P72 – Caliasian fun and Monogamish Marriage

Transcript

Hi there, my name is C. I'm Dee and you're listening to Swinging Down Under. Our journey is a couple through the swinging lifestyle. Are you into open relationships or exploring new things in life? This is our podcast. Experiences, both good and bad, reviews and events and more here at Swinging Down Under. Come on, join us. G'day guys and welcome to Swinging down under this seat. And this is Dee. Today we're going to have a two-part episode. We are talking about a, well, we're calling them the Cali-Asian couple. Dee, why are we calling them that? I don't know.

Because they're from California and now they live in Asia. Oh. Bam.

We're going to chat about our recent date in Kuala L lumpa malaysia and then the second part of the episode is part of our cultural diversity segment it is with a canadian couple how about we call it a culture diversity diversity series series because we see i mean there seems to be an awful lot of cultural diversity to be going around well we hope so that's that's the end game yeah so yeah later on in the second second part of the podcast we're going to be talking to monogamous marriage they are based out of canada canadia yeah canadia but first let's talk about cali asian and our date weirdos right they're great so these these guys actually came to us because we received an email from friends over the united states saying hey these people are moving to asia and we got full-on fucking excited right we did get pretty excited um only because they are sexy um and seem to be quite intelligent and interesting and they're only a 45 minute flight away only for 45 minutes flight people yeah 45 minute flight yeah it's like down the fucking road basically i mean we basically most of the time we don't even order flights we just stick our thumb out near the airport and the flights pick us up and take us yeah and so we had started talking to them when they were on their way to relocate to malaysia and uh you know that was kind of like a few months before they were going to get here but we were like yes we would love a date yes and we had a date like probably maybe not begging for a date i mean you were gagging for a date i was gagging later as well it was somewhere in that realm like it was in that breed if you know what i mean yeah i don't know that begging's the right thing to say but uh we ended up actually managing to book a trip up to kuala lumpur to see them so we set up a date which from now on we're going to refer to as kl true because i am not going to say that over and over and over again that's true yeah so we are chatting to them on kick for a couple of months and set up a date in kl i mean on kick all right just all right no they were super clever and she she discovered tim tams which is funny as shit and then for those of you who don't know what a tim tam is i uh even as a non-sweet tooth it's just a chocky bicky come on yeah but it's possibly one of the best chocky bickies to ever come out of australia yeah well i'm gonna say globally i should say globally i mean i'm just gonna say i'm gonna throw that out there it's a big call i'm gonna throw that there and say, possibly the best chocky bicky globally.

I don't know. There might be some listeners who would disagree. That's okay. They can write me an email at d at swingingdownunder.com and I'll ignore it. Well, you know what I liked about, I mean, before we get into the date, what I liked was the fact that they had just arrived in KL and they were like, here's where we want to take you.

Like when you guys come, they said, where where's your hotel we told them they still waiting on the guac still waiting on the guacamole but they said where do you guys want to go we're going to take you to here and I thought that was great like we've mentioned this in the past episodes but having somebody else whether it's a couple or a single guy set up a date and say this is what we're going to do that's so exciting for me this is what we're going to do with you and to you don't you think that's exciting yes absolutely it was really quite a nice change for us because i think certainly here we've generally been the people instigating and organizing some of this stuff so it's nice to have that as a change it's nice to be taken out on a date that's the difference right good makes you feel like it's like i now feel like a princess i know so you should we were wearing your tiara i was totally matched your ball gown by the way i loved it you know my tiara is code for cochran well but you know what i mean they're great then let's let's chat a little bit about them they're from california and she's actually her heritage is mexican though which was quite surprising to to both of us we didn't pick that but i should have picked it because she has beautiful skin and she just has that like really nice flawless skin and it was i'm jealous of her skin it's gorgeous oh i mean is this going to be the episode where we talk about you peeling the skin off somebody it puts the lotion she did and she was just i loved she had gorgeous long hair beautiful eyes beautiful actually you know what her teeth and smile too were fantastic and he was like tall short hair super handsome great combination they were a great fit perfect couple i'm not sure i could throw anything else at this i mean you you really there's a lot of compliments going on here, and I'm you know, I know they listen so I'm not sure that I can blow any more wind up their asses.

Yeah Well, we do have permission to talk about them. I did triple check that of course But yeah, we always have permission when we do about people so we do absolutely those of you don't understand that That's how it works.

Yeah, and I'm just throwing it out there Yeah, but yeah, I don't want people to think that we're just gonna talk about people so we do absolutely for those of you don't understand that that's how it works yeah and i'm just throwing it out there yeah but yeah i don't want people to think that we're just going to talk about like their shit you know but we turned up at the date especially if it's a crap date i'm not going to just turn around and say you guys were shit in the sack the shit in the sack or shit in the sack oh if they shit in the sack then that's a whole different story i mean you know that somebody takes a dump in my bed i mean there needs to be some serious conversation around that before and afterward hey d i see what you're trying to do here you're trying to derail the conversation why would i ever derail the conversation man it's not gonna happen i know because you've got a book full of fucking notes over there of which i might add so c decided you know i bought her a nice beautiful book that you know that she could take to work like it's not a diary but it's something that you can take notes in portfolio type thing a portfolio and you know the one of the her first acts of vandalism of vandalism is to rip a fucking page out of it i mean this is a bound book you can't go around ripping pages out no i did and then you can't do that i've got such such comments as beautiful pussy in here as well well.

So this goes to work with me every single day. Really? Yeah. Hopefully nobody ever flicks to the back. Hopefully no one. To the dark side of your portfolio. Meanwhile, on the right-hand side, I've got to do, cake class, pole dancing, private group. Nice. Eclectic little mix. Sorry, what? Cake class? Cake class and pole dancing. Yeah, pole dancing. Fuck me.

I mean, your mind is like a soup of crazy zombies chasing i don't know other zombies i like lesser zombie zombies so getting back to the date oh sorry back to the day we turned up and first of all we had a few drinks and it was a really nice bar get out we had drinks we had drinks on a day it was crazy yeah yeah it was a really nice bar it was a very nice bar they had very uh some really cool drinks and stuff and also what was really amazing is they weren't like four hundred dollars per drink which is something quite something quite different for us now we're kind of used to every drink which you just recently got a drink that was a light bulb in a glass of ice with with something in it and and i mean it was 30 dollars almost 40 almost 40 dollars for the the size of a light bulb it was probably maybe 30 mils of liquid right yeah maybe so an ounce and a half yeah ish maybe yeah like a shot just slightly bigger than a shot glass but yeah good drinks i thought there was like a blow job coming to follow that there was no blow jobs and then we went and had dinner so we went and had dinner in the restaurant next door now the reason we brought up guacamole earlier is because the whole night holy guacamole kate how amazing the guacamole was at the restaurant next door well they were unavailable and couldn't yeah i mean i feel like i feel like the lack of guacamole spoilt the entire day really yeah i mean i'm not sure i can get past the lack of guacamole i mean especially being that avocado is like not hard to get your hands on but an avocado that's not firstly like a cricket ball or say baseball for those people out there who don't understand how hard a cricket ball is and then within two days it's got maggots crawling out of it yeah i mean there's nothing in between avocados are never ripe they're either green or rotten exactly but that's why guacamole is so hard to come by yeah so don't be judgy i'm judging i mean i've heard so much about this guacamole now and and not only that we're sitting there eating dinner and it's like the guacamole next door is so awesome i'm like just i mean you're fucking teasing me with this guacamole yeah between the guacamole mishap and the complete lack of understanding of australian uh geography was pretty fucking hilarious yeah look that's okay we're schooled australia but uh yeah so afterwards we we did head back to the hotel but uh did, I think you guys got a little bit freaky in the elevator, if I remember correctly.

I don't know what you're talking about. There may have been a small lunge from my side of the elevator onto the other side of the elevator with some groping and feeling and inappropriate touching. I'm pretty sure there was. Yeah. Some boobs out. There was boobs out.

Well, not out, but, you know, my hand was inside the the boob nest the boob nest yeah which is code for bra i think a boob nest from now on yeah but we ended up going back to to our hotel which was fairly central and not a bad spot i guess ish you know we had a little like lounge area it had a bed and them in it so i mean i'm just throwing that out there that's true that's true but the ladies uh the ladies stopped and both uh got dressed in some lingerie which was kind of cool which was very cool yeah we both had the opportunity to kind of dress down into some lingerie absolutely and the guys just stood in the bedroom backward hand slow stroking it yeah just to make things weird when you walked out now a little thing about mrs caliasian is that apparently she's straight but the way her mr caliasian likes to explain her is that she's like spaghetti um she's straight until she's wet yeah straight until she's wet so that was pretty funny we joked about that earlier in the evening and i i have to i love that i have to testify i love that uh i love that line she's definitely she was definitely spaghetti that should be a new drop down in the menu menu on like stc and stuff oh spaghetti straight or spaghetti no just spaghetti just like i'm spaghetti i'm spaghetti i like to throw some meatballs every now and then whoa i like to gargle some meatballs yeah juggle them around a little bit you know feel the sensation in my hands that sort of thing you know wow sounds really saucy oh fantastic but yeah we i mean the play session i don't know what your highlight was d but i'm going to share i'm going to share a few of mine um one she has an amazingly beautiful pussy and i actually told her that halfway through the play session because Yeah.

Because she did. Just before you stuck your face in it. Well, you know what? I feel like compliments of that kind don't go astray, you know? Yeah, yeah. Throw them out there. Good, good. She had a, I agree. She definitely had a nice. And he had a lovely cock as well. So, I mean, like, the pair of them. Yeah, so it's like a... Sexual toy area was delightful for me. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, now we're talking, given you've already, you know, given compliments for every other part of their body i think yeah certainly we could go to this to the um to the to the rude areas but uh do you know what my one of my highlights was it was a position that we're probably in an upcoming episode we are going to follow on from our sex positions uh for the couples and we're going to move on to sex positions for three or more so that'll be coming up in a in an episode in the future but this position is definitely going to be in the highlight reel okay i don't know if you're going to remember this so let me just try to break it down for you so he was lying on his back with facing up to the ceiling obviously with his head towards the bed area yeah so his head was kind of touching the bed head and on the ground regular way up on the ground yes like like how a normal person would sleep in a bed he wasn't on the bed he was on the floor oh she was sitting on his face so he was lying on the floor she was sitting on his face i remember this but she was facing the bed now i was then on the bed with my legs spread she was going down on me so it's becoming a train at this point right yeah and then you got up and kneeled on the bed and put your cock in my mouth yes i do remember that your cock i was on the bed you were kneeling on the bed your cock in my mouth she was going down on me she was sitting on his face the only one missing out in all of the well no i can't say he was missing out he had a lovely pussy in his mouth so i'm pretty sure maybe maybe he was wanking we'll have to go and see wanking wanking what was he masturbating in the 1970s tugging one out i don't know rubbing one out rubbing i mean you are terrible at this we'll have to find out i'll keep wanking one oh he was wanking one out for sure yeah for sure yeah maybe he was who knows i don't know definite highlight though for me yeah that was pretty cool it was a definite highlight for me as well because it's always nice to see a lovely lady looking up from your pussy as well well okay and the other thing was that basically as the session was continuing on you were absolutely going to fucking town with her i remember at one point uh i was swapping with him and you were swapping with her and both the ladies were on their backs on the bed yeah and her feet were basically at her ears yeah and there was just a moment there where there was just fucking hardcore for i don't know how long on your least three to four seconds at least three to four pumps we're back in the 70s again good for you good for you babe but that was fucking hot it was actually having actually both of you but having both of you ladies getting fucked at the same time um and you i mean you were getting fucked as well you you had your legs up around his waist there for a while which i actually quite like hers were by her ears i just remember thinking a bit of a pretzel she was very flexible yes which again is not a downside we did have to turn the air conditioning all the way down to like as cold as it would go and it still really didn't work out for us we were uh we were sweating yeah well i mean i know i was another mr cagliation was sweating as well another highlight for me was actually when we were first in the room and they were just playing and joking around and talking about standing up 69.

Oh, yeah, and then they just did it.

The way to get into the position was that he was like lying on the bed but his legs and knees and feet were over the edge and she positioned herself into a 69 position wrapped around him and then he proceeded to sit up sit up and stand up and i'm like wow man it's fucking power lifting no sorry oh that sounded horrible that's not what i meant it's just just like wow um i'm pretty sure that we could kill each other doing that i my neck would definitely break you actually want you told you said that you want to do that i do want to give it a go but go, but I did precursor the fact that I would like to give it a go with the fact that I also think I'll die.

Maybe in a sponge pool, though. Maybe. Maybe in one of the, oh, you can go to the children's ball pits. A ball pit's not soft. And then just, you know. No, you don't want to get dropped into a ball pit. No, you don't want to do that?

Oh, don't try and do a dive into a ball pit i've tried it fucking hurts what's what's your evening highlights to share uh actually strikingly you covered one of them absolutely um being actually you got both of them so i really like the i really like the fact that uh we were like jewel fucking the ladies that was really cool um and what else i really liked about that is that both of you were really quite enjoying it which was awesome um i do i mean i this is kind of selfish and me being the hot wifer dude that i am really enjoyed the the um the screams and moans coming out of your mouth as you were coming and like two or three times i think so yeah it was a i think it was a spectacular evening from start to finish yeah lots of different positions too i liked it i liked the well lots of mix between couple positions and four-way positions and three-way positions and like two hand positions and yeah it was it was a it was a move moving evening well okay so i was actually thinking about this come on that's two really shit jokes that i've got no credit for whatsoever i'm sorry oh you never give me credit for my shit jokes it's just i mean come as a i just have to i mean i'd be like wow that was amazing every five to ten seconds so i was thinking about this the other day about the moving and just different positions and kind of like everything else and i've decided i've decided something you're ready for this okay okay swinging with couples is like rock climbing yeah sometimes you kind of just got to stand back review the path ahead of you pick a hole pick some holes holes think about holes yes not holes get that d in there holders stand back assess the mountain that is the bodies in front of you decide on the best path forward and the strategy to maneuver and then just kind of find your way in yeah i agree so i go into one of the holes swinging is like rock climbing yeah it is Yes, it can be, which is probably why the balays are some of our favorite.

Yeah. That's why.

into one of the holes swinging is like rock climbing yeah it is yes it can be which is probably why the balays are some of our favorite yeah nice work good call back you like that good for those of you who haven't listened to the podcast up until now you've got a long way go go back to find the blaze they're still uh definitely around but we haven't seen them in a while they're coming for christmas they are coming for christmas we may try to get them in front of the microphones and this time actually hear them properly i'm actually going to be like i'm thinking a christmas present okay yep excellent yep just i don't know how i'm gonna do that but yeah super super fun evening and actually um we're very excited because they're going to come to singapore and see us very soon yeah in christmas no i'm talking about the cali asia oh cali asians yes they are down here soon yeah in like a month right yeah so yeah we're super excited that we have uh pants on and pants off friends like 45 minutes flight away you can almost hear the desperation in her voice folks hey it's only 45 minutes when you find a good couple you gotta you know you gotta dig in you gotta you gotta pick those holes you gotta commit man you gotta commit to that 45 minute flight or whatever it is dive your way into those holes dive your way in exactly yep gotcha anything else about the evening or the date that you'd like to know i'm gonna say i think after this conversation we should redact the the page that you have in front of you so that you know like your work colleagues can't see all the fucks and sex and can't and penis in mouth yeah let me just let me just read my notes here so i've got beautiful pussy nice cock spaghetti buy when wet lingerie de-fucking hard she sits on his face swapping tasting hard fucking the ac is turned up and they come coming to Singapore.

So this is in the back of your work diary. Well, actually, I'm about 10 pages away from this actual page now because I've almost filled up this portfolio. There you go. Yep, there we do go. So, yeah, fantastic evening. And so coming up next, we do have our interview with Melogamish Marriage. So firstly, though, thank you.

Thank thank you thank you guys for a fantastic evening and we look forward to seeing you again soon yeah that's very true yeah thank you guys and you guys are fantastic and uh thanks for dinner as well yeah again yeah yeah we didn't even we didn't even pay we paid for drinks oh did we yeah okay we paid for drinks they bought the nice wine and dinner so she paid she totally paid for drinks it's definitely going to be our um our term when they come to singapore i think oh ah now i see see you remember earlier in the night when we paid for drinks they're like ha ha ha that's because you fuckers don't want to pay for dinner now i see what happened yeah that was all a ploy so when they come down to singapore and we pay for drinks and dinner it's like a million dollars unless they just come to our place sneaky ordering mcdonald's getting some yeah fucking maccas bit of maccas bit of home really a little bit a little bit of home just turning it up you know we can do repackage it put it on a plate lay it out on a nice line or we could just order in some in and out in out burger in and out burger i don't know in obscure united states references unless you know what you're talking about yeah good point my bad for shame yeah god tim tams tim tams uh yeah but otherwise uh coming up in future episodes as we just mentioned before we are going to cover some swinging positions for three or more people we are yeah do we have to practice those maybe we do we need to write them down for sure i've got some pages left in my work portfolios we need drawings in there though they have to there has to be drawings absolutely because that would be awesome and they also have to be stick figures okay with like stick figures but with stick figures penises and boobs and boobs on the yeah stick figure females yeah that that'd be awesome yep yep big veiny cocks like stick figure with a big veiny cock.

Can you draw a big veiny cock? No. Can you give it a shot? I actually want to see your interpretation of a big veiny cock. No, but I can mould one with Play-Doh. You've moulded a cock, not a veiny cock. Yeah. You just kind of mould the Play-Doh in with a vein on the side. You roll it, it's fine. You've got to sort it. Yeah, now you're talking about penguin cocks. What?

Well, that's how penguins keep their hands warm oh jesus christ they roll their cock between the hands i mean seriously otherwise thank you for listening guys we're going to break now we'll be back with monogamous marriage and thank you for listening to us as always break break hey guys we're here today with mike and kate from canada thanks for joining us guys thanks for having us now canada is a bloody huge place we have a map on our wall and we've never been to canada with no pins in it no pins in it we've never been it's a it's a problem for us we really want to get there but how how big is the actual country like flying from one side to the next it's the second biggest country in the world by landmass all right so what we want to talk about today is a little bit about your country so your culture and sexual diversity as well just to kind of get a feel about how people grow up in different areas of the world and how that might affect sexuality or you know affect their sexual expression so if you guys are good with it we're going to talk and we're going to delve a little bit into mike and kate and their sexuality are you guys good with that really good absolutely really good he says well i mean we've got the video turned off on skype right now so we really don't know what they're up to i mean it could be a very exciting very exciting time in the bed that they're recording.

Yeah, Mike's keen to talk about sex. Well, before we get started, guys, just so our listeners have an understanding of who Mike and Kate are, can you give us a bit of a – where do you guys live? Tell us a little bit about yourself. We're a married couple who live in Toronto, and we started very gradually into our lifestyle adventure, probably right from the very beginning of our relationship or close to it, so which would be seven years ago. And we decided at a certain point that when we were looking for information, we couldn't find the things we were interested in.

So for us, that was information about the lifestyle that wasn't either jokey not that we don't have senses of humor but sometimes people use humor as a way to not talk about a subject or that wasn't clinical and cold so we're just plain erotica yeah or just plain erotica so we want to just write about it in a way that was real that we would not hold back when we had failings and embarrassing moments and that kind of thing and it was just a nice thing to do together as a couple as a creative project as well i got stuck in the erotica for months just fyi um actually still there in a lot of a lot of cases yeah just oh yeah there's nothing wrong with sexy stories we tell some of them too right Yeah, and we can send you a copies picture of cases.

Oh, yeah, there's nothing wrong with sexy stories. We tell some of them too. Right. Yeah, and we can send you a toughest picture of Kate as soon as we're finished this interview. So, yeah. So, hurry up. We've got to meet all your needs. Okay, so interview over. This is C&D signing off. Thanks for listening, guys. Bye. So, let's talk a little bit about your sexual history. So you guys got together seven years ago. I'm assuming you weren't virgins when you got married. Is that accurate? I was a virgin when I got married the first time at 23 years of age. Wow, were you?

23 years old, virgin, walking down the aisle, then you did the whole evening. What is that called, Dee?

When you take somebody back at that night called an evening of terror you consummated your marriage that evening aka the evening of no we couldn't even cement it that evening because it's you know you hold back that long you don't just go hey let's go yeah it was very difficult a couple of days to get it right so but we were came from a very religious background my first wife and i so there's lots of baggage to deal to deal with it's interesting um you say that because here in singapore we still have a whole lot of people who've been married for you know we know of people that have been married for up to 10 years and still haven't managed to consummate their marriage just around the fact that they've had an interesting upbringing, I suppose, when it comes to their sexuality.

Yeah, and oftentimes I don't think there's a lot of information readily available for people about that subject, right? I mean, would have taught you you know like what to do on on your wedding night you know where did you get that information from did that education come from anywhere within the family or was it just assumed that you'd kind of find your merry own way or school oh no i i like i attended the university of porn regularly from the age of 13 so i knew what to do. It was frankly just my wife was too nervous. We just couldn't get it in, to be frank. So, yeah, it took a little while.

And that was the template for the next 26 years. Yeah. Oh, okay. So your ex-wife was a 26-year marriage. Yes, that's right. And so during that time, you were obviously exploring a little bit more about what you wanted in the bedroom, and perhaps she was still holding some of those difficult upbringings or a bit more structured upbringing. Is that accurate? Yeah, I think a lot of religious women, but others as well.

It's, you know, you're taught to be a good girl, be a good girl okay now do whatever you want and yeah and some women just go that's awesome and they just they're off to the races and some go i can't turn that corner that fast and she was one of those people i turned the corner very fast though yeah i was i was about to flip over and say, Kate, tell us about your devious upbringing. And you obviously, you know, caught Mike in with some of your sexual advances, and he couldn't hold back. So tell us about yourself. Well, it's funny, because we both had pretty religious upbringings.

And my parents were just very different in that um it was a very sex positive home but it was always kind of within the context of marriage so my parents were really flirty and were constantly touching and kissing and you know making jokes about the wet spot so i i never had any big religious hangups about sex, but I did try to wait until marriage. I didn't quite get there, but we were engaged, um, by the time I lost my virginity. Um, but yeah, like I just embraced it wholeheartedly.

We tried everything, you know, in the two years we were dating where we were trying not to do it, we were doing everything else. And I got really good at blowjobs and, you know, handjobs and all kinds of fun massage things. And so it was actually a pretty great education trying to hold off, but just do everything else. And then once the floodgates were open, I was just like crazy. You used the term floodgates so well. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's, I mean, it's really amazing because for us, you know, we've mentioned it before, but we actually lost our virginity quite young.

And I know that the age of consent in Canada is 16, which is the same as Australia. But I guess for us, for me me i don't know i can't speak for d but hearing two people that were you know young adults losing their virginity is a bit of a mind blown for me it's pretty rare for me to have a conversation with people who had you know lost their virginity around your ages i don't know d what do you think you know i think i think we were both a little bit little bit more conservative and more cautious about sex at the beginning than our peers were.

I know most of my girlfriends had lost their virginity by the time they graduated high school. So I think we were the exception, not the rule. That's interesting. So, I mean, did that, you know, hinder your wanting to do it or did it make you want to do it more? I mean, did you feel any pressure from those people, whether it was intense pressure, whether they had actually meant the pressure or whether it was just perceived pressure as you're going through your education and other people are, I guess, starting to sexually express themselves? I don't think I had any external pressures.

It was just my own desire. So I was Thank you. and other people are I guess starting to you know sexually express themselves I don't think I had any external pressures it was just my own desire so I was really horny like I masturbated for the first time when I was three so I I just really wanted to fuck but um so for me the only pressure was like my own desire fighting against what I thought God wanted me to do. So hearing my friends talk about it, it wasn't really like it didn't affect me one way or the other. I was happy for them because they seemed to enjoy it.

And I'm maybe a little bit envious that they could do it without feeling guilty. No, I think my only battle was within myself, i am i'm both impressed that you remembered what you did at the age of three because i can't remember anything from that yeah dude everyone remembers their first orgasm no matter even if it is age of three yeah wow that that is impressive what about yourself mike did you i mean were you masturbating at the age of three or were you tipping it and doing it at two and a half? No, that was like 13 for me.

But, you know, when you talk about like losing your virginity late, I considered myself the horniest young man in the Western world. But at the same time, I took my faith super seriously. So you could not would if a beautiful woman had approached me at the age of 20 and said no one's going to know about this i'm never going to tell anyone and i'm moving to uh china next year you can have sex we can have sex and i would have said and here's 500 to have sex with me and i would have said it matter. God can see. I can hold back. So, like, I took it very seriously.

But I was jerking off continuously. Like he couldn't leave the cubs. Yeah. So as soon as you put it in a sock, God's unwilling to see it. Is that what we're at?

at yeah i have ways of explaining it to myself okay so again thinking about your masturbation and thinking about when you guys started having sex i mean kate where do people actually go to have sex when they're younger i mean for the first time when you did it was in your house your partner's house a friend's house the back seat of the car i mean where do people actually go to have sex when when they're in canada i don't know toronto well i definitely had a lot of car sex so we got to know the um the local parking lots really well um but i actually lost my virginity in my boyfriend's parents house where he was still living at the time i guess they were away for the evening or something and uh yeah so i think a lot of kids you know they they just do it at their parents house when they're out or when they're you know upstairs and the kids are in the basement i don't know i haven't done a poll of where kids have sex but uh i would guess there are a lot of bedrooms no but we have an 18 year old probably had his first time in our house in the last six months or so yeah so we're you know we're pretty discreet when he's in the basement we don't go down there without calling out first in the hope he does the same thing for you when he's walking upstairs, yells out right oh we're terrible we're shameless so yeah he's probably been deeply traumatized already perfect so i mean given you know c's done a usual study here to understand the history of sexuality in canada and i've got to say you guys should be very proud of your history in terms of how quickly you adopted everything around you know homosexuality just sexuality in general it's been quite a open country do you think that's helped you guys once once you got over and I think both of you kind of explained some pseudo-religious hang-ups, once you got past those, do you think the openness of the country's mentality towards sex has helped you guys move into something that's a little bit, I suppose, left to centre when you're talking about, you know, an open relationship versus your traditional monogamous style?

Yeah, well, I think probably it's the same thing in where you live, or at least in Australia, maybe not in Singapore. But, you know, there's a legislative level of change, and then there's a street level of change.

And it's been, frankly, jaw-dropping how quickly like within a generation you know you could still make slurs about gay people and everyone knew what you meant and no one thought that was wrong in any way to like a total embrace and a real sensitivity to different kinds of sexuality and that happens so fast in our culture it really it's inspiring and it's amazing so what do you think i mean why do you think it changed so quickly at street level because certainly in australia legislatively wow that's a tough word and a big one it's bigger than marmalade um at a legislative level certainly the changes happened a little while ago, but we still see some hang-ups in some areas of the country, and I'm going to isolate areas, that they're not yet embracing that.

And I think conversely here in Singapore, the street level is actually more open than the legal, the the legal the legislative level it's really quite interesting to see the difference well i think you know like there's things here like president obama said that he credited ellen with making the change so just you know seeing people on tv who weren't the subjects of um of parody and just being real and being gay and i think that made a difference and uh just a lot of a lot of little things added up into a big change but i wouldn't pretend to really be able to explain it myself sociologically yeah and it you know gay marriage has been legal here for more than 10 years now you know it was interesting to watch in the states just in the past few years as they gradually legalized gay marriage to see the uproar you know on facebook and twitter and and just to kind of look at each other and and laugh and be like you know what's the big deal we've had it for a long time it's not a problem yeah i don't know what accounts for that maybe it's just we've had longer to get used to the idea maybe it's that you know a large percentage of canadians i was reading the other day i think 82 percent of canadians live in large cities so you know when you live in a in a fairly large urban area you're just exposed to a lot of different ways of being right you know different cultures and religions and different colors and different foods and different sexualities and so i think because so many canadians are in those big urban centers and are exposed to so many different you know ways of living we tend to accept lots of things faster i don't know that's a it's a really valid point because living in bigger cities you are generally exposed to a broader range of people and how they choose to live their life and especially the the naked men in jackets in the park they expose themselves quite a lot the naked men in jackets I'm pretty sure there's nobody in Canada who's naked in a park in winter just FYI no they could be not in winter.

Not in winter. If they are, they're not showing you much. They'd be showing like two belly buttons. Oh, gosh. And so for you guys, I know recently that you actually wrote a very good article on some of the Toronto clubs. And, you know, I follow a lot of the clubs on our Twitter account, and I see some of the, I guess, the events they're hosting, both inside and outside of the club. There's been, like, a naked bike ride through the city recently. That sounds messy. I mean, this is a seat-on scenario or a seat-off scenario? This is a seat-on scenario.

But, I mean, for me looking at that obviously i'm amazed one one i'm amazed by it and i think how progressive but then two i'm like gosh you know what would that be like to live in a country where you could be so expressive i know that you wrote an article on the toronto club scene but for you guys being in the lifestyle where do you actually go to meet like-minded people do you prefer clubs do you think the clubs in your area are great to go to or is it a sporadic thing that you do i mean how do you meet like-minded people well we're really spoiled for clubs because yes we wrote in the article there are five major ones very close to where we live so fucking hard you guys right now.

Sorry, please continue. The problem is we're really verbal people. And the one thing you can't do at a club, you can have sex, you can have a threesome, dance, you can drink until you're drunk, but you can't have a conversation at a sex club. Most of them. Oasis is different. Oasis is different. That's true.

we we got away from meeting people well i say we never met anyone at a club we just couldn't learn a name because of how loud it was but we started online dating and as a couple and that was just immensely rewarding sexually and socially i think it's really interesting interesting you say that the clubs we enjoy are the clubs where the music's quiet enough certainly in some of the areas you know you're going to have some division maybe a dance floor where it's louder but you've got little areas where you can sit down with people and actually converse get to know them understand their story a little bit, and more importantly for me, understand that they're actually on the same page because in clubs or in any, I'm going to say, forced environment, you've got to be careful that you don't end up with a couple that's in a different frame of mind from each other.

And you never know that until you've actually sat with them and you can gauge that. And you can pick that up fairly quickly when you do actually sit and talk with somebody. It doesn't take long at all to understand a couple's not at the same place. Yeah, sometimes you don't even need to say a word, you can just see it. But definitely once you get talking, the contradictions come out.

Yeah, for out yeah for sure yeah absolutely i think for for us you know the the times we've enjoyed visiting clubs and i mean we do enjoy them they're quite fun obviously for us we go to them very rarely so i think probably now when we go to a club we are kind of interested in having that party atmosphere because we just don't have it around us right now but i know that the club that you have there they've got like a daytime pool set up so you can kind of have more of that intellectual connection before you go off and and play you know but whereas for us right now it's it is very heavy on the the online dating or couple to couple or threesome dates as opposed to kind of going to a club but do you do you guys have a variety of dating sites there maybe that there's one or two more dominant sites well there's definitely i think in every area there's a site that is the place where people congregate and so for us in at least our part of canada is a site called cafe desire so the site graphics are not awesome functionality is not superb but it is the place where you want if you want to find someone in the toronto area that's the one place where they are and so we met a lot of great people there yeah so we're also on cassidy and sls but we just don't find there are a lot of toronto-based people on that on those sites so when we travel to the states we'll use some of the some of the more american sites to try and find parties or people we want to meet but yeah when we're here it's cafe desire yeah and the other thing that we didn't mention is that house parties have become a big thing so we've met a lot of great people at other ones again because they're venues where you can actually have a conversation and then we started having parties of our own two years ago and that's been an amazing experience for us do you guys ever travel to the other side of canada to enjoy the lifestyle i mean do you have any other experiences you know away from the toronto scene perhaps on the the west coast of canada at all we haven't traveled within canada but Hedonism.

So we've been there 10 times and we've met a lot of great people there. Actually, there's a surprising number of Canadians at Hedo. Every time we go, we're shocked by what a big group of Canadians there are. And, you know, when we travel in the States, we always look for a scene. So in Chicago and New York and...

The problem for us was we went to all these cities that are bigger and have maybe a richer sexual history you would imagine than Toronto and we just never found a scene like even we're used to here New York's you know five times bigger than Toronto so you think if we have have 25 clubs, and they don't. They have, like, two. And so it was not an easy scene for us to, I was going to say penetrate, but I want Dee to keep focusing on the conversation here and not just kind of wander off. Ah, penetration. I mean, that's not a big surprise to us.

It's kind of interesting, even speaking with your North American brethren.

They're also, well, we've all noticed quite, well, seemingly Canada has a lot more swingers or a lot more non-monogamy and similarly has a lot more clubs than what we're used to in cities of equivalent sizes that seems to be across the board you know we've got friends from both coasts in Canada and it seems that it's it seems to be a common commonality I suppose that there is more than you would expect so it's interesting you guys have found that as well even just going down into north america or when we go to hedonism we were surprised by how many canadians are there like you would think well we're near a country that's 10 times bigger so there should be 10 times more of them than us and it's not the case it's almost 50 50 and when we talk to people they invariably say oh our country is so Conservative and so old-fashioned even though we're aware of the pop culture that seems so the opposite of that seems so progressive and Open to adventure, but apparently that's just the thin veneer at the top and that beneath it is a deep Reservoir of conservatism Yeah, I'm'm actually interested in that I think next we speak to an American couple because we're going to slide our way around the world here and speak to people from different countries all over and ask this question I think that's something of interest is that does so well I shall ask you guys does your pop culture truly reflect is the the not truly but it is at least some form of reflection of what's actually happening in country I think if you watch Canadian television you would think that we're all British most of Canadian TV has British actors or maybe we've just imported BBC programming I don i don't know so i don't know that we even have yeah we just take on the american pop culture and pretend it's ours okay i have a question why there's so many canadians at hito do you do you guys have direct flights down there or something is that what's going on because for us to get there i think it's about 29 almost 30 hours holy shit yeah so for us from toronto we're really lucky it's like three and a half hours in the air direct i mean seriously i'm just wanting to hang up there's a few reasons to hang up firstly the number of clubs secondly three hour flight to get to uh all jamaica fucking island and three i'm going to get to see kate's boobs when we hang up don't you think i've forgotten i haven't forgotten oh don't think she's forgotten either oh gosh and it's okay so it could be good to be canadian yeah and free healthcare i mean and free fucking healthcare yes and global warming has to be good for someone and guess who it's good for i can imagine you guys are working on your team quite well at the moment 30 years from now it's going to be heaven on earth and singapore is literally going to be hell yeah that's exactly right it's going to be like constant 90 degrees temperature here and i mean celsius by the way kate's got her shirt off now so she's ready for that that little expose at the end but just keeping you updated please let's continue with the interview did anybody hear that knock on the bottom of the table so you said there before that perhaps you know people have this perception that if you scratch if you scratch the top level that maybe underneath it's not as as freeing and opening.

For you guys, if you were to come out to your community, to your peers, what would, if anything, be the ramifications of that? I've come out to most of my friends and family. The only people I'm afraid of right now are my parents and colleagues. My parents are still very religious and might disown me, so they cannot know ever, ever. So a porn curry is out of the question as well. Yeah. But my siblings know, my friends know. My son even knows that I'm a nudist.

I'm not too worried about that, but it be good at work and what about you Mike what's your your thoughts on it well the big debate for me actually is my kids because I feel like what we discovered almost by accident is how amazing even from a spiritual level the lifestyle is just in terms of connecting with people on a way that you couldn't have imagined was possible what it's done for our relationship which was a fantastic relationship to start with is now just into the surreally fantastic so to not tell my kids that from i don't know some leftover prudishness i feel like i'm they're missing out on their education so they may come across it on their own anyway but that's been the debate with kate and i just whether to talk to them about it at what stage will they be judgmental of her who is not their mom who came lately into my life and their lives so that's the big thing for us i my business partner knows i talk to him about it all the time he's just wildly interested See you next time.

into my life and their lives so that's the big thing for us my business partner knows I talk to him about it all the time he's just wildly interested in every chapter of our adventures okay I'm going to get a little bit away from Canada right now because this has been something that Dee and I have discussed a lot and I really want to talk to you about it Mike you just said that you've told your work colleagues and they're intrigued by it kate you said you're worried about telling your work colleagues because and again this is just my personal assumption but that they might judge you and that could hinder you in your business you know progression it is that a valid statement and the reason i'm asking that is because we have over the years realized that if Dee tells a colleague or an ex-colleague, you know, he gets the old pat on the back, like, good on you, buddy.

Sluts versus studs is what it is. Whereas for me, you know, sometimes in business at a certain level, we can already be perceived as being the bitch, the power bitch, you know, these sorts of things. And I guess I also hold concerns if i told my colleagues would that hinder my career possibilities kate what is your reasons and what do you think about the fact that mike can be very open and you're concerned about it i mean the double standard is certainly real but the the luxury for mike is that he owns his own business, so he cannot get fired. So he has complete job security.

For me, I work for other people. So I just have to be more cautious about how I'm perceived because there are rules in my workplace about conduct. And so I actually told one of my colleagues about our blog, because she was talking to me about how she's wanting to enter an open relationship. And she had had a relationship with a much, much younger man who was in a relationship himself. Anyway, so I felt like we were sharing and there was kind of mutually assured destruction here. So I told her about the blog and very quickly it spread throughout my workplace.

And it went from I write a blog to I am on a sex website. So all of a sudden I was a porn star. And yeah, I had to shut that down really fast and say that she was lying. Jesus. All those whispers. That's awesome.

I love the way the story's changed before you know it you're an anal sex toy model oh yeah it's the it's the fucking game of telephone right nothing stays the same it just gets crazier and crazier i'm sorry to hear that though that's that's shitty because you are right i think you know even for us when we share our face photos when we share uh our our careers or open up i guess a little bit under that that surface level introductions and share the real c and d you know yes people could quite easily use that to our advantage or to their advantage but sometimes we not to their advantage to our detriment there's a very big difference but but oftentimes when you do that there is that perception of there's a level of security hey we're both in this together you know equally we know each other about we know a little bit about each other and we're not going to kind of hurt each other I guess so that self-assured destruction still got the the nuclear clock to five five seconds I'm sorry five minutes before midnight so you know I'm not sure that that's unfortunately the mindset that works with humanity yeah the problem comes when one party can is discreet and the other one just is not capable of yeah everybody's fault's not as well well sealed as I think they like to believe unfortunately, we all make slips.

None of us are super spies or anything like that, so it becomes hard to not make mistakes, especially the more people you meet along the way. You mentioned your son before and battling with do you tell him, do you not tell him your sexual expression.

Does he ever talk to you about what he learned in school i mean what is the education or the sexual health like in in canada i mean obviously there'd be a difference from when you were growing up versus perhaps what your son has gone through does he share any of that with you oh yeah absolutely i've always had a really open and honest relationship with him and and so, you know, when he was like eight months into his relationship with his girlfriend, I sat him down and said, okay, I don't know if you guys are there yet, but when you get there, you need to make sure you use condoms, so I'm going to give you a bunch of them.

you try them on in your room see which ones fit and I'll go buy you a box and then when you get there you know you need to make sure that the girl's pleasure comes first and don't just stick it in and go to town like that that's not going to be the best experience for anyone and at first he was like oh mom stop but you know the more I just kind of brought it up casually, the more he listened and asked questions. And so, yeah, so we've got a pretty awesome open relationship.

But as far as the education system, Ontario, the province we live in, actually just introduced a couple of years ago, a really progressive new sex ed education, sex ed curriculum curriculum it included talk about consent and about different sexual orientations starting from as early as uh grade one so six years old um just talking to the kids at a you know an age-appropriate level about how your body is yours and only you can touch it and um introducing the idea of homosexuality and transgender people um by third grade and i thought it was amazing but uh the government reached uh recently switched from a liberal to a conservative government and they have pulled that sex ed much to a lot of people's chagrin so it's interesting how you know we we take these forward steps and And then it just takes one, one change of leadership and then everything can go backward.

So, you know, so I've done what I can in my home to make sure things are very open and on the table. And, you know, I talked to my nine year old about you can like boys or you can like girls. You can like two boys or two girls or a boy and a girl. I don't care, I will always love you, I just want you to be happy. Yeah, so I mean, the school system was helping us out with those conversations, and hopefully will again soon. But I make sure to have them in the home frequently. That's amazing. I can't believe that they had that.

And yes, it seems like it's a real shame that that's gone now um because that sounds really really great for people growing up to have those those conversations and as you say it might start with you know some consent and then gradually increase on on what you're discussing with them as their age becomes more appropriate but that sounds like amazing i don't know anywhere else in the world that does that i think the consent side of things is critical in fact c and i had a discussion about this in our private lives just recently around the lack of understanding of children who are put in horrible positions by adults that they have this perception that they don't have the ability to discuss this with the people around them and discuss the fact that something they believe is inappropriate is happening.

And I think the basis of that is the lack of education, that it is inappropriate for you to be in a position that makes you feel uncomfortable, whatever that might be so I think starting that early is actually quite it's quite a good thing and again you know the conservatives or not the idea of talking about the areas of of their body that they're in control of is kind of important you know well not kind of important I think it's critical.

if Kate hadn't have given your son condoms and said here's a bunch try them on where where would he have gone to to get those I mean like do you guys have other condoms readily available at you know perhaps a chemist or a pharmacy chemist is an Australian word sorry a pharmacy or do you have to go to a sexual health clinic? I mean, how would people go about getting access to that? Or are they on, you know, in a convenience store on every second corner? Yeah, they're very easy to find.

But I think making that leap from there are the condoms on the rack to walking up to the checkout counter with the box that you're buying for yourself is a gigantic leap and so i think what kate did was just make that incredibly easy by saying i'm actually going to buy them for you and i talk and we're going to talk about it and it's there's not going to be any shame around this or any sense that a secret has to be kept and so that was the big thing but as far as availability they're very available easy to get a hold of but sometimes i still struggle depending on what country we're in to walk in and buy condoms it's you know it's it's ludicrous that that's the case but i'd still much rather buy my condoms online because i'm a faceless number when i do that yeah well for me i recently found out i'm not the biggest guy in the block but for some reason the magnums fit me better or girth so i was i was the opposite of you i was so anxious to go into a store pick up a box of magnums stroll to the checkout look at look the check a girl in the eye and say, say yeah I'm paying a debit on these and just let her let her imagination run wild he just lay it down face up yeah not one box but three as well he was like yeah that's right oh yeah I'm very busy I'm buying three boxes today I'll be back at the weekend yeah when do you guys restock your shelves yeah when's the truck come in that's hilarious because the last batch of condoms i got online because we can't actually buy the condoms i like here in singapore um okay the last batch i bought was a was a box of 100 condoms yeah oh we buy them in hundreds well i don't know whether you've listened to the podcast where i talk about how many condoms i generally use in a session i'm pretty heavy on the on the usage and that's more around i'm not going to say my stamina it's just more around the fact that i'm safe practice yeah i prefer to be safe in my practice so yeah i mean Even last we probably wouldn't use...

You, like, double bag it, do you? No, not quite. Double bag it. We used to say double bag it with Dankerub in between. I'm not sure if you have Dankerub. But no matter which condom breaks, somebody's stopping, aren't they? I'm going to change gears a little bit because I really want to know from you both. I'm going to ask Mike first because he's spoken less. Mike, do you have a fuck it list and what is next for you? What do you want to experience next? I mean, you guys are hosting parties. You're traveling to Hedo. Obviously, you've had a lot of fun.

Is there anything that springs to mind on what you want to try next? There is one thing, and we've written about this a bit in the blog, and that's my buy side. My buy side is not enormous, but it's not non-existent either, and we have one play partner who we're just edging so slow motion into that. So I'll give you an example. So when so he and I, if we have a threesome with Kate, when one of us is fucking her, the other is rubbing her clit. But if you're rubbing the clit of a woman who's being fucked by another man, you're also kind of coming into contact with his cock.

So someone might say, that's not even bi. That's just incidental engagement.

But it is fucking hotter than hell for me right now so i can't wait till and i think it's just going to move along in its little direction so for me too my sexuality a lot of times it's not about big things so i'm not looking to have a to have seven women at once i'm looking at this tiny little progress we're making in this one area of my sexuality so i don't know if that's a good answer or what you were looking for but no i mean for starters i absolutely understand what you're talking about because last saturday d was fucking a lady and i was rubbing her clit and definitely i was touching his cock so absolutely it was horrible she she hated it I'm sure Kate hates it as well and so I know what you're talking about there but no thank you and you're absolutely right I mean when I started approaching my sexuality to you know I had moments there where little things would progressively happen to the point where I was like yes I want to explore and I want to try and explore that a little bit more and I think as you become more comfortable with people things will naturally progress if everyone's open to that progression and that's something obviously you've got to establish along the way now I mean C's drawn that out of you I'm gonna have to turn around and ask Kate what's your do you have anything on your list I mean it might be as simple as just seeing Mike do what he just explained well yeah I mean that was that would definitely be incredibly hot I'm all into the by mail thing let's see for me okay so that can I say two oh yes go nuts you can say as many as you like okay so one one is probably going to become a reality shortly uh which is i would like to be a unicorn um so there's a situation coming up where we've met a guy who is in an open relationship and his girlfriend is interested in maybe exploring swinging and she wants to start with another girl um so i have volunteered to be that other girl and i think it would be incredibly hot not only to be in the threesome i've done that lots of times but to be the you know the mentor and again the initiator so i guess we both have a bit of a a mentor so yeah so i'd love to be like her first i want to be the her come.

I want to be her, like, her, that first experience story that she tells other people in the future. So I love that idea. And my second one is Peggy. And you've got a third one. I have a third one? Yeah. What? You want to be a party favor. Oh, yeah, I want to be a party favor.

So I'd love to have at one of our parties where we know and trust everyone i'd love to be tied up and blindfolded and just let people do whatever they want to me wow that sounds awesome i like all three of those answers and i'll tell you why the first one your point about being somebody else's story that they tell and possibly the reason that they continue their own sexual growth is both sexy as hell and really, really cool and inspiring. To pegging, absolutely, Dee and I are about to venture down this path soon. Is that right? That is right. Get out of the blue, Dee.

But actually I was Googling a couple of weeks ago about how to peg your partner for the first time, and I sent Dee this article on, it was Tuesday at 10 a.m. or something, and I just sent him the link, and I was like, hey, look at this. And he was like, cool, what?

I feel like two hours ago, we were having a coffee, and now you're seeing me pegging articles, and you're at work, what is going on but then your third one as well the whole idea of yeah having that i guess sensuality of touch and and not being able to understand who it is i mean also sounds sexy as hell and you know i've read about your house parties and and i have obviously i feel like i understand a little bit about how you like to explore in your parties and you just kind of, you know, let whatever comes come, so to speak. You've got to stop it with the inappropriate puns.

I mean, they're just... But yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, by the way, I would immediately buy a novel called The Broken Strap On.

If any of your listeners are writers out there, i just think that's such a promising title and concept anyway let's move on you're actually right that is a great title yeah i can see that i can see the cover art in my mind as well oh yeah visualizing that i might write i'm gonna write that book forget it please we're happy to sign the cover on your behalf before we close out today guys I mean is there anything that you want the listeners to know about Canada from a diversity from a cultural and sexuality perspective well I think Canada is incredibly diverse and it's something that we embrace and celebrate and we, most of us, view as a strength.

So we we welcome immigrants. We love their new perspective. We love their food. You can get any kind of food you want within like a 10 block radius in Toronto. It's like a world tour. It's amazing.

And we just love to have fresh new people bringing fresh new experiences and perspectives and translates to sexuality as well we're very embracing of the LGBTQ I or a yeah we love the whole spectrum and we've got great healthcare care we have free sexual health clinics with free STI testing and contraception and so yeah I think Canada is wonderfully embracing of all kinds of ways of living I was about to say I actually have an office in Canada and I'm thinking about jumping online in about five minutes and checking on the job vacancies yes you should again thank you so much guys for joining us today mike and kate but i i want to allow you guys to tell the listeners about your blog i mean i've read a lot of your articles your house parties obviously your toronto clubs most recently as well and i think you did one on how to take sexy photos you're both photography didn't work for me no couldn't get the lighting right it's amazing I mean we had spotlights pointed at every part of my body and still look weird so can you share with your listeners how they can reach you on your blog where they can look it up and find out more about you know your adventures and and Canada in general yeah the blog is at the monogamishmarriage.com so a little unwieldy but once you get the hang of it it's easy and then it's also worthwhile to follow kate on twitter which is at monogamish one um where we post lots of semi-naked and sometimes fully naked pictures of me and occasionally of mike who is also pretty fucking hot i can attest to that both of those uh both of those uh comments there we had i was listening to a podcast recently one of our one of our lovely friends in the u.s and they're saying how there just doesn't appear to be we haven't found anyone from Canada yet who's unattractive so so I mean yeah it's just shit there's so many reasons I'm so upset at your country right now it has been an absolute pleasure Mike and Kate and we will of course share your blog and your Twitter links on the show notes today.

But thank you for joining us on our exploration of different cultures, countries, and sexual diversity on the Swinging Down on a Podcast. We really appreciate it. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much. Yeah, and thanks for doing what you do, too. We're big fans of your podcast, and so it was a real delight to actually interact. Well, welcome, guys. We are here today with Mike and Kate. What a spectacular voice change. Fuck you, dude. Can you get back out of radio mode for me? And go. Do. Go. We've lost our home connection restarting the modem. Modem down.

MOTOR DE- Although I do like that in 1969 homosexuality was decriminalised just because of the date. Right. I mean, could you do it any better? And by the way, it was just that one position that was decriminalised. For homosexuals. Yes, only for homosexuals.