Catherine (one of our favorite humans) and her team from Expansive Connection join us to discuss how they have created a unique method of coaching non-monogamous people! Not only do they offer a 'judgment free' zone but they bring their certified credentials and experience in the lifestyle. Learn more about what an experience will be like with Catherine and Expansive Connection below. Expansive Connection Expansive Connection in the We Gotta Thing Community NNM Enneagram Episode 1 NNM Enneagram Episode 2 NNM Enneagram Episode 3 NNM with Catherine
Transcript
This podcast contains explicit language and content and is for mature audiences only. Hey you teenagers out there, if you're under 18, this show is more for your parents. So now that you have that mental picture stuck in your head, put some music on and get back to doing your homework. We are a long-time married couple who's decided to chronicle our personal adventures and share our sex-positive discussions as we navigate our way through the swinging lifestyle. Care to join us?
hello everyone i'm mr jones and i'm mrs jones and we want to welcome you to episode 96 of the we got a thing podcast episode 96 non-monogamy coaching by our friends at expansive connection not by us no no we're shared experiences in emotional or ethical non-monogamy we're not coaches or therapists or counselors no but thank the lord we have friends that are professional so you're going to hear from our friend katherine again who has podcasted a couple of times with us you know her from our jealousy episode and our drama in the lifestyle episode and she's one of our favorite favorite humans on the earth she is yes her business has grown and and we are having uh katherine and her team on tonight we'll talk about that a little bit later yeah okay a couple of announcements we life is getting back to normal at's springtime we're mr jones is alive that's the first announcement hello yeah the most important thing honey you're skipping ahead on the agenda i'm sorry like we've been through a lot i'm allowed to skip ahead you are but first some announcements this is not pre-recorded he's really alive we have uh an event coming up in june at the end of june in las vegas yes which will be filled up um from our community yeah so if you wanted if you're interested in joining us in las vegas at the end of june um sign up for our community at we got a thing.com because we will sell out speaking of our community do you realize that it's been almost two years since we did a any kind of a promotion or a free trial for our community yeah i remember exactly when it was yeah it was august and september no it was july july because we were out of town trying to like get it on with the friends of ours and uh you know we were inundated by signups duty with our trial right yes well we have recently um expanded our community as some of you know uh we now have 30 or 40 different special interest groups and regional groups.
We've got an internal membership website. We've got a weekend going down right now as we're recording. We do. Part of our community, about 30 or so couples are in Indianapolis right now as we speak, and they're having a lot of fun partying for the weekend. We just got a picture from all of them, like a group picture at dinner. I know, I know. Got a little bit of FOMO going on. I know. Some hot people there. At any rate, we are going to do something we have never done before because we are prepared for growth now. We are going to offer 30-day trial memberships to our community 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8.
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because we are prepared for growth now and we are going to offer 30-day trial memberships to our community through the end of may 2022 yep so if you're interested um now would be the good time to to stop what you're doing i'll even allow you to pause the podcast and go to our website and you can get monthly membership a semi-annual membership or an annual membership and you can try us free for 30 days yep i i can't um i know it sounds like we're selling something but i can't like verbally express how much our community means to us for me personally like and I think we're getting ready to touch on this, as you know from listening to our last episode, Mr.
Jones has been through some health issues and we've been through some surgery and had to deal with a lot of stuff lately. Yeah, real life stuff. Our community truly lifted us up and carried us through that they were extremely instrumental in keeping us with the the positive attitudes and the feeling that we weren't alone um our community is amazing yeah they are amazing i mean i guess i say that selfishly but um well we should go ahead and talk about it since you brought it up okay um I'll see you next time.
they are amazing i mean i guess i say that selfishly but um well we should go ahead and talk about it since you brought it up okay um i am two weeks post surgery uh no you're 11 days no by the time this is put out okay exactly two weeks as i'm looking at you you're 11 days and You're amazing.
It went as well as it could have been expected i guess i have a lot of new gray hair but yeah it was good i don't remember a thing i know i remember so the anesthesiologist and her crew of of interns came in and don't you resent the fact that just resent a little bit the fact that pretty much everybody that operated on you except the surgeon was like young enough to be our kids no i i thought it was pretty cool there was a lot of really good energy but they were super super confident in what they were doing they were extremely friendly they were very capable yeah so the first lady comes in and she says, I'm going to put something in your IV and you're going to feel like you're a little bit drunk.
I said, I'm digging this already. It's like angels, envy, blends. What are you putting in there, babe? It's like, it's like a pre-party before the anesthesia kicks in and says, this is something I'm actually going to be able to remember.
So I started getting a little bit dizzy as they wheeled me away from you and they wheeled me into down the elevator down the hall into an elevator i remember this part took me up to where the operating rooms were and they pushed me into this room and i remember going in there and there were all kinds of people in there and i said this doesn't look like an operating room it looks like a storage closet because there were there was just stuff everywhere and i was a little bit concerned i'm like this doesn't look like an operating room and they just ignored me you know because i was talking like i was drunk and i mean they're the ones that administered this to me and I was looking around just kind of you know minding my own business and and saying hello to everyone and then they put the the mask on me and they said okay take a few deep breaths and I took like three or four and she's I remember this female voice saying okay here we go and then the next thing i know it's like later that night because i don't even remember coming into recovery i don't even remember seeing you yeah yeah i have stories to tell about that yeah all right we'll go ahead no no later well so so i wake up and they're pushing me into my hospital room because i was staying overnight and my surgery wasn't until like 4 30 in the afternoon yes so they wheeled me into the the my room and they were telling me how everything works and they were you know there should be they should write these this shit down because they're i'm coming out of anesthesia and they're saying this is how you operate this is what you do.
If this happens, this is what we're going to do. And I'm listening to them, but nothing's registering in my head. I'm just like feeling pretty good. And, um, anyway, stayed overnight in the hospital, felt really good. Uh, came home the next day, fairly early in the day they released me.
It was like lunchtime when the PA came in and said that you could go home yeah yeah so so came home um to make the long story short uh we went back this past Wednesday for my post-operative pathology appointment and checkup and the surgeon said everything looks good looks like we got everything all the cancer was contained in the prostate gland there was nothing on the exterior surface of it yeah that could have potentially spread to other parts of your body right right so you're cancer free yeah right and i'm two weeks beyond that and everything's been the garden hose hose that was hanging out of my dick is now taken away.
The catheter was removed. So I'm feeling semi human again. And we actually went out tonight. We walked downtown and went out and I'm feeling somewhat human. I stood there. We had to wait for our table for a little bit. And there's a rooftop restaurant just down the street from us. And we were standing up there. It was what? Like 75 degrees. Like it could not have been better weather. It was beautiful. Yeah. And it was sunshine. And we had to wait for our table. So like you had a beer and I had a glass of wine. And I looked at you and I'm like, oh my God, you look normal. Yeah. I feel good.
Like, yeah. Yes. Yeah. So that leads me to, I want to thank everyone personally we want to thank everyone not just our community but we received emails um messages from our website um the the edification was so helpful like helpful is totally the wrong word that's completely inadequate. Like, I just don't have the words to express how your support and your, the energy you sent our way, the prayers you sent our way, the, the, you know, just. Thoughts. Yes. Good vibes. That energy was felt. Yeah. By both of us. Yeah.
Um, we got plenty of stuff in the mail um i got messages through text message and you got a lot of messages and so i have one mystery so a few days ago i got a package from amazon and and shocker we're still renovating our house so i'm ordering all kinds of shit because because we're almost done. So there's like multiple Amazon packages coming each day. So I haven't really been opening them because it's been like switch plate covers and curtain rod hooks and blah. Like really boring stuff that we can't use yet, but I'm still ordering.
So I finally got it all organized today and I was opening it and there was a sexy nurse costume in there i know and i don't know who it's from i know like usually amazon will put like a like a gift receipt in there and it'll say who the the giver was from and like i i made sure to like look in the bag to make sure i didn't miss it and it wasn't in there so somebody out there beautiful beautiful friend sent me a sexy nurse's costume and I need to thank you for it but I don't know who you are well so please come clean come clean and send me a message and I got a package too I got the half a dozen of those little eggs and I have no idea what they are or who they're from.
Oh, I know what they are. What are they? They're little masturbator eggs. Yeah, but they look like little eggs. They stretch, babe. Oh. Okay, so if you sent us something and we haven't sent you a thank you yet or a reply, please send, let us know because we don't know who to thank.
We came over from the hospital and there was this huge beautiful bouquet of flowers sitting on our i have this little table out next to the front door because like our poor postman has to come up under our porch our mailbox is on our porch so anyway i have this little table there and there was these beautiful flowers and we've gotten what soup and candy and we've gotten so many lovely gifts i have been eating stuff that's bad for me all week i know but you need calories like your your body's burning four million calories a day trying to heal right so good for you yeah so anyway the we the one of the reasons that we decided to share this much information was because we felt like it's real I'm going to show you a little bit more.
And one of the reasons that we decided to share this much information was because we felt like it's real and it's happening in real time. And if there's anybody else out there that happens to be going through this or if you need a reminder that you need to get your PSA checked, guys, this the time to do it because our, our surgeon and our urologist kept saying, um, if you would have waited another year, we would be having a different conversation right now. Right. Right.
By the time you start experiencing symptoms where you think you need to go get attention, sometimes that means that the cancer has already spread. So we were very fortunate that you were getting your blood tested. And I don't even feel like one of these cancer survivors. I mean, I had no symptoms. We had this conversation like two hours ago at dinner. I know, I don't... You're a fucking cancer survivor.
Well, I realize that, but there are so many people that have different kinds of cancer that suffer so much more than I did, and they have chemotherapy, and they have years of treatment, and they fight for their lives. You know, I had no symptoms at all. I ran a half marathon two weeks before I had surgery. Right. You dodged a bullet. Yeah, I know, but that's what I'm saying is that if you're going to have cancer, this is the way to have it and detect it early, whatever type it is. Thank you.
Yeah, I know, but that's what I'm saying is that if you're going to have cancer, this is the way to have it and detect it early, whatever type it is. The type doesn't matter. They detect it early. So get your mammograms, get your pap smears, get your PSA checked, get your colonoscopies, get your whatever, whatever you're susceptible to with your family history or just old age. And here's another piece of advice. Don't YouTube the Da Vinci robotic prostate surgery process until after you have. You're an idiot. Like, I have not watched that yet. I will never watch it.
I don't know what they did to you. It's fascinating. I just know you have six scars on your belly.
have five you have six count them okay i have five holes in my four robotics one drain and one where they removed it where they yanked your prostate out yeah but yeah wait until you have it done and then watch it it is fascinating what and now okay so this goes back to the whole waiting room or the operating room they really did not take me into the operating room because if they would have taken me into the room and i would have seen that big robot thing that's why they do that they put you to sleep before they see the thing that they're going to connect you see that what they're going to connect to you so it was like c3po right no it was worse than that it was it was like a big metallic tarantula that's what it looks like and the doctor sits off to the side with his uh goggles on and his like a joystick yeah yeah and he he does the anyway um i'm fine and thank you is is the bottom line here we're now to the point where we're focusing on recovery and rehabilitation.
And as a matter of fact, before we went into the hospital, Mrs. Jones booked us a trip for two to a sandals resort in Jamaica. Yes. At the end of May. I'm going to kidnap you and take you away.
And we're going to celebrate life exactly might happen to be my birthday weekend yeah that's right what a coincidence so i'm so i'm i'm that's my goal to have everything back into some semblance of working order by the time we get to jamaica and okay yes that would be fantastic but one thing that we're going to be, I guess, chronicling over the next few episodes is what is this journey going to look like? That's right. I mean, right now, we're just celebrating the fact that you don't have a garden hose coming out of your dick anymore. Right. Like, it's going to truly be a week at a time.
Right. And when we came back from dinner tonight and we had a cocktail before we came down here to record we were talking about how this is going to look as a couple because honestly we're probably not going to have sex for a while the The way people think about having sex. Right. So our conversations now are, what is our intimacy going to look like as a couple? How can we stay intimately connected as a couple without penetrative sex being the focal point or the end game or whatever. So what we're doing now is trying to figure out how to navigate that.
To take the pressure off of you as a male with an ego and just keep you connected to me as my life partner. Right. And as long as we can be intimate as a couple, and just keep you connected to me as my life partner. Right. And, and as long as we can be intimate as a couple, everything else is going to fall into place as your body heals. So we have no idea what we're doing or how that's going to play out, but we're going to keep you posted because we cannot be the only couple going through this.
I mean, this is new new to us and as i was telling you earlier that um you know i've i've been an advocate of good health and i and i mean like i said i ran a half marathon two weeks before i had this done only that you didn't even train for it and you kicked its ass well the point is i've been taking care of myself and and one way to have reacted to this was to be pissed off because I proactively managed my health. Why did this happen to me? But the way that I'm looking at it is my survival, my recovery, my rehabilitation is, I think, going to go so far.
I didn't take any pain medicine at all. I haven't taken any medications. Oh, honey, you took one. Come on. I know, one. Okay, right. Well okay right well they gave me four prescriptions right and you took one pill of one to see if it would do anything and it didn't so you've been a rock star so my point is that i think that you know all the work that i've done to stay healthy i'm reaping the benefits of now on the post-operative side right i think i'm going to quick quicker. I'm going to be back out exercising.
I mean, I'm going to wait the six weeks, like they say, but, but I'm, I'm an advocate. So my goal now is to like measure everything. Is it 10 pounds? Okay. You can't lift it. And so Mr.
Jones thinks if he's not lifting 10 pounds, then ex energy is is not the same thing so he's like pushing and pulling and i'm like honey i don't think you should do that yeah that's right that's exactly right like i told you i said if i reach across the table when i'm standing up and i pick up two pounds that's bad yeah so pounds is not the issue it's how you're lifting and what muscles you're using welcome to to our marriage and me trying to keep Mr. Jones at day. I mean, I haven't done anything. No, you've been good. I don't want a hernia. I don't want to. Oh, I know.
And that's what I keep saying. So you don't need to remind me. I know, but that's my job as your wife. No, your job is to. Ladies, is that my job? No, it's not. Ladies, that's my job, right? Ladies, before you interrupt, my thing is, if you see me do something that I shouldn't be doing, then you have a right to call me out on it. But I have not done anything. I have not lifted anything close to 10 pounds. No, you've been good. Right. So give me the benefit of the doubt. But maybe that's because I've been naive. No, it's because I'm motivated to get myself healthy again.
I don't need that kind of motivation. Wow. Look, okay, so here we go. I'm going to end this right now. First of all, thank you. Like I said, we have never been in this position before in our marriage. No, we haven't. You have.
We've been blessed with good health believe it or not mrs jones has been doing the laundry she's been doing the dishes she's been taking the dog out she has been taking a lot of my responsibilities away from me while i lay on the sofa no wait you haven't said the important thing what i've been cutting up the amazon boxes and getting them ready for the recycle okay so okay like for real no no so here's one story i'm sorry i have to tell so obviously when you're pre-op they have you clean out your system sorry if this is tmi but then when they let you out of the hospital they say okay one of your goals is to have a bowel movement so i come home on tuesday thursday is trash day i already had a stack of cardboard boxes already broken down on the front porch yeah and i have an alarm on my phone at five o'clock on wednesday and it says take the trash to the curb they don't come until eight stop stop so i said honey you're gonna have to take the cans to the curb because i i don't want to move them and i did that before however the stack of cardboard boxes on the front porch you said uh i'll just get get them in the morning right which is famous last words because we know what you do so the next morning i come downstairs and i hear the trash truck and the cardboard is still on the front porch so i am the main trash truck it wasn't so i am kicking i am kicking the cardboard off i come downstairs and he's kicking cardboard with this anyway anyway the moral of the story here is is when i when i heard the trash truck and I saw the cardboard still on the front porch, I instantly had bowel movement.
My stomach started cramping right away. See, I did it on purpose. So it was a good thing. I know. You're welcome. Yeah. And that started everything back moving again. The joys of being married forever. What I was trying to do before you interrupted me is to say that you have been there with me. You have done everything for me. It was easy for me to go through this because I was under anesthesia. I don't remember a thing. You were out three or four hours waiting for me.
No, it was more finish just let me finish and you know you brought me home you've been doing the driving you've been doing everything around the house you have been um you have been everything that i have needed through this experience and as a couple who's never been through this before. Now, you know, I think back of for better or worse than sickness and health. And you've been there. And I don't believe that I have appropriately expressed my sincere thank you for that.
So I want to make sure that I do that now without you interrupting me if I could have gotten on the table and done it for you I would have yeah well you don't have a prostate so that wouldn't have done as much good no but I think that you know I don't know if it's like being a female and and being a mom like I don't know if I could have gotten on that table and and gone back there and taken that burden for you, I would have, because that's my job. I'm supposed to take care of you. Well, you had two babies, so now we're even. No, your prostate weighed how many ounces?
It was like 400 and some grams. For a prostate, it was a big-ass prostate. I gave birth to a nine-pound, three-ounce baby. It was two and a half times the normal size. I'm pretty proud of it. Our second daughter's head was not uneven in comparison. I couldn't do it. I couldn't deliver it vaginally. They had to go in. I know. You don't have a vagina. Right. So, all right. All right. You win. Anyway, let's wrap this up. And you're healthy. Just a couple more things.
Podcast a palooza there are still rooms available um kate from wanderlust swingers their podcast a palooza event in palm springs california the weekend of june 3rd through 6th yes they are still there some rooms left. You need to book now. You can go to podcastapalooza.com website, or you can send me an email and I'd be glad to refer you. You can follow them on Twitter. You can find them on the Wanderlust Swingers podcast website. Anyway, if you're interested, we can't go this time.
Plenty of people in our in our community are going yep and if you are looking for a top-notch yes first class yes fun event yeah with a diverse crowd of really amazing people yeah that is the event if you're if you're listening to us and you're thinking about naughty new orleans i would i would say pcap is a better choice for for an event absolutely it's a it's a more reasonable size and i think it's just a it's just an amazing group of again like-minded people yes and lastly before we get into our segment two, we want to say happy 150 episodes to Jay and Angie from the Average Swingers podcast.
Yes. We had the honor of recording a little snippet for them that they're going to play on their 150th episode. We just want to say again, these guys started their podcast before we did. did. They are probably one of only one or two podcasts that are still going before we started ours. Yeah. They're mentors. They're friends. They're just solid quality people that we are just very honored to know. Yes. What a great couple.
you guys and if you haven't listened to the average swingers um hop on over there because it's fun but they're it it's hilarious and it's fun but when you listen there's also this extra layer of really authentic yes like realness yeah. Yeah. They talk about real shit. Right. So coming up, we have a prerecorded session with Catherine and Kel and Miche from Expansive Connection. We were honored to have a conversation with them that just goes a little bit over an hour.
You're going to learn about what Catherine has been up to in Expansive Connection, how her team has grown, some of the coaching services that they offer in the ethical non-monogamy realm. Just a great, we are so proud of her. And we can say that because we kind of like pushed and prodded and pulled her into this. Yeah, I do feel like we were somewhat responsible for encouraging her into this new arena. Yeah, and there's a really special announcement that you're going to learn about towards the end of our recording with them. So we're going to let you listen to that now.
And then we're going to come back in on the back end and read a couple of snapshots for you. All right, so stay tuned and enjoy. Well, Catherine, it's good to be back with you again.
I was was looking back in our history book in our baby book and i think we last recorded with you um let me see it was episode 54 but that was way back in 2018 and we talked about um drama and the lifestyle but then your benchmark podcast with us episode 41 on jealousy is is still one of our more popular podcasts and we've done some events together in the past few years but we haven't spoken to you in a while so it's really good to have you back. Thank you so much it's great to great to be across a microphone with you guys again. Yeah we thought it was about time because it's been a while.
And we know that, gosh, I remember, maybe it was 2016 or so 2015, where I was trying to convince you to come on our podcast. And it took a couple years. Yeah, you did some back and forth and dragging your feet a little bit. And we finally, we finally dragged you into this. But you did give consent, I have to say, for the record. And then look at you now. I mean, you're in up to your neck. And you've got a whole team in place now. It's really been amazing to watch how expansive connection, where you started and what you've evolved to.
And we're really looking forward to meeting your team and talking about what you guys are up to now. Well, thank you so much for having the idea and the faith in me and especially the patience. And absolutely for helping me launch this and meet so many amazing lifestyle couples and that have asked me to be on their journey. It's been such a surprise and fun turn in my life. And yes, it's been wonderful to have more demand than I can meet and to have brought these two phenomenal women to my practice. I'm really excited to introduce them to you guys and to your listeners.
Okay, well, let's just dive right in then. You know, I think we would love to hear from each of you just a little bit of your background story about any experience in non-monogamy, what that journey has been like, and what your professional backgrounds are. Okay, great. Well, I will start. Since there are so many voices on here, we're going to try our best to speak to who is speaking and to try to keep it in the same order so that the listeners can follow along. So this is Catherine, and my origin story is available, as you said, on episode 41.
I explain how we literally fell into the lifestyle. My husband and I've been married for 18 years, and we have now been exploring ethical non-monogamy for seven years, which is hard to believe. And through those seven years, we've done lots of different things. We've gone on different types of vacations and explored different paths. Right now, we are on an interesting path where we've been delving into exploring deeper emotional intimacy and connection with a couple of partners. So that's given us plenty of AFOLs for those that remember that from our previous episodes.
That would be another fucking opportunity to learn tongue-in-cheek. Lots of fun and lots of AFOLs. Professionally, I am a licensed counselor, a nationally certified counselor. I've been working in the field for 18 years with a wide variety of populations and different presenting issues, but have always loved couples work the most. And so when the opportunity to work with couples and ethically non-monogamous ones and ones in the lifestyle came about thanks to your prodding, Mr. Jens. It's just been such a fun journey.
I don't currently work under my license or my national certification because I want to have the flexibility to do a more therapeutic coaching style that really meets the niche of this population. I also integrate my yoga teacher training. So I do a lot of work with that through my coaching practice. And so I'm going to pass it over to Kel next. And she's going to tell you a little bit about her lifestyle journey and her professional background. Absolutely.
So my husband and I have been married for over 20 years and we met young and we married young and we had babies young and we did all of the things that makes a wonderful married life. And we really thought we had our act together. And, you know, we just had this picture perfect marriage and really actually did and enjoyed our kids and our life and our family.
And about six ago we had one of those life-changing health events that happen in families that really caused us to have to do those questions where you ask yourself about the choices you've made and the choices you haven't made and the things you're starting to regret or don't want to regret one day and one of the things that my husband didn't want to regret was the fact that we had not explored sexual play with other people being together so young um we just really had only been with each other and so he being the person that he is read all the books and researched all the websites and he came to me with this idea to which i very quickly said no and from that, it was a struggle because I'm a people pleaser and I'm a nine on the Enneagram, which we'll talk about later.
And it's not easy for me to say no and not to do what people ask of me. So my husband was amazingly respectful, but he lovingly pushed me to think about it. I spent about a week thinking about it. And in that time, I realized that it wasn't that I was saying no to the idea of playing and having sex with other people. But it was this part of me that had grown up my entire life in the church.
And that faith part of me was really deeply a part of who I was and I could not come up with a way to reconcile all those messages and all those old beliefs with this new idea and so my husband being a resource guy reached out to me and sent me podcast number 17 from We Gotta Think and I listened to that podcast about three times and what I really heard I'll see you next time. from we gotta think and I listened to that podcast about three times and what I really heard in Mrs.
Jones's story was my story and I just felt such a huge connection to the both of you to the love you shared to the faith that you still were holding on to and that you didn't feel like you had to let go of that part of you to explore this journey. And it gave me, I think, a different perspective and some courage to try it myself. So I went back to my husband and said, okay, I'll give this a try. And I said these famous words, if it doesn't work out, we can always quit. And so six years later, we haven't quit.
So then it seems like to me that your husband owes uh mrs jones a big thank you he does this is jones let me get a really big thank you we're gonna have to make that happen one day you'll probably push a thing at your feet this is jones that's a good reason but we you know've been in this about six years, and we have had some great adventures, and we have met some amazing people. And we have had some crash and burn experiences that make some really great stories over cocktails.
But through it all, we've had a marriage that's grown and gotten stronger and gotten more trusting and more dependable and more of a value to me than I ever thought possible. And so it's been a really amazing, grateful thing that's happened in our lives. And so professionally, I am a certified adult chair coach. And that's training that's related to inner parts work. It's related to childhood and trauma therapy, unpacking. It's related to kind of reworking our thought patterns. I also fell in love with the Enneagram a long time ago.
And so I have been trained with the Narrative Enneagram and also with your Enneagram coach. And if your listeners want to know more about the Enneagram without me spending hours speaking out about it, they can listen to a three-part podcast that I did along with Normalizing Non-Monogamy that I think you guys are going to link in the show notes. And they can learn about all things Enneagram through those podcasts. Yeah. So I have Enneagram training and I really love that tool for helping people grow. And also for 20 years, I've been an HR director.
And so working in HR and human resources really teaches you a lot of skills that helps with relationship coaching. I know a lot about conflict management, and I know a lot about negotiating, and I know a lot about having honest and assumption-free conversations and about goal setting. So all of those things really go into my professional background. I think it's interesting that obviously at this stage in our careers, we've worked with human resource departments. And I found it's interesting how many HR people really don't like to be around humans, but it sounds like you do.
No, I'm a very human-y human resources person, very human-y. When I went to business school, I was like, what business school can I work with people the most? And they were like, well, you're going to human resources. And I was like, okay. Thank you, Kel. It's very nice to meet you. It's very nice to meet you too. And I'm going to turn it over to Mishay now. Hi. Hi, Mishay. Okay. So, well, the Hubs and I have always had flexibility of thought around sexual boundaries in marriage. So we've been married for like 17 years and we've been together for a lot longer than that.
So when I was like 22 and we were thinking about getting married, I was like, you get to have a whole past. Like, will you talk about this? Maybe like when you're 50 or 60. I don't want you to get to like a midlife crisis and throw the baby out with bathwater. I want us to like sit down and think about it. I don't want you to get to, like, a midlife crisis and throw the baby out with bathwater. I want us to, like, sit down and think about it. I don't want you to go get, like, a Porsche and, like, a mistress. Like, I want to be included in this midlife crisis.
At least go get to ride in the Porsche with her. Can I pick out the mistress? Let me make sure she's at least hot.
So, it's like, let me, like, let me come along with you on the ride and so and vice versa and so that was something that that we talked about like even before we got married so down the road we get married i'm going through grad school and um and specializing in sex therapy and like have like this like hallelujah moment and realize like oh i'm all okay i'm bisexual and so i like coming out to to the hubs and he's like oh yeah yeah definitely that makes sense and i was like well it would have been nice if you told me um he's like you know that that makes so much sense how do we incorporate that into where we are right now and what does that look like so i want you to get like older and have all these regrets uh-huh before you go on I can't let you just say I realized I was bisexual can you just give about 30 more seconds about like did you get a hit on the side of the head did somebody you know what what happened at that point in time that you realized it?
Um, I think I was like going through, uh, the sexuality personalities part, a portion of my, my textbook, cause I was in school at the time and it was just like lightning.
And for a quick moment, I realized, oh my my gosh they're talking about me okay and um it gave me the ability to let go of like an older relationship that kind of still had like a hook in me that i couldn't figure out why i couldn't forgive this person or move on or even talk to them and so i was just able to like release all of that and because you realized you were in love yeah i was in love with her i was like yeah i'm sorry i apologize later on um so yeah so my husband was like, yeah, I was in love with that one. I'm sorry. Got it. Got it. I apologize later on. So, yeah.
So my husband was like, oh, yeah, yeah. No, no, that makes sense. And it would have been really great if he had told me, saved me some heartache. And I'm guessing, a lot of guessing. Well, you know, us husbands learn that we can't suggest those things. We have to let you come to these conclusions yourselves. That's what it is. Anyway, so grad school finishes.
We spent like the next three years talking about what this would look like and kind of just realized that the lifestyle or E&M in some capacity would have to become part of our story um and so like the sweet person he is he let me let me try or play first um and then he decided to join me on that path um and so that's been fun um professionally i've always been fascinated by marriage and the various constructs and societal scaffolding we put around marriage. I think in some form I would have always ended up in the lifestyle or with E&M just because I'm really flipping curious.
So we've dabbled in swinging, adding extra people, dating separately all at the same time because why not? So it's one of the reasons I became a marriage and family therapist. I'm just really curious. And I love how marriage journeys get to be defined and curated for that individual couple. And I love helping people define what that journey is and what their words are around that. Professionally, I'm a professional counselor and a marriage and family therapist. I'm certified in sex therapy and trauma therapy. And in the E&M or lifestyle world, I operate more freely as a coach.
So that's the capacity I'm operating under now. And I've worked with individuals from all E&M paths and I've really enjoyed the love for coupledom that the lifestyle has. It's just really kind of cool to see people love each other well i've been trained in dbt which is dialectical behavior therapy which we'll talk about later on um yeah i gathered this amazing group of ladies well so my next question would have been catherine can you like walk us into that because you you've gone from maybe not a little bit resistant to get into this field yourself. And now there are three of you.
So help fill in the gap there. Absolutely. Well, the beginning of that is, of course, you continuing to gently pressure me and be patient and have faith in me. And what I found is you encouraging me to tell my story and also offer my therapeutic services, it just really resonated with people. I think it was the combination of the fact that I'm actually walking this journey myself and my willingness to share my stories. Ironically, in grad school, I used to get in trouble all the time for what they call self-disclosure. And I used to get in trouble for that all the time.
But in this world, people really love hearing our stories and hearing that we are the ones having the fight in the elevator at the PCAP event. And we put on the big smiles when you guys open the door. They like to know that we struggle and we're normal too. So I think that that combination of me actually being in it and being willing to share seemed to really resonate with people on this path. And it's so much so that I soon found that I had more demand than I could meet and keep a balance in my life.
And so So between that and also because I'm such a collaborative, extroverted person, I felt lonely owning my own business by myself. And my poor husband just got tired of being my only sounding board, I think. So I wanted to, once the demand was up, I knew I wanted to bring people on. I also hired an amazing business administrator and all of us are active in our own ethical non-monogamous journey. And so that meant a lot to me that anybody that I pulled onto my team would be doing that same thing. I'll tell you a bit about why I chose these two and my story with them.
Kel is actually a former client, which she'll tell you a bit about.
And it was really was really wonderful to very early on I could tell that she had this very unique ability to see her own shit I mean uncanny ability to do that so as a coach I often talk about that my spot is on the top row of the bleachers and I can watch people down in their game struggling and because it's not my game I can see the patterns and it's you know pretty easy to sit up there and be able to say hey run left go right kelly was able to do that not only for the people in her life that she was talking about but she was able to do that for herself it's like she could walk herself up to the top row of the bleachers and watch her own game at the same time uncanny and so as we were working together I was just like you should be doing what I'm doing she's like I was like no I'm serious then I had the opportunity to work with her husband who also agreed with me that she's amazing at this and so once the adult chair which I've talked about on the drama episode once they decided to do, apparently Kel Pelzis tells me that her husband and I both sent her the email within five minutes of each other and said, do this.
And so she said, okay, okay, fine. So she did this amazing certification and I watched her go through this and coached her through it. And then knowing that she had this passion for the Enneagram and also as another fellow recovering codependent, I knew that she would bring those skills to the table. Misha and I had the opportunity to meet as colleagues working on some other projects. And so we had a chance to, I guess we were working together for probably two years before I officially invited her to join my practice.
And during that time, I was able, I was just really drawn to how her approach is very, she's very calm and pragmatic, super smart, really fun, and just so real. Of course, I love that she's got the background in therapy and marriage and family therapy, sex therapy, trauma, DBT. These are skills and talents that I wanted to offer to my clients along with the ones that Cal brings to the table. So with that, we've created this holistic and collaborative practice where our clients can get the best of all the things that we offer, which we'll continue to tell you about. Great.
And then I was thinking that maybe I could put them on the spot and ask them to tell you why they said yes when I asked. What about this thing that I've created? I can answer that because you're a hard person to say no to, Catherine. It's one to know on Mr. Jones.
You're a hard one to say no to as well well i'll say a little about why i um was open to the idea when katherine um really suggested harvard that i become a coach and join her on this journey um as katherine shared i was a client and um as i mentioned to you guys when i was telling my story about lifestyle, I also was a regular listener to you guys podcast. So as we continued our journey in the lifestyle, I continued listening to, we got a thing.
And about the time, um, that I got to episode 41, where Catherine came to talk to you guys about jealousy, my husband and I had come into a place in our lifestyle journey where it had gotten hard and we really were lucky the first, you know, probably four or three or four years of our journey.
We really didn't have that many struggles and things really kind of went well for us until we got to this place where we met another couple and the four way connection wasn't four wayway and the connection between my husband and this other woman was very intimate and very strong and became very emotional. And I just had no tools for what to do in that moment. And I went into fight or flight hard and all of my parts were on fire and I was struggling and my husband was struggling with me struggling. And so I heard Catherine on your podcast and let my husband listen to it too.
And he immediately said, send her an email. And I said, there's no way she'll take me as a client. And he said, you never know. So I emailed Catherine and asked if she had to base our calendar and she did. And we started working together very, very intensely. And really I came to to her and said, you know, make this better. And what she did through her coaching was helped me develop tools for myself to take care of myself. And nothing really changed in the circumstance. You know, it eventually changed and we moved on and, you know, different things in our lifestyle journey changed.
But after 30 times. Yeah. But I was able to work on myself. And so, you know, I really got so much value from that, not just because Catherine was warm and compassionate as a coach, but because she understood the struggles of the lifestyle that I was having. And I didn't, I could have gone to a sex positive therapist in my town. I could have found an open-minded coach that understood what the lifestyle was, but wasn't in it.
But I knew that if I did, when I went and said, you know, I'm really triggered when I see my husband, you know, involved with this other woman sexually, their instinct was going to be, well, how about you don't have your husband involved with another woman sexually? That wasn't what I wanted. And so I really needed someone that wasn't going to tell me that that was the problem, but that was going to help me deal with the feelings and the emotions and the thoughts that I had about that. And that's what Catherine was able to do.
Another thing about working with Catherine that was so beneficial, you know, that was something I wanted to be able to offer when I was a coach was an understanding of the language. You know, I didn't have to explain to her what, you know, the move from soft swap to full swap and the information about a hall pass or all of the things that happened, what a four-way connection was. She knew the terminology. And so when I accepted her prodding to get my coaching certification, I knew I wanted to be able to offer that to people, too.
I wanted to be able to take this experience that's been wonderful, but hard and be a soft place or a safe place for people to have and to be able to have conversations where they didn't have to explain themselves so in depth. that I understood the language and I'd been there myself and to be able to have conversations where they didn't have to explain themselves so in depth and I understood the language and I'd been there myself and to be able to offer tools and tips that I myself had learned to them and to be able to share that story for good for others. So that's why I said yes to Catherine.
Michelle, what about you? Well, she's gorgeous. It's okay, I'll do the work for you.
okay so katherine just appeared super dramatic and poised and she's fucking smart as hell and anyone who like actually gets to hear her loves her examples loves how real she is um i've worked with people who remember her being on your podcast and like the lingo she uses and they'll use that when they're talking with me which is pretty cool so also anyone who knows me knows my favorite subject is sex and so when I met her being able to talk to another therapist and use the lingo and then figure out oh this is a path for people to improve their marriages and to keep working on creating that yumminess.
And she's figured it out when she's about scaffolding and she wants to help people. I was like, sign me up. So that worked for me. Not to mention, we'd also worked on some other projects before then. And so we got to bounce off of each other and see how we worked together before she even asked me to come on. So that was, that was pretty phenomenal.
So, you know, I want to really, gosh, I'm, I'm trying to be patient and not interrupt with a lot of questions, but you know, you're, I love the fact, because we hear all the time that people are struggling and, you know, we get emails and they're asking us to do your job and I'll see you next time. the fact, because we hear all the time that people are struggling and, you know, we get emails and they're asking us to do your job and that we're woefully inadequate. Yes. Yeah. We, we always say we're not qualified to help you with that, but we know someone who is.
But, but what, what they always say is that what kind of what Kel mentioned was, I want to go to somebody who isn't going to judge me, isn't going to tell me not to do this anymore, isn't going to dismiss this as something that's just weird and out of the realm of possibility. and not only that, just don't have any background, you know, a lot of therapists that don't know about this tend to just keep it at arm's length. It's not even anything that people could get help with.
So the fact that, you know, maybe you could describe for us the types of clients that come to you and how you interact with interact with them okay sure um i'm gonna i'm gonna break that into two um first we'll talk a little bit about those clients and then we'll give you some more kind of the nuts and bolts about what it what what people can expect when they engage with us so i would say my ideal client is an ethical non-monamous client, whether that's an individual or a couple, people who are ready to have been brave enough to push limits and boundaries that society put on us about how relationships should work.
I love that bravery. I love that they've already done a lot of work. They've already done hard communicating to even talk about this with each other. And I find that these people and these couples and Morsems, they're just, they're already so far along on their journey to be their best selves that it's really fun that I get to jump in then. Now, the way that I really know this is that oftentimes my ethically non-monogamous or lifestyle clients will say, hey, can we refer you to our neighbors, my sister-in-law, da. And hey, don't tell them anything about how we know you. Okay.
So then, and I've done this many times. So then I work with their, you know, quote, vanilla neighbors. And I like like to give the example like i'm a sixth grade math teacher right and i've been asked to go and substitute first grade and i'm so excited because i've got this great project to do with them and i bring in all my supplies and i'm so ready and then i slap my forehead and i'm like oh these kids don't know how to multiply okay right so let's teach them how to multiply then we can do the fun stuff. It's not like that with ethically non-monogamous or lifestyle couples.
They already know how to multiply. They're good. They're great. They already know how to do this. So that is just super fun for me to work. That's why I love working with that population. How about for you, Kel? I think I agree a lot with what you're saying. I think for me, I love working with couples that really want to make things better. You know, it's not a blame thing. It's not fix him or fix her. It's fix us. You know, and they're so committed to the beautiful relationship that they've built. And they want to protect it. And they think it's so precious. And it is.
And I think that the fact that they are coming and saying the way we're showing up isn't working. The way we're talking to each other isn't working. The way we're reacting to each other isn't working. Help us figure out better ways. And to me, that's just that's my coaching love language. Yes. Let me. That sounds great.
I also I love working love working with individuals too especially when they get to that place where by themselves they've tried everything that they know and they're just out of ideas and so they just come and say you know help me figure this out help me walk alongside me and give me ideas teach me new tools teach me tricks teach me things that i just don't know's just such a humility in that, that I just really love. And I really like working with people who just with real vulnerability and humility are ready to do the hard work to improve their lives.
And I just really, really enjoy that kind of client. Michelle, what about you? My ideal client is someone who's ready to do the work which is this community um even if it's just educational or being held lovingly accountable processing through the enm respatches we all face so that's like insecurity performance anxiety hyper vigilance religious inner critic negative self-thought and i love that this community has flexibility of thought. That's kind of cool. Yeah.
So those are, those are the kinds of clients we love to work with, which I'm sure you can see that's very reflective of your community. So let me tell you a little bit about how it works when people reach out. Is that what that? Yes. Yeah.
So most people find find us through our website which we will put in the show notes so they can make that an easy click and that goes that they get connected with our business with our amazing business administrator and she starts the process from the get-go that means so much to us about empowering clients to make decisions for themselves and listen to their gut about what feels right for them. We don't want to be, we aren't super advicey or prescriptive. We work with people, hold up mirrors, offer ideas, but this is their journey.
They will always be the experts on themselves and their relationships. We have that clinical experience. We have this way of surrounding and helping them, but we want them to feel very empowered. And so in that way, she shares the information about all three of us and encourages them to see which one of us resonates kind of gullible. And also sometimes it's about schedule, who's got openings and where it works and that sort of thing. And then once they book with one of us, we always tell them they're welcome to work with a different one of us for any number of reasons.
So the studies show that 80% of the efficacy in therapy between a client and a therapist has to do with chemistry and connection. And any of us in the lifestyle get that, how important chemistry is.
That's another one of my favorite episodes of yours, by the way way and so if somebody meets with me and you know it's okay but like it just isn't quite landing there's no ego there please go and spend some time with kel spend some time with michelle see if there's a better connection we have done this where we've moved people around and it's a much better fit or sometimes people will work with one of us and i'll say listen i want you to go do the Enneagram experience with Kel and then bring your numbers back and we'll integrate that into our work.
Or, you know, you're getting really emotionally flooded in play situations. I want you to go do some DBT work with Miche and we're going to bring those skills back in and make plans for you as a couple. We always have our clients sign a release where that allows them to talk that we can talk about them with each other. This isn't in a gossipy way or anything like that, but it gives us an opportunity to be collaborative. So one time Kel said, I really need some resources about anger management. I just don't tend to struggle too much with outbursts of anger, but my client really is.
So she staffed that with me and we came up with ideas. I gave her a list of some resources. So we feel like that our clients then get to have the benefit of all of us because of that collaborative approach. I'm going to have Nise share with you some of the nuts and bolts of working with us, and then we'll send it over to Kel to explain kind of what we call the extensive connection way. Okay, so we have different session types. We have individuals, couples, more sums, and our sessions last 60 to 90 minutes. The frequency is that you decide.
We prefer, all of us, that like for the first month that we see each other more than once, that allows other people to get to know our personality and for us to get to know them know. So Miche, I'm sorry, I just want to clarify. So you meet with singles, couples and more sums, meaning groups of people. Can you just explain that a little bit? Yeah. So sometimes people in the lifestyle will have like a certain couple that they form a little bit more of an attachment with.
And maybe there might be some discord or some things that they need to work out or some rules or boundaries and so that's something that needs to happen where they need an extra person to come in and just create some scaffolding around that relationship we can okay okay um okay and then at the end of each session we give you all resources while you're in session, we want you in the chair present, totally focused on whatever's going on. So we'll take notes and we take those notes and we send them to you. And then we have podcasts, homework, copies of the session.
So you'll get audio and sometimes visual copies of our session. It's kind of nice to go back a little bit and maybe hear yourself or maybe even go back and see your partner when you're not flooded and then you can actually hear them a little bit better. So the second time around is just as sweet. Although let me say, no one has ever said, wow, it's so great to go back and listen to myself. But it is very good to go back and listen to myself. It's uncomfortable as well, but it is so helpful.
It's like getting two or three more therapy sessions if you're willing to go back and listen to themselves it's uncomfortable as well but it is so helpful it's like getting two or three more therapy sessions if you're willing to go back and listen to it yeah don't we know it does it ever get any any easier listening to yourself no well no no no no when when people tell you you're the sexiest voice on iTunes, that has to help your ego a little bit. Oh, well, yeah, it does. But, I mean, seriously, like every episode is a therapy session for Mr.
Jones and I, just sitting across the IKEA desk that you're looking at back behind us. You know, we say things sometimes that we don't know are going to come out of our mouths. Yeah, and then I get to go back when i edit and listen to it again and i listen to it to your point michelle i listen to it from a production standpoint but then i go back and i'll listen to it from a content standpoint and so many times i've come back to mrs jones and said i wish i would have been listening to you more when you said that because i was thinking about what I was going to say next.
And what you said was really interesting and amazing. And so just listening back to our own podcast, I've learned she's really good at it. I'm not as good at it, but I've learned to really try to listen to her because if you're being recorded and you know people are going to listen, Kelly, you'll appreciate this. We tend to stay in the adult chair because we know we're being held accountable or supervised. And that really helps us communicate because we don't devolve. If we do, we have to turn the microphone off and then come back later. Which we've done.
Which we've done, like Catherine said, in the elevator at an event somewhere that does happen. So yeah, that's a really interesting method. And we can certainly relate to that ourselves. Yeah, we have found that it is a really fantastic follow-up resource for our clients. It's something that we can tell when they go back and listen, how quickly and how much they absorb what we're talking about. We can really see that they get these things faster when they do that. Right. We also have educational tools.
So these are courses we've created like mentoring the orgasm, relationship free camp, and the Enneagram experience to highlight just a few, which allow us to be cost effective. So we tend to record new things that come up really frequently. This makes it super affordable and accessible to everyone because this community often has like similar struggles. So let's just make it easy and really just, you know, we can take that then in the next session and build off of that. And we all have an easy platform and somewhere else to start from.
And then that also allows us just to really monetize off of our live time with our clients. We do like to mention that although we are licensed, we do not operate under the scope of our license. This keeps us super flexible and free to work with the individuals we want to work with and create community with that. So that also means we do not accept insurance. Thank you. This keeps us super flexible and free to work with the individuals we want to work with and create community with that. So that also means we do not accept insurance. I'm sorry, you don't accept what? Insurance. Oh, okay.
Yeah, but I'm okay. This is my editorial here, but that's got to make you so much easier to talk to. um and i and i know a license there's credibility that comes with that but there's also a kind of a fence, you know, around that as well. And my thought is that it must, well, let me ask you, you know, does that make it easier for you to talk about things in a different way than you otherwise would if you had to be under your license? Oh, definitely.
I think there was just so much more freedom and flexibility and nobody has to worry about like their bosses coming down and seeing this, or if you're in the military, this doesn't have any blowback. It's just, it's just easier. Right.
And if we have clients that we feel are in need of some of the the benefits that that sense that you say offers such as diagnosis or that extra supervision or being in a more narrow scope of what's what's being discussed then we absolutely encourage people refer people and a lot of times we'll even say listen if you have great insurance and you could go do some individual work with somebody that's in your coverage go do that and then use your your the the self-pay for us because of this niche thing that you all do in your spare time and so we we are very much encouraging of people and are glad that there are still people working under their license and think it's wonderful but for the type it's such it's usually such a high functioning population and they're working on such specific goals that and many people have their own mental health counselors to support them with med management and um and those sorts of things so it's certainly not that we're dogging on that it's just that for the population and what their goals are it is so nice for us to have that flexibility.
Absolutely. Right. So we do something on our podcast called Snapshots. And really, I think a lot of people learn just from hearing stories and illustrations.
Could you do us a favor or maybe a parable is a word that's more appropriate in this conversation I love the fact that you can learn something from a story when you can put yourself you know when you see yourself in that person's shoes so would you all be able to talk about give us an illustration give us an example of what a session might might be like I will what I thought we'd do here is we would each um brag a bit about our superpower if you will okay so i can fly that's my superpower on a broom yeah so we're pretty much a marvel movie I don't sleep really well so the um so i would say that my superpower is being able to see communication relational patterns as i said my i like to think of myself at the top of the bleachers then it's like i have one ear tuned to your emotional content and the other ear in my eyes can see what's happening without getting marred down in those details.
And so because I can sit up there and see that scene, then the way that I tend to work with people would be to identify issues that I see coming up. Many of the people that come to me are coming to me in high functioning codependent relationships, which I'll explain what that means in a second. And that's worked really well until they get into the lifestyle. And then that codependency starts to become problematic. So if you're wondering if you're codependent, this is one of my favorite ways to ask you. See if this resonates. I can't be okay until you're okay.
So can you hurry up and be okay so I can be okay? Okay? Got it. Okay? So once we identify some of the ways that their codependency is getting in their way, then I teach about attachment and help them to understand what happens when their brain, often their Amy G. Dala, as we've talked about it, perceives threats to their attachment. And as I said, perceives. So if our lid is flipped and we're going from the middle of the brain, the amygdala, seeing our partner have a sexual connection with someone else could seem very threatening.
When our lid is on, we remember that we were the one that set up the whole date in the first place, right? So that perceived threat to attachment. Then once that's happening, then I help to introduce them to their inner parts or characters. Again, we talked about this some on the drama podcast and Kel is certainly an expert on this.
And I work to help them understand these parts that are fighting inside them and the parts that when those when they are fighting and disagree make us feel crazy so this is where one part is saying hey I'm going to set up this whole this whole scenario and hey honey why don't you go down on her and then a split second later another part says shit fuck damn what is she doing grabs him by the head and yates him off of her and you're going oh my god i'm so psycho crazy no you just have parts that are not they're not are not on the same page so we work to personify those parts and um help you keep your lid on again the brain in the hands um analogy that we've talked about before once that lid is on then we is on, then we can access higher level communication skills that are tailored to uniquely fit those clients.
And then, of course, I also, being a dorky yoga teacher, I bring in a lot of breath and mindfulness and meditation and those sorts of things. So those are the superpowers that I use with my clients. How about you, Kel? So my superpower really is, like Catherine said, the ability to be on the top row of the bleachers for my own self that I've created. That's how people have their own light bold moments. If I can bring them up and let them do that same thing where they see and a couple sees where they're running into each other and then they get to make the choices to stop doing that.
And so, you know, let's just say I have a couple come in for three different sessions, and it might look three different ways. The first time they come in, they might say, you know, we just don't see things the same way, and we don't use the same language, and we just don't share the same behaviors, and I would never act the way he's acting in this situation, and I'd never forget about her the way, you know, she forgot he's acting in this situation. And I'd never forget about her the way, you know, she forgot about me in this play situation.
And so my first gut is let's do some Enneagram work because your personalities are different and you aren't the same. And let's let go of that illusion that you are and let's really deal with how different you are. And so we'll do a session where we figure out how their personalities are different and they can learn some language around, well, this is how I see this and this is how you see this. And we don't change it. We just learn. And I know now that we do this differently. So we develop some tools and some ways to communicate around that, to do that a little better.
And we stop assuming the worst because you're not behaving like me and just realize you're just you. And if that same couple comes back and they have some codependent tendencies that are getting in their way of really they served them for a long time and now they're in the way of their lifestyle goals, we go back and we say, you know, why did you create these tendencies? Well, they were protecting something valuable for you back then. Let's create new ways to protect this relationship you have.
Let's create some new safety with secure attachment and some interdependent relationships without being so enmeshed. And so we do that work. And then like Catherine talked about, I do a lot of adult chair training. I really access that with my clients around these inner characters with parts work. And parts work is just in a nutshell. If a couple comes to me and again, they're sabotaging their play, what's usually happening is a really old part of them, something that they develop as a child to protect them, is still there. And it doesn't realize that these are now adults.
And so when something threatening happens, like seeing your wife with another woman, that old part of you that wants to protect you comes online and starts to sabotage Thank you. When something threatening happens, like seeing your wife with another woman, that old part of you that wants to protect you comes online and starts to sabotage the whole thing and starts being a real asshole. And suddenly that's causing problems for you and for your partner and these wonderful people that you're playing with are all not having a good time.
And the work for parts work is to go and find that part and to really lovingly and gently explain, I got this now and I don't need you to protect me anymore. And in fact, here's what I'm going to do to protect myself. And here's why you don't have to keep showing up the way you're showing up and to do that work together and to be really conscious. And then when you feel that part want to come back, you've got some tools and some tips to help that part stay where they need to go and let you enjoy your good time. So that's really my way of working with clients with my superpower.
How about you, Michelle? Besides flying, the sexy, we see communication styles and patterns. Have you guys seen the movie Couples Retreat?
Yes that movie so um so when i say communication styles i like to build language around how couples talk to each other so it's really unique to them so the example i use is like like for rejection because i'm like i'm i'm definitely the higher like i want all the sex right now and my husband's like yeah i'd like to sleep to you so um we have like we've built a language around this like one particular part in the movie so i don't know if you guys remember but there's like a black couple in the movie and he's dating like this really really young girl and she's like let's go back and we're gonna have sex and he was like and she was like are you sure you're gonna do this this time and he was like uh-huh she's like we're not going to sleep he's like right and he's like validating all the stuff and she gets up to walk away and the camera pans to him and you see him like rolling his eyes and he's like so tired poor guy um and so instead of like my husband being like oh like i want to, right?
Like, we've coined it to be, like, a phrase where he'll just be like, mm-mm, we're not going to bed. I know he's lying. We're totally going to bed. It just lands better inside of me. And it feels joky that he's like, I love you. You're hot. I want to do this. I'm also, like, falling asleep where I stand.
So, like, that's our communication communication the rejection doesn't feel stingy to me and I like to figure out a way to transplant that for other people like whatever that language is for you that where the stingy bits don't sting they just land pleasantly in your lap you're like oh that's what that is that's what I want to create for you um so I also enjoy challenging couples and helping them to be on the same page in E&M. One of the other ways I do this is incorporating DBT skills for managing heightened emotions.
So being able to check the facts when your brain wants to lie to you when you're going on separate experiences or when you look across the room and see your partner fully engaged in their passionate encounter. I also bring trauma and communication styles into awareness in order to ask for what you want in a way that keeps you and your values feeling heard and respected. I like being able to walk away from a fight feeling like, oh, I'm still in my values.
Like I'm firm, but I'm in my values i like that right um grounding techniques and um my process is just to hold up a mirror for you in the context of vnm and make sure your journey matches your goals and your desires yeah i you know as you guys as you ladies are speaking i can't help to think that not only are these couples improving their relationship But as individuals, you know, the resources and the tools that you're giving them, you know, are going to benefit them potentially in other areas of their lives, too.
When you know which chair you're sitting in, you know what it feels like when your lid is flipped. You know, those are things that we carry into day-to- day life that we realize, I really got my money's worth from those ladies, because it's really helped me in all aspects of my life, not just my relationship. Absolutely. We so many people come to us through the through the lifestyle or ethical non monogamy.
But I so often we end up talking about parenting or being their annoying boss or deciding if they're going to stay at their job or how they were able to keep their lid on at their family thanksgiving or things like that so these skills are absolutely transferable thank you for bringing that up you know um catherine we've um collaborated before like like we said we we've done some presentations before and every time you you work with us um when we the three of us get into the room and we get into a front of a group of people it just seems like we have um some sort of um connection um we have chemistry yeah we have chemistry yeah exactly and so um i as a matter of fact i think it was maybe it was pcap catherine was standing in the back of the room and and you you and i got up front and i can just see her inching up towards the front like i want to be and she came yeah she is it okay if i sit up here with you guys And we said, of course, it's okay if you come up and sit with us.
And we love that. We love that about you. I'm wondering if you've thought about what it is about our listeners and our community and our message and comparing that to the mission that you have with Expansive Connection and what you ladies are working for, how do you see these as complementary? What is it about your message and ours that you think resonates so well? Yeah, absolutely. That professional chemistry.
When the three of us get around a microphone or in front of a group of people it really is magic and I can I definitely feel it the ripple effect of that when people from your listening audience or your community your online community come and see me it just it's like we're already old friends there's just this resonance and know, I think it probably has to do with all three of us being willing to be vulnerable, again, sharing our stories, a mixture of laughter, healthy self-deprecation, but also being willing to say and talk about the work we've done in a way that we're proud of.
So I think the combination of all that, it seems to resonate with the same people. I think maybe the way we'll, maybe one of the ways that we can answer this is we can, I can explain a little bit. I'm actually going to have Kel do this because she does it so well. When we, when it was, after it was just me, when I said, okay, we're, this is not just Catherine, this is expansive connection. I was challenged to create the expansive connection way. What does that mean? So that I could present it to Kel and present it to Miche and see if this is something they wanted to do.
And then of course, now that they're with me, we've, we've really honed this. So let me, let me share that mission and we can each share a little bit about what we've loved about working with with people in your community and why they feel like such a good fit for us okay so i'll do that um so really what we we have four parts of the expansive connection way that i think are so important and i think they're going to resonate when you hear them and that's why you can understand going to understand why we love your community.
The first is that we really believe in an integrated coach, integrative coaching style. You know, our romantic relationships don't live in vacuums. And when we work on them, like you were saying, it translates into these other areas. And if we can learn to keep our lid on with our partner, we can do it with our kids. And if we can stop being so codependent and fixy and pleasy with our partners, it really helps us in our parenting roles and with our employees or with our siblings or with our parents. And so we want to work with clients to give them tools that help all their relationships.
And we don't just want to work, help them work to change their behaviors, but we want to help them change their thoughts and their feelings that go along with those behaviors. And also, you know, like Catherine said, we all believe in the somatic tools. You know, our bodies are where all of these things live and they're really the driving force. And so we want to do some healing around that as well. The other thing is that we really stress interdependence in relationships. You know, we don't want people to show up in these codependent, enmeshed style of relationships.
We're the opposite, which is this completely independent, isolated way of relating. But we want to teach people about the value and the beauty of interdependence, and we want them to strive for that in their relationships. As we've talked about so much, we are really collaborative. So when all of our clients sign these releases, we're going to each give our best for those clients. And we're going to use all of our knowledge and our skills to best serve them. And we're going to recommend that if they really need training with PBT, they're going to go to Miche.
And if they want to work on some inner parts, they might talk to me. And then if there's some serious codependent issues, we're going to let them talk to Catherine or any of us. And we're going to really use all of the things that we bring to the table to help that client. And lastly, we are so committed to being a nonjudgmental place. You know, you just talked about when you hear from your people in your community, they're like, I want to go to someone, but I don't want them judging me for these choices. And I don't want them to tell me that being the lifestyle is wrong.
That is our place to be. We are not going to tell our clients what they alone know, which is the path that's best for them and their relationships. And so whether they're exploring swinging or dating separately, or even if they're transitioning back to monogamy, we are there to support them, whatever path they're on. And we know that they are the experts and we just want to offer support to them in whatever place that is. So we're not going to be judgmental. We're just going to be a resource. And that's really what we've come up with is the experience of connection way.
So my short answer to why I love working with your clients is they're already sixth graders and they know how to multiply. They have advanced degrees in communication. I think that they are generally very well educated, well-spoken. They are savvy consumers and they have a strong inner voice and an inner knowing, which usually leads to a good ego strength, meaning they can hear a suggestion of mine and decide if it works for them or not, not just do it just because Catherine said so. I don't want that much power.
So those are things about your population, your community, when I've worked with them, that feels like it resonates can i ask in a different way i think i like your sixth grader first grader illustration but i think you mentioned to me one time it's like you you're not starting from scratch so maybe you're saving three or four or five or six sessions because the starting point that you have and the ending point isn't as far away and i think think that's what you're saying when you're meeting sixth graders. Yeah, we're halfway there. It's fun for sure.
What I really think is the best thing about working with your community, and I have several clients that are part of that, is that they truly want to work on the places where they're tripping each other and themselves up. They want to work in those places. And I think another thing is that the love and devotion and affection that I know you guys see in that group for each other is so beautiful. These are couples that truly are devoted and love and just the connection they have to each other is just so inspiring to me. And it's just something I love being a part of.
And, you know, I think to be the vulnerability that they have with each other, the way that they're able to trust and be honest and share, you know, the things that they're working on together. And then to let me be present to that is just, you know, like you said, that's a really we're halfway there. When they're being vulnerable with each other and they're bringing me into that vulnerability, we can get a lot of stuff accomplished in a short time. So I think that's what I love. Mishay, what about, what do you think is best about this community?
I love that the community is invested in personal growth, communication and mutual support.
Their desire to tackle hard subjects and sit in uncomfortable situations is pretty phenomenal um i also love how this community is dedicated to stoking the fire of desire for like not just now but like for the future um so it's not a death of sexiness which i'm not saying exists in theogamous relationships but it's like really easy to let that happen so there's just like that continual push for like what's yummy what's sexy and how do we continue to do that where neither one of us is triggered so i i think that's pretty awesome you also done a great job well we're we're beneficiaries of it as well.
Um, and you know, I, um, we're beneficiaries of it as well. And, you know, we're really excited, especially to talk about what we want to talk about next. We're excited that Catherine, you and your team at Expansive Connection has decided to collaborate with us inside of our members community.
And, you know, our community is growing um rapidly and we want to grow with it and we want to provide resources for them when they need it because we're only two people and we're not professionals as we said before that's right so it you know you you and i talked before about wouldn't it be really cool if expansive connection had a group within our community and you and i talked about that a little bit and and i think it's going to become a reality so you guys want to talk about your ideas for what that's going to look like absolutely um we're really excited that you that you you had this idea and it has just fueled it's put so much fire under our butts and has got it's gotten us all of our creative juices flowing um so we've decided to take you up on this offer to lead a subgroup and we're going to call it the expansive connection coaches corner probably by the time people are in there, it'll just be Coach's Corner because that is a heck of a mouthful.
Not the fun kind. Yeah, not the fun kind. So for us, the point of this subgroup will be to gather people who are really interested in the growth edge that's offered by the lifestyle so afol oh yeah there's so many afols remember another fucking opportunity to learn in the lifestyle and for us it's really fun when we see the couples where that light switch goes off when they've committed to the growth and not just the sex and fun of the lifestyle. Of course, the sex and fun needs to be there, and it's probably what gets most of us there.
But when people stop going, oh, why are we having struggle here? Should we just get out? And they say, of course we're having struggle here. Ooh, let's grow. Let's roll up our sleeves and work on them. But when you can see positive kickback from the growth edge that's offered, that is juicy and exciting. And when people are able to do that, if they have a, quote, bad play experience, then at the end of the day, it's actually not a bad thing because they come together as a team and they do the, you know, Monday morning quarterbacking, what went well, what didn't, what do we need to harvest?
What will we do better next time? What do I wish I had done? And through that, it continues to cement their bond, even from a quote, bad play experience. They're still good in that. And when people make that switch, then the lifestyle just gets juicier and juicier. The other thing for me, one of the goals that I have for this is you all often say, you know, what's your thing? What I find is a lot of your people forget to find their own thing because you are such amazing role models.
They think that the best way, the only way is to do it the way you do it and so they're like okay here we go pencil sharpen I will act like Mrs. Jones like this and I will do what Mr. Jones does oh don't do that then Mr. and Mrs.
Jones and they have different kinks or excitements or pleasures or desires and it doesn't work so well and then they beat themselves up because their thing isn't exactly like your thing and it's not supposed to and you guys have never said that but people forget that all the time so I hope in our in our subgroup that we really encourage people to explore what is their thing how about for you Kel well as I mentioned I've already got some clients that are in your community.
And something that happened with these clients separately is that as we were talking about the struggles that they were having and the places they were bumping into each other, in different sessions, they both mentioned to me that it was really hard for them because they felt like they were the only ones in the we got a thing community that were messing it up and i just laughed and laughed i was like why do you think that and they said well everybody's just done their work and they all are showing up and they're so happy and none of them are leaving and fighting the whole way home from the weekend in the car.
And I said, yeah, they are. They're in the hallway before they get into the elevator or get into the car. And some of them are crying while they put their clothes on before they get into their house. And so the idea that for me to normalize, this is hard.
And it's hard for everyone at some point and it's supposed to be like Catherine said the growth is in the heart but I really hope that by offering this place in your community that people that are coming into or do come into or have come into some of those hard places can find people that also want to talk about how they are in those or have been in those. And they can be vulnerable with each other and they can recognize it's not just us. These people that we know also are struggling.
Or maybe these people we don't know that are in a different group or in your Canadian group or your West Coast group, but they're struggling too. And there can be some of that like, well, that's us too. And it's like you said, when people hear each other's stories, they don't feel so alone and they start to share and that helps other people to feel not so alone and other people to grow. And we shift watching other people shift.
And so I really want this community to be able to get access to the tools that we'll have to help them all and to be able to have that community of people that are in it together getting dirty and struggling and showing back up every time even a little bit maybe a little bit battered and bruised but still there and committed and really to say that each of us the three women that you're talking have all had struggles in our own journeys and we've all messed up and we've all you know tripped and fallen and gotten back up Sometimes we like to get 30. Yeah, sometimes we like to get 30.
But we've learned. And... And we've all messed up and we've all, you know, tripped and fallen and gotten back up. And sometimes we like to get 30. Yeah, sometimes we like to get 30. But we've learned and we still mess up. And I just want people to understand that this path, everybody needs help to do this the most efficient way we can. And so we just really want to share that and be able to give that to you at this group.
I also kind of want to piggyback off of the idea of normalizing it and just normalizing that like there's no linear trajectory to how this happens exactly exactly yeah kindergartner drew like squiggly lines everywhere right um so like whether that's you know whether you take like small tiny steps all the way or if you throw spaghetti at the wall which is pretty much what we did like we're like we'll try couples and and extra people and just maybe a club or you date and then i'll date and then we take turns it doesn't there's no agenda we have no agenda whatever you're bringing to the table is what you're bringing to the table and we just want to support people where they're at um so yeah just wanted to to normalize that that there's no one way of doing it well for us it's also really important as michelle was saying that we don't have an agenda about how anyone should do it or if they should do it we have plenty of people i've gotten referrals that people that have listened to you all that have no interest in opening up their marriages.
They said, we just want to talk to each other the way Mr. and Mrs. Jones talk to each other. Okay, great. No problem. And so we don't have any agenda about what you should be doing or at what speed. And it's also one of the things we try to be really careful with is to not use the words evolve or, um, or progress, right? Because I don't, there isn't, you're more evolved or less evolved. If you're swinger or polyamorous or you're, you're going slowly or, or quickly. No, it's not, it's not that way at all.
Um, let me say you were going to share the, the goal about some, about the like-minded piece, would you, do you want to go into that? Yeah, into that? Another goal we have is offering the community a place to connect with other like-minded people that enjoy the growth edge, as Catherine said before, of the lifestyle, to connect partners that are also on that path. We are creating connection around community.
We love the variety of subgroups, so like the kink and Bdsm or age related topics health and fitness or sex toys my personal favorite we are also creating a place to connect and build right so so that the people that like to get into the juicy dorky therapeutic coaching kinds of um topics that maybe that's how you find your play partner because you guys guys really love talking about Brene Brown, or you love talking about Esther Perel or something like that. And that might be what connects you.
Um, so I thought we'd tell you, I mean, there, there'll be a lot more details to come, but to give just a quick overview of what we plan to offer each month in this subgroup, if that would be cool. Yeah. Yeah, please. Okay. So in our expansive connection coaches corner, go there with me. It's a mouthful, you know, present a different, we want to present a different topic every month. So like monthly topics, we're going to rotate the leaders or the coaches, which is three of us.
We have a resource share around a particular topic and we'll have weekly discussion questions to get that chat going all three of us coaches comment on the chats to keep that going as well and then we're going to wrap up the topic with a live Q&A where we'll be there as well so to give people some access to us of course we won't be doing actual coaching or therapy through this group but sharing some of our favorite resources and facilitating discussion really and mostly trying to keep the discussion among the community members because we want them to we want to foster those connections but we'll be there to keep keep it keep pushing them toward that and again we'll we'll choose different topics each month some of them will be in line with the podcast that you all are releasing we also plan to go back and dig deeper on some of the other podcast um subjects that you all have already covered we'll be open to subject ideas from the community um we've even considered doing some um coaching if there are some couples that are willing to let us record them and do some coaching to benefit them and the community.
We're open to that. So we'll see where it grows, but we're really excited about the collaboration and so honored that you all asked us. Well, we're really excited about it too. And would it be fair to say that if I imagine that couples are going to come into that group or even individuals and they're going to really benefit from it and grow from it, but some of them may want an opportunity to maybe do something more with you. So will they have an opportunity to then maybe take it a further step and reach out to you all and meet with you individually in your regular practice? Oh, absolutely.
And also, I love the idea of this was such an exciting opportunity when you brought it up to me, because it gives me a chance to get these two amazing coaches that I've hired in front of your population. They're used to They know, they know a little bit about me, but this is an opportunity, as we said, where we really encourage people to find the coach that resonates most with them. This will give them a chance to have a flavor of all of us. And then absolutely we're open for it. And sometimes people come in literally once or twice. They just want to work on one specific thing.
And then sometimes people want to have have i have some clients that want to be on my calendar quarterly just for checkups just to talk about just it's kind of a preventative measure there are people that jump in and work with us really intensely for a while and then they feel pretty settled and we won't hear from them for a year and then they jump back in when they're in crisis or just hey we're having a little bump we very rarely i hate this word terminate clients i didn't do that terminate clients we don't do that well i did have to terminate tell yes because she i wanted to hire her so i get it i get hire her as a coach but you know we again we just really want people to reach out and use our resources in the way that feels good to them.
I want to share with you something that one of our new community members shared with us that I think encapsulates what we've been talking about. And he said, I was completely unprepared for how romantic your community is. It's a little shocking.
I don't know any other context i've come across where there are so many happily married people who cherish their spouses it's really a beautiful thing oh yeah i can say like i'm probably like the least experienced of the three of us in the lifestyle because we've only been doing this for for a couple of years and um that was the my very first thing that floored me was how much everyone in this community loved their spouses it was just like overwhelmingly beautiful yeah yeah and i don't want to leave the wrong message because they do they do share sexy pictures and tell sexy stories and there's a bdsm group and a sex toy group and a pervs group.
So it's not all about romance. But I think that undergirds everything, all of the different communities, all of the different subgroups.
And you have the same type of relationships that you're dealing with across the board and I'm just we're really excited to have you guys dedicate so much of your time to us we really appreciate especially we can tell the enthusiasm and the excitement and we're we're just as happy about it as you are well I think it's a natural fit because at the same time yeah we're we're happily married couples and we like to have sexy fun and have fun in general but but we also it it never ceases to amaze me like it's especially in the ladies group because that's where i spend most of my time hanging out is how willing these women are to be completely honest and vulnerable with each other um whether it's something really serious or something like we were talking about plucking chin hairs yesterday you know like that's not sexy but it's real like you know and and like health issues and you name it flipping their lids when something happens if they're if they're new but they know they can come and talk about it and they and they won't be judged and they'll just be unconditionally supported because we've all been there in some fashion yes absolutely and where else in our day-to-day lives do we have that place where we can plug in to such authenticity right it's just right it's and it's something that we're all i I mean, studies keep showing how even with all the ways we can connect with people, people are lonelier and lonelier.
That is not happening in this community. This is a place, and I think that that loneliness happens because yes, you're on a screen looking at somebody's Facebook, but you're not plugging into their authenticity and their genuineness and their struggles.
And you all have created a place that feels safe enough to do that which is so nourishing when people do plug into that community yeah and and now we're going to have you know a group where there can be like real structure put around these issues you know like right now we're just we are unconditionally supporting each other but now you're going to provide some framework around that and that's going to be so valuable so when they email you you can turn them around yeah and when they email you you can say we have a corner for this i just we can help you we're not qualified you'll have all these qualified people to help them with this problem.
Yeah. Well, I, Catherine and Cal and Michelle, the expansive connection coaches corner team. Just thank you again. The time that you spent preparing for this and spending time with us tonight. We, we, you know, we love collaborating with people who, whose hearts and passion, you know, are where yours are. And, and so aligns with, with what we really get out of this lifestyle, not as just individuals, but we are so fulfilled when other people are connecting with each other. And you guys are going to, you know, just bring, help us bring that to a new level. So we just really appreciate that.
Well, thank you again. It's, it's quite an honor to, to be part of it. And anytime that you guys ask me to collaborate on something, you know, I'm going to say yes. It's like all the apps will continue to be so fun, but knowing you guys, they will be. All right. Well, I guess we'll see you in your coaching corner. All right. Wonderful. Thanks so much. All right. All right. Bye.
Welcome back to snack shots we're gonna ask for some help over the next next couple of months yes if you listen to the prelude here at the beginning um you'll know that there's not a lot of sexy like super sexy interaction going on with us we're in kind of recovery and right yeah mode so you're not going to hear a lot of snap sexy snapshots from us for the next month or two so what we're going to ask you to do if you would please send us your snapshots that we can read to keep the audience entertained at least a little bit sexually. Well, keep us entertained too, babe. Exactly.
However, okay, I have one to read and you have one to read. Okay. At the outset, in the prelude of, like you said, of tonight, we talked about why we're doing this. We're talking about if we have an impact on somebody else, it's well worth it.
So the first snapshot that I'm going to read is more on the health side and then you're going to get going to read a sexy one okay okay is that because i'm hornier than you right now like your body's still in recovery mode no probably maybe okay snapshot number one just wanted to mr and mrs jones just wanted to start out by saying we are thinking of you both after mr. Jones revealed on the last podcast about your health diagnoses. We never have met, but of course, we feel like we know you. But more than that, we have always felt a strong affinity to you both, and we simply love you guys.
Anyway, this is the male half writing, and I wanted to say thank you. I had been putting off getting the blood work done for some time, a poor decision I know, but upon hearing you, Mr. Jones, I literally turned the car around, found the order sheet to get the blood work done, and got it drawn that afternoon. Thank you, as without you both, I would have continued to put it off. Now, I wish I could say that everything is fine, but unfortunately, my PSA is a bit elevated, and I am just waiting to see the doctor.
I do know I would not be human if I did not have concerns, but what I do know is that without you guys and your podcast, I would have never gotten this done, and my, messages like this kind of confirm, you know, the reason that we decided to share this and promote this has already impacted one person or one couple right and so um it's it's a very meaningful note and we appreciate um you sharing that with us and so i can't we're sending good thoughts and energy his way as he continues that process of of coming up with a firm diagnosis and a path forward. Right. So I'm going to be the nag.
And I'm going to say, guys, you know, if you're in your late 40s, 50, get that PSA checked on a regular basis. I know. So all my, well, out of all my bookkeeping clients, the vast majority of them are males, and I've already nagged all of them. So I think it's something that just needs to, we need to create awareness. Yep. How about something sexy? Okay, here we go. My snapshot starts out with, we had no idea what time people would go back to the playrooms, so we snuck back early and we were all alone for about 45 minutes. So clearly these people were at a club.
Yes, this is their first trip to a club. Oh, first trip. Yeah. Yes. We were tucked away in a lower bunk in the back of the room. The bunk had a curtain that we had about two-thirds of the way closed at first as we talked and calmed our nerves. I mean, can't everybody relate to this? Yeah. Next to us is what they call a frog chair. Okay, now I have new memories. Yes, we've seen one of those.
The first couple who came in went went straight for it and he immediately bent her over and began playing with her pussy and spanking her with each spanking she let out the sexiest little moan that was the moment we both relaxed and realized reality was going to be better than fantasy laying back and just kind of taking it all in is mind-boggling. Okay, they go on to say, as things continued to heat up in the room, my wife began begging for me to open the curtain and fuck her. Being exposed for others walking by and this couple having sex next to us to see was absolutely unbelievable.
Once they moved this was their first experience, and thankfully it was a good one. Well, right, and they were, I think they were very smart about it. They took it all in, and they watched it, and then they allowed themselves to react to it, and now they can kind of go home and figure out what they want to do next. Exactly. Yeah. So if you'd like us to read your snapshot, whether it's serious or funny or sexy, please send it to us this month and we'll try to get to it on our next podcast episode or two. Well, I have a third snapshot. You do? I do. You've been holding out on me.
And you have no idea what I'm going say that's true because my snapshot is when so mr jones's surgery last week was at 4 30 in the afternoon and i guess it's because of covid restrictions but the visiting hours were from only 9 30 a.m to 6 30 p.m And his surgery was going to be four hours. So his surgery was going to end after visiting hours. And I was blessed to have two girlfriends. One of them was the maid of honor at our wedding that you've been friends with since the third grade.
and then another one of our girlfriends that i've known forever they came up because mr jones's surgery was up near dc so it was about an hour from our house and um i ended up getting a hotel room because i didn't want to drive home and then drive back but i was going to be there up there by myself and i had two girlfriends that volunteered to come up with me but they couldn't come into the hospital because of covid so we hung out at I'll see you next time.
They're up there by myself, and I had two girlfriends that volunteered to come up with me, but they couldn't come into the hospital because of COVID, so we hung out at a Panera for like five hours waiting for your surgery. Which is a restaurant that serves sandwiches. You don't think people know what Panera is? Not in Great Britain and Canada and Australia. Oh, okay. Good point. Thank you.
so anyway it's just it's a simple little restaurant and um we truly hung out there for like four or five hours waiting for the doctor to call me and um it they were true true angels in my life at that point in time but anyway the doctor called me and he said you were fine and that um and that I had about a half an hour to get back and they were going to let me come into the recovery room to see you before they took you up to your room, but I wasn't allowed to go to your room with you. So I immediately raced back to the hospital and I got in to see you.
And because it was so late in the evening at that point, um, you were the only patient in recovery and there were like five nurses and you and me. And, um, you had already been kind of a rascal to a couple of them, I guess. I don't remember. No, you don't. And it It was so funny. And I truly forget what you said. It has something to do with the word ass. And whatever you said to the nurse, I was standing there, and whatever you said to the nurse, she looked at you a little perplexed, and she started laughing. And she said, ah, haven't heard that one before.
And I'm like, oh, my God, like you you actually stumped her because i'm sure these recovery room nurses have heard everything yeah i mean when you come out of anesthesia who knows what's going through your brain and what's just going to come out of your mouth but my snapshot is i got to be in there for about an hour because they let me stay there until your room was ready. And I don't remember any of this. Well, no, but I remember every second of it. Yeah.
And you were so, well, first of all, I walk in and I know this because I mean, I've seen you come out at anesthesia before for very minor things but um you know you're not quite yourself and and I was prepared for that and I I had to stand next to you because I I couldn't sit because you were you were very kind of restricted the way they had you all like strapped up and taped up and and this and that and you wanted to hold my hand and so I stood there and I held your hand and um at one point you were thirsty so I got you some water and I was and after I got you some water, the nurse came and checked on you and you were fine.
And, and they said, you know, we're still working on getting your room. So, and they told me, you know, you can stay until they, they come and get them to take up to your room. And I was hoping that was going to take forever cause I didn't want to leave you. Um, so finally I got tired and, um, there was kind of a break in the action cause she came and checked on you and I went to sit down and I went to like disengage my fingers with you because from the minute I walked in the room, I had grabbed your hand and I was holding your hands and our fingers were entwined.
You don't remember any of this, do you? No. So at one point I was kind of tired and there was a chair for me and I was going to sit down in the chair and I started disentangling my fingers from yours. And you said, don't let go of me. I love you. I don't want to let go of you. And I think that is the sweetest thing you've ever said to me in your life. I just wish I remembered it. You don't need to remember it because there was no logic, there was no filters, there was no nothing. That was just your raw brain completely disconnected from reality, society, whatever.
you said i i don't want to let go of you i love you that's that's probably the best five seconds of my life that's quite a snapshot i know i'm crying like an idiot now that's the best five seconds of my life. So I scored some points in recovery. Because you're normally this rascally asshole. And you pride yourself on that. You didn't have the opportunity to put that little hat on. That was you. Now I know you love me. It took 37 years for me to figure that out. You really love me. Yeah. Well, I'm not quite sure what the problem was with you not knowing that before.
And I could probably get that nurse to witness it because you probably don't believe me, but I'm sure there was a witness. So I wouldn't let you sit down? No. You wouldn't let go of my hand. It wasn't that you wouldn't let me sit down. You wouldn't let go of my hand. You said, don't let go of me. I love you. I'm a sweet guy. Yeah, for five seconds out of 37 years. Well, you said it was very important to you. Best five seconds of my life.
Well, that's a surprise thank you for sharing yeah because i don't remember no you don't any of that i just remember being in my room by myself every time i want to bash you over the head with a frying pan now i'm gonna think of that i'm gonna be like oh shit he really does love me and then i remember ordering my food the next morning and they they said, Mr. Jones, you have no restrictions. And I said, I want an omelet. I want bacon. I want French toast. I want orange juice. I want strawberry. I was ordering everything.
This poor guy was hungry because his surgery wasn't until 4.30 in the afternoon. I had to go like 48 hours almost without food. And they treated him like his surgery would have been at 9 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. So you were hungry. Anyway, let's wrap this up. Thank you, Catherine and Miche and Kel. We are so looking forward to collaborating with you. This is really exciting. Don't forget, through the end of the month of May, we have a 30-day free trial membership. Go to our website, wegotathing.com, W-E-G-O-T-T-A-T-H-I-N-G.com.
We're so excited for you to come in and test the waters and see the amazing community. And this community has really not a lot to do with you and I. No. It has to do with the people people yes you can email me at mrjones at wegotathing.com and me at mrsjones at wegotathing.com you can follow us on twitter at wegotathing and we also have a presence on pinterest and double date nation and stc and cassidy yes where you can get free trials right so we are mr and mrs jones and we got a thing what's your thing We'll see you next time.
