P64 – We discuss Solo Swingers Play {raw, unedited}

Transcript

Hi there, my name is C. I'm D, and you're listening to Swinging Down Under. Our journey is a couple through the swinging lifestyle. Are you into open relationships? Or exploring new things in life? This is our podcast. Experiences, both good and bad, reviews and events, and more here at Swinging Down Under. Come on, join us. This is C. And this is Dee. And this is Swinging Down Under. G'day, everyone. Thank you very much for tuning in to our next episode. This is going to be an interesting one. What's the episode number? The episode number is episode number 64.

Whoa, you didn't even need to look it up. Creeping out. I actually just checked, but thank you for asking, Dee. Oh, no problem. I mean, I like to keep everybody up to date with what episode we're up to. I'm glad that you're on board with that now. Yeah, totally. Thank you very much. Totally on board. So today's episode, we spoke about it last time. We gave you a bit of a teaser. This is going to be an interesting one because we are going to have a discussion on the possibility of some solo play. I like to think that all of our podcasts are interesting. That is accurate.

I mean, it's always like, hey, we've got a brand new, happy, exciting episode for you today. But, well, some of them are great and some of them probably not so great. Oh, really? Okay. Well, I mean, I disagree. I think all... It depends on who you ask, I suppose. Well, certainly I believe all of my side of the podcasting is just amazeballs. I'm absolutely glad that you think that. Yeah. I'm glad to hear. So what we're going to talk about today is solo play. Solo play is what in your mind, Dee? How would you explain that to our listeners? Solo play is... Because it's not masturbation.

It can be, but not in this case. No.

No, masturbation is masturbation solo players solo play solo play uh the ability for one of the partners to play with somebody else either a single or another couple for an event or either at location or away depending on which which is going they might they might be yeah you might solo you might play solo in the same household just in different rooms i think i'd call that solo play as well that's that's my definition i'm sure the world may or may not disagree well the i guess what you're trying to say there is there is even a spectrum within this so what we are talking about is is playing in separate situations where one of us is not there yes solo yeah on our own so what we're going to do is we're going to discuss that today d has brought some thoughts in his mind if you heard the last podcast you know what i'm talking about they're right in my mind they're in his mind i have written some thoughts down um which is not in your mind which is not in my mind so what we're going to do is go through mine doesn't make papery noises when i pick it up on the podcast though mine won't either i'll be quiet as a mouse yeah as a mouse ruffling papers yeah well the new microphones are actually quite picky so they pick up a lot of stuff boodum ta-ta why why the boodum because it was a funny it was a can see that microphones are picky, they pick up a lot of noise, ba-dooms.

Oh, wow. Okay. Well, I mean, that's how we're starting? That's how we're going. That's how we're taking off. Okay. So everybody brace yourself for a very funny podcaster. Yeah. Okay. So we have spoken about this on and off for the past four years, and I'm not going to lie, but not in a lot of depth.

And what I mean by that is we haven't really uh explored our own thoughts on the matter or shared them necessarily with our partner we've kind of discussed it in more of a what if or um i would say fantasy based uh based scenario but never in a world this could actually happen properly and how do we feel about it what is on or off limits what are some boundaries some rules when could it possibly occur what do i feel about what does d feel about and then kind of coming together as a conclusion right yeah i wouldn't say i mean we've had yeah bits and pieces over the years of i mean well you've said to me in the past if i went down to sydney and i visited our friends the belays that you know you wouldn't really have any concerns about it but we never went into detail and so that's what we're trying to do today is we're trying to understand how each other feels about this and then really understand what requirements if any what boundaries if any and then kind of come to some sort of an understanding on and progress forward with the possibility of solo play or not also so to start everybody off d maybe you can um explain a little bit about what some of your basic thoughts are and then we'll kind of start to talk about some of the i mean i'm pretty sure you've got notes i do but you bought your thoughts in your mind you see so they're easy easily accessible to you because they're in your mind ah gotcha okay so i mean can you ask me what i need to what i need to start with here again i mean i'm a give me give me a thought that pops into your head about uh the possibility of solo play between us in our relationship not necessarily pointing out that it could be me it could be you but tell me about your thoughts just generally on solo play within our relationship well i suppose that for that for me there's a concern on my side because we've never played with a single lady even to understand the back end of that, I suppose.

So if we were looking at me toward a solo play scenario, then I think we might be missing a step. you think it would have i wasn't talking about me specifically you specifically whether it would be a single whether it be a couple i'm talking about any impact that this may have if any positive or negative on us as a couple on us as a relationship because we came and let me let me give you some thoughts then we came into this lifestyle as it being a couple's journey. So the possibility of it now being a solo journey, what do you think about that?

Well, I don't believe that it is a solo journey at all. I think it's still a couple journey. It's just that we've chosen to do it in a different manner. I suppose there's that paper that I was talking talking about I suppose that I kind of feel like you're saying that this is not a couple thing that it can't be a couple event still solo play can't be a couple event and I don't agree with that I think that you can still be involved as a couple it's just a different level of involvement and potentially a different scenario in terms of how you're engaged with that involvement.

I mean, for example, let's just say that I'm involved in solo play and I set up a, let's not say a camera, but a mobile phone with a video stream that you can watch. You know, that's still, of of course with permission from the other person as well but or other people but that can be also still an engagement scenario yeah so i guess that's some of the things i wanted to talk to you about today you know if there was and i would classify that as a boundary that you're fine with solo play but a boundary might be that you expect that you're engaged. Yeah. And that could be one of the requirements.

So that's kind of what I was lending to or hoping to achieve from today's discussion. I'm happy to just rattle off from the beginning. Okay, what do I think the potential concerns or impacts are on our relationship? I think, I mean, most of those are reasonably obvious for anyone who's put their relationship in any form of dangerous situation. It can be a very dangerous scenario if we both don't have an understanding of what we want to get out of this and what we don't want to get out of this, what we are concerned about.

I'm certainly there's concerns that i have but i don't but again they're probably when we get into the play side of things not this early in the conversation as you want to step through it all right well since you that's what you think let me just go through my pros and cons and then you can feel can't feel free to comment when you think it's appropriate does that work uh yeah i mean i don't necessarily yes okay so yes as i just said before one of the thoughts in my mind is that we join the lifestyle to do this together and that possibly solo play may be stepping away from that perception that it is about us together as a couple and it could later down the path turn into a very uh separate separate endeavor and what mean by that is that there are a lot of podcasts, a lot of forum articles, blog posts where people do talk about the progression.

And we've spoken about this in terms of soft swap to full swap, but then also there's this idea that the progression is going to be full swap to then solo play, solo play to separate partners, separate partners, and then possibly ending in your relationship crumbling essentially. So I've read a lot about it and, I mean, that's definitely something that concerns me, you know. Well, could this possibly then lead to very much a we're doing this because we're doing it separately in the end?

And how do you you stop that the first bit of that has to be the definition of true solo play for us as a couple and and whether we define boundaries and limits and and hard rules that prevent this from it becoming purely a solo activity as we see it and don't don't get us wrong anyone out there listening because obviously that we we know people that do play separately uh completely don't have to um seek any kind of approval from their partner and um and what i mean by that is not that you know hey i'm out with this person you know do i to go and sleep with them?

It's more of a, they just go and do it and then later they may or may not even have a conversation about it with their partner. You know, there are couples out there like that and it works for them and there's absolutely no judgment. Good for them that they've come up to that understanding. I think we just need to put an overarching caveat on this conversation.

This is our conversation in our relationship uh if if you don't or do believe in part of this on the way through then uh yeah that's your right it's your right to it's your right to disagree and it's your right to change the channel if you don't agree with what we're saying that's fair enough yeah it's a good blanket blanket uh recommendation um so that's i guess one of my concerns um you know about that whole well's the next step? What is the idea of the next step? And what about issues that I've personally heard about?

I suppose the question I'll pose to you here, though, is why do you consider this a next step? I'm just saying that that's what I've read about. I know what you've read about, but I'm asking you what your opinion is.

Because in in my head it is when we started the lifestyle we did this together now we're looking at possibly doing a separate but as you've said there's a caveat on what is the definition of separate you know um i would in my head even after this conversation if we do agree to do solo play i would never imagine a point at this point in time in our relationship where we would perhaps go out on a friday night for some drinks and then end up coming home you know saturday 8 a.m kind of having stayed at someone's house that you weren't aware of uh or me aware of i'd no certainly without certainly not without that being an understood and possibly possible fantasy for one of the others um i would never see that being the case for me um for me doing that well for starters the the idea of a male going out on a friday night and picking up and bringing somebody home that night is fairly unrealistic i mean that's something that's going to take a few attempts to even get to the point where that could even occur so and i know well to my knowledge that's not one of your fantasies either for me to go out and pick up somebody so why would i ever try to achieve that because the only reason i'd be doing that would be for it to be one of your fantasies so that's that's my next uh my next point is uh you know tit for tat so for example does solo play then mean and you touched on it you've touched on it twice now since we started this conversation and it's you being with a unicorn now many people out there who listen to us regularly might know that we have been in threesomes with another single man but we have not had a threesome with another single lady or aka a unicorn in the lifestyle so i guess one of my points here is does this then or could this potentially become one of those tit-for-tat scenarios and where perhaps one of us goes off and and conducts uh you know some some solo play and then the other one thinks that they may be missing out and that they should have their unicorn or should have their solo play themselves um and could that then possibly create some some issues whereby you know well you've gone off and done it now so I better go off and get Well, I mean, that's a really glass is half empty way of looking at it, I suppose.

Well, I'm sharing with you my... Yeah, yeah, I understand. I'm just, I'm still allowed to offer the opinion that I think that's a glass is half empty scenario. I don't understand why you would be looking at that as a potential concern without us even discussing it up front. I mean, I don't know that I've ever put forward or we've ever discussed even me playing with the unicorn or us playing with the unicorn. We've discussed it, I think. But it's been discussed less than what we're discussing this right now. Yeah, I don't mean there's been any drive towards it. No, there's no drive toward it.

and that's because it's been discussed less than what we're discussing this right now. Yeah, I don't mean there's been any drive towards it. No, there's no drive toward it. And that's because very simply, I think, for me, it's not really of particular interest.

You know, I don't – initially when we came into this lifestyle and I've fairly well described this, I actually thought that that was was my fantasy and then very quickly after being with our first couple which was more of a more of a female me and me and her together while you were watching with him I didn't really I mean I enjoyed it don't get me wrong but I didn't enjoy that as much as what I do when we play with a single guy. So I think my focus or my most interesting aspect is when we're either playing with couples, that's number one certainly for me, and number two would be single guy.

Well, I suppose you could almost say we have been actually with unicorns in a number of times.

want to know why i think that because there's been a number of times when the men aren't interested in playing with you yeah or have performance issues and so i think there's actually you could almost put those down to i'm going to say half unicorn scenarios no because you're not engaged with them as well i have been i have in a lot of cases yeah because they're not very small minority of cases you're involved as well because either they're not bisexual or i'm not interested in them in that way like in in actually oh you're not interested in them in them bisexual yes yeah yeah i think that's a very um very poignant differential differential there yeah well yeah But yeah,'m not so so if that's be if that is the case then i suppose we've been there we've if you want to think of it that way i don't i don't have really an interest in that my my excitement the please understand again my excitement the majority of it or the most exciting sessions of sex we've had have been either with a couple or a single guy.

The stuff that we have with, if you want to look at it that way as single ladies or as ladies who can perform while the guy can't, they're probably some of my worst. Because I have concern that you're not having fun. So that destroys any sort of fun on my side. It's now more of an action for me than it is an actual scenario where I'm really into this.

For me, if we're both really into it and we're both really excited by it then i'm really excited by it but if you're not into it then i'm not i'm not excited either so it doesn't make sense from for us i mean coming back to your tit for tat there's never been tit for tat when it comes to a single lady being involved in our relationship or in our bedroom relationship so i don't understand why there would be why would we include tit for tat when we're talking about solo play and just on that actually you know what do you reckon there's actually tattoos for tits which go towards breast cancer fundraising i mean i know i'm just that's a random thought right now but when you say tat, what about tat for tit?

Do you reckon that's actually out there? For cancer, breast cancer fundraising? It should be. You sell tattoos for tits. Yeah. Off you go. Making money for cancer. Yeah. Then all you need to do is get everybody to expose their breasts on Facebook and Twitter like they do for other things, which I think might be the problem. I actually wonder if we can do that.

I wonder if get some tattoos and somehow let's let's pause let's let's think about that d okay all right good you think about that i'll think about current subject all right good um okay so another thing that i was thinking about is a possible uh concerning fact would be a possible regret post-play now that's not something that you couldn't um you couldn't encounter in any anything that you do in in life in career in whatever friendships sex you know i guess that's but it is something like what happens i mean once you open that floodgate once you experience that that thing there is no taking it back you know what what if and there is always a possibility of what if you walk away from it and you think gee i wish I wish I hadn't gone down that path.

I regret that. I suppose it's the same as hitting yourself on the thumb with a hammer. Ouch. I'm not going to do that again. Yeah. You know, like to me it's a very simple scenario. For us, we've been already through a number of jealousy curves, you know, on both sides.

Both of us have been jealous at some point and we've simply worked through those as you know as as I think our relationship is founded on a mutual trust and respect so for me that's not a not a big concern because I think if we have an issue it's not going to be a relationship ending issue it's going to be a let's have a discussion about this and work through it and whether that means us working through it together or us going to see somebody and actually working it through it through it with a professional whatever it takes i mean this relationship is worth more to me than just a potential failure of something that we've done along the way so i don't i don't see that being a problem unless you're not willing to take the same steps as what i am in terms of i'll do anything to keep our relationship together provided our relationships still a positive influence on our life on our life i mean again if i become such a burden on you that i'm not a positive influence in your life anymore than i fully expect and urge you to walk away from me because you should be doing better you deserve better than a bad life you know like anybody i believe everybody deserves a happy healthy and fun life and if you're not achieving that because of the people that you're around then you need to change those people that's very deep thank you d well i mean i like to occasionally swim in the paddle around in the deep end of the pool just to do you have little floaties on when you do that yeah of course i mean it's a deep end right okay just checking like are they rubber ducky i mean that's no floaties.

Well, generally, I'm actually in a unicorn ring, you know, like a floaty ring. That's cool. Yeah. And I wear a little unicorn hat with a horn on it. Do you throw glitter around? Occasionally, I fart glitter. Oh, you fart glitter. That's good. How do you get it up there to begin with? A glitter bomb. You can buy them on eBay. Glitter bombs. They're actually designed for vaginas, but they work for us. Yeah, I've seen those. I'm not a fan of what's going on there. Yeah, geez, there's a surprise. I just think that that's all sorts of vaginal. You ever tried to get glitter out of your house?

That's very true. You imagine you need a pressure cleaner in 14 days to get it out of a vagina, I think. I'm just also thinking about the possible. Glitter bomb. Yeah. Okay, so okay so that's I mean the way that I've kind of had it in my head to today's discussion was to talk about some of the things that are possible cons well in your head or on paper on paper but they came from my head um I put them from my head and moved them to the paper and then talk about possible pros and then maybe talk about some requirements guidelines guidelines, boundaries, rules, whatever you want to call it.

That's how I thought. I'm really enjoying you channeling your inner Italian right now. Yeah, I'm using my hands a lot. You are gesturing. You know that people on the other end of this podcast cannot see the amount of gesturing that you're putting in there. I mean, you're really in there. I actually smacked somebody in the head the other day. They were walking past and I was talking to somebody and I got very vigorous with my hand movements and I hit them in the head. Yeah oh well it's their fault for walking right?

I feel like it's 50-50 there's there's both yeah I know both parties well I mean look if they weren't there if we work on the insurance way if they weren't there the accident would never have happened. Correct and if there wasn't such delicious wine I wouldn't have had such vigorous hand gestures. Because of the amount of delicious wine consumed. Exactly. So really, it's actually the pub's fault. It is, actually, because if the pub weren't there, neither of you would be there. You wouldn't be drunk. Problem solved. Yeah. Okay. So should we sue or did you hurt a knuckle? No. Okay. Okay.

So that's my areas for potential concerns. Do you have any? Because you've brought so many thoughts in your minds. Yeah, I've got a number of – I only have one mind. It's not a mind. It's just one. You've only got one? Yeah. Lame. Well, I mean, this is the difference between me and you, and I'm going to say, you know, given that you are a little female, there's generally more than one mind in there to trip around. No, I just move on the fact that maybe split personalities have multiple minds and therefore I'm actually just deliciously, you know, amazing at everything.

Yeah, I mean, I don't disagree with that at all, ever. You see? Please don't kill me. That's why I have multiple minds. Yeah. I find you and I kill you. So my concerns, my concerns are. For starters, I'm concerned that you're going to flip the fuck out in the middle.

So if you're involved in a solo play session, I have a concern that halfway through or once you get past a point where you believe you're now doing the'm doing the uh air quotes air quotes here the point of cheating that you will just fucking flip out right and i'm really concerned about that for you and mostly you but i'm also concerned because the other people that are involved or other person who's involved in this i don't know that they deserve that either you know like i i the please understand the vast majority of the concern is for you but you're now also adding somebody else's life into this potentially and making it really where they feel like oh fuck i've done something really bad here like i now potentially they're thinking well is she thinking that i've raped her or you know like what's the you know i mean i know the r word is something that we is it's a tough word to say but there's a concern there right for that person as well so i suppose i need i need to feel that if you were going into this that you'd be going into this understanding that my permission has been granted and that then alleviates the concern of cheating because it's not cheating provided I'm aware of what's going on and we fit in the boundaries and rules that we set out yeah and I guess if I can just pause on what you just said there I mean we always both of us and we hope we get the same thing from our play partners as well but yes there is a level of respect there for your play partners I fully appreciate what you're saying Dee that you know you have concerns for me but that you also have concerns about you know hurting the other people or you know making them feel bad about something I absolutely respect that because I respect our play partners so I've absolutely no problems with you having those feelings i mean i'd be concerned if you didn't yeah so so that's certainly one of the concerns i have is you just flipping out once you get to that wherever that red line in the sand is that says you're now a cheater versus this being a consensual event so that's's a big concern for me because I think that you have the potential for that.

So let's talk about the possible solution for that as we go through then. I mean, from say that's using that exact scenario that you gave, it was me playing solo. I mean, what you would want to or expect to see then is some pretty enthusiastic actions or discussions or texts or chats prior to any kind of play, something that will give you an appreciation or an understanding that it is absolutely 100% something I want to do?

Yeah, absolutely because I suppose interestingly even a number of times where we've played with couples or single guys, some of it has kind of come from left field for me you know like there's a there are occasions the vast majority i understand that you're interested in playing but then there's sometimes where you'll be sitting there and all of a sudden you'll just say okay let's go to the bedroom and i'm like the fuck really and then there's other times where we're like in the middle of maybe soft play or or um or just canoodling with the other couple or single and then all of a sudden you'll go, get me a condom.

And I'm like, holy fuck, where did we go from, you know, like there's no, in some cases there's been just no reference between, okay, I'm enjoying myself, let's enjoy a little more step by step.

Sometimes you go from, you know sitting here drinking my wine let's go fuck you know so that that is something that i mean and that's with me in the room yeah so now take me out of the room and it becomes a real interesting uh problem for me to understand that you're actually interested in this um and i know that if you are really interested in it then the thought that's going through your head at the time if you say you are having sex with somebody else or a couple the thought going through your head when that's happening will not be focused on me it will be focused because you you're when you're in that mood and in that groove with with somebody then you're focused on that you know as i think you kind of should be you know you've still got to pay some attention to the person like if i'm in the room you still would pay attention to me which is great but you the focus should be on the person that you're with yeah and your and your own enjoyment.

And your own satisfaction, that's right. So with that in mind, I think once you step into that realm, the chances of you being still engaged with me in any way is very limited. Okay. So that means prior to, I think it's important that I have an understanding of what's going on. Yeah, that's fair enough. So what else do you have? What do you want to do?

it's important that i have an understanding of uh what's going on yeah that's fair enough so what else do you have what do you mean what else do i have you said you had other concerns you had a few that's one well that's two what was your other one that was that was it you might have to listen back through this you said like i you can your biggest concern is the flip out yeah the flip out is one yeah so what's the second one the second one is you is you not is us not is you not engaging with me in that period oh right i see what you're saying or prior to okay you know like there's we have to talk about that later with the requirements and boundaries i guess me not knowing when you've made that decision that it's a yes that's that's a second that's another concern yes okay um the other concern is of course I mean this is primary concern is your safety that's this is actually number one like I have a concern that this would happen in a manner that that makes it unsafe for you and I don't mean unsafe sex because I don't think there's anyone that we you would be involved with that you would allow and you know we've got some secret little things you've certainly got some you know I'm going to say not underhanded but that's the best word I can come up with because I didn't eat a thesaurus for breakfast an underhanded little check last minute check to make sure somebody's wearing a condom things like that i'm okay with my concern is more the you know you've had some very bad sexual experiences in your past and i would hate for you to get into a similar a situation through either poor decisions or lack of testicles.

Yeah, lack of testicles yeah lack of lack of ability to sort of uh make decisions and say no if the moment calls for it well and say it at a point where you're already not in a situation where you're unsafe to say it beforehand to actually say before you get back to the room for example to be able to say no i'm not going to go to the Thank you.

where you're unsafe to say it beforehand to actually say before you get back to the room for example to be able to say no i'm not going to go to the room because i'm not interested in this yep yeah that's that's my other your safety is well that's number one behind all this this other stuff we just spoke of who gives a shit i mean we can sort that out that's sortable stuff but safety is utmost concern for me so we need to figure out as well how we define that certainly there's some couples that we've been around for a long time that i don't have that concern with you know the belays for example i have no concern with them i know that if at any point during that play session you said to them stop or I think I might just back out of this I know what exactly would come next they would help you up they would make you feel comfortable you know they would make you feel like it's not a problem you know and there's other couples we have in our circle that I feel the same with as well.

But let's now turn it on its head and say single guy. So you're out with a single guy, somebody who I've maybe met before or not met before. Yeah, that can become a bit of a concern.

So certainly there's some single guys that we've been we've been with in the past that again I'd probably have no concern with you know I have to say Pepe I have no concern with Pepe because I know that he's a gentle loving soul you know you can we we experienced that with him and and not every meetup we had was a play mate as well you know there was no expectation from him so with that in mind no matter how far you get into the process I still believe there's no expectation from him you know so and even though he may be a little taken aback if you say stop this now I don't think he'd have a problem with it I think in fact he'd have more of a concern that he's done something wrong and this is what I'm looking for in the people that you're potentially playing with is that if you get to a point where you say stop my for me if somebody did that with me my initial instantaneous response would be oh shit I've done something that's hurt or upset or, you know, there's something I've done to cause this.

And I'm looking for people who are of that mindset, not the people who are saying, oh, fuck, you know, you've got me all revved up, now what? You know, that's the exact opposite of the people that I'm looking for.

So, yeah, that's my take on on it there's a few people in our circle now that I'd feel comfortable with doing that and there's certainly some people that I don't feel comfortable with me not being in the room yeah I mean I trust them but we just haven't been around them enough or they haven't shown me all of the check boxes that I need need checked to warrant me to feel that comfortable with them. Yeah. Yeah. Any other concerns? I mean, obviously, you getting injured physically is a concern. I think that kind of falls into the safety bracket, doesn't it? No, not so much.

safety is one thing but uh injury because of your over enthusiasm in the moment i think we may have had a few incidences of that well i mean yeah but how do you how do you put that to like how do you alleviate that how do you mitigate that risk let's say. Oh, no, you dropped your list. Now what? Let me just get that piece of paper without, you know, interrupting any of the audio quality and or, here we go, problems. Got it. Perfect. Can't hear the beanbag. Let's carry on. So, no, I don't see that. So I see that as a separate issue. That's a post-fact issue.

Let there's that what's that that's a very common sound in this podcast that flapping paper um the the concern for me is is not is not the current situation like you've hurt yourself during sex many times and and let's be let's be fair a lot of the time you've hurt yourself as well because you're like enjoying it and you get a bit carried away and you ask for or you do something that hurts you. There has been some cases as well where you've been hurt by somebody else, but they are by far the minority, I think.

My problem is the next day, you're now dealing with pain you're now dealing potentially with you know a uti uh yeast infection a whole world of other problems that come along with owning a vagina it appears and i'm not there i don't really think you actually own a vagina i've decided that that much of a pain in the butt that you actually they're just on the lease and there's a balloon payment at the end just to really fuck you over a lot of balloon payments along the way as well i think i think it's like a novated yeah yeah there's like service costs and shit yes it fucking is and then insurance hikes yeah and like interest rate hikes yeah absolutely yep your vagina is literally a novated lease automobile yep and it's like an unreliable automobile too.

No, it's like a really rare European brand that like every time a part breaks down, it's got to be imported, takes like four weeks, it's super expensive. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's like that. I think we feel like we're finished at a… So let's imagine now the car has broken down and you're stuck on the side of the road without anybody to support, you know, to come and help you because you're away. I like this analogy. Can I get some? No, it's going to be an air fist bump because if I move, it's going to mess up everything. So, yeah, you're now stuck on the side of the road.

You have nobody to provide you service. There's nobody there to make you feel safe, calm.

you know you're now stuck on the side of the road you have nobody to provide you service there's nobody there to make you feel safe calm you know you're now potentially in a another city another country or even even here and i'm away in the scenario where you're sick you're unhappy you know you generally don't deal with these sorts of things well because the next step for you is wine and then the next step after that is generally a chick flick that's very true and chick flicks do nothing but make you worse yeah but it feels good in the moment it's like it's like kfc it's like kfc or sometimes like dirty pizza or porn yeah it feels good at the time but you feel a little dirty after yeah but so this is this is my concern another concern is that if i'm not there to help you with that and you and you're not the best of looking after yourself in general you know you're you're that's accurate you're more concerned about other people than you are about yourself so when you get into that sort of realm where you are ill properly ill it's a real concern for me i mean shit i've gotten on a plane and flown back from somewhere after going there the week before to come back and help you through a flu that was a real flu though yeah i'm not just for those people out there that you know you coin the term flu when they've actually just got a cold just i mean get get your terminology right a flu a flu no you'll only know that it's you'll only know the difference when you actually get a flu i thought i was going to die a true flu influenza when you get influenza you kind of feel like you're gonna die but you actually wish like you would die also correct yeah you're like please kill me because this sucks yeah yeah for like three days any um anything else uh no i think that's probably it although if we continue through your paper list i'm sure there might be some more prompting along the way i'm sure there will be but i've i've i'm i'm done with the the potential uh i'm not going to i don't want to really call them pros and cons but the potential for that was all cons Where was the pros?

They're coming next. Yeah, we'll say, yeah. But what I was going to say is there is another one, and it's about time zone and location, but I think we can talk about that in boundaries type scenarios, like how do we manage that. So moving on, my thoughts on possible things that are positive about the potential for some solo play.

I'm just going to rattle the three of these off because then then it's easier and then we can just talk about them as we go through so um possibility to express oneself uh sexually and and also grow sexually so i've mentioned this a couple of times recently and i actually also wrote down a bit of a chapter on and no one has seen this i've showed it to d but that's about it a chapter on the ability to allow oneself to understand what they want sexually and give themselves the peace of mind to explore that you know what they want so i said you mean without the burden of your partner potentially being in the room and stifling that in the no no stifling is i think the right word but it takes some focus.

So what you're saying is that if I'm in the moment and you're there, it might be 80% on me and what I'm doing, but there's still going to be a 20% thought of what's happening with Dee, what he's doing, he's a sexual enjoyment, et cetera. What we're saying here is that it might give the opportunity for there to be 100% focus on what I'm doing. And also, you know that I'm totally not into needle play, but you might get in the moment and then say, ooh, I might want to try a little bit of needle play, but if I know Dee's here, he'd be freaking the fuck out.

Does that happen in the moment in your mind? Is that what happens? Like you're halfway through a session and all of a sudden you're like, hey, needles. Well, not needles. I mean, I'm taking a pretty broad brush there. Yeah, you kind of went extreme. I am paddling in the deep end of the pool, remember? Oh, that's right. Yeah, and maybe one of my unicorn floaties fell off. You know, I don't understand why you won't let me have little noise, soundy things on this podcast. I tried to do it a few times about two years ago because then I could have had like a little duck squeak right then.

That would have been a perfect, you know. Well, I mean, unless you can actually use use a proper term for a noise soundy thing i'm not sure you should ever be allowed to use one fine uh the second one was um ability to explore sexual desires both d's and mine and the third one was that it well quite frankly it could be very sexy yeah that's my thoughts on Okay. Yeah, and I think we are probably reasonably aligned on that in terms of sexual exploration, absolutely. I think it's an interesting, not only topic, but an interesting potential sexual exploration for both of us.

Yeah, I mean, let's just take this to a to an added not an extreme but an added scenario where you're now playing with a single lady right something you've not done well you have done a long time ago but not not since you really developed sexually as to where you are now that's something again that that is a totally different aspect to what we've been involved in as a couple Thank you.

developed sexually as to where you are now that's something again that that is a totally different aspect to what we've been involved in as a couple yeah true right and you know also you could reverse that with me yeah absolutely yeah so yeah i think sexual exploration is a really it's a big discussion topic between d and myself at the moment but it's actually something that i have been real for about six months now yeah you know I've been really thinking about it's why I wrote that chapter down it's all about allowing oneself the peace and mind and non-judgmental space even within ourselves to consider what we like what we want yeah we want to get out of all this yeah so there's certainly there's that aspect to it i totally agree with that and and i think there's a whole world of things that we could experience separately that are simply not possible when we're together like you can't play with a single lady just you and her with me there because i'm still there yeah whether i'm there sitting in the corner backhand stroking one, which I think is possibly the worst way to ever masturbate is the backhand stroke.

No, worst way to do it in a room, it's the creepiest. I think that's the creepiest. Yeah, we spoke about that. Yeah. So even if I'm there, I'm still there.

If I'm not there, I'm'm not there so it gives you a whole new genre of play and you know of understanding yourself and your sexuality so that i totally agree with that and i think there's a lot that we could learn there the the second one was what was that sexual desires so maybe exploring some sexual desires yours and mine yeah for sure i mean i don't think that you have been i don't think you've been quiet in the fact that you have a sexual desire and you've written about this as well actually you wrote a blog post a sexual desire about me exploring my sluttiness you know that is a big turn on to you the ability you have openly said you would love me to go and pick up at a bar whilst i'm traveling for work and pick up a guy and take him back to my room.

Yeah, and of course the fantasy versus the reality are two different things. I mean, covering off the side on safety before, that then impinges on my want for you to do that. But that is still the fantasy, right? Perfect world, perfect fantasy scenario, which is what plays out in my head is, yes, absolutely, I'd love you to do that. The reality of it is somewhat different, but that's just something that we'd have to work through the individual steps to make it palatable.

So there are sexual desires and then the last one I thought was yes it could be quite sexy oh absolutely yeah i think um the idea of me getting a say a photo from you or something or a short record of a you know a little voice you know the little voice button whatever that's called you record a little sound piece and send through you know a sound clip things like that i think they'd all be very very sexy you know um to understand even just random ones in the middle of a conversation were you with a couple or a single guy i think that that would be really sexy for me well that's a good segue d because that kind of leads us into what the requirements of guidelines would be if this was to occur.

So I've got a couple of things written down and I know you've got some thoughts on how, and you just mentioned it, you know, that you have to know beforehand or you want to know beforehand, you want to know I'm safe, you want to know when it's progressing.

You've spoken about these things since we started um and then you just mentioned you know the possibility of um a photo some interaction you said if it's going to be a couple's thing you know you'd want it again you'd want it to be some somehow you'd want to feel like you're part of it so uh run me through then what would be some of the guidelines that you or expectations you would have on on this this being kind of a go?

I mean, this is all, I think, still rather fluid because first time round, like when we had our first single guy, first couple, you know, the first time round we're going to fuck it up to some level, right?

There's going to be some things we have to talk through afterward because we have an expectation of what we want on the way in and that expectation changes depending on how things move forward but some of the things I thought of was yes absolutely engagement up front I need to feel like I'm involved somehow now I get a few of the things we touched there were yes a little voice message a little an understanding of the fact that things are progressing an understanding of the fact that you that things are moving to the bedroom you know the ability to the ability for you to see your phone light up should there be a concern at my end you know i still wish to be able to provide to to offer a stop from my end as well you know like if it's if i'm not feeling comfortable with what's going on then i also want to understand there's a way for me to say i don't want this to happen anymore.

And I guess that's one of my concerns is that I mentioned time zone and location earlier and let me just touch on two things here. My concern about that is that that is very black and white like I have to know exactly what is going to meet that criteria that is going to make you happy to make you feel engaged.

For example I need to know if your expectation is to you know i'm out to dinner do you want or do you expect an hourly text message and if i come and i'm an hour and 20 minutes between text messages because there was some great conversation the drinks were flowing and i just happen to be really engaged is that going to make you feel like it's outside the rules i'll ask you that i'll ask you the question up front what is your expectation and what do you think my expectation is of exactly what you've just described in a non-sexual encounter um well where it can you know just a pure vanilla encounter yeah i can i can actually explain i can i can explain that very easily actually the last time i went and i was on my own with our friends away for a weekend, you...

No. Stop. I'm not talking about what has happened. I'm talking about what your expectation is. What is your expectation? If I'm out with a couple or with a friend, what is your expectation in terms of timing, rough timing? Okay. Well, I would want to know that you've arrived yep or you're on your way or you've arrived i mean that would be the first thing um then i would expect to get some sort of halfway mark notification like a text halfway being like having a great night is real fun okay so let's imagine this is an eight hour an eight hour event so a halfway mark is still okay Yeah.

So four hours in. You're happy to wait four hours. Because I have the expectation that you are there or I am there engaging with the other people. And I don't want to take away and be picking up my phone every 45 minutes or an hour feeling like, geez, I better check in. I'd rather it be – so you're telling me what would be the minimal expectations, but these could go more often. I mean, my minimal expectation would be the halfway mark, but the better opportunity would be, you know, say for example. You can't say the halfway mark. How do you define a halfway mark?

Well, I'm just, that's what I'm saying. And this is the whole, my whole concern here. Yes, but if you're looking for. You're looking for very black and white.

I'm and this is come i wrote this down my concern about this is that i'd rather be in the moment versus a predetermined expectation on play expectation on no play in case of any mind changing or fluid throughout the evening you know as far as i'm concerned i'd rather feel a bit more free and have the opportunity and i i would expect actually my expectations would be i'd be sending more frequent texts because i intend to be out with friends we're probably going to be bar hopping i'll be sending you photos of the bar hopping photos of you know random funny things or the drinks i'm having and these sorts of things but what i what i don't want it to turn into is a well it's a it's one hour my alarm goes off i better check in well Well, no, I've never had an expectation of that.

But your expectation that you've just put forward of what you expect in a normal vanilla scenario is not what I've seen when we're in that vanilla scenario. Well, that's what I was trying to use the recent examples where you hadn't checked in in seven hours in a vanilla event and I was still like, oh, yeah, cool, you're hanging with people. Yeah, that did happen recently. The first time it happened and you were like, oh, I'll call you soon and four and a half hours later you called me. And there was other times when, yes, you had been four or five hours without hearing a bow peep. Okay.

Well, I think we've probably got a different perspective on that because i certainly feel like a lot of the times even when we're in a normal vanilla i'm in a normal vanilla event that there's a requirement for me to check in otherwise there'll be a uh an ang not angry that's not the right word but certainly somebody who's got a little bit of a bug in their ass when i pick up the phone and do finally make a call okay so that's something i think we probably need to understand that's why i'm having this conversation with you i i think i need to understand what is your expectation so i can meet it because i think this will end up very poorly if i mean your expectation is possibly that you get some sound bites possibly get a video i'm assuming'm assuming you want to call directly beforehand, directly after.

You're talking about text during sex. So what I'm saying is... No, I'm not saying that any of these are requirements. What I'm saying is I would think that you want me to be also involved. I'm sure that... So how would you perceive yourself involving me in something like this? Well, that's what I was saying before. I mean, I think that I would rather it be quite fluid where I am sending you photos throughout the night, possibly bar hopping. I'm giving you a text saying heading back to the hotel. I'm feeling like this is going to be a play situation. I'm very comfortable with it. I'm excited.

This is going to be sexy. These people are going to be there. This is what I intend to do or what I would hope would happen as long as obviously, I mean, I'm assuming these people are in agreeance with what's going on. Okay, let's just pretend they are. And then that, you know, when I get to the hotel or something, I can send you a text saying we're back.

And then however long the play session lasts for, and then at the end of the play session I would anticipate you would want some sort of a, well, we're done now, I'm safe, I had a fun time, and then the expectation was perhaps that the next morning we would, you know, have a chat and I would kind of tell you what kind of unfolded. I'm assuming you would want to know. Yeah, absolutely. Of course I want to know. I mean, part of the fantasy for me is understanding what happens. You know, the fantasy is me effectively being a fly on the wall, not there but there. That's certainly part of it.

I have no problem with what you've just put forward.

My concern is that the halfway mark is an absolute horseshit term because there's no such thing as halfway because you don't know when halfway is because you've got to know when the end is to know when halfway is so you you know it has to be a little bit more rigid than that you've got to say well yes what you've just described is what would be fine with you know conversation during the evening in terms of engagement photos or you know a quick update when you I mean you go to the bathroom how regularly do you think how regularly do you go to the bathroom when you're out drinking wine no no I mean this is this is a serious question you know what's funny I actually feel like this we talk about sex a lot on this podcast we talk about anal plan I feel like that question is too personal.

Well, I don't think it is. Yeah, that's fucking hilarious. The irony. Can you ask me about my bathroom habits? No, because I... is too personal well i don't think it is yeah that's the irony because ask me about my bathroom habits no because i i have to go to the bathroom every couple of hours let's say right and when i'm in there now i'm standing up and one hand is definitely engaged and i can still manage to get a text off to you in that period of time you are at least squatting if not sitting down yeah Yeah, but that's bathroom texting. I mean, come on. Oh, fuck you wish. You wish.

You've called me from the freaking toilet. I have not. Yes, you have. I have actually never done that. More than once.

Later after this podcast, we're going to have a discussion about that because it's it's actually common practice in singapore for ladies to start conversations or enter the bathroom with sorry okay sorry you weren't in necessarily and i want to actually i want to actually washing your hands on the way out anyway so either or can we agree that you might be able to flick me a text when you take a pee how about i flick you a text that's excuse myself for a second at the table Thank you. Either or, can we agree that you might be able to flick me a text when you take a pee?

How about I flick you a text, excuse myself for a second at the table, send you a text, go off to the bathroom and do my business? Let's say you're in the powder room, powdering your nose. Nothing to do with peeing. Fine, fine, okay, agree. You're powdering your nose. Boop. That's the noise that a powder puff makes on the nose, by the way. Boop. That's too much. It's too much to wipe some off. I know, now I'm going to have to wipe. There you go. Good. Boop, boop. No, too much. Maybe you've just got to touch up a little bit where I wiped too much off. There's so much blush on there now.

Oh, shit. Well, this is my first time applying powder. It's not like I do this all the fucking time. Why is there shimmer? Oh, my God. You should see my eyeliner. It's like an inch thick. I know. Anyway, so surely in that period there's a chance for you to say something. Just a quick, hey, everything's fine. Yeah, and that's the other thing too, I guess.

Again, these are all to eliminate the possibility of walking away and the next day you feeling or me feeling or somebody feeling like there has not been enough correct and what i'm saying is though even within the text message itself or the chat or the call is a quick hey i'm doing great this is fun okay and enough and engaging enough for you or are you going to be like wanting to then send back question after question of has he touched your leg has he you know you know, like. Well, I mean, it would be nice to get a sort of a small roadmap as well as to what's going on. That's my point though.

So I think all of these things really probably need to be, and I don't think we're going to have enough time on this podcast. You're not going to define this stuff. This is stuff that you're going to have to, we're going to have to figure out on the fly. Fine, but.

it's not something you can we need to make sure that then when when no one's walking away pissed off then with the understanding that these are things that are possibly going to be gotten wrong but we're only gonna yeah i mean but we're we're only gonna be pissed off until we figure it out we've got to have the discussion afterwards as much as we want to discuss this up front this isn't this scenario is fluid the whole scenario changes so we can't define every possible outcome in terms of what the of course you can't but what i'm saying is there's post event situations where you can be hey that was not ideal and let's maybe think about this next time versus you didn't fucking text me enough and now I'm really angry and it's taking it to a very negative way so do you not think that that conversation do you not think that somebody saying that to you is okay like if I was to say to you I don't believe you text me texted me enough and I'm actually pretty upset about that is that really a bad thing no I mean it's a thing.

What I'm saying is we have to agree that you can't, one can't hold a grudge or be angry or do whatever if we weren't aware. I need to ask you a question. When was the last time I held a grudge? Oh, my God, you hold so many grudges. Oh, really? Who do I hold grudges with? What's that chest in the cupboard that's marked grudges? What is that? It's a chest that I will probably hit you with after this. I – come on. You get pretty angry. I was the emcee at my best friend's wedding who cheated with my girlfriend. Yeah. Grudge free. Okay. I mean, I don't know how much less grudgy somebody could be.

Okay. I think we've covered this enough. We've spoken about this topic for a while now. So what is... Whoa. Fucking hell. No, I mean, that situation. So what's another requirement in your mind? So we've spoken about contact. We've spoken about understanding the progression.

And we've spoken about post-play or making sure that there's an an engagement so contact throughout the evening um progression so you fully appreciate that i'm wanting to do it or that i'm eager and then three would be um an understanding of the play to to engage well no you've taken it one one step too far um three would be the completion of potentially play and either that person going home or returning to their own bed or whatever that might look like and you actually then letting me know that you're you're safe you're okay you either had a good or a bad evening yeah that's what I meant and and then we can like if if it's a good evening then that can be you know it can be a simple response from me fantastic let's talk about it when we can or whatever yeah when i'm awake whereas the other end is i've had a fucking horrible time i i thought i was enjoying the play and then this happened i mean that's more critical for me to know and frankly that's something that you mentioned time zones and you mentioned um other locations, that's the thing that I would wait up for in any time zone.

I don't give a fuck because I want to know that you're safe going in, you're safe during, and you're safe at the end. Yeah. And let me just add another little tidbit here, especially if it's something where, you know, if if you're solo with another with a couple we know or a single we know that i know as well this is probably not as relevant but if we were to ever get to the point where you went out and say picked up a guy or whatever then i would absolutely require that i have the trackability of you on your phone, right?

And for no other reason than if I don't get that ceiling conversation from you before you fall asleep or whatever, I am fucking turning up. No, I will turn up wherever the fuck you are and I will find you because, no, because let's pitch a worst-case scenario here. No, I get what you're saying. I get it. Yeah. And I agree with what you're saying. So that's an absolute for me and I would expect that you would kind of want that from me as well, although I think it's kind of interesting. I've sent photos of taxi drivers to you before in third world countries where I'm like, I may end up dead.

What I think is interesting here though is generally you don't have this requirement upon me. I'm in a fight. You're probably going to do better than I am. Honestly, I mean, you've been in more fistfights than I have. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

Is there any other guidelines or requirements from what you would you would think so we've spoken about i mean at this point in time as well we are talking about people we would know i'm we're not talking right now about me going out to a hotel so in in that regard you know it's people that we know um we have maybe may or may not have played with before but we know them um i mean is there any other things that you can think i may think of that would be of course things like personal safety um sexual safety all of that of course are requirements or guidelines um well that's a requirement not a guideline.

But is there anything else that you think would be a deal breaker, I guess? No, not a deal breaker, but the only other thing would be things that you say, things that you've not done sexually with somebody else. So if I had anal play with a guy. Exactly. So if you decided in that moment. That I was going to go off and do DP with two other men. Exactly. I would probably want to, not probably, I would want to know about that before the fact because I still want the ability as if I was in the room.

If I'm in the room and you say, I want to have DP with these two guys, and I didn't feel comfortable with that, I'd say, well, I don't feel comfortable with that.

and what would be your response from that fine absolutely won't do it exactly so i still need and i think you would still need that as well that hey guess what this person wants me to do this and just as it would be in if i was in the room or if you were in the room we would say we would say hey one second we need to discuss this can you give us a second we'll discuss it and then we'll decide whether we're going to do that or not i don't think that's any different via text or via whatever yeah and the simple response is if you or i cannot answer that question then it's a no yeah i get it so for example a different time zone or i'm asleep or you're asleep or we're at work.

Yeah, don't expect to send it five minutes before you're about to perform the act and then be able to hit it. And you have to be willing yourself and I have to be willing as well to say if somebody asks a question, like say I'm with a couple and they say, oh, we want to do DP. And I would simply have to say, I'm sorry, guys, I need to check that I can do that. I need to have a conversation with my wife. No, I get that. And then if I don't get the response back, I have to have the courage to say, I'm sorry, I can't do that. Yeah. And so do you. Yep, I agree. So it's a no and it's consent.

It's a no unless it's a yes. Yep, I agree. Yep, okay, sweet. So that's very cut and dry. Anything else? No. Okay. No. I don't think so. I think, I mean, there's going to be, if we go ahead and do this, there's going to be some other things that we'll figure out on the way through. And we've spoken about this, like little things will pop up during your lifestyle journey like the first time you came and another woman's mouth took me by surprise. I have said that many times because, as you said before, you alluded to it, you cannot discuss everything at some point in time.

And, in fact, actually, Mr. and Mrs. James from We Got a Thing podcast just released, a new podcast this week on confidence and courage, and he spoke, Mr. Jones spoke towards the end of the podcast about the fact that, you know, you can research and review and discuss and write down and everything until the cows come home, but at some point you've got to go on the deep end and you've got to figure it out. Is it going to be? I want to know when they sent the cows out.

Like when did did that happen when did they send the cows out before they came home yeah well maybe you could maybe you could explain it i mean given your current um for a particular computer game that has cows dogs i don't want to discuss my my lame computer game your embarrassment my lame computer game addiction it is the lamest game ever but i have i have you know are you going to throw it out are you going to let everyone know what the lame game no oh shit no yeah no you should because no you might get people addicted to it and then it can be like a swingers weird lame game no so we are not going to do the other segments for today's podcast uh because we just wanted to leave it on are we done yeah we're done we're at an hour i think that's good so i don't care what the timing is we just break it up into two podcasts just to make people people think it's painful coming up next on swinging down under my do we do a rehash of what's happened in the previous episode as well like snippets yeah and i and i'm you and you're me like at the end of the last last podcast that you snuck in there.

Snuck in. I mean, I think so where are we at with this? I understand, one, that you think it would be extremely sexy. I'm going to tell you what I understand of what your thoughts are and then maybe you can do the reverse of me, yeah?

I understand think that this would be extremely sexy i understand that you would be excited for me to explore my own sexual freedom and desires and fantasies i understand that this would be a desire of yours and that that you would also get something out of it so long as i engage you in a manner that you think is appropriate or that meets that criteria and i think that you would feel comfortable with it as long as i am comfortable my safety is there and it's with people that we both feel comfortable with yeah okay so i i agree with those without any doubt um next thing i'd like you to give your you want me to give mine first no i want you to do i just you yeah yeah so i'm not gonna i'm not gonna talk about me now i want you to give your, you want me to give mine first?

No, I want you to do, I just did you. Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to talk about me now. I want you to tell me. Yeah, so, I mean, I agree with what you've just said on my side, I agree. I think for you it's something that's a push of your boundaries. I understand that it's a push of your boundaries. I understand that it's a concern for you in terms of our relationship and our ability to cope with it. Thank you. a push of your boundaries. I understand that it's a push of your boundaries. I understand that it's a concern for you in terms of our relationship and our ability to cope with it.

I also believe that you're interested in it with the right people, whoever that might be, but that doesn't mean that you're willing to push to, you know, you're not willing to go to a full-play scenario up front. I think this is an exploratory thing for you rather than a definite. I also understand that you don't understand what the requirements are in terms of contact or you don't understand what my requirements would be.

And that's because it's very difficult for me to define that in terms of you know so we're going to get that wrong I also understand we will get some things wrong along the way when it comes to that I also understand that you're being exceptionally cautious about how this might move forward which is a good thing um i also think i think i don't understand this but i think that you will have a whole lot of fun and learn a whole lot more new interesting things about yourself good or bad and then we can either deal with those internally and and explore them more for the good obviously or deal with the bad or we can possibly engage with other people to understand how those bad those bad perceptions came about and then potentially deal with some of some of the historic issues that may have been generated by either your family or past sexual encounters Thank you.

deal with some of some of the historic issues that may have been generated by either your family or past sexual encounters yeah and i mean i don't know should i mention that on the podcast what why we don't like talking about the r word oh no absolutely i mean you've been open about it on twitter yeah i spoke about this on twitter a while ago the reason that d's saying that you know there's there's some caution there in terms of me feeling like I'm cheating or my history, I'm not going to go into it in a great deal on the podcast, especially this episode.

I don't really think that it's the right space for it, but to give you an understanding of why we don't often use the word rape when it's in relation to anything that has been at least somewhat consensual is because I actually have been through sexual abuse and violence when I was quite young. And so for me, that has been a growth and an understanding within myself and exploring my sexual boundaries, but also doing so within the lifestyle and feeling at a safe space.

So when we do see or hear that term, it is quite difficult for me to take and associate because I am consensual in this and going to a club, I'm consensual, putting myself out there is a form of consent. And, you know, so hearing or seeing that can be quite difficult for me to swallow as a survivor of such sexual violence. So that's, I guess, why Dee's wanting to make sure that, you know, there is no, that I wouldn't be harming myself in a mental capacity as well, I guess.

Well, I mean, also, yeah, you're unfortunately with, along with the poor, I'm going to say poor training, I don't know another way to put it and I'm sure there'll be some judgment on this from a few people. But if you constantly teach, I really don't have the vocabulary to explain this well so I'm going to use an example. Is this about mother to daughter? No.

This is more if you constantly teach an animal that a particular location in the house is out of bounds by hitting it with a with a stick it's not going to go to that location and unfortunately along your sexual journey you've had some some people hitting you with sticks yeah okay right that's the best way i can describe it so what i'm saying is is that in some cases you have put yourself again in awkward situations because your training or instinct has been sometimes moved to a location that it really shouldn't be.

You know, you have initially when we, for a perspective initially when we first met, you believed that sex was a requirement of a relationship you know like you we honestly believe that uh without without sex as a first second or third event on you know like on a date like a second maybe third second or third date sex was almost a requirement for that was your perception and i think we've probably changed that but perception comes from training and experience and experiences exactly so i think your experience your perception and your exposure has changed that along the way but there's still some underlying concerns and look there will always be um you know i i think that being in in a lifestyle and us discussing this and me feeling in a safe space has actually really opened up my ability to almost see the world as a better place, I have to say, especially, you know, sexual experiences as a better place.

But, yes, there is and there will always be a part of my journey, of myself and of our relationship because it is a burden we both carry that um that you know we'll we'll always be there yeah absolutely but one of the glorious things and and i'm gonna this is a callback moment you you used the term um somewhat consensual earlier and some people may have gotten hung up on that what what uh what i'd like to say is in the lifestyle we have had nothing but honest consensual individuals along the way um to my mind and please correct me if i'm wrong see but to my mind you've never had an event in the lifestyle where you felt that you had to do something no in the beginning i probably put that that idea on myself you know we spoke about this in episode two where i where i was thinking gosh i've spent some time with these people that must mean that you know we should have sex now that's nothing to do with this so i just want to really reiterate that but um to to your question though what i meant meant earlier, and I'm happy to clarify my semi-consensual comment, was that if I go to a lifestyle club, for example, there are going to be people there who do want to flirt with me and all the rest of it.

Now, if they do touch me inappropriately, that's another whole thing. But at no point have I actually had an aggressive or upsetting non-consensual issue occur. Actually, the reason I go back to Episode 2 was because we're just about to re-release better audio quality of that one. And the bartender, if you remember at the pool table, had touched my leg. Yeah.

That would be the most extreme version of what I would classify as non-consensual was that he was flirting and he he was kind of touching my leg um yeah so uh so yeah i mean i i this all comes back to me though i just want to make sure that you're in a safe head and and physical environment and you start your experience in that environment and you finish it in the same environment yeah i agree yeah so does that answer your question about whether or not what's the conclusion of this discussion was that we're open to trying it we're open to it occurring um yeah i think i think i i mean i've probably always been a little more open to it than you have anyway because it is a fantasy of mine right so but that said i've i'd also like to say for some of the haters out there i have never pushed c into doing anything that fits into my fantasies um i have asked her and i have been turned down on many occasions and what i simply do is swallow that up and walk away because that's what somebody who loves somebody else does you know sometimes pushing people's boundaries is a good thing in in some occasions provided that it's a it's a nudging let's let's say nudging but for a for a growth for a personal growth and for also to to help somebody understand where they sit as well you know that that may be putting you in a helicopter with me to extend your fear of flying, you know, things like that.

So there are good reasons sometimes to push boundaries. But boundaries… No boundaries. I think pushing gives a negative connotation. No, no, pushing boundaries is fine. Pushing rules is not. Yeah. That's the difference. Okay, well. So I think, well, I mean, you haven't given your answer.

I did yeah i just said that i think that um it sounds like it's definitely something that we would enjoy doing under the right circumstances and okay yeah okay well i i don't i don't hate the idea and i think we'll learn a lot from it along the way and six months from now we might come back and say that we're not doing it anymore if if we do it in the next six months you know uh so yeah i suppose it's a tentative yes from both of us at the moment well good chat i hope everybody enjoyed that i don't know do you think that that was an interesting topic to cover d do you think people are going to enjoy that or it's a bit wordy?

Well, it's probably the deepest podcast we've ever done. Yeah? Yeah, I mean, I think they've just looked up my skirt. A little bit. And I refuse to tell you my bathroom habits, so please stop emailing. No, keep emailing. I can tell you if you'd like down to the second. No. But otherwise, thank you very much, as always, for listening to Dee and myself chat about our lifestyle journey. We really appreciate it. And thank you to the recent iTunes reviews. Really appreciate those too.

It's kind of crazy seeing all the lovely things that some of you people out there write or constructive criticism also always welcome. So thank you for that. Except when you talk about me poorly, that's not good. Yeah, which Dee's had a little bit of that recently. It's quite funny to see and read. No, that's fine. Keep sending. If you hate me, I'm happy for you to not listen. You're a bit polarizing, sweetie. No, it's good. I mean, love me or hate me, I don't mind which one it is.

Just don't send me a shit in the mail that's not okay i'm a little bit concerned you're a bit obsessed about getting a poo in the mail that's because one of my friends got sent a shit in the mail yeah it's a bit weird all right well thank you very much this is c and this is d and this is swinging down under We'll see you next time.