Playboy Swing + SexEd with Wendy Miller

Transcript

You're listening to Swinging Down Under, a podcast about the swinging, non-monogamous lifestyle from two crazy Australians with over four years of lifestyle antics to keep you entertained, informed, angry, happy and horny. Join our international swinging adventures. G'day guys and welcome back to Swinging Down Under. Thank you so much for tuning into the next podcast. I don't know what episode number this is, but Daryl, what's the stardate number? 6.3. 6.3? Yep. So before we kind of share what we've been up to lately, let's introduce the podcast.

So today we are interviewing Wendy and Wendy is actually a really interesting individual for starters. So she's the creator of Sex Ed sex ed the musical podcast but what we do talk about in today's episode is a lot about her time seven and a half years if i'm not wrong with playboy and so executive producer and worked on the tv show playboy swing it was great yeah interesting interesting individual with some very interesting stories so hopefully you get, take something out, take something away from the conversation. And I'm really excited to see what comes next as well for Wendy.

It was, was good to see what she's got in sort of in plan or what she's thinking about doing next. And, you know, I think there was some secret squirrel stuff going on there. There's definitely some, there's some teasing, teasing out of teasing out of a potential for some lifestyle-related TV genre coming, it sounds like. I feel it's very secretive and there's a squirrel involved. Yeah. So, no, we had a great time with Wendy. We spoke about Playboy. We spoke about Sex Ed the Musical. We spoke about being sex positive. We spoke about washing dildos in your corporate sink.

And, you know, we had a really good time.

And so we do want to, again a give a thank you for wendy coming on our show we really appreciate that she spent the time to come on to the podcast it really makes us quite happy when guests actually say yes that's not a bad start but if you do want to go check out any of wendy's links please check in the show notes because i'm going to drop a whole heap of links there for you guys she's got some great content it's hella funny to be honest yeah she does funny better than we do oh she does definitely she definitely 100 does funny better than i do all right so before we get into the interview though what's new with us uh we just released a new movie review swingers react review on youtube so go and check that out that's up now bam and we've got one coming up soon for the sex monster and one coming up for the swing of things which is a movie that just took place at hedonism resort in jamaica as well so check out our youtube channel I don't know.

for the sex monster and one coming up for the swing of things which is a movie that just took place at hedonism resort in jamaica as well so check out our youtube channel it's on our website jump over there have a look let us know what you guys think and if you have any movies that you want us to review let us know yeah we've had somebody reach out to us with a movie to review and uh thankfully we actually do have this one already it was in the it was in the the lineup of of movies to review so we're looking forward we might do that one next i think how are you by I don't know.

actually do have this one already it was in the it was in the the lineup of of movies to review so we're looking forward we might do that one next i think how are you by the way what's happening i'm a little bit broken actually yeah yeah well you went out and got drunk last night yeah passed out within 3.5 seconds of arriving back home and and we went then when we went to the gym well the trainer today so you know i got bit of a spinal problem. Yeah. In that I hurt my spine during training. We are definitely back attempting to be slightly more healthy than we have been during COVID.

Pish to that shit. I say slightly because I'm still drinking like a fish. So, look, what's been happening with us? Usual. Although, we do actually have a date this weekend. We do. Everybody, all right, just calm down. Huzzah, ha-fucking-zah. The couple we're meeting are one of those freakish people that came out the other side of COVID healthier and fitter. Yeah, yeah. They sent us the photos and they're like, yeah, we spent the few months inside like really working on ourselves.

Really working out at the gym and stuff and we're like, you know, so they're looking hot as, of course, and we're not. Ta- and we're not not i'm i'm excited i'm a little bit nervous and i think one of the reasons behind that is because i'm a little bit jaded now as well because like things in the lifestyle haven't been going fantastically for us so i'm at the point now where i'm kind of excited but i don't want to get my hopes up too much and then i get really you know just negative nelly negative Nelly just thinking. Just get all bitchy about it.

Yeah, and think like, oh, they're probably just going to be shit. They're not going to be shit. They're going to be awesome. Well, that's my problem. I'm actually. We might be shit. We might be shit. Hey, if we turn up, that's possible. We may not be their cup of tea. It's absolutely the case. But otherwise, guys, I hope you enjoy the interview. Thank you again for listening to us on Swinging Down Under. And we hope that you guys have been enjoying the recent content we've been producing lately.

Feel free to drop us an email, leave us a voicemail, head over to our website, swingingdownunder.com. Especially if you want to tell Kate that it's crap, you know, that'll really get her going. Do, do it. Thanks a lot, guys. Hope you enjoy it. All right, guys, we would like to welcome a very special guest on today's podcast. So this is Emmy-winning producer and writer of over 200 episodes of television, notably part of the Playboy programming family, so the Vice President of Programming and Production for Playboy TV, and that includes Swing.

I'd like to introduce and really give a lot of thanks to Wendy Miller. Thank you so much for joining us today, Wendy. Aussie. How are you guys doing? We're doing well. Thank you. It's an interesting time to be alive at the moment, but everything's staying together in our world. Yeah, there's a famous toast, may you not live in interesting times. I think unfortunately we're in overly interesting times. It's a bit overwhelming. Yeah, and you're out there in California. So how is everything going out there? I know that you guys have been, you know, you went into lockdown.

I think you went into lockdown on your birthday, if I'm not wrong, earlier in March. And how's it been going since then? It's been crazy. And I like to think of it as I'm in a gigantic RV with my husband and daughter. I'm calling my house like an RV. And that way I'm not feeling deprived because it's a very nice place, you know, as a house, it's fine, but it's been hard. And I'm just trying to get through the day. I've done a lot of puzzles. I've actually lost a bunch of weight. A lot of people have been picking up the COVID-19. I lost a bunch of weight because I stopped going to restaurants.

You're one of those freaky people that have improved yourself during COVID. Yeah, stop it. That's it. Interview finished. I walk four miles a day. I've lost about 20 plus pounds. Wow. I've been eating healthier. But of course, this means that when everything goes back, it's all off. But for a very brief shining moment while the entire world went to crap, I came out looking good. I want that on the record. Well, good for you.

And I aside from that you're obviously producing a lot of a lot of fantastic content during this downtime so you're just nailing this whole COVID situation the rest of us around the world are just getting fat and lazy so good for you yeah it took it took a lot of pressure from Kate for me not to drink before our interview today which is you know given it's 12 past 10 here at the moment it was uh and we also had a pretty big night last night. So, you know, we're on the opposite end of the spectrum. We are coming out of lockdown a little bit here.

So things are getting back to some sort of semblance of normality, but still a little crazy. We like to keep things a little crazy. You guys are having a rough time of it? So we've been technically in lockdown, not lockdown, but we've been isolating since the 10th of January and we're in phase two at the moment. So we were six months inside of our house together, just Daryl, myself and our tiny little adoptive Jack Russell.

And, you know, I like your idea of trying to pretend that your house is an RV because there are moments there where, you know, we are grabbing our passport and heading to the lounge room and pretending we're in another country at this point. So it's been challenging. We're coming out of it now.

You know, we just went out for dinner last night masks masks are a legal requirement in in Singapore so you know that's kind of the the way the way things are going at the moment but keeping keeping our chins up and now that you know we have gained weight I've got more of those chins to keep up so there you go right so let's get it get into a little bit about your your background Wendy super interesting background I mean in all the facets that you've that you've uh everything that you've created is amazing and we are of course a non-monogamous couple so we our podcast is really centered around sex positivity and so to that end i'd like to start talking about mainstream media and sex positivity in general and you spent so many years uh in the head of programming there for playboy.

Tell us a little bit about your time there in terms of when that first kicked off and really the changes that that brought to something like that being on TV. Well, they brought me in in the beginning of 2010. They realized that they were ignoring an entire portion of viewers, which was women. They had been programming for men for many years, not that successfully. It was an expensive channel and they Thank you.

ignoring an entire portion of viewers which was women they had been programming for men for many years not that successfully you know it was a it was an expensive channel and they had some you know lots of videos of like hot girls leaning on cars and hot girls standing up in bathtubs and spunting themselves off sounds terrible well what they realized is that um at least in america women traditionally pay cable bill.

So it occurred to them that maybe if they started making shows that would be of interest to couples, which is coded language for women, that they would essentially double their viewership. And so they looked for someone who had rebranded other networks, produced a lot of content, knew what mainstream was, knew how to oversee programming, knew what women would want, and didn't have an issue with adult content. And basically, it was me and I think like an iPhone app. Like, this is not a long list of people. And so I went in there, you know, thinking I'd seen it all, knew it all, done it all.

And basically, within a half an hour i realized i'd seen nothing knew nothing and had done absolutely nothing so how did you how well did the iphone app work in supporting you to you know to bridge that gap well the iphone app turned down the job so um the money was wasn't good enough for the app no so i had a lot to learn and i basically understood after hanging out with a lot of sexually adventurous couples and interesting people, what the currency was.

And it wasn't about a bunch of Emmy awards and fancy celebrities that you can name drop, but it was about who's having the most fun, who's having the happiest marriage and who's having the most adventurous sex lives. That's what turned out to be currency there. And I learned a lot in a very short amount of time. I'll bet you did. I'll bet you did. And it's interesting that you actually say that about, you know, wanting to create content for couples.

And as you said before, more of the female audience, because, you know, in our lifestyle, we hear from, we hear from, we interview and we meet so many couples from just around the world and with various cultural upbringings and age demographic, the whole works. And the amount of people that say to us, well, you know, we started watching Playboy Swing and that's how we kind of understood a little bit more about our own journey.

And a lot of the time that is actually led by the female as well because it was a real opportunity to look at something that was taboo, you didn't really know about and and put it into what could be a reality for for a lot of people so i think it definitely brought in that demographic it was it was absolutely deliberate because there was a woman in charge of all of that programming which is me so everything is typically through the male gaze especially on this channel and i wanted to make sure that we focused on good production values and stories and diverse casting and people that you wouldn't normally associate with playboy being on camera Thank you.

channel. And I wanted to make sure that we focused on good production values and stories and diverse casting and people that you wouldn't normally associate with Playboy being on camera. And so, you know, there were things that I wouldn't tolerate, like naughty school girl outfits. Oh, preach, preach. You know, things that I just personally found offensive. And I wanted to make it more, I don't want to say mainstream, because we're still dealing with, you know, with swinging lifestyle, but to make it much more acceptable to women.

And it's so funny because still to this day, people reach out to me saying that show changed my life swing because of swing. We got in the lifestyle. Jessica O'Reilly is constantly sending me notes from people that she hears from that, you know, that show changed their life.

And I was speaking at Sexual Health Expo one year and a woman came up to me and she said that she was a Christian sex therapist and that she used my shows for her clients because even though they were explicit and sex positive and dealt with things with issues around sex, they were also mindful and not necessarily triggering or difficult for some people to handle. Yeah. One of the things we really enjoyed was the fact that you kind of included a whole range of things that do happen in the lifestyle, which is sometimes the outburst and sometimes the couple saying, this is not for us.

And other times a couple saying, this is the most exciting thing we've ever been around and we plan to keep this in our life for the rest of it so it's it was an interesting discussion topic for us all the way through one of the things that i do have to tell you though is that playboy swing or playboy channel in general wasn't available in australia when we first when we first started watching um this this particular show and uh in because of that, it took us quite a bit of hunting to actually find a way that we could get to the product to actually have it available.

So it was an interesting journey just in that as well, trying to... And we were always like a season or two behind, if I'm not wrong.

Everybody was talking about it, and we're like, well, we can't get that yet it was always exciting for us just to just in the hunt as well to try and see if we could find a new way to get hold of the uh the the actual content i'm glad you got it you know i i would get i would get emails from people saying can you have your actors do this or next time or it's so fake da da da da you know a lot of people just would not accept that these were real couples who were really putting their relationships on the line and dipping their toe in the swinging pool. People didn't believe it.

They thought it was staged and it was 100% unjiggered. Literally, people would get there. I'd go into the back, into the control room and would never talk to any of the talent because I just wanted to be as natural and real as possible. And we used to say, if it went great, it was great. And if it went horrible, it was great. Yeah. Because those are very real reactions to things, you know, and like Daryl just pointed out, sometimes you would have people saying, hey, we had a great time this weekend. Are we going to stay in the lifestyle? Probably not. You know, we had our fun.

We've tried it out. And that is exactly how people approach the lifestyle. You know, today, somebody might get a bit of fun and go you know what maybe long term this isn't for us we've had a bit of fun we're gonna we're gonna move on absolutely and we know couples that only for example on new year's eve is the only time they yeah that they actually get out holidays like hedonism that might be the only time that they they play so let's talk about the fact that you know you were such a sex positive female in in very corporate world. And I know I'm on Medium right now.

I can see all of your amazing blogs. And I do really encourage all of our listeners to go in the show notes today because there's some funny stuff. Most notably, I'm sitting here looking at a giant hand dildo that's sitting on a corporate sink here. I believe you quoted that as the one time you almost got fired. Tell us about being a female in a corporate world and some of the stuff that you personally dealt with. Well, it was a corporate world, but it was still a company that was founded on sex positivity and being open about sex. But I was the only female executive there.

And it was troubling at times because I definitely felt very much alone and i was in charge of all programming and so that was a lot of responsibility and the photo to which you were referring one of the producers of the show was it was season three i think and the the we you know the producers used to go out and buy a lot of sex toys and just sort of have them there for the red room or whatever and for some reason they bought this gigantic this life-size latex fist and that was just not that was not going to work for me and so I had my assistant pick it up off the set and bring it back and he was he was a recovering attorney so that was really funny that he had to do that um but you know uh I was washing it off because it got kind of tacky and so I went over to the executive kitchenette and I was washing it in the sink.

And the head of HR walked past me and she just cut me the dirtiest look. And she's like, what are you doing? And I said to her, of all the things I've done or said in this place, and I'm finally going to get nicked for washing a latex fist in the sink?

Like, seriously, that's what's what's gonna do me in and she just kind of rolled her eyes and walked away a fun fact a few months earlier she came up to me and said she was having a stressful day and so I gave her an Hitachi magic wand and some lube and she was very grateful so you just don't know who your friends are I'll have to say about that but yeah it was a corporate it was a corporate world world and it was the most protected place I've ever worked in terms of, you know, I worked at major corporations where people said a lot of shitty things to me, but at Playboy, you just couldn't.

And probably because of the sexually charged nature of the content, I would be looking at casting tapes and I might say something like, you know, we can't use this woman. Her implants's just not going to look good on camera that's totally appropriate you just can't turn to the person next to you and say unlike your implants you know so it's like it was by far the most the safest place i think i've actually worked now that i think about it other places said all sorts of hateful shit from major tv networks to companies that are supposed to be run and owned by women.

And I heard all sorts of offensive stuff, but at Playboy, not so much. Do you think that working at Playboy may attract people who are a little bit more open with their sexuality as well, just because of the nature of the product that they're dealing with? I mean, I would think so. You know, at the time I was there, there were also, you know, lots of lawyers and accountants and people who basically could be working anywhere. It just so happened to be working at Playboy Enterprises. Obviously, if you're working at a place where sex is the product, you have to be open-minded about it.

If you have some real issues or some real trauma, it's probably not the best place for you. There were people there. Everybody knew what they were getting into. You know, on my first day there, the head of HR called me in and she said, just so you know, you can't have any focus groups in a hot tub. I'm like, what? It's not tax deductible. Someone tried that and got fired. I said, why would I have a focus group in a hot tub? And she said, you also can't touch people. And I said, well, I'm not going to touch people.

And apparently someone on their first day thought it was, he was okay to touch someone and he was fired on his first day. I mean, they were serious as a heart attack there. So it's a corporate place and there was a lot of corporate protocol, but you also had to behave like an adult and even the slightest, slightest inclination of skeeviness and you were gone. Yeah. I think that's really important, right? I don't know. but you also had to behave like an adult and even the slightest, slightest inclination of skeeviness and you were gone. Yeah, I think that's really important, right?

I could imagine that the last thing that the whole enterprise would want coming out of it is this huge, you know, undercurrent of horrible things that perhaps happen inside it. I could imagine that it would be frowned on extra specially just by the nature of what the product is. So people should know better, right? Yeah, absolutely. A lot of people are actually sort of gunning for that. They were sort of hoping and expecting it to be some sort of sleazy orgy all day long. And when I explained to them that it was actually pretty corporate, they were all surprised.

So I think there are probably some people who may have had some sort of idea that it was, you know, a lot of bad behavior when in actuality, it was one of the best behaved places I've worked. So we can, we can assure the listeners that the pre-interview video was not, you know, a gang bang on a large screen that you had to sit through to make it into the business. No, there was porn everywhere. Trust me, naked ladies.. There's a lot of smut on the daily that I had to encounter, but. You nearly used the word endure then, didn't you? You nearly used the word endure. Probably.

But I mean, it's like, it's like working at an ice cream factory and complaining about ice cream. You know, it's like, it's, you know, it's part of the job. So you just have to look past that. So the question is, I actually work with some ice cream manufacturers. I'm curious, at those ice cream manufacturers, they tend to give you a six pack every, every week, you know, or every month, I think it is that all the employees get a six pack of ice cream to take home. Was there any such thing at Playboy? Oh my gosh, I had so much porn and sex toys. My entire office was like the pleasure test.

I mean, I would get ridiculous gift baskets and people just showing up and dropping off beautiful baskets of lube and stainless steel BDSM toys and blow up dolls. And I mean, my office was an absolute den of smut and sex toys. And trust, I told all my friends in the seven and a half years that I worked there, if I ever gave you a sex toy as a gift, just know I didn't pay for it. I can imagine the walk, the Thank you. told all my friends in the seven and a half years that I worked there, if I ever gave you a sex toy as a gift, just know I didn't pay for it.

I can imagine the walk, the clearing of the desk and the walking out might've required more than one box then, you know, rather than just the one box with the happy plant poking out the top. Oh, there's quite a lot. So in terms of the, I guess that the way that swing approached the lifestyle and the way that that's now, you know, even just now in 2020, as you said, you're still hearing from Dr. Jess O'Reilly still getting the feedback. We still receive feedback.

You know, we get a resort in like Desire in Mexico or Hedonism, for example, and you still have so many people around the pool asking the question, how did you get into it? And they bring up Playboy Swing. In terms of the impact that you've seen it have on relationships and now moving into 2020, looking back at Playboy back then versus now, I mean, would it be as much of a shock to air something like that on TV in 2020, do you think? Or how have we kind of adapted as a society? You know, it's hard to say.

We were actually going to do a showdown at Desire and I went down there for a location scout on my own and it was already weird that I was down there because I was not coupled with someone else. I was clothed. I was walking around and then it sort of leaked out that I was the creator and the supervising executive of Swing and suddenly people came up to me all over the place. that show is why we're in the lifestyle, that show changed our marriage, that show brought us together.

Even to this day, I think there would be controversy for that show because it's just so troubling for so many people to accept the lifestyle and for people to understand that the wives go into it willingly and that people are there to have fun and that they're not gross people and that they're just normal, happy couples like anyone else. Even to this day, I think people are still prejudiced against the lifestyle and swingers in general. So that show changed a lot of lives and changed a lot of people's lives.

But that show changed a lot of people's lives, but it also probably would still face a lot of judgment today. So yeah, I think it's really, yeah, it's really interesting that you touch on there, that the, that the women are okay with the lifestyle, you know, that in some cases they're leading people into it as well.

You know, the wives you mentioned, and I think that is something that is still an undercurrent throughout the lifestyle whenever you bring that up with anybody who's perhaps not lifestyle is the immediacy of their response around the fact that it's the man who's driving this and that always seems to be the case.

Do you think that being involved in something like this through Playboy, which is, as you mentioned, predominantly a male-driven business, do you think that that may have also overshadowed the the programming somewhat or or or not well it was definitely a double-edged sword because on one hand you have the cachet of an of a legendary brand right you have the brand recognition of like coca-cola level for playboy and so everybody knewboy. On the other hand, there's also a lot of negativity associated with it. So saying that I'm from Playboy opened a lot of doors, but also closed a lot of doors.

And it was definitely a double-edged sword for us. If I'd said, I'm doing a show about swinging for Lifetime or some other women's cable network, I think people would think that was incredibly ridiculous. HBO, sure, they would get it. But, you know, it all depends. When you said Playboy, the people who really understood the brand and who were just, you know, evangelists of the brand were thrilled. And I hate to say it, but haters are going to hate. People are going to judge the lifestyle no matter where they're from or what they know.

They're just going to hate it because it's either threatening to them or scary to them or whatever. So I don't think those people are ever going to come around regardless of where you say you're producing the show. Yeah, that's a really important topic actually, Wendy, because oftentimes we surround ourselves with very sex-positive individuals. We have a community.

And, you know, Darylaryl and i have been in for example we were in a magazine or a news article about being in the lifestyle and they opened the comments to the general public you know he can do comments that was that was interesting and they actually they closed the comments i think after 24 hours and you know stupid me i got on and i was like hey i wonder what people are kind of saying and yeah maybe there was five percent of people who were like good for you guys like it's not my bag but you know you do you carry on and the 95 percent of the other comments were just hateful and I think sometimes where we live in this little bit of a bubble Daryl and I where we are surrounded by sex positivity and people who accept us and maybe they're in the lifestyle maybe they're not and sometimes I forget that there's so many people out there still, it is troubling to them.

You know, it is really shaking the very foundation of what they believe relationships should be about. I don't really know what to say to those folks. I've encountered so much hatred and so much, so many people really freaked out when they found out that I was working at Playboy. A lot of my feminist friends considered me a traitor. You know, a lot of the moms at school, my daughter was at a very fancy private school. And all of a sudden, the moms formed two different camps. And there were the moms who just thought I was garbage.

And I think part of the reason is that they thought that my job represented their husband's infidelity. Yeah. And so they looked at me as basically the cause of that or a, a, a part of that in some way. And then of course there's the other side and you I'm sure encountered these people all the time. These are the people who pretend they're not interested, but ask a lot of questions.

They'd be like, I mean, we're not interested in swinging at all, but so when you go to a club and I'm like, Oh God, I'm like, I'd be happy to go to a club do you want me to give you some names of a place do you want me to introduce you no no no that no i would never but let me ask you this you know so it's like the two camps quickly formed and i had to decide how to navigate that because it was complicated and there were a lot of my friends and moms at the school who were absolutely hostile towards me and it was like seventh grade all over again and then the other side and then there were some people who were just saying hey can you give me um like a butt plug and a da da da da I'm like yeah sure what do you want and I just pick it up for them and they were fine or people would ask me about blowjob techniques or how to have a threesome everyone in the world would ask me how to have a threesome unless they were a hater.

It's one or the other. Yeah, that is very interesting. And I guess I didn't really think about that side of the house, your position and what impact that would have on your personal life as well. And it does go to show you that we are still battling with people accepting other people.

And I mean, that you know all facets rather than just sex positivity and what you do in your own bedroom i mean that's that's where we live in we still do battle with that let's let's actually move on uh wendy and let's now talk about what you're doing now before we get off that though i do also want to mention again on your medium you have this section of overheard at work and i just want to quote one of yours because i love them. They're hilarious. But this one here is, I don't care which joke you move as long as you end on the masturbating cat. Yeah, that was from the show The Stash.

We did a show called The Stash where we took porn clips and we had somebody making fun of them.

And it was very easy to do because there are so many terrible jokes and terrible moments accidentally terrible is actually how it had to work when they were trying to be funny or trying to be terrible it didn't work but when you had a porn movie where somebody did something truly ridiculous or stupid we used to focus on it on the show and have a lot of fun with it and so we found some sort of video with a masturbating cat and it was during a pitch meeting and they were we were kind of organizing the show and I think they wanted to do something and move something somewhere else and I said listen I don't care what you do as long as we end on the masturbating cat and literally all day long I would say or hear ridiculous things and post them on Facebook and so there are some on medium I actually have some on my website the wendy miller you can see some overheard of work stuff there i have seven and a half years of ridiculous inappropriate hilarious quotes and i saved all of them and it's all going into the memoir and i'm glad you picked that one because that one was actually a really really funny moment moment.

And trust me, there are hundreds. Well, I was scrolling through them going, these deserve to be on T-shirts. I would like this as a slogan on a T-shirt. And it's funny because in the podcasting community, oftentimes we do little snippets like that, like this overheard at work. And we'll pick up something that one of our other podcast brethren will say. and Daryl and I often will get it printed on a T-shirt and send them a T-shirt with whatever their silly, funny, sexy thing that they've said on the t-shirt and wear it around with pride. So I'd like to see some of those actually printed.

I think that'd be great. Let's talk about it later. We can work something out, I'm sure. So, Wendy, you are creating a podcast at the moment yourself. You've got some fantastic content that you're doing and I really want to touch on this because I have been absolutely binge listening to Sex Ed the Musical. I've been consuming your content. I mean, Do It Yourself Sex Toys had me in absolute stitches recently.

Tell us a little bit about what you're actually, what you're doing with Sex Ed the Musical, what you're producing now and really what you hope to achieve and bring to the public by doing this? So I was speaking at a women's conference and there were a bunch of people that got up and then it came time to do a sex panel. And they had OBGYN, they had a sex therapist, and they had me. And basically, when people started asking questions, the other folks gave really smart, interesting answers, but I was just telling it like it is.

And the audience really responded very favorably to that and to the point where they were screaming and I was having a great time and just really connecting with these women and helping them understand that, you know, there's so much shame and judgment and they could just get past it and, you know, just step into their own pleasure. They'd be having so much fun.

And fun and afterward this woman came up to me she came running up to me after the after the session was over and she said oh my god you're so hilarious have you ever hosted a show do you have a show and I'm like what like I'm literally looking over my shoulder to see if she's talking to someone behind me long story short she's a big producer she introduced me to another huge producer I had a big meeting at a studio they were talking to me about hosting a daytime show. It was huge, but it wasn't really right, especially here, daytime TV here.

It's like, I couldn't talk about the things that I would want to talk about. And so when they called me up and they said, yeah, you know what? We really like you. We think you're hilarious, but it's not going to work. I did something I normally never do, which is I lied. And I said, oh, that's okay. I'm starting a podcast in a couple of weeks and I'll, you know, I'll let you know when it's up. And they're like, oh my God, tell us when it's ready. And I was like, uh-oh. And so I literally had to create a podcast. I had to pull it out of my ass.

And so I was working with this podcast coach, a woman named Jackie McDougall. And she goes, well, what are you going to do? And I said, I don't know, the musical, and I'll just do some jingles and I'll have fun with it. So it started as it started because of a lie. And it's just grown and the jingles are so much fun. And I've had some great guests. And I really love it because coming as a TV producer, I'm used to having to take other people's notes and listen to advertisers and get, you know, listen to the network and do everything that they say, you know, follow all the rules.

And now because it's my podcast, I can say or do whatever the fuck I want. And it's the most liberating and fun experience of my career. And I've been having a great time. I've done almost 200 episodes, almost 100 episodes, sorry. I've done almost 100 episodes and started, I launched it last, not this year, but last year, February 14th. And it's been great. And I've got, I've got to meet so many wonderful people like you guys and all sorts of folks have had me on their shows and I've had them on my show and it's been really, really wonderful. And I'm so grateful for it.

So yeah, the show I have, I tell stories from my time at Playboy and I talk to experts and I talk to people who are doing interesting things in the world of sex, and sometimes I have my husband on, and he plays my long-suffering husband because he is my long-suffering husband, and I just have a lot of fun, and it's just been one of the most rewarding things I've ever produced in my career. I'm always envious of your jingles. I have to tell you, every time I'm like, that is just so funny. I love it. And I'm just like, I wish I had something like that.

Well, I think it's probably because you weren't implanted with the funny bone when you were. I was not. Wendy, you are a very funny individual. I am. You got Kate's funny. You definitely got Kate's funny. Dildo's lube, a life-size blow-up guy. Here are some sex toys you can try can try oh well kate's more funny woohoo than she is haha if you know what i mean like she's she's one of those that saying wow she's funny but not but doesn't doesn't laugh at you know that's not true so there you go daryl is also my long-suffering husband uh apparently when it comes to to the humour department.

Yeah, well, the pre-brief for this conversation was, babe, I've got a whole lot of really serious questions. Could you just interject a little bit of humour along the way? That'd be great. So, I mean, Wendy, you mentioned there before you were on a panel, you were telling it like it is, you were just being very real, and women in particular resonated with that.

And I know that you're particularly passionate about, you know, helping women with some of the shame, with some of the judgment that, you know, we just, we grow up with, perhaps as society, you know, the influencers have pushed it on to us or we might, you know, just have that ingrained in ourselves. What do you want to say to those women out there? You've got people perhaps listening to this right now. And I grew up in a very sexually shamed household. You know, I wasn't allowed to shave my legs because sluts shave their legs. I wasn't allowed to wear skirts because sluts wear their skirts.

What do you say to that woman out there who's listening to this? What advice would you give her? First of all, it's not our fault. We were raised in a world where we were shamed for any sort of expression of sexuality or even things were sexualized that were not sexual. Like you wanted to shave your legs and your mother said, no, only sluts do that. You know, girls are raised to be cognizant of everyone else's feelings and to always put ourselves last and, and, you know, just facing a litany of shame. And what happens is, you know, as women, we grow up and we think, well, that's not for me.

I don't want to, I can't enjoy sex. That's for sluts. And I'm, I'm not that person. And there's so much judgment around sex. And at that very panel, I was a woman raised her hand and she said, you know, she has painful sex, but she's afraid to buy lube because she doesn't want to look like a whore. Wow. And I said, you know, you'll spend $45 on a lipstick.

Why don't you just think of lube as lipstick for your vagina you know it's like look at it as a health issue look at it as a wellness issue instead of what you know we've all been taught this line of bullshit that it's against religion or it's against whatever none of that is true you pleasure. You're entitled to pleasure. You're entitled to consensual pleasure with other people. And I'm trying to explain this to women and to get them to step away from the shame that we've all been force-fed. So it's not your fault.

It's okay if you have these feelings, but you're leaving a lot of pleasure on the table and hopefully your show my show and other shows will help teach people that there's a lot out there for them and there's nothing wrong no I love well for starters I mean I just got goosebumps when you told me that she she felt like a whore for buying lube that I mean when I hear these things it actually it gets me at the core I really get quite upset about that because here in Singapore as well we had a sexologist on a number of years ago and she said that there are some women here who still tell their daughters that their vagina, their vulva is dirty, is ugly.

It's untouchable. Don't look at it. Don't touch it. And it just kills me. Any part on anyone's body could be anything but beautiful. It just drives me a little bit crazy.

You you've not seen my beer belly but i mean you know girls are raised to be taught that their their genitals are not even for their own pleasure you know so there's there's a lot of there's a lot of decoding we have to do i have a 14 year old daughter i've worked very hard to make sure that you know she understands the concept of consent and pleasure because when you about sex education, which in this country, forget about it, it doesn't even have to be fact-based in, I think, 26 states. But, you know, they never talk about consent. They never talk about pleasure.

It's always about abstinence, which we know doesn't work, or scare tactics. And these are more things that we all have to endure. It's a gauntlet that we all have to run through. And it's no mystery why there's so much sexual dysfunction. So So I'm trying to have a lot of fun with it and explain to people that, you know, your feelings are legitimate and that's how you grew up and that's what you thought, but let's spend some time, have a little fun and maybe you'll understand that there's something. Yeah.

And I do like one of your quotes, which is that, you know, just because you're going to start exploring your own sexuality and just because you want to, say, break down some of those barriers on, you know, just having that healthy attitude towards your own sexual pleasure, it doesn't mean that you've got to be in the swinging lifestyle. It doesn't mean that you've got to go right now to a BDSM dungeon and get on the St. Andrew's Cross and get spanked, you know.

It can just be even within your own bedroom, within your own relationship with yourself and you and you know just masturbating as well and having pleasure from that right through to yes your your relationship you know it doesn't necessarily mean that you've got to jump straight into the swinging pool so to speak but but as you guys know better than anyone there are all sorts of ways to participate in the swinging lifestyle you can still be going to swinging events you could still be hanging around swingers. You could still be going to clubs and not even be a full swap or a soft swap couple.

You just want to be around that energy. You know, there are all sorts of people. There are voyeurs, there are exhibitionists, there are people who are full swap, soft swap, whatever. You can be in the swinging lifestyle and still have sex exclusively with your partner. It's funny you say that because we regularly get asked, well, when do you start being a swinger? And for me, it's when you start actually just being a little bit more open-minded about your sexuality.

It doesn't have to be that you get involved or even attend, just more that you're a little bit more okay with the fact that, well, perhaps there are other people out there who are doing things that you may not necessarily ever want to do, but you're happy to sit and have a discussion.

That's the thing, one of the things that I quite enjoy, actually, is just sitting with people and having a conversation around what, you know, what they perceive as their sexual wellness and how they encourage either themselves or their own partners to be involved in that wellness, you know, and nothing to do with being with another partner or you know or being like you said kate tied to a cross there's such a big variance in how you can be involved in in your own sexuality in general and and as long as you're open to that and don't uh yuck my yum as they say then i'm happy happy to sit and have a conversation with you and see what your world looks like.

It's always interesting to see. For sure. You know, we were getting ready to shoot season two of Swing, and Swing had two different executive producers. And so a new executive producer was starting for season two, and she said to me, hey, can you take me to a lifestyle party? I don't know anything about the lifestyle. I don't know how things work. My husband and I think it'd be a lot of fun. Can you take us to a lifestyle party? And I said, Yeah, sure. And so I got them into a much better lifestyle party than the first one I went to, which was a gigantic disaster.

And as they were walking around, I was hanging out in the kitchen talking to this guy who ran a really big lifestyle community out of northern california and he said to me he goes so wait a minute let me get this straight you're not a swinger but you hang out with swingers how is that possible how can you hang out with swingers and not be a swinger and i said well i hang out with koreans and i'm not a korean like what does what are you even asking me my friends in the lifestyle i mean no my friends in the lifestyle are the most open-minded fun people i know for sure so you know this is judgment by the way from within the sex positive community which i also have faced so the call sometimes comes from inside the house yeah we we absolutely understand that um it does appear that people who live in glass houses do actually enjoy casting the first stone that's uh an absolute in i think in many lifestyles that perhaps are not considered mainstream that there's always that that well why are you not doing what i'm doing scenario or even why do you approach it the way that you do even within the community you know you're looking at like you're you're doing swinging wrong.

Yeah, you mentioned, you know, a full swap couple versus soft swap couples. Sometimes there is that, well, hold on a second, you're doing it wrong. You're not a real swinger or whatever it is. Now, let's talk a little bit about going to swingers clubs, Wendy, and not being a swinger. For example, most notably, one that you visited that was a container, in a container in an industrial zone. Again, your long-suffering husband. I read your story online. Share with us what happened there. Thank you very much. one that you visited that was a container in a container in an industrial zone.

Again, your long-suffering husband. I read your story online. Share with us what happened there. Oh my God. Yeah. So again, I was doing a location scout. I found out about this place, this lifestyle club, which was near my house and it seemed kind of interesting. And then I went to look at it and I'm like, well, that's a weird neighborhood for a lifestyle club. And it turned out to be a storage container in like an industrial neighborhood. Like, you know, you pull up and there are all these garage doors and it's sort of a long driveway and each one is a storage container.

Well, these guys took two big storage containers and turned them into a lifestyle club, built it out with playrooms and a disco and a bar and like all this crazy shit like it was like an he turned it into an actual nightclub and i remember i walked up to him and i said is this even legal and he said oh no of course not it was like he was you know and then he tried to get me to buy his coffee service which is a side hustle but it was just hilarious and i remember thinking i'm going to a party in a storage container if anyone is looking for me these are my coordinates and of course exactly and of course my husband who is you know my husband very prim and proper my husband he doesn't even swear you know he's a very proper man and he's kind of like we pull in and like it doesn't even have a proper address and he's like this is it like yeah honey this is it and there's a sketchy guy standing out there smoking a cigarette under a light you know and i said hey i'm wendy miller from playboy tv is this club whatever it was called i don't want to use its name he's like yes go inside he's open i'm like okay so it was very sketchy but on lots of totally normal people.

In fact, a few of my neighbors, we all went to the same Costco. So it's just kind of funny. Sometimes a swingers club will pop up in the most unexpected places. I've never heard of a pop-up swingers club before, but I think now I want to, I want to organize one of those. That sounds amazing. Like a pop-up swingers club.

So we're actually actually doing some reviews on on swingers swingers movies at the moment as well on a on a youtube channel that we've just created and we just sat through and i'm going to say sat through because it's an hour and a half of my life that i'll never get back a a swingers movie that's that was created this year 2020 and it actually went to one of the well-known jamaican swingers islands the reason i'm reason i'm broaching this is because it was so appalling and so poorly made both in videography and in acting i'm desperate to figure out how we can get you back involved in this stuff so we can actually have a swingers movie that we we can review that is actually not diabolically shit and finally finished or uses comedic value as well yeah or finally and finally finished by the the monogamy saving the day line which is which is how all of these movies tend to finish so you know what would it take for the world of swinging to get you back involved into something like that so we actually have something we could be proud of to sit back and review?

And I can actually give out a five-star or a five-black ring rating on a movie because that's what we're desperate to find right now. Or do you have any guidance of anything that actually might fit that criteria for us? I would love to do that.

There's a show called You, Me's really big they did they did a pretty good job of that i have to say because most of the time anything about the lifestyle is just completely stupid and fake and fucked up they did a pretty good job about a thruple it delved into drama and most of other things and i was like get to the fucking but anyway i would love to do that i'm actually talking to a company right now about possibly doing a show um that would be an international show things are looking very interesting unfortunately there's a pandemic right now which is sort of uh yucking our yum to quote you back but this is something i would love to do i've done it more than anyone else i know exactly how to do it i know where the keys to the kingdom are i would love to do another show like swing or something else similar we just have to find the right place to air it and the audience will definitely show up because talk about an underserved group of people you get a bunch of garbage or judgmental stuff or fake stuff that people in the lifestyle will spot in a minute.

So I would love to create a lifestyle show or a feature film. You have a promise for me that I'll have it up on the side of the container of my pop-up swingers club. Big banner advertising. Hey, what's the name of your pop-up swingers club? Just curious. Well, since that guy was trying to sell you coffee, mine might be swing by for a cuppa. Actually, I like that. And also, here's our new merchandise store with our Overheard at Work slogans. They're right in the corner there. I love that, and I think, I really hope this, you mentioned before it was international.

I hope that comes off, because one of the things that we have been trying to do for a number of years on our show in particular is bring diversity to the lifestyle, to the voice, to sex positivity, because there's definitely, you know, when we first started, there was no other Australians, podcasters. So it's just a scoochie, Americo-centric, let's just say. A little bit, yeah. But there is more people now, you know, creating sex positive content out of like the UK. There's some great new shows coming out of South Africa.

And so I would love, you know, to see that more international diverse flavor because, you know, we get emails regularly down here, even from people from India, you know, and there's just so many religious types and cultural backgrounds that come into play when you talk about this sex positivity. And so there's an element of understanding not just my own upbringing and some of that shame and judgment that was put through my family, but even there's that cultural side of the house as well.

So I would absolutely love it if that comes off and we will be crossing our fingers and toes and everything else that we have. We have been hated by many different religions, That's for sure. It's a lot of diversity in your head, Mel. That's good. My podcast actually has a ton of downloads from Australia. So I'd like to say a special hi and thank you to all of the Australians who are listening to your show and my show because the support's been tremendous and I really appreciate that. And so there must just be just a real shortage of great content for folks. And I would love to change that.

Now, before we wrap up today, Wendy, since you just mentioned Australia, have you actually ever had Vegemite? Have you ever tried Vegemite? No, I have only heard horrible things about Vegemite. And I'm a very picky eater. First of all, I'm allergic to gluten and I'm a pescatarian, so I mostly only eat fish and rice, and I'm very California that way. But then sometimes I break my rules and have a cheesesteak, so I don't want to be that sanctimonious about my food. But I am not an adventurous eater. I have a long list of sworn food enemies.

Vegemite is not on it on it because i haven't tried it but from what i've heard it's probably not going to be my bag um you know what we're actually house divided i hate it i think that it is the most disgusting thing that's ever ever created on on the face we're thinking of deporting her and and daryl loves it i constantly get told that i'm not an aussie because i don't like vegemmite. So, Wendy, if you want to send us your address, I'll tell you what I will do. No, no. I don't do that. I'm going to send you an Aussie box, which is full of a number of products. It's a company actually online.

Sounds very sexual. Yes, it does. They send products to homesick Australians all over the world. If you want to send me your address, I will send you one of those boxes and I would like to understand your take on Vegemite. I would like to know which side of the fence Wendy's on and I reckon she's going to be Team Kate. This is hilarious. I mean, you might as well just stuff some peanut butter in there as well and call it done. You just... Well, what else would be in that box? What are some other indigenous...

Fantails, a little chocolate, you've got got so they're a caramel a chocolate coated caramel with um on the on the wrapper why they're called fantails is because they have a uh a guess who for there's at least two guess who's on each wrapper and it's you know about a famous person internationally basically and you have to you know you read through what their things are and then you guess who they are. Yep, you've got Wheat Bix, Milo, Shapes, Tim Tams. Tim Tams. Oh, Caramel Koala. You know. This sounds lovely. I'm very excited about trying everything except the Vegemite, but I will.

In fact, I will record it so you can actually see it. The amount of sugar that's in all the other things, probably the salt in the Vegemite might just offset it a little. Offset it a little bit for you. I consider myself a somewhat adventurous person, but with food, I'm typically very cautious. However, you guys are lovely and in the sake of international relations, especially since my country is so fucked up right now, I would like to extend an olive branch and try everything in that box. Well, you've heard it here, everybody. So Wendy's going to send us her address after this.

Wendy will be munching on an Aussie box before you know it. Upside down.

We just really want to say thank you again, Wendy, for joining us on today's podcast for everybody out there listening all of the links to everything we've spoken about today to the wendy miller.com website the sex at the musical website her instagram her twitter is all going to be in the show notes wendy thank you so very much for taking the time out to join us we really appreciate it and is there before before we do run you off is there anything else you want to add in terms of anything new you're working on or any you know you've covered off a couple of things there but anything new that people can get their hands on now that perhaps won't be covered in our show notes i don't have anything that i can really talk about just yet but i'm totally going to push on this swinger show because I think it's going to be really great potentially.

And there's a lot of folks in the lifestyle who would really, really appreciate it. And if you actually need to show whoever it is that's thinking about creating that some evidentiary support from the lifestyle community, let us know. We'll do a shout on our podcast. We'll get some emails in. You can just drop a book of people talking about the fact that they want and need this. So we'll definitely help you out any way we can because we'd love to see it. Thank you very much for that. I appreciate it. I might take you up on that. Send me that link. I want to watch your reviews.

I think that's – I would love to see that. I would love to see people reviewing Swing. That would be more fun. All right, Wendy. Thank you again so much, and thank you for producing everything that you produce. It's great to listen to your podcast. It always brings a smile to my face, definitely with those jingles again, I'm really envious about. And yeah, we hope that you have a fantastic time. We hope that California gets back to normality soon and that you gain the weight back that you've lost and be normal like the rest of us. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.

So guys, that was the interview with Wendy. We really hope that you enjoyed that. Again, hit us up on website, hit us up on email. Let us know what's up with you guys, what's happening with your journey. We really want to hear about it. And otherwise, we will see you guys again soon with some more content. Bye. If you're looking for more ways to interact with Swinging Down Under, you can catch us on Twitter at Swing Down Under. You can also catch us on Instagram, Swinging Down Under, or head over to our website, swingingdownunder.com.

We would absolutely love to hear from you, so if you would like to send us an email, jump online, do it at cnd at swingingdownunder.com if you've got podcast topics questions you want to talk about your journey you can also support the podcast through our website by clicking through on any of the affiliate links or alternatively to jumping over to patreon.com forward slash swinging down under and sponsoring the podcast if you can't do any of those things but just want to make a feel-good day leave us a five-star review cheers everyone and thank you again for supporting swinging down under podcast