Episode 86: Being Bi-Something in the Lifestyle

Transcript

This podcast contains explicit language and content and is for mature audiences only. Hey you teenagers out there, if you're under 18, this show is more for your parents. So now that you have that mental picture stuck in your head, put some music on and get back to doing your homework. We are a long-time married couple who's decided to chronicle our personal adventures and share our sex-pos positive discussions as we navigate our way through the swinging lifestyle. Care to join us?

hello everyone i'm mr jones and i'm mrs jones and we want to welcome you to episode 86 of the we got a thing podcast being by something in the lifestyle yes there's someone for everyone and some of us are by and some of us are not and some of us are not. And some of us feel like we have to be. There. Like shortest episode ever. There's a little bit more to it than that. But yes, that's a good setup. We'll talk more about that in a minute. In the meantime, you made me start packing today. I know. And we actually started ordering theme night outfits last week. I know. PCAP became a reality.

All of a sudden we realized it's coming up and we hadn't gotten our outfits, our costumes yet. I was just waiting for Kate to send out the message. You know, theme nights are just too stressful for everybody. Let's just cancel them and dress sexy every night and whatever you want to dress sexy in. Yeah.

But sent the email or maybe i just didn't get it no my fantasy she was going to say we've changed it to red night white night and blue night yes yeah i agree no black night i like black yeah yeah little black dress so yeah that's coming up actually this week we're so excited about that It's becoming a reality after so many delays because of COVID and everything else. And now it seems like the mandates are being lifted. I know the timing is actually perfect. Yeah, we've got our second vaccine. So we'll be all set to go. And we're getting excited about it. Yep.

We are also still planning our We Got a Thing event meet and greet weekend in Denver, Colorado in late September. We are on the cusp of signing a contract. Well, I think the hotel, we just need to like sign now. Yeah. So now we just have to get a couple other entertainment pieces of the puzzle put together. Right. We definitely have Scarlet Ranch nailed down. Yep.

We will have the hotel nailed down before we go to pcap is my goal yeah and then we'll just have to get a restaurant and we'll be able to announce that and then the trip that we're making to las vegas at the end of june and the playhouse lv takeover we are doing on june 25th is sold out yes 80 couples people are desperate to get out and about i know i was surprised at how quickly they went so i'm looking forward to meeting a lot of you next month yes after pcap and thanks to the people that are putting it together you and i aren't doing squat well you you did i mean you got playhouse lvl organized and Yeah.

But there's a team of people like really doing some nice behind the scenes work to make this weekend incredible. We just get to go out and kind of go with the flow. Yeah. And have fun. Yeah. I think they thought that maybe like, what, a dozen, maybe 20 couples would come with them. They had no idea it was going to explode into this. And we've been back out. We just got back from South Florida, even though we're going right back again. I know. Oh, it was so much fun. We just did a little getaway. It was kind of a little bit of everything. It was very swirly. It was.

Yeah, we started off staying in beach yeah near fort lauderdale for a couple of days and it was just the two of us and we got to unplug from family and business stuff and just relax for a couple of days oh my god i got a sunburn yeah it was ridiculous you did like i had spf 50 on and i was reapplying it i was actually being good because i know i'm like lily white you're peeling now i know i'm nasty i look like a snake a sexy snake i'll be done I'll see lily white. You're peeling now. I know. I'm nasty. I look like a snake. A sexy snake. I'll be done peeling before PCAP, I promise.

Then we rented a car and drove from South Florida to Key West. But on the way down to Key West, between Fort Lauderdale and Key West, we have friends. That have a home. That have a home. And so we, uh, spent the evening with them, afternoon and evening with them. Oh my gosh. They got the good life, don't they? Yeah. It's beautiful down there. Gracious hosts, sexy hosts. Well, and they're friends that I thought I don't, we had seen them about a year ago. Yeah. And we've known them forever. Yeah.

So when you, when you see friends like that, uh, even though it's been a year, we get together and pick right up where we left off yeah and you were so bad she we got there on like what was it like a tuesday so the wife was working and her office horrible like it was just downstairs they have like a covered porch that leads out to like the open water. And anyway, they have a beautiful yard right near the water. And anyway, she had a table set up and she was on a Zoom call. And you were like climbing under the table, messing with her. I was. You were a bad boy. I waited until she was talking.

And I knew the camera was on her. and I crawled under the table and put my hand up between her legs. Oh, such a good friend. Yeah, it was good to see them, and it also gave us a chance to have some sexy fun with others before we went down and finished the four days at Key West with our long-time non-lifestyle friends. Yes. And it was so much fun. It was the first time we had vacationed with one of the couples before. But it was the first time we vacationed with the other couple. Yeah. And it was really fun.

Well, that's the first time we vacationed together with them as adults with no kids around. Oh, true. Yeah. So needless to say, we bar hopped and we spent a lot of money on booze and food. Oh my gosh, we did. Yeah. It was expensive. And we have a couple of interesting stories. You know, Key West is just one of those cities kind of like New Orleans. Yeah. You just never know what you're going to run into. Never I know what you're going to run into, and so where do we start? So we, we'll talk about the hotel first. Yeah. It was like a bed and breakfast. Yeah.

And there were seven rooms, seven or eight rooms. Yeah. And a little pool in the back. Right. So you got to know everybody at the hotel. Right.

And we were there, we were sitting around the pool one night and there there's a there's two or three rooms that open up right onto the pool area so this door opens up and this man and this woman adult man and woman walk out of the room and they left the door open and i thought maybe he's going to go back in and get something and then another lady walked out of the of the room and i i know these rooms are small and she was not a child no so the first thing that went through my mind is oh they're a triad yeah i think there was only one room with two beds and and i know that room was like on the top floor yeah because we had looked at all the rooms yeah.

Yeah. And so I had to, later that evening, I had to go introduce myself and talk to them so I could figure out what was going on. And I'm pretty sure that that's what the situation was. Yeah. Yeah. I think everybody thought that. It was pretty obvious. Yeah. Yeah. What did the lady, what did the, there was a, the couple, how old was the couple? Were they our age maybe? And then the other lady was a little bit younger. She was younger, yeah. And she said she was a nanny, right? Yeah, a nanny. She didn't say she was their nanny. Yeah. She said she was a nanny.

And there was definitely no you had an interesting story oh my gosh so i think you owe somebody an apology i do this was like one of the most awkward moments of my life so we had gone to mallory square for the sunset which you have to do when you're in kiwa so we were there hanging out i think the sunset around eight o'clock that night so then we were walking back up Duval Street to go to a restaurant that we had chosen for dinner. And it was crowded because everybody was leaving Mallory Square at the same time. So we were kind of walking in pairs.

There were six of us and we were walking in pairs. And I was in the back walking with my girlfriend.

And we were, you know, it was really loud because there's music and this and that and this lady comes up behind me my friend was on my left and this lady comes up behind me on my right and she puts her hand on my right shoulder and and i out of my peripheral vision i could see she was holding a glass in one hand and then she had her other hand on my shoulder and I thought she was just drunk and trying to push by me and maybe kind of needed me for balance which wouldn't she wouldn't be the only one in Key West that had that problem right right so anyway I kind of like tried to scooch out of her way a little bit and she put her hand back on my shoulder and by this time I was kind of annoyed so I turned around to give her the stink eye and she said I think we know each other and I looked at her and I really truly didn't recognize her and I said no I think you're mistaken and she said no we've met before and I said no I don't think we have and she was insistent she went on again and about the third time she said it all these like alarms start going off in my head and I was like oh no I don't know.

I don't think we have. And she was insistent. She went on again. And about the third time she said it, all these like alarms start going off in my head. And I was like, oh no. So I was insistent that we had never met before. And I literally turned around and tried to like blow her off and pick up my pace a little bit. And she came up to me again and she said, I think you have a podcast. and I'm with my friend. And I turned around and I looked at the lady right in the eye and I said, no, I don't. You are mistaken. I didn't realize how good of a liar I could be in a crunch. Yeah.

So anyway, after I said that to her, and I gave her a pretty dirty look too because I just wanted her to stop. We just walked away. And my girlfriend said, what was that about? And I'm like, ah, I'll tell you later. So anyway, you were like the first pair of people in our group. I was ahead of you, yeah.

So you were like at least 10 feet ahead of me you had no idea what was going on right um and then we got to the restaurant and we all ate dinner and finally we were walking back to the hotel it was probably like midnight and i managed to like lag behind a little bit and you kind of lagged behind with me. And I'm like, you are not going to believe what happened a couple hours ago. So whoever, the very pretty lady that approached me in Key West, if you're listening, I'm sorry I lied to you. But my friends did not know that we had a podcast.

And I really didn't feel like that was the right time for me to tell them. So I just flat out lied to you. I'm sorry. But you caught me very off guard. Yeah. And I went into defense mode. Yeah. Well, you did the right thing. Yeah. I think. Yeah. One of those awkward moments of life. And the last little interesting thing that happened was the last night we were there, we walked down the street to a restaurant. It wasn't very crowded. It had a really cute waitress. Thanks for listening.

little uh interesting thing that happened was the last night we were there we walked down the street to a restaurant wasn't very crowded um had a really cute waitress full of personality um talked to her for a long time you know found out where she was from and where she had worked in the past and why she was in key west she had a really interesting story she she was from eastern europe and just had a really cool story yeah and every time she would come back to the table she would stay a little bit longer she wanted to socialize with us and um you know i felt like i should have asked her to sit down she wasn't working she could have sat down and we were joking with her and and she could tell we were really having a good time and i started to wonder you know about her level of interest and then and i was i was feeling the same thing yeah and then i was trying to kind of make eye contact with you like what's going on here yeah and then we were getting we asked for the check and she said oh no you guys aren't leaving can't you can't you stay a little bit longer and we ah, this is our last night.

You know, we've got some things that we've got to cross off our list still. And she said, well, I'd really like to be going home with you. And it's a good thing I didn't have a mouthful of drink at that point in time. Because if it was just the two of us. I didn't know what you were going to say at that point. Like, I was just really holding my breath. Yeah. I mean, if it would have been just the two of us, I would have been kicking you like, honey, come on, like, seal the deal. Because she was cute.

But it reminds me of a while back when we talked about how much we enjoy going on regular non-lifestyle cruises. Because we're much more comfortable socializing with people now yeah and we meet so many people and so many friends and hear so many stories and um you know even though nothing happened or we wouldn't probably try to make something happen it you don't think we would have well if it was just the two of us we probably would have have that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I think we probably would have. But there are six of us. No, no, there was no way we could do it.

But I think if there were two of us, I think that would have been like a first for us. It would have been, yeah. But I think my point is that it's the same kind of sexy fun. Yeah, that's true. It's the same kind of sexy fun without the sex.

But, I mean i got to have sex which was fun yes it was so anyway key west is that's the first time that it's not the first time we've been to key west but it's the first time that we've stayed there for a period of time and kind of got to relax and get into the vibe down there we really had a good time highly recommend oh and the weather was perfect yeah it was like 84 every single day yeah i think it sprinkled one day for like 10 minutes the ground hardly even got wet and we did a sunset cruise and we got to see the green flash when the sun went behind the water that night you claim you saw it i you didn't see it i was taking pictures i took a video and i went back and looked at the video and didn't didn't see it oh you i saw it okay it was amazing you had been drinking well so had you yeah and then you know lastly we we've had probably we've had several couples and a single guy actually come through town over the past weeks that few weeks that we've been able to go out and have dinner and drinks with i know it's been so much fun yeah and it's because people are getting back out and people are starting to travel and so we we really appreciate it when people come through town or come to the dc area and have the ability to to get down to our area and so we were able to go out with um three different times to i know meet new friends it was awesome a lot of fun well at least this month we had something to talk about I know and next month we will be too because we're going back to podcastapalooza and we've got things lined up in June July August September October so I think we got something on the books every month for the rest of the year, except December.

So I think we can officially declare that the lifestyle world is open back up again, at least in the States. Vaccinated, mandates are lifted, everybody's kind of reverting back to normal. PCAP is going to be like the launching pad for us for the rest of 2021. Yes, the grand opening. Right. All right, when we come back, we're going to talk about being by something in the lifestyle. See you soon. Welcome back to segment two, being by something in the lifestyle.

And this is one of those it's not fair topics yeah it's not fair like there's such a disparity between um what people think about bisexual women and bisexual men yes there is definitely a double, and there's definitely a stigma attached to being by something male in the lifestyle. And I think what we've observed, I'll say I've observed, is that people have pointed this out, and people complain about it, and people tweet about it, and people say how wrong it is, and some people get angry about it, and some people call people out on it.

And there's a lot of that going on, but there's really not a lot of people talking about what it really means, what it really is, and what it means to them. And if we are going to affect some sort of a change, how that probably has to come from within ourselves and from within the lifestyle. Totally. um it uh it's funny because like there's almost this perception that women have to be by something to be a swinger and, um, that's really not true. Well, let's talk about women first before we talk about men then. Okay. So that's a good point. Yeah.

Um, we've recently talked to a lot of, I mean, in our community, there's been conversations in women's groups and even in the larger group that some some men will say my wife feels like she has to be bi in order to attend this event or she has to be bi something to date other couples or you know the other couple's not going to be interested in us if i'm if i'm straight and i don't want to be with other women right and you know i think um i think i probably felt that way first and well i was so naive when we got in the lifestyle like you know my whole objective when we went to desire that first time was just to find a girl on the on dance floor and kiss her.

And I thought that was going to be like... To shut me up. Yeah, I thought that was going to be like fulfilling your fantasy. And that was going to be the end of it. Check that box. Best wife ever. But as I think back on that, I didn't imagine... You and I had never talked about your sexuality. Well, we'd never had a reason to, I never, um, it never occurred to me. Like I never had that deep down fantasy about, Oh, I wonder what'd be like to like kiss another woman or feel another woman.

Or always admired other women like i always um found other women beautiful and attractive and and i would really admire that but i never thought about being sexual with another woman i know and i knew that you weren't that way that's why when i was suggesting you do that that was like a a selfish dumb guy I just wanted to see you kiss another woman i didn't want to see you become by something that wasn't the goal right and you know another thing because like i think we've mentioned this before i'm sure um like your fantasy during our whole marriage that you would bring up and you know we would tee hee hee about was that you wanted to have you know someday when we have a threesome and when you said that it was always implied that it was another woman right and me being so naive i just assumed that if we brought another woman into our bed it would just be another woman playing with you right right i never thought about me playing with her right i'm just like well double the pleasure double the fun for mr jones i mean right Thank you.

I never thought about me playing with her. I'm just like, well, double the pleasure, double the fun for Mr. Jones. I mean, it never, I don't know. So at first I thought, well, certainly I'm not bisexual because that's not something I ever thought I wanted.

But then, you know, when you get to a place like Desire or any other event where you're there for a while and you kind of get out of reality and just into fantasy mode you know you start i guess thinking more of what if and and also you start seeing other women like interacting with each other whether they're kissing or feeling each other in the pool or right sex on a jacuzzi bed. Like, I had never seen that before. I guess we had watched porn, but porn was so not relatable to me. And it was not something I would ever put myself, I'd never insert myself into those situations.

And obviously, I used to be a real prude. I'm sorry.

But when we went to desire and i saw women having sex with each other it didn't seem weird and then when we found our friends who were like really laid back and you know not pushy and and this and that and and i became closer to the lady and then i finally did kiss her and then she and i ended up playing together it it it wasn't like oh my gosh i've been waiting for this all my life it was like wow this is fun you know and i i just kind of took it as okay that was a great experience you know one of these escape from reality just you know do crazy shit and then you come home and become a normal person again but you know that feeling didn't go away you know then you're you know you're kind of curious well gosh i wonder what else we could have tried or i wonder what else we could have done right and that puts me probably somewhere in the ballpark of you bi-comfortable than bisexual.

Because at the end of the day, when we're choosing a couple to play with, more than likely, I'm looking at, you know, the man, his personality, his physique, his, you know, the, the chemistry between he and I, if you're attracted to the woman more than likely, I'm going to be attracted to the woman as well. Um, there are more, there are women I'm more interested in than others. Um, and that's just the way the world works, but, but that isn't my first inclination.

And so while you're talking about this then, also, and this is just an observation, the fact that you were so easily able to think, hmm, that was kind of fun, wonder what else we could do, that there seemed to be that lack of a stigma of this is wrong like there is on the guy side. Like you didn't have to get beyond a lot of garbage to get to the point where you wanted to do something else. You were just curious. She was interested and so you did it. There wasn't anything, any stigma in the way.

There wasn't any history in your life about women being together that would prevent you from thinking about it to begin with. Right, right. And, you know, that's the way of the world right now, unfortunately. Society weirdly gives us permission to do that much more than it gives men permission to do that. Yeah. And I want to talk more about that when we get to the men too. Another question I have for you then is, so when you have played with other women?

Because you categorize yourself as bi-curious, but you're straight, and the man is mainly your focus, but you're also interested in women if they're interested. I'd say I was bi-comfortable. Okay. I'm not bi-curious because I've already explored that curiosity many times. Bi-comfortable. And I know I like it. So my question is, if another woman that we're with in the other couple is straight, do you feel like you're missing out on something? Or would you ever try to do something with her?

I guess what I'm saying is, are you attracted to other women when you're bi-comfortable when they express an interest in you and you both know you have that mutual attraction right or that you have that mutual interest yeah and if a woman is straight and she doesn't want to play with me that does not offend me right right um i i'm always curious to find out why she's straight you know is it because she hasn't tried it and she's afraid to because of you know some value system in her mind that she thinks she can't cross over right um or is it that she's just flat out not interested right maybe it doesn't appeal to her right right um you know and some women are willing to do something like some women won't go down on another woman you know they'll let some they'll let a woman go down on them but they won't go down on another woman yeah and i've heard you and that's okay too i mean i've heard you tell other women who were who were not interested or i shouldn't say weren't interested but who had never done anything with a woman before.

You've said, hey, I just want to let you know if you're, if you've ever thought about it or you're curious, you know, let me know. I'm happy to, but otherwise you wouldn't push the issue. No. So it's an invitation. I'm not going to make somebody feel uncomfortable and, you know, try to talk them into something. That's not fair. And that's really disrespectful. And that's exactly the opposite of what the lifestyle is supposed to be about. And there have been times when we've been with couples, mostly friends that we've been with before, and you've played with the women before.

Or you didn't get to play with the woman, but you two say, hey, next time we're going to make sure we spend some time together. Right. And what has happened in the past is that... What happens next time is that the greedy husbands somehow keep that from happening again. Not that you're keeping it from happening. Right. My point is that sometimes, even though there's an intention of the two women playing together, I'll start flirting with the other woman and she'll start kissing me.

And then before we know it, all the plans went out the window and you ladies don't get to spend any time together. Okay, so I remember one time when that was my fault. We were actually at Desire with good friends of ours. And, um, I think the time we played with this couple before the time I'm talking about, she and I missed an opportunity to play together. So this, it was the exact same thing you're talking about now. So we made a pact next time we're going to have some us time. And she and I were like, yeah, yeah, that's going to happen.

So then we get together with them and we start to play and she i think she and i were like kissing and stuff and we were things were starting to get hot and heavy and we were supposed to play first and then you guys were gonna be able to join in the fun yeah well her husband was behind me and he was kind of spooning behind me and she and i were in the middle and you were kind of spooning behind me, and she and I were in the middle, and you were kind of spooning behind her, and I made the mistake of rolling over.

I kind of leaned over so I could kiss him, just to let him know that I was acknowledging his presence. Well, he's a really good kisser, and I got distracted. Yeah. So, I ruined that time. I think, I know. And yeah, so it's not always my fault. Sometimes it is. No, that one was totally my fault. I think the point that I wanted to draw out here is that it's very fluid. It's a very fluid sexual situation. And just because you are by whatever doesn't mean you have to. It doesn't mean that you're necessarily going to want to. Or sometimes it means you're not even going to get the opportunity to.

Right. But if it happens, it happens. So anyway, that's your history and that's our story. So I want to go back and talk about where this perception comes from, this perception that you have to be bi if you're a woman in order to be in the lifestyle well i can tell you where i first saw it um was reading profiles on dating websites right you know because well they have all the little things that you click yeah and the vast majority of women express some sort of interest in other women and And there's so many names, like I hate to use the names, by curious, by comfortable, by whatever.

You know, it's all, you can't put that in a box. I know, but let's put this into perspective. You're right.

You do see that on profiles profiles a lot but you know what you also see on profiles um i like taking videos i like taking pictures i like three ways i like blowjobs i like there's all these things that people like and don't like yeah and if you if you're with a couple and they've checked the box that they like taking videos that doesn't mean you're going to take videos that night right and if you don't it's no big deal right but for some reason this thing about bisexuality by curiosity or being bi comfortable we assume that when we see that on the profile that it's a requirement that i have to be like them to be with that couple yeah i think i think you're right um it it shouldn't be taken as a deal breaker game changer or whatever word you want to use right right um it's just like anything else it's something that you're open to right um now i do have to say i think some women are very um interested in playing with other women and that could be a deal breaker for some women.

Right. But just like anything else in the lifestyle, there's someone for everyone. And you talk about that up front and if, and if there's not a four way connection and then that would obviously mean that you're not compatible. Exactly. Just like if they're smokers or whatever it is that might be on your list. Right. And I have to admit, another perception of this comes from listening to lifestyle podcasts. Yeah. Because as I'm mentally ticking down the podcast that I listen to, I would say almost all of the women in these podcasts have had experiences with other women.

Yeah, I think you're right. And I can't remember hearing a podcast where the woman has said, I am straight. So there doesn't seem to be that voice out there representing the ladies who are straight and who aren't interested in being with other women. That's a really good point.

So I think sometimes lifestyle podcasts, people get the idea, well, if're going to be in this this is you have to be like us which is not true yeah but i mean i just want to go back to to what we were talking about earlier like there's been several times where i don't play with the other woman i know and it's fine right um it's all about communication right and you know you're not gonna hurt my feelings it's okay you think my husband's sexy i think your husband's sexy i think we're gonna have fun it just means more for me more time for me brother i don't have to share her with you i have no problem with that well you know what i want to i'm glad you brought that up because I too, especially when we first got into the lifestyle and you were becoming bi-comfortable, I didn't know as a guy, when we were with another couple that were interested in us, I didn't know how much of her interest was because of me or because of you.

Oh, I remember talking about this a lot at first. Yeah. So the first time, the first couple of times we were with one in particularly, one in particular, I remember this woman saying she was straight. And I felt so good after that evening because I'm like, she wanted me.

She wanted a hundred percent yeah and it gave me a lot of confidence that okay she wasn't there for yes my wife is beautiful and i understand why you would want that but she didn't she wasn't interested in that and that was like the first time i realized wow you know that was all me yeah and so i got a lot more confident at that point in time and now you you have a t-shirt that says, Mr. Jones knows how to fuck. Or no, what does it say? Mr. Jones knows how to fuck. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you, Kay. Kay from that couple next door. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a treasure that I will always keep pressed and hung in my closet and framed. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that's a treasure that I will always keep pressed and hung in my closet and framed. Yes.

So another reason that there's this perception is that we hear stories about events, a hotel takeover, whether it's a group sex event, and we hear other ladies talking about being with other ladies and we make the assumption that you have to be that way to be a part of that group right yeah and well and you're so ridiculous like every time we go to desire and i do like the the ladies mimosa cocktail hour oh yeah you know you're like well, don't forget the honey and the pillow, you know, the feathers for the pillow fights and this and that. Like, you guys are so silly. Yeah.

You can't imagine us up there actually, like, having, like, really deep, meaningful conversation with no sex. No, absolutely not. Watching porn is another reason that this perception exists if you look for oh that's true girl and girl porn and there's a lot of it yeah and then you see that much of it then you that's going to lead you to believe that that's part of what you have to do yeah and lastly i think is what you blamed me for and i take the blame for it it was my fantasy i mean i mean, I wanted to see you with another woman.

And so I think because I have that fantasy and a lot of men have that fantasy, I think a lot of ladies feel like that's something that they have to do or maybe that they want to do for their husband, but they don't really want to do it for themselves like you were saying. Right.

And, and I, and I'm not saying try it, you'll like it, but I guess I i am saying try it like it because i didn't realize that i would enjoy it until i tried it right and then all of a sudden it just kind of opened my eyes to new ways of experiencing pleasure right and just having fun like playing with a girl is so fun it's like a really low pressure situation for me i don't know and like girls like girls are so soft. Like they smell really good. And we're so soft. And we've got hair all over the place. Like I've never kissed a girl that's not a good kisser.

I mean, most guys I've kissed are good kissers too. But like I just, I love kissing girls. Like, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, that's, again, that's my deal. And that's all you and i can talk about we can talk about our own situation but but i think our goal here is just to make people aware that maybe the stereotypes that they have set in their minds are not as rigid as they think they are right and so what these perceptions or stereotypes can lead to is this idea, this feeling pressure that I have to be by something. Right.

And then when you feel that pressure, or you put that pressure on yourself, it's possible that you would just say, look, I'm not even going to get into the lifestyle. I'm not even going to try because I don't want to be by. Right. So you think, you that you have to do and therefore you make a choice not to even try it because of this perception. There's lots of fun fantasies to fulfill that don't necessarily have to involve two women together. Right. So we've talked about the perception and what that leads to. So what about the reality of bi something women in the lifestyle?

Well, I think the reality, like if I had to give like statistics off the top of my head, and this is so unscientific, it's ridiculous. I would say what 75% of women that I've encountered in the lifestyle are open to some sort of interaction with other women. Right. And then 25% of women have not been.

So if you're not into other women, you're not alone, and you're probably not in as much of a minority as you think, some women could be bisexual reluctantly because they think that it's expected of them as you were just saying so you know i think maybe the the lesson to be learned here is that we just have to be honest with ourselves and with the people we're getting ready to play with like if you're just not feeling it don't fake it with another woman you know don't don't just don't play with her just because you feel like you have to it's okay and and let's let's go back to those numbers for a minute because i i would agree with you let's just assume 75 does that feel right yeah yeah 75 numbers before this 75 of the ladies in the lifestyle are by something so that leaves 25 percent who are straight.

But also remember within that 75% you have those who are bi-curious, bi-comfortable, bisexual. I would say the ones that are purely bisexual will maybe be a third of that 75%.

yeah so maybe 25 percent of the women who are bisexual or or by something are bisexual and those are the those are the women that are probably going to want to be involved with another woman yeah the other 50 percent the ones that are by curious orcomfortable like you you can take it or leave it I mean you want it but if it's not on the table that's okay yeah so even with it lopsided 75 to 25 you're still there's still a very small smaller percentage of women who are bisexual who are probably gonna want to be with a woman no matter what yeah so if you look at it that way there are many many more people out there that you are compatible with if you're straight yeah Thank you.

going to want to be with a woman no matter what yeah so if you look at it that way there are many many more people out there that you are compatible with if you're straight yeah good way to put it yeah well in my line of work it's called torturing the data until it gives you what you want um and we know for certain it's not a requirement to be buy something in the lifestyle. You know, we just talked about that. We've proven that over and over again. Yeah. We've been with a lot of women who are, are straight. Right.

And I guess the other thing I want to say, and this kind of goes back to my story is, you know, never say never about anything in life, but you know, maybe you think you're straight now and maybe you just haven't run into the right woman that kind of um piques your curiosity or puts you in this place where you feel really comfortable in it and it kind of feels natural you know if it feels forced yeah then don't do it right like you shouldn't do something right if it doesn't feel like it's something that you want to do so i think what what you're saying is there are many, many women who are now bi-curious or bi-comfortable or bisexual that were not when they started.

Yeah, I would say so. Right. So know that your pathway is undefined and can be defined by you. Yeah. And one day you might find yourself in a situation and you might try it yeah yeah exactly um and i would also say if you get yourself in a situation and you don't feel comfortable and you're feeling pressure either from anybody in the party um i would think that your partner's not going to pressure you but you know a lot of times guys, and you're good at reading the room before you start teasing and, you know, like air quote pressuring people. You know, you encourage, not pressure.

I think that's a better word. You know, if people are pressuring you to do something, then that's not the right couple for you to be playing with. And this is also a time when we need a message to the husbands out there or the male partners out here. If it's not about bisexuality, if you're with another couple and let's just say it's anal sex, or no. Let's just say that they want to play without a condom.

both you and your husband have already agreed that's a no yeah and so you're the male partner your husband's going to be right there with you and say no we don't do that however if the husband does want to see his wife with another woman it could quickly become three on one it could become that the other couple want you as the woman to play with the other woman yeah and then me then me as your husband could say, oh, yeah, I'd really like to see that. Then you're getting pressure from not only the other couple, but you feel like you've been abandoned by your partner. Right.

And if the partner is encouraging you, then the other couple might not understand. Correct. That all these bells and whistles are going off in your head. They're reading the room. Right. And seeing, well, you know, it must be okay because he's encouraging her too. And like we said, we've talked about this before, but if anybody's pressuring you to do anything, not just about being bi-curious or bisexual, then they're probably not the right couple for you. Yeah.

If they can't say, wow, okay, well, we get it and let's not do that or no problem we're not going to do that or hey you know that's off the table it's off the table and if you change your mind let us know and it's not an issue yeah if they respond in any way other than that then they're probably not the couple that you want to be playing with anyway yeah yeah and that's okay Right.

It's it's never too late to throw the flag and excuse yourself right um and sometimes like what it comes down to with us is being fluid and we touched on this before but it just because you are bi-comfortable and the other woman is bi-comfortable that doesn't necessarily mean that's going to happen it might happen and it it might not. So still each play experience can be its own. It can be very fluid and it can take on a life of its own and go the direction that it needs to go because somebody has a desire, somebody has a want.

And so it's not even, I just want to dispel the myth if it's out that if you are by something, that that is going to happen when you play. Yeah, it doesn't have to. So I think we've poked enough holes in the theory that you have to be bi as a woman to be able to enjoy the lifestyle. At least I hope. That was our goal. Yeah. We'll see how it goes okay can we switch gears yeah let's switch gears this is going to be a little trickier yeah bisexual men in the lifestyle should be should be as openly accepted as bisexual women but it is such a double standard. And there's a stigma around that. Yeah.

Yes. And there's a perception that this probably will never change, and that maybe men will never get an opportunity to explore this. And where I kind of want to chime in from my personal view on this is that, back to what I said at the beginning, if this is going to change, if this stigma is going to go away, it's not going to be because somebody makes a declaration that it's gone. it's going to have to happen through each individual man and each individual couple exploring it and being vulnerable enough to try it or to talk to others about it.

And if we never get to that point as men, then it's silly for us as a group to have an expectation. And it's silly to get angry at people. And it's silly to stand up and beat your chest and be holier than thou and self-righteous about it. Because it's going to come down to us as men and us as a couple talking about that for it to change.

so what we would encourage people to do we say communication is a part of the lifestyle from the very get-go right so if you if if you you have to have enough courage to at least talk to your wife or talk to your partner about an interest there first um so that you know that's where it would need to. And remember when we were talking with Tony, our single guy, and he was telling us that he's with a lot of couples and all of a sudden he realizes the man is interested in him. And, but he also notices that the woman's not watching or that the man's trying to do this without his wife seeing. Yeah.

And he said, that is not okay. Well, right.

But his observation kind of underscores that mindset that there are guys out there that won't even talk to their wives about it but they're clearly interested in it right and that's the part i'm saying it's not okay to like spring something on your wife in the middle of play right um that's you know that's a um something that would just blow my mind yeah not that you would want to right play with another guy well it's that you haven't expressed that fantasy to me yeah so i want to talk about me personally and my experience in this because that's that's happened a couple of times to us in the lifestyle there's been there's been times when men have made an advance towards me, and we haven't talked about it before.

Yeah, we talked about it once. Look, we talked about it the first time it happened. We talked about it on the podcast. Yeah, but I'm just saying in general that because I've had this experience as a guy, I've had this experience when we've been with a couple, never talked about any by play between the men. Right. The other man never expressed an interest, never talked to us about it. We get in the middle of play and all of a sudden there's something that occurs where it's clear to me that he's interested in interacting with me. But at that point in time, you fall back to the regular rules.

Look, we didn't talk about this. So I'm not judging you for wanting to do what you want to do. But there's no consent. We never talked about it. And I know that some guys are just afraid to talk about it. And I think they get into the heat of the moment. And it feels like something they want to do. And so they just do it without the, without the conversation and without consent. Right. But let's take these two experiences and differentiate them because the first time it happened, which is the experience we talked about on our podcast forever ago.

Um, the guy's profile did say that he was by curious his profile did say that but we never talked but we didn't talk about it because your profile said that you were straight right and um and we were new and that was a faux pas on our part because i think it was our responsibility to bring it up no you don't think so no no if i'm if i'm by something and i'm the guy it's my responsibility to bring it up especially if i have an idea that i want to do it Thank you. You don't think so? No, no. If I'm by something and I'm the guy, it's my responsibility to bring it up.

Especially if I have an idea that I want to do it. Okay, yeah. My responsibility as the guy who's reading it is, I meant to ask about it and I forgot, but at the end of the day, I'm like, well, I'm not interested, so what do I have to worry about? Yeah. That's true. Anyway, go ahead. But, okay. So there was that one. Right. The second time it happened, it was a completely different situation. There was no, nowhere on the profile was any kind of bi curiosity or bisexuality listed. Right.

And we are very sure, as sure as we can be without being in the marriage, you know, one of those two people, um, that the wife didn't know that he was interested. Right. So it came totally out of left field and um it was it was a little disconcerting yeah but i think the the point that i'm trying to make is that i know that there are men in the lifestyle who don't advertise or talk about their bisexuality that are indeed willing to explore it and that's perfectly fine right but it wasn't, they don't have it on their profile.

So I guess I'm just validating that I know personally that there are guys out there who are afraid or choose not to talk about it and choose not to put it on their profile, but they do want to explore it. That's all I'm saying. Okay. It's from a personal perspective, I know that.

Well, from the the wife's perspective i'm just thinking about this wife she didn't notice what happened no but she i believe she knows her husband does have that interest but just that particular night didn't expect that to happen yeah yeah so but i want to go back to him to me because sometimes i feel like I'm going to defend men. A lot of times I pick on guys, but this time I'm going to defend men. Look, I'm a middle-aged, privileged white guy. I mean, I can say that now. And I, but I didn't choose the neighborhood I grew up in. I didn't choose the class I was born into.

I didn't choose the school that I went to. I didn't choose the suburb I lived in. I didn't choose the church I went to. This was all part of society forming my thoughts about what it was, right or wrong or whatever, for a man to be with another man. So it never entered my mind that it would be something that I should be open to and explore. As a matter of fact, when it did enter my mind, it was wrong, or it was supposed to be wrong, or it was supposed to be bad, or it was supposed to be a sin, or whatever. So that's how I was brought up.

Now, my own personal opinion, I could be wrong about this, but because I was influenced that way, I would never look at another man. This is what I love about women. Women can look at other women and say, oh my gosh, look at her legs. I know know she's beautiful. I know. Yeah. Look at her hair. We're totally allowed to do that. I was never allowed to do that. Guys just weren't allowed to do that. You just didn't do that. And because I didn't, we don't do that. We don't appreciate the male body because we're taught that that's wrong. That's taboo. You shouldn't be interested in the male body.

Right. Well, guess who also has a male body? Me. So then I'm looking at myself as an adolescent and as a teenager, and I'm saying, this thing that's hanging between my legs, you know, it's ugly.

You know, it it's a pain it's in the way you know it's it has a mind of its own you know it's it's not anything that I'm looking at and I'm proud of it's not anything that I'm looking at and thinking wow this is really a part of who I am and I never imagined women being attracted to that I thought I understood the physiology I understood when it went in your body that it was going to create a good feeling for you. But looking at it, I mean, it's really not that great looking body part. It's weird looking in my mind.

And so I don't think I had a, well, I know I didn't have a very good, I didn't have a good positive image about that part of my body. I mean, the rest of my body was fine. I mean, I was thin, I was athletic, you know, I, I was fine with the rest of my body, but that part of my body, I didn't, you know, it just was ugly. It wasn't, and then we get married and then, you know, you enjoyed it, obviously, and you paid attention to it.

And later in our marriage, when you then started giving me a lot of blowjobs, I started to get the feeling that you were attracted to it, that it was, gosh, I'm thinking if it was that gross, she wouldn't be putting it in her mouth. Right? Well, you're a very clean person, honey. But still, I think I began, you know, shifting a little bit about, okay, well, maybe it's not this ugly thing that just serves one purpose. Maybe I should be proud of it.

You know, maybe it is attractive to some other people, but still hadn't gotten to to that point then we get into the lifestyle and other women are commenting on it and then all of a sudden i'm like oh my gosh i'm seeing it like i should have been seeing it from the beginning and then that's just it's an extension of me and it's a body part that brings somebody pleasure and women are telling me that it's nice and that it's responsive and that they like it. And so then I get to the point where I'm starting to appreciate that part of my body and liking that part of my body.

Then I look over on the other side of the bed. You know, I always had this fantasy also about you being with another man, but that fantasy was just watching you with another man. Now, when I watch you with another man, I can look at the man's body and I can appreciate the man's body as much as I can appreciate your body.

And so seeing the two of you together is what's turning me on where before it was man x or man y or whoever it didn't really matter pleasuring my wife right but now when i look at another guy and i look at his body and the way that he's using it it's very you know it's essential and it's poetic and it's strong and and it's masculine or it's all these things and i can appreciate that now but okay there's more than just a dick yeah that's having sex like it's the whole body like what attracts me to another man And then I'll see what you have to say about this is like, um, you know, one reason I like to soft swap is I like to watch a couple having sex with each other, especially a couple that's, you know, been together, like, you know, they, they have their, their deal, like they have their rhythm, like their bodies know each other and they they don't have to try like everything just fits together and moves together because they've been doing it for yet you know years right i love to watch that and again this is why i don't like to watch porn because those people are not married they have not been married forever they don't know each other sorry sorry i just can't let it go um but i like like because when you watch a couple have sex you can't see the guy's dick it's inside like but i like watching the man move like i want i like watching his legs and his shoulders like like i really like shoulders like i like to watch like the.

Like, it's a very athletic, graceful movement. That's what turns me on. Yeah. And when you've been talking about your body, I just think this is fascinating. And I don't think you're alone in your, you know, the way your gender thinks about their bodies. Like, you only worry about, like, what your dick looks like. Yeah.

Oh, this isn't even, like, a point to argue you're just gonna flat out agree yeah that's crazy yeah i know because that's probably like and i'm not i'm not saying like honestly there's so much other things i'm way more interested in i know with a guy no i'm saying that's what i'm trying to say i know that now like I could have foreplay with somebody just by looking at them the point of me telling the story is that so women will stop being so angry at me for not getting it me being the white guy the middle-aged white guy you know I I'm the way that I am for a reason and but I understand that now so to continue the story i'm still straight i i consider myself straight but i have come so far and and where where i viewed a man's body and my own body oh and i can totally attest to this just our conversations yeah and i and i can and I haven't done this yet, but I've talked about prostate massage and I've talked, I would have never talked about that before.

Right. And it would have been hard for me to talk about that with you because I'm like, oh my gosh, my wife of 30 something years, I'm going to tell her that I'm interested in this. She's going to judge me or she's going to think I'm less than a man, you know, but that conversation has to occur.

what i'm saying is that you never say never i never say never will there come a time when i'm interested in doing something with another guy i don't know maybe i mean i'm i'm open to the idea of it even though it doesn't really interest me at the moment i can see why some other men are interested in it and remember when you and i went to that um dan savage's home fest oh yeah that was a game changer for me and just briefly it's a series of short films that are homemade and they're three to five minutes long but what you end up seeing is sexual relations between all kinds of sexual identities, women and women, men and men, transgender, threesomes, old people, young people.

I think every situation was represented. Every kind of sexual orientation and identity is blended with the other. And so that's the first time on the screen that i actually saw men having sex because in my mind that was it was at first it was repulsive but then now it's not but so when i when we the first time we went to that and i watched it and i saw these two guys who really obviously cared about each other and they were into it and it was very sensual. And I picked up on the sensuality of it and the genuineness of it.

And we came out of there like, oh my gosh, now I know what it looks like. Because in my mind, my mind was telling me what it was like before and it was totally different. different. Well, it just reinforces the fact that society trains us to respond appropriately, supposedly, to different situations. So 20, 30 years ago, when you would see two men walking down the street holding hands, like it would be mind blowing. Right. Because you weren't supposed to see that. Right. According to the way the society had groomed you. Right. And, you know, and now I don't think anything of it. Right.

But, and I remember the first time I saw two guys kissing on TV, like, they're allowing that? Like, who's they?

Right right i don't know like they're allowing two guys to kiss on tv and now it happens all the time and you don't think anything the first time i saw it i had to look away i couldn't i couldn't watch it and i'm embarrassed to say that but that's that's the feeling that i got and that deep-rooted feeling doesn't come from just me making my mind up it's rooted in me but now i can watch men do that and i and i can not only can i just not think it's gross but i can enjoy it even though i i can't necessarily put myself in their place but i can i can enjoy it because i see it's real right well and and you know you we've been conditioned to accept it so once you get over that that um that ingrain uh resistance i guess to seeing that and oh that's not supposed to happen that's not natural that's whatever all the bullshit that we were taught growing up once you let that go then you can like look at it through fresh eyes and see the genuine sensuality between two people.

Now, I'll have to say when we went to Humpfest, there were two vignettes that really stuck out of my mind because we had never watched gay porn before that. I don't think I'd ever seen two men having sex for real.

Like I think, we had watched movies where it happened but it was you know cloaked i guess you couldn't really see the the physical part of it um there was one vignette and it was like two really like big burly guys and they i think they started out in the vignette with wife beaters on and like jeans and like construction boots or something you know like real manly men and they had sex and i think there were like ropes involved and this wasn't like the cool fun ropes that i've played with like my bdsm friends it was rough these were like ropes that you would make like a tree swing out of it was rough um it was really really rough and there was nothing sensual about it it was like dominance almost like the whole alpha thing one was trying to dominate the other right i struggled with that one but then there was another vignette and it was it was two men um were still very masculine, very muscular, both super attractive.

But they started out kissing. And it was very sensual. And they were making eye contact with each other. And they were touching each other's faces. And it was just, there was a lot of genuine affection in that one. And then they had sex. i was mesmerized yeah um it was so hot yep and and i think so getting back to this whole why this perception exists and and i and i think us guys are a part of the problem we are the problem and that is um first of all rarely do you see on a profile where the guy is going to say he's by interested or by something, right?

And I'm not blaming the guy, but that's what we need to see more of. We don't, we don't see that. So, so when you don't see it, you assume that it doesn't exist. Um, also this is where guys, we can help. When I, when I read the word straight in all caps, four times in one profile, that's unnecessary. You got it the first time. Because it gives people the idea that there are, that I would be afraid to mention it to somebody because it would be intimidating. Yeah.

Like that, like somebody's homophobic or somebody's insecure or somebody would actually be angry with me if I said in front of them, you know, that I'm like this. So I think, guys, we can cut down on the use of the word straight in all caps. You can say it once. There's a box you check at the top that says you're straight. Right. You don't need to check anything more than that. And I think sometimes when we get uncomfortable, when us guys get uncomfortable talking about, there's like a lot of nervous laughter. And the first thing that we do is our voices get deep and we say, I'm straight.

But I'm serious. I know. Sorry. Roll my eyes. I'm serious. This is what guys do. And it's because we don't know how to talk about it. So we default to this uncomfortable laughter and then we say, I'm straight. I'm the Marlboro man. I have a beard. We start to say all of these things and that doesn't help the guy who's in your group listening who is curious about it. He gets the feeling that I could never talk about. I can't even bring this up in this conversation because I feel like I would be attacked. So that's why, that's another reason why it exists.

And just this general unacceptance of male-male anything in our society today is a stigma against that happening. So there's some very good reasons why in the lifestyle that guys specifically don't want to put this on their profile, but it's going to take somebody who's vulnerable, confident, talk to their spouse about it, you're on the same team and willing to put yourself out there in order to change this perception. Well, you know, I just keep thinking how far our society has come in the last decade regarding homosexuality. I mean, you know, gay marriage is legal now.

There are so many blended families where the kids have, you know, two moms or two dads, and it's just, it's so socially accepted now. So I think we've made great strides in our mainstream society. So hopefully, there's a little bit of forward momentum for people to start realizing that they can authentically talk about what they're really feeling and what their fantasies really are. Yeah, you know, we have in our community, we have a men's chat, men's only every other week.

And I brought this topic up last week because I said we're going to be podcasting about this I want to get your guys feedback and I think there were about 25 guys in the room and generally speaking guys were one guy said well you know what I had an experience like that when I was in college and it was fun it. It just kind of happened, and I'm not ashamed of it, but what it taught me was I'm not interested in it, but I did it. He didn't have any problem saying that he did it, which I thought was really cool.

Most other guys said, which really surprised me, and I'm kind of proud of it, most of the guys said, you know what, I'm not interested in that right now, but never say never.

That that's the one thing i kept saying this is what i've learned in the lifestyle never say never yeah and and so if men could say that more it would give the other men who are interested a safe space to bring that up and admit you know or give them the courage that they even need to talk to their wife about it yeah so i think guys there's a lot that we can do to encourage or or create a space where that conversation can occur without it threatening you okay can i ask a really dumb question i don't know if there's a dumb question inappropriate question but i just I just now thought of this.

What? Well, you know, when I was talking about gay women, or not gay women, bisexual women, some women we've played with will, they'll kiss me, they'll like, you know, like to play with my boobs. Maybe they'll use their fingers on me, but some women are afraid to go down on me. But they'll let me go down on them. And that's okay. I mean, that's where their comfort level is. So I never thought about it from a guy's perspective. Like, do guys think, I guess I'm just gonna have to say it. I don't know how to say this gently.

Like, do guys think that they have to, like, if they're bi, curious, bisexual, that they would end up having to have, like, full-on sex with another guy? Of course.

Or, I mean, but couldn't guys just, like, touch each other or, you know, give each other blowjobs and it wouldn't have to involve any kind of penetration i mean i know i know guys are wired that you know your end goal is to penetrate yeah i can only answer from my perspective obviously but the question you didn't ask is the first question and that that is no matter what it is i have to know it's not going to turn me gay and and you're laughing, but... No, you're right.

Whether it's sucking another guy's dick or having his dick go in me or mine in his, we never get to that point because we're afraid whatever it is, it's going to turn me gay. So that's the first thing we need to set aside. I'm laughing, but that's really sad because I've never thought about that when I played with another woman. Of course not. Because my end game is to have a dick inside of me. I'm going to defend guys because that's how society raised us. Okay, so anyway, to answer your question, let me answer it this way. This may be news to you.

I have fantasized about watching another guy masturbate but in my fantasy he's masturbating because he's watching you ah so i'm so here i am if you looked at my search history you would see that i've searched guys jerking off and you might think oh he's attracted to guys but in my mind and my fantasy you're laying down there doing you're playing with yourself while he's playing with himself and so i think that's hot and i can watch him do that and i can watch his body and you know would i if you at that in my fantasy i don't know what i would do like in that fantasy if you would have looked at me and you would have said i want you to put him in your mouth i mean obviously that would make a difference because it would be something that would turn you on right now you've never done that and i've never thought about that but i'm using that as an example if we never have those conversations and if couples never have those conversations then it's less likely that men are going to start to turn this around and and start to erase the stigma is what i'm saying but yes to answer your question i mean i guess there's different levels of play like i truly and and again this is i'm part of the problem i never really thought about what that could look like right you know and that you put parameters around that like you do anything i think i think in my mind to answer your question because i'm a guy and i'm used to being the giver or the pitcher that's where i would probably be more comfortable than being the receiver right um but i can't speak for all guys but yes um there's would i put it would i let another guy put me in his mouth would i want him in my mouth would i want him to receive what i want those are all different things to your point that would be like equivalent to a woman saying, well, I can, you can kiss me and play with my booze, but I really don't want you to go down on me.

It's the same thing. Right. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. So anyway, that's the reality is, is there are men in the lifestyle who are interested in exploring that side, but they're underrepresented. And I think it's our responsibility, all of our responsibilities, not just yours and mine, to create an environment where men feel like they can bring that up and explore it without being judged. Yeah, I agree. You know what else I'm thinking of right now? Remember when we watched that TV show on Netflix called Sensate? Oh, yeah. It's S-E-N-S-E and then the number eight. Right.

I think there were, what, maybe two or three seasons. Yeah. It's ridiculously hard to explain, but there were eight people in this show and they were all like in their 30s and it was men and women. They were from all, each one was from a different country around the world. I mean, India, Iceland, Korea, I can't even remember, United States, Iceland. They were just, it was amazing. They were mentally connected. They were part of a cluster and they were mentally connected.

And each one one had like their own like superpower so to speak right um one of them was really smart one of them was an actor one of them was a police officer one of them was a martial arts expert one of them was a scientist yeah so they all had these different gifts that they could like mentally offer the other people in this cluster they didn't even realize they were part of a cluster and that that's kind of what the show was about how they all kind of came together and figured it out but one thing that would happen is that when one of them would have sex the other ones would experience it both mentally and physically right and the way the show was produced is that when one would have the experience we got to see all eight of them in that moment together and there was there was this one scene one time where there it was an orgy of all eight of them and they weren't physically together but in their minds they were and it was the most erotic thing i've ever seen on a screen yeah it was pretty hot and it was i don't know where there are four women and four men it was it was about split it was okay they were all having sex with each other and gender was really not an issue it was so amazing it was just so fluid there was what there was one girl that was gay and there was one guy that was gay the rest of them were straight but but in this scene they were just all interacting with each other and it was amazing yeah it's worth watching the show just to watch that one scene i think it happened again but the one in particular it was a little shocking because a couple of the guys were really badasses yeah and then all of a sudden to see them in a group of people where they were interacting with other men um well like one was like a chicago street cop like couldn't be the other guy the guy from germany was oh yeah he was like an assassin but yeah yeah that's that that show did a good job of of getting to the sexuality the the blended sexuality of of men and women and some of them didn't even speak the same language it was like sex was the common thread yeah that ran yeah so it's like the whole like gender fluidity yeah that was just like the epitome of it.

And it was just really bodies coming together and an attraction. People were attracted to people, not men to women or whatever. And it was fun to watch. It was hot. It was turning us on. Definitely. So here's the reality before we close. There are men in the lifestyle who do represent themselves as by something. Yes. That's a fact. There are women who openly share how watching men together turns them on. And we need to hear more from those women.

We need to know that our wives, if you are, I'm not saying to make it up, but if you're a woman and watching two men together turns you on, you need to share that with your spouse or your partner. We need to know that you like that and you wouldn't judge us for that. We also know that there are men in the lifestyle who want to explore that part of themselves and that there are men and couples you can meet and trust by being vulnerable.

So what we're saying is that once you get into the lifestyle, even if you don't want to put buy something on your profile, when you meet a couple and you become friends or a group of friends, part of friendship is being vulnerable. So find your tribe, and when you find your tribe, don't be afraid to bring this topic up and have this conversation. And we know that that happens. It's the reality. Even if the men are by something, they also respect and wouldn't try to do anything without consent.

So, you know, just because somebody is bi-curious or bisexual, if you talk about it ahead of time and you say you're off limits, then they're not going to... Right, this doesn't change the way the rules work. No, it doesn't change any of the rules. You shouldn't have a fear, you know, that you always have to be looking over your shoulder. Because the reality is, is that guys, most couples are respectful. And guess what? If they're not, you probably shouldn't be with them anyway. But here's what the reality is. We need men and couples to be more courageous and to share their stories.

You know, that's what it's going to take. People can get angry. People can scream and yell and judge and all that stuff. It's not going to get us anywhere. But you know what? You know what makes me? This all goes back to like us getting into the lifestyle to begin with um it's it's like we're encountering the second level of authenticity you know like what's the first level well the first level was for us going into the lifestyle to begin with. Right. You know, we broke the mainstream accepted norms and decided we wanted to dabble and have sex with other people. Right.

That was not okay to mainstream society. Okay. Now, here we are.

We're one level in to be in our authentic selves right now some of us have these these added desires that we want to explore and we're afraid to right and in this particular case we're talking about men who want to explore bisexuality right um even though they've broken through that first barrier and they're in the lifestyle now there's a second level that they need to bust through to really be able to fulfill their true fantasies right and it's a shame that they they feel like it might not be accepted within the lifestyle community which is the community of non-judgment. I know.

It's so ironic. I know. It's so ironic. I know. And in a community that abhors judgment, judges guys for doing this. Right. So, you know, that's, I feel for you guys, because I know you're out there, and then you probably just don't know what to do with this, this information and these desires. So you just suppress them. And are you unhappy? No, not necessarily because just like me, I can take it or leave it, but at least I've had the chance to try it. And I haven't felt judged for trying it.

I don't think men have that luxury, at least not at this point right or at least not widely at this point i shouldn't say they don't because i know there's there's bisexual men in the lifestyle that are having a great time yeah might just be a little bit more tricky to find that tribe it's a little more underground i guess right you have to be with people who you feel safe with and that know that they're not going to think anything less of you. And that's why we are so, so much encourage genuine friendships and connections in the lifestyle.

Because once you get there, you can have these kinds of conversations. Yeah. So anyway, from the women's side, there are perceptions and there's myths and there's the reality. And from the men's side as well, I think what we're saying is don't let that deter you. Just understand the landscape you're walking into, and then as a couple, have a plan. And then know that the longer that you're in this, the more you're going to grow and evolve. And so never say never. That's right. The earlier you can learn that rule. We're seven years in it. We're still saying that.

I guess not a rule, a phenomenon. The earlier you learn that, the better. And the more friends you're going to make. And the more experiences you're going to have. And the more you're going to grow as an individual, as a couple. And you're going to do things that you never thought that you would ever do. And enjoy them with people who enjoy them as well. Yep.

So, good luck to you all and um perhaps we'll check back in you know in another in the future and see how we've we may have changed in that area that's right do you have a snapshot oh yeah good since we're back out and having sex um we may have a snapshot or two when we come back. And welcome back to snapshots. I can't wait to hear your snapshot. Well, it's about you. So we're swingers and we actually have had some fun lately, but my snapshot is just you. Oh, that's sweet. Oh, yeah? What did I do? What did we do? It was last night. And we... I had a lot to drink last night. You did?

Because I didn't. Yes, you did. I was sober. You got that drink kit thing in the mail. We had one of those. Yeah, and then you made me... Well, I had a beer. Yesterday afternoon, we had a beer. Yeah. Then I was cooking out. I had another beer. Then you made me the rum drink. Then you made me a bourbon drink.

Oh, and then I made myself a gin drink, and I didn't like it, and it uh-huh uh-huh so you were like two drinks ahead of me that's why i was your snapshot yeah so anyway our house has um we we have this older home and it has an attic bedroom and our bedroom has a balcony off of it off the back of the house and you know we were really unsure on whether we wanted to buy this house or not and we had looked at it like three times and still weren't really sure because it needed a lot of renovations and this and that so anyway one day we were sitting just the two of us I don't know how that managed to happen because our daughter still lived at home at that point but it was just the two of us and i said you know what we get a balcony sex on that at that house and you were like and you didn't really say much and then the next morning i got up and there was a text from you like as soon as i got up and and it said, you've made me completely rethink that whole house.

I think we should buy it. So anyway, we bought the house in December and we live in Virginia and it's cold. Yes. So yesterday was the first night where, and it was still chilly, but we managed to do it. It was the first night warm enough where we actually went upstairs with some cocktails. I brought a candle out. We have a little table and two chairs out there. I brought a candle out. You brought our little Bluetooth speaker out and we just sat out there enjoying the outdoors and just quiet conversation. And then And I had also brought out two of my sex toys and a bottle of lube.

You walked out there and you saw the pretty candles and the cocktails and my sex toys and you're like hmm i'll be right back and you came downstairs and you got your sex toy too i didn't know it was that kind of a party i didn't come prepared so i had to go get my. So anyway, I started, well, I wore a dress, which was convenient. And so I just got my toy and I started playing with myself. You took your panties off first. I took my panties off. And then you figured out what kind of party it was going to be. Yeah. And I started using a vibrator on myself.

So then you took your clothes off and you started playing with yourself too. And I, we put our chairs so we were facing each other. So I had my vibrator in my right hand and then I started playing with you with my left hand. And, um, I think you, did you have your toy at that point in time? I don't know. Cause you had a toy too anyway. So we were just kind of like playing with each other and playing with ourselves and we were kind of facing each other. So then I started giving you a blow job. And so I had my vibrator and I was giving you a blow job and you were just sitting there loving life.

And my snapshot is that I'm giving you a blow job and I look up and you reached over and it was one of these fancy coupe glasses and was a really nice gin drink i made you and you just grabbed the glass and you took a drink of your drink as i'm giving you a blowjob and i'm like this dude has a good life yes it's a good life you just look so debonair. I had my coop glass in my hand. Yep. My wife had my dick in her mouth. I think I was grabbing my balls at that point. You were. That's what you were doing. You didn't have your toy. Yeah, you were. Oh, my gosh. That was, it was just so much fun.

Yeah. And we were on our balcony. Yeah. Just like I dreamed of six months ago. Yeah. And it kind of surprised me that that's actually my, that same scene as my snapshot too, because when you, when you finished there, oh, you can be pretty demanding and pretty rude about it. I don't even know if you remember saying this. Oh, I think I do.

But I was playing with my toy and you were were you were getting to the point where you were gonna have an orgasm and then I started breathing heavy oh I totally can read you yeah and you said don't you come I know and I'm like whoop I might have shrunk a little bit you get no you didn't believe me you didn't I was watching you you switch gears like i can watch you switch gears into where you're playing with yourself and you're trying not to come like you're enjoying it but you're you're under control i can watch you shift into that overdrive gear where you're just like i'm just gonna let it go and you did i.

Because to finish, I don't know, am I stealing your snapshot? To finish, I ended up sitting on your lap. To finish. So here's a conversation we need to have right now. What? The word finish. Well, to finish having sex. See, women don't finish. Well, I know. You just have orgasm and orgasm. That's pretty much what I was doing. So you had already had an orgasm. Yeah. So that means in the terms you're using, you had finished, but you didn't want me to finish because you wanted to finish again with me. Yeah. Okay. I wanted you to come inside of me.

So anyway, I sat on you and then I was riding you. And okay, so our house is old, right? And I kept hearing this noise. Oh, yeah. And I was like, oh, like what is that noise? And like, I mean, we had a home inspector like check out the house and they said the deck was sturdy.

But I'm is the deck like swaying like is it gonna like break like what's going on here it was my chair scooching yeah it was just your chair scooching on the tread of the floor yeah that was that was a is the word portend the right word i mean it's it's a it's a sign of what's to come in the future when it's warmer, because you kept your dress on. I had a jean jacket on, too. I was cold. I know. And you kept your jacket on, and I kept my pullover on. We were naked from the waist down. I know.

Well, that way, if any neighbor would have looked, you know, because we were three stories up, they would have seen us with clothes on.

We had our candle out there that was given to us by very special friends and we had the booze and the music and the sex toys it was it was really awesome yeah it was yesterday was just a great day and there were no mosquitoes no i think at that elevation maybe they don't fly that high i hope so no yesterday was a good day we started out we walked down and got a slice of pizza for lunch and took our pizza to brewery ate pizza and drank beer outside yeah it was a good day all right well i feel like we're like back in the game Yes. So next time we'll undoubtedly be on a podcast at Palooza High.

Yes. Most likely we'll be on a podcast to palooza high most likely we'll talk about that next month we're looking forward to that so we've mentioned our community a couple of times it continues to grow we're really excited about that the ladies book club the men's chats the friday night chats and all of the other groups that we have visit our website at wegotathing.com and check out our community. Yep. You can email me at mrjones at wegotathing.com. Or me at mrsjones at wegotathing.com. Or you can contact us on our website, wegotathing.com.

Just go to the contact me tab and fill out the form there you can follow us on twitter at we got a thing we also have a presence on pinterest and you can find us on ddn sdc and cassidy and we have links to all three of those websites for um 90 day free trial i think we do not 60 and 90 days depending on which one yep so thanks for listening we are Mr. and Mrs. Jones and we got a thing what's your thing We'll see you next time.