Episode 98: The Need for Lifestyle Community

Transcript

This podcast contains explicit language and content and is for mature audiences only. Hey you teenagers out there, if you're under 18, this show is more for your parents. So now that you have that mental picture stuck in your head, put some music on and get back to doing your homework. We are a long-time married couple who's decided to chronicle our personal adventures and share our sex-positive discussions as we navigate our way through the swinging lifestyle. Care to join us?

hello everyone i'm mr jones and i'm mrs jones and we want to welcome you to episode 98 of the we got a thing podcast the need for lifestyle community yes in today's world i think in today's world community is very important yeah the lifestyle community is emerging yes and forming we are noticing and we want to talk it's thriving about that we have special guests but we'll talk more about that later yeah so we do an announcements first yes yeah you you wrote the outline so you lead it i'm on the keeping up with the jones's page oh there we go announcements yeah hey do you know what it's time to do it's time to pack it's time to do laundry yes it's time to do laundry and it's time to go to the dry cleaners and sweet talk your dry cleaner man into brushing the job again right because we're going to vegas baby yes it's finally here yeah and we are putting this podcast out just in time for those of you coming to vegas and you can listen on your on the plane yes or in the car yes it's gonna be fun yeah so we are going to playhouse lv we do have just a couple slots left but basically it's full we're excited about the weekend.

We've got a lot of other events planned. Yep. Got lots of friends to catch up with. Yes. Got 105 degree asphalt to walk on. It's going to be a bit warm out there. Yeah, it is. But we have an awesome pool party scheduled for Friday. We're going to a show Thursday.

We have a pool party friday playhouse lv friday night we've got another party planned on saturday night it's just going to be an awesome weekend to make new friends and to catch up with a lot of old friends yes can't wait gonna be great what else do we have coming up so as you know because i think we mentioned it last time mr jones and i I did a vacation for two in Jamaica last month, and we had an amazing time, and we're going to talk about that amazing time that we had, but the reason I'm bringing it up now is because it was an actual planning retreat for you and I.

Like, we got into this little rhythm that we would, you know, we would get up and we would eat breakfast, and then found this shady spot outside it was like an open air spot but it was shady right outside the lobby and we would order mimosas and sit and I had my little tablet with me and we kind of planned out the next year and a half yes and kind of talked about you know what how we want our community to evolve and how we want our podcast to evolve and how those things are interconnected and really kind of like what our longer term goals are as both a couple and as a business. Right.

As we approach episode 100 and eight years doing this, it's a natural point for us to do some forward thinking. And, you know, what is our podcast going to be about? What is the purpose and, you know, shifting more towards community and what does that mean? And we'll have some answers for you here in a couple of months. But yes, I did take pictures of Mrs. Jones with her notebook out. I know we were legit. We were working, we were working hard.

And, you know, one of the things that we are going to be getting on our calendar is I think we're pretty committed to doing a week trip at the new air quotes desire, but it's really a Temptations Grand Meeches is the name of the resort. It's a Desire concept resort in the Dominican Republic. There's going to be two parts to this resort. There's going to be a Temptations part, which is very similar to The Temptations in Cancun, where it's singles can go there.

It's a topless resort versus a clothing optional resort and um it's very party focused um whereas the desire resorts tend to be uh well they are couples only and um and it's tend to be a more sexy sensual type resort so they're going to have two sections and the desire section is going to be called the grand miches section because miches of the the area of the dominican republic in which the resort's being built so the resort itself is opening in october of 2022 the grand opening is and then we're hoping to go next summer.

So we don't have a week blocked out yet because we need to contact the resort to make sure that week is okay with them. Yeah, we've made initial contacts with Desire Management and told them that it's probably going to be early summer of 2023. And a lot of you have requested that we add another trip in summer, especially for your school teachers. Yeah, for the teachers and for the people that need to get their kids shipped off to grandma or summer camp. No, they dump their kids in a camp for a week. Just say it like it is. Yeah, so there'll be more, hopefully, on the next month or two.

We'll have a little bit more detail on that. Yeah. We're still going to do our November trip in Mexico. And our mansion trip. Yeah, and our mansion trip, but we're going to be adding in this week in the Dominican Republic next summer.

Right, and speaking of community, we do have our newest subgroup in our community is our LGBTQ plus community, and it's not, I mean, this is June, so so it is pride month so it's a perfect time to kick it off it is and it is about better understanding and promoting lgbtq plus but it's also a place where people can go and talk about their sexuality in a non-judgmental forum. Right. Especially, like, it really doesn't have any kind of a focus. But what I'm hoping it becomes is a safe space for anybody that has sexual desires outside of the norm. Heterosexual norm, yeah.

Because really none of us have sexual desires within the norm if you're listening to our podcast we're all thinking outside the box to some degree but sometimes i think we still feel like there's a a line that we might be a little afraid to cross right and this is the place to have those conversations that you don't need to be afraid to cross the line in this arena. Right. So we hope that it becomes a safe space for people to talk. It seems to be extremely active. And so is our expansive connection coaches corner group that Catherine and her team are running.

That seems to be really popular too. So we're excited to include a lot of new community members because we did the 30-day trial last month and got a good response from that. You've been a busy boy. I have been. We have a lot of new members. Be careful what you ask for. I know. It's a lot of work, but it's worth it. Oh, totally. It's well worth it. Yes. So I guess the next thing we need to talk about is keeping up with the Joneses, right? Yeah, there's things to keep up with, actually. I know. Except for stupid surgeries and health things. I know. That's almost behind us. Almost. Yeah.

Well, can I talk about the fun stuff first? Yes, of course. We went to Jamaica. Mm-hmm. It was amazing. Yes. We did not go to Hedo. We went to a Sandals resort. The resort was so beautiful. Like it had this little, so it was Sandals Royal Caribbean, which is in Montego Bay. And it was truly not even a 10 minute ride from the airport. Like we like, right there. And it was kind of a medium-sized resort. It was bigger than desire, but it wasn't humongous. It was very easy to navigate. And it had this cute little private island. Like, maybe, was that even a quarter mile off the coast?

Like, it was just a couple hundred yards. You could swim there. Like, if you were a good swimmer, you could swim there.

I couldn't swim there, but a good swimmer could swim there yeah um but they had these little pontoon boats that ran back and forth like so you could go out there anytime you wanted there was like a restaurant out there there was a um a little pool with a pool bar out there the jerk chicken shack was out there that made the best lunch ever and the clothing optional beach was out there and the clothing optional beach was out there um so we spent a lot of time out at that island um it was just really beautiful and um the whole resort like every setting was was lovely i think that the clothing optional part of it we were discriminated against how so well we went over there intending to lay out yeah naked and we had to navigate to the other side of the island where there was no this was a two and a half acre island people there was no like there was no machete cutting through the jungle to get to the other side of the island that's practically what it was oh my gosh yeah it was uh we had to get our um what's the we had to get our malaria shots before we hacked our way you're so ridiculous so we we found the the little dinky spot on the far side of the island that was secluded for clothing optional um people a dozen chairs over there i think yeah and there were people over there too yeah but it was in the shade that like it was literally a jungle well i think we needed to go in the afternoon like we went in the morning and yeah it was shaded everything was shaded and then they had these hard plastic basket weave lounge chairs yeah which really put waffle imprints on your ass.

Yeah, you ended up with waffle butt, for sure. And they were hard. So they didn't want you to be comfortable. They weren't cushioned at all. And you're taking your clothes off, and I'm not completely healed to begin with. I was going to say, they didn't bother me, but you were six weeks post-surgery. You had certain areas that appreciated a nice cushion. So, I mean, we took our clothes off for about 10, 15 minutes, and I said, I can't lay here. This is just not comfortable. Well, I took my top off, and I was really looking forward to tanning my boobs.

I was looking forward to kind of mitigating those tan lines on my boobs, and it was shady. So, there was a See you next time. looking forward to tanning my boobs like i didn't you know i was looking forward to kind of like mitigating those tan lines on my boobs and it was shady so i there was a seawall um you know right there because uh the island is actually like just a big hunk of coral that kind of became above sea level during a hurricane like 100 years ago i think so it it isn't really very sandy on the far side of the island where we were. It's very corally. So there was a seawall.

So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna like lounge on the seawall and look all sexy because that's what you would have been looking at. So I was like trying to like lay in front of you look all sexy. And I'm like, dang, there's no sun. No. And then your little hiney was like, insulted by the of the chair. So we left. Yeah. We put our clothes back on and went to the pool. Yeah. So I'm going to give like a little snapshot now because I do have a sexier one for later. So y'all know Mr. Jones is a rascal. Like everybody knows that. We're 98 episodes in. It's too late. Like the gig up. You're a rascal.

But he arranged a surprise birthday dinner for me in this gazebo out over the water the last night we were there. And I had no idea. It was the most romantic, special thing you've ever done for me this is when i should probably just keep my mouth shut and say thank you oh i i could not have appreciated it more yeah and and you did it all on your own like i'm just i was just very impressed and very touched and it was just the perfect thing it was a perfect way to end our vacation yeah it was special but, I was just very impressed and very touched, and it was just the perfect thing.

It was a perfect way to end our vacation. Yeah, it was special, but what I was going to say, because I am rascally, is that I got all the way to Jamaica and realized it was your birthday, and I couldn't go out and buy a gift card for you, because it wasn't anything, so I'm like, oh shit, what can I do?

Oh, thank goodness our butler suggested that you had all these options, and I i said i'll take that dinner on the beach on the last night here but seriously i picked it out and they and i picked out the menu oh like the menu everything was set for me like i just sat down and all of this lovely wine and champagne and all this food came and it was all perfect yeah and our. Yeah. And it was a perfect evening weather-wise. And the water, the waves were splashing in on the beach. The mood was out. Just like one of your little romance novels. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Like, it was real-life romance.

It was incredible. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah. Okay. Well, when we come back, we have a very special treat for you tonight. Yes. Our friends, Finn and Emma, from the Normalizing Non-Monogamy podcast. They were gracious enough to have us on their podcast about 300 or 400 episodes ago, since they do about 10 episodes a week. Ha ha. Their podcast is about having whatever your flavor of non-monogamy is, they have you on and so they can interview you and you can tell your story. And it's really a good way to help everyone understand the different flavors of non-monogamy.

And that there's not one right way to do this. Correct, correct. And we've noticed that they have been building community for a while. We've been building community for a while. And so the four of us kind of got together and said, you know, we think it's about time that we talk about the importance of this, of community in the lifestyle. So we've recorded with Finn and Emma. Yes. And that you're going to hear the four of us talk about community and why we think it is so necessary, so relevant, and so important in today's lifestyle. Well, Afen and Emma, it's really good to see you again.

And we can say that because you're on our screen. I know. We have a treat. This is a video podcast, at least for us. Get you guys to introduce yourselves in just a second. But, you know, we had the pleasure of being on your podcast a while back. And we met you guys a long time ago. And it's been really fun watching your podcast grow and watching your brand grow and really love your approach and what you're providing to the lifestyle community. And it's great to have you. So welcome. And why don't you guys just take it from there and introduce yourselves? Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much for having us. We're excited to be here and spend some time with both of you and just chat. So yeah, thanks for having us. Yeah. So to introduce ourselves, we're Emma and Finn. I know you probably did a little bit of intro in your intro to this intro, but we host the Normalizing Non-Monogamy podcast. We've been doing that for a little bit over four years now.

We're both in our mid-30s and we've been non-monogamous in various capacities since we were let's say 18 and 19 ish so most of our relationship other than maybe the first year or so yeah and it's looked a lot of different ways it was it started off sort of swinging and friends with benefits and in the last year and a half we've been in a polyamorous dynamic. It's been a quad. So we're in a relationship with another couple and they are married and it's complicated, but that's roughly the dynamic. So that's where it's at today. And that's sort of what it looks like today. Thanks.

And the reason that this came up is that we had been talking with you guys in another context and we, we said, you know, let's, let's collaborate on something and you guys have grown your community for the past few years, as have we. And instead of just saving that conversation for the four of us, we thought it would be good to record it and put it out as a podcast. And some of the thoughts that we had to start off with was, you know, I think, and we talked about this with Catherine a lot, you know, we're already wired for community, right? I mean, each of us is.

But when you come into this lifestyle, quote unquote, community, especially as a as an adult, it's unknown. It's scary. You know, there's there's no. I think you feel very isolated at first. Yeah. Isolated because you can't talk to your normal people about this. Yeah. And and your questions are like, are there people out there like us that do this? Are we the only ones? Are people going to think that we're weird? Are we going to walk into this sleazy, slimy world and turn away running? And if there are people like this, how do we find these people?

And so I think that natural feeling that people have and these questions that they have when they first come in is one thing and then i i'd really like to hear your thought on this what we've learned is that people there seems to be a sense of frustration around like how do i find that connection how do i find that community how do i find my tribe um and so i thought maybe we would start with you know sharing from our perspectives, like what does community mean for you all? What does community mean for us? Because it's a word that's subjective. Everybody likes to apply their own label to it.

So really love to hear from you guys, you know, how you define that term in the lifestyle. Yeah, it's a great question. Do you want to go first for you?'s a it is a great question and i i'm just going to answer for me personally i think community is a place where i need to be able to feel like i can be myself be completely authentic and accepted for who i am uh and be able to interact with people who I can relate are relatable, and I feel safe with. And there's also an element of fun. So it can be there for support, as well as the fun times.

And to me, that's the biggest piece is showing up as authentically me. Yeah, that's, I guess, in a nutshell. Yeah, I don't know if mine varies too much from there. But I think that being able to speak openly and honestly about the things we're going through. And I think that's important in any community. But in non-monogamy space, I think there's an extra level of that.

Because what we are doing is a bit against the grain, as much as we wish it weren't and so like it's right if i were to go to just about any one of my friends who maybe aren't in in this community and say like oh i'm having this trouble because oh you know my my partner is doing this and it's clashing with emma whatever and they'll be like well there's your problem you have a you have a girlfriend and it's like, okay, well, I guess this isn't the place to talk. So being able to bring problems like that to a community and say, I'm struggling. And for them to be like, I got you.

I had, this happened to me last year and I did this, this, and this, and by the way, it didn't work. So maybe don't do it the way I did. Right. And so having people that like the people in our community, they're not experts. They're people with lived experiences. And just like us, we're lived experiences and we can say, well, we tried that and it didn't work. And we tried that and it worked a little bit. And so, yeah, being able to just speak openly and honestly about who we are and feel safe there that like people may not agree with you.

they push back they can challenge you but you're not being judged and i think that's really critical for us right right i i want to like piggyback on what emma said you know to to be in a in a place especially for when you put a bunch of women together uh women in today's society can be really really catty and judgmental and in competitive all for the wrong reasons and and to find a place of community where you can say i'm really insecure about this or i really don't know how i feel about this or this happened to me and i you know and i don't know how to process it and to have you know people just kind of latch on to you and walk you through it and talk you through it and let you think out loud right and sometimes it's hard to find somebody that'll allow you to do that yeah and the word that i think you may have mentioned also emma is authentic you know there's there's the opportunity to explore and and i think we say our authentic selves but really i think a lot of us don't even completely know who that is you know you have to be in that environment the the three of you just described before you start to learn who you really are because you we've been programmed by all these external sources and we get into this community and and we start exploring in an authentic way and that helps us find our authentic self so um that that's how i would i would add to what you all said yeah i love i love that addition because i think there's we all grow and change through our lives right and there's the how to have the opportunity to explore that and and maybe try on different hats if you don't if you're not sure like try this on and see how that fits and you're like oh maybe that's not for me okay change it and yeah it'd be to be in a space where that's allowed and accepted and encouraged yeah is.

Well, and really, really quick on that same kind of thread is that we've heard a handful of times in our chat group of like, somebody will be saying something and somebody will jump in and be like, hold on, what's that thing you're talking about? Like, there's so many ways to do this. And a lot of times people don't even know they exist. And then they're like, Oh my God, you can do that. I had no idea I could even do that. Now I'm into this thing because I didn't even know it existed until three minutes ago. Yeah. And so, yeah.

And, and you, you touched on, um, Finn, you touched on how you guys have evolved as a couple now that you're in a poly quad, but I'm, but also, you know, know has your idea of what community means has that evolved over time as well yeah for sure yeah I just quickly I don't I don't think I fully recognize what I was missing until you have it and then you're like wow what I knew I was I knew I wanted something different before we created this community but I didn't know necessarily what that was until now it is here and it's like oh my gosh how how did my life how is my life without this community like yeah and it sounds like cheesy like we're just pitching it but like literally like we we turn to our community multiple times a week for support and our own stuff we jump in and help other people and we like it has been a lifesaver for us in the last you know especially through the pandemic when you're all you're ultra isolated and we've got this group of a couple hundred of our closest friends that we can jump in and know that they're like there and someone's going to have our back and, and that's just a really great feeling.

So yeah, I think for a long time we tried to build it in person and personally, personally before the podcast, the podcast and we because we were always on this hunt for like friends with benefits we were always well we want to be able to find these people we can go hiking and camping and then maybe we get naked and great and like over the course of eight years of doing that like we we struggled like maybe a two or three people that we would say fall into that category and now we build a community and we've got some of our closest friends that we've ever had in our whole lives have come out of this community and we talk to them on the regular we have zoom calls we do all sorts of stuff and they're like genuinely our closest friends yeah and that's crazy yeah and i think from my perspective i perspective, I'm going to, I'm going to use the judgmental word, but I'm going to flip it around on myself because I find myself a whole lot less judgmental than I was before.

And, and I don't, you know, I think again, I don't, it's not an excuse, but we're all wired with this fight or flight. Like, are you, are you with me? Or are you against me? Do I have to fear you? Or am I hunting you? You know, it's that wired into us. And, and to a degree, I would, I would look at a couple or look at a person, and I would instantly have a judgment or an assessment. And then that assessment would dictate whether I took a step forward and introduced myself or had that conversation. Now, I am just totally fascinated with people.

And I love just walking up to a couple, no matter who they are, where they're from, how old they are, how they engage in the lifestyle, and just talk to them.

And, and it just never ceases to amaze me how fascinating people are and how everybody has a fascinating story and so I personally am feeling like I don't judge people as much as as I used to and and I I mean I was guilty of that just like you know any of any of the rest of us were so yeah do you have a thought well i i guess you know just going back to you know what community means to me it's just like like finn and emma said you know you start this community and you think you're creating a place to bring people together so that you know they can they can meet each other and have this sense of community and then I realized that this community is for us too and the support we've received you know especially through Mr.

Jones's health care just the the support and the the expertise you know we had medical professionals reaching out and just all kinds of people offering you know advice and support and and it's just you don't know how like maybe scared you are about something or unsure you are about something until all of a sudden you receive this unconditional love for people that you may not have even ever met in person but it kind of doesn't matter in community like you know with the with the constant connection on a daily basis through word and then hopefully you know the occasional zoom meeting that you you get in and then the ultimate treat is if you get to meet in person someday right but there's just all different ways to be in relationship with somebody and it doesn't have to be face to face at least in today's society with all the technology we have to aid us now yeah yeah so i think i'll uh i'll go first on the next one to give you all chance to okay to think of it i you know we we talked about what it is it what's important about community to me is diversity of thought um and that's part of this vulnerability and knowing people.

And you guys mentioned your evolution. And when we first got into this, there were things that we said we would never do that or who would do that? That's not right. What we're doing is right. What they're doing is not quite right. And then we started meeting people that we respected and that we were friends with. And they said, we do things a little bit differently. And it was like, Thank you.

we're doing is right what they're doing is not quite right and then we started meeting people that we respected and and that we were friends with and they said we do things a little bit differently and it was like oh huh well that's interesting because they have a great relationship and that's working for them you know i thought that would be a train wreck and it's not for them so as as much as the word diversity is as bantered about in this in today in society but I want to focus on the diversity of thought and experience because this is not about age or gender skin color anything else this is about how people think differently and how people approach the lifestyle differently and and when they're that's shared within the community especially with people that you've connected with and that you've zoomed with on you know your virtual chats or you've chatted with all of a sudden that thought isn't as unusual as it was before so that that's one thing that sticks out in my mind that I don't know that I would have learned as quickly if it wasn't for you know the community yeah yeah I think that's just super important and and like I think like you said like not the racial diversity or gender and all of these different things are not important but like to talk about the thought and I think we we see this come up in our community quite a bit because our community is it's not really like swingers and it's not really poly people it's this just like people doing relationships in various ways and you know there's people in there who are monogamous there's people in there who are just like figuring it out and and it's you know I think it's no secret right that for a long time and I think we're starting to see this subside but there's been this like divide between the swinging and the poly like oh you're swingers we don't do that we're polyamorous and then there's the the swingers are like oh we don't have feelings we just do that and we're seeing that go away a lot but there is still a lot of like oh well we're relationship anarchists and so we don't control it and there's like some of there's there tends to always people want to sort of be the be the way that we're doing it is the way yeah and so what we've seen so much is in in the community and in taking it back to the thought diversity is like being able to have people who say like oh man you're doing it that We do it this way, but like it works for us and I'm glad that works for you.

Or I could see how that's a challenge. We ran into that challenge and we shifted our dynamics slightly and those problems sort of subsided for us. And so how people engage in that dialogue about the way they do it versus the way other people do it. And, and there really are no two relationships in here anywhere that are doing it the same way. Isn't that, isn't that a novel thought just to be happy for somebody else without feeling like what they're doing is better or worse. And, you know, the, the word that, um, and Mrs.

Jones, you brought this up on an earlier, one of our podcasts and that, um, we were with another couple and the gentleman was doing something with Mrs. Jones, you brought this up on an earlier one of our podcasts in that we were with another couple and the gentleman was doing something with Mrs. Jones. And later when we debriefed, I said, wow, he really, I've never heard you make that noise before. What was he doing? And I said it in a way that made her feel like it was better. And she said, honey, it was different. And different is a neutral term.

Different different doesn't mean better it doesn't mean worse but but we're we're i'm at least when i most of us when we hear somebody's doing something different the first thing that we go to is oh well you are you saying you're better or are you saying you know it's this it's just now i have to do it that way yeah you don't yeah don't just keep being yourself yeah well, because it's ingrained in us as humans. I think it's easy to jump to that of, well, that must just be better. Because you go to your defenses and your insecurities and all of that comes out.

And you have to take a step back and be like, hang on. Just because something's different, that doesn't mean that there's anything better or worse with it. So I think that's a really good point. Well, and I think, too, when we're all pushing societal norms here, I think, and I'll speak for myself, like, there's just built-in insecurity that comes there. And so if you're like, well, I feel like I'm doing okay. I figured this out. I'm chugging along, and somebody comes along and is like, oh, no, that's toxic. And you're like, oh, geez, O'Pete. It's like, I'm doing it wrong.

I'm like, I'm doing my best, but I'm doing itging along and somebody comes along and is like oh no that's toxic and you're like oh geez oh pete's like i'm doing it wrong i'm doing i'm like i'm doing my best but i'm doing it wrong and they're somehow saying they're bad and so it's so easy to jump to the defense of like if somebody says well we do it this way to not interpret that as well my way must be wrong but my way is just different right that's a that's a challenge especially i think in let's call it counterculture communities so yeah well i think there's like there's an almost an art too of calling out someone that you feel like hey this maybe not i don't know maybe you could say that in a better way or call you know encourage someone to maybe change their wording a little bit and to do that with empathy and not be non-judgmental is it's an art but when people are able to do that they create safer spaces and more comfortable spaces and people who actually listen to the to each other and that was a comment from somebody in our community that we were talking to as well as like they were just saying like that was really valuable to them to be able to be pointed out and not necessarily corrected but showing something different a different view of looking at something uh without feeling like they were just wrong um or bad in some way they were just because we're all learning and growing yeah i think that's one of the things that impresses me most about our community is our community's ability to self-correct when they when they start like creeping away from the guidelines or like somebody new comes in.

they don't really kind of understand the culture yet are like Mr. Jones and I really have to like moderate because the community itself will guide the people really without like you were saying really without any judgment or harsh words. They can just like redirect the conversation and help people think about things a different way. It's very impressive. Well, we're through humor because we have one gentleman in our community who throws the gif of the referee throwing the yellow flag. And that usually does the trick as well. But I think that's just kind of the nature of the beast.

If you're in this non-monogamous community, whatever flavor you're experimenting with right now, doesn't that just make you normally more open-minded you know so i i don't think that that many of us in in this arena have tunnel vision or we wouldn't have made it here to begin with yeah yeah i'm just curious a question for the two of you have have either of you been called out or corrected in your own community can we we go on to the next question?

Then I'll answer it for myself because we have, or I will say specifically I have, and it was around, there's been a few times, but usually it's around me using wording that I didn't know wasn't something to say. And the example that comes to mind is we were trying to figure out originally when we built our chat platform to keep it. We were trying to, like, make it a supportive space where it wasn't just about posting, like, nude photos. Right. And so we were kind of like, yeah, we want to welcome photos.

And I used the word the word classy like but let's keep it classy right and somebody was like well that's not a good word because of there's background connotations of the word classy and and i was like oh shit i didn't know and then you have to be like you know thank you and you have to just kind of own that and take it and then i think that sort of sets the tone for like other people in the community being able to like know oh i can make mistakes it does i don't have to like banish myself from here we're still welcome and loved but now we're doing things it creates additional discussion yeah around it all too yeah i get i get called out quite a bit and it's and it's kind of a funny thing because we created a nerd group a nerd chat because all of the all of a sudden like a nerd conversation about star wars would break out well may the fourth yeah and then and then i would jump in and say hey you nerds need to go find someplace else to to chat so we made this nerd chat well now every once in a while i'll i'll make the mistake of quoting a monty python movie or saying something star wars related and boy i get it right away mr jones you need to be in a nerd chat you know you're not supposed to say things like that so yeah i've been called out definitely i don't think you have you do everything perfectly at least that's the perception is that mrs jones does everything right i'm married to one of those two Ha ha'd love to hear your thoughts on, I would love to be able to say that four years ago when we started our community, we knew exactly what we were doing.

We knew exactly what was going to happen. We knew exactly how to moderate everything. And obviously, that's not the case. So I'm wondering if you can kind of talk about, and I'm not really talking about technology now.

I'm talking about your idea for what you thought you were starting starting and as over the past three years you guys have been doing this um how how has that changed and how do you how do you embrace that change or or sometimes push back on that change i'm just curious as to how it's evolved for you yeah great question i think just something that popped into my head as you were asking that question, and this is just a piece of an answer, I feel like, was the thought of we own, we try to own it when we don't know what we're doing.

And so if there's a situation that arises, and we look at each other, and we're like, well, we're gonna, we don't know how to handle this, but like, we're going to try our best. And then we just own the fact that we don't know what we're doing and type that to, or talk to the people directly and say, Hey, I, we'd never done this before. Can you help us? Like we're, we're trying to navigate that.

So I know that that's something that has been an evolution for us too, but along the way, we've just had to own the fact that we don't know what necessarily the correct decision in all of these different cases. And there may not even be one that we just have to learn to navigate. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just on that, and I'll kind of get back to the question, is like the fact that we're dealing with relationships and non-monogamous relationships, it's inevitable that people will probably be attracted to each other. Potential relationships may start or interest may start in these groups.

And I mean, that's a recipe for potential conflict or concerns. And so, yeah, we've had to navigate a little bit of that. And it's sort of we kind of get to a point where like look you're adults like we're not babysitters here so like I'm sorry like this person didn't do anything in the community that was like they weren't saying your name they weren't calling you like whatever it was so like if you don't feel comfortable we understand you're welcome to, but we can't ask this person to leave either because they, they have not really violated any of our community guidelines.

So like, I'm sorry, maybe you don't feel comfortable and maybe they don't feel comfortable, but like, we're not here to referee. So like, yeah, take care of yourselves, keep yourself healthy, keep yourself safe.

And you know, if that means we give somebody a refund or whatever then for us it's like okay we want people to feel safe here and if this isn't the right community for you i mean we've sent many people your way we've sent people to the multi-amory group we've we just you know there's the bonobo network out in the bay area and we're like look this may not be the right fit here's here's a bunch of other options go check them out yeah because we want you to fit in i'm glad you mentioned that because that's one of the reasons that's one of the bigger reasons we charge a fee is because what we have found what i have found personally is what i subscribe to is something that i find value in and that's where it's where i want to invest my time and it but it also reminds me like when we go through the credit card bill every six months we say why are we still subscribed to that we don't even watch that anymore so we we let it go because i don't want to keep paying you know the fee so you know it really keeps the community full of people who feel like that what whatever they're worth investing in.

And then when there is an issue, like you just said, that, that can be an indicator that maybe you're not in the right place, uh, or maybe you need to step back and listen or watch a little bit. And maybe you need, it's an opportunity, an AFOL, you know, uh, it's an opportunity to learn something, but, but people will opt out and that's perfectly fine. It's, you know, finding community is important. Finding our community is not the goal here. It's, it's finding the community that is going to give you everything that we, the four of us have been talking about tonight. Yeah.

That public space versus intentional space, I think is really key.

What you just you just said like that that creating that intentional space because people then almost treat like they treat it better too because they're more invested sorry you were about to speak no that's exactly it i think you know we and i we talked a little bit about having to moderate a couple of things i we we we hesitate to say this out loud because we know we're going to jinx ourselves one of these days but like the amount of like bullshit we've had to deal with in this community is pretty low pretty much zero yeah knock on wood yeah yeah very little and like so our community is to be part of like the ongoing chat community and beyond is it's $5 a month and that would get you and a partner in and, and it's, so it's a pretty small amount, but like you said, it's enough of a barrier that there's no trolls hanging out there.

Like nobody goes in there and just says dumb stuff.

And then just to see what reaction they can get people, you people show up with thoughtful comments support for each other it just it's just beautiful all the way around and yeah every once in a while what somebody gets in a relationship snafu okay like that's a you know that i'll deal with that any day over having to like kick trolls out every five minutes yeah right and i will say there was one other adjustment we made uh I don't even know how long ago it was now I guess maybe a year ago we'd we'll call it nipple gate so we we like I said we had the guideline originally that the chat was like it's for support and all these things and yeah people posted photos but they weren't really like it was okay post a sexy photo but let's keep nudity out of here right and so somebody posted a photo and there was a boob and so like it was it kind of got to the point where like okay clearly this space is needed people want to post photos of themselves and feel sexy and we had resisted it for like three years or i guess two years of this i think it was about six months ago okay we resisted for a long time let's say that to like giving this space because we were we were just afraid of like it's just gonna blow up and we're gonna have to moderate it and there's gonna be all sorts of judgmental things and ah and we so we were really hesitant to create a space for people to post let's say graphic you know explicit photos and so we did it and we opened up like three sub chats and said okay there's one for health and fitness one for your pets one for your food porn and one for your nsfw like explicit photos right and boy did that take off it took off but it was like every single fear i had yeah was totally unfounded exactly the way people showed up and i will i i don't think this person would have any i'm not going to name who they are but one of our members was like six or seven months pregnant at the point when we did this and people put everyone's like oh my god i can post my photos and she jumped in and posted some photos and she's like i've been waiting for a place to post these that isn't set life and she posted people are like oh my god you're so beautiful and everyone jumped on it and it was so supportive and it's like awesome yeah it set this tone of like everybody's body is welcome here and it's been that way from from that day on and it's been amazing and like yeah i know we don't worry about it at all and i used to lose sleep over it like i know we were really we were really nervous to do it but it all of our fears were just yeah yeah we are our guidelines were we are the only thing that we said we said was no genitalia and no sex acts for the main chat but then when we opened our perv chat uh like you said it just took off now the good thing the other good thing about the perv chat is that people are in there because they're consenting to that and it's something that they want to do and and my main concern was always boy if that shows up and this is somebody's first day in the community they're going to run you know screaming out the door and uh you know but but you're right and and that that's where i was going to go with my comment is that we've diversified into about 30 different you know sub chats now from bdsm and mature mature matters for us older folks newbies health and fitness nerds we even have a disney chat and then we have a we have a chat one of the most interesting one is is uh couples with or parents with disadvantaged children they're in lifestyle you know so things that we would have never come up with this is not our idea people come to us and they say hey i think there might be a need for this what do you think and then we'll we'll help put it together and promote it.

And then it just grows organically. So we didn't have this master plan of all of this happening. And like you just said, we stumbled through a lot of it. But trusting our community and trusting that, you know, people that see things differently than we do, there's still value there.

And putting it out there, like you said, Finn, is, oh, oh my gosh look at the benefit that has come from that where i was viewing it as something like just protecting people uh has turned into something one more thing to deal with yeah one more thing right yeah it's not like that yeah no i i i couldn't agree more letting the community guide what the community needs right like and then not being resistive to it and I will I have one more example of this for us so Emma quite a quite a while ago started a women's group and I was so resistant to like I don't need a men's group no one's going to join a men's group I don't want a men's group right and finally I did it and I've had consistently more people need a men's group.

No one's going to join a men's group. I don't want a men's group. And finally I did it. And I've had consistently more people on the men's group than Emma's had on the women's group for the entirety of the duration. They're pretty close now. I'm just going to point out. But it's still less. And so, yeah, so we have, you know, every month, 20-ish men or people show up because we we actually we've had non-binary people. We've had transmasculine people show up and and we just we have a space where we can talk in that like a space where men can talk about this type of stuff and not feel judgment.

Like we last month we talked about sex, but it wasn't like the bro sitting around the bar talking about sex it was like here's here's actual stuff here's actual like right i need help here or some guidance and it was it's been a great space and that's another one where i was like resistant to it yeah and now that it exists like it's it's one of the most valuable things that i have in my life and i don't have to pay the five dollars for us so funny because that that is the exact same story that we have i started the ladies chat first and then mr jones was like what are we going to talk about it's going to be stupid and like it was probably a year that no yeah it was i think it was a year that part is true i'm going to take the hit for this one because because guy i thought what are we going to talk about trucks and motorcycles and you know stuff like that and then i kind of poo-pooed it um because i wanted to talk about more being more vulnerable things as men and um and it took a while but it got us to this point that now we get in bed like this is both on wednesday night so and they're the same time so I'll come up and I'll say how many ladies did you have because I had this many guys and you usually and I usually have more yeah but we also have a Thursday night event so yes so my I'm deluded because of that yeah that's true so take that yeah no i love it I love that it's it's not an anomaly here because I think what that shows is this the need for men in particular and that's not that women don't have this need or that anyone doesn't have this need but to be in a space where you can talk about things that yeah I think there's a there's just this need for men to be able to talk about this stuff and not feel judged and i think it's i don't know i don't know what i'm trying to say i mean i'm totally with you like it just warms my heart to because a lot of what we talk about in our ladies like book club is how amazed we are at how vulnerable our husbands will be in the men's chat you know it's it's just wonderful to have you know kind of unwittingly created this environment where men feel safe enough to be that vulnerable and and i think it's really it's a a testament to you Finn for creating that culture in your community where those men feel safe in that chat yeah we just we just had a guy actually this past week the newest chat we're starting is a lgbtq plus pride chat but it's not going to be just focused on that it's going to be focused on exploring your own homosexual sexuality as well.

And a gentleman brought it to me. He said, I think we need a space for this conversation. And then I threw the idea out in our men's chat. And we went 15 minutes past, and I usually cut it off right at the time. And the conversation was so good. I just let it go. We got so many great ideas. started that, that group up as well. And that's one of the things that, and we did a podcast about this, you know, I, I really wanted to do that, but I don't, I'm not the right person for it. So I'm so thankful that somebody in the community said, you know, I feel passionate about this.

I see the need for it. Can I step in and help? I mean, of course you can. Thank you for that. Yeah that yeah and that's something it's a great point because we you know we are ourselves but we don't represent like we can only represent ourselves right and so you know we we don't like the using the terms women's groups and men's groups because we feel like it can be exclusive however we feel like're the best. We haven't been able to come up with other terms to use, but we don't, we're not in a space where like neither one of us identify as non-binary.

So us trying to create that space would be challenging. However, if someone were to come to, we've always been encouraging, if somebody identifies as non-binary and wants to choose which group they feel more comfortable in, they're more than welcome to do that. But if anyone wants to start their own within our community, that's even, like, that's amazing. Strongly encouraged. Yes, please. Because, like, there's just, we can only be ourselves. And so when, like you said, Mr.

Jones, when someone steps up and said, I can be the voice here and I think this is something that works something that works for me like that's just so so powerful and such a like that's what the whole point of the community is is that right to empower people and and you don't necessarily know that that need is there until somebody steps up and you throw it out there and then and then people will come out of the woodwork and say oh my gosh i would, I would love to explore that. Right. Yeah. I think a lot of credit goes to like there's always this sort of trailblazers in these communities.

And we definitely have a few in ours that are like we have a couple of men who are bisexual and really one of them sort of came in. And I don't know this for sure, but my guess is he sort of was like, I'm looking for a community. I'm going to test this community and see what the response is. And if it's not for me, I'm going to get out of here. And he kind of like started being very out there and like the way that people jumped in and like surrounded him, supported him. And then other people were like, oh yeah, me too. Oh, me too. Oh yeah.

And you're're like all these people are sitting in the shadows like i want i want i don't know how and somebody comes along and gives them the permission and like yeah there's one of these things that like emma said like yeah we're not non-binary we're i'm i'm not bisexual and so for me to be that voice is really hard but when somebody else brings that voice and then the community jumps under him and lifts him up and says yeah great you're you're one of us and also i'm one of you like we've had so much of that and that's i don't know to me that's what it's all about is to watch people like feel like they can be themselves and and to like discover things about themselves it's amazing yeah yeah and so we've i know we've talked a lot about this already but i'm going to ask this next question in a little bit of a different way about what what should people expect for being a part of the community and i'm curious to see if you guys get this too a lot of people will test our community or they'll join it or they'll reach out and say, I don't need one more dating site.

I don't need one more social media. And so there's a preconceived idea that this is something that they already have or another something that they already have. So turning this around from from the user standpoint, how would you how would you tell somebody what to expect that to be a part of this community that's different from what they may already be involved in in social media or in a dating site?

yeah great question i will say we we before we jumped on here we actually posted in our group about media or in a dating site yeah great question i will say we we before we jumped on here we actually posted in our group about like hey we're doing this collaboration with with the joneses and we're talking about communities so like can you let us know like what some of these things mean to you and actually one of the people in there said uh one of the women said like hey as a as a women in these spaces i feel so grateful that like this isn't just another place to come and like hook up with people and find people to hook up with and she's like i'm sure it's happening but like that's not the focus and so she's like i feel safe showing up here posting photos of myself posting things about my relationship and that it's not a like a predatory space so i would say for for us and i would assume in your space as well it's the focus isn't on like who can hook up with who and it's not a big dating site it's a like community support platform and then these people are friends and we see them making in-person meetups all over the country organizing stuff on their own and they're just hanging out and like yeah we don't know what happens when they hang out but like we know there's not a whole lot of like predatory stuff or even if somebody posts a nude photo it's not like oh hey baby that's so hot like send me a message it's like beautiful photo or gorgeous or whatever and it's it's just a very positive spin on social media because it still is social media let's be honest but it's a it feels like a healthy positive and uplifting yeah yeah and not uh non-judgmental and it's natural to compare to be to to do that comparison to everybody's life but i don't know for me I think that a big difference from you know social media tends to be like you know the traditional Facebook Instagram that type of social media tends to be like hey this is my best foot forward like most most of the time put the best part of themselves on social media and here I feel like people share the good and the difficult and look for support and say hey I'm human and I'm struggling with this where you know can I get Thank you.

I feel like people share the good and the difficult and look for support and say, Hey, I'm human and I'm struggling with this. Where, you know, can I get some help? And I, and I think that, and I'll probably get in a little bit of trouble for saying this, but Oh, what the heck? Won't be the first time. And I'm just going to make a generalization here. So you can hold me to, it's a generalization.

When it, when a, most of of the time when a woman joins our community she goes right into the ladies group and starts connecting with the ladies when the men are coming into the community or asking about the community they're looking for uh who can who can i find for my wife and i how how can i get my wife to do this you know it's more about it's not more about them than it is about them trying to you know use this site like they use other sites and but what what men i what i want to say is and i'll use the term endearingly that that mrs jones uses on me like hey blockhead uh what you want to do is get your partner in the ladies group and then you can just sit back and wait until she comes and tells you this is what she wants to do because you know that's that's the it's like the opposite of of what most gentlemen uh uh their their method for for trying to to engage this way community doesn't i guess what that's what this boils down to women just seemed more designed to engage in community right away and take advantage of that and guys are more the hunter you know we're out there while you all are you know doing we'remen and you're.

Please allow me to clean up your mess. Okay. Thank you. That's what I think. Got a big shovel. I think what people assume they're going to have to do when they begin to engage in community is they think they're going to have to come in and sell themselves. and I think they feel a lot of pressure about saying the right thing and posting the right picture and being witty and funny and choosing the correct emojis and all this stuff. And I think what Mr.

Jones is trying to say is if people can just kind of ease their way in and just observe the culture of the community and then and then realize that, you know, they can they can introduce themselves. And then once they introduce themselves, then they can start, you know, gaining information and making connections.

But I think people assume it's going to be more of a high pressure environment like a dating website is where the sole purpose is to make connections and then they end up accidentally hanging around and making all these amazing friendships that you were referring to earlier that we have been blessed with as well yeah yeah i think that's and like if when i think on like if i were to be back out in the dating world, to meet people the way i would do it would be i would go and find activities i like doing find groups who are doing those activities so i'd go hiking i'd go camping i'd go paddle boarding and i'd find people who like doing that and i would show up for a while doing those things and building becoming that sort of trusted person in that space and then you're going to naturally meet people rather than showing up and being like, Hey, I'm here to meet people.

Any, any of you ladies looking for like, and it's like, even if they were, you, you've scared them. Yes. Yes. Well, that's two of you that said it better than I did. I would totally go out with you. You just kind of come and you hung out of my crowd. I mean, Emma, do you want to pile on too? I'll let it go for you. Oh, you're so sweet. And we kind of did the same thing. You know, some of the things that we hear from our members about what they get out of this is relatable relationships.

And, you know, sometimes people use the word normal, which is probably not the right word, but relatable, something that I can relate to. And you just described that to Finn, but authenticity from vulnerability, accountability. You know, I'm in the health and fitness group, and I just had to take seven weeks off after surgery. And, you know, there are people that come back and they're encouraging me, hey, you know, you're coming back from an injury, you know, you can get in there and share what you exercise.

Nobody's bragging about what they're doing, but people are in there encouraging you and staying accountable. And, you know, to give back. It's amazing to me, like the gentleman, And we've started many of our subgroups from people who just they have a passion of i want to give back i i'm i'm a yoga instructor and i want to do something or i have a a four by four jeep i want to i want to you know i want i want to help i want to i want to pitch in. And so can I, can I organize a meetup in my town? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That would be amazing. Yeah, exactly.

So those are some of the things that other people are saying. And obviously everyone said it much better than I did. We're just picking on you.

And, and so this is all in good fun.'s all in good that's right until somebody gets hurt right um so i wanted to ask um what are what are some and we we just kind of touched on some of them but but like what are some other misperceptions about kind of the non-monogamous community in general not not your your community or ours but um you know what what do you think some people just get wrong from the get-go about what non-monogamous community is like you're probably going to say the same thing i'll let you go first the biggest one that comes to mind is that it's all about the sex yes and that's it and it's really like hang on no's all about the communication.

And the sex is just a tiny part of it. Right. That's right. Yeah. If we're if we're not too tired at three in the morning when we've stopped talking, maybe we'll have some sex. Yes. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

one of the words that comes to my mind was uh clicky um we went we had a we have regional groups as well so we have a dc regional group and all these all of our regional groups plan their own events and they're and they're anywhere from a three week a three-day event on the weekend where you get a hotel room and go to a club or like this past weekend we said hey we're going to go to a winery you know how many people want to meet us out there? Friends are coming into town. And so a bunch of us just showed up. And there were two couples there that we had not met before. Right.

They had recently joined our community. Go ahead. And one of the things that just melted my heart was at the end of the afternoon, the gentleman came up to me and he said, this was not what I was expecting. He said, I thought this was going to be a clique we had to break into. And he said, every person here came and introduced themselves to me. And I mean, so, you know, you can't force people to do that. You know, you can't train people to do that. The only thing you can do is create an environment and bring people together and just hope that that's how they respond.

And so that whole misperception about a community being clicky is something that I was overly sensitive to. And I'm happy to say that that doesn't happen a lot. As two introverts, like trying to get into the lifestyle. And then going to big events or going to clubs, right?

Those are just pressure cooker environments and you know the music's loud and and you see these groups of people talking and it immediately looks like they're closed off circles right and that you can't break in there and and it's really not that way at all I think you know we've learned if you just kind of walk up and and just kind of like stand there for a second and then find a way to break into the conversation they'll welcome you they'll open their circle with you yeah we know we see that a lot in our weekend events um you know the newbies will will be scared to death on thursday or friday and and the veterans are right there saying oh i was i was with you and And then three months later, there's an event and the person that was scared to death on thursday or friday and and the veterans are right there saying oh i was i was with you and then three months later there's an event and the person that was scared to death is now comforting the people that you know are coming in uh and that's wonderful to see because you know what they've heard it from us almost a hundred times yeah it means so much that's the other thing i think the misperception is it's not about the jones.

We're not in there to be all and know all and end all. They listen to us enough, right? They don't need to listen to us anymore. Yeah.

There are other people who step up and it means so much more coming from somebody else sometimes because it just comes out of the blue or people uh people share and it takes the pressure off of everyone else it takes the pressure off of us we don't feel like we have to be there all the time there there's people that are just engaging with other people all the time yeah yeah i love that and your to your point about clicks like and that's something that emma and i is again two intro We would go to a hotel party or a club.

And yeah, you'd look around and be like, well, everybody's already got a friend. I don't have any friends here, right? How do I break into this? I have no idea. And we've seen, and I'm sure if we were to go up, maybe some of those clicks aren't as clicky as we thought. That's probably our own narrative in some ways. But I had two kind of thoughts on this. One is if you are somebody who goes to an event and either you're a couple, maybe you're just a solo person going to an event. And that first one feels really clicky. My advice would be go to a second one.

Because the second you show up to another event, somebody can go, oh, I saw saw you before and now all of a sudden you're in right you're part of you're now part of this group of people who have seen each other multiple times and now you're part of the click so that's that's the first one and the second one is similar to what you guys have experienced in yours your events we we did our first major like in-person event since the pandemic in the fall of 2021 we did an outdoor thing like at a park and we just got like a pavilion and we let people like bring your own drinks and food and we had about 40 people and it was this like we saw everybody's circle get all in their circles and we were like uh-oh and then like it was like clockwork throughout the night like circles would break up and form new circles and it was like everybody ended up somehow talking to everybody and all these little circles or big circles became like new circles and it was like I was like wow it was like clicky but it wasn't clicky at all like everybody talked to just about everybody and it it was really cool it was really cool to watch yeah yeah that's exactly what you hope for yeah and and this is maybe something that just the four of us would would understand but and i know you're like a mama bear sometimes because to just stand back and and observe like you just described finn um sometimes you look at that and you say okay we're on the right track you know we're on the right track and when you see people connecting when you see people um doing introducing themselves and trying new things and and being vulnerable and talking about things that are scary um and then you can just sit back and say wow you know this is this is really what it's about it's even more and people ask us this a lot they probably ask you too is did you ever think when you started you know and and before they even get the you know the sentence finished i'm like no no there is no way that that we knew yeah or like on on sunday afternoon somebody will post a picture in the community and it'll be a couple that live on the East coast and they're hanging out in this photo with a couple that lives on the West coast.

And it's like, wow, something's been going on behind the scenes here. You know, and it's just so heartwarming to watch people make those connections. Yeah. Without a doubt. And I, you know, I, I, there's this piece of me that's like sitting here thinking like it sounds like we're all just tooting our own horns here but i they're like to me the piece that like comes out of this is like the clicks you think are clicks are not really like it's a very welcoming and i think this is probably true for most of the places that we've been where we've like oh this is super cliquish um it.

It probably wasn't, you know, in some cases, maybe it was, but like, that's probably a narrative that we're telling ourselves because we're afraid and we're introverted. And I mean, to be honest, even at our own events, I'm afraid to talk to some of the damn people because I'm such an introvert and I know the story you're going to want to tell. You can tell it if you want.

wants to tell it please all right go ahead well our very our very first in-person event uh was in the fall of 2019 and so before before pandemic times we were in new york city and we did a meet and greet and it was like in this bar that was it was unfortunate the location i mean you're in New York City so everything is busy but it was you know dark and crowded and we were trying to mingle with people and there was a good a decent amount of people but after maybe like 20 minutes in I look over hold on let's get the time it was at least an hour carry on maybe at least an hour sure I don't know My shut my shutdown reflex doesn't come in like an hour, an hour.

Carry on. Maybe at least an hour. My shutdown reflex doesn't come in. Like an hour into it, I look over and Finn is by himself in the corner, just standing there watching. And I'm trying to mingle and integrate with everybody. I look over and I'm like, what the hell are you doing? We're supposed to be hosting this, not watching. I was like, come in here and help me. I found an extra dark corner to hide in. It was perfect.

Well, these last two questions are kind of meant to redirect from what you just said, Finn, and that is to make sure that people understand that this is not about us tooting our horn. Um, so, you know, why do you think it's, why do you guys think it's important for somebody to find the right community? You know, not necessarily your community or my community, but why, you know, why is it important to find the right community for you? I think it's critical because not everyone, you want to be able to be authentically you.

And if you try out a community and it just doesn't feel like it's just not right for you, then don't stay there. Go try another different community because if you try enough times, hopefully, eventually, and hopefully it won't take that many times, but hopefully you'll find the right one for you. Yeah. So I was thinking about, I'm going to admit that I stole some information from another podcast that I listened to called A Bit of Optimism. And it's hosted by Simon Sinek. Oh, yeah. He's one of my favorites. Right? One of my all time favorites.

So this was from an interview he did, um, last fall. And so he, he was talking with this guest about, uh, about happiness. And he was saying that like the guest was talking about the kingdom of Bhutan measures their gross national happiness. And he went with like some researchers there to talk about like, how do you measure this?

there indicators is there anything the question was is there one question you can ask somebody to get a gauge on on how happy they are and he said yes the question is if you were in real trouble right now who who could you call or is there somebody that you could call and know with 100 certainty that they would have your back and if you can answer that question and and say that they would be there for you like that is an indicator that like happiness like you probably have a higher level of happiness additionally there was a twist of to to even take that a step further was whose list are you on and if you are on people's lists that's an even greater indicator that you probably have uh even more happiness in your life knowing that you are somebody's go-to person and i think we've seen out of our community that we are the go-to people for some people but we've also seen other people be the go-to people or just the community be the go-to that somebody can jump into the men's chat or the women's chat or the main chat and say holy shit my world just blew up and 10 or 20 people are like we got you what do you need you want to jump on zoom you want to have a phone call here's my phone number give me a call and so like finding that community gives you a whole host of people who will have your back at the drop of a hat and so that was sort of my reasoning i think that community is huge because you can lean on any one of those people and they'll show up for you that's that's awesome yeah he's one of my favorite that i i've listened to his podcast a few times but i click on him so much that Facebook gives me a steady diet of, of Simon Sinek.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think in, in the, the last podcast we just did was your thing might not be our thing or vice versa. Is that what I, yeah. Anyway, cause I, you know, that was something that people always, I think they listened to us and they, and they thought they had to do it our way. And so we feel the same way about the community. Just because you listen to us doesn't mean you do what we do, how we do it, nor does it mean that our community is going to be a good fit for you. It would be great to try.

I would encourage anyone to try it, give it a try um but but that's not what that's not what it's about it's find it's through this self-discovery process and the authenticity that you discover within yourself and within your partner define that and i think that'll help then when you do find the right community you'll know um so i'm not sure which comes first you know i don't know if you need a community to get there maybe maybe it's a little bit of both but but we we're well i'm not gonna say we're happy when people opt out but that's we if it's because this is not their place that that's that's what we want we we don't the last thing i want to do is is is collect a subscription fee from somebody who doesn't, who's not getting value out of, out of something.

And so that, that's kind of our philosophy as well. Yeah, I would just second that. And I imagine Emma would as well, like more than, more than happy to, to say, like, if somebody is like, hey, you know, I was expecting this out of the other thing.

I'm like, here's your money find it like we want you to find that because like i don't we don't want anybody in our community who's unhappy like that just it doesn't serve anybody right right and the five dollars a month isn't worth like them being happy and then maybe they're like making other people in the community unhappy because they're trying to morph it into what they want and not that you can't adapt and have your community change but if somebody's truly unhappy then yeah go go find your happiness right and just like there's diversity within the community there are diverse communities and so again we we can't say that our community is is good or bad or better or worse it's our community and so jumping to another one means the same thing give it a try and if it works for you it's the best you know one for you and then finally I think we wanted to and and maybe what we can do Finn if you don't mind if you'll we can talk about resources that you all might know and you probably know more than we do but if you if you would send some to me we'll put in the show notes i'd love to give everybody a takeaway like how how do you find these communities i mean we have one and you have one you've mentioned a few but just off the top of your head uh do you know of any that you'd like to mention that that you know that people could go and look for and and give a try yeah i mean finn mentioned multi-amory they have a a community the bonobo network in uh san francisco area life on the swing set still has a community um i'm trying to think of others and you know we can we'll try to think of others too and send them send them your way well i would i would just jump in there too with like go on meetup look for some there's there's meetup groups all over the country probably all over the world facebook groups um there's tons of them there's some that are private and paid there's some that are public and have thousands of people actually just a quick note on that I had a women's group call yesterday uh and one of the women was sharing yes like she was having great luck on facebook groups and people are so hesitant on that because they you know facebook is tricky to sometimes navigate and have privacy and all that but there are private groups and she found that that really worked for her so another flip side meetup works too and sorry i interrupted you no yeah i just think your local community like Thank you.

that that really worked for her so another flip side meetup works too and sorry i interrupted you no yeah i just think your local community like finding if you can find in-person stuff and find local munches or meet and greets that's great but yeah online there's just the the emma named the one the the top ones that i could think of the other one i would say is there's a podcast making polyamory work. Libby Sinback has, it's not really a community so much as she does these like cohorts of like 18 to 20. It's sort of like a group coaching.

And then you sort of wind up in a community with these people for like 16 weeks. And so it's a little different format. And we've been a part of one of those and like, we've gotten a lot out of that as well. And so there's just a lot of different ways to find it. Um, one other one I thought of, um, and that's the bloom app. So the bloom app is they're founded or they were founded in San Francisco. And so they're mostly in California right now, but they've launched in San Francisco and LA and they're trying to move across nationally. And, but it's, it's an app for community. Oh, okay.

Not just community, but sex positive community and it's built around, it's, it's sort of a mix of a swiping dating app, but the, really the focus is community.

And so like all sorts of events are on there like body storytelling and different meet and greets and munches and it's all sort of sex positive non-monogamous um centric and so it's a it's a pretty neat platform so as we close up um i know that the four of us talked about this before we started hitting the record button but we're we believe okay i believe you might have to clean my mess up again i believe uh if if the lifestyle um if non-monogamy is going to become normal normalized community is the way that it's going to happen.

I just have to believe, you know, events are events, clubs are clubs, dating sites are dating sites.

But I think the future of growing the non-monogamous lifestyle so that more people can experience what we're talking about is is community and and as mrs jones and i were thinking about where our podcast is headed you know we're we're starting to our community is becoming the primary of what we think and then our our podcast is is going to support that so and i know you guys talked about doing the same thing well i just think about if only we would have had this sense of community when we started in the lifestyle it would have been such an easier entry um you know because you come when you find this sense of community you don't feel alone maybe you're not finding people you want to have sex with right away or like you don't want to have sex with everybody in the community but you you find a place where your voice is heard and and you're not and you're not judged and you're not shamed and you can be curious and you can think out loud and people respond to you um that that's the way people are going to start feeling like i'm not a freak.

You know, I'm a normal person. And I have normal feeling and I have normal urges. And, and we have a normal relationship, even though we want to open it up to other people. It's okay. Yeah. And maybe you do want to have sex with everyone in the group. Well, act on that.

No, not not to pitch our community again, but but damn we have some sexy people in our community i'm telling you yeah it kind of pisses us off when we see all of these friends taking pictures of themselves all across the country like wait a minute when we we're responsible for this how do we get in on it i love that yeah i i just i want to say i think you're right?

you know there's this i have this like weird weird fantasy of like throwing this party of like all of our non-monogamous like community that we built but like having some of our like monogamous friends be there and then be like well how do you know all these people and be like well let me tell you so these people that you've just spent a whole day or weekend with and have been completely quote-unquote normal like they're all non-monogamous and right these people are actually you know in a quad with those people and all these things and people be like oh well shit yeah what i didn't know it was that you know ubiquitous yeah and.

And you're all just a bunch of weirdos just like us. So, yeah. Well, it sounds like the four of us get it all figured out. That's right. Is that the message we're trying to prove here? No, we're back to knocking on wood again. I think all the listeners know better. I would hope so. Well, hey, thank you guys again.

It's been a long time since we were together and it's it's great to reconnect and i'm so encouraged to hear some of the same things coming from your community that we're experiencing and some validation of some things that we're seeing and we want to wish you the best and hope that your community continues to grow. And I like that idea, Finn. We're going to revisit how we combine these communities for some sort of an event in the future. That's a Simon Sinek kind of a thought, right? That's how we're going to bring it all together. Infinite game. Yeah, it's an infinite game, right?

That's right. So, yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, thank you both for having us on. It's been fun. Yes, it has. Thank you so much. Yeah, you're welcome. It would have been more fun in person, but, you know, maybe in the future we can make that happen. Well, if we can keep Finn out of the corner, it'll be great. Right. I don't know. Or I thrive. I'll go in the corner with Finn. I thrive in dark corners. Oh, all right. It's my happy space. I don't know. I'll go in the corner with you. I thrive in dark corners. It's my happy space. Maybe that's the benefit of virtual communities.

You can turn off your video, I suppose, but if you're leaving it, you can't do that. That's right. There are some times where I'm like, man, I wish I was not moderating this thing because I just, yeah. Yeah, we get it. It's introverts. It is challenging. Yeah. All right. Well, you guys take care and thanks again. Yes. Take care. Thank you again. Have a wonderful night. Good night. Welcome back to Snapshots. Yes.

Thank you,n and emma yeah um i should i should note that we are going in our show notes we are going to have a list of um quite a few lifestyle communities yeah and so um if you're interested in knowing what they are um just check out the show notes and you'll see them listed there yeah but thank you guys for taking the time it was so so much fun and um and it's so exciting to see other communities growing because like we said at the very very beginning like you know the title of the podcast is the need for lifestyle community but really i think it's the need for lifestyle community in today's world because i think things have i think things have changed for everybody and then as as your life evolves the need for another way to find community becomes more and more important right so you know back to good old covid because covid is like the the you know the villain of everything well when covid happened so many of us went to remote work right well where do you meet a lot of your friends you meet a lot of your friends at work and okay like you meet people on a zoom call and that's all well and good these days but that isn't really going to easily help you figure out if that's somebody you want to have like a beer after work with because now you know you live here and the other person lives 25 miles away even if you're you know in the same area so you know that's one less way we have to connect and find genuine friends and then as you were as your life evolves you know like we're empty nesters so obviously we're done with soccer and all that crap oh sorry i didn't mean did i mean that yeah i guess i did didn't i yes you did sorry no for us it was i love my kids it was and those were great times and i miss them like our daughter was in the marching band.

And every time I hear a marching band now, you know, I just miss it. But yeah, yeah. Okay. I really was a good mother. You know, we don't have those opportunities to connect with parents of our kids' friends anymore. And honestly, how authentic were those relationships anyway? You know, you may meet that one couple that you end up like becoming genuine friends with. But life just evolves and it can actually become an isolating type evolution, right? So a community is necessary.

And I just love that, you know, we have found our community and we're watching and we're, you know, proud mamas and papas of the way our community is evolving. But Finn and Emma are experiencing the exact same thing. So it can be done and it can meet the needs of everybody. You just have to find your right spot. Right. So, sexy snapshots. Oh, sexy snapshots. All right.

all right you go first well can can i brag on myself a little bit yeah so you say that i'm a much better sex therapist than i am a nurse and i mean that in the most loving way so we had the best time in jamaica i think that's one of the best vacations we've ever had. It was good. We needed it so desperately. And it was just so nice to get away and literally celebrate life, right? Yeah. I mean, you said it was all about my birthday. And, okay, that dinner was. But it was really, celebrating your recovery. Like at six weeks, you were kind of given the freedom to get back to normal.

And, you know, you were allowed to travel and you're allowed to start exercising again and this and that. So we were just kind of just celebrating a little bit of normalcy coming back. Because I I think when last fall, when, when you were, when the flag went up and, and your hormone replacement therapist technician told you to go back to the urologist and, and we started this whole journey, we were in denial for a really long time. And then when the MRI showed a lesion and then you had to get the biopsy, I think that was like an oh shit moment for me.

Like our lives might be changing a little bit here. And then when we got the diagnosis at the beginning of January, I think I became like emotionally paralyzed because all of a sudden I realized that you could really be sick and, you know, cause cancer is not, it's not an obvious disease until it's really bad. So it's like, okay, well, it's not obvious now, but where are we?

Like you want to know the spectrum and cancer doesn't play that game well so anyway we've we've been very fortunate because we really do think we're out of the woods but I think I was very paralyzed so to be given that permission to like emotionally let all that crap go and re-engage it was so liberating and yeah i mean things aren't back to the way they used to be yet but um can i talk about like your functionality for a second yeah i mean is that okay yeah um so you you can't get an erection yet but you have the most amazing orgasms like i i don't know what they feel like to you but they're spectacular to watch I'll see that?

Yeah. That's my pet name for your dick. Yeah, that's a whole other story, but go on. So, anyway, it's like, we're learning so much about the human body. Like, you're not getting erections, but you're experiencing pleasure. And, like, you like to be touched. And, like, we can have sex, it's just not penetrating, but it's still pleasurable for both of us. So we just kind of played with that all week. And we had the most, okay, so here's my snapshot. We had the most amazing balcony. We were on the top floor of our building, which was, it was the fourth floor.

So we could like look down at this like courtyard area that had this beautiful swim up pool and this big hot tub area and the like a pool bar but then we could look over top of all the other buildings and see the ocean like it was it was spectacular and the balcony was really deep so we had a hundred percent privacy up there and like the the side walls were concrete so our neighbors couldn't see us so i i think we had sex in our bed once Yes.

hundred percent privacy up there and like the the sidewalls were concrete so our neighbors couldn't see us so i i think we had sex in our bed once but every other day we were out on our balcony just kind of like dinking around and there were chairs and there was like this little tranquility soaking tub so we just had all kinds of options balcony rail like and what's your snapshot so what we were doing it like the day i remember is like we were masturbating in front of each other so i was in one chair and you were the other chair we were facing each other and the jamaican breeze was blowing like it was just perfect i think we had a bottle of champagne out there and um i was using a vibrator on myself, and I came, and you came, too, like, at the same time.

So, that was so powerful for me, because you can still, we're still experiencing pleasure. It's just like the mechanics aren't, like, the same. same. And, you know, we'll just make this work until other things start to work. But it's okay. Like, I didn't know. I was afraid that, and maybe you can speak to this.

I might be speaking out of turn, but I was so concerned about your psyche being messed with because you can't get an erection but that doesn't seem to be a problem and i've tried to talk to you about this and you keep saying it's okay so i until you use your words and tell me it's not okay i have to think it's okay yeah well i mean my snapshot is is the same what what happens and And by the way, we are going to have a urologist surgeon on our podcast in the future. I want to get a little bit more of this in my rearview mirror so we have more to talk about.

But we've already talked to somebody who does this, and we want to bring awareness to it and talk about this more. But, you know, the prostate had nerves wrapped around it. And those nerves have to be moved out of the way and the prostate removed. And so when the nerves are disturbed, erections can be impacted and most likely are. You regain, not everybody regains the ability to do that. in most people do. And in my case, you know, we're, we're thinking that that is going to happen, but there's no timetable for it.

It could be next week or it could be six months from now, you know, we don't know. So our thought process is, well, we can't stop enjoying each other. We don't want to do that. And you're encouraging me, and I appreciate that. But the most interesting thing about the human body is just amazing. Because I never would have even thought, I never would have been in a place to ask myself, can I still have an orgasm after having my prostate removed? or, and while not erect. Yeah. Because I've never been able to try that before because whenever I was aroused before I had an erection. Right.

So it's not like you can practice having an orgasm without an erection because if you're a normally function guy you're going to have an erection yeah so but the but the nerves in the in the penis are still active and it still feels good it's just not hard i would have never imagined that so specifically you were on top of me at one point in time on the bed and you were what is it called grinding against me yeah so you. So I wasn't inside of you, but you were grinding on me. And then I had an orgasm there. And the orgasm felt almost identical to normal.

I would say that it's probably a little bit more intense, but it doesn't last as long, at least not yet yeah um so it was pleasurable and we had a good time i mean obviously we've got in order to be able to have penetrative sex that's going to have to heal right you know but we need to keep up with the rehab to make sure that that happens. Well, you know, I guess the good thing is that I, like if I'm going to have an orgasm, at least like my first orgasm is going to be from my clitoris.

Like I'm a very, we were talking in Ladies Book Club the other night about, are you an innie or are you an outie? Because some women more easily achieve orgasm through penetrative sex. Right. And then some women like to have their clitoris stimulated, you know, and that's an easier way to have an orgasm. So I'm more of an outie. So like the whole, I mean, I like penetrative sex. Like I'm not gonna like try to sugarcoat it and deny it. Yeah, I know you do. So I'm looking forward to that returning.

But I can still, like, kind of get it out of my system, so to speak, without having your penis inside of me. Yeah, and the one thing that I thought about after all of this is that there are so many men who have performance anxiety in the lifestyle, and I'm not suggesting that this is a replacement for it, but when you can still have an orgasm without an erection, that's a game changer. But I learned that. Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. Every morning when I wake up, I'm like, is this the day? Is this going to be the day that it comes back?

And we did just buy a penis pump, you know, so there are some other things. And the doctor told you to buy that. The doctor said, yeah, to go ahead and try that and then put a cock ring on. And so we're going to experiment with that. Right. But the fact is that we're experimenting with it and we're talking about it and we're not letting where we stand right now dictate the fact that we shouldn't have some sort of sex with each other. Now, we have a few rain checks that we've written to people. A few?

Because I'm not in a place where I can perform can perform yet so we do owe some people yes we do and we remember you all know who you are and um we we have a list not that the list is long that sounds terrible but yes like we are looking forward to getting back in the saddle yeah um and and isn't it great though that we have friends that still want to hang out with us because like we're just off the table you know that and right you know that's what we said like we had everybody back to our house i'm thinking after the winery a few weeks ago i'm thinking oh lord are they going to think that this is going to be like an an orgy fest you know and you know we said right up front like we're out of play like if y'all want y'all can do what you want to do and more power to you but like i'm i'm um and this is going to be interesting because we're leaving for las vegas in like three days um i'm just gonna say it the next penis in my vagina is going to be yours.

However that happens. Whatever that happens. I'm just...

just gonna say it the next penis in my vagina is gonna be yours however that happens i'm just putting it right out there like so we're gonna have i don't know are we even like emotionally ready to play with people because we haven't um i don't know like i'm i'm like in yeah I'm in very this is not sexy but i'm in very protective mode right now like and i know you're fine i know you're emotionally fine but in my mind i'm still feel like i have to emotionally protect you and i know you don't need that but i'm i need it i need to do that so just let me do it um so i don't i just don't know well look how i'm gonna feel okay i get all that but stop ladies i can still kiss you you know we can still make out that's true i'm still aroused by it so don't think that i'm off limits in that regard.

Yeah. Okay, you got to throw me a bone here. Right. We've enjoyed all of our lifestyle encounters that we've had so far. But I just, yeah, we just have to figure out how we want to re-engage. I don't know. Yeah, we're figuring it out. Stay tuned. Because I think we're're gonna have to kind of do that on the fly so to wrap all this up um community is important and it's and it's been important for us you know and especially in the last few months and you know to sort of think that we just run this community it's it we're a part of it and we're beneficiaries from it as well.

So we hope that wherever you find community, whether it's with us or whether it's with Finn and Emma or whatever else, you know, the other communities that are out there, don't settle. Don't settle for something that's not quite your flavor. You know, there's plenty of options out there. Right, and there are options out there.

So because, and I know we mentioned this earlier we were talking to finn and emma um when you first like start thinking about engaging um in whatever form of non-monogamy that you're curious about it's very scary and you can feel very isolated because you can't talk to your normal people about it right um so you you have to find a place where you can like get your words out there and and help people like affirm that you're not crazy right and that you're not going to like you know self-destruct by doing this yes all right well that wraps up 98 speaking of community if you're interested in joining our community you can find information on our website which is we got a thing.com w-e-g-o-t-t-a-t-h-i-n-g.com you can contact us through our website you can also email me at mr jones at we got a thing.com or me at mrs jones at we got a thing.com you can contact us through our website.

You can also email me at mrjones at wegotathing.com. Or me at mrsjones at wegotathing.com. You can follow us on Twitter at wegotathing. And we also have a presence on Double Date Nation and SDC and Cassidy. And Pinterest. And Pinterest. Okay. Is that it? I think that's it. We are Mr. and Mrs. Jones and we got a thing what's your thing We'll see you next time.