Thoughts

@sn1987a Re: The complaint also states that turning over the ballots and ballot images to the committee "unquestionably compromises the secrecy of the ballots," required under state law, and violates the state law that requires the county to keep the ballots "in a secure facility managed by the treasurer, who shall keep it unopened and unaltered," for a certain time frame.

The paper forms and envelopes the voters mailed in do contain voter data. The ballots themselves do NOT contain any personalized data and neither do the machines that read them.

We're talking about the machines and the processing logs. That's what must be forensically analyzed.

The next few weeks are going to surprise the shit out of you. Buckle up.

Let's also all keep in mind that in many, many cases, these are the same people using the same machines using the same procedures and rules as they did in 2018, and in 2016. Everything is the same except one thing: Trump, and thus they, don't like the outcome.

We will see. , lol , no hammer hit my head , yours was hit long ago , you just have no clue !

It dropped long time ago, on your head, caused you to become like this!

THE HAMMER IS DROPPING!

@thn I just read what you wrote again, and you said it was a "left-controlled election board". Now I would say that is a pretty blatant statement about the political leanings of that election board. Also, here's what the AZCentral reports the election board said in their refusal:

The complaint also states that turning over the ballots and ballot images to the committee "unquestionably compromises the secrecy of the ballots," required under state law, and violates the state law that requires the county to keep the ballots "in a secure facility managed by the treasurer, who shall keep it unopened and unaltered," for a certain time frame.

So the AZ State Senate is asking the election board to break the law regarding privacy of the ballots, a law which was enacted by the Republican controlled legislature in AZ. To top off this circus, the election board said they want to have yet another independent audit done, but are prevented from doing so because backers of Trump have litigation still going on in the courts (appeals of the appeals of cases they lost in lower courts), and the ballots are now evidence and they can't touch them to do an audit. As soon as the lawsuits are over they will do an audit, but not in the illegal manner giving over private information that the State Senate has requested.

@THN

A subpoena to see the machines . . .

Then what?

That's like demanding that the government hand over a computer running Windows.

Now that you have it . . . what can you do?

You can't do shit until you see the source code. THEN you can't do shit until you decipher the source code.

Good luck there . . .

You have NO rights to see how AZ does an election. You have no standing.

@sn1987a read my post again- I made no claim on the political leanings of the Maricopa county election board; only that they were trying to deny citizens the right to know. Their claim that voter privacy rights would be violated is specious. Ballots don't contain voter information.. at all.. and everyone knows that.

This is an attempt to prevent us from knowing what went on. And we have every right to know.

sn1987,

Thanks for taking the time and care to respond so thoughtfully and wisely to my post, adding compelling passages that make a case I agree with strongly about how Trump did fool so many.

Note: In my last post in the “Intentional Misinformation,” I do something of my own correction or complication of the post you comment on, calling out Trump as a con who knows he is a con and knows how he can fool lots of voters.

I need to add one thing to that post. Trump knows so well, as a salesman with his roots in real industry, how to appeal to fantasies. Las Vegas profits from knowing this, as do so many popular television shows and beauty pageants, which Trump diversified into.

America is a place where people have come to fulfill fantasies of becoming rich or famous or a winner, or this country has been built so much on fantasy and dreams....and bamboozlement.

The appeal of Trump or the variations of the con he does are complex, and it’s cool to see how you explain it.

I will add in conclusion that Trump knows too that politics is so much about emotions and emotional manipulation. Obama was so successful appealing to hope. Trump appeals to hope too but he also appeals to fears, resentments, grievances in a mix with appeals to God and racism and xenophobia and to myths about America that people take as truth.

Trump is a showman, a salesman, a Wizard of Oz fraud. The curtain has been pulled back, but some don’t want to see the fraud and go back to Kansas. They want to remain in Oz or Vegas or watching Trump put on his fake wrestling show, mocking elites and giving us one of the most shameful presidencies in our history.

Note: I think of course that a lot of people who voted for Trump were not fooled by him. They voted for such reasons as to save money on their taxes or because they embrace white supremacy or because they felt he didn’t look down on them as do the so-called elitists who vote Democrat or because they are alarmed at the increasing diversity of the country or because they felt Trump would create a better future and their kids or because they felt Trump was God’s choice for president and would protect their gun and not protect abortion, etc.

@sap, Well, I agree with the last bit that Trump voters felt he would create a better future for them, but I disagree that they were not fooled by him. In NY Trump has long been well known to be a snake-oil salesman. None of the NY banks would touch him, having lost so much money with him and the 6 companies he bankrupted over the years. Of course he has been verified to have said the most lies of any president ever. There are too many things to list that Trump has fooled his supporters with, but here are some:

1. Mexico would pay for the wall. Sorry, all that wall is being paid for by US taxpayers. Also, he did build 400+ miles of wall, but just 9 miles of that was new wall. The rest replaced old wall.

1. Saving money on taxes... Of course, the vast majority of the tax cuts have gone to large corporations and the wealthy. Mine went up, for example. Even for those middle class folks whose taxes went down, consider that the tax cuts did not "pay for themselves" as he promised. Instead he ran TRILLION dollar deficits that taxpayers will eventually have to make up. BTW, what did we get for those tax cuts and TRILLION dollar deficits? GDP growth was just about the same as during the Obama years. We just made the rich richer, on the backs of future taxpayers.

1. He's going to win against China... Well, the trade deficit with China right now is at all time highs! I don't call that winning.

1. He said he would clean up the swamp. What he actually did was to install lobbyists almost everywhere, particular in the EPA, Interior, Commerce, Defense, etc.

Anyway, my fingers will go numb listing all the things he fooled his supporters on. I'm always thinking how come his supporters don't see these obvious lies that he perpetrates. I think it goes back to your other points, about him fighting for white people, God (though he has the morals of the devil), abortion, guns, etc. The other really big thing is that conservative media has really been good at hyping up their anger, and spreading misinformation. Rupert Murdoch knows how to manipulate, that's for sure.

Can we all shout in unison at Having:

S H U T U P !!

I just ignore Having. He's such a nothing-burger, and the shit he spews just discredits Trumpers and Trump even more. He's COMPLETELY and OBVIOUSLY SPEWING FALSE SHIT.

In Maricopa county, Arizona (Phoenix area) the state issued a subpoena to obtain their voting machines so they could be examined. The local (left-controlled election board "rejected" this order. Well, America calls bullshit.

@thn, From my investigation of this, the county election board voted 4-1 to reject the order, and the 4 in the majority consisted of 3 Republicans and 1 Democrat. Those 3 "left-controlled" Republicans and 1 "left-controlled" Democrat said that they were concerned that the information requested would invade the privacy of the voters. They also said that the "right-controlled" AZ State Senate doesn't have any legal authority to subpeona an audit. Anyway, your claim that the election board is left-controlled is bullshit.

Moe, What is the matter, too much honesty for you?

I predicted that Biden would win by 7-9 million Popular Votes.

I didn't make a prediction on the Electoral Votes.

Can we all shout in unison at Having:

S H U T U P !!

Sap, THE SNIFFER gets in, OWEBAMA leads him around like a dog on a leash. Iran, North Korea get nukes, Thankfully you live on the west cost where you can get hit from N K. Look for the mushrooms in the skies. Not the mushrooms on the ground you have been smoking.

As Lincoln said, “You can fool some of the people all the time....”

I love the rest of us quote: “....and you can fool all the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all the people all of the time.”

Trump certainly knows that you can fool some of the people all the time. But he couldn’t fool enough people to get elected in 2020.

The oddsmakers did a better job predicting the 2020 electoral vote than did pollsters.

The oddsmakers had Biden winning 310 electoral votes. One major betting place had odds or predictions that got correct the vote of 49 states, with Georgia the only one missed.

The oddsmakers such as Betfair have begun to pay off winning bets on Biden.

I tried to find out if places such as Betfair are taking bets on Trump overturning the electoral results. I could not find it.

I’d be more than glad to take a bet on Biden becoming president. Anyone willing to do one with me under the table?

If Trump has raised $200 million to overturn the vote, we know there’s a lot of money to be made off of fools in this country.

I’d say there’s a 99.999999999 or 100% per cent chance of Biden winning.

Can anyone find odds on Trump becoming president?

I’d welcome too a forensic examination of the voting machines and 60 more Court cases by Trump. He’s lost 59 out of 60 and the one he won was a quite insignificant case.

Note: I think of course that a lot of people who voted for Trump were not fooled by him. They voted for such reasons as to save money on their taxes or because they embrace white supremacy or because they felt he didn’t look down on them as do the so-called elitists who vote Democrat or because they are alarmed at the increasing diversity of the country or because they felt Trump would create a better future and their kids or because they felt Trump was God’s choice for president and would protect their gun and not protect abortion, etc.

Thn1045,

The Supreme Court did not take the Texas case because Texas did not have standing, not because they feared riots from the left if they took the case. But feel free to speculate wildly about what motivated the decision of the Supreme Court, which included three justices selected by Trump.

Attorney General William Barr said that there was no evidence of voter fraud that would change the result of the election.

For me, if anyone is instigating riots over the election and its results, it is President Trump with support by some political representatives and news media and some incompetent or fawning or servile or well-paid lawyers.

Of course Trump has raised $200 million purportedly to challenge and overturn the election results. It will be interesting to see what becomes of that money or how it is used by Trump after the results of the electoral college are upheld on January 6th in Congress and after Biden is inaugurated on January 20th.

"You can't simply reject a subpoena. An analogy would be if you were in divorce court and the judge said, "show me your income so we can compute alimony" and your response was, "Yeah, I reject that." No, you cannot do that."

That is the funniest fucking thing I have heard from a Trump supporter in a LONG time.

How many subpoenas has his administration ignored?

There is absolutely no convincing of any fucking moron who thinks that the election was fraudulent. They are so fucking stupid, that you could not convince them that they were conceived and were born. You could not convince them of anything that is factual because they still want to be in the Fantasyland area of Disneyworld.

Time will solve this issue. Wasting keystrokes arguing with complete fucking morons is a waste of energy.

Only an idiot would defend a theory that can't be proven!

I do not get my news from any one source. Funny thing no matter how many different sources I get the election information from. They all tend to say the same thing. No voter fraud. All of these sources will back up their claims. They will reference numerous people who have the information in order to determine if there was fraud. They all say no voter fraud.

Now I’m sure you get your information from different sources also. They will reference numerous people who do not have the information in order to prove voter fraud. They just claim fraud, without anything backing it up.

Big difference.

One of us is being played as a fool. And he doesn’t live in Connecticut.

Nice to know the media does your thinking for you ,lol.

“ The voter fraud claim is so bogus it does not even merit a debate on a swinger site!”

Yet the faithful keep posting about it. It is our responsibility to remind them that it just plane old does not exist. It is indeed fake news. The more they repeat it the more they believe it.

The voter fraud claim is so bogus it does not even merit a debate on a swinger site!

Lol that’s the same county that recounted and you lost your bet , lol . But your still posting .