Episode 114: Is a Kiss Just a Kiss?

Transcript

This podcast contains explicit language and content and is for mature audiences only. Hey you teenagers out there, if you're under 18, this show is more for your parents. So now that you have that mental picture stuck in your head, put some music on and get back to doing your homework. We are a longtime married couple who's decided to chronicle our personal adventures and share our sex positive discussions as we navigate our way through the swinging lifestyle. Care to join us?

hello everyone i'm mr jones and i'm mrs jones and we want to welcome you to episode 114 of the we got a thing podcast is a kiss just a kiss that's a great question yes it's a trick question it'll be a good discussion i think well we wanted to record this one for a while it came up in a play or a lifestyle situation and then we ended up talking about it with a lot of friends and it apparently um everyone has a strong opinion about it yeah i mean it was always good conversation yeah and you know because at first is a kiss just a kiss that sounds so like trivial but there's kind always a good conversation.

Yeah. And, you know, because at first, is a kiss just a kiss? That sounds so, like, trivial, but there's kind of a lot to it. Oh, yeah. Either real or imagined. Yeah, that's a good point. We'll get into that. It's been nice to settle down here. Yes.

In Northwest Florida and have all of family back home and the christmas holidays done and i don't think we've traveled anywhere since we recorded last it's been nice we've been hunkered down settled in getting into a little bit of a routine even yep and but we did have some friends come by we've had a few friends yeah it's been nice yeah i thought we were going to be in the middle of nowhere here but people keep finding us well i think this the biggest surprise was out of the blue uh finn and emba finn and emma sorry the hosts of the normalizing non-monogamy podcast just happened to be in our town and messaged us and we were able to go to breakfast with them yeah it was a long breakfast i think that well luckily the um the crowd died down and and she wasn't really wanting our table but i think our server was like how long are these people gonna stay well there's she stopped bringing us water like the coffee was gone yeah water was empty and she didn't come back well there's something about getting together with other podcasters because we can vent to each other right well like there aren't that many opportunities to do that right so yeah when you when you meet some and people you've known for a while too it's just so nice to reconnect and get back together and, and just start like bouncing ideas off of each other.

Yeah. And I mean, we've, we've met Finn and Emma before, but this was like the first time we got to just like sit and talk like just the four of us. Yeah. Well, we were on their podcast once or twice before too. And so if you have a chance, it's a good podcast, Normalizing Non-Monogamy. Yep. And then we had some friends come through town on their annual Exodus Southbound from New England. Yes, we talked about them last year. They live in New England, and they winter in southern Florida. And it takes them, what, a good two weeks to drive down. They do it right. Yeah.

Because they have lifestyle friends all up and down the eastern seaboard. And so they kind of zigzag and cross country. And they have family, too. So they kind of just mix it up. But I think they visit a lot of lifestyle friends on the way down. Yeah. So it was good to have them. Yeah. So they actually stopped by and we took them to dinner and they spent the night. Put our guest room to use. Yeah. They got to be our guests and had morning coffee in the spa. It's not called a hot tub here in Florida. They're called spas. And then we had two sets of friends come visit. Yeah.

And we had a nice evening here. It was the first time we ever entertained lifestyle friends in our home.

I like cooked dinner for them so you grilled steak and it was so good and we got fresh shrimp from there's a little local seafood place and it looks like just this little shack and um and of course they have the best seafood so we got some fresh shrimp from there and those are the best shrimp i've ever had like you cooked them just right and i went on pinterest and found this little marinade to put them in ahead of time and oh my goodness so the food was delicious but the company was better it was and maybe we'll talk about that later yeah i i'm gonna be talking about that later.

I thought you might. Yeah. So that was fun. And in good grief, we have been barely surviving. yeah i i'm gonna be talking about that later i thought you might yeah so that was fun and in good grief we have been barely surviving this neighborhood i don't really think we knew what we were getting ourselves into when we moved in down here i know if you think these active adult communities are the place where you go to like chill and watch jeopardy in the wheel every night like no like it's we're i thought you and i could like party Thank you.

where you go to like chill and watch jeopardy in the wheel every night like no like it's we're i thought you and i could like party pretty good i know i'm having a hard time keeping up well so are our neighbors we had a couple casualties one night oh my gosh yeah we did we ended up having an after party back here and i just remember getting up the next morning and I think every piece of glassware that we owned was out on the counter or strewn about the house. Yes, yes. Yeah. Our neighbors left. It was raining the night before.

So we had jackets and umbrellas and we had all kinds of missing items.

It kind of looked like a swinger bomb without the lingerie and sex toys but it but it was a pants on party swinger bomb yeah yeah that went off very reminiscent of of that so we're having to purposefully stay inside because if we go out i know we run into somebody then we end up doing a happy hour you know what i said like the next morning like after that crazy party when we were trying to like first of all make sure everybody was okay because like well you had to like carry our neighbor okay let's not get too personal stories yes there were two people that had to have been had to be assisted home but fortunately they all live on our street so it was a short walk well they were both like right across the Thank you.

two people that had to have been had to be assisted home but fortunately they all live on our street so it was a short while they were both like right across the street from us but yeah so yeah a lot of people were doing the apology tour i know not the next morning the morning after the next morning because the next morning everybody was still asleep yeah i said we went to play um oh yes and we are playing pickleball now well we're learning we're not really like officially playing yet but we're still learning learning how to keep the score is the hardest part so totally totally but we were we were playing pickleball with some friends the next morning and i said it's like the last four decades of my life evaporated i feel like i'm behaving you know just like we did in school yeah high school college like the last four decades of my life evaporated.

I feel like I'm behaving just like we did in school. Yeah, high school, college, the whole irresponsible drinking. It's because you don't have to drive around here. Most of our shenanigans have been on our streets, so you just have to crawl a few houses down in your home. We don't even have to go on our golf cart. Yeah, and we have more friends coming over the... February is going to be busy for us. Yes. We're going to Costa Rica next week. Yes. With some friends. And this is going to be a fun vacation because we didn't plan any of it.

We just had to pay our share and then get our airfare and then show up.

It's going to be fun gonna be six couples yes and and it's supposed to be 90 degrees and sunny every day down there yeah we're staying in a beautiful house and we have some like fun things planned well and and the other five couples are all good friends and very sexy so i'm sure a good time will be had by all yeah i'm sure it will looking forward to that and then we have friends visiting we have i have high school friends visiting next month and we have other lifestyle friends coming into town so yeah february's gonna be crazy a nice month yeah and then lastly and keeping up with the Joneses, we just made a big investment.

Yes. We are going to have a We Got a Thing app. Yes. Your business manager barely authorized it. Yeah. Yes. I'm a little skeptical, but I have faith. I have faith in you and I have faith in our community. Well, I mean, we're just putting back into WGT what we're making on WGT. Yes. And we're, we're like making it more like stable and sustainable and scalable. All the things, all the business things, right? It's in development now. It's probably going to be a couple months before we're ready to launch.

But we're really excited about it this has been a long time our community is what six years old now yep and in order for us to continue to grow and keep up with um the new membership and has it scaling up and making sure the community still feels like a comfortable place and that you don't get lost in the wash right yes because i think that's the biggest fear about joining these communities as you feel lost and invisible yes and we also hired a community manager to help me yes manage the community and she is a long time friend and community member and she's doing a fantastic job she is a rock star yeah so we'll keep you posted on that but um yeah we're really excited about it our own branded app yes we're getting official all right well when we come back we're going to tackle this issue is a kiss just a welcome back to segment two where we are gonna like discuss whether or not a kiss is more important than you think it is yeah this came up in conversation when we were at desire a couple of months ago yes and everybody had a very very strong opinion about it and we thought oh this must be something that we need to talk about and then we've had a couple of personal experiences well it started because i was fired up about something yeah and do tell well i don't need to go into the gory details, but, um, I think sometimes when you, you kiss somebody, you can, it'll either like fall flat or you get in over your head really quick and the other person can misinterpret your intentions.

You know, sometimes when you're, especially like if you're at a lifestyle event, whether it's a hotel takeover or a vacation or a weekend or, or even just a date with another couple, you know, people can make assumptions about what kind of kiss you want to share with them right out of the gate.

And I tend to be a little conservative at first i'll tell you why you told everyone you were fired up and then you didn't say why you started like saying some interesting things but that's not what you were fired up about we were we had a situation where i kissed um the other man's wife and then he had an expectation that that meant he could kiss you or you could kiss him. Right. That's what the issue was. And I just wanted to hug him, kind of slap him on the back a little, give him a little peck and go get a drink. Yes, yes. Because that's where I was headed when we ran into them.

But that's not what he was thinking. So anyway, we're going to talk more about that. But I think what we've learned when we first got into the lifestyle, especially, is that, of course, the kiss is probably one of the most intimate things two people can share. You're close to each other. You're smelling. There's chemicals. There's saliva. I mean, there's eye contact. Yeah, there's all of this breathing. And so much so that a lot of, well, I'm not going to say a lot. Some couples who are newer to the lifestyle have the dreaded no kissing rule.

And we ran into quite a few of those when we were new i guess newbies attracted newbies right um it was hard yeah and what people have pointed out is wait a minute you're a full swap couple but you're no kissing so i can do penetrate to Penetra chose sex't kiss right you know it just doesn't pass the laugh test in a lot of cases in a lot of people's minds well yes but when you talk to people that have a no kissing role it's because of what you just said kissing is very intimate yeah because of the eye contact so i i think what i think what is coming out of all of this as we've talked to people is that kissing like tends to like bring emotion into it you know or like attraction emotion chemistry there's that draw with a kiss where like if you're in a playroom at a club and you're just kind of like experiencing sex there's going to be people like touching you and and this and that and it's very um it's just very notional, but impersonal is what I'm thinking of.

It can be. Right. If you're in a big playroom and you're just playing with people and people are just kind of going around and doing whatever to whoever, you know, it's not intimate. Even though you're doing really intimate sexual things, it's not an intimate environment. Okay. So let's talk about what a kiss means, very simply. It's a personal expression. I mean, not making a big deal out of it. It's a greeting. Right. I mean, it's a greeting, and I think it's just a way to show just general affection. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's a goodbye kiss, or it's an expression of love.

It could be a prelude to a hug or vice versa. You know, sometimes those go hand in hand, right?

A kiss kiss and then a hug at least that's what we we do where we're from yeah and some people don't do that but i found that i do there's a kiss and then there's a hug um but it also can be a gateway to intimacy oh for sure yeah like for me that is the gateway to intimacy right um and it gives you it can give you a glimpse of the real person because a moment ago you were talking about it being impersonal sometimes when you're having sex because even though your body parts might be touching your head can be distant from the other person's head and you can close your eyes and you can be in a different space but when you're kissing somebody and so you were just talking both like emotionally separated and physically separated as well right like well even if you're physically joined if you're having intercourse with somebody you can close your eyes and be in your own head space yeah but when you're kissing somebody i find it hard to think of something else except for that person because that's a good point they're right there yeah you know they're they're like we said the the taste the smell the the sounds the breathing the heartbeat i mean all of that is something that you can't distance yourself from yeah so i think that's what probably a lot of people who are newer to this lifestyle are afraid of and and we do find that the no kissing rule is mostly people who are new yeah that's true a little bit insecure so let me ask you a question can you think of anybody that we've ever met with a no kissing rule that still has a no kissing rule yeah i mean well i mean there are a couple couples that we lost touch with so they might still but the the couples that we actually became friends with all kind of ended up not giving that up but just growing away from that right right because i think you know after you do this a couple times and and they're and it's a good experience with your partner yeah then you realize you and your partner are going to be fine yeah so basically that that's what a kiss means um we threw this question out in our community and got a boatload of comments on this so i try to summarize this but most people here's what people said a kiss is a gateway into getting to know somebody a kiss gets your engine running that's what you just said yes do you want to talk more about that well I can't like it's really really hard for me to like want to take things further with sex if i can't really get into kissing the person right like that um it i don't know like i've got to have a good kissing session before yeah it does it turns me on and it relaxes me and it helps me figure the person out especially like like the first time I play with somebody.

It's really hard to play with somebody if you don't have, take the time to just have like a good makeout session. Right. And for me, honestly, I like a good makeout session just as much as I like sex. Right. Kissing lets me know if the other person can read my body language. For sure. Yeah. So some people get it and some people don't get it. Yeah. Because if somebody's withdrawing or trying to close their mouth, but yet you keep jabbing your tongue down their throat.

It's not usually that dramatic, but yeah, like, you know, I'll try to like wrap up a kiss sometimes and like you know the guy won't let go yeah you know so then i'm just trying to kind of like squirm out of his like grasp yeah someone else said where i'm from a simple kiss is considered a warm greeting and we get into cultural issues based on what part of the country or the world that you're from but a lot of people in the states think that way yeah just it's what we do um it depends on the environment and the situation there was a lot of conversation around this because if a lifestyle date with a couple you've never met is very different than a trip to desire with people that you've known for years and so it depends on the environment and the people that you're with as to whether it's um what kind of a kiss it's going to be right and you know and it also has to do with like your location because when we were new we really didn't do much of anything in our local town.

And then as time went on, you know, we got more comfortable and started understanding like the, like the dynamic and the, the, like the flow, I guess, of a lifestyle date. And, and we weren't so concerned about like running or meeting people in our town and going out to dinner with them but sometimes they would forget like especially if they were out of town from out of town and they were in our town i think they would forget sometimes that we were in our town yeah and our next door neighbor could walk by any minute right you know so you you have to be aware of that too.

Um, and sometimes I would be guilty and I would get carried away. Um, but you know so you you have to be aware of that too um and sometimes i would be guilty and i would get carried away um but you know for the most part you you have to keep your environment in the back of your mind so that you're doing the appropriate thing at the appropriate time because otherwise that can be a turnoff like it's a disrespect it's disrespectful i sometimes. Some people said a kiss does not need to be anything more than a kiss. And then after that, this one is tied into it. A kiss is not consent to have sex.

For sure. So there are people out there we know that believe that if you let me kiss you, that means you've opened the door for everything. Then there are people out there that are new to the last owl who are afraid to kiss somebody because they're afraid that that's exactly what that means. But when it comes down to it, a kiss is nothing more than a kiss. That's all it can be. It doesn't guarantee anybody anything more. Well, right. It can predict, I guess, like the experience of the kiss can predict, you know, either what could be or what won't be if it's not a good one.

Yeah, and that's the next one. Kissing is necessary for a connection to move forward. You know's it's hard to skip that kiss even if um that is just like the natural starting place yeah for the physical connection yep um and the last comment was a bad kiss is a deal breaker oh yeah because if the person doesn't match your kissing style they're probably not not going to match any other style either. Well, let me ask you a question. Have you ever been with a couple and kissed the woman and the man and had one of them be a bad kisser and another one be a good kisser?

You know the answer to that question because it just happened to us and we talked about it. It happened last year. We were at an event and I kissed the husband and you kissed the wife. And when we got back together that night, I said something and you were like, darn, you know. And that's usually, that's strange. That usually doesn't occur. Right. Because usually if one of them is a good kisser, that means they're both good kissers because they kiss each other. But every once in a while, you'll find that that's not the case. Or what it is is somebody can't read body language.

Because I tend to kiss in response to how I'm being kissed.

So sometimes if it's a little bit more aggressive, it's just because that person is being aggressive with me and it feels natural right but mostly i say by default i'm a very like soft and sensuous kisser and not a very aggressive assertive kisser i would say that's true yeah which i like well what a coincidence again that's because we taught each other how to kiss and yeah i think when we first start dating and i i think after the first time you kissed me i don't think you told me right away but after that you made the you made a comment to somebody that i was a good kisser and i was like well thank goodness because I didn't have a lot of experience back then.

It's because, it's because the, the girl that I, the girls that I worked with, I told them that I was going to go out with you. And, um, they, they knew who you were and they were asking me about it like the next day.

And I said's a really good kisser and they were surprised because you're such a nice guy they thought that you were going to be like this nice because you're very mild mannered let's be real they said you don't want to go out with him he's too nice well they did say that i was going to try to keep that a little because i was more secret but i was i wanted to have one night stands like a lot of other guys said they did and probably never did but i knew as soon as i would go out with a girl and she would want to take me home to introduce her to her mom that it wasn't gonna happen i'm like i don't want to be that guy no but you are a really good kisser yeah thank you so what does the kiss mean to us to you and i yeah as a couple i think i don't know like like we got some bad news today right and it's bad news one of our friends and it was just, it was just really, really sad.

It was relationship bad news. Yeah. And I just, you know, after we, we finished our call with her, I remember we just kind of hugged each other and kissed each other. It was just, it was comfort, right?

So when you've been married married forever like we have it there's so many more like ways or purposes to kiss I think right and a lot of times it's just comfort I'll like I'll walk by your office and you're sitting there working and you just look so cute I just go in and I kiss you and I don't even say anything I just go in and I kiss you and then I walk away and go back to my office and work you know so it doesn't like to me a kiss can be so many things but like I don't know I just like a good makeout session well for me it's a connection you know it between you and I it re-establishes our connection and for somebody new it's there to kind of make a connection right right and you've you've said this it revs the engines i mean my heart rate starts to go up my breathing rate starts to go up and my hands might start to move around depending on who who I'm with.

And it can progress to more depending on the situation. But in my mind, it's all about connecting. Well, and especially, I think especially when you're with somebody new. I mean, because you're nervous. I mean, you're excited, but you're nervous because it's, it's like the unknown, right? Like if you haven't been with them before. And to me, a kiss kind of just like, like it, it steadies me and it kind of like lets me know what I'm getting into. Um, and it, it doesn't have to be like crazy wild.

It's almost better if it's just like really slow and sensual because it relaxes me and it kind of gets me into the zone and then I can like take it from there. Yeah, and it's also progressive in nature.

You know, your lips separate maybe more quickly at first and then they stay together and connected longer and then the mouth may open a little bit but i'll tell you what the the west the the things that caught me off guard a couple times is when i go a woman goes to kiss me and the first thing i get is her tongue in my mouth and that isn't you know natural that's happened to you a few times and i'm sitting here thinking because you were talking kind of like about the mechanics of the kiss with the lips and then the mouth open and and i'm like i don't even know how i kiss yeah don't overthink it i know now i'm gonna be like all weird the next time i kiss somebody you're gonna be you're gonna be now do i tilt my head to the right or the left i know well that happens like especially with somebody new you don't know whether to like tilt your head to the left or the right and your nose.

You always tilt to the right first, but then when you get into the sensual kiss, then you do the nose crossover and go to the left. I didn't know this was going to be a mechanic's lesson. It's a move. Yeah, it's a move that I have. Kissing 101.

Yeah, and then when it gets really deep then i put my hand around like the base of your neck oh yeah and then i like i have the your back of your skull in my hand and then i just pull it into me a little bit i like that yeah and then with you i might actually grab some hair while i'm back there yeah you do that sometimes yeah then the breathing gets really anyway where was I okay so it's about love it's about romance it's about love it's about romance it's about sex um but what does a kiss mean in the lifestyle i think it's more exploratory at least at first yeah you're getting to know the person without words right and so what does it mean is it consual?

Because a lot of people ask if I may kiss you. And a lot of people, maybe the body language, like if you've been flirting with somebody and you put your arms around their waist, and you kind of lean in, that lean in is picking up consent.

So instead of me saying, you know know i'd really like to kiss you if there's that connection and i'm leaning in and i feel that she's like moving away then i don't i stop yeah or if i feel like she's leaning in and i'm leaning in then i feel like i have content but if it is like if there are words, I like it when a woman says, I've been thinking about kissing you all day, or I would really like to kiss you now. It's almost not a question, but it's just a statement. Yeah, that's nice. I'm hardly paying attention to you because I'm reflecting back. What?

But you know we we used to be really good about not playing on the first date and and actually we are still pretty good at that um you know a couple of our best first dates were dates where we did not play but we had great makeout sessions yes and there's nothing like you know leaving and and wanting more because then the next time you get together when you do play yeah it's like game on yeah because you've already kind of had the makeout session and you figured each other out and you know you like each other's kissing style and you start to learn these little triggers about what people like.

I kind of like ears and some guys really kind of like to have their ears touched and maybe even like their little earlobe nibbled or whatever and some guys don't like that at all.

When a woman goes through my ear, the first thing I think of is oh my gosh i hope there's no earwax in there i hope it's clean that's why we have q-tips honey um another thing about a kiss in the lifestyle is is their chemistry we talk about chemistry a lot it's one of those things that you can't really describe but if it's the pheromones or if it's you know your scent yeah things that you can't really describe, but if it's the pheromones or if it's, you know, the, your, your scent, the scent of a woman or, or a man, you know, they're, you're close enough to each other where you, there, you can, you can feel that chemistry or not, or not.

Yeah. You're going to know one way or the other. Yeah. And it gives you a glimpse into their style too because you were talking a minute ago about um like we were talking about people being really aggressive and assertive with their kiss and then that makes you wonder well is that how they're going to be in bed right right and i kind of like that but not off, you know, that's got to be a buildup. Right. And some people aren't really maybe good at like reading the room in that regard and kind of like matching their pace to the other person's pace.

And just like give me a hot minute to catch up to you, right?

I don't think I'm completely boring in bed, but it does take me a minute to get comfortable yeah and let go yes and in the lifestyle you have to ask yourself is this a kiss that evolved does it get any or does it get any deeper or does it end at the peck on the cheek or a peck on the lips yeah because and that ties into the next one which is is there balance between you and your partner because sometimes and you and i were talking about this at dinner either i won't feel a connection or my head is just in a different space and i go in to do a kiss on the lips but it's not a make-out kiss and then i turn around and then you're lip locked yeah or vice versa you know it's happened both ways it usually happens the other way well it's happened both ways and it is a little bit awkward because we don't talk ahead of time i mean people are grabbing their coats or you're getting ready to leave or right um whatever and and you may feel a different connection than i do and sometimes when you're both kissing at the same time and one couple doesn't take it as far you're just sitting there i know i know how long are they gonna do this and then every once in a while or once in a while i might look over and try to get a glimpse to see what the progression is on your side yeah so i can at least try to match that yeah or or not or break the suction yeah right but i want to go back to the thing about a kiss in the lifestyle it's like it's body language because i was just describing to you lips breathing heart rate tongue hands move but then your body starts moving and your bodies might get closer and you might wrap your arms around you know each other and you know so it's is it's body language that comes along with the kiss that lets you know if there's possibly something more Yeah.

Yeah. Doesn't mean that there's going to be. No, but there's not going to be if you can't get started, right? That's right. So at least if you're, if you're kissing somebody, you're, you're exploring the possibilities. Right. That's kind of the way I look at it. Well, I mean, let's go ahead and talk about what it's not. It's not an invitation, necessarily an invitation for more. Right. There are people that just like to kiss. Yeah. Without going any further than hot and heavy kiss. That's fun. Yeah.

And I think I've been in the lifestyle long enough now and we have friends that I feel like I can kiss women who I don't necessarily want to play with or vice versa just because it's fun to kiss yeah it's just fun nothing more um it's not a guarantee of more and it's certainly not blanket consent to anything no so for goodness for those of you out there who are afraid to either allow your partner to kiss somebody or you're afraid to kiss somebody because you think it's sending the wrong message you have to send a message remember you're in this lifestyle for a reason right you're exploring you have to have enough rope or you have to you know your leash has to be long enough for each other so that you can explore kissing to know if there's some sort of a connection there.

Right. But it doesn't mean you can't stop it at any time. Right. I mean, like I, you know, I'll say, may I kiss you? I, you know, and that's what I mean. May I kiss kiss you that's all i'm asking to do right and and that's all i want in return unless there's more words involved okay so let me ask you this like i ask before i nibble a guy's ear because i know it's i know some guys like it and some don't well that's just so i don't just the ear. That's just like a foot rub. Well, and nipples too. You guys are kind of crazy about your nipples. No, it's because you come after me. I don't hurt you.

It says you. They're my nipples. If I say it hurts, it hurts. Well, you're not alone. Like guys are very funny about their nipples. And a lot of guys really like to have their nipples laid with, but then a lot of guys will go to an instant soprano falsetto squeal. Yeah, man, you've ruined me because now any woman who gets her lips near my nipples, I just, I, I think they're going to bite them off. Oh my God. I've never bit your nipples.

Well, i think they're gonna bite them off oh my god i've never bit your nipples well you've never yeah i feel like you have there's been teeth marks i think you're mixing me up with another woman i've never ever chewed on your nipples before okay well back to my question what's the difference for you between kissing a man and kissing a woman Thank you. Question. What's the difference for you between kissing a man and kissing a woman? Oh, man. Sorry about the dead air there. Um, well, should I play the jeopardy music? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I don't know.

I think women tend to go into a kiss with another woman without nervousness or whatever.

I think it's just easier to kiss another woman because I think we we just really appreciate the the different sensations you get from kissing a woman than from kissing a man that has either a scratchy five o'clock shadow or a beard of some sort like it just it feels different like i don't know it smells different like women smell so good oh and men smell bad oh you don't smell bad you guys smell good too but women smell so good do you find because women don't necessarily unless they're wearing a strap on women women are not a quote-unquote threat to take it further and have penetrative sex.

P-I-V. Thank you. I didn't want to use acronyms. I hate acronyms. Do you think there's a difference between kissing a woman and kissing a man because of that?

With a man, it can progress to sex with a woman it's it's sometimes playful but it's not the same sort of sexual experience right um i don't necessarily agree with that but do you do you think women are less or more assertive than men with their kissing i think it's equal oh okay because i i don't know i've just i've watched women with you i am not very assertive and i know that about myself but we we've encountered a lot of female friends in the lifestyle that are much more assertive than i am with me me? Yeah. But I'm talking about with you. Oh, with me? Like when you kiss another woman.

Well, I think if we're going to play, sometimes women can be very assertive because it's just, you know, it's fun and we don't get to do it that often.

I mean like you know when you're when you are married to somebody of the opposite sex and you're sleeping in the same bed every night you have lots of opportunity but like for a woman to play with a woman it's got to be on a lifestyle date okay um so i think it's we i think we like to take advantage of being together why do you think then that some men are okay with their wife kissing another woman, but they're not okay with their wife kissing another man?

Well, I think it's because they're maybe confident that their women, their wives, their partners are not maybe bisexual enough to want to leave them for another woman. Right. And that's a misnomer, right? Yeah. We have a couple of friends that that's happened to. Yeah, but I mean, and those are non-lifestyle friends.

I just think that there are a lot of men who are a little bit insecure and i was too at first but if you're insecure your your perception that it's that you're safer with a woman your your wife your spouse or your partner kissing other woman than another man is not is not exactly true you you could have feelings for a man or a woman right yeah true yeah but the early perception is otherwise why because you i mean i even told you when we first got into this well yeah that was another woman yeah that was the original fantasy we were going to have a threesome with another woman right because you thought that that was non-threatening well and because i thought it was hot yeah yeah i didn't well and i did after a while with other men too i thought that was hot watching you do that but not at first yeah okay sorry i did not go down the path you wanted me to go down no i was just i didn't plan on asking those questions as we were talking about this that you because you all you kiss i mean men kiss each other too but it's it's not as prevalent so i would we wanted to know the difference with you we're talking about kissing i just wanted to know the difference between if you were kissing a woman versus kissing a man i think kissing a woman's just it's like i said it's just a treat because i don't get to do that very often I get to kiss you all the time you know and obviously you kiss different than than other men because we all have our own unique styles but um yeah I mean for a woman to get to kiss another woman it's just it's a it's a treat yeah and I would consider myself I think I started to talk to talk about this talk about this, but I'm a responsive kisser when it comes with you or anyone.

I tend to read the room and I give back what I feel like the person's giving to me. And sometimes that's more aggressive and assertive and sometimes it's not yeah i mean and that's pretty much the way you are with sex in general. Yes. Like you, I usually have to start something and then you're really good at taking it and running with it. Yeah. But I think like, even when, um, I was just going through like all my sex books, cause we're going on vacation. I wanted to take a couple with me and I was looking at all the books we have.

And I just remember like picking out, we have this one book where you could pick out these scenarios and you would never pick one out. You always wanted me to pick the one out. I don't know if it's cause you want to meet it. Like, you know, pick out something that would turn me on. No. It's not just sex, honey. What? What restaurant do we want to go to? What movie do we want to watch? It's all because that's how I am. I want you to, I'm like, I can have, you want to eat a hamburger? I'll eat a hamburger. And then if I get to pick the place and you don't like it, we don't go there.

But it's the same thing. It's not just about sex. I'm just, I'm the giver. I'm the one who just, and I'm happy doing that. Yeah. But I mean, like when we have sex, don't you ever have any ideas that you want to, like, fulfill? Any fantasies? No, I don't think so, because you don't have fantasies. No, I'm talking about you, babe. I know, but I don't, no, no. Remember, because we have friends. We've talked about this before.

There are, and this is not a knock on anyone i think it's a pretty healthy way but there are men who push their partners to do things that their partner might not even want to do because they know their partner will like it and then she ends up liking it right i am not that kind of guy i'm not going to push you do anything right i'm gonna if anything i'm gonna react and pull back so i'm that way with everything not just sex all right but there are other people out there that so it like for example if you told me you had a fantasy if you told me you liked watching porn i would i would all over that.

But I know that you don't like watching porn, so I'd never suggest it. Yeah. Well, I mean, do you think I would say no? No, I think you would say yes. But if you don't enjoy it, why would I want to watch it? Well, maybe I don't know that I would enjoy it. I know. That's what I was just saying. Yeah. I'm just conditioned to be the Labrador. That's just my personality. You're right. Maybe I shouldn't. Okay. So we're going to watch porn next week. Oh, boy. Oh, no. We're going to be in Costa Rica. Maybe when we get back. We're going to be watching live porn next week.

So as we close this up, what we're going to do is summarize this, and then we're going to read. I'm going to be watching live porn next week. So as we close this up, what we're going to do is summarize this and then we're going to read, I'm going to let you read since you have the sexiest voice on iTunes, a comment one of our members made that is really eloquent and sums everything up. So a kiss is very simple, right? But it's also very complicated. It's deep. I mean, that's the thing. It can start out as something very simple, but it can evolve quickly. Yeah.

But the act itself, I mean, it's just lips on lips. It's pretty simple. Yeah. But it's complicated. People are all over the board with how they feel about kissing. Yeah, that's for sure. So you can't have a perception about kissing, about what that means with somebody, just because it means something to you or to the person you were with last time. It may be completely different with the person that you're with. Kissing is necessary to connect. Well, we're saying that kissing is necessary to connect. Right. Yes. Kissing should be consensual. That's true for everybody. Yes.

And kissing does not guarantee anything more than a kiss. Again, that should be the gospel.

Right i think if i think if people trusted that it would be a lot easier for people to make connections because i think um you know especially like when you're new or you're meeting or even if you're not new and you're meeting new people you you tend to just be in defense mode yeah and the other thing and i think i just i started to talk about this a minute ago i've been in the lifestyle for a long time and now like like when before we were in the lifestyle if you and i started kissing and then making out and then really getting hot and heavy we would go to the bedroom and have sex yeah it was kind of a natural ending for that beginning.

In a lifestyle, it's not like that. We can be in the hot tub in the afternoon or we can be with old friends and I can get into a five to 10 minute makeout session and then we stop making out and it doesn't go anywhere else. And I can appreciate it for what it was. It was a very hot, sexy, kissing make-out session. But we didn't drag each other into the bedroom. You might. Right. But that doesn't mean that you have to. You can just enjoy the making out. Right. And then sit down for a while until your erection goes away, and then you can get up and walk away. Right.

Okay, do you want to read this? Sure. Okay, here we go. I have so many thoughts about kissing. I love to kiss people. I love fun, short, playful kisses. I love long, sensual kisses. I can find a kiss lovely, but it's just a kiss. And at other times I'm so turned on that I practically orgasm. How I react to a kiss is partly to do with my attraction level to the other person, but also has to do with my own state of mind and just time and place. But all that being said, a kiss should never be automatically expected due to any reason.

It shouldn't be expected due to prior kissing, nor should it be expected because my partner kissed their partner. Amen to that. My kiss is my gift to give, mine alone. And of course, the body language I use with a good friend who knows me will likely be a good indicator of consent. But there's at the very least that momentary pause. The eye contact, the lean in, the smile, the allowance for a kiss to be closed mouth. When a man or woman I know approaches me and is able to provide all that nuance and to carefully read my response, it is so appreciated.

And with anyone new, the question needs to be asked. But I must admit, if it's someone I'm not flirting with, not touching at all, not making some major innuendo towards randomly asks me for a kiss, I find it very out of place. A kiss needs to happen in the context of obvious attraction. You aren't asking me for a stick of gum, and I fortunately have mostly found my voice and am able to say no. But I do carry with me the discomfort of making that other person feel bad. But I'm trying to realize that it is not my burden to bear. As long as I'm kindly honest, that's all I owe anyone.

Now on the flip side, even if I passionately engage in a kiss, I don't believe anyone should presume that that is licensed to automatically take things further. Nor do I believe that anyone should assume that play is now on the table. I appreciate kisses for what they are in their entirety. And of course, they can help us gauge attraction level, chemistry, and connection. But there are many other variables in order to leap from that to a four-way connection play situation. Can it open the door to pursuing and discovering that connection? Absolutely. Is it some 100% green light? Never.

And I know the question of being a tease looms over this entire conversation of the kiss, but literally every aspect of our broader social interaction within the lifestyle could fall under the vanilla world's traditional definition of a tease. And to me, someone who hurls a tease accusation with negativity is dangerously close to the, she asked for it mindset. We dress provocatively, isn't that a tease? We share naughty pics, isn't that a tease? We sometimes are sexual exhibitionists, isn't that a tease? And we kiss people, but only kiss them. That is a tease.

But that's part of the game, part of the excitement, part of what makes all of this so stimulating, not being able to predict what will happen next, which essentially means not being able to presume what will happen next and just enjoying the ride. Amen's a good one i know she just covered our entire podcast i know thank you for that sexy friend sexy smart friend yes she always has a good way with words and when she posted that in our community everyone else pretty much stopped talking. Nothing more to say after that one. And she's exactly right.

And yeah, that whole, she asked for it mentality. It's just, it's so unfortunately prevalent in the vanilla world. And at least in the lifestyle world that you and I try to stay part of, it's much less prevalent. Yes. Yeah. You know, sometimes guys are blockheads, but I've never felt, I can't really say never. I mostly never feel like I lose control of the situation. Right. Sometimes you have to awkwardly use words and say no, thank you. Well, and like we've said before with people, you have to turn down if, and I like the way that she says she's found her voice to a certain extent.

When you call it off or break it off, it can be awkward. And you know what? People may get their feelings hurt or their egos may be bruised. And that's understandable. What is not understandable is how they react to that.

So if there is any accusatory tone coming back at you like you started it or you're a tease um that's really there's no place for that and if somebody gets upset or angry and stomps away because you got their motor running there's no place for that either so what you've learned something about them that you probably made the right decision from calling it off because if that's how they're going to act when you call it off you wouldn't want to be with them anyway right right Thank you.

from calling it off because if that's how they're going to act when you call it off you wouldn't want to be with them anyway right right okay so a kiss is not just a kiss i know i think we it's complicated but it's fun and keep practicing yep see this is why i'm so obsessed with chapstick oh my gosh you're not you're not obsessed you're addicted i am i i mean i i won't i can't even like try to deny it i probably have 50 things of lip gloss chapstick sunscreen chapstick sparkly chapstick red lipstick like i got it all and you know what i did when we moved to florida i threw all my chapstick away well you're weird no i didn't want to be addicted to it because I was putting it in Virginia in the wintertime I'm putting it on all the time too yeah down here there's no reason to well now you need sunscreen chapstick I know well that's fine I'll put sunscreen on that's a whole different thing that's when we're at the beach but your lips are really important well we've just discussed all i know i know i agree all right well i hope you enjoyed that conversation and when we come back speaking of kissing we'll share a couple of snapshots all right welcome back to snapshots we actually have a snapshot again i do i think it's the same one so you you go first and i'll jump in all right well okay this is when um we had our our two couples over for a sexy dinner we had steak we had steak and you and i prepared the dinner well they brought they brought stuff too but we had done the cook you know the rice and the and the shrimp and the steak and everything so anyway we it was in our kitchen so we were all sitting around the dining room table which is right next to the kitchen and um and it was time to clean up and the other two husbands got up and cleared the table and they cleaned my kitchen for me point of order what one of the two gentlemen got up to clean the kitchen and then you made a comment about how sexy that was and then the other man got up and helped him clean hey well we just talked about reading room.

He took the cue perfectly and ran with it. I didn't really mean that. I was just commenting, but the fact that he jumped on that. Then they started arguing with each other because one of them asked me where a certain dish went and I told him. And then the other one went to put it away.

And then he went to put it away and you gave him credit you said look he even knows where it goes and the other guy said no he told him where it goes he didn't know where it goes they were like fighting for your attention that's okay whatever was going on was totally working that was the best floor foreplay ever they were in my my kitchen and they were cleaning and they're both so adorable and oh my god it was so sexy i had to go through the cupboards and rearrange everything and put it back to where it was well thank you then you're sexy too that all three of you are amazing so that was like the foreplay for me and then we all went out and uh and got in the spa and did a little soak and a little we used the I think we employed we deployed the blowjob curtains yes we deployed the blowjob curtains um and we it was a good thing we did that because i think things started getting a little steamy out there yes not just because of the the spa temperature so then we ended up coming in and all six of us ended up on our bed and and we all played i think i think i played with just about everybody i think we all made the rounds and did a good job of playing but at the end it was just um me and and one of the couples it was the husband and the wife and me i think everybody else had wandered out i went to get water you went to get water there was Thank you.

me and, and one of the couples, it was the husband and the wife and me. I think everybody else had wandered out. I went to get water. You went to get water. There was no food involved this time. I thought there might've been food involved. I think I just got bottles of water. Yeah. Anyway, um, the three of us were in there and I was giving him like a blow job and a hand job and his and his wife was kissing him and, and helping me out. And, and, um, and it, it was fun. And then all of a sudden he said, so I was kind of like laying on my side next to him.

I had shifted myself up and I think I was kissing him and he looked at me and he said, I'm going to come. And I'm like, okay, do you want me to stop? And he was like, no.

So at this point I was was using my hand so he came and I guess I'm a little out of practice because no I think this means you are in practice I was in practice I had him aimed at a very bad trajectory and he hit himself in the face when he came I think that's that's good it was impressive it was impressive this is not i mean he's not old but he is not a young boy either well he was proud he's a grown ass man i think he was proud of i think it might have caught him off guard at first but then he was like well damn i did that it was very very sexy but it was also hysterically funny. Yeah. Oops.

Yeah. And while that was going on, and of course, medically speaking, I'm not back to 100% yet. It's getting pretty close. But at one point in time, I tried to have sex with you. Right. And it didn't work. No. And then when you switched your attention to the other couple can I just say something though let me back up the train yeah see you sometimes I think you are only like thinking back to how it used to be and that's not our reality anymore so like when you're like halfway hard and you can't really penetrate me, but there's just a whole lot going down on there, like going down there.

Like my best spots are on the outside of me. So I still think that that's really, really hot. Okay, noted. Okay. Yeah, from my perspective, I know I'm light years away from having sex with another woman because I can't get a condom on. Right. That is a problem. So you're my, you're ground zero. You're stuck with me. Yeah. You're my main target. We've been bonded fluid for four decades. I think it's all good. Yeah.

So yeah, it's a combination of me not being creative with you but it's also my desire to at least get myself inside of a woman that's my goal at any rate that didn't work but i had another friend there who went down on me and um i finished with her ah all right yeah so it was fun yeah it was fun. Yeah, it was fun all the way around. It was one of those situations where six people who know each other well, no drama, free-flowing, laughing. Oh, my gosh. We laughed so hard that night.

Like my face hurt the next morning just my cheeks from laughing laughing orgasming just it was it was a really that's what it's all about yeah that's what it's all about yeah and they're really special people too yes so thank you all for that we appreciate that and we need to i need to start packing i hear we're going to costa rica at the end of the week i've already packed i'm ready yeah so we talked a little bit about our community but if you would like to join us you can find information on our website at we got a thing.com w-e-g-o-t-t-a-t-h-i-n-g dot com if you have any questions about that you can send me an email or just send me an email in general mrjones at wegotathing.com or me at mrsjones at wegotathing.com follow us on x at wegotathing still doesn't sound normal you're not going to say formerly known as twitter no well you just did yeah and if you want free trials for either sdc or cassidy you can do so on our website or you can book your desire trips yes through our website as well so thanks for listening we are mr and m.

Jones, and we got a thing. What's your thing? We'll see you next time.