Swinging Lifestyle + Hotwife Lifestyle Podcast - Wanderlust Swingers Podcast
The Swinging Lifestyle is often portrayed poorly in mainstream media. After a recent TikTok video went viral we received the attention of a number of news outlets around Europe and in the UK. This bonus episode is a behind the scenes recording of the interview with a UK journalist.
Get behind the scenes and listen in as we talk about the swinging lifestyle and do our best to portray it positivley and accurately. It's not all rainbows and lollipops being a swinger after all.
Read the link below to the article published in the New York Post "Globe Trotting Swingers" and for a little extra spice, read the negative comments left by the public.
Other Links
New York Post Article https://nypost.com/2022/10/12/globe-trotting-swingers-share-where-they-feel-most-liberated/
Cate’s new TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@wanderlustswingers
Wanderlust Swingers Instagram
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We are a swinging lifestyle podcast, we talk about sex, being a hotwife and non-monogamy, please ensure you are of legal age to be listening to our sexy stories.
If you’re interested in learning more about the swinging and hotwifing lifestyle join us on our sexy swinger hotwife podcast. We share information our personal experiences and journey, swinger event, swinging dating sites, reviews for swingers resorts and more.
Transcript
You're listening to the Wanderlust Swingers Podcast with Aussie hosts, Kate and Daryl. If you're curious about exploring your sexuality or the swinging, hot-wifing and non-monogamous lifestyle, you've definitely come to the right podcast. Or maybe you just love travel adventures. Either way, we share our personal, sometimes juicy, sexy stories as well as Swingers Club and event reviews, interviews with other sassy people, and of course, our global swinging adventures. We try to bring you a look into the diverse lifestyle that the swinging and non-monogamous community has. We hope you enjoy.
Now let's get into the episode. G'day and welcome to a bonus episode of the Wanderlust Swingers podcast. We just returned from a whopping 21 days away, visiting hedonism in Jamaica, visiting Canada and visiting New York City. And in the upcoming episodes, we're going to talk all about our time away, our reviews, our sexy fun, what we thought about it. So we went to a club in Toronto, the Oasis Aqua Lounge. We went to a club in Montreal, Club L. We visited that with the Honeyspoons and we spent a week at Hedonism Jamaica for the first time ever at that resort.
So those are the episodes that are coming up soon. Lots of sexy fun, lots of really interesting information that we hope to share with you guys. What we thought was really great, what we thought could do better. We're going to share all of that with you in the upcoming episode. But today's episode is a bonus episode. Originally, we shared this on Patreon exclusively for our patrons as a behind the scenes thank you for them supporting us. But the feedback that we had from multiple patrons was that they wanted us to publish the behind the scenes interview on our podcast.
And so that's what today is. I was interviewed by a journalist in the United Kingdom following a TikTok that went viral. And at the time I had no idea whether or not the interview would even translate into an article. I had no idea whether or not they would publish anything about it and certainly what they would publish. I did record it with their permission and that's what I'm sharing today, this behind the scenes phone conversation with this journalist. And it did actually get published. So this article has actually been in over 30 online publications to date.
Most notably is the New York Post. It was recently out there. And so I'm going to share that in the show notes. I'm only going to share the New York Post one because there's no point sharing the one from Jamaica or the one in Wales or anything like that. I'm just going to share the New York Post. So have a listen to this audio that I'm going to share here and then go maybe read the article, like I said, the links in the show notes. And I want to know whether or not you thought that the conversation with the journalist translated well in the article.
But secondly, I want to know whether or not you thought we represented the lifestyle well or whether we've missed some bits and pieces or perhaps misrepresented the lifestyle. Feel free to email us, email at wanderlustswingers.com. Would love to hear from you guys.
Interestingly enough, after this article was actually published in these 30 online publications, I've actually had a further three journalists reach out to us wanting interviews and wanting to kind of do some work with us and I'm hoping one of them might actually be be women's health cross your fingers for us because i would absolutely love to talk about female empowerment in the women's health magazine i don't know it would be awesome like that would be super highlight massive highlight for me so have a listen it is recorded on my phone so the audio is not crystal clear amazing like studio quality don't get me wrong it's still absolutely perfectlyable.
It's just not going to be the usual level of quality that you might get from a recording directly in a microphone. But otherwise, I'm going to leave you with the interview. Like I said, coming up, we have a week at Hedonism to talk about. We have a single male night at Oasis Aquiland in Toronto to talk about. We have Club L to talk about with the Honeyspoons. That's all coming up on our next few episodes.
But in episodes but in the meantime gonna leave you with this if you guys did want to support us and get behind the scenes with everything else please head over to patreon.com forward slash swinging down under again if you check the show notes that link is in there and that is five dollars a month to support us as well as get all the behind scenes so we hope that you guys enjoy this let me know drop me an email hope you guys are having a fantastic month and we're back very very soon with all of the tribal antics okay bye guys hello kate speaking hi okay it's lydia sorry about that can you hear me better now yeah the's heaps better honestly everyone normally work most days people work from home so i think today everyone's excited to see each other how are you doing yeah not too bad not too bad thanks just to let you know i am recording the call as well i just wanted to put that out there before we start chatting just so you know oh yeah so that's that's fine of course um so yeah i'll tell you a little bit about myself so i work for swns and we're a uk-based press agency and we write stories and what we do is like publish them um in all the sort of major news outlets so the nationals here in the uk the independent mail online and then we have sort of more local smaller clients too so yeah we'd be hoping to write something up and then hopefully get your story out there in um we can't like say for sure who would pick it up but it could basically be go anywhere if that's all okay with you yep we've actually been in a few articles in the past um it's been a while since we've actually been in an article but yeah we're quite we're quite used to being interviewed on either radio stations or in in news articles it's not uncommon particularly with the rise of ethical non-monogamy showing up in mainstream media um as you can imagine the more it shows up in mainstream media the more people are interested in it um you know even in the last in the last nine months you can probably We see more than 10 articles in Cosmopol the more people are interested in it.
You know, even in the last nine months, you can probably see more than 10 articles in Cosmopolitan, for example, just talking about ethical non-monogamy. So it's definitely a hot topic at the moment. Definitely. So, yeah, that's why I wanted to speak to you today. If you could, I don't know, take me back. So what is your partner's name? I know you're Kate. Yes. You're Kate and what's your partner's name? Daryl. Daryl. How do I spell Daryl? D-A-R-R-E-R-L. Yeah, if you just can take me back to where it all began when you first met, really. Okay, yeah.
So, we met about 14 years ago, roughly 14, 15 years ago. And we started dating, dating monogamously and then became a monogamous couple, you know, dating a little bit and then became an actual couple, you know, moving into that relationship status, I guess. And then we were living together in a monogamous relationship, had moved states. We're actually both from Australia. And about five years into our relationship, we decided to talk about fantasies and what our life would look like. Did you say this was five months in? Five years in, okay. Yeah.
So it's quite common for us to talk about all facets of our life, you know, what we would like to do for work, where we would want to live, what our life looks like basically.
And one day that led us to talking about sexual fantasies and we started researching different kinds of sexual fantasies and then we decided to enter the ethically non-monogamous or consensually non-monogamous lifestyle and researching a little bit more about that and visiting a few clubs in Sydney Australia and then since then we have relocated countries a number of times we're currently based in the Netherlands and we have been to clubs around the world swingers resorts around the world we host our own hotel takeovers around the world with some two to three hundred people at them over multiple like four days and and we started our podcast seven years ago really fairly early on into our journey And the reason we initially started it was because there wasn't a lot of international voices.
There were a few American podcasts about the swinging lifestyle, but very few that looked at either the Australian approach or other cultures outside of America. And so we started that some seven years ago. We actually just had our seven-year podcast anniversary in July. Oh, congrats. Yeah, and then since then it's just been, I guess, looking at more of a global look as we move around the world. We've lived in Asia. We lived in Croatia. We're now in the Netherlands and we travel a lot. So that's why we changed our name.
Originally we were called Swinging Down Under, just, you know, the Aussie kind touch on it, and then we changed it to the Wanderlust Swingers because we do travel so much and we do try to bring some of that cultural differences into our podcast. So that's really in a nutshell, in a very, very quick nutshell, where we are today as a couple. So we've been together for over 13 years or just about that, and seven of those have been spent non-monogamous and five, seven and a half actually, and then five and a half have been spent as a monogamous couple.
And when did you sort of first decide, like, monogamy just isn't for us anymore? There was another option.
I was doing those fantasy discussions, so we started talking about fantasies and we looked into, know if you go online right now and you google like the top 10 fantasies you'll find things things like threesomes and stuff like that popping up in in those fantasies and each of them we went down we went down and we just had a look and we said you know is this for is this interesting to us is it not interesting to us and yeah we just started to explore that and from there we went to a club to see what does this even look like you know how how does this even work and it is all about really educating yourselves and communicating you know what what your desires are or are not because there is a lot of misinformation out there about what swinging is and uh and what and whatamy is and how – and there is a really large umbrella too.
There's not – if you look at the different ways people approach non-monogamy, it's very different amongst one person to the next. And so we started exploring, well, what does this actually look like for us? And then started going on dates with other couples and that's kind of where we kind of started. And then we wasn't really a switch where we said, oh, we're now all of a sudden. Like it's not like a switch, a light switch where you go, here I am walking over the line and now all of a sudden I hate monogamy and I'm non-monogamous. That's not at all what we did.
It's also not something that I profess. I don't think that non-monogamy is for everybody. And similarly, I don't don't think monogamy is for everybody so we didn't kind of make the switch of like okay we're now non-monogamous and and stuff non stuff monogamy you know that's just kind of the the difference in our relationship now and and whether it will remain that way forever who knows you know we don't mark anything off the list so we certainly try not to uh put in a box too much.
And how would you define I know you've used the term ethical non-monogamy how would you define that and how would you define your personal style of non-monogamy?
Yeah so if you look under non-monogamy as the umbrella term a lot of stuff falls under this so you've got things like polyamory you've got things like cuckold relationships hot wife relationships there's a whole host of things that fall under the broad term non-monogamy the reason I use the term ethical non-monogamy is because of the fact society generally is quite happy to accept the cheating husband or the cheating wife or the cheating person and that is non-monogamy but it's unethical non-monogamy you'll often find that if you go online and someone's cheated it's like oh it's okay they they slipped up a little bit but they love you it's fine but then if you start talking about things like ethical non-monogamy where we've had a very open adult conversation all of a sudden people get very very upset about that you're doing that so that's why we use that term basically it means to us that we've had a discussion together on what our sexual preferences look like what our fantasies look like what our approach to the lifestyle looks like and that's kind of how we've molded that and it is adapting and it is changing you know just because you know today you might be interested in couples only doesn't mean that later down the track you might be interested in playing with a single male, a single female.
And so the way we approach it is that we communicate always, we talk to each other about what we're interested in and we go through this journey together as a couple unit. So we talk about what we would like to do together. And so the way we identify really is ethical non-monogamy, but we are also a hot wife couple. So we dabble into the hot wife lifestyle as well. Can you just quickly explain to me what hot wife couple means? Yeah, it is a really difficult term. Again, it's very fluid.
You know, you ask one person to the next what that means to them and they're probably going to have a different answer. I just want to precursor that.
A lot of people get hot wifing and cock holding um mixed up together too so i'll give you my my thoughts on the matter basically the way that we approach it is that we play with single men and my husband has a lot of compersion for me receiving pleasure and interest from other guys and oftentimes we will not oftentimes sometimes we play with single men and generally my husband is involved in that so that can be a threesome and um or it'll just be say us us sometimes I play solo but that is very very rare what was that so sometimes you sometimes I play solo so I might go on a date with a single guy on my own, but that is very rare.
It's only three times in seven years. So I wouldn't call that a common occurrence. And when you first started swinging, tell me about your first ever experience and what was it like? Yep.
So, I mean, that's going back some seven years, but our first experience was swingers club in sydney and we walked through the doors of the swingers club and signed in and put our stuff in a locker and went upstairs and basically a swingers club on the inside looks like a bar like any other bar and and it just so happens that it might have playrooms either downstairs upstairs or out the back sort of thing And so we went in and we got a drink and we started talking to the other people that were there and it was a couple's only night. So no singles were permitted. We played some pool.
We spoke to people. We found out about their journeys, asked them questions because we're brand new, we didn't know anything. And then, yeah, just danced and see how we felt. We took a walk around the playrooms and had the opportunity to play a voyeur, so have a look. What are people doing? Again, is this exciting to us? Is this nerve-wracking? Is it terrifying? And that good thing about the clubs is that you're not forced, obviously, to do anything with anybody.
So it is not a place where you have to walk in and immediately have sex with some random person that you don't want to clubs are very very safe consensual environments and so we we walked and we talked and we drank and we danced and we played pool and and just decided to see how it how it felt and in the end we did get in the hot tub with another few couples and just spoke to them and and basically left So that was our first experience in the swinging lifestyle, which involved no sex, which a lot of people have a misconception about. And then, you know, and then we were going to the club.
There was two clubs in Sydney at the time. We went to the other club.
We found that the other club was our preference over the two in terms of the types of people there and their approach in their age bracket at the time i was 29 so their approach was really important to us as well to see if they were similar to us and um and that kind of became our home club and and then we we met a few more people there they asked us what our dating handle was to which we replied what the fuck is a dating handle and then found out there's whole websites dedicated to finding other people that are in alternative relationships.
And so then we set up a dating profile and started dating. Oh, really? Do you have a name of one of those? Is it like a Tinder or most of the swingers? Absolutely. So the one in the UK, the most popular one in the UK is called Fab Swingers, F-A-B Swingers, fabswingers.com.
Fab Swingers swingers yeah it's i mean that that one is a um a very uk driven site because again all the different sites around the world are different depending depending on the country depending on the state so for example in in the united states of america you've got kind of five more dominant sites in australia we've got really one dominant dominant site in europe here we've got a very common site called sdc.com. It really does depend where you are, but because you're from the UK, I'll give you the fabslingers.com. Okay. Thank you. And that first experience, like how did you feel?
Were you kind of scared about? Oh, yeah, terrified. Was it daunting? Yeah, terrified because, again, the way that sometimes this sort of thing is portrayed in media is it doesn't have the best light on it. You know, you see a lot of drama, you know, you see a lot of the old, you know, keys in a bowl, ha-ha thing, you know. So back then, seven years ago even, there was just a really negative stigma and representation on what this looked like in reality, you know.
And so knocking on that door the first time and signing in, absolutely I was terrified because I thought some, you know, hairy-chested gold necklace-wearing dude was going to come out of, like, the area with his shirt unbuttoned and, you know, with a big beer belly and expect me to fuck him. So, and it's not the case at all.
You know, we've met met people from all walks of life everybody from a bricklayer or receptionist right through to politicians movie stars etc so it really does have everybody in it in the lifestyle there is the lifestyle itself or alternative relationships it's just a subset of society and how many how often do you like swing with your husband it depends it depends on what we're doing where we're traveling to if we're working working and traveling so it it really is up and down you know sometimes it might be uh once or twice a month sometimes it's no times a month it is dependent on what we're doing where we're traveling to and and what we're interested in at the time so you know there were periods there kind of when we're a little bit maybe newer in the first maybe in the between the first and second year or second or third year where we probably swung significantly more um just because it's very exciting to try something new and meet everybody and everything else but it is it is dependent you know we just got back from a trip in a trip We were hosting 100 swingers there in London City at an event.
And this Friday we're off to Hedonism in Jamaica where there's going to be some 400, 500 swingers are going to be at this resort in Jamaica this weekend that we're going to.
So, you know, we'll see if there's anybody there we like and are interested in and then we may play we're going to be there for seven days so we'll see what happens and um how many countries have you swung in around the world you have an estimate i i did write an article about that um a couple of years ago and i think at the time it was 20 early 20s like 22 23 countries um it's probably increased since then just because we do travel so much so uh i'm gonna say over 20 but i don't honestly i don't know the actual number i would have to sit down and physically work it out okay and what is the difference like have you noticed sort of um big differences between the mentalities of swingers where you it depends on what country you swing in oh 100 so if you look at um let's take asia so if you look at asia for example okay in singapore there is a high population of expats that live there and so then you've got really um you've got generally a multi multicultural relationship so there may be one person who's from asia maybe one person who's western and so you you carry their very different opinions or different approaches to the lifestyle.
There's also not a lot of information in Asia about the lifestyle. And so let's now go from Singapore to Malaysia or Thailand where swinging is 100% illegal and will get you put in jail. A lot of people... Wow, and you actually swung there? We have swung there, but we swing, there's no club. Oh, my God, was that scary? No, because, again, we're not out, you know, it's the clubs and it's the big parties that if you look online or you Google this sort of stuff and there is actually, well, there used to be a club in Thailand that would get constantly raided by the police.
And so you'll see often, again, in the news articles, there'll be like massive orgy broken up and stuff like that. So in those countries, it is very underground. There's no clubs. There's no big parties. There's certainly no hotel takeovers like what we arrange. It's just mainly couples meeting other couples. And then if you go to other countries around like, say, Japan, they actually do have – they are clubs where they're called happening bars. And with those ones, you can't get in unless you speak fluent Japanese.
So, you know, aside from those main differences, there is a very different cultural approach down there as well. And it comes from being, I guess, told that, you know, sex is for making babies for for procreation only, and sex is not a pleasurable thing. So in Singapore, for example, they're one of the highest countries in the world with vaginismus, and that's purely because the women are told from a very young age that their vulva is disgusting and don't touch it, you know, et cetera.
So there's a lot of sexual shame that comes with those countries, and then if you flip it on its head and you're here in the Netherlands, people don't bat an eyelid. You can be in the LGBTQIA+, you can identify that way, I'll see you next time.
sexual shame that comes with those countries and then if you flip it on its head and you're here in the netherlands people don't bat an eyelid you can be in the lgbtqia plus um you can identify that way people don't bat an eyelid you can identify as in the lifestyle people don't bat an eyelid because it is very open here in terms of their sexuality even their body nudity here is not really a big a big deal you know it's quite often we'll be walking the canals in the sunshine and people will have their tops off and no one's staring because it's just very normal.
You go to the south of France, you've got Carpe d'Arc down there that has 40,000 people that go there every year and that live there throughout the summer period. And again, it's just part of life down there.
There is no difference between somebody who chooses to be monogamous, someone who's a nudist, someone who's in a polyamorous relationship someone who's in a swinger everybody just kind of goes okay that's your bag it's not mine no harm no foul so there's not yeah so there's not a lot of um stigma uh and taboo down there and then you go to somewhere like the united states of america where swingers clubs are i would say prevalent in terms of there's there's quite a few you know they're pretty well everywhere and in the major cities at least and uh it is becoming more and more accepted but what i will say with uh particularly the religious side of the united states that there still is there still is a lot of stigma there um and i'd say the same thing about the united kingdom you know whilst you guys have i think about 30 or 40 clubs in in england um just on its own you know you are bought up through a very religious background and so there is a little bit of that i guess that stigma or that shame that kind of can come along with that we're quite as a society we're quite prudish as well yeah you say that but again you've got some 30 some or 20 or 30 clubs uh just in england and you've got uh you know hundreds of thousands of people on the on the swing of sites so um not everybody there's a prude that's for sure it's just kind of more secret isn't it i guess it's not would you say there's very much still a stigma about swinging and being open to explore, like, sexual fantasies here in the UK?
So, again, kind of going back to that cheating side of things, you know, I think it's almost accepted that – and we'll go with younger people, let's call them in their 20s, 20s to 30s. It's generally accepted that you'll get on a timber and go have sex with somebody on a Saturday night and people don't even bat an eyelid. They're just like, oh, that's because you're in your 20s and you're just floozing around. The interesting thing about that is people on those apps generally tend to have sex more often than somebody in the swinging lifestyle.
But it is just that we hold this, I guess, one set of rules for somebody over there and then a whole other set of rules for somebody over here. So it is, I guess, starting to become less stigmatized. But what I will say, the reason that people aren't actively saying that they're open or in these kinds of relationships are because of the way that society will respond to you.
And also because of things like morality clauses in contracts you know depending on the country that you live in this is not a protected state so you being a you know quote-unquote swinger could get you fired so a lot of people are afraid to come out and advise that this is what they are you know if you saw my TikTok you TikTok, you would have seen the horrible comments about my physical appearance and just the way I choose to live my lifestyle. And that's another reason people don't decide to come out.
You know, there is still a lot of people out there who don't appreciate that you're sharing this alternative lifestyle or alternative relationship. And along with that can come issues with things like your employment contract. And is that something like people have spoken to you about they've actually risked losing their jobs because of their because they're in alternative sort of relationships or swingers?
Yeah we've had we've had school teachers in the United States lose their jobs um I know three actually now that have lost their jobs because they have been doxxed or outed as being in a swinging lifestyle. We've had people who are maybe going through a divorce and they've split with their partner sort of two years ago and they've found a new partner and then the ex has found out they're in a swinging lifestyle and then used it against them to try and get the children. Wow.
You know, it is an absolute, it is still there as a very risky thing for people to be open about this, which is why one of the most common questions we receive throughout the podcast is what do I do if I get outed or what do I do if I go to a club and I see somebody there I know. You know, that is a very common question for us because people do live in fear that this will impact the other areas of their life. And what is your answer to that question? So generally if you're going to see somebody, let's take the easy one out, which is you're going to see somebody at a club.
If you're seeing somebody at a club, you're both there. So there's kind of mutual destruction there, isn't there? So I think that's I think that's less of a concern. I mean, it is a bit awkward. Don't get me wrong. Um, that's going to be awkward for you guys come around the water cooler on Monday morning, but, um, but for me, you're both there. So, you know, there's less chance that that person's going to do anything. Now, if you take instead, maybe you're on social media, maybe you're on a dating app, right. And somebody sees you on a dating app.
So I always tell people, if you are genuinely worried about that sort of thing, then there are ways to protect yourself. So using a separate email address is definitely the first one. Create your own Gmail account specifically for the Swinging Lifestyle. Never use your same, you know, your same email account because regardless of what Facebook and Instagram, et cetera, says about comparing accounts, they do and they will recommend your lifestyle account to other people in your address book and that can be friends and family.
And from there as well as if you're setting up your dating profile, like don't share the same photo that you've got on your Facebook profile, for example. Like don't share common things that are in your household. You know, if you've got a very obvious painting in the background, probably don't put that in your dating profile because people can put two and two together. If you have massive bespoke tattoos, don't put them in the photos on your profile because again, they are easily identifiable. So those are some of the ways that you can try to protect yourself online.
And I say to people if you are really really worried about it just don't go on social media at all have your dating profile set up and have go on sites where it does have a paywall so people can't see your account unless they're paying for it okay no that all sounds like really good advice and going back to your like personal swinging journey you said before like you and your husband speak through about absolutely everything so is this like is this something you recommend to all swinging couples that they speak that they speak together on it or if they like so say I don't know you said you've only played three times with other men without your husband there but but would you always tell your husband, hey, like I've met this guy, like we want to go on a date, like is this okay with you?
Is that something you do every time? Oh yeah. So when I actually go on a single guy date on my own, it's my husband who sets them up. It's him that's actually, yeah. So we do choose to do this together, but it's something that i say i don't wouldn't recommend it that way because i think again everybody is is very different some people yeah really get off on the mystery of it we have friends where she will go out and play without her husband's knowledge because that's that's their kink they really like that they're i mean they discussed it, obviously.
He knows because he's said this is really exciting to me, but she'll go off and play and he has no idea if she has or has not. And so that might be how they approach it, whereas another couple, they might approach it that she goes off and plays and she comes back and tells her husband everything, you know, and then he might be interested in that or my husband could be there. You know, so it is what I would say is communicate what is interesting or what your desires are. That's the easiest way to get to the bottom of this. So I wouldn't recommend you do it the way we do it.
What I do suggest is that you talk about what you want and then collectively as a couple unit decide what that then looks like and whether or not you're both comfortable with how that looks. And for you and you and your husband what is your kind of like favorite kind of swing and like what are your kinks?
So we really used to like so when we when we had some stability in where we lived we love what's called a puppy pile and what that basically means is that a puppy pile yeah so you've got a group of people that they may have met each other before they may have been out on dates or maybe they know it you know they're okay they're comfortable with each other they probably are very similar they probably find each other attractive and it's just a very fluid environment so you know there could be said let's argue this it's three women three men and I'm actually I'm actually bisexual and I like everybody in that in that group so then we would you know I might might be kissing her and then I might go play with him or I might play with a couple together in that environment where it's it's very um just easy and open and enjoyable you know um those are fantastic they're very difficult to find because you have to get a group of people that like each other that find each other attractive you know feel the same way etc but that's probably the the best option we also just like playing with with or meeting with couples that's really fun as as well we've met quite a few nice couples here in the Netherlands recently that are very similar to us love to travel love to experience new things and so that's just great you know we go out for drinks at a bar and we can sit down for three hours talking about our various travel you know randomness where you accidentally bribe a bribe a mexican police officer to get down a mountain like those kinds of random things um and then you know we may or may not go back home and play it does depend just like a date really it is a date yeah it is absolutely a date um and what what are your favorite things about your lifestyle and swinging um meeting new people and i think being more open to having conversations with both your partner and other people I think often you know we wear a lot of masks in in life you know we wear a mask to work we wear a mask at you know parties with other people and and we don't tend to really often let ourselves come through it's it's pretty rare that you'll find somebody quickly meet them and then have some actual meaningful conversations that are above the surface level crap of what do you do for life Thank you.
often let ourselves come through it's it's pretty rare that you'll find somebody quickly meet them and then have some actual meaningful conversations that are above the surface level crap of what do you do for life and where do you live and how do you earn money and so one of my favorite things is especially with this trip coming up it's a nude resort so for me it's being in the pool having a cocktail and talking to people from all walks of life who just happen to be nude and just deciding that hey what you know having these deeper meaningful conversations about life the universe and everything rather than that surface stuff i guess that's one of my favorite favorite parts about swinging lifestyle is that everybody is quite disarmed because we're all there because just trying to be who we truly are and have a have a good time and meet some interesting people along the way no that's really that's such an interesting point actually i do Thank you.
because we're all there just trying to be who we truly are and have a good time and meet some interesting people along the way. That's such an interesting point, actually. I do think because you're naked, you're instantly more sort of, you're truer, more vulnerable self. Well, if you think about it this way, especially coming from a female's perspective, because we are judgmental and that's the way we're brought up, it's absolutely ridiculous. We size each other up. You think about the last time you went to a party.
You're looking across, you're looking at multiple women and you're immediately sizing them up. You're sizing up their hair, their jewellery, their watch, their bag, their clothing, their heels, makeup, all of that. You are immediately sizing these women up to decide whether or not, where they sit in the hierarchy compared to you. And, you know, as a result of that, people become quite competitive, et cetera, and quite mean.
And in the hierarchy compared to you and you know as a result of that people become quite competitive etc and quite mean in the in the swinging lifestyle I have found that people are uplifting women support each other they support each other's body shape you know we support each other's adventures we are in the bathrooms at swingers clubs just talking to each other and know, being, being honest and being deep and not seeing competitive nature and not judging somebody. So that is a really beautiful thing.
You know, I think that you have the ability to make genuine friendships, but also drop some of that crap that I guess society pushes on you. Uh, and then finally, I do want to say that being in the lifestyle too, um too can open up some of your sexuality. So we have a lot of people who identify in the LGBT space that may have chosen the swinging lifestyle because they are wanting to explore that side of themselves. It doesn't mean they don't love their partner.
It certainly doesn't mean maybe that they want to, or they could have a long-term relationship with a same-sex person maybe if they choose to be a thruple or a poly polyamorous couple but they can explore that without needing to say okay i now have to be single you know they can still be in a very loving committed relationship and explore maybe that bisexual side um without feeling ashamed and was that your experience that actually came much later um i didn't actually realize i was bisexual proper until a few years into our journey um so uh and and then i went oh wow whereas some people do actually start this journey because of the fact that they they have those bisexual tendencies and then they lovingly share this with their partner and their partner is wanting to support them in exploring that so some people start out immediately going I'm bisexual or I'm this way and I definitely want to experience it some people start out saying oh my god I really want a threesome or an orgy some people just start out as a couple going okay maybe we're empty nesters now like what can we you know what's what's what else is available in life for us so there's so many ways that people approach it and and it's always fun understanding how people came to be at that resort or at that club or at that party you know it's always really intriguing how that happens no it sounds really liberating and also your resort so you're going to Jamaica is it next week yeah this Friday um hopefully with a bit hopefully, with a bit of luck.
Yeah, this Friday. With a bit of luck, we'll fly out of Amsterdam Airport with no dramas. Yeah, fingers crossed. Tell me how a resort goes because that sounds like so much fun. Yeah, resorts are – so there's major resorts in Mexico and there's a major resort in Jamaica. And then down here in Europe, we have a place called Cappe d'Arg which is in the south of France. That's actually a city. It's a location. And within Carpe d'Arg there are swingers groups that take over hotels there. So those are kind of the big ones around the world.
And what it looks like, so it's an all-inclusive resort and every night time they have things like performers come on. During the day they'll have pool parties, that sort of thing. So if you imagine a standard all-inclusive resort, that's what it looks like except the only difference is that Thank you.
come on during the day they'll have pool parties that sort of thing so if you imagine a standard all-inclusive resort yeah that's what it looks like except the only difference is that uh you've got a lot of naked people um so there's a lot of naked people in the pool and um of a night time people uh there's playrooms on site as well so there's actual dedicated playroom spaces where you can go watch and be watched if you choose to and generally you know people are interested in connecting with you so at a normal resort where it's all inclusive and maybe you're there with your partner or your girlfriends you're probably just going to stick to being with your partner or girlfriends whereas at one of these resorts everybody's talking to each other because they're legitimately interested in your life story so and partying and dancing and stuff like that so the the resort itself really only serves as a place for people like-minded people to meet um and of course they foster that kind of a environment with the theme nights and the dances and stuff like that but ultimately it's just so you can be in that really open environment and meet other people and a lot of them in such a small space you know like if you you're meeting hundreds of people in a couple of days kind of thing.
How many people go? Did you say it was like 500? It depends on the size of the resort so I do hotel takeovers in the United States for example. We will buy a hotel for three nights four days. One of the hotels that I recently took over was 168 rooms and so that'll'll be, you know, 320-odd people. One next year is 101 rooms, so it'll be 202, 220-odd people that'll come to those hotel takeovers. The resort in Jamaica is bigger. I think it's over 200 rooms off the top of my head. I actually don't know. It's my first time going to the one in Jamaica. I've been to the one in Mexico three times.
Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, and so you can really have anywhere from, I would say, from 140 to, depending on the size of the place, 300, 400 people. In Carpe d'Hug, there's thousands and thousands of people there at the same time. So it does depend. And is there sort of a level of exclusivity in getting into these, like, resorts? Do you have to know the right person?
Or is it kind of like travel companies for swingers there are travel companies out there for swingers we book direct um so you could go on booking.com right now and find the links to the the resort in jamaica it's not a hidden thing really yeah yeah because when you think about it's the same thing for the hotel takeovers when you think about it they have to they have to adhere by the law that's the first thing um a lot of them are they're registered businesses they have accountants they have bookkeepers they have uh legal teams on standby you know so they have to basically be a legitimate business like any other hotel so that's that's why they're out there so there are however some some events around the world um and clubs around the world that are membership only.
So there's one very popular one in New York City that everyone always ends up in the bloody news. I don't know why. And to get to that one, I think it's like $30,000 or $40,000. Oh, my God. You know, so there are a few around the world that are quite membership driven, but those are more events.
Whereas the resort, you can go online and book it do you ever worry like as a female that there's going to be someone that could turn up that has got like bad intentions i actually kind of safeguard so so let me answer that question in a simple way and then i'll go into the deeper the deeper side of it i'm actually i feel much much safer being nude at a swingers resort than I do in a nightclub the amount of times that I have been groped in a nightclub my ass has been touched I actually had somebody put their finger up my skirt and into my vulva in a nightclub walking around and the reason yeah the reason that happens is because we just kind of allow it to occur as society it's like oh boys will be boys well no consent really really matters and so in the lifestyle we take consent very very seriously and it's also self it's a it's self-policed in a way but we also have security on site so argument's sake if i was at a club and a guy did something untoward you can immediately bet that five or ten other men in the local vicinity would remove that guy because no one's here for that we are very consent driven but on a at a club at a club or at a resort they have security for that as well if i ever felt very if i ever felt unsafe i would immediately go the security and have that person dealt with um but what i will say is i've never had an incident personally um at an event or a club, but have I had them at normal vanilla nightclubs?
Absolutely, 100%. No, I think every woman has definitely had that experience for sure. Unfortunately. In a nightclub. It's really interesting. But also like while I was thinking if someone who did have bad intentions could turn up and like, I don't know, like turn up at this hotel in Jamaica, is there a way of sort of being like, oh, God, this guy, he's not cool. Like he's not actually part of this lifestyle. He just wants to like see naked women. Yeah. So that is that a pretension? It could be. I mean, so let's take the resorts in Mexico.
Single men actually aren't permitted on site in Mexico. They're not allowed. Okay, cool. The one in Jamaica is actually, it does allow single men, which is different for me. I've never been on a resort that allows single men. Cap Dog, also there's a lot of single men around. So what I would say is that if a guy did turn up and say he was trying to, because having cameras on site is also against rules. If you're found with a camera on site, you're immediately removed from property.
So what I would say is that say a guy was turning up and he was trying to film people naked or he was like standing in the bushes like jerking off or something really, you know, crazy like that. You would just immediately report him and he'd be removed. So I, you know, I wouldn't have a problem reporting somebody like that and I know everybody else else feels the same way. And with the way that these places operate, they can't afford to have that kind of thing.
Because you can imagine, say I went there, I have a podcast, I've got a blog, I've got a YouTube channel, I go there, something happens, right? I'm going to talk to people about that. They can't afford to have that happen.
So it's better that some something like that did happen, it gets reported, the person and then I come on my podcast and I'm like hey this shitty thing happened but you know the staff and the management and the security were onto it aren't they great versus yeah I come on and I say this happened and nobody gave us nobody gave a shit like that their reputation and the safety of their guests is paramount they can't have that sort of of thing happening, so they're very quick to jump on it. So that makes so much sense, actually. And Kate, can I double-check what your surname is?
Yeah, we actually don't give that out online because being doxed is a real thing in this lifestyle. So generally we use the last name. Kate and Daryl. Kate and Daryl or you can put Kate Wanderloss, Swingers, whatever you like. Wanderloss, okay. Am I okay to take your age and Daryl's age too? Yeah, I'm 37. Daryl's 47. And is there anything else you want to mention that you want me to know about the lifestyle, about yourself, about anything we've spoken about really?
I will finish it with, because we've spoken about a lot of the positive sides of the lifestyle here on this episode or on this interview. I will say it's not all rainbows and lollipops. There are definitely hard times that can happen in terms of communication failures, et cetera. I don't want to leave people with an idea that you're going to come into the lifestyle and everything's going to be fantastic. Sometimes there are really hard conversations. Sometimes that people do things that they feel like they shouldn't do afterwards.
Sometimes people get into this and they realize it's not for them. So I just wanted to mention that, you know, it is not all rainbows and lollipops. Can it be fantastic for some people? Absolutely. Is it for everybody? Absolutely not. You know, monogamy is better options for some people. Non-monogamy is better for others. So I wouldn't say that there's a one piece puzzle fits all. What I will say is communicate with your partner and decide what's right for you and your relationship.
And have you ever had a personal experience with that, something that you thought you wanted to do and then you did it and you were like, actually no that's not for me um not sort of not for me but probably when you first start you do even when you're in the lifestyle and you first have your actual first physical experience with somebody you're still pushing back on decades of your own shame and stigma you know you grow up and you're told you get a partner and you get the opposite sex partner and you get a child and you get a dog and a house and you get a picket fence and here you are here's your lego set and that's what you do so when you first start exploring alternatives sometimes you can come up against these really inbuilt shame factors and you're like hold on a second I just did that but I've been told for 25 years of my life that I shouldn't do that.
And then you're like, oh my God, have I done something wrong? That could happen. And that did definitely happen to me the first time I was like, oh my God, I shouldn't be sleeping with another man because my husband, oh, and he's my boyfriend at the time, but this is wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong. And then you're like, actually, he's standing there and he loves it.
And we're having this experience together, but some of internal shame can can kind of come up um so i haven't experienced anything personally where i've been like i've tried it and you know i've gone definitely not going to do that again um but have i had friends do it absolutely um and what that's another thing too this doesn't inherently change you if you try something and you go i tried it i don't like it i'm not going to do it again this hasn't really inherently changed you and you can walk away at any point in time and just following on for that i forgot to mention i know you said you've received horrible hate comments on your tiktok yeah and how do you kind of overcome these do people say stuff about because of your lifestyle and how do you overcome these negative comments it really depends we if If people are the way i choose to live my life then i i i just i just don't i just leave them and the reason being again is it's not for everybody and those people may have spent 20 30 40 50 even 60 years of their life believing that this is how you live you're not going to change someone's mind in a tweet or in a tikt in 240 characters.
You're just not going to do it. So I leave those people to their own devices. I don't see it necessary to fight back because again, my choice in lifestyle is not for everybody and I don't see the point in making it for everybody. You know, I'd rather people that open their eyes and they can choose to be in the lifestyle or not, or they can choose to be kink, BDSM, whatever that looks like for them. They can choose to be in a monogamous relationship. They can choose to be bisexual. I don't mind, you know?
So for me, I'm not going to push back on how somebody else chooses and I'm not going to fight against how I choose. When it's more personal attacks, you know, I get, cause I've got quite a, a large forehead and, you know, those sorts of things. And those are the things that people comment. They love to throw the physical appearance things at you. And that's just coming from a place of hate and just nastiness. So again, I tend to leave those comments. I just don't see the value, you know, those people are lashing out. They're being hateful on the internet.
Like if I lived my life worrying about every single person that doesn't necessarily think I'm their cup of tea, then I wouldn't get out of bed every day. What I do know Thank you. They're being hateful on the internet. Like if I lived my life worrying about every single person that doesn't necessarily think I'm their cup of tea, then I wouldn't get out of bed every day. What I do know is that I'm other people's cups of tea. I'm definitely my husband's cup of tea. He thinks I'm beautiful and I'm many other people's cups of tea, you know, so you just have to water off a duck's back.
But unfortunately, it is one of the problems with putting, as we do, you know, we have our podcast on YouTube and we're out there on social media and I know that what comes with that, educating people, also comes with some of these hate comments and you just have to know that it's going to happen and not let it impact you as best you can. I mean, these hurtful physical comments, they get you to you sometimes. You know, you have your days where you're like, why are people saying that stuff about me?
But you just just gotta water off a duck's back some days oh no that's it's horrible isn't it just people on the internet can be awful but um and you and your husband what so is your full-time job now doing social media and podcasting and all the rest of it about swinking lifestyle lifestyle it's mine it's my job it's not my husband's job so I run I run our events around the world and and do this podcasting stuff I also run a few other businesses in the sex positive space and I also consult for a number of businesses in the sex positive space so I've chosen now to surround myself with companies companies and people that are body positive are sex positive are lifestyle positive that's what i've chosen to do my husband is whilst on the podcast it's not his job at all and what is his job he is in uh sales so he's a director of sales works in sales and has he sorry i know i keep asking more questions because you're interested in, has he received like hate in his sort of corporate world environment?
No, actually, he has been lucky to work for a number of very open-minded organizations and people.
My previous job to actually coming out, because we only came out publicly, we had the podcast for seven years, but we used to just not say names or uh we didn't show our faces anywhere and um three three years ago in 2019 was when I actually came out on social media and the reason I did that was because I quit my job and my job that I had had a morality clause that would have absolutely 100% gotten me fired had somebody realized what we were doing so it's back then I decided in 2019 to kind of liberate myself a little bit and decide that this is the direction I want to go and again not a lot of people have that privilege you know I'm very privileged to be able to do that not a lot of people can do that they can't come out online because of family children work etc and what was your job before I was the global director of operations for a company.
Wow. And how did you feel that day where you like came out to the world? Good. I didn't make a big huzzah about it. Actually, some people choose to kind of go, finally, after years, here I am. And my real name is Kate. And I actually just randomly put up a photo of us one day. I didn't even say like, oh, here we are with our faces. I just put up a photo.
I Daryl and our dog out for a coffee one day and that was it you know I didn't want to make it I wanted to normalize it to the fact that we don't need to do a song and dance if you're going to choose to do it it should just be very organic uh and so I yeah I just that's all I did I think it was a yeah photo of us and our adopted dog having a coffee at the local coffee shop oh no I love that well thank you so much okay i feel like you've opened up a whole new world to me it's so interesting um so yeah i would love to write up a piece about what we've just spoken about and if you would be able to send me like any photos of you and daryl that you're happy to share and like throughout your journey and the more the kind of better that just to like and really put a face to your story um what i will do is i will write something up i can't say for certain when it will be sometime this week and what i can do is i can give you a read back so we can go through it and check you're all happy and okay with everything before it goes out yeah sure what i'll also do for you um lydia as well i'm going to send you a map about the types of non-monogamy um it really helps to kind of see yeah so there's a lot of interesting there's a lot of overlapping um areas where it talks about okay what is polyamory how does that overlap with non-monogamy how might that overlap with swinging what is open relationships?
I'll send you this kind of mud map, if you will, on the different types and then you can kind of see what it's about. Yeah, no, that sounds wonderful. Thanks so much, Kate. No problem. I'll send you my email so then you can send me stuff on there. I've got it already because – Oh, yeah, of course you have. Yeah.
All right, well, have a lovely rest of your day thanks and have a great time in Jamaica I'll probably catch up with you before you go on Friday right yeah we leave on Friday afternoon get this sorted before them because obviously you're not going to want to be doing work on holiday but all right great it was great to speak with you all right take care thanks lydia bye
