P67 – Normalizing Non-Monogamy

Transcript

Hi there, my name is C. I'm Dee and you're listening to Swinging Down Under. Our journey is a couple through the swinging lifestyle. Are you into open relationships or exploring new things in life? This is our podcast. Experiences, both good and bad, reviews and events and more here at Swinging Down Under. Come on, join us. Well, g'day everyone and welcome to episode 67 of the Swinging Down Under podcast. This is C here and I'm super excited to give you this introduction.

What you're going to hear soon actually on today's episode is an interview that we completed quite a number of weeks ago, we have been waiting to release this now we are interviewing emma and finn from a brand new podcast and it's a great one it's about ethical non-monogamy as well but i really enjoy what emma and finn have created and that is that they interview each week on wednesdays and release it a new episode and it's about all of the facets of ethical non-monogamy. So they interview great people from all over the world about their experiences and how they approach ethical non-monogamy.

So it's great because in each of these episodes, you can get a feel for how everyone does this differently. You know, there is no one size fits all.

You know, there is no opinion rather that your way is better than my way or my way is the correct way to do it you know so it gives the listener a great opportunity to relate perhaps to some of the things that the interview's discussing but it also gives really an opinion where you can have a conversation perhaps within yourself or have a conversation with your spouse or your friends and say hey this came up on this podcast I loved it I agree with it or hey actually I disagree with it and these are the reasons why and so it gives you that opportunity to have discussions great conversations you know really bringing different opinions and views from all over the world on how different people you know really approach the swinging lifestyle or ethical non-monogamy polyamory whatever it is that those particular people are into and some of their interviews are fantastic because it just goes to show you that the diversity within the lifestyle is is so great that one person's approach to the lifestyle could be so different from somebody else's approach but yet we all have something in common and that's sexual exploration of our own lives and so i really enjoy this because some people that they interview maybe they only play when they go to resorts maybe they didn't play at all they just really want to be around this sexually charged and open atmosphere um some people are soft swap some people are full swap some people are polyamory some people aren't you know it's just such an amazing podcast and so we're extremely excited to have them on today's podcast we would really appreciate if our listeners would go and support them they're fairly new i think they've released about 12 episodes at the time that this podcast will go live and they are emma and finn from normalizing non-monogamy now of course you can find them on the web as well as anywhere that your podcasts are downloaded from as normalizing non-monogamy and they're also on twitter actually so go over there and follow them if you're on twitter and you can get them at their handle at n n m podcast of course the n n m short for normalizing non-monogamy so good job guys there and shortening that and making it a bit better for everybody to search you on so they're a great couple we're really excited to have them in the podcast community and really excited to have them on our podcast so go over and catch up with them and as always please do feel free to reach out to us we can pass along any messages you might have for them or just reach out to us and tell us what you think about your journey and how you approach ethical non-monogamy we'd love to hear from you as always and our email address is cnd at swingingdownunder.com i'll shut up now and i'm going to let this interview now take place but i just wanted to say thanks again emma and finn for joining us and thank you all to our listeners for approaching the lifestyle in your own special way.

We love and appreciate you all. Bye. Okay. Look at that. Perfect. We're also recording. All righty. Bleep, blop, blop. Bleep, blop. All righty. G'day, guys. This is C. And this is Dee. And you started with g'day.

I mean, you're just straight into the aussie-isms i am did you bring your ball and we are here today talking to fin and emma how you doing guys hi hi we're doing great well it's a little early and a little cold here but other than that we're great yeah that whole uh other side of the world situation you know it is amazing we are time travelers officially because it's our evening we're drinking wine life is great yeah you have geese though i mean they're kind of cool except that i'd imagine they shit on everything that's the downside yes yeah they're pretty big birds well, so I'd imagine that it's like big frozen steamers.

They're also loud, so hopefully you don't hear them in the background. If you do, that's just part of the ambiance. Exactly correct. I think you actually owned some geese, didn't you? No, my friend actually owned security geese.

And they used run around and like bite you on the legs it was i'm actually a little bit traumatized can we not talk about that okay let's talk about mowing goats instead all right so we want to talk to finn and emma today about diversity and within ethically non-monogamous relationships it's a really exciting topic We want to cover this because there is such a range of relationships that exist out there. Everybody's different and everybody kind of makes their own rules, right? Well, we certainly do. Yeah, exactly. You know, if you're not making your own rules, you're not having enough fun.

Right, true. So, guys, give us a little bit of information about who you are, kind of where you're based, rough age, rough location, how long you're together, kids, no kids, fur babies, are you wearing pants, you know, critical information like that. So, we're Finn and Emma. I'm 31 and Finn is 30 years old. We live in the Midwest a minute Wait a second Isn't that the wrong way around?

I like what's going on here She's totally slutting it up I am I'm a sugar popper over here I have a soft spot for the older women I suppose He does call me a cougar and i'm only six months older than he is so and i'm not wearing any underpants so that was ahead i skipped ahead i'm sorry yeah so anyway go ahead and finish our intro yeah no we live in the midwest of the states and we are uh we've been married for almost six years together about 13 years wow that's impressive good job guys yeah and our first uh our first ever swinging event was in 2007 so shortly after we got together uh i guess now 11 years ago or so and we were actually living in australia so and we decided to do something a little bit unique and adventurous and decided to go to a meet and greet and it turned out to be an orgy instead of a meet and so we basically just kind of wandered around and checked out the scene and talked to some people and we're kind of voyeurs yeah i think we laid on a bed together and played together a little bit but mostly just kind of took in the scene and and enjoyed the the new adventure yeah i also want to back up just a little bit to answer the rest of c's questions uh we don't have kids and and we don't have any fur babies right now but someday i'd love to have a dog it's just like an end to finish early isn't it yeah i'm all done now so but as you know as finn said we were really young when we got into this.

And we wanted to try swinging and opening up our relationship because we were really excited about seeing what other people were like. But we didn't want to break up. We wanted to stay together because we were having so much fun together. So we decided to, you know, why not explore this at the same time together? That's awesome. And just for the record, also, Emma, I would love a fur baby. So maybe we can like go fur baby shopping one day because that would be the problem. Yeah, just saying. A little bit off track. It just makes traveling a little bit harder. That's the only reason. It does.

Maybe Desire could start allowing the thruple, which includes the fur baby. Yeah. They could play on the beach, and you never know. They might get a little bit funky down there, just in the theme of Desire. Okay, could happen. Yeah, bring home some extra babies. Maybe they could. Although, safe sex first, even for the fur babies, right? That's right, yeah. Do they make doggy doms? Ooh, that's a good name, doggy dom. It's been interesting marketing. I see a new business adventure for you there, Dee. I'm actually just, no, even that's beyond me.

Hey, I'll tell you what, let's talk about non uh animal sex yeah good idea so share with us guys what does being ethically non-monogamous mean to you i mean you said there before you wanted to explore other things but didn't want to break up you wanted to do this as a couple you're enjoying that i mean what does that mean to you to be ethically non-monogamous? So this has actually been something that's been evolving for us over the past 10 years. We said we went to our first party about 10 years ago, but after that, we went to school in a pretty remote location.

So we didn't really do a whole lot for a number of years until we graduated.

And we to a bigger city and we got a little more involved and at that point it was we primarily looked into it from a swinging standpoint we weren't really looking for other long-term romantic partners it was just something we wanted to do together we wanted to meet other couples we kind of wanted to experience the dating world but we wanted to be able to go and do it together because we're both shy and we figured at least we could talk to each other if the other people and we could come home with each other yeah we could come home with each we had that we had that lifeline so um it started off it's nothing like having your wife as a fallback position yeah i know that makes.

That doesn't sound great. It makes her sound great, doesn't it? I'm just kidding, of course. I can see her, folks. It's not a fallback position, just saying. Yeah, so we started off mostly looking for other couples. And from there, we've sort of been through – we've started meeting single people, mostly single men. We've actually never met the elusive unicorn. Also never really looked for it. I know Dee had mentioned his interest in watching sea with other men. I have a very similar draw myself, so I sort of realized this. Yeah, I know, I know.

I realized that when we were broken up and got back together and I was asking her about all the people she'd slept with, which was like two. I was going to say, it wasn't that many. But for me, I was like, well, give me, I want more details.

And I realized at that point that that was probably not normal and we'd have to figure something out so and so you yeah go ahead you wanted to join and like uh you know flirt and you're both a bit shy out of curiosity who has become the master flirter what's uh the dynamic between your relationship who's kind of grown and become like the super The awesome, yeah i don't know if either of us have mastered that we we try but it it always uh we're not the best at it we literally have to give ourselves like a pep talk before we go to like a party to be like okay tonight we're going to talk to like four couples and we're going to be super outgoing and we're not going to sit in the corner and then we do it anyway and we just sit there and no we talked like a sales networking event where you you say i'm going to give out 15 cards at least tonight yeah yeah like that it's exactly like that you need cards you need more cards just go there and treat it as a networking event we yeah i think and i think part of that has been us learning over the years that our our the environment that we thrive in is not a party it's a smaller more intimate setting where we can actually talk to people it allows us to get to know them and find out who we're comfortable with without having to try and grind up on them on a dance floor and hope that everybody's wants and needs a line after you've already started making out with somebody it's it's never really worked for us yeah yeah we have the same problem we want to talk to people as well it's really annoying it'd be a lot easier if you could just walk into a room and point you know yeah that that couple i'll take that couple and and it and it works for some people right i mean we've seen it work for people they come in just start dancing, and they dance with another couple for like 30 seconds, and then they're making out, and then all of a sudden they're gone.

And you're like, well, shit, that looked easy. But, I mean, you don't know what happens after that, but it looks so easy from our perspective in the corner. We're not always in the corner.

Sometimes we're just different corners left of the corner so yeah well that's a it's a really good point though what you're saying about you know it works for other people you know you talk about another play style um i mean it's a good topic of what what is something diverse i think with within your relationship or your play style or your lifestyle kind of ethos what would you share with people out there to explain your interaction and what you guys do what you like and how you kind of work within the lifestyle she's trying to say very politely ask the question what makes you odd well everyone's a little bit odd so i think that's a compliment oh yeah absolutely that's that's exactly how i meant it i'm the oddest person in this four four-way conversation right now you're something no doubt yeah i i guess i would i'll start with this one and let maybe i'm gonna take over but one thing that you see a lot in people's profiles and you hear them say is we're really trying to make friends and go from there.

We want friends first and if it leads to more, that's great.

And we really are those people and we see a lot of those people that say that we try to be friends with them and maybe we're just not their type of friend but we found that it's not as common as it seems like it is people say oh we're trying to find friends with benefits and then they they don't want to be friends with you if someone's on their period or if you if it's not going to work that night to play they they don't actually want to be your friend it's so for us it's really like we try to develop a friendship and if something else develops after that that's great if not that's great too we we like open-minded friends that was always our goal getting into this was making new friends because we moved locations a few times and we were always trying to restart our friend group, and we figured, well, why not start it with sexy friends?

Yeah, I'd say that's definitely the way we have always approached non-monogamy together, but I think another, I guess, aspect about our relationship that's maybe a little bit different from other people that have traditionally tried swinging would be we did start when we were very young and we were 19 and 20 years old when we went to that first party in Australia and that is really young rock on guys and you know we definitely had you know we didn't do very much in college and we definitely had our you know growing pains throughout college and a little bit afterwards but um you know then we got into it more once we were more established in in our relationship and i think that navigating the swinging lifestyle in your mid-20s is a lot different than um you know i I guess I haven't experienced it in my 40s and 50s yet.

But from our experience, it can be different because, you know, we're in a stage of life where most of our peers are out dating or trying to work on their relationship.

And we had a strong foundation and we wanted to go out and explore others and a lot of our peers weren't necessarily in that same stage of life yeah yeah we've kind of had the experience of being able to to grow through 10 years of this and see what it's like to be 20 and 25 and and now 30 and so that's that's always been kind of a interesting thing for us to watch and see the progression and who comes in and out and who we start to attract and different groups and that's yeah kind of fun we enjoy meeting people of all ages so that's something that we have not limited ourselves on very much at all and if you seem like a really interesting person and somebody we get along with it doesn't matter what your age is hence why i was able to marry emma when she's six months old i'm glad you could see past all of her faults and you know gray hairs and wrinkles i mean exactly you know you know it's hilarious it's uh i just said to see a couple of days ago or maybe a week ago that she will soon be the same age as what i was when we first met which is actually 10 years ago so it's kind of interesting i'm currently going through a midlife crisis of 33.

Oh my fucking lord aren't you? Yeah look at the red dress she's wearing. She's in a Ferrari parked outside. I like the red. Yeah it's very nice. Thank you. I have two I have two comments for them. One we'll be your fucking friends because I tell you. Yeah and we'll happily just like be friends that's all we're looking for.

We feel the same way you know we find a lot of people and they say we'd love to be friends we don't have kids we don't have fair babies we travel a lot so for us relationships are key but we also put a lot of effort into the relationships that we kind of form uh you know we will travel to see people we will spend some time we'll send them random text messages come over for wine come over for cheese or we're going to uh we did one of those escape rooms one day or we're going to wine tasting or whatever and we find it revolves around alcohol admittedly fat people trapped in people's bodies but what we found i guess especially between our age brackets is that now for us i mean you spoke about kind of swinging in your early 20s mid 20s and 80s we're finding that a lot of the people we're trying to make connections with are just starting families and so for them their time is kind of sucked into this vortex of family time and then trying to balance work which is how it should which is fairly sweet completely yeah absolutely yeah but then you've got work you've got your own relationship with foster and then you then trying to balance work.

Which is how it should be, family speaking. Oh, completely. Absolutely, yeah. But then you've got work, you've got your own relation to foster and then you're trying to throw and swinging into the mix. And so we find it a little bit difficult to get people to kind of commit more spontaneously to time spent fostering that relationship. So it's probably one of our things. That's my first thing. And my second question is have you ever – That wasn't a question.

Sorry, my first thing and my second question is have you that wasn't a question sorry my first point we're friends with you my uh please be our friends is that too much oh my god please don't reject me again drinks my wine um and my second thing is that have you guys throughout this course of trying to find friends and build relationships, have you ever thought about polyamory? Has that ever come up or have you ever made a connection that's kind of a little bit deeper than maybe just friends with benefits starting to form a deeper relationship? Yeah.

Well, let me, if you don't mind, if I go back and comment on your first point real quick um point about really putting effort into the friendships and i think that's something that came up uh the other day which for us it's been coming up is when we become friends with people we put a lot of effort into those friendships just like you guys said you do and we sort of expect the same thing out of friends in the lifestyle as we do in normal life and if you're not willing to be we don't want to always be the ones who have to ask you to spend time with us we want it we want it to be a two-way street otherwise we feel annoying and naggy and like you don't actually want to be our friend, right?

So that's the first point. The second one is what you said about people focusing on their families. Again, we agree with that. And we've seen another level of pressure come from that, too, which is, hey, we only get out one weekend a month. Oh, yeah.

We're free this Friday, so let's get together get together but if we do we'd really like to make sure that we're gonna play because we don't get to do it very often yeah and that puts a lot of pressure on somebody who's like well i don't know you look attractive in your pictures and you seem like we could be friends but who knows what's going to happen when we show up and yeah i understand their point of. I get it.

But, you know, we don't have small kids, but I can, we have friends with small kids and I can, I can see where that is coming from, but it's, it makes it hard from the other end too. Yeah. We've, we've been through similar things as well. You know, like we're only out once every three weeks.

So we want it to be a play session and it yeah it makes it very tough because that's that expectation going in that can either taint a night you know like you you go in maybe not feeling exactly like you would like to do that and then it taints the evening which can be expectations are never great right like we just went on a date last friday night i had a terrible day at work um but i but i rallied so you did you drank two bottles of wine that was i rallied by drinking wine um but you may have that where it's like okay you've been setting up this date for six weeks that day comes five months in this case.

Yep. And you're not kind of feeling it. You want to engage. You want to be out. You want to have people around you have a fun time to distract you from whatever the stresses are, but not necessarily have that expectation. But it very well could well go to play, right? In this case, it didn't, but the guy was a legend. Yeah, he's awesome. Yeah. Right. So maybe back to your deeper question about visiting polyamory, this is something that we've talked about on and off, and we were actually just diving into this ourselves the last week or so, and part of it is we haven't really sought that out.

I think a big factor is we've never really been super happy where we are in life in terms of our jobs and our location. Within the last handful of years. Yeah. And it's not that we aren't happy with each other. We're just not happy where we are. And so we're taking some major steps to change that. But because of that, all of our time and energy has been focused 100% on making this happen.

And when we do decide we're going to relax and let down our guard and go do something, we just want to do it together because we haven't even taken the time to relax together outside of this sometimes and so it just we haven't had the the emotional bandwidth to be able to handle something like that and it's yeah it's not something that we would be opposed to in the future I think it's if if we're in a different stage of life and and it makes sense then we'll have that conversation um or if one of us meets someone and it happens organically we'll we're open to that conversation but it's not something we're sticking out at the moment awesome yeah it makes sense so i don't think i mean we've discussed not being polyamorous but I don't think we've ever been put in a situation where we had to really think about it you know like i think we like to say we don't really rule anything out we don't really have any rules we're not polyamorous and we're certainly not seeking to head that way but i think it'd be really interesting to see what would happen if we ended up in a situation where it was almost forced upon us yeah i mean and and we may react by running away from that that might be the simple reaction i think for us just thinking about relationships and friendships and they kind of go into that deeper element you know we've spoken about that a little bit on the podcast too is that it was kind of a shock to us that all of a sudden you've got these relationships that are deeper than friendships you legitimately care about these people you worry about their well-being you would help them you want to be there for their achievements and help them through their struggles yeah you feed them opioids when they're feeling bad exactly and or you steal their opioids when you're feeling bad you know i mean it's like swapping lingerie is exactly correct yeah yeah and we have some of those friends um that someone in their family is sick or or having surgery we'll go over and make them dinner and you know we we have some very deep friendships like that both in the lifestyle and without but yeah in and out but i mean i guess for us we were actually talking about this the other day too what what is the difference between that and being in a poly relationship yeah i mean and and we sort of decided like why do we need to put a label on it?

I mean, if we're if we're happy and everybody gets along and we're having a great relationship, who cares what what the damn title is on the thing? Yeah, that's exactly why I just discussed what we what I did, because I think some of our relationships that we're in now with other couples have the potential to grow into a four-way, strong, loving-style relationship. But does that mean we're poly? Well, who knows? Yeah. You know, if you play with one's same-sex partner, does that make you gay is the same sort of question. Right.

It just comes down to what you decide fits for you i liked it i was i was choose your own path i think is the point here yes you're swimming in the deep end again d yeah i know i need to get my unicorn paddling you do sticks back on uh now i'm gonna ask i'm gonna ask you a question here thinking because you guys have been in lifestyle for a while now i'm not going to talk about how the lifestyle's changed i mean i think that's definitely interesting maybe you guys can talk about that later but in terms of advice what advice would you give to people about what being ethically non-monogamous means and what being diverse means i mean if you're going to just talk to anyone out there in the universe what would you want to tell them about that universe we're going out to the universe now i mean there's some weird podcast out there 12 penis aliens talking to their 12 wives about how they should get another 12 wives so they can get a double blow job if that's the case then i want to be the condom supplier just saying yeah get them in bulk save yourself a couple of pennies yeah um as far as advice goes i would say a couple different things uh one is don't ever be afraid to get yourself out of a situation.

Uh, I think that's a big one we've learned over and over again. And, and I can't stress it enough. You, you don't need to be rude about it. You can, you can talk to people and just be polite, but don't be afraid to get yourself out of something that doesn't feel right.

No matter what that is, if it's an awkward conversation or, uh, something, anything you're not not comfortable with just don't be afraid to do that and this gets exponentially harder when everybody's naked yeah and this is something that that we struggle with early on and we still struggle with is everything seems great and then everyone's clothes come off and then all of a sudden there's something wrong and you're like well shit i don't want to be here anymore but i don't want to be the one who reigns on the parade and you have to be able to do that there's nothing worse than being the smallest guy in the room no just kidding of course so yeah i think being able to pull that ripcord and say you know what we need to i need to need to go talk to my partner.

We're just going to step out for a minute. And then from there, figure out how to come at it as a team, because that's part of having a support system in the room with you is you can do these things together. You're not alone. So you're just going to blame her. Is that the guy? Yeah, exactly. So my fault, guys. Emma wants to leave. Real sorry. I was totally in the moment. She just got a spontaneous period. Yeah, I was going to say that exact same thing. Which would be a surprise because it's been nine and a half years. Yeah, no, it hasn't.

You like to say that, but you forget some of the spontaneous, messy events along the way. That's true. Yeah.

Happens to the best of us yeah absolutely so i forgot entirely what i was going to say so let's just move on yeah so i mean it was it was about the same amount of intelligence i normally add the other one that that i wanted to add in sorry to interrupt there um was be open to trying new things and but also give yourself the flexibility to make a mistake while you're trying those things so it may not go right the first time or or your partner may do something that seems like it maybe broke a rule or pushed a boundary, but give them the flexibility to make those mistakes because you're going to make one soon and it wasn't malicious.

It wasn't intentional. You're navigating in waters that you've never been in and that very few people have been in.

And so you have to allow each other the room to screw up and then come back together and recalibrate and say hey I didn't like that when you did that let's not do that and just talk about it and don't don't fly off the handle because somebody did something that was a little bit out of your comfort zone yeah I would say that even if expanding on that a little bit with the communication, you know, I know most people in the lifestyle stress communication and that's something that you have to do, but I think having those hard conversations, like if someone did cross a boundary or screw up or made a mistake, being able to have that conversation and approach your partner, but also being the other person, being able to listen to it and take that in and not react angrily necessarily.

If you can talk through it, that's a skill that we're still working on. And I think a lot of people are, but it's important. You need to at least be able to have that conversation. Anyone in a relationship ever still working on that? Exactly. Well, for me, I've kind of found, and I'm generally a reason, I'm going to blow wind up my own ass here, but I'm generally a reasonably witty. It's my shocked face. Yeah, generally a reasonably witty type individual.

But along with that comes a mind that sometimes doesn't have a filter between the mouth so i've found for me just that the ability to stop and you know actually take the time to generate the thought is is something that's helped me a lot not just generate it but articulate it to your partner i mean your partner doesn't live in your head so yeah you might be thinking it and it sounds very, you know, neutral in your head and it sounds really adulting and, you know, great for your partner and then it spews out and they hear it in a very accusing way or, you know, aggressive way or whatever.

And so I think it's pausing to think about what you're going to say and then I think it's articulating it correctly. Yes, precision of language is very important when you're in the midst of a fight. Thank you. it's pausing to think about what you're going to say, and then I think it's articulating it correctly. Yes, precision of language is very important when you're in the midst of a fight. That's very true. Yes. I am shit at that. Precision of language. I'm shit at that too. It's your fault. Oh, wait. I mean, it's my fault. Actually, I don't know whose fault it is. It's everybody's fault.

All right. Except ours, because we're awesome. Yeah, give me some. All right, guys, last piece. If people want to contact you, if they want to talk to you more about your experiences in Australia, back in the States, what's coming up for you, tell us how they can talk to you. Or buy your used underwear. Yeah.

I've been trying to get, I'm going to sell her underwear for months and she won't do it it's mostly in jest but if she said yes I would definitely go fund me forward slash emma sells underpants how can people contact you guys just follow them as underpantsma's underpants.com i mean it sells itself yeah thanks yeah well i will jump into that i wanted to i wanted to add one more piece of advice and and feel free to insert this wherever you want sorry um you are a cd yeah this is actually no that's that's actually a precision of language scenario right there feel free to insert this wherever you like this this was actually a bit of advice we got uh from one of the one of the people we interviewed for our podcast just a couple weeks ago was everybody's sexuality is so different that you have to be aware that you might not be somebody's flavor and not to take that negatively but also that you might find people that you click with way better than even maybe your own partner or that the thing that you're doing for one person is not the same for another it's just that everyone's sexuality is so fluid that don't be put off because somebody doesn't click with you right away that that you there's just so many different people out there and now we're gonna have to delete this because i've rambled but not at all no that'll stay in for sure um absolutely i mean i can other people compliment things that maybe you're seeking out.

You know, look, I have, D doesn't like my shitty arcade games. He hates them. Whoa. Big call. Come on. I mean, I just can't understand. You've got an Atari 2600 there and you've got an Oculus Rift VR system and you're reaching for for the atari 2600 so you can play fucking pac-man so my point is like pac-man live like you can be the pack run around the room that's actually not funny can i actually do that yeah of course don't lie i'm not lying you can buy pac-man that's fully awesome know. You're in on the Pac-Man now, aren't you? Nom. I think that you compliment.

I mean, why should it be any different that I might find a friend that loves playing Pac-Man because D doesn't? Yeah, or blowjobs. There's no difference. So sexually, people want to explore things. They want to do something different. Can I say I am not interested in a Pac-Man blowjob. Nobody's eaten my ghost. Okay. They can swallow the ghost but no eating it. But you can then kind of complement that by having different relationships, different experiences. Everybody else can kind of add a different flavor. So I agree with that. I think it's good advice. Yeah, me too.

Certainly there's a whole lot of people out there that despise me. So, you know, I've got to find the balance, the quirky balance. I hide the hate mail from you. Wow. Sometimes. I read him one the other day and he was like, what the shit? No, I wasn't. My response was actually a bit more like, eh. No, were like who is that person yeah anyway whatever so good advice but where can people contact you guys if they want to hear more learn more how can they get in contact yeah so i'll let emma oh yeah so we're starting a new podcast uh it's called normal Non-Monogamy.

So you can find us at our website at normalizingnonmonogamy.com. Or if you're spelling challenge like us, you could also type in nnmpodcast.com. But the basis for our podcast is to interview couples or triads or singles or anybody interested in non-monogamy and have them tell us their story, how they got into it, why they got into it, how it's impacted their relationship. That's the basis of our podcast. Yeah, and it's definitely not focused on the sex aspect of it. I mean, it's going to come up. It's going to happen.

And there's going to be stories, but we really want to hear more about all the sex aspect of it i mean it's going to come up it's going to happen there's going to be stories but we really want to hear more about all the different types of dynamics and we've we've done some interviews with straight couples with there's been a couple where she's a lesbian and he's straight and they're married and it's just so many different dynamics that we're trying to put out in the world so that would be one way to find us or on twitter it's I think that's a good question.

And it's just so many different dynamics that we're trying to put out in the world. So that would be one way to find us or on Twitter. It's at NNM podcast. Yeah. And we launch May 2nd. I just realized whenever you put this out. So we've either already launched or we will be launching depending on when this goes live. So, yeah. Excellent.

So if people want to hear more about diversity and lifestyle relationships, they can just start listening to you guys and they'll get that as you launch and interview different people right yep and if they want to come on reach out to us we're happy to talk to anybody yes yeah the show won't work without people i really want to talk about how much i masturbate it's like you want to put sex on their show.ogamy is that what you want to do sex is okay but it can't be the focus well no i mean i'm i'm never my own focus when i'm masturbating and with that uh like emma fin normalizing non-monogamy thanks for uh coming on our show thank you for trying to normal normalize our podcast oh yeah you failed epic we're counting on you guys to make it sound awesome what the hell happened yeah i don't know i think you sound pretty awesome without us yeah well no and thank you and thank you guys for having us on and taking the time to talk with us we really appreciate it yeah thank you no problem thanks guys all right bye you don't want to get a goodbye from them both no you can delete my bye no your bye was good it wasn't forced or anything