationship. But once you can kind of flip your brain and be like, wait a minute, I don't want a long-term relationship. I really don't care what this person's financial situation is or I really don't care what, you know, X, Y, and Z is because I'm just here for a positive experience, right? I don't need all the foundation that you need in a traditional monogamous relationship or in a primary relationship. And so once you kind of realize that it opens up the amount of connections I think that you'd be open to. And I found that I've had like pretty amazing sex with people that at first glance, I probably wouldn't have been traditionally drawn to. But if I just kind of allow myself to get to know them for who they are, and less about like the outward appearance, I've had some pretty fucking amazing times with those type of people. Definitely same. Yeah, and I think that's what people struggle with. I think people go into this in the beginning and they're trying to find that like Mr. Right or Mrs. Right like you were when you were dating in the traditional sense and that can you know it was really hard to find Lacey you know what I mean so trying to find it you know trying to find another Lacey that then Lacey also isn't threatened by or doesn't you know and also has a connection with and feel safe with I mean that's almost impossible you know what I mean so you kind of almost have to open up your bubble a little bit to make connections I would agree with that Yes. You got started in matchmaking because you were just doing it with your friends and that then you're like, yeah, yeah. Between doing it or yeah, just realizing I was doing it organically and connecting people gave me such like an adrenaline boost. And I was like, so invested in like how their date went and how the sex was between them and like all these things. And then when I fast forward and I didn't even really occur to me to, oh, actually, no, I take that back because I used, I did, um, watch, um, millionaire matchmaker growing up. with my mom but um it didn't occur to me like you make it a career for my own and yeah when I just saw matchmakers you know recruiting online I was like wait a second that was like my aha moment and I was like I've already been doing this and I already love the idea everything about matchmaking just like really lights me up um there's a term called ikigai that always stuck with me and it's like a combination of oh gosh um I want to be more I want to be a specific of what the ikigai means because it is really good for people to just like keep in mind so it's what you love is a combination of a few things it's what you love what the world needs what you're good at and what you can be paid for and so realizing i could do non-monogamous matchmaking was like my aha moment for my ikigai and i just been running with it ever since and it still brings me a lot of um a lot of joy to be this person and facilitate connections whether it is through me or through my events or through parties or anything like that I just want good people to meet other good people and so that way there's longevity in the lifestyle it normalizes non-monogamy it gives people confidence to then become public knowing that they have support systems and it's really just the starting point of something really big because I know like non-monogamy is going to be the next thing that's kind of like a boom or it's going to be like not as taboo not so scary and there's going to be just more people out there that are less scared to be open and be their authentic selves because I know a lot of people I would say most people in the lifestyle live double and maybe they would like to live in a world where they don't have to and they can be open and see who else they could connect with or help and help marriages and lighten things up or gosh there's just so many things if everyone could just be open honest and with their wants needs and desires there'd be less cheating in the world and I'm sure you guys probably hear it a lot too like people are like oh you're not monogamous so you just want to cheat like no there's open communication that's honesty and the world would be a better place if everyone was openly about it because there would be less cheating because you wouldn't have to hide it because there would be people who are open to it or at least you gave your partner the option to opt in or opt out of this situation of being open or not you know so yeah let's talk a little bit about the going public thing so you started connecting friends and then you're like oh man i could do this matchmaking thing right so now you're looking at starting your own business and then i'm assuming if you're starting your own business doing matchmaking for non-monogamous people you kind of have to open up about being a non-monogamous person and you're also putting your face out there yeah well i guess what were you out before you started this or did this kind of push you to that no we were definitely private and not out about this kind of stuff at the time that the business idea came to fruition and that was definitely part of the conversation that we had when i was like do you think we could do this and my husband ryan he's like the most supportive husband i'm so lucky to have him he's like yeah let's go for it So that meant we had to be public. I mean, it makes sense. If I'm going to be a matchmaker for non-monogamous people, they want to have a connection with me. They want to know that I know what I'm talking about, especially when it comes to the kink world, too. Although, if I had to compare lifestyle versus kink, I'm definitely more lifestyle, but I'm very educated and in tune and have experience in the kink world, too. I think most swingers are a little kinky. Yeah, exactly. There's various degrees of it, but I think we're all a little kinky. Yeah, mainly. Yeah, yeah. And so yeah, I just knew it. And I wanted to be public and be out there because I want more people to be in. I want more people to be in a lifestyle, I guess. I want to inspire people. It is. It feels like a very powerful position to be in because I'm all out there. There's nothing that I can say or do that's going to alter my life because it's already out there. Yeah, it's great. Although being in the military, you're not allowed to be non-monogamous if you're I don't know if we talked about this but I was in the army for 21 years and I retired and this podcast kind of took off like the last year when I was getting ready to retire and I was oh my gosh again we had no idea what we were doing and when Lacey's TikTok started to blow up it was like then the podcast started to blow up and it was like oh my gosh were you you know luckily I already had a retirement packet in but I was it was that last were you a little bit worried I was scared it was worried people like claim that they turned him in like yeah because this as our stuff started blowing up And we shouldn't have to be scared. You know, it's all ethical. But yeah, so we wanted to be public. And he was okay with that. And so fast forward to me starting the business, making my LLC and all that. I talked to my parents. I'm like, hey, I'm starting a matchmaking business. I'm specializing in ethically non-monogamous relationships. And, you know, the funny thing is that initially my parents were trying to educate me on lifestyle things. So my dad was like, oh, There's this thing called a unicorn. It's a mystical beast that doesn't exist. And I'm like, oh, that's crazy. You know? And then my mom was like, oh, there's a site called FetLife that I heard of. And I was like, oh, I'll have to go check it out. Like, it was a very, like, slow burn. Because eventually, I think they started to be like, oh, wait, she's probably in it. And so then it kind of opened up my parents to share a little bit more about there. So to my surprise, my parents have also had experiences within the lifestyle so and I had a feeling my dad was because he would have like t-shirts in his closet that said it's not cheating if my wife is or it's not cheating if my husband's watching and like I know what that means we're like um he has he would have like bear statues like bonded or like he would have like um yeah she bondage around these bears so like he would have things like out in the open and I grew up luckily for me I grew up in a non-sex shaming household it's not like we talked about it or like really were like really getting into nitty-gritty but it was never like Shameful, which I think helped. I didn't grow up religious, which I think helped. And then, yeah, fast forward a little bit. My mom shared with me that she got into it because her vanilla friends invited her to go on a nudist cruise. And so then she got a boyfriend. And then I think she just started exploring our, yeah, the lifestyle a bit more. She even brought my business cards into the Swinger Clubs in Arizona. Oh, we love a good mom. Yeah, my parents are super supportive. And so if your parents are supportive, my siblings are supportive, like I have like, I'm in a really healthy and really good position to be doing what I'm doing. We're lucky because we're in a similar boat where our parents and even our kids and stuff are all pretty supportive of us. But we have friends that, you know, come from very religious families and stuff that have been like excommunicated from their families because. She really appreciate like how open and loved we are seeing friends go through very different things. situations for sure. Yeah. Um, we've also had lots of friends that find out that their parents are in the lifestyle. I mean, I could think of multiple friends. It's not uncommon, um, to be honest. And I think that's important what you said about the shirt, because I think a lot of people think they're hiding it from their kids and stuff. Kids see everything. So that pineapple tumbler in your, in your, uh, yeah. Kids go through everything. They, I mean, I can't remember when I was I looked through everything of my parents when they were gone so if you are in the lifestyle and you're trying to keep it from your kids just know they're watching yeah they might they might know if you have stuff like that out and about for sure or they'll connect the dots later on yeah and yeah I have all these costumes in the middle of the year yeah themed parties my actually it's funny my son said that he's like why are all the parties you have a costume I said baby swingers love a theme. It's Halloween, you're right. Yeah, we always gotta have a theme. He was like, oh, okay. I guess that's actually a good question I have for you guys. I don't know if you shared it with your listeners before, but how did your kids find out or how did that conversation go? So my son found out from school. Okay, so let me back up. He knew that I had went pretty viral on the internet, so we never kept that from him. We just didn't say what it was. We just didn't say what it was. was we are sex positive and we support all types of relationships whether that be two mommies two daddies three mommies two mommies and one daddy you know whatever we support our relationship and he knew we had a podcast and honestly he was in like sixth grade and to me that was very age appropriate for him of course he went to school and one one kid had a pretty young mom who probably wasn't make the best decisions that mom told my son that we were I picked him up from school and he got the car and immediately said that Dan was still active duty military at the time so I called him it was like a Friday I was like get your ass home I need help and so he came home and it was honestly kind of hard but like how do you explain that to somebody that's in sixth grade you know like outside of what we had the hardest part about it is that him having to go to school and deal with kids and stuff like that like that was definitely I don't think he thought any different I think he loved us and it was more of the like what he was getting at school and now that's been you know six ish years i would say five six years from now and um we're in a much healthier better place now and he's he's happy and content and fine i'm sure he'd rather his mom not be on the internet i mean he's like any teenager it didn't matter if i was just dancing or whatever bombs on the internet is embarrassing um dan's kids one found it you want to tell you want to tell that story yeah my daughter My son actually didn't know for a long time and we ended up telling him but she at first she's kind of weirded out by it same kind of stuff like it very quickly became because my daughter saw me as like a conservative military like stick in the mud you know kind of guy and she's a very much like she's bisexual and she you know she she's pretty like a free spirit so I think it kind of opened her up to like oh maybe dad isn't such a like hard-nosed like right edge kind of guy you know and uh so it ended up being really good i think we're we're closer for that um my son seems like he doesn't really care he was more like surprised how many followers we had on tiktok it really was about us being swingers like the kids really are like you have how many folks like they think people like come to pay attention to you like they don't understand that mom and dad are kind of cool they don't that's probably been the biggest thing but now i I feel like we're in really good it's been it took years I mean it was hard but it took years yeah I feel like when it comes to becoming public about this kind of stuff what I did is I gradually did it like I didn't just go full on posting it everywhere I kind of just did what was like what I was comfortable with so like I kept my Facebook like just regular I didn't have like business accounts but then eventually I did have a business account or I did have it be public or not private anymore anything like that so I just for those those who do want to become a little bit public just do little bits of crumbs you know you don't have to go full out first video like out in lingerie just do whatever makes you comfortable even that starts with like a public lacy's third tiktok went 11 million views so we her third tiktok went 11 million so we we we did the opposite we ripped the band-aid off real quick it was awful would you have if you could go back do you think you would like have a a slower yeah i mean i think if i had to go back i would like for it to be different but the truth is i don't know that I was brave enough to be like, I'm a swinger. I'm proud. But the truth is, I think I was scared. And so ripping the band day to get to that point. There's a lot of guts. You feel confident. I live in, in the same town I was born in, like I'm born and raised, lived here my whole life. Yeah. In the deep South, you know? So I think a lot of people just from where, if I lived in a town that I didn't know anybody I would give two shits. I'm like, fuck all of y'all. But because I do kind, I do care, you know, it's taken some, like a lot of work to get. Now I'm totally fine. Now I'm okay. Um, but it was definitely a hard pill to swallow for me. Dan was still active duty. He was actually deployed when things went viral. So I was very much alone. Yeah. He was, you know, a 12 hour call disc, you know, so he's sleeping when I'm awake. So it was, I felt very alone. It was a very hard time. Um, but now like in hindsight, I'm glad it happened and I'm, it all worked itself out. It always works out. And now it's like, I can't imagine having to hide that piece of me. I feel like for the first time ever in my whole life, I'm like seen for who I am. And if you don't like me for my true authentic self, then okay. You know, I'd rather somebody not like me for, for me than like, than like me. or a false character that I've created. So, you know, it's definitely been a journey for me. Dan doesn't, I don't think Dan really cared that he was out it. He didn't. I was worried about being able to retire, but I could give him two shits less what people think of me. Definitely two different journeys for us. But I'm happy where we've ended here. So I'm doing it now. Eventually you stop caring what people think or like, what's the core? It's like those who, and those who matter don't matter. People ask me, they're like, have you lost friends? Have you? The truth is nobody just comes up to you in public and be like, I think you're a bad person. People don't do that. No one says anything in person. Nobody says anything in person. You know, they find, like, we don't find a lot of people talk to us at, like, school events or something like that. They kind of keep their distance and that's okay. You know, it is what it is. Yeah. Is your husband able to be public too? does he still have to be a little more discreet oh yeah no he's he's as public as me i mean it's probably more public because i talk more but um yeah no he's like his what's hard to be in a safe place to be able to do that you know you most people that we know that are able to be public own their own business or entrepreneurs or you know something like that so uh it i think for a lot of people they're just not in a place in their life where they can be public yeah and for those who can't be public that's i guess like to circle back to like matchmaking is that that's kind of like the privacy barrier that I can provide for people who are not who don't want to be who don't want to have their faces on apps and we all know like to have more successful connections through websites and apps like you have I mean you it's ideal to show your face and if you don't show your face then it's like a longer vetting system and having like a good profile having all these things are super important which is also something that I like to do is just like helping people with their online profiles and emphasizing the importance of that yeah that's a bit I have a side track to what we're talking about, but that's... No, but I think it's important. You're right. Because a lot of people that cannot be public, they will make a profile, but then it doesn't have a face picture. So then you have to like get to know somebody before you share it. And then if you share, finally share a picture after you've been talking for two days and you're not... Attracted. Attracted to that person. You've just wasted, you know, two days. So for people that are in like a more sensitive, because I know like some people are teachers and pastors and like if their face gets shown on a your website that they could lose everything and so hiring someone like you to kind of help them through this is probably like a smarter way to do it then then just throw in something up and hoping that nobody recognizes yeah all right well i think now is the perfect time to take a little break and hear from the partners and sponsors of the swing nation podcast and then when we get back i do want to go a little bit through some of that so like if somebody comes to you they're new they're either a single or a couple and they're looking for to make matches I kind of want you to get some like just generic advice that maybe that you can help with some of these people that are out there struggling with that. So we'll talk about that on the backside of the break. We'll be right back, guys. Lacey, if you're going to be a swinger. Yeah. You need to be a responsible swinger. I agree. And part of being a responsible swinger is getting tested on a regular basis. Yeah. Now, something I didn't know is. not all STI STD testing is the same that is correct not every family doctor fully understands how you should be getting tested that is correct what one doctor thinks is a full panel another doctor may have a completely different version of that and being somebody in the lifestyle and engaging with multiple partners what you should be getting tested for is probably if you're not telling your doctor that what you should be getting tested for is probably different than what they're thinking in their head. Yeah, because they don't know your lifestyle. Or even if they do know your lifestyle, there's a like, for instance, there is a new one called MGen. And we just recently met a doctor at a lifestyle party and said that she had never even heard about it. And so she was awesome that we had educated her on that. So a lot of these doctors don't, they don't know it all. Right. So if you are going to participate in the lifestyle, you probably need to get tested from people that are meant to do it. this. So we use I Know My Status. It's the same people behind Talent Testing. It's a company that tests all the porn stars. So they're used to testing people that engage with multiple partners. They know all the latest on what STIs are coming up and spreading. And they track all the stats. I mean, they know how to test people for STIs. They're the experts. They are. And if someone that you engage with, you know, if they have used I Know My Status, they can actually give you a QR code and you can scan it and you can see their results right on your phone so you can confirm everything that they're telling you. Yeah, 100%. So please, if you're getting tested, get tested the right way. We recommend using I Know My Status. You can go to theswingnation.info, recommended apps and products, scroll down to the I Know My Status icon and you can get a discount off your first test. But please, if you're being, if you're swinging, if you're engaging with people in the community, please be safe about it. Go get tested. Yeah. Because we want you to fuck like a porn star. For sure. Dan, if someone is just recently joining the lifestyle and they don't really know where to begin, what do you recommend? Well, the lifestyle, you know, is 2025. And people are on the internet. They are. And there just so happens to be lifestyle websites that are dedicated to people connecting in the lifestyle. Yes. SDC happens to be one of our favorites. Over 3 million users. your area you can find clubs you can find parties all of it is right on SDC and you can get a huge discount by signing up with us you can so all you got to do is if you're looking for lifestyle people in your area if you're looking for the clubs if you're looking for the parties go to the swing nation dot info recommended apps and products scroll down to the SDC icon we'll give you a free trial yeah you can check them out you can see who's in your area you can see if it's if it's the app for you all completely risk-free yes So just head on over to the swing nation. Info and get signed up for STC today. Lacey, one thing I don't leave home without when going to a swinger event is my ED medication. That is correct. Performance anxiety is 100% a real thing. Having sex in an orgy room with 100 people in there is way different than having sex at home in your bedroom. It is. So I like to have what we call a little insurance policy. and have some of that ED medication in my pocket. Shameless Care is who I use for that. And they actually just came out with a new product called the Shameless Duo. Yeah. Which is a combination medicine that has Viagra and Cialis in it. So that one, you can be ready whenever. But also it's got that dose that you can take when you're, you know, as you're getting ready to go to the playroom. And you need that to kick in. Yeah. So I love it. I mean, I used it at Hedo for the first time. And that combination. You've kind of pretty much switched to that. That's basically what I use all the time now. So if you're looking for ED medication, if you're new to the lifestyle and you're going to an event, you might want to get some and have it just handy in case you need it. And the really cool thing about Shameless Care is they don't set you up on a reoccurring plan. So you're not going to get all of this ED medication that you have in your nightstand built up. When it's time that you need more, you'll get an email from them and they'll ask you, hey, are you ready for another round? and you can respond back. Yes, please refill it or no, I'm good right now. Thank you. So it's really cool because you don't end up with all these extra pills and spend a bunch of money that you're not, you know, you don't need to spend. Yeah. And my favorite part is you don't actually have to go into an office and talk to your family doctor or a military doctor. You can do it all right online from the privacy of your home. You just go to the website, you fill out some forms, the doctor reviews it, approves you, disapproves you, and you move on from there. you can go to the swing nation dot info click on the little recommended apps and products scroll down to the shameless care icon click on that and that's going to take you over there there's some discount codes there for you so you can get a discount off your first order but i highly recommend if you're going to some events or parties go get you some lifestyle insurance all right guys check it out all right guys welcome back welcome back thank you for listening to our sponsors are sponsors. I do. Okay. So we're here with Victoria. She's kind of gave us her, she's, we've got to know her a little bit. She's, she's told us her life story and her journey, non-monogamous matchmaking. And so now I want to get into the meat and potatoes of how this works, Victoria. So when these singles that are looking for a partner, that's non-monogamous or even couples that are trying to connect with other couples that are non-monogamous and maybe they're struggling, right? Maybe they're on some of those major websites. out there and they have just been um not successful it's with as many of us are on those websites uh and so they've they've heard you on the podcast or they found your website or something and they come to you so what what do you do for them what kind of walk me through how this works yeah so the way to get in touch with me there's a few different routes right you heard about me um and the first thing to do is to go to my website for the feather matchmaking.com and there's going to be two different options Is there one, I'm ready for a match, or to join my registry? And always, I recommend to join my registry because it takes you on a journey, basically, to really get to know you, your core values, things that are important to you. And what I like about it, too, is at the very end, there is a video, like a self-recorded video interview that you can do, so we can really get, like, a vibe check. So it's kind of like, what do you think of this application? Tell me about yourself, or kind of an exact I forgot what the exact question is but something along those lines and so then I review those profiles and if I think and if you mark that you are interested in matchmaking then I will reach out and I will invite a invite you to join me on a virtual meeting where I can really get to know you more your preferences what you're looking for what your struggles are and then we talk for usually about an hour give or take and if I feel like there is because when it comes to matchmaking with me I am very exclusive. I only take on clients that I'm super excited about, that I do feel like I can help, that are matchable, all those kind of things. And then so we talk. And then from there, I take them or invite them to do a love clarity session where I talk for two more hours, where that is history, that is family history, that is relationship history, that is lore, that is, you know, your non-monogamous history, kink history, like all these things. I really need to get to know you. And then from there, if there's still alignment with being matched by me, then that's when I will create a proposal. And that's when I would invite you to be my matchmaking client. I have optional NDAs and contracts assigned and expectations. And it's very in-depth about working with me because I work with them or with clients for six months. I used to do a pay-per-match option. And now I'm kind of switching it to what I'm going to be calling the nest, which I think I mentioned earlier. which will probably be more for those who are already partnered um so my matchmaking it it's just very all situational if i feel like i can match for you i definitely will um so yeah then basically we get you ready for the dating market in a private kind of way we figure out like how public are you or how comfortable are you with your information being shared and really creating a place of comfort and um how much visibility they're okay with um we do we do redo profiles we have photo shoots depending on the packages offered. There could be image consulting. I could do a house call. So I will fly out to clients, spend a half a day with them and see their home and if there's any rooms for improvement. So the way I matchmake is very holistic. I try to find areas of improvement or like, you know, trying to avoid anyone giving the ick essentially. And yeah, so then I will matchmake for three or sorry for six months. And depending on the packages, It will range between a minimum of three to eight guaranteed matches. And if I can't find that many matches, I'll extend the contact at no extra cost. And yes, pretty much it is a presentation about why I think you're compatible with this couple or this person. And then it's up to them to go on the date. And then one thing that I do for an extra layer of privacy is that I don't exchange contacts until they both mutually agree that they would like to move forward. So if I present a match and they're like, yeah, this person sounds great. And when it comes to clients, I'm presenting them people who have already said yes to them. Like they have interest, they do want to meet my client. And then all my client has to do is say yes. And then from there, we'll plan a date, whether it's in person, ideally, or there's different logistics that can be involved. An easy one, if it's long distance, it can be a zoom, or we coordinate, you know, sponsoring a weekend or the client will travel like there's just ways but ideally, we wanted them to meet in person gauge chemistry that way. And then if it goes well, they take the connection from there. And if it doesn't, we get feedback. So after the dates as well, I get feedback from the client and the match and see if there's any room for improvement or people maybe repeating the same thing. So it's like, it's definitely a journey that everyone goes on when it comes to matchmaking that areas and they never even thought of or more introspection on themselves and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, essentially executive recruiting for someone's love life. It's very thoughtful, very intentional, high quality matches, great people. I even like to think like I care so much about my clients. I'm like, there's days I might cross paths with you. Like, I want to make sure that you're going to be prepared to be in those spaces and that you are a good representation of the lifestyle or non-monogamy and all that. I love that. And I would imagine, you know, we hear all the time, like, we know a lot of couples that are like, looking for like a quality single male, right? And that can be a hard, you know, people, they joke that, oh, yeah, single males are everywhere out there. But we know tons of couples that are like, you know, we've spent months on these dating sites and all these dudes and they ghost us and they don't show up and then they can't get when they do show up they don't get hard like you know i mean so it's like and then the opposite every couple wants to find a quality single female to hook up with you know i mean so i would imagine a matchmaking service like this could be you know couples to couples singles to singles singles to couples like there's just it's such a larger dynamic than what you would have in just typical monogamous matchmaking absolutely yeah you brought up the long distance because especially if you're a couple and you're like looking for someone to like hook up with for lack of a better word but you want to find like a quality couple and like maybe you try you know if you you want to travel with them a few times a year or something like that this is so you could almost like you could match them and then you could plan to meet like at a swinger let's all go on the bliss cruise let's go let's go together you know so it doesn't necessarily have to be somebody right down the road it could be somebody lives in another state but you know Because we actually, you know, we get Tuesday Talk questions where people write in and ask. One of the questions we had this week was, how do you find, like, your core couples? Like, how do you find, like, a little community? And before we ever had the podcast or anything, Dan was always like, we need to find, like, four or five couples that we really like that we just travel together. You know, we go, like, the Secrets, you know, once a year. We go to Hedo once a year. You know, whatever the part, you know, we go to certain clubs. And so this is almost you could find sort of kind of like curating that. People who want the same thing. Yeah. And I think this is like a good way to do that. Absolutely. And I have gotten couples that want to have like that are open to long distance and meeting other couples if they're compatible because they want like the ideal dream is to be able to go on vacations and share these experiences with other people. Let's go have a beach weekend and play on the beach and fuck all day. Totally like travel for a quality couple. that like if you're both into that like yeah you know the same like kind of you're looking for the same I would much rather like drive a couple hours or fly somewhere than like hook up with someone in your town that's like mediocre you know I'd rather have like a really good experience especially somebody that's newer and that has never done this it's kind of like you're their big sister or like you're helping them kind of get there yeah so when people ask you How do you build your community? What is usually your answer? Because I have ideas or suggestions to feel that way. Ours has kind of happened organically. So we're not, you know, in the beginning, I think we were afraid to have emotion. You know, we were like, we were, we are monogamous. And I think as we got stronger as a couple and got more comfortable in the lifestyle, we allowed some of those walls to organically just kind of start falling down. where, you know, we would, you know, before we used to use like kick and like all of these like things where you can't. Now we just give you our phone number. If we don't like you, we'll just block you or not respond. It's not that big of a deal. But like we got started to get to know people and we started sharing our contact information. And then if we knew we were going somewhere, we were like, hey guys, we're going here. Do y'all want to go with us? So we kind of like would show up to a party or we already had like a few couples kind of built in that were going with us. So, like, the party could be amazing, and we could find new people to join us, or it could be like a dud, but then we still have our couple of couples. So, it kind of just organically happened like that, and the truth is, not all couples can go to everything. So, like, we would just invite everybody, and then, like, some would show up, and then some wouldn't, but then those couples would come to the next one. So, it's, like, kind of a revolving door of, like, a handful of really good quality couples that we've sort of, And I think we all kind of do it. Not even intentionally. We just, if we're going to be somewhere, we want our friends to be there. You know, so we just kind of like, hey, we're going to this. Y'all should come. We'd love for y'all to come. And then some people come, some people don't. And that's, you know, that's how we built our community prior to the podcast and social media. And now you add the podcast and social media, it's just like, put that on steroids, right? So now it's like, we just put on social media, we're going to be somewhere and a ton of people show up and, you know, make them up and they'll talk. to us and if we vibe with people it's like oh yeah here's our friends this is our friend that's our friend you know we got to go throw this party but hang out with them for a while and then later in the night we'll circle back and you know and like checking with our friends and be like so what do you think of the new couple and they'll be like oh they're fucking awesome like okay well are we orgy in tonight do you want to invite them like yeah you know like that's kind of how we grow our community now because we don't necessarily have the time to do one-on-one so we kind of just like introduce people to our friends and let them vet them a lot of times but yeah to see friends that we we met like before the podcast or even through this journey then meet friends that so like we've kind of introduced all of these people and then they've kind of branched on off and made their own little groups and so it's like all kind of very much happen organically and it's it's really fun it's like for me i'm sure you can relate to this it's very rewarding to then see these relationships kind of like it's not really it's a friendship i guess maybe not relationship but like whatever you want to call it kind of blossom and they get closed and we'll meet a couple on bliss cruise and we'll be like oh you guys got to come to secrets with us right and so then they'll come to secrets and then we have our friends that always come to every secrets and we'll be like oh yeah this is this couple that we met on bliss cruise they're awesome now they'll hang out and then we'll see them they'll be at the beach like you know a month later hanging out just together the two of them and it's like that's awesome yeah you know what i call all this i call it slutty networking i love that that is exactly what it is and so people come to us and ask that a lot and it's sort of very much organically how it's not yeah did we want a group of friends that we could travel with yes but like it's sort of kind of all happened organically and we try very hard to keep in touch with everybody we're because we are so busy we're not the the best at like texting a bunch of people but like if we know you're gonna be somewhere or we know we're coming to your area we definitely try to like reach out and yeah so for those who don't want to use a matchmaking service but they're trying to matchmake for themselves i I have similar I have like pretty much the same advice so I had to start we had to create our own community two different times because we used to live in San Diego and then we now live here near Chicago and we moved here in Chicago March 2020 so literally a couple weeks before the pandemic hit and so we actually during that year we just kind of took a beat but we did network we you know we were on field and we're like hey like what does everyone like to do where are they going and then we found out that there was a swinger club 15 minutes 15 to 20 minutes from our house. And I was like, perfect. And it's called a young couples party. So everyone's 42 and under. So we're like, even more perfect. We like coincidentally got a house in a gray area for all that. But basically, yeah, both times of how Ryan and I started our community was we would just go to in person events, we found communities and we just kept showing up. And we would then like get contacts, we'd exchange and make plans. So when you go to in person things, you have to keep momentum going, you have to have plans you want to try to meet them at a party again you want to maybe want to do double dates or you want to do like game nights um in san diego that's kind of like what happened we would go to different clubs and we're like oh this was like a fun couple that we actually um later learned that there were more compatible with than us than we thought so like there was this one couple that we were into like we thought that they were poly and so at the time we thought poly meant that they were closed when we were new um and then we came out then we learned that they actually swingers and they literally have like gang or they have um yeah DP parties on Wednesdays sometimes and so they already kind of had a community so if you can meet someone who maybe is more established in the area who already has friends like I'm people like people who like to host we're like yeah we want our friends to be have more friends and we want to get good people together it seems like on the west coast they're all poly like all the swingers say they're poly then you'll talk to them and they'll like it's like they don't like the word swinger they'll say like oh we're polyamorous but we're in a primary relationship and we go to play parties with other Yeah, people define themselves all sorts of ways. That's a swinger. That's not like... But it is funny. Yeah, people are all the above. That's why I... When it comes to describing open poly and swinger relationships, I really have it really down to a very simple sentence of like the differences. Like open relationships is you're open to doing things separately. You might go on dates separately. But like, have you ever seen that one diagram where it shows all the non-monogamous relationship types? Like the bubble thing where there's like... and then oh yeah it's crazy yep yep so the open relationship is like the biggest one because yeah that's the easiest way to describe it poly is intimate loving relationship and connections and then you know lifestyles like sexual experiences but people can be all the above and they figure out like well i think the truth is most of us are different levels of all of those what we've learned is you just need to ask them what does that mean to you if they say we're swingers okay what does that mean to you that might mean the wife displays or we met we met one time a girl one time that said she was a hot wife but then come to find out her husband played and we were like well she's like well i'm hot like yes you are and you are a wife that's what i thought i'm like yeah so i think you have to like you have to ask more questions you can't just assume because somebody said like for instance if somebody says they're poly you have to ask what does that mean to you because that's the biggest buzzword you know what does that mean to you yeah for sure and then i agree i think building community That's the thing is you've got to go to these parties and events and meet people. For us, we've really stopped going on one-on-one dates because we just don't have the time. It's such a commitment that if it's a dud, it's just such a waste. When we meet couples online and couples reach out, we're like, we're going to be here this weekend. We're going to be at this party. We're going to be at this club. Come hang out with us. If we vibe, cool. If not, we'll hang out with our other friends. We are the same way. We have a big community with lots of friends. we really don't have capacity for double dates or to meet like new people that way we always say like let's meet at an event that way you can do a vibe check there and then if it if you hit it off wonderful and if not your whole evening's not wasted they don't even have to show up life goes on it's totally yeah you can't get ghosted if you don't show up it's fine you have fun yeah and so yeah but i think a lot of new people are like oh we don't want to do group stuff yeah we don't want to be seen like this and it's like okay well then that's kind of you realize you're on a different experience level and you're like okay well i'll maybe catch in a year or two when you don't have these these preconceived notions. We are very much group play people. We will do like if like we really want to connect with a couple like if it's been a while and we haven't had time or. And it's mostly like if we want to connect with a couple and they're not group play people. Yeah sometimes we'll split off. If we want to connect with a couple and they're group play we'll get them in the group but if they're like not group play people sometimes we'll break away. 100% of the time we are group play people. And I really encourage you that are listening to this is to if you can be in a group and not have sex with everyone like you are allowed to say no thank you you are allowed to have a voice you it is not a free-for-all and i think a lot of like i think a lot of newer people think shy away from it because they don't want to tell someone no i care about my body way more than i care about somebody else's feelings yeah i'm gonna try to be as kind and sweet and treat those people the way that i want to be treated but you can totally do that and yeah you can go into a group situation and just hook up with the one person that you're you can only fuck your partner if that's what you want and just fuck your partner just have sex with your partner yeah or you can just like use your hands in the mix without being you know sometimes she'll bring a wand and she'll just sit in the corner she'd be like i'm a little wore out you know it's the end of a bliss cruise week or something she's like well i don't feel like fucking anybody but i'm gonna bring my wand and i'll watch y'all have fun like yeah exactly yeah there's no pressure like and yeah there shouldn't be any assumptions i mean it is nice when everyone likes each other but that's not always the case And you can always say like, hey, I'm tired, you know, try to let your partner like get, you know, their wiggles out. And they're like, okay, let's, you know, time to hit the hay, like, when it comes to like, energy levels and whatnot. But yeah, so I would say if you don't have community in your area, like if you go to a couple parties, and it's not your vibe, you know, a lot of people that we know that have event groups and parties, they started it because they couldn't find one that fit them, you know, I mean, they went to a couple in their area, and they're like man this isn't our vibe this isn't our vibe and so they just started hosting their own meet and greets at a bar and that turned it and then it turned into a hotel and then that turned into a you know they just get grow and grow and grow if you're in an area that doesn't have a community i almost would guarantee you that there's a need for that community in that area yeah and um another way to make friends or community um is to go to like hotel takeovers or go to hito or find podcasters or community that you really jive with and then just keep going to their events because people are going to keep showing up to their events and if you like someone then you can make your own plans with them and meeting at um you know out of town events shows people like to travel and that's probably what you want to do and it just shows different things that you're interested in and you want to be in groups and you want to meet lots of people and you want to be social so all these things that you have in common you're already there because you're part of this community and then there's branding with different communities and like age ranges and you know just got to find that group and then just keep showing up and um or Or you can, another strategy too, is if you are meeting people off the field, for example, one thing that my husband and I did, we kind of like divided and conquered a little bit. Like there was a time where he was talking to a couple and I was talking to a couple, but again, didn't really have capacity for like one-on-one double dates. I actually propositioned a group date and they were both down. And so then I went and coordinated a, we did kayaking in the Chicago river and we're still friends with both these couples years later. So, and, you know, doing things like that really It really shows personality. It really shows what kind of couple they are. And it just takes a lot of time. So building community does take, I would say, a year or so to really find your people, find your core group, unless you really hit it off and you really get launched into a friend group, which is the best case scenario. And I try to do that with people who I think would jive with my friend group. But yeah, host things. You can even do cutesy things. If your house is not orgy ready, people still love to do craft nights. They love to do game nights. They love to do wine tastings. to do activities with other people like of course we love doing it with our partner and loving dates but it's just like it creates a whole new dynamic to do with new people and groups and you can really just get to know people and that's kind of what i'm doing all that stuff is so much yeah all that stuff is so much more fun when like somebody might whip their boobs out or something too you know i mean like it's a whole different you go in the bathroom you take pictures together or like you take your underwear off and you hand it to your husband's like we can just do like cheeky stuff like that that no one knows about but it takes a little bit of to find your friend group, but it's so worth it. It's so worth the effort. And for those who don't have it, you know, that's why we're trying to normalize non-monogamy. We're trying to find more cool people to, um, for you to all to connect with. And it just takes time, but it's worth the wait. No, that's awesome, Victoria. Uh, all right. So is there anything else we haven't talked about that you really want to share with the swing nation community? I think we covered a lot, you know, relationships with family and friends and lovers and relationships. Um, I think I already said that, but yeah, if anyone, resonated with me and what I said or has interest in matchmaking. I can be reached various different ways. E&M Matchmaker on pretty much all social platforms or birds of a feather matchmaking.com. Yeah, I try to be really good about that. If you're single, highly recommend joining my registry that can be linked through my website. And yeah, I'm here to help. I'm here to be a resource. I'm that's like, yeah, that's what that's how it starts getting in touch with me. Oh, sorry. Can you explain real quick what the registry is versus, I know you said you felt like you said something else. So can you explain? Yeah. So the registry is another thing I like to call is like the dating database. That's kind of where it's like the application journey to then be in my network. Okay. So like they're not hiring you to match. So if somebody hires you as a client, you might connect them with somebody in your registry if you think it's a match. Correct. Yes. Yeah. Joining our registry is complimentary. And then if anyone is interested in matchmaking, that's actually one of the questions on there and then i will get notified that you are interested in matchmaking and we take it from there but if you're not interested in matchmaking then you are um open to being potentially matched with clients and um kind of going from there and if you're in the chicago area come to my in-person events um i host those on eventbrite and yeah how do they and i will be going oh and i'm going to the swing nation uh take over next week so i was going to mention that so victoria is actually going to be at secrets for our next Takeover here in April. With Juan Deepa. So that's how we connected with you, just for people to know. Yeah, shout out to Juan Deepa. And his beautiful wife. So that's exciting. Yeah, and she's actually going to help us with the speed dating and some of the matchmaking games that we do on Thursday night. Yeah. And then she's looking to get more involved. And she'll probably, you know, maybe we'll see her at some more events in the future. And she can really help us up our game on that. Because, you know, we tell people all the time, Especially at Secrets. To me, the Thursday night is one of the most important nights of the entire weekend. Yeah, that's where you plant all the seeds. Exactly, that's it. Planting those seeds for the weekend. You are never going to end up in an orgy if you don't talk to somebody. If you don't get to know people. We've had people come to our events and they write us emails after they leave. They're like, we didn't meet a single person. It's like, what did you do? Where were you? If you just hide it in your room for the whole weekend, that's not going to happen. I think people have this Misunderstanding that if you go to a swingers party, there's just an orgy and you just walk in and jump in. And that's how it happens. Yeah, I know it takes effort. It takes conversation. It takes asking questions. And definitely icebreakers, speed dating, all that stuff. Like it might sound like cheesy. Do it because that's where it starts. It starts with one conversation. And hopefully have lots of conversations. And then you have lots of fun experiences throughout the weekend. But a lot of people who are experienced in the lifestyle, like it's more than just looks. It's more than just being grabbed out of part, like in the random orgy. Like, what's your name? Like, want to get to know you just a little bit at least some of us um so definitely go to those social events um i know i will obviously and then yeah definitely got to participate and help facilitate if they want i think and honestly even if you don't want to fuck the people that you meet in these it's nice to like we're talking about community somebody can be in your little community that you don't actively fuck you know like and like i've talked about this before we've done we kind of a few years ago made ourselves do a lot of things like on bliss cruise like speed stuff. It's been years. If I walk by those couples that we met, I'm like, hey. You're making friends. It's so fun to walk into a room and know someone. Even if you're not actively wanting to sleep with these people, it's nice to know a familiar face. I think those people, even though you only had a one-minute conversation with them, if you were in an uncomfortable situation in the club, you know them now. They're watching out for you. It's building that community. The most important thing about being successful in this space is making connections and participating in those, you know, meet and greets and matchmaking games and speed dating. That's that's how you if you don't do that, you're never going to get to the orgies and the fun times. Yeah, I always tell people to like everyone wants to be approached, but no one wants to approach. So just put yourself out there, break the eyes. You know, we're all there to connect. So try to, you know, get in on a conversation that you can, you know, add to or just just go in there with like a random question or there's just ways to spark it and it just takes that one little like in and then it gets things talking it gets things going and you know i guess a little tip too for people is that people don't like to talk about themselves but they like to be asked about themselves so if you don't know what to talk about just ask questions about themselves and you might notice that they might not ask questions about you and i think a lot of like a little bit of a habit people might have like oh let me ask like what's your like where do you where are you from what do you like to do so ideally try to have some back and forth they need to know each other and also picking up on social cues like if they are acting a little bit flirty or if they're being kind of quiet they're trying like it's an art and i know it takes a little bit of time and experience to pick up on those kind of cues but ultimately everyone's open to having a conversation even with people that they don't like so just come up with some topics and things that you want to talk about that prompt stories you probably watch this show because you're a matchmaker me and lacy are obsessed with the love literally love on a spectrum oh my god i just i just got done watching love on the spectrum It's the best. And it's so funny because I thought of it because it's what you said. It's like, that's what they tell them to do is when they go on these dates to ask, you know, what's your favorite color? What kind of food do you like? What kind of movies do you like? Try to find commonalities. And then that's exactly what they do. And it's so precious. Like, yes, because it can be kind of hard to try to carry a conversation with someone they have nothing in common with. So just keep trying to figure out what you have in common with. And then you can just write off that. Yeah. So you can definitely take it. Yeah. For those who haven't seen Love on the Spectrum, I would recommend. It's so good. It's a good show. It's so good. Yeah. All right. Well, we appreciate you, Victoria. We look forward to seeing you here in like just over, I think it's like nine days away or something. Yeah, I'm so excited. And you'll be helping us out doing the matchmaking. Yeah. Okay, we'll see you. All right. And I think with that, in a world full of apples. Be the pineapple. Be the pineapple, guys. Bye. If you want to see more of our content, you can find links to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, OnlyFans and more in the show notes. Come join the conversation with us and other Swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server. If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingnation at gmail.com. Make sure you head on over to theswingnation.net and keep up to date on all things Swing Nation. We thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you next time. Goodbye. That's so hot.