Po-Boy from CLM

Transcript

Welcome to the Pineapple Pinup, The Hot Wife Life. On today's episode, I sit down and have a conversation with Poe Boy from Cock My Life podcast. I really enjoyed having this conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today, Poe. I really, really do appreciate it. Thank you. thank you so much for joining me today po i really really do appreciate it um everybody po from cuck my life say hi hey hi i i you know sometimes you gotta get me started talking and And I'll I'll get going. I gotcha. I gotcha. Okay. So, um, right now I am kind of going through different phases of my discovery process.

I'm going through different phases of learning about other people's journeys and all that other good stuff. Yeah. I would like to start with you with your origin story and then once we have your origin story i'd like to get into how mental health affects the lifestyle because you and i have discussed before when we i was on your podcast we discussed that there was there's been some things that you have really worked on, and I'd just like to know how that fits. And you guys recently had a guy on Dr. Leigh, David Leigh. Yes.

And he talks about how they're trying to get more clinical therapy regarding lifestyle issues. So just to give you kind of a roadmap of where I'm trying to get to. Sounds great. Okay. So let's start with your origin story. How far do you want to go back? How'd you get into the lifestyle? I mean, let's, let's not go back to your birth or anything. Right. So long story short, little old me, you know, let's not go back to your birth or anything like that. Right. So, long story short, little old me, you know, say 10 years ago or something, I had known that I was interested in kinky things.

I watched a lot of porn because I'm a guy and I think that most of us do if we're serious and honest with each other.

And I had kind of gotten to where, you know, I honed in on what we know is the cuckold fantasy kind of thing right that was kind of my jam and i'd hear you know uh podcasts kind of walked me into this by the way that's what i'm trying to get to here um you know you start out you kind of search for oh you know what's out there something you know kind of sexy because you can listen to something at work that's sexy and you don't get trouble for it you know you can't like look at porn during work but right and so uh you know eventually found like uh i think it started with probably either venus or keys and anklets one of those two um listening to them and what i learned when i heard those guys was that my impression from just watching porn was this was kind of a thing that, yeah, like people did it.

But, you know, most of it was either like professionals that were getting paid or it was like people in kind of some stinky motel room and, you know, southern Alabama with the, you know, window unit cooler and just kind of looked, you know, somewhat like the guy was, you know, the guy was way more into it than the girl and stuff. So you'd see those and you're like, I don't want to, you know, it's a sexy idea, but that's not something I want to, you know, have my missus involved in. Yeah.

But I started listening to these podcasts and there's these ladies and, and they're like, oh, no, this is amazing. This is fun. This is something we do, right? And we had, about the same period, we were kind of going through it. Like, we had previously been fairly religious people, fairly conservative, that kind of thing.

And we're going through the kind of deconstruction process is what a lot of people call it where we were just stepping away from that and kind of starting that's a good way to put it yeah um i i take it do you have some experience with that or oh yeah i grew up in a cult i grew up in a highly religious cult and okay so yeah no i'm very familiar with the shame wheel and how it can spin out of fucking control so yeah so yeah um if you got a few minutes i'll i can tell you about my time with the sex and love addicts anonymous and stuff and the shame wheel and that so there you go okay so so you're highly religious and you and your missus are trying to deconstruct that aspect of your psyche so that you can be a little freer right just in general you know but then you know you started thinking that that along that line we were people that hadn't had sex with other people until we got married and so you know we had experience with one other person and serious monogamy yeah yeah like hardcore you know we were about it and we started thinking huh and we had never you know sort of the the couple swap kind of swinger thing um just it it always felt a little a little ooky a little bit of this like you know kind of like you felt like the dudes are kind of like high-fiving each other behind their back like hey yeah i'll fuck your wife if you let me fuck you know yours or something like that you know i don't know how i said that wrong but but yeah no trust me i understand the imagery you're going for like the guy the dudes are like dude we really and then the the ladies are like i mean i guess guess this is what we're doing.

The Ice Storm, I think it was called. I don't, I'm not recognizing it, but go ahead. But it was 70s based and they did the key party thing, which apparently was some kind of an old swinger deal where you kind of picked up some keys out of it. Put your keys in the bowl. Yeah. And then, yeah, whoever you drew out of the bowl, that's who you're going home with that night. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, obviously in a dramatic movie, it goes horribly wrong and all that.

So that's, you know, sort of the impression you had, sort of the things that are bouncing around in my brain before I started listening to these podcasts where people are kind of bringing it to life.

There's women that explaining that they actually enjoy the benefits of it and it was something of a full swap or were they talking about hot wifing so i kind of honed in on the hot wifing stuff early on that that was kind of you know i would listen to i remember strictly anonymous was one of those that she would just have like all kinds of different people on and um but then i really liked sort of the hot wife um you know soccer mom by day porn star at night kind of stories and stuff that she had and they would mention cuckolding and so eventually you know i know, I'm like, I wonder if there's anything about that.

And keys and anklets and Venus. And that was I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, no, this is this is the one. Yeah, this is the thing I'm into. Gotcha. You know, and so from there, it's first it's just me getting information and learning. I'm kind of one of those that dives in. I want to know stuff and like lots of stuff. And I want to not only know like one person says, hey, this definition is this. Thank you.

I want to know stuff and like lots of stuff and certain, I want to not only know like one person says, Hey, this definition is this, but I want to know there's like four people and what their definitions of it are. Right. Try to get the researcher. I am totally that person. Yes. Gotcha. Okay. So, you know, sort of do my stuff there and, you know like, I wonder, and I'd sort of, my approach was two pronged. So it was that, learning, educating myself. And then when I eventually found some that I thought, you know, hey, I wonder if she would just give these a listen.

You know, I said, hey, this is something that's kind of, you know, grinded my gears, so to speak. Would you listen? And really scared about that because it's it's hard to kind of come out and say hey this is freaky deaky um but you know what do you think yeah it's hard to be vulnerable especially for a man and but she she gave him a listen you know she's of hot, you know, tell me more.

And, uh, so we started kind of kicking around the idea and the, you know, what would we sort of, and I think we talked about sort of boundaries as far as concerns about who knows and what, what it looks like, um, I mean, huge concerns about sort of the cat getting out of the bag and that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Because you've got to be concerned about that, especially in, like, social media and whatnot. Because it can woefully affect many, many aspects of your life if you don't pay attention. Sorry. No, you're not. So you want to hear a funny little story about that? Yeah.

I work in the legal field. And a woman had been on Facebook, and she liked one of those Mormon wives kind of shows where there's a bunch of women married to one dude. Right. some page that was sort of based on the show, but then they changed the name of it to Polyamory Society of Utah or some such. She got called into a deposition and they were asking her about and she didn't even know what they were talking about. It's like, I don't, I don't know what that, what, oh my gosh, I don't know. Is that something makeup wise? Is that, you know, and she's like, what's your like on Facebook for this?

You know? And it's just, uh, so yeah, gotta be careful about stuff like that. Yeah. Depending on the field that that you're in you absolutely have to make sure that your mute button is on in certain aspects of your life that's not really a problem for me but you know other people i mean i live in virginia so there's so many people here with security clearances who like you know yeah yeah so you've you've got to live a whole life and you can't get caught doing anything that can be blackmail worthy. So a lot of people don't a lot of people do not face lead, do not lifestyle lead their lives.

And I I get it. I understand what they're doing. And I understand that, you know, they're very compartmentalized with that stuff, which is great. I'm choosing a different path for myself, but that's because I have the freedom to. And that's the big, that's the big question. Do you have the freedom to live your life as out loud as you want to? Yeah. And I mean, I live in a, you know, red state, red area, you know, and it's, you know, we don't live as out loud as we would like to, I guess. Right? Right. Because. All right. We're going to break it down.

There's a lot of kink in those areas, but a lot of it is undercover. It's a lot of it is like shame wheel intensification stuff, you know?

It's like you're on the shame wheel and this is making it that much hotter to do this thing that i'm not supposed to be doing so i mean maybe i'm missing out no i'm just kidding interesting so okay i uh this morning i was viewing some erotic material born and uh it was gal that uh it was like uh um she was sort of like a dominatrix or something and she was exposing this you know poor naked schlub who had he'd done all these perverted things but he was also a politician and that he was attracted to this uh trans woman you know and all this and him sucking her off and stuff and i was watching it and i was it was it was like not hitting me it wasn't really like i wasn't really feeling it as far as the um you know this whole like kind of black male we're gonna expose you kind of a thing and i and i realized wow that's that sort of like that's that shame stuff that i've kind of gotten to a point where that doesn't hit that trigger as much Thank you.

And I realized, wow, that's that sort of like, that's that shame stuff that I've kind of gotten to a point where that doesn't hit that trigger as much. Exactly. When you've started to own it. Yeah. And I can just say, you know what? I was watching a video of a man sucking a trans woman's penis and, you know, sort of being forced to by a dominatrix. And I enjoyed that. It didn't have to be that it was some kind of blackmail thing. It was nice.

you know sort of being forced to by a dominatrix and i enjoyed that it didn't have to be that it was some kind of blackmail things nice you know right the setup itself wasn't necessarily your bag right yeah so you're watching so you're going through and you're doing the research and you're finding your way through your own kink. Yeah. And you're now you've introduced your wife to it and your wife is like, that's hot. So what's the next step? OK, so this is a little bit goofy, but so she was, you know, totally nervous and not really sure about any of this.

And I said, what if we try like a little thing where like we kind of role play like i'll get a couple of google phone numbers you know so we can like text each other like we're you know hey i saw your profile online and i think you're super hot kind of thing right and so we were kind of texting back and forth and flirting with each other instead of like a you know know, a coffee date meet. Because we had talked about we didn't want to just meet somebody in a hotel room or something. Right.

So we set up this little coffee date and we sat there and, you know, say for the first five minutes, we kind of were doing the role play.

And then after that, we just were like, OK, this is making me super hot both of us were super excited and um we were just like huh what would this look like can we really pull this off i guess what logistically and do we want to take a next step forward on it and did she have any um doubts about what it was you were seeking from play because it sounds like you were very into the cuck lifestyle you definitely wanted her to play did you also want to play i it was kind of i can take it or leave it honestly okay i mean that's kind of where i am now you know um yeah that's where i am Thank you.

I can take it or leave it, honestly. I mean, that's kind of where I am now, you know? Yeah, that's where I am. I wanted to take just a second to remind you that if you are experiencing or delving into your own role play, you might want to go over to privateadventures.net and take a look at what they have to aid in your endeavors. And remember to use the PineapplePinup10 code at checkout to let them know that I sent you. you're now doing role role at checkout to let them know that I sent you. So you're now doing role playing and it's going well and it's really hot. So now what's next?

So then it's like, okay, so we decide to do, and I think in our area, SDC is kind of the the big um forum for the lifestyle yeah so we do you know we kind of make a profile and put ourselves out there and do the you know do the little description of yourself and the pictures of you know no face you and that kind of thing um say what you're into even though people are going to ask you know be like way not what you're into and yeah but you know so you do it and you kind of sort through and you get a few and what we winnowed it down to is actually interesting so we had um one guy that just sort of came to us through that process and then another guy in the going through with the podcast and stuff.

I had actually reached out to a lady named Salacious Scarlet is kind of what she goes by. I don't know if you've heard of her, but she was like for a while she was doing a lot of the podcasts on the she had a cuckoldress blog and things like that. And so I had reached out to her and, you know, we'd kind of chatted and she had chatted with Mrs. D and we kind of got to know each other and talk through it. And she had recommended a guy. And so we also got in touch with him. But the first guy, the one that just reached out on the SDC was he was he kind of got to where he was texting with her.

and he he would do things like you know kind of make her uh you know go uh go in the bathroom and get like a little tissue paper and show her wetness to him and stuff like that you know it was just fun you know it's kind of fun little texting back and forth and then this was over a month or two this wasn't like a we all of a sudden decided we're going to do this right right it takes time to get there it takes time yeah yeah and then I don't know. This was over a month or two. This wasn't like a, we all of a sudden decided we're going to do this. Right. Right. It takes time to get there.

It takes time. Yeah. Yeah. And then, then we decided we were going to meet the guy. Let's just call him Joe. Cause I can't remember his name now, but so we're going to meet Joe. And it was like, he wanted to drive with us to where we were going to go. And I was at another place.

So he was just going to like meet us at that parking lot we're all going to drive together to nightclub so we kind of meet in this parking lot we all kind of meet up we're all talking and she's making the and this is one of the things that i love about the lifestyle i don't know how to describe but she does the little eye flutter thing you know and and it's like totally genuine because she's just like she's someone's attracted to her as she's attracted to you know and she just gets that it like goes over her and you can just see it like kind of transform her aura if you will right it's such a hot thing yes that moment so fast fast forward a couple minutes you know of course They're going to ride in the backseat.

I'm going Yes. So fast forward a couple of minutes. Of course, they're going to ride in the backseat. I'm going to drive. Fast forward a couple of minutes later, we're going down the road. And he's like, hey, give me your hand. What? He's like, no, it's not weird. Just reach your hand back here. So he reaches me down and lets her feel it. She's wet.

And a couple of minutes later, she's giving him a blowjob in the back seat as we're driving down the freeway very nice very nice yeah so and so that's how that's where you started are you guys are you guys still really active in the hot wife life or in the hot life scene in your area? So we still hang out a lot with some of our friends in that and the hot wife scene. And I don't think that it's like something that we're not. It's something that we're not trying not to do, but it's also something we're not like trying to do real hard right now. Just because.

How many years did you, how many years did you do it before you got to that kind of slowdown period? I think probably, like, say two and a half, three, you know. Okay. And it's kind of one of those—I think we've found it does kind of come in waves, right? Mm-hmm. And there'll be those periods when you're doing, you know, some kind of event or party every other weekend or you know, a couple of months in a row and then eventually you're just kind of like, yeah, that was a lot. I need to chill. Yeah, right. Like, I think right now my husband and I are we're in full swing.

Okay, so we are, I'm going to I went to Thank you. my husband and i are we're in full swing okay so we are i'm going to i went to a party every single weekend in august i had multiple play dates i'm applauding thank you i um i have i'm taking this coming off, but then I have two parties I'm supposed to go to the weekend after that. I'm throwing a party the weekend after that. And then I'm not quite sure about the last weekend of the month.

I'm pretty sure I've got something, but I can't remember off the top of my head, but this is the kind of like, and then I know I've got a hotel takeover coming up in December. And my husband and I are actually trying to do another one for New Year's Eve. And I'm just like, it's a lot. And I'm really, really enjoying it.

But i know that there's going to come a minute when i look at my husband and say we just need just a week just a week off well just a week off where it's just you and me and household chores for crying out loud can we get stuff accomplished because it is something that eats into your time it's not something you can just like you it's not like i do i do hot wifing on the weekend well you also have to set everything up and you have to make sure you're doing the texting and make sure you're talking to your partner and there's a lot that goes into it and so yeah i mean sometimes it's just life life be life and yeah that's a good way to put it sometimes you just got to go and do the life things because the lifestyle things can't just take over everything right so yeah and i mean but here's the thing i did take a lot of time off time off in June and July because I could not get into my, I couldn't let anybody into my home because I was never sure when contractors were going to be there.

Yeah. I was never sure when I was going to have a contractor there until nine o'clock at night.

So for me, that was a forced break break yeah and the the problem is is you so totally get to the point where you um you really are irritated by cock blocking events like by cock blocking shit that comes up you're really offended you're like you're really irritated by it but then there comes a time when you're like you know what i'm gonna do i'm gonna block the cock on my own and that just feels like a vacation right yep yeah so when you want to and you can't it's different from it's different than you don't want to and you don't when you don't want to and you're and you're taking a break and it's okay yeah yeah okay so you're now in and for three years how often are you playing for those first three years oh it was kind of like we probably were going to a party like a sex type party you know like and I say that like I differentiate because sometimes we hang out with a lot of hot wife people, but we're not really sexing, you know, we're just kind of hanging out.

It's just sort of like a munch kind of thing rather than. Yeah, yeah. Right. But, you know, we'd probably go to those like once a month, once every six weeks.

And then we were doing some, you know, some individual kind of meetups and stuff like that which were fun she had um the one guy that we met through kind of a referral from scarlet that i was telling you about he was we were kind of steady with sort of seeing him every month or two that was fun um so you know yeah we were kind of doing that for a couple years like that yeah sometimes i wonder if i'm overdoing it i don't know you'll know your body will tell you you know your body will tell me you'll be like i mean you'll be like okay I mean, you'll be like, okay, I'm done now, you know?

And, uh, so how is your wife handling?

Because if she also grew up in the ultra religious and this is the first time she's been non monogamous, non monogamous, even though it's an ethical non monogamy, is she having any blowbackback so she had a lot of like self-guilt you know we'd have like we'd kind of like a shame wheel would be a good way to put it right you know you'd go out and have a really awesome party and she'd be a couple of three guys or whatever you know and then oh my gosh what if god's gonna punish us for this you know oh no is this you know you'd say you yeah there's a sort of cycle thing and then you get us for this?

You know, oh no, is this, you know, so you, yeah, there's a sort of cycle thing. And then you get to be like, okay, you know what? I guess not. So it happened and, you know, we're okay. So, yeah. And this is, this is something that I cannot stress enough. Safe, sane, and consensual. As long as you're doing it safely, you're doing it sanely and you're doing it consensually. And consensually means not only from within yourself, Thank you. safe, sane, and consensual. As long as you're doing it safely, you're doing it sanely, and you're doing it consensually.

And consensually means not only from within yourself, but from within your partnership. Sorry, it's something that I struggled with for so long. And it hurts my heart to see somebody who's so, like, feels so guilty about something that it's so long and it hurts my heart to see somebody who's so like feel so guilty about something that didn't hurt them or anyone. It didn't hurt them or anyone. And nobody was injured by the fact that they went and did this thing.

As a matter of fact, people had a joyously good time because they went and did these things and they decided to do them together so it hurts my it hurts my being to watch people get wrapped up in the guilt because i wouldn't want that for anyone i wouldn't want anyone to feel badly for not doing anything wrong but anyway dude i i you know in the religious background i grew up and all like most of the sort of like stuff that i was in in my say teens and early twenties and stuff for guys, it was basically like how to not jerk off or how to feel bad about jerking off.

That was, I mean, 80% of what we did. It was all, you know, you know, that's what we're all worried about. Cause that was the only thing that we really did that was going to send us to hell. But that was the thing, you know. Yeah, it's it's rough. It's rough, especially when that is the indoctrination that you're going through. It's tough to find your way to your own fucking sexuality, let alone. Yeah, it's it's with somebody else. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And be able to have the conversation with somebody else about the sexuality you have yet to discover because you never got the chance because it was so loaded with shame and it was so loaded with disappointment and it was so loaded with now i'm a horrible person and so there's guilt and shame and fear and guilt and shame and fear and constantly going around in a circle so for me i i i applaud anyone who works their way through that to find what it is that they're actually interested in and going out and finding a way to get the thing that they're actually fucking interested in and going out and finding a way to get the thing that they're actually fucking interested in.

Thanks. And yeah, I mean, it's a journey that everybody needs to go on and good on you. So you're welcome. Okay.

So So, is your wife playing, is the frequency of her playing back in those early days is that based on her own version of a shame cycle is that based on the fact that she's got to go through a little bit of guilt and reconditioning or is it i i think you could definitely like you would sort of see some of that a little bit with the you know sort of we would kind of do these real active periods and then kind of fall off and i'm making a up and down hill type motion with my hand for all the people listening along but uh yeah i think you could see some of that and and then yeah i did think over time it sort of became sort of that didn't become as much of a thing good okay all right so where are you now so i'm gonna need you to drop a pin no yeah just I'm just kidding.

Where are you in your lifestyle now? Well, so she has a girlfriend now. And like, I mean, legit life type girlfriend, you know? And so a lot of times, the weekends, it's the three of us or it's of them, or, you know, that kind of thing. Okay. They spend a lot of time together, enjoy each other very much, that kind of thing.

So, and in that, when we can, we will do some pretty fun little sexy times together and so like in the weird world of how things work out you know i go into this hoping my you know i mean every guy sort of things like wouldn't it be cool to have a threesome with two women you know it's one of those as a kid you know two two chicks at the same time yeah sorry go ahead but then the way it comes out with us is that it's like um me and my wife and a um very lesbian woman and but we're all like interested in her and pleasuring her and we have some amazing little fun times when we get together so and that's that's awesome that's awesome because i will be i'll be honest with you when a guy looks at me and says i'd love to have two women at the same time i'm like but what would you do with two women at the same time I mean because let's I'm like, but what would you do with two women at the same time?

I mean, cause let's be frank. Men don't know that they're pleasuring women the way they, the way they want to. Now you add two of them in there and now all of a sudden you've got twice the amount of doubt that you're pleasuring them the way that you want to pleasure them. So I do love the fact that your, your MFFs are very one female centric because a lot of hot wife is about being very female centric and good on you boys, whoever developed this kink. Thank you. Because I don't know if you noticed this, but I kind of like being the center of attention. Really? No. Not me. Not me. Okay.

So that's amazing. And how has her connection to her girlfriend altered her relationship with you? Or has it?

uh a lot i mean it's it's because you know i don't think she loves me any less you know anything like that it's just kind of um i guess we relate differently you know we we sort of there's different oh gosh i'm trying to one thing is that our um girlfriend is very like she's super like helpful she's like the loves to do things like you know the person that's like sweeping and you're like hey you don't have to do that she's like no i want to right and and like either either she's not lying or it's like so ingrained that she doesn't even know she doesn't she doesn't want to it's become like breathing she just does it yes yeah yeah you know so and so like so it has sort of freed us up a little bit from you know like and it's made those things like lighter you know we like right i mean saturday morning she shares the burden yeah she shares some of the kind of life burden and it's it's cool because she's single has like a you know a small apartment doesn't have a lot to look after and i think it helps her to kind of keep busy too you know right and and so there's some of that and yeah that's good i mean i i like a I like a relationship that has a partnership element to it because if you don't have that, that element of give and take, it can be very, um, flat.

it can be a very flat relationship. I mean, most of the intimacy in your life is going to come from fighting over who's going to do the dishes. Most of the intimacy in your life is going to come from working out how to balance all the things you've got to get done in your life. That takes a lot of give and take and partnership. And so because of the fact that there's all that partnership, because of the fact that there's all that, I love a, I love a dynamic where somebody comes in and they are sharing the burden. They're carrying some weight.

They're adding to the, because the whole reason why you become partners is so that you can share the journey, share the amount of work it takes to get from day in, day to day out. So, but that being said, has it caused you any discomfort in your relationship uh early on there was some of that there there's been like two two instances of it one was just sort of the early on like the oh my gosh is she gonna you know sort of this is different is she gonna leave me right you know and then sort of And that's a real fear. Yeah. That's a real fear that all cucks face.

And it came on it came on real fast but i did have the advantage of like we were around together and i got to know her and i feel like you know one of the things about like sort of life in general is just kind of be a good person right right and and i feel like you know i've lived enough i've been around enough people that i could kind of tell if you spend some time with people you can kind of pick up on cues and stuff like that and i got to pick up on enough that i was like okay she's not that person right right i think she's not a poacher yeah she's like i'm not here to take away.

I'm here to add. Wow. That's amazing. That's amazing. Because it's tough out there. It's tough to hand over something that you prize so dearly. Something that you have worked years on, this relationship, this beautiful, beautiful thing that has brought you to this place where you guys can be so free and so sexual, and then hand that to someone else and say, hey, I'd like to get this back in roughly the same condition that I'm handing it to you in, and not know. It's a very vulnerable place to be.

So I do like the fact that you guys took the time to get to know her together because i think that's important especially if you're going to add somebody into a relationship even if it's not a relationship technically with you sexually but it is yeah i would say it's like we're definitely in a relationship it's just not a sexual relationship right with each other you know it's like a co-partnering relationship yeah okay i feel i feel like we're kind of like we sort of feel like she's kind of our queen and we're both here to, you know, make the queen's life easier. Exactly. As it should be.

As I crawl upon my throne. We are not amused. Okay. So you and I got onto the subject of when I was on your podcast, we kind of stumbled into an aspect of your life where you had gone through a pretty dark phase and that you're getting better. And that's amazing. I'm currently trying to juggle.

Not really like I'm going through a very very big change in my life i am not going to a nine-to-five job for a while which carries with it a bunch of it's it's a totally different shame spiral shame shame wheel that i'm on but you'll see me my husband's like you do not have to tell me what you did all day I'm on. But you'll see me, my husband's like, you do not have to tell me what you did all day. You're a grownup. I trust that you did things. It's fine. But because of the fact that I don't feel like I am producing in the way that I did, it's very much this like. So my angst is. Yeah.

Like sort of our, I don't know if this is american thing or just this work ethic thing that we have in our brains and like you know just yeah yeah and i mean it's not like i'm not working yeah okay but here's the thing i know that i'm working i'm working very hard because i am actually doing two jobs right now. But the thing is, when you're doing these two jobs, if they don't show income, is it really a job or is it just a hobby that you use to take up your time? And I just, I'm like, I'm trying very hard to say to myself, I'm in a period of growth and change.

I am in a period of re-imagination and I'm going to take that time and I'm going to use that time as wisely as I can until the wheels fall off. And then once the wheels fall off, I will go get back on the train. I'll get back on the grind. I'll get back on the thing.

But that is when you go through these things, when you go through these life changes and they're going to happen in the lifestyle, they're going to happen like life be life in no matter what you're doing so when you're going through these changes and it is taking a mental toll on you and you're having to do the work to get off the shame wheel how do like how did you navigate that aspect of it? Well, okay, so I have to give a lot of credit to Mrs. D because, you know, I'm one of those people that, like, it takes me a while to realize things.

You know, I think I kind of set the story in my mind and then I don't pay attention to the things that are happening until, like the road and she was just like buddy you were not doing good and i wasn't doing good you know right and uh so and she was like you remember when you were doing therapy before and that was pretty helpful it's like yeah i do remember that and she really encouraged me to get back into it.

And i mean i was just at a i got to a bad spot you know you kind of get got in a spot where i was a little like i was over my head at work you know and and i was running up into all those things of like you know you think you should be superman you think you should be able to do everything and the if i can't do this everybody's gonna think i'm a failure and then i'm gonna lose my job and we're gonna end up on the street and you you know your brain like and this is one of those things that i learned through therapy just catastrophizing and then the fact that your body sort of doesn't know from your brain all those signals, if they're like real signals or just what's in your head.

So your body's going bat crazy all the time, you know? Yeah. You're speaking to somebody who was an insomniac from the age of 16. Oh, wow. Like, from 16 until 20, when I got pregnant with my son, I literally slept two hours a night. Wow. I am 100% aware of the cortisol. And the only reason why I slept longer than that once I got pregnant was because the doctor said, you got to.

And so I was literally forcing myself to sleep and then it got better and there have been periods when it's gotten worse and right now i'm in a period of course where the where i'm like the insomnia is coming back and but i'm still trying to do all the work all the tools and do all the things because your body is responding to all of that cortisol that you are constantly pumping into all that stress and all that worry, all that anxiety. So, yeah, your body's like your body keeps a score. So. So you decide. So she she brings it to your attention and you head back to therapy. Yeah. Yeah.

Got back in and did you bring the lifestyle to your therapist? I did. So I, I, I knew that I needed somebody that could talk about that.

So, cause that, you know, if I'm going to talk about my life, I gotta be able to say, Hey this is me you know i had told her i have i have a podcast you know playing a band my wife's got a girlfriend all of the things you know because you need to be able to share and so what i did was i looked for a therapist that was like the lgbtq friendly on the approved list from you know from the health insurance so that's what i got so that's a that's a big one that's a big one because here's the thing um your sexuality is a lot of how you define yourself um especially lbgdq that stuff.

It's a lot about how you define who you are. And because of the fact that we're labeling ourselves with our sexuality, it would be really, really nice to talk to a therapist who understands the label and understands the, the kink behind it. Um, have talked to i gave a um i gave a course on um kink to uh like a at a lunch and learn for a friend of mine who is a counselor for her office oh wow basically went in and know, when you're approaching somebody, when somebody comes to you with their thing, the first thing you've got to remember is it's curiosity, not judgment. How is it affecting you?

Are you doing it safe, sane, and consensual? Now that we know you're doing it safe, sane, and consensual, and I am not yucking your yum, let's get into how it's affecting you. Let's get into the mental aspect of it. Because, come on, man, if this is how we're defining ourselves, we need to be able to discuss it.

We need to be able to talk about what is this in context of because do you ever find that it's a little bit rough to keep secrets i'm very bad at that yeah okay and the thing is is that this lifestyle kind of requires you to keep a lot of secrets from a lot of people that you really, really love. Yes. Because it's not like anybody walks up to their parent and says, this is what I did. I ran, I got a train run on me Saturday night. You know, you don't take that to your parents. That's just not something that you do. So don't need to know that. Exactly. Exactly.

But at the same time, knowing that this is a huge part of your life, sometimes it feels a little bit like... My husband kind of came to me and he goes, yeah, I don't really care. Who knows? My mother, my mother may kick you out of the will because you're the one doing it, but I don't care who knows. And I'm like, okay, so, so you're telling me that if people found out organically, like, obviously I'm not dropping a bomb. I'm not sending them a present like, Oh, here, guess what's inside of copies of my podcast. And no, I'm not doing that.

But like, right, if they find out, then it's not anything that I need to be ashamed of. Because that is something that I need. I can't gauge it for just myself. I have to also gauge it for him. That's the thing. I mean, that's big. Yeah. I mean, cause you're, you're never alone in this. So when you out yourself to somebody, you're not only outing yourself, you're also outing your partner and your partner's partner. Right. Yeah. All the things.

So that's a lot of burden to carry around around especially when you aren't great at keeping secrets right yeah and again this is all based on the fact that we shame sexual pleasure sexual exploration anything to do with sex except for making little christian babies right exactly Exactly. So tell me about this. You said something about going to sex and love. Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. Yeah. Tell me about that. Okay. So, you know, I think I was telling you that in my teens and twenties, it was all the, like the Bible study groups and everything.

And it was basically a bunch of guys sitting around, like, you know, pray for me because of temptation or whatever, you know, you know, I saw this girl the other day. Yeah. You know, and, and, okay. So I was decently good at that for a while. And then something happened. I ended up, a friend was like, Hey, have you ever been to a strip club?

should go to strip club so hey you know what and this had been a while and i was kind of i was starting to have some doubts about the uh the faith-based stuff and i said you know what i haven't let's go and we went to a couple that night and you know how i said i'm sort of the researcher so i had to find out i had to find out okay what are all the places what's the story with them and sort of went on this you know tour of my metro area of all these strip clubs there you know some strip clubs when i had to travel for some places and stuff like that right and you can spend a lot of money at a strip club I'll see you.

Yeah. I mean, seriously seriously it's kind of amazing um but you know eventually i got caught and you know so then it was like hey i'm you know this was we were still very religious and so forth and you know so you got to kind of do the repent and say i'm sorry i don't know what to do to do. I'll get into this group. And it's like a 12-step group for guys like that, right? Right. And so, you know, this is where people, it's the same book as far as the 12 steps, right? The steps, yeah. Yeah. Making the men's higher power. Yeah, all that. Sitting around telling their stories and stuff.

And, you know, you're supposed to kind of get like a sponsor or whatever. And, you know, after the meetings, everybody goes to the fish place, has catfish and, you know. So, and it basically, like, these broke down into, there were either, like, guys at the meeting that, you know, there's this one guy I specifically remember.

And basically his whole story was he had been in, you know, like overseas, like in Japan for a work trip or something, got a massage and got a happy ending and, you know guilty about it came clean to his wife and you know of course with the way I grew up and everything it's like everything's a gateway right? Right. So if you cranked it to a Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue or something you know I mean heck you might as well and just fuck the hooker right? Because I mean you're still sinning. You're still going to hell. Because there's no gradation in sin. That's right.

Every sin is going to send you to hell. Right. You might as well have fucked the hooker and then murdered her. It's just the same thing. I've heard that said about the, you know, watch out for the Christians. And again, I'm a recovering Christian, you know, but like basically because they know they can get forgiven for whatever they do. Oh, God, yes. I had a boss. I had a boss who was like, he kept doing this thing where he would bring his pastor in. And he'd talk about how he was such good friends with his pastor.

Meanwhile, he's in his office watching porn, grabbing the girls in the office and like having them jack him off like yes but he had to so and whoever's saying it the loudest whoever's talking their christianity the loudest those are the ones you got to be the most cognizant of because and i'm'm not saying anything, but like I, I've been there. I have been in that Christianity shame swirl. Okay. I have lived the fear, the guilt, the shame, the fear, the guilt, the shame, the fear, the guilt, shame, eventually becoming a kink. And then eventually that becomes, but it was my way out.

It was my way out though. So for me, I'm grateful to the fact that my, I'm grateful to the shame wheel because it did find, it did help me find a way out of that constant, that constant barrage of thoughts and anxiety and guilt. But now on the other side of it, I can look back and say, I can see that for what it was. I can see that as conditioning to something. Thank you. of it, I can look back and say, I can see that for what it was. I can see that as conditioning to something.

And it sounds like if you, if, if they're equivalent and that's what they're teaching you, what did you find in the 12th? Did you get anything from the 12 step group? Uh, so basically what I got from it as I, you know, I went to, yeah, cause you're supposed to early on, I didn't do like 30 and 30 days, but you know, I tried to do, I did a lot, you know, and then go pretty regularly for a few months.

And, and what sort of dawned on me with it was that it was sort of the shame wheel thing right because like so in in that group instead of like drinking it was what we called acting out which was what i mean basically could have been jerking off to porn could have have been sucking dick in a theater, whatever it was. It was all acting out. Again, this is sort of the compression of the harm or dangers to self and others and all that.

And so and I just sort of realized and then, you know, like this is about the same time that I realized, you know, if you're with a bunch of guys and you kind of randomly mention a porn star, everybody knows, you know. As long as you're not, like, on a church trip, everybody knows. And even if you are on a church trip, they probably are just denying it. They know, but they don't acknowledge. Exactly. That's what I was trying to say. The hypocrisy of it all. Yeah. And so eventually I was just like, you know, what's the big deal if I jerk it to Pornhub? You know, that's...

Safe, sane, and consensual. Like, if it becomes something where it's taking over your entire fucking life... Oh, yeah. Uh-huh.

If it's something where you are handing strippers your rent money and that's there's a difference there but if you are doing that crazy stuff because in my head i was you know i was almost going to hell like yeah you know you're you're you'd already done the worst thing you could possibly do you sinned yeah yeah now what yeah it was a really weird place to be and sort of i kind of realized like so like basically everybody kind of does this stuff um you know there's again probably shouldn't give my rent money to strippers um but what if it's like you know what if it's just like hey you know what i don't have to like feel bad because i Thank you.

i probably shouldn't give my rent money to strippers um but what if it's like you know what if it's just like hey you know what i don't have to like feel bad because i jerked off to watching a video of a stripper no you shouldn't you should never ever like there are so many things that happen that you should probably feel badly because somebody got hurt or somebody got injured in some way. Yeah. But if what you're doing injures no one, because I got to tell you, giving your rent money to a stripper, that's hurting someone. That's taking away someone's safety.

Whether it's yourself or whether it's your wife or whether it's whatever. That is taking away somebody's safety, which is injuring someone. But taking a 15-minute break, watching some Pornhub, blasting on your belly, that's not hurting anyone. The person who has to do the laundry, maybe. I'm just kidding. I try to clean up after myself. I'm a considerate masturbator. There you go. But, I mean, the thing is that it doesn't hurt anybody that I wake up and use my wand. That's not hurting anyone. Oh. I mean, you're doing a thing your body was made to do. Exactly. And it's pretty damn good at it.

Exactly. And, you know, it can do it a lot in a day and it doesn't, you know, break it or anything. Right. And I mean, that's the thing that it all boils down to. As long as you're doing everything safely, sanely, consensually, then you've got no reason to beat yourself up and put yourself like. Because there are times when we are climbing up on that shame wheel all by ourselves. Yeah.

And there are times when we are climbing up on that shame wheel all by ourselves and there are times when we are spinning that shame wheel all by ourselves so maybe before you beat yourself up to the point where you're having anxiety maybe ask yourself the questions who's getting hurt is it safe is it sane I'll see you next time.

having anxiety maybe ask yourself the questions who's getting hurt is it safe is it safe is it sane is it consensual like because i gotta tell you those people who put their stuff on porn hub they're very much consenting to you watching it they're very much consenting to you jacking off to it. You know who doesn't consent to me watching it? The state of Texas. Oh my God, I know. State of Virginia totally blocked us from being able to look at porn. Yeah, same here. Weird. But yeah, so um, wait, I just did something with my elbow.

So, um, what do you got going on right now what do you guys what are you guys up to over there at um cuck my life yeah so i mean we're we're just starting into or kind of i think we're finishing up a season here but you know the uh locktober is always kind of a big deal in the cuck that we try to, and I think, yeah, we try to celebrate. No key November. I'm just kidding. Oh yeah. No, there's always the, it's no, no November is the, is the next. Yeah. So I gotcha. And you know, I'm not a, I've messed around some with the cage stuff and it's just not my jam.

And this is a funny thing about the way my brain works. You know, when I got into this, I was like, oh, this is, I have to, you know, this is sort of the next obvious evolution I need to get into this, you know, and so you're trying and working on it and just never did, you know, and it didn't do anything for Mrs. D. She was like, it's kind of weird. It looks like it hurts. I don't know. You know? Yeah. I'm very, I'm very keyed into the injury part of it. I'm like, is it hurting you? It's a, it's a thing.

I mean, everybody's, everybody's, you know, twig and berries are different sizes and they, yeah. And I mean, the thing is, is do research on what is going to, if this is, if this is a road you want to take, make sure you're doing the research. So anyway, so yeah, you what? Well, I just, one of the times we were trying it and I was trying to, you know, like see if I could wear it out a little bit, you know, take it. And so I was just going to go to the grocery shopping, you know. And I had on shorts.

And as I'm getting out of the car, the little guy just all falls off and drops off my parking lot. Like, okay. Well, I guess I'll put that back in the car. Oh, my God. That hilarious that's hilarious that's amazing october is fun i love cucks that are locked i love cucks that are unlocked it's all right either way it's not required absolutely i love people that are in chastity that aren't cucks there you go so i do like um so you guys are up to just general coming rounding up on Thank you. There you go. So I do like, so you guys are up to just general coming, rounding up on season two.

When are you having me back? Oh, that's a good question. I'll have to find out. No, I know. I totally want to come back. I just totally want, I really enjoyed doing it. I really enjoyed having the conversation with the four of you. And we had talked about other things that we definitely wanted to discuss. So I just put it, you know, out there that I have all this free time. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, so yeah, hit me up. All right. Awesome. Sounds great. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate your time. Sure. Really.

Yeah, thanks for, I mean mean i think it's cool somebody wanted to talk to me for this long so i'm super happy to be here thank you so much for joining me today on the pineapple pinup the hot wife life podcast thank you so much to my guest po for coming in and having a conversation with me and you can definitely check out more of po and the guys at the cook my life podcast um wherever you get your podcasts you can reach out to me at pineapple pinup pod at gmail.com or any of my socials that are listed in the show description. I would love to hear from you. I'll see you next time.