P59 – MFM Threesomes and Male Performance Issues

Transcript

Hi there, my name is C. I'm D. And you're listening to Swinging Down Under. Our journey is a couple through the swinging lifestyle. Are you into open relationships? Or exploring new things in life? This is our podcast. Experiences. Both good and bad. Reviews and events. And more. Here's Swinging Down Under. Come on. Join us. This is C. And this is D. And this is Swinging Down Under. Okay, welcome to episode Swinging Down Under 59. We're going to talk about threesomes. Is this number 59? Yes, and you know what? Actually, we have like a couple of people. I know.

So it's very important to know which number it is. Suck on that. Obviously, reading, not their strong point. Threesomes. We're going to talk about male, female, male threesomes. And also we're going to talk about performance issues. Two separate subjects, though. So we're not talking about performance issues in a male, female, male. Although we could, but specifically two separate subjects. So the performance issues, we're going to take a slightly different tack at that though. But we'll get to that in a minute. We will.

Okay, so the reason we're doing this actually is we put up some votes on options on Twitter about what we should podcast about. So we had 92 votes and 45% said they wanted to hear male, female, male and 35% said performance. So we're doing both.

So for all our Twitter listeners out there, I mean mean you have too much time on your hands actually just a brief stop over as well um i just want to thank everybody who recently reviewed us on itunes or the different podcast downloads stitcher etc that they use we put up a post on twitter recently and we didn't have a lot and we had i think quite a few people review us you very much for everybody who actually did that. Now, two other things too.

We also received a really cool email from S, and I don't know her husband's initial, but they're a North Bay couple, and that was a really sweet email. She thought that she was stalking us by sending us an email, and I replied by sending her a kick message and said, who's the stalker now? And I decided to get a legal binding agreement that she can't come within a few hundred feet of us. Oh, bullocks. Yeah.

Actually, she was complaining that we'd get to go to OSS in Sydney on the 16th of February, and she was saying that it's not fair, and we described the club really coolly, and she wishes she could go. It is a great club. But you know what I responded with? Yeah, you're in the U.S., I mean. You're in the U.S. There's a mountain of clubs for you to go to. Like, come on. I was like, you can't have everything. Give us one thing. Yeah, just one thing. God's sake, just one thing. Just one thing, that's what we want. That and stop stalking us, you weirdo. Ah, funny.

So thanks for your email, Es, that was really cool. Okay, male, female, male, sex. So at the end of this as well, we're going to have some audio from our friends from Perth, Australia. They're naughty threesome on Twitter. And they actually also have a preference for male, female, male play. And so we're going to hear a little bit about their perspective on why they chose or why they prefer it, what made them go down that path, what they get out of of it. First, I'm going to ask you a question there to clarify. You said preference. Like, do we have a preference for...

No, they have a preference. Yeah, I know, but you said kind of like us, they have a preference. Oh, okay. Do we have a preference? I wouldn't... Can we get into that in a second? Well, no, I was getting into that now.

I know you've got notes and they're precisely in order we're going to play the audio at the end and so listen to that okay so male female male threesomes do we have a preference for male i don't know okay what do you i'm starting to get that way here in singapore but only because uh single men i thought were easier to find apparently it's a lot easier to find married men who are cheating on their wives than it is to find single men let's backtrack though i wanted to go through how we started because you know what there's actually a lot of people out there on a number of different social media websites that we participate in who have been talking a lot about threesomes recently how how to get into it why why they're feeling that way there was a guy who posted you know I want this to happen and I'm really I'm not sure about my emotions on it and you know is it normal etc and I mean so tell us Dee why originally you bought the idea of having a male female male threesome what made you bring that okay so first up i'm just going to say from now on in we're going to call it a threesome bam okay so for anyone who's listened if you're listening from here on just go back and you'll hear us say male female male or male male female whatever you want to call it it's a threesome okay two guys two guy threesome okay yeah so just just you know because i'm not going to say that the whole podcast because my mouth's going to get sore um so why did i originally put that forward well originally i think i've explained this before like most guys i came into this lifestyle thinking oh my god oh my god i get to play with two women or multiple women, this is going to be awesome.

What I quickly learned was that I actually liked to see you happy and pleasured. So how did you figure that out? Was that obviously through couple play? Yeah, couple play. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, we played with a couple of couples, and because of that, I'd figured out that i enjoyed watching as much as i did doing now i suppose at that point just to put a finer point on that at that point i didn't realize as well and you also hadn't identified that you were into play with women but i enjoy you now playing with women as well like uh certainly really you enjoy watching me with other women yeah yeah but but um as long as you're being as long as you're enjoying it yeah which for you to enjoy it i think there's some specifics there you need to be into the woman obviously yeah i mean obviously but uh being into the woman so she so i can be with her versus you being into the woman uh oh completely two different things oh yeah there's a difference between my my attraction to a woman in terms of yep have no problems let's all have some group play um and she can be with you or we might interact slightly.

But there's a vast difference to then my liking to her and my attractiveness to her if I'm going to actually engage. Your attractivosity. Intractivosity. If I'm going to engage in actual play, proper play with her, absolutely. Two different things. Yeah, of course. But I didn't understand that at the beginning. Okay. Because, well, frankly.

We didn't understand anything at well but that i didn't understand that at the beginning okay because well frankly we didn't understand anything at the beginning so um now that we've gotten deeper into it we've certainly got some ladies who you play with who i'm as excited about you playing with them as i am about you playing with a single guy okay but there's still something a little bit more I'm gonna say primal I don't know I don't know my vocab does not cover what I need to say here but I'm gonna say primal if anyone's got a problem with that please uh send a letter to somebody who gives a crap no no no I was actually I was just going to say to Mr.

and Mrs. Jones at We Got A Thing or Jane Angie at The Average Swingers or Paige and Penn from Swinger Diaries, feel free to just tell any of the other podcasters out there. Or the Curious Couple. I mean, yeah, just talk to them. Just send them hate mail. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's a little more primal somehow to have, to watch you be, and it's probably more about the penetration than it is about the rest because the ladies can do everything really up and to that. And, I mean, you can use a strap-on as well, which I find even more exciting.

So I think it might be involved with the penetration so but there certainly are ladies out there now as well that and i don't and for anyone who's played with us and didn't get to spend a lot of time with c there wasn't that wasn't planned it was just at that particular instance that's how it worked out but we um yeah so for me it's there's certainly something to do with penetration and um when you thinking back about this too like when you originally said hey let's try to find a single man a lot of things ran through my head and one of them was well that feels like cheating to me and if you go back and listen to episode 19 um i touched on this actually it was it was a pre pre podcast just before we went on a date with a single guy who we ended up actually sleeping with so podcast 20 was about sleeping with them um but podcast 19 i talk about the fact that i felt almost like i was you know greedy or i was cheating or you know i was having all of these emotions that maybe I wasn't doing the right thing or this seems unfair to Dee or these crazy sorts of ideas that kind of pop into your head.

I don't feel that way now. I think that probably I... But now you feel that way about potentially playing with a couple or a single guy without me. Oh, yeah.

Yes, but that's like the boundary, not not rule but the boundary we had has now shifted yeah as boundaries do and so i remember when you brought this idea to me of hey let's try to find a single man it was kind of freaky because i did feel that way i felt a little bit like maybe i was cheating on you and the second thing i felt was a lot of um i guess self-confidence a lot of concerns that maybe i wasn't going to be lack of self-confidence lack of self-confidence yeah like i wasn't going to be issues good enough like who you know normally if there's a couple situation i felt in my mind that that would be easier for us to engage with like we get to engage all together and.

And with a single guy, however, it's just... So you're relying on my sexiness to prop up. Yes, it's us together collectively. Yeah, and you're right. I mean, my sexiness certainly does prop up the overall sexiness of the group that we're in. So I think with the guy, just a single guy... Hot as fuck! God, you're killing me.

Yeah, it was a bit tough for me to kind of get over that initial um hurdle that perhaps i wasn't going to be sexy enough engaging enough really know what i'm doing in the bedroom you know positions all the whole the whole thing that runs through your mind now is this based around the fact that you've had things like this happen previously where you have have you ever had in the past where somebody's said that to you or no no okay just curious just yeah just just digging into them digging into the mind of sea the things that run through your head i guess when you when you start to feel like maybe you're not good enough good enough it's pretty simple yeah just don't feel good enough and then from from there, though, I mean, we've had quite a, I would say quite a number of threesomes now.

Nice threesomes, yeah. A lot of them have been, a lot of them have not made it to the threesome because they've just been cunts. Wow. I'm straight in there. We had a pretty bad experience this week, and I think C's got it in her notes further down. I don't, actually.

I was going to try and steer clear of, like, steer clear of like no i'm in i'm balls in well can we do some positive stuff first no i'm gonna i'm i'm on this rant okay leave me on my soapbox if you'll excuse me ladies and gentlemen i'm just gonna let d go into this rant and then i'm gonna so we were we were talking to this guy and i have two standard questions i ask the first one is are you based in singapore Because it's very easy to find fly-through guys here in this country. It's a very transient country.

A lot of people come in to do business and then leave because their business is finished. And they may only be here for two or three weeks. We're looking for, when it comes to single males, we're looking for somebody who's going to be around a bit longer.

So we actually grow to understand him and more importantly he can grow to figure out what she is interested in what makes her tick what she likes what she doesn't like now that's my first question second question is are you single why do you ask that d because i want we want single guys or guys who are in a um non-monogamous uh agreed relationship ethically non-monogamous relationship where he is able to he's allowed or you know she's allowed to play they they have an agreement whereby it's not considered cheating yeah so there's there's those two people who want play with.

And it's very simple. The reason is not anything to do with their moral compass. It's more to do with the fact that we just don't need the drama in our life. I think for me it's to do with their moral compass. I know for you it is. I don't want to play with somebody who's an asshole. We haven't gotten to you yet. Okay, sorry. We're still at me. Sorry. Me asking the questions. Okay.

You haven't even been introduced to them yet at this point it's your rant honey you can yeah yeah that's right so i mean do i need a staple your mouth closed a little over there because you know this is my podcast for right now okay for right now okay soon it can be yours again okay so um so i uh ask those two questions up front we then do some conversation i do some prying i found a few uh queries that tend to get guys off guard and actually make them release information they don't tend to normally release then after i figure out they seem to be somewhat of a gentleman i then open it up to include c i then ask c to ask the two questions again the two first questions because normally been a couple of weeks between i when i first talked to them and now um and then c asked the same questions again and occasionally you ask the same questions more than once because your spidey senses might be on fire as well anyway in this particular instance we got to the end where we were about to catch up with this guy and this was thursday this week so it is currently sunday and so it's still a little fresh the uh the gentleman who uh we were meaning to catch up with he asked us a very simple question that made both of us ask want to ask the same question of him he said can we find somewhere a little bit a little more with more privacy no a little more secluded okay and both of us immediately thought single guy why does he need privacy why does he need uh somewhere secluded now if he had a worded that differently and actually asked for somewhere where that there was a little more intimate where you could perhaps talk about things a little more openly things like that it would I'm going to go to the next slide.

Now, if he had worded that differently and actually asked for somewhere where it was a little more intimate, where you could perhaps talk about things a little more openly, things like that, it probably wouldn't have opened our minds up so quickly. But both of us responded with, or wanted to respond with, I got to it first, with, why is that? His response was not confidence-inspiring. so um being the super schluth that she is, managed within five minutes to find his... Minimally, it was about 15 minutes. 15 minutes to find his wedding photos of his wedding four months prior to now.

This is why I'm on my soapbox, because I have no...

Well, I shouldn't say say i have no problem it's your life if you choose to to destroy your own life that's your choice however don't bring us into destroying your life and in fact then trying to destroy our relationship in the process by lying to us it really pisses me off so if there's any single males or not single males out there who are listening to this the other thing that really upsets me is I had to have this conversation with C I reached down I grabbed my scrotum I squeezed and I asked the question of her it was not an easy conversation I didn't expect it you might want to clarify what question you're asking me well this is the question of do you want to get into this lifestyle right if you don't want to ask that question then either be monogamous break up be yeah take your choice yeah don't be a man actually step up and ask the question of your wife if you're not doing that and you're cheating on your wife then to my my mind, you're not a man.

Bam. I can't drop the mic because it's on the bed. And they're brand new and we don't want any shitty audio for this podcast. So the podcast is back to being our podcast now. Okay. Thank you for that, Dee, that lovely rant that you went on. But, yes, that is a um we ended up and for those of you curious we he also used a false name so in the final response i sent was using his real name and just saying hey we're not interested in catching up anymore so that's where we've left it we don't want to be toxic about it and well i did want to be you want it to be i wouldn.

Sorry, but the selection process really for us, you know, how we find single men, we find them through dating sites. SDC is a good one for us in our region. And we also use the app Field that Dee's actually scrolling on right now. And that's how we find them. But we do like to... Well, I've got to find a new single guy now. This guy fucking screwed us over. Well, I think we found one last night, so I don't know why he's so negative. This guy sounds pretty good. Yeah, he does. But so did the last guy. Yeah, true. I'm becoming more and more cynical about this.

You've totally gotten us off track now. I can't even remember where we were. Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, get back to your notes, baby. There are no notes about the talking. We're supposed to be just talking about threesomes and why they're great for us. Oh, they are great for us generally. So, okay, so stepping back. Bam, I mean, do we need to say anything else? So episode 19, I spoke about, you know, my concerns. We've had a number of threesomes since then. Mostly they work out very good. We find that most threesomes are fantastic. Yeah, I would agree.

I think in general, provided you find, and we're somewhat particular because we're looking for somebody who's both intellectually and physically stimulating. Pants on, pants off friendship, yeah.

And we have found some amazing guys along the way, some of which are still very good friends, some of which we talk to still reasonably regularly even though they may not be local to us anymore so yeah I think it's been a great experience and the guys that we've actually met with even the guys that we only you know there has been guys that we've only caught up with once because things changed we've had people that have found girlfriends you know things like that which certainly puts a dent in things but i think in general the experiences have been great they've been great people along the way so i have a question for you then when you first thought about let's have a threesome when you first thought about it and what you had anticipated it would be like or emotions that you would have or what it would look like or how the play would kind of engage or finish now knowing and having been in multiple play sessions what do you think was your expectation then versus now what's the big difference what was the surprise for you um the surprise for me i suppose is how comfortable i was with it um and i don't mean having another guy in the room i really don't have any problem with that at all i don't even mean incidental touching anything like that i was totally okay with that walking into any form of three um three-way scenario the the only thing i suppose that was i mean that that level of comfort the fact that you know after i've audited and that's the only way i can put this these guys and got to the point where they're in the bedroom with us i actually feel quite safe with them and And by that, what I mean is I feel that I've done my best to understand that they're the right fit for you and for me in terms of who they are.

And, I mean, at this point, I've got to say, 99% of the time, we are not the couple who ask for cock shots. No, we don't. So 99% of the time, we would not know what these people look like with their clothes off because that's kind of a side note, right? Once you've figured out that they're intellectually stimulating and you find them sexy, whatever their package looks like after that, you know, is generally fine. I mean, the biggest problem for us would be if it were fucking 14 inches long and 5 inches round. That would scare you the fuck out of me. A pause.

We were watching some porn the other night. What's it called? That porn is called? Blacked.com. And there was a... So it's black, big, big black guys generally on small Caucasian ladies. Oh, not Caucasian. The one that I was terrified by was that Asian lady. Oh, sorry, yes. Anyway. Sorry, there was a little petite Japanese lady. Good Lord. D is not wrong. I saw this guy in the porn took his pants off and there was this little Asian lady and I just looked and I said, no fucking way. Like, look at that.

just a pause here good lord d is not wrong i saw this guy in the porn took his pants off and there was this little asian lady and i just looked and i said no fucking way like literally no way that won't go if i saw that i would just be like thanks but no thanks yeah and yet i remind you that we've uh you've had this thing was like i don't even okay so yeah so you're you feel like you were safe and you were surprised I think yeah I was surprised by that and I think that opens you up as well this is one of the downsides is it kind of opens you up emotionally as well to to that particular individual which can be a problem because you can end up with a scenario where like we have had done where they've disappeared or something like that and it it just kind of pisses you off i guess because you've opened you you've opened your relationship and yourself at least somewhat yeah you you expect that there's going to be a level of respect there yes absolutely and then there's not you feel like there's not and so that is yeah i mean i have a fairly simple rule in life is that trust is normally given trust is offered to even when you first meet somebody generally you offer them trust as a as a present straight up right it's only when they break that trust that it becomes a problem uh but the personal accountability part of it is my problem is when your moral compass doesn't point north and you do things that you shouldn't be doing, that is when it really stings because you've then offered somebody trust and they've decided to misuse that trust to do something underhanded.

Yeah. And what do you think is next?

I mean, I know that you're definitely to experience dp and we have admittedly been trying to you know play open up the resources play with some some vibrators and i'm keen for you to experience dp i'm not sure there's a way i could experience dp unless it was dap which i gotta say no that's not gonna work for me you don't want to just say dvp then why do we have to go straight to dap no no no you're saying i want to experience dp i'm saying you yes you want to experience in terms of i would like us as a couple to experience dp well that's not what you said oh i am interested in in in being involved in double penetration with you, yes.

So what else? What else? In terms of, well, that doesn't have to be with a single guy. No, it doesn't. That could be with a couple or with a lady with a strap-on, really. But certainly we need to do some more work on it. I have to backtrack on that because I think that when using a strap-on and having used strap-ons before or double dildos, et cetera, they don't flex and bend like a normal cock does.

So I think that if you're going into this fairly small place and then you're trying to insert a rigid item in there as well, something that really can't bend and flex, I just don't see that helping anyone. So you're saying two buses can't go into a two-car garage? I don't feel like that's helping me. Two buses don't fit in a two-car garage, is that what you're saying? That's what I'm saying. They can. So, yes, what else for you, Dee? Right now, that's probably all that's on my horizon, I suppose.

The only other thing that would be of interest to me and i mean this is going to be a tough one for us because of our level of uh and this is not with single guy this is a couple scenario is is probably finding enough couples that we're into to actually have um something bigger than group sex into sort of the orgy end of the spectrum. So I'm saying better than what's that? I mean, for me, it's generally better than six couples, I'm going to call an orgy. So 12 people. 12 people. Better than 10 people. More than 10 people, I'm going to say, is an orgy. That's just my standard people.

I don know what the standard is so what's your okay well hold on what do you think are different um date strategies or date situations between a single guy and a couple situation i have a much higher expectation of a single guy than i do with couples that's interesting in what in what way so when it comes to it when it comes to a date i have an expectation that they treat it as if they're on a date with you ah okay yes okay so you've said this before i expect them to turn up well-dressed as if they were going on a date we've covered this in the 12 ways to get 12 ways to get into these pants yeah but um so my expectation is much higher because it is one person.

Granted, I don't expect them to pay for our night out. It'd be nice if they offered, but I don't expect them to pay. But yeah, go back and listen to 12 Ways to Get In Deceased Pants.

That's what I expect of them, which is much higher than what I expect of the couple because a couple there's there's much more of a different dynamic going on you can't have the same expectation that both of those individuals will meet that exacting standard you know i've got a i think it's important when you're talking about singles to have a high standard because there's a lot of focus on one individual so they need they they need to meet both both your and my standard to be considered yeah and actually there was again there was a lot of talk recently on some social media sites regarding unicorns and how actually some people that that you know there is this expectation out there that it's the other way around.

Unicorns feel like the couple should be reaching their very high expectations and all the rest of it.

It's funny, though, because oftentimes what sometimes I think people forget is that if a couple is seeking out a third for play, it's about that couple and their relationship, and you're being invited, I guess, intimate um situation so in actual fact i mean each to their own though just to step back a little bit when i say high standard that doesn't mean he has to be ripped awesome uh you know and have a eight inch cock that's not what i my standard is that again he's the only person that's conversing with you so he has to be a gentleman what i mean by that is that before when there's another two people there's four people at the table it's okay for one person to possibly take a step back and not be the height of the conversation or be really involved because you're not they're not that's not the focal point they're able to do that because there's another person yes so the difference there is that yeah maybe the single person does have to kind of bring their a-game because they are the only person there they're they're the person they're relying on to be on time be courteous all of those things kind of with good conversation you're not able to then bounce off your partner but given we've never played with a unicorn i'm not sure we can offer a uh offer any guide you know oh i'm just talking about the there was a post the other day that had 50 comments about it actually so i thought it was an interesting perspective because a lot of people um well oftentimes it's kind of thought the other way but i thought this flipped perspective was quite interesting yeah okay cool and your selection criteria for couples versus single men i mean if you're looking at the guys that we've played with in couples versus the guys that we've played in single situations are they the same person or same personality or same type are they certainly there's a preference toward that but um again because you're now engaged with a couple Thank you.

or same personality or same type are they certainly there's a preference toward that but again because you're now engaged with a couple one may lift the average of the couple you know that when you're engaged with a couple it's very rare that you sit and digest each individual you generally talk about them as a couple so for me if you know if the if the man may not be a great conversationalist but you know he still chimes in he's still interesting when he does Thank you.

generally talk about them as a couple so for me if you know if the if the man may not be a great conversationalist but you know he still chimes in he's still interesting when he does but the lady spends more time talking then that sort of balances out you know i don't really see a problem with that when it's one person it is there's much more onus on that person to be like you said at their i go yeah and i think too that with this this next guy that we've been talking to last night and and i hope we catch up with for a date it was actually very funny because d and i had a conversation last night he he instantly admitted this new guy that he actually is in an open relationship they play separately ethically non-monogamous relationship his wife actually prefers poly and and sees men on her own he sees women um on his or couples on on his own and he he offered that information straight away and he actually then further went into well here's actually some of these are our rules these are our rules and boundaries um and he offered all of this information and instantly d and i went jeez how do how do we feel about that it's not he's not cheating well initially you felt it was quite funny actually because initially you were like nah nah no i didn't say no i was like yeah i don't know how i feel about that and then d said well realistically there is no difference if he is able to play what what is the ethical dilemma and there there really is none i mean he has no problems and has mentioned her even last night what they like to do together in terms of they enjoy rock climbing together you know all these sorts of things he's mentioned her number of times so he offered that information straight away he spoke about his rule and boundaries he's talking about her openly in communication because they're obviously, you know, together and they love each other and they're friends.

So is there a dilemma? I don't think so. Well, no, I didn't think so either. And I thought, you know, my point was magical and crisp about how their rules are just different to ours. That's correct. And magical, I think, is probably... Your comment last night was actually, well, each relationship is different. Their rules, their boundaries work for them. So in actual fact, if we don't have any concerns from our side, then there really is no concern. Yeah. Okay.

One quick thing before we get off this topic and talk about performance, but we did receive a message from I Dream of Sailing, and he asked us a question that he wanted us to cover up okay he said that on a lot of the swinging podcasts that he found that the men may sometimes explicitly point out that they are not bisexual don't engage with men etc and he said what did we think the difference was in asia and australia for bisexual male based male female male or male male female play and was there in our experience being living in asia living in australia and traveling an awful lot to the states and engaging a lot in the states did we think that there was a difference in acceptance of bisexual play i would say probably not you don't think there's a difference um i i think honestly i think most people are reasonably accepting of it in the lifestyle but i don't think it's spoken of as often as um as bisexuality for female it's it's still seen as somewhat of the last, well, not theoo it's not it's not taboo it's just a last area people use the word taboo often when they talk about this it's not it's not taboo no but they use it in terms of like oh you know we're the only ones talking about it because it is so taboo or look at how fantastic we are bringing this up because it's taboo i don't think it's taboo at all I think it gets spoken about but maybe not so much on air maybe or through podcasts or radio etc as it perhaps does in a conversation I mean we talk about bisexual men and female interactions often with couples and single men that we date I mean even the guy last night when we were talking to him we were talking about well what are you interested in what have you done in the past and we have through a one-hour conversation already spoken to him about bisexual male play and so is it different between them i mean i actually think yes it is a little bit i think that in the states you definitely have you know i, an area where there is a lot of religion that places a lot of strain on people openly discussing or engaging in bisexual play.

You think that's entirely different in Australia?

Then you have places like here where you can be bisexual female, but it is actually still illegal to be a gay man here and then in australia we have a smaller population and we're also quite a young country so maybe we haven't hit a sexual peak and ability to recognize sexuality but it is getting there and you look at things like the recent yes vote etc we are starting to definitely recognize it a little bit more but the population in the united states the vast geographical area i think probably if you look at it based on numbers alone it would be that they're less accepting okay what's your opinion you think it's the same everywhere i already gave you my opinion i do i think it's the same i think it it's just the cross-section of the population, the head count of the cross-section is different.

That's the only difference. Yeah. I think, if anything, in certain Asian countries, it's probably more accepted to be gay or... Bisexual. Well, no, pick a spectrum. Pick a spectrum.

I think in certain asian countries it's more accepted uh certainly thailand rings out to me as one of the countries where where any form of sexuality is considered not frightening and not scary even though some of it may still be considered not legal it never stops people from actually achieving that i mean it's no different in any other country it might be illegal here but there's at least four well-known gay bars in in singapore exactly so that being the case i think it's just the cross the cross section of the community i'm gonna throw something in in the mix now he didn't specifically mention this in his question to us but we play with a lot of europeans right we actually play with a lot of europeans here more than we would play with americans americans are very rare in this country if you're thinking about the europeans we've played with and the discussions that we've had either with our single male like spanish single males or really our french french couples or french single males what what do you think is the difference there do you think, you're about to ask me, do I think Europeans are more open sexually than the US?

Like every other country or in the case of Europe, which is a grouping of countries that when you add them all together about the same size as Australia or the US and probably roughly the same sort of population as well when when you do that i think you end up with state-wise and or country-wise in europe different countries different states different feelings it all stems from what we grew up with as a as a country or as a as a state what i should something i should a caveat i should put on this and you know this to be true as well we've found that the countries that are more catholicism based historically are actually more sexually open when it comes to being in ethically non-monogamous relationships that's very true so any of the any of the countries throughout the rest of the world that have a different religious history seem to have a different take on it uh don't get me wrong some are actually significantly more open depending on which which uh which religion you're talking about but we have found through our travels throughout asia and know a lot of the world the countries that are Catholicism based are more open to this sort of lifestyle yeah that's very true so we hope that answers your question as always these opinions are our opinions so feel free to disagree yeah there's no dramas I mean that's that's the beautiful world that we live in the beautiful community we we live in.

We all have different opinions on things, so it's great. Definitely keen for everyone's opinion. Hi there, it's Naughty. And Rocket. And we're making a bit of a recording because C's asked us for some chat on what we like about MFM 3tham.

We have been involved in this for maybe 10 years, we got into it pretty slowly through taking sexy photos actually and sharing those online and getting some good responses to those, and we also live regionally in so we don't play in our hometown so it's not unusual for us to go six or twelve months between playdates or even just meets so slow entry into the lifestyle but that's been fine that's worked for us we're both straight so the logical entry point for us was MFM threesomes a bit easier to organise than couples and easier to find a single man.

So the first time for us was probably about 10 years ago and that slow ramp up hasn't been a bad thing because it allowed us some time to explore what we really wanted and there's a fair bit of time from me spent in reassuring Rocket that it wasn't about me. I wasn't aiming to have other women on the side or anything like that. It was just about this fantasy that we both had shared in the bedroom at different times of having another male join us and her getting double the pleasure.

So what do we like about MFM for instance well for me still the photography side of things is is part of it but it's it's linked to that live porn in front of you that you're seeing that's very hot that's i just find that really amazing to watch at times and just sit back and take it all in i'm probably appreciating the photography more now too that we've got some really good hookups that we can then go back and look at pictures and there's not always photos but we've had an ongoing relationship with a very lovely mannequin who's been right into being the model as well so we've had some great photos to look back on for me it's probably more about the new relationship energy stuff definitely the social side of it as well if we can meet people that we can have an ongoing bit of fun with that's always a benefit so what's in it for you a big bit for me was also that really focusing on you and and providing you with pleasure i don't think there is anything hotter than seeing you come.

So getting you into a position where two guys could be concentrating on you and really trying to provide you with that pleasure was a really big thing for me. I think there's also some other things that have come up probably more recently. Now, going back to the first time, there were some things, and it's that learning stuff about the other person that you didn't know. And I remember classically in that first time that we played with someone, he grabbed you around the hips in a certain way, and you really reacted to that, and I hadn't realised that was a thing for you.

And we'd probably done it bits and pieces, but it became a thing that I went, ah, well, there's something that I wasn't 100% aware of. But sitting back a bit, you actually get to see it a bit easier, and maybe I just need to be more sensitive and concentrate more on what's happening around me. But that certainly showed, that has followed on through with a whole range of different things that we've picked up from guys doing stuff differently and your reactions. And I think another one that you would probably agree with from what I've seen is it's partly about the just, the naughtiness of it.

It's doing something that's a bit naughty, and it is about that social aspect of someone you can go out, have a meal with, go have a few drinks with, and at times be very flirty out in public with, and have other people going, what the hell's going on over there?

I know that's a few times we've had that Hua Hin was probably the the pick of those which is a story in its own but that's that side of things about being naughty out in public in a relatively contained way so you wouldn't be arrested but other people are sort of reacting to what's happening is has had its moments where it's really lifted our interest and given us some good fun yeah and having some really successful interactions because we had a real period of time where we could i was just about over it just didn't think it was worth the trouble and then we've had some really successful interactions in the last 12 months and you it just ramps up your own sex life they call it a purple patch for a reason yeah and that's definitely that would have been the next thing that i was saying is that ramp up in our fun because we are you're sexed up you're in a moment where you're feeling sexy everything's happening everything's working and that just flows into everything really and you know hours spent flirting via text um and then into bed together or whatever it is that it ends up being that's really had payoffs for us as well okay so if we interpret the question from c as what do we like about male female male that we wouldn't get in another scenario with other people that were involved what were some of the things that you would highlight there i think that mfm now isn't necessarily strictly all we do which it was in the past and largely that was because if you had said to me in the early days let's find a couple to swap with I would have said no so initially I wasn't interested in getting into the lifestyle because it meant us being with other people hence you convincing me that no no this is all about someone increasing the attention that you're getting and the pleasure you're getting and that's the only reason you telling me you didn't want it to be with another woman that we got into in the first place so is that because of a desire not to be seen as a swinger or is it well I definitely don't like that label and will never own that label but But, no, it's more about you being mine and me not wanting to share.

I like it it's interesting because one of the things that I do get off on from a male female male thing is related to that and it's so not politically correct in the swinger environment these days is that pride in you because I don't clearly don't own you so therefore I shouldn't have any pride in whatever you do but seeing you do some amazing action watching you is is a real thing for me so it is part of that stuff and in another interaction that becomes diluted because if there's more than three people, then I'm involved elsewhere as well. You don't see what's going on. Yeah, so exactly.

If I'm really just one of two guys concentrating on you, I can get to see just about everything as long as we are in the same room together. Hey, you're a dirty perv. That's very true. And we shouldn't forget the number one fantasy, which was really one of the big reasons for male-female-male being a preference, simply because it seems to be more practical to be doing this, but the double penetration was a big thing for us. Oh, yeah, definitely.

So that still there as a as a thing that's probably more suited to a male female male situation than a whatever other set of circumstances you can come up with and still needs to be properly ticked off the list because it's not as easy as it looks thanks cnd hope you find some useful stuff in this and we'll chat again see ya so now we're moving on to the issue of male performance. Now, there's a bit of a crossover here, of course, with the single male scenario, because if this happens in a single male scenario, then it makes life really quite difficult.

But what we're not going to do, again, there has been a lot of coverage on this over over the period what we're not going to do is cover how to get how to recover from this because i honestly don't think that if you get in the if you actually make it to the wrong headspace i don't believe there is a way to recover that that's my opinion um and i think the majority of people realize that i've not really had much in the way of performance issues in the past so i can't really give much of an opinion on that what i can give an opinion on and i think what c will be able to help out with as well is how not to get yourself into a scenario where a performance issue is something that could become a problem yeah so i guess just as dean mentioned there's been a lot of coverage on this recently and a lot of podcasts actually episode what have i got here swinger diaries did episode number 55 and they actually touched on performance issues in in the lifestyle and we were going to cover off on how to manage it during when it's happening and what we what i originally thought for that is really from both a male and a female perspective a couple perspective a single perspective because as you may as you may remember we went i went through six months of having experiencing this issue and so i was going to give some insight into really how that made me feel as a single fee as a sorry as a female pretty sure you've done that very and um really quite vocally so we're not going to cover that so d d had a great idea this morning and it was really how do you i've noticed a trend throughout this podcast that d's had just awesome things happen this week like he's he's got great ideas, good things, soapbox, you know.

You're killing it, babe. I'm killing it. Magic. You're amazing. Oh, man, it's just crazy. It's a cross to bear. We've all got our cross to bear. This week I've been awesome. After this week for the rest of my life, I won't be. So Dee said, you know, why don't we talk about how to recognize signs and how to then avoid the situation. Now, I have a question before we get started on that, though. You've had a lot of questions today. I have. I feel I've answered them amazingly. Okay. This is, again, the week of Dee. You're literally patting yourself on the back throughout this entire podcast.

I know. I've been doing really well today. Yeah, okay. So... At patting myself on the back. Percentage of single male performance failures versus males in the couples, what's happening there? I would likely say that there's a higher percentage of failures in a couple dynamic. I would say that we haven't had one single male performance failure. I know we haven't. We've had six months of couple failure.

But there's a reason that i say that is because when you're in the room with your partner your wife husband whatever it is whatever you want to call that relationship you're going to be thinking of them as well there's always a level of your attention a small amount of your attention it may only be five percent of your total brain that is taken away to make sure that they're safe happy and not in harm's way and also you're also interested in what they're doing in terms of their sexual pleasure yeah but that's that we're talking about something different there right because now you look if you convert convert that to say pornography you're watching porn whilst fucking your partner there's no level of angst there is there no because you're so it's not about the sexual pleasure that somebody else is enjoying i don't think i think it's more about the fact that genetically not genetically maybe socially we're programmed to really look out for the people we care about that's just part of the nature of being a social beast so i don't have a penis Thank you.

look out for the people we care about that's just part of the nature of being a social beast so i don't have a penis so this is very difficult for me to understand really the inner working we had one a little earlier of of this sort of thing but i mean explain to me i mean obviously well i assume that you would know the difference or you would feel differently or understand get the sensation differently of you know that you're going to be extremely hard or you know that you're going to have maybe be a little bit softer or i mean tell me run me through that i'm not sure what the question was do you know when you're going to have a half half-assed hard-on or it's going to be like do i know when i I'm going to have performance issues?

No, that's not what I'm asking. Oh. Go? Your cock is not the same hardness every time you play. Hardiosity, mate. It's hardiosity. That's the word. So, do you know when it's not going to be as hard as the day before? Okay, so there's a few things involved in this, of course. Alcohol, one, will reduce any man's formation of erection bam i mean if you don't know that then you've never been 18 how much alcohol would you say uh depends on the person in some cases it can be one glass in some cases it can be one whole 750 mil bottle of vodka It just depends on the guy.

So I think you've got to learn your own your own way there and certainly i mean the way i figured it out i suppose is just through jerking off if you can't get yourself off because you're that pissed then so you're saying if you're at a play situation you think you might have over lickered yourself go into the bathroom and start masturbating and see no because then you'll then you'll probably get yourself off and then if you get yourself off you're going to be fucking useless you at least then try to see if you get hard well i mean that's i think we're going into a different realm here if you're if you're in a play situation when you walk into a play situation generally i think is probably one of the most exciting aspects especially if it's somebody new so if you're walking into a play situation and you can't gain or sustain an erection, and I don't mean sustain, as you walk in, then you probably got yourself in trouble already.

So your recommendation would be then if you sense that you get into the room, you haven't got a hard-on as you the room or as you're seeing you know the possibility of play you would recommend to just say hey i don't think i'd actually i'd actually step back a little because frankly speaking normally there's some pre-play prior to heading to the bedroom it's not that you just go okay you know we've been talking for 25 minutes now let's go to the bedroom generally there's some touching some you know there's something there that prompts a reaction from a man i think understanding your own body and understanding well okay uh she's touched my upper thigh i've been drinking a little bit this is you know you have to use your your brain when it comes to what inputs are making for a failed erection so for example you've just Thank you.

you know you have to use your your brain when it comes to what inputs are making for a failed erection so for example you've just had a fight with your partner before the other couples arrived you haven't yet finalized that she's touched the inside of your thigh or or the or your cock through your pants uh while you're talking you've been talking sexual sexually or sexily with them you're watching your partner and they seem engaged and into the other person uh you then think well let's take this to the bedroom i think your thought process is wrong there straight up if you've got all these inputs that are driving you to not be able to get an erection and one of those may simply be fear one of the things i think men are very bad at dealing with is fear we just we just try to like like every problem and every problem that most men run into they're looking immediately for a solution in some cases there is no solution in some cases the only way to move forward is to step back yeah so that that's for me is the biggest thing so your advice is not to try and have this happen in the bedroom and then have you know the wives kind of come back and circulate back around and then try to fix it your advice is to see the signs of what they are before you're going into play and just not engage in play yeah i mean i think we're all better off it's much less embarrassing i mean don't get me wrong i know for every man who has this problem every man that i've spoken to who's had this problem it's generally an embarrassing scenario right so you've already gotten if you've gotten to the point where you can't gain or maintain an erection you're already into embarrassment so you're fucked you're not going to recover from that in my mind to my mind you will not recover from an embarrassing situation because you're already embarrassed so stack that on top of all of the other things that led up to the problem and then actually having having the situation where it's like oh we better get the wife back around to get the hard on going again that's actually more pressure and more embarrassing and i think that's actually bad advice i mean it can be if you can't then gain an erection with your with your wife then life's really difficult isn't it you know you're now adding embarrassment and depending on your partner i mean we've certainly been in a situation where we've had a wife who's like what are you doing why can't you get hard look at look at him over there he's hard.

He's hard and he's fucking her and you can't even fuck me. I mean, we've had that and it was horrible. That sort of embarrassment. So if you're tired, if you're having other inputs, if you're drunk, if you're nervous. Well, tired, drunk, nervous, overstimulated is another one. You know, we all do get to a point where there's too much going on. So overstimulated is another one.

Another very simple one fuck's sake guys drink some goddamn water right i mean so your blood is constituted primarily of water if you're not drinking enough water you're going to have a problem right it's very simple additionally you know there's all the other problems with not having enough water headaches and shit it's the other thing if you've got pain headaches if you're on if you've got a cold or flu potentially that you think you might have or you might have coming or you're just recovering from one all of those things will influence your body's natural ability to do what you want it to do and And I think for all involved too, it's probably better to recognize those signs.

Call it a night. There's no shame. You don't have to say why you're calling it a night. Not shame. Shame is a different word to embarrassment. There's no, yeah. But it's better than getting into a room and you feeling like you're not performing, your partner feeling strange about it. Well, what this normally it, feeling strange with the other couple and potentially ruining what or… In a lot of instances, this will be a first-time, potentially a first-time play scenario as well because that's when the highest pressure is to perform. Right.

So you're now looking at a first-time play scenario where you've embarrassed what you believe is yourself, but in fact, the embarrassment is all inside you. Most people don't really care, provided it's not something that's been happening to them for the last extended period of time. Yeah. And what that might do is because of your embarrassment, you may not be able to go and see those people again.

So you've invested all this time, energy, you found good people who you like enough to take to the bedroom you forced it because you forced it because you think that you think that it's a good idea to do this but in fact what you should be saying is hey guys this is just not the right night for it why is it you know i say this without saying that women ever use these as excuses because they're not an excuse. Women use these because they are things that come up. I've got my period. There's no problem with that, right? No. So immediately it's like, okay, that's fine.

Well, I guess we're not playing tonight, right? Straight away. There's also, you know, I'm just not feeling it tonight, things like that. Why is it that men feel that they can't say those things out loud?

you know i i just don't think know i'm just not i'm not feeling it tonight things like that why is it that men feel that they can't say those things out loud you know i i just don't think that i'm i just don't think that i'm in the right headspace to perform to the way i want to perform you know that's not a bad thing to say no it's not and actually i think that you know it can actually be good for the next lead up as well you know then you might feel more comfortable and also you can then try to understand what has triggered you to feel that way was it nerves um were you anticipating it for too long have you been actually just talking about it i know a lot of people even on things like kick conversations sometimes they get a bit carried away prior to the play date you know when they're sending each other sexy photos and they're talking about like what i'm gonna do to you and that builds up this anticipation and this and pressure and pressure to then perform so i think also sometimes yeah you need to allow that to happen a bit organically not be forcing it and saying hey man i can't wait until we see each other saturday i'm gonna bend you i'm gonna fuck you so hard you it just needs to be a bit more organic.

So you're not putting that extra pressure on yourself even before you turn up to the date. Agreed. So, yeah, I think it all comes down to being self-accepting and self-aware before you walk into the room. The other thing, guys, okay, you're a full-swap couple. Guess what? You're still allowed to soft-swap.

You know um okay you're a full swap couple guess what you're still allowed to soft swap you know if you're going into a room thinking i'm not i don't feel that i'm going to be able to perform tonight because of the pressure at work because of the fight we just had but you know we we still want to be engaged with this couple and we still want to have some fun soft swap involves no erectile function whatsoever you can you don't need to be involved you don't need to be hard to be involved in a soft swap at all yeah you could be going down on her well not only that the lady can be playing with you as well you don't necessarily have to have a hard cop to be interested in what's going on yeah but i mean again that can be quite awkward for a lady who's engaging in it can be but you can also explain that right up front as well if you have the courage to do it the majority of people who are in this lifestyle have had the courage whether it's the male or the female to actually step up and ask their partner whether they'd be interested in in being in this lifestyle that takes a lot more courage with your partner than it does to say to somebody else's partner hey guess what i'm not going to be hard tonight i'm So, let's go.

in being in this lifestyle that takes a lot more courage with your partner than it does to say to somebody else's partner hey guess what i'm not going to be hard tonight i'm still happy to play with you i'm still happy to enjoy enjoy it but i just i have concerns and i want to voice those up front and the amount of pressure that that would that relieves from you immediately you may actually then later play absolutely and i guess yeah so the other thing yeah one thing you could do is avoid it the second thing is that you can up front advise what the play situation is going to be like so maybe it is same rim sex maybe it is um soft swap only maybe you know that that you walk in there and you say hey this is a situation for me right now instead of let's trying to do um full swap etc and then i'm going to possibly have some performance issues why don't we just straight out of the gate just say this is what we're going to be doing tonight because of these reasons and let's have some fun yeah so i think it's more about establishing and understanding yourself up front for the for those guys who have been in this situation where you've had a performance issue what drove that i mean think back what what drove the performance issue was it that you overloaded yourself in in saying the things that you were going to do to the person was it that you hadn't drunk enough water was it that you didn't eat beforehand you know was it that you were hungry when you walked in was it the fact that you didn't bring your own condoms and the condoms that they had there didn't work for you you know understand what works for you i have a favorite condom um i've never had a problem with any other condom but i have a favorite condom just because i like it you know it's just my favorite so i bring those with me everywhere would you say that i have any um requirements or i should be keeping an eye out for potential signs from you and what i would see as well i mean do you think that they're that the partner should beforehand i'm not talking i mean it's very obvious during play yeah it's very obvious that when it's happening during play there's something happening or not happening um is is there perhaps signs beforehand that i should be aware of as your partner looking out i think there's there's always an onus on a partner to not put their partner in a bad situation.

So, yes. If they seem stressed, if they seem nervous, there's also no harm in perhaps as your partner asking, how's it like, are you feeling good? Like, how are you feeling? Are you ready to play? Do you want to play?

Do you want to go home well that all of those questions you just ask any man will answer yes because they're generally chock full of bravado then what should the female do the to my mind the only way to deal with it is to say let's not do this if you recognize so i'll reverse this let me put the situation in reverse you're actually not interested in this couple I can see that you're not interested or i can see that you're going to be um not as engaged as i would think that you need to be to be pleasured by the experience to have a good experience if you continue to say yes does the onus not fall on me for me to say i'm not happy with you going ahead with this we're not going to do it yeah but that's a really hard thing to say because i mean if you're hearing me say yes and i'm i'm lying to you because no man has ever heard a woman say everything's fine yeah but that's what i mean really that responsibility lies back it's not on you it's on mean, I'm telling you that everything's good.

I'm telling you that there's a green light. I'm happy. I'm good. You are not a mind reader. So the flip side of that, no one's a mind reader. I don't think it's a fair... Of course not, but we make those assumptions every day in our relationship, don't we? Yeah, that's true as well.

You know, how many times has there been simply when we're going out to dinner just together and I can look at you and I say you want to go out and you're like, well, in your head I can hear, we've already committed to this, we've booked a table, we've been committed, we haven't been out on a date for a little while, we need to do it. But you say, and out of your mouth comes, yeah, yeah, everything's fine.

And I can tell that what you want to do is sit on the couch in front of the tv and possibly watch some really fucking lame chick flick or a lame horror movie or a lame horror movie yeah one of the two so so i think yeah i agree the onus does fall on the person to give the right communication back but yeah we all we're all human we all have our own uh armor we wear to make ourselves feel better and look better at some stages it just it's it requires that somebody else steps in and says no that's not okay now before we finish up on this topic there is something that i want to say about it and it's that if you are having continual problems if you are experiencing performance issues with multiple play partners or through multiple sessions etc please do something about that before continuing to engage and i'm coming at that from a very personal angle um i've had this issue happen to me multiple times and actually one lady openly admitted to me that oh yeah he he has problems every time but you know i always get fucked so it's fine that is not fair it's not fair for anyone involved that's actually just not okay if you yeah it's not okay it's it's not okay for the the man the the woman that you're trying to be with it's not fair on even my husband who's also concerned that i'm not you know receiving the pleasure that that he wants me to be so please stop engaging please stop going out and doing that until you have figured out the issue and and fix the problem because you're just continuing to also hurt yourself and hurt other people because it is a very i took it very personally that it was me, and that's not the case.

Well, you will continue to pile on as well. because I took it very personally that it was me and that's not the case. Well, you will continue to pile on as well. If you've had the issue a couple of times and the issue continues to happen, you're going to continue to add more stress to your own environment. The expectations walking into the next play session are going to be, God, I hope I don't have issues.

And as soon as you start thinking about that, the issues are going to raise it's true anything else you want to say on that um no not really i think i think the reality of it is that every guy will go through this issue actually what i should say is every person will go through this issue um because i think ladies go through it as well i think they just have the ability to apply lubricant where the guys don't so you know I don't think this is strictly a man's issue I think it's just more obvious when there's an issue with the man absolutely yeah and you're 100% correct that women can you know fake it till you make it as it is so I it is more obvious when it's when it's a man unfortunately and there is a there is i guess more discussion about male performance issues as opposed to female performance issues so maybe we cover female performance issues in another podcast actually very interested to hear from ladies of female performance issues and i'm not talking about um the the reach to orgasm because orgasm isn't the end all of of uh sexual experience you know it it may be a crescendo but it doesn't necessarily have to happen every time or ever for that matter um i mean obviously it'd be nicer if it did but it doesn't have to that being the case it's more to me about true performance issues like i i i'm just not feeling it um i i was nervous going in i was going in i fumbled like now i'm unable to get wet i'm in my own head thinking about the fact that i'm not really you know i'm not really enjoying this i don't think i can do my best job shit do i want to go down on him not really but i'm going to do it because i'm in the situation you know know, like all that sort of thing.

That's still performance issues. Yeah, send us an email. So cnd at swingingdownunder.com. Flick us an email on that if you are a female and have experienced, or if you're a male and you have experienced a female who's had performance issues. You know, we want to hear it from both sides. So do send that through. Yeah. I think it's a good time to wrap it up. So if you are anywhere in Sydney on the 16th of February, Dee and I will be at our secret spot. They are having a fishnets party. Did you know that? Yeah. I already told you. I bought the fish. I'm going to bring the nets.

Yeah, you bring the nets. I'm going to bring the fish. We are so sympathetic. I'm going to hang anchovies around my neck. We'll see how that gets me laid. Not at all. Definitely not from this lady.

Oh, you don't like anchovies no i hate them i know that but i think i'm actually really excited about caesar salad love a caesar salad though but i hate anchovies i am go figure very excited i know you're very excited about the fishnets party and it'll be good to get uh back down and see our friends at oss as well yeah so if you guys are in the sydney area on the 16th feb come come into uh say hello. I'd love to meet you. Yeah, C will be the weird one with anchovies around a neck. D will be the weird one with anchovies and sitting in a corner because nobody wants to say hello. I'm just saying.

I already have my outfit in mind. It's going to be a replication of what I wore to desire. Well, I mean, blow the hole.

I mean, if people have been to Desire, they're not going to want to come now are they like i've seen it come on i like that outfit i'm damn excited hey yeah yeah i feel like i'm gonna get a little bit laid a little bit laid i hope i get laid fingers crossed fingers crossed fingers placed inappropriately thanks for listening guys this is c this is d and this is swinging down under one more quick announcement before you finish up the podcast today we have just joined with sls radio so if you listen to sls radio you can hear us on their radio station at 4 p.m every Wednesday.

So tune in and get turned on.