P49 – We Finally Got Them Drunk Enough

Transcript

Hi there, my name is C. I'm D. And you're listening to Swinging Down Under. Our journey is a couple through the swinging lifestyle. Are you into open relationships? Or exploring new things in life? This is our podcast. Experiences. Both good and bad. Reviews and events. And more. Here's Swinging Down Under. Come on. Join us. This is C. And this is D. And this is swinging down under. And this is Dee. And this is Swinging Down Under. And this is the longest introduction in the history of our podcast. So we have two guests in front of us, Mr. and Mrs. Belay, but I've been asked to say Mr.

Magnificent Presto. Sure. Whatever you feel is appropriate. Well well that's not the directive you gave me ten minutes ago was this I demand I say a lot of things okay well yes welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much indeed. Yes, we're thrilled to be here. Yay. Thanks for flying us out, all the accommodation and expenses paid. You guys really put on a great package.

We really do package The shangalas are lovely The buffet is incredible The limo was amazing And the suite on the Singapore area is fantastic So thank you so much for that You're welcome Nothing but the 380 for you folk So yeah I've been wanting to get you guys on for like a year Finally I feel like we've pl've plied Mrs. Belay with enough wine that actually it's happening. Just so we can – am I going to play her voice back afterward just so she flips out? Enough wine. It's going to be my new mobile phone ringtone for her. It's her voice just on the podcast constantly. She's not said anything.

She's not okay with that. Oh, yes. And also recordings of Mr. Belay. Anything you want to say? Any retractions or comments or discussions? I'll write every statement I've made, whether drunk or sober. Good.

So what we wanted to talk about is actually we received a really interesting email earlier about people's experience in the lifestyle being different from everyone else's and not feeling like you are obliged to participate in the lifestyle in a certain way or that you are obliged to perhaps follow through from being soft swap to full swap or heterosexual to bisexual or whatever the case may be and I thought your story was an interesting one because I wanted to talk to people about how you guys started and where you are now just to give an insight into the fact that you don't have to be that pegged into that one box of we're going to start with this, we're going to progress into this or whatever.

So please share. Well, we met in prison when Mrs. Belay was also a man. That's only partially. Are you already regretting your decision to have us on the show? She swears like a sailor, so, I mean, I suspected it as much. Also, the sideburns kind of gave it away. Those mutton chops really kind of brush my pussy the wrong way during sex. It's weird. They are. They're good for holding on to. The way they blow in the wind as well, it's amazing. That's exactly correct. The way you've managed to comb them over? I don't know. We have to actually get something here apart from us just making...

Pulling the piss....witches at each other.

personally from what you said there is the idea of the whole lifestyle aspect of it is um i think it's only a lifestyle because there are certain expectations built up around it um for us it's just kind of life that makes sense it's not kind of a subset we're trying to label ourselves with or take part in necessarily it's just where we ended up yeah i don't think we belong to a particular group and i think we're often quite loved to use the word lifestyle as such it's a valid point actually because some people really hate the term swinger so people use the lifestyle as an alternative to saying the word swinger but in actual fact when you say the lifestyle it almost adds a connotation the fact that that is a life that is everything that you do or it's a significant part or you know so maybe well if that were the case it would be cheese and wine for you guys that's what I'm gonna label cheesy whiny style you know restaurants and clubs and bars but you, wine bars and cocktail bars and restaurants and stuff.

As Dee passes the bottle of wine across the microphone. Exactly, but it's not a lifestyle. It's just how we happen to live. Sorry. It's how we live our life in a style. Sorry, see, you asked the right question. You asked how we got started. I did. So, first of all, long have you guys been together? Because I think that's a pivotal piece of information. We have been together for 312 years. So you're that shark that you were talking about earlier. We're a green man shark. We've been together for 19 years? Yes.

Since, no, we're coming 18 years thank god they both agreed on that because you know it's really awkward when one person says like 17 one says 19 25 there's stabbings involved but we first dated when we were 14 and then you separated and came back yeah so we've been together for 18 years we've been married for 13 come back to 13 yes next month 12 yes 12 12 Thank you. 18 years. We've been married for 13? Come back to 13? Yes. Next one. 12? Yes. 12 or 13? 12. I like it. It does not. Honestly, it's one of those things we find that arbitrary doesn't matter particularly.

So we've been together for a very long time and we didn't go looking for this as a way to fix it. That makes sense. That's really important actually because some people, and it's not necessarily the right way to go about it. You're right. Neither is getting a dog or having a baby, just an FYI, for anyone out there who's thinking about that. God damn it, I really want a dog, though. Sorry, carry on. I'm actually holding out for a hybrid of the two. Hairy baby. Hairy baby. So I can get into it? Well, there was tequila. Hang on, is tequila a code name for some woman?

Yeah, her name was tequila I saw in a CD bar. She was very wet. We had a lovely lunch with a good friend. A good bisexual friend. And we drank some champagne, and then we drank some tequila, and then the music started playing, and then we all ended up in bed together. Is this in Paris? No. This is Wales and Sydney. So, sorry, to complete the timeline, we've actually only been in the lifestyle, I guess, for three years. Three years? Okay. So we met you guys pretty, I guess, one year in, right? Yeah, a half. Yeah, okay.

um so we yeah we've liked this friend for a long time i've always had um a patient uh uh an attraction to certain um well women she loves the badge in general she's hoping to get put in jail all right i think as we've said on various profiles on various media we we have you know kinsey provided a scale a scale, so if you want us to place ourselves on the Kinsey scale, you'd be a... Four. Okay, well, you can learn, but I'd say a strong nine. It only goes up to five, you realize this. Yes, I do. That's definitely a nine out of five. Six, because that's six. Six? Yeah, it does. It. That's a five.

Six. And I'd probably be a cheat, so I don't know whether that corresponds to bisexual or heteroclassical, or I don't really know. I'll tell you what it defines to. It defines to whatever you decide you are. Well, I've always... Well, no, there's a more than incidentally heterosexual, more than incidentally homosexual type thing. I'm probably more than incidentally homosexual. It seems, yes, worse. I've always said to people when they've asked, I'm just kind of slutty. Yes.

You're more than incidentally heter it seemed yes whereas i'm i've always said to people one day last time this kind of stuff yes you're more than incidentally no and you know what let's like put a pin in that because i want to i was talking about the use of the word slut recently on twitter and i had some like backlash actually about the term slut so let's put a pin in that we'll come back to it but so let's put it in the parking lot so So you guys tabletop all right so um so you had a threesome that night I'm assuming i'm assuming yes i yeah and the next morning so you stayed over we did because it was late and there was no chance of going home and you know that's an interesting point we did stay over and was that fine for you the whole staying over like that did that when you spoke the next day i can't sleep three in the bed so i eventually gave up and went and slept on the sofa because three in the bed is just too fucking difficult doesn't matter well they you know there's that old rhyme about four in the bed and the little ones that roll over it really doesn't it kind of doesn't work so i mean the next morning for you guys then when you were talking talking about what happened, had the whole idea of the fact that you had stayed the night, had that been any sort of interest or consequence or discussion topic?

No, honestly, that was the least considered part. I don't think you understand how much tequila we don't have.

I was so stoked at the fact that she finally actually slept with a woman okay that so that was part of it so had you discussed about your mrs belay's interest in women previously um had you discussed you know the fact that had that been a topic of discussion you know you wanted to be with a woman or experience it or had it just been you were kind of keeping that to yourself and then it just kind of came out no no he married me going you're so gay you're gonna leave me for another woman oh my god you're so gay i was like no no no i'm not because that was actually my voice yeah that was it i bet your folks were really surprised by that um no he'd always known he'd always known since well since we were 19 He turns me on I think it's gonna be really be really sexually amazing but equally i'm not a lesbian because i don't want to spend the rest of my life with a woman that's not how i identify so and i'm in love with my life partner who's male so it's just one of those sexual fantasies so i just left it alone for years and years and years but yes meeting this bisexual friend and um hearing some of her stories and i guess feeding off that energy and she's quite she does give off that level of sexual um energy and vibe so it was a really lovely experience but in a way i'm quite upset that it took such a long time for me to finally experience that for the first time when it was obviously something i was curious about before but i didn't know if i was enough buy or whatever to even investigate it.

I just thought it was a fantasy. Sorry, we're laughing across the table here that you're enough buy. It's like, tell us who you are. Well, but that's been 20 odd years of not having had a chance to do it.

So I guess I missed out in my teenage years at university when it is something I could have been been exploring but i didn't think i wanted to i just thought it was a little fantasy also exploration a really interesting point because a lot of people say that they wish they had done something about the way that they're feeling or about their sexuality or interest in sex it's not so perverse etc it's not taboo just sex in general just sex in general Like maybe even in their own relationship, like, hey, actually, I'm kind of interested in a little bit of light BDSM, but they don't talk to their partner about it, and so they don't experience it.

And then finally, 20 years later, they do, and they're like actually have wasted a bit of time.

Well, yeah, the length of time you could have spent doing those kinds of things, but at the same time you also, especially when you've been in a relationship as long as us, us you kind of grow up together so there's some stuff that i wouldn't have been interested in trying earlier on and actually us playing together with other people i wouldn't have been able to handle in my early 20s because i would have felt insecure and i would have felt jealous and all of that goes away as you get older and you just go it's fine and you know each other and you've got that bedrock of relationship and it's it's okay so I couldn't have done that in the way that we did it wouldn't have worked I could explore it separately on my own when I was a student and not dating him so so the next morning and then after like how what what was the the moment from then having a random tequila fueled threesome that in and of itself is the interesting part of the story I guess you would say the moment from then having a random tequila-fueled threesome to...

That, in and of itself, is the interesting part of the story, I guess you would say. So we both, and we've talked about this a lot, I mean, we both basically fell apart with this third party simultaneously. Because she was already a good friend that we talked with, so it's a similar sort of interest to us. I wanted to clarify that. This wasn't somebody that we knew was bisexual, therefore we targeted her to fulfill some sort of desire. It wasn't that at all. She was just a very, very good friend and it happened.

That's the way it transpired and then it just got kind of better from there for a while, but I think because it was our first experience of that facet of life, and it wasn't hers, we probably came on a little strong. And we recognize now with, you know, three years of dating other people, so I'm under our belt, but we probably came on a little strong and maybe scared her off slightly.

But I if you said those both and i would be happy to have still been with her now and never necessarily with anybody else yes we probably would yeah although yeah but the breadth of experience has been interesting yeah well i'm taking offense to it directly straight away i mean uh yeah i think we offense to it where's the awkward balloon should we end the podcast now I think we should actually I think just to clarify up front here for the listeners the fact that mrs.

belay rejected us the first time we approached them that's because of your lifestyle yes so yes we were rejected by the Belayers. Not rejected, I would say ignored. I'm looking at you through a fog of brie right now. Yes. So, yes, we were rejected by the Belayers. Not rejected. I would say ignored. Ignored would be a better way to put it, yeah. Hatred. And you know what? It's actually, I just want to pause on this because actually it's a funny, interesting story. Sorry, that was me putting a bottle down on the table with bigger force.

When we first joined the lifestyle or started looking into this, we joined obviously dating websites and we started looking through profiles and we decided what was interesting and um who we wanted to talk to and then i would hand craft oh and it was it was like a you know a page based based on each person's profile i looked at your photos and the first one's really cool because i can see you in this and then the second photo is this and i really think that you look nice and you look like a really lovely couple and you seem to be into the same things as us and and no i know And you paid attention to what they'd actually written, as opposed to lol, wanna fuck.

To be honest, every person, every couple of I've been involved with or sent a message to on dating websites, I've done the same thing. Because that's what you do, right? I mean, otherwise. Well, I mean, it's what I thought was going to be working, you know. It's, go on, I've got to point clarity around that. It didn't really work out the way Steve was hoping, I think is the way to put it. Well, but, hey, it took some time, but eventually they came to the pub crawl and voila, we had them in our clutches. Yeah, we haven't let them go since. It's true.

Except we ran off that night to find sure other people. Yeah, to shag them and left us there. That was an omission. I was feeling free to leave. Yeah, you're going to leave that out? What's your clarity about that, sir? First of all, let me say you facilitated a wonderful evening. Yeah, it's great. We've never had that many people on our bed before. Yeah, I considered writing to our bed manufacturer. And congratulating them. Yeah. Dear bed manufacturer, congratulations on building a sturdy product. I can personally guarantee that this holds up to eight people.

I'm actually just interested and how many people hit the head on your roof You certainly did I feel like one time I hit it and I was maybe drifting into some unconsciousness and you just kept on going i put you in the recovery position so it's okay it's not it's not my fault if the recovery position is also really hot my point of clarity was um the message that you guys sent was one of the best that we received. I don't remember it. Honestly, I couldn't tell you what's in it right now because I don't remember the content of it.

But I remember, based on your similar experiences, the amount of drops you get on forums and through dating websites, blah. Most of this just crap, right? Yeah, sure. It's very evident you've taken time to craft a message for us. But the thing is, with those dating websites, we generally don't take them that seriously. And I think right now I've probably got messages in our inbox on, can I say the name? Yeah, Red Hot Pie. Yeah, RHP. That are very considered from genuinely lovely people that I'm sure we've met in a bar and we've owned it very well. But life gets in the way.

And I've probably read it and go, that's an amazing message. These folks sound fantastic. These folks sound fantastic. And then we got on with work and whatever and not thought about it for another month. And that happens a lot. I appreciate that.

But getting off track, so so you guys slept with this woman you're saying you both separately kind of fell in love with her personality yeah and and then what happened she was i think she was in the place where she um you know she was having fluid relationships all the time she wasn't in any sort of relationship with anyone else and it worked for her at that time to be in her semi-relationship with a male and a female because best so would you clarify that as a polyamorous relationship at this point or do you mean not wanting to label but how do you guys feel about it it very much could have been yes but also I'm cognizant of the fact that she's not aware we're doing this so I'm not going to too much detail no no no of course, of course.

No, of course not. I felt it very much could have been. We were both very comfortable with it. And it's not a case of a friend or a relationship in any way or a change that in any way. It just made sense. It's like when you meet somebody and it just makes sense. There was that spark. There was that whole heart-racing thing.

Animal animal magnetism yes and and she was um particularly attentive in the whole so i guess this was before we started using messaging apps like kick and all the rest of it so she would actually text us separately so the length of effort she went to to keep both of us really engaged and flirting with us on separate message trails just made us feel very treasured it was wonderful and we thought wow this is this is lovely so may i ask may i ask given you guys have been together for as long as you had as well prior to that do you think the level of her engagement to you individually actually lifted that as well because i mean it's tough to keep a spark going in a relationship the deeper you get into it, right?

It is tough. It gets harder because you know each other. Work, life. Work, life, all those sorts of things as well. Yes, it probably did. Who doesn't like having attention? Yeah, of course. And it's not something that we were doing before. I would go to work and put my phone in my bag and not pick it up until I was on my way home. What do you mean before? That happened two weeks ago when I was in Sydney. Sometimes I won't be a missus away for weeks from now. Not biotech.

So that whole bearing in mind we've been together since we were so young and that technology wasn't really there, to suddenly have it be used in that way was very, you felt like a teenager again. Yeah.

But with this whole new medium of communication, so you into work and there's a little cool message or a little photo or a little so sexting basically we'd never sexted because you've been in a relationship and for that long you'd never needed to yeah right so we got to the age of 35 and we hadn't sexted before so that in itself is unbelievably titillating so a lot of the polyamory stuff i guess was us just being very excited by what's going on so he just loves the word titillating so um it's like the word panties i was talking to somebody recently like yeah panties is kind of for little girls and i'm like well i'm from australia we don't say that so for me like panties is the ultimate naughty I reject you from my household so what happened then so you had this How did the bridge occur Yeah so that started So I think as Mr.

Belay said It got to the stage where I think we were doing We were so keen to see her all the time Because obviously it was a new shiny thing You know when you're a teenager And you've got your girlfriend, boyfriend for the first time and you're all excited about it. It was like that. It's like, can we see? Can we go for dinner? Can we have you around? Do you want to watch movies? Do you want to do this? So as Mr. Gidea said, we came on a little bit too strong. So it probably lasted all in all maybe five months. And then, of course, that's what's right.

She's pushing back on that a bit and she had other things to do and she was trying to create a bit of a distance and so eventually it just naturally petered out so it dissipated out but by that point we realised this was something certainly that I didn't want to let go because I really enjoy being with women so I couldn't not do that anymore and we thought well hey look we've met this wonderful person and we really enjoyed the experience of being with her and we can both have feelings for her but for each other at the same time wow we must be polyamorous cool so what we'll do now is set up some dating profiles and go off on our own and start trying to date other people to recreate that experience and see how that works out.

So went off onto um okay cupid and you can link your profiles together i think you can do it better now but you could mention each other in each other's profiles and so this is what we're doing ethical yeah this is all purely consensual and everybody to get attracted with we are a married couple this is the link to my partner 100% annual. Yeah, so we're like, this is what we're doing. It's cute. Yeah, but we each described ourselves as poly in those profiles. Yes. But the question is then, were you looking for a man, Mrs. Belay, and were you looking for a female, Mr. Belay?

Or, in fact, actually, were you thinking same sex and you were thinking opposite sex? Look, correct me if I'm wrong, but with the benefit of two years of hindsight, we were probably looking for the person that we just lost. Yeah, pretty much. So I was looking for same-sex. Right. Yeah. And the thing about it that made it crap for me was it's incredibly difficult, which transpires for me anyway, to get very far with same-sex. So I did, I hooked up with some people and I met them and I did the flirty, texty type stuff. Not the same. Mr.

Gilae would meet up with a woman on this and literally be texting me for a second to say he's going to sleep so they'd have enough drinks and they were going back to her place to fuck. So I would get nowhere fast and he was bedding a bunch of women. Wow! I mean, I have to say I'm really surprised by that after meeting you both. No, you're not. But intellectually, though, I mean, if you think about female-to-female connections, I mean, personally, the females that I have wanted to actually interact with during even our couple play sessions is few and far between.

um if i don't find a female to be, and I'm almost actually more harder on females than I am on men. If a female can't hold up her end of the conversation and be articulate and interesting and everything else, I'm actually almost, unfortunately, it's very interesting. So you're saying that's where I went wrong? No, I'm saying that that's my almost sexist perception of the fact that I expect more from women than I do from men, which is absolutely terrible. Oh, no, that's okay. Men do that as well. I think you've reached a point in society where most people expect more from women than men.

About a week ago I realized that and I thought, wow. Because now women have figured, figured, well they've known it for years but now they're allowed to say it out loud that men are actually quite useless. They've rumbled us. They know, they know. So when did you decide to throw away the whole separate dating, polyamory thing? Mr. Bile got involved with with someone who I met, and I thought she was fantastic. And I totally understood why they were together. And she was straight. No, she was bi, but she wasn't interested in me. She wasn't dating women at the time, so she was only dating him.

And she was really looking for a primary partner. And, of course, he couldn't be that because I'm the primary partner.

So it got to the stage where i was at home alone most saturday nights while he was out with her and i was like well it's got to the stage where i'm like the benefit this kind of sucks like this whole thing hasn't worked out the way i want i'm married and yet i'm at home alone and he's with someone else i think the glorious thing here is i mean you you both have you're speaking here from your own perspective as well and your perspective mr belay is well some and her perspective of mr belay is all and it was probably somewhere in between you know but it's just that it's there might have been a run of them yeah but when probably more to her perspective yeah to be fair be fair, because I guess you were the one that's slightly unhappy and I was the one that was happy in the situation, so you're always going to tilt your perspective.

Shifts. Of course. That's what I mean. So, yeah, your perspective was probably on the I've never seen him.

Your perspective is probably a bit more on the we're seeing each other regularly enough, and it's just because if you're in an ugly spot or a happy spot it really changes that perspective yeah sure and i think one of the turning points for me was and i don't know if i've spoken to you this was that um mr v lay doesn't take that much time off from this happens on work very often um and he decided he was going to take a half date specifically to go meet with her and at no point in our relationship has he just said hey babe i'm going to take off from lunch do you want to come home and we'll be here a little bit or go out to the movies or whatever which is what you said you were going to do you said i'm going to take a half day and we're going to go and see a movie and i'm like yeah and then you're going to go home and you're like no no no it's all about the movie and i was it's not mama doesn't raise no fool come on it was just one of those oh she's so exciting and you two that you will have a half-day holiday to be with her but not with me oh and so and so this is what i'm saying so then you made the decision to talk about this.

I don't even remember that. Right. But that happens in our... I don't even remember the half day. I don't remember the movie. But that happens in our childhood too. You'll find people that will have some significant thing happen in their childhood and they'll tell their parents and the parents are like, what? That didn't happen. But it's so significant to you. So you had this situation occur and you had a conversation about how this maybe wasn't in both of your favours. Oh, it was a drunken fight. It was a drunken argument. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. After we'd been out with her for drinks. Right.

I went out with her for drinks. I thought she was amazing. I was a bit nervous that she didn't really want to see me. I totally understood if I liked her and I saw all the logic in it. And she desperately wanted him to come home with her that night. And I said, just come home. Okay. I don't know. I was a bit nervous that she didn't really want to see me. I totally understood if I liked her and I saw all the logic in it and she desperately wanted him to come home with her that night and I said, just come home with me. Okay. I left. I went home with me that night instead. So Mr.

Belay chased you down the road. Well, because that's an average note. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And this is really important to tell. I knew it wasn't, but it was just... That's an average note.

This is actually really interesting and a good point to make because a lot of people say to us um how how do you define your own relationship or what is important to you and at what point do you draw the line and it's whenever you want to draw the line and whenever you find it to be most unacceptable um or diverse or whatever the case may be So the fact that you guys actually made the decision to say, not for us, and let's re-establish. And look, I think it's an important point. There was a third person involved here. Yeah, and she was lovely. I felt so bad. And she was delightful.

There's also context around we both started feeling a bit bad that she was getting the raw deal when we pulled someone into this although she didn't want you as a primary and you'd explain that that would never happen and she was just drifting into that anyway she did but it wasn't fair to cover her dry that quickly she connected with somebody oh i'm okay but it was like hi i'm a polyamorous person right and here i am but were maybe a little bit differential. Well, we went into that very naive. This is what we are. It turns out that's not what we are at all, actually.

But there's no reason for her to realize that unless we actually explain it. You're discussing it. Sure. So, we started feeling bad that we were Hurting other people. Basically hurting other people. And I don't ever want to do that.

That ever want to do that that's not cool so when did you guys have the transition between that to then sleeping or dating other couples and what you actually because because you're so bisexual yeah mrs belay what were your defining uh characteristics then of the other couple were they to be straight were they to be bisexual were when you were first looking versus now i mean what were the differentials looking it wasn't couples we were looking for single women we were still trying to find women okay so we started off yeah or i think we said we'll or at one point we realized oh this isn't gonna work we'll see couples but mrs belay doesn't really want to sleep with a guy.

Okay. And then, of course, we got nowhere because, like, that sucks, right? There were several very nice messages we've gotten from couples. And we were like, yeah, that's cool, but Mrs. Belay doesn't sleep with other guys. Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay. And that kind of children fell apart. Pretty much. So we weren't really getting any word with that.

But during this time, we actually during our ok cupid time we got together with a lady who we still are very good friends with um and so she came into our lives okay we actually ended up fulfilling that you know some other things um prior to when we continue with with rhp and dating couples so that worked and it was actually during we went to a club with that female partner and that's when I decided to sleep for my first time. How was that for you? Hot. Sorry. Sorry, I wasn't Mr. Belay. Yeah, it turns out it's Mr. Belay's thing. No, it was good. He was stunning. It's also Dee's thing.

He was not the sort of person that I would have thought about approaching or anything as a single woman. He was out of my league as far as I was concerned. He was just in silence. He was very polite. Asked me very politely.

I'd been playing with his wife at the club, and then he asked me very politely if we could do stuff, and I politely declined and said no no no i don't do that but i'll do all sorts of other things and he said yeah that's fine that's fine and then our our lady partner and mr b laborers were standing to one side in the room watching this as people do and i thought i'll just do it and that's it so so he was my first so it's just this guy and have you caught up since other than him yeah okay so that was a very and that's not like to do a non-connection thing um well you know what in the moment but i just kind of felt it was a hurry but i knew you needed to sometimes you kind of need that though like you need it sounds horrible but sometimes you need an anonymous individual to help you through something that you perhaps you you're ready to do it but you're not ready to do it with somebody that you're going to commit to actually knowing you know sorry to a degree yeah and you're in a club like that people know that you may hook up to somebody and never see them again yes of course whereas you don't want to kind of cross that hurdle by just looking up with something on a dating site and changing messages and getting to know them and then yeah so talking a one and done scenario through messaging is through a dating site yeah which can be although there are people out there that that's their that's their standard go-to i mean for us you guys know this for us we're much more about forming long-term relationships long-term friendships that that pants on and pants off but there are people i mean one of the couple one of our first couples that we didn't end up playing with, and that was not through this particular reason, but they were a one-and-done couple.

Yeah. And the reason they did that was to make sure there was no emotional tie. For them, it was all about, you know, we, and again, it comes down to your relationship and your discussions, and their discussions were, I don't want you even to slightly form any kind of emotional attachment to this person so in fact it's physical and therefore it's a one-and-done scenario which is which is It's fine, I'm not judging those people, if that's what works for you, cool, but that's basically the relationship I have in my flashlight.

Well no you don't, because you wash it tantalely and put it back in the door. But now I have to pause on this. The cleaning of the flashlight. It's a nightmare. It's a fucking nightmare! The fact that we can get satellites into orbit around Casino...

But somehow we can't clean, we can't we can't manufacturing a self-cleaning fake vagina painful so sometimes i'll come home and his version of the fleshlight will just be sitting on its little pedestal drying in the air i've got it because i've got a tanga it's a tanga split so you get after after washing it out and i'm like oh he's actually so it dries a lot quicker he's actually yeah he's been playing with his tango this morning great good yeah it is actually very cool come on I did I did learn first time around to make sure you put lubricant on on the outside as well the inside.

Well, I've used that on here. You can remove skin if you don't. Oh, yeah, I do that too. It's very interesting, actually. Yeah, it's fun. It works really fast. They do work really fast because what it's like is like a man masturbating with a vagina. So, I mean, let's just establish this.

Masturbation for a man normally just establish this masturbation for a sex normally last no masturbation for a man like you are not trying to Wow sorry so then how did you get from separate profiles to then dating as a couple after that club after after that discussion we i deleted my profile i used suspended years i believe yeah i deleted it oh yeah so we stopped we just went this this isn't right this isn't fair it's not fair enough people we let people at the garden and that but that wasn't our intent even to be honest even the female that i'd been messaging and got on with really well we've been sexting all the rest the rest of it, even though nothing would actually happen between us, when I cut it short.

You know, that wasn't really very fair because she really did quite like me and she's going to take a while for it to go somewhere. You know, again, I felt like, sure, I forgot my path. She was lovely. Yeah, very good. I think she's... Anyway, it's an interesting perspective, though, because you guys clearly very much care about the other people. So everything you've said up until this point is that you didn't want to hurt the other people, you didn't want to lead them on.

So I think there's a misconception about that, that sometimes the other person is just a physical being in the room, not necessarily anything that matters. And, in fact, actually, it's completely the opposite. I mean. In my experience, that's wrong in every facet of life, whether it's work, your conventional relationship, your lifestyle relationship. If you're in a restaurant and you're ordering something, you know, the person that's there is another person who needs to be treated for that. You can't play around with that. You can't just treat that trivially. It's got to be important.

So on that conversation, would you cut this off now and just head on into the bedroom? I mean, because I can hear the sploosh from here. It's important to respect other people. It's the most important thing. I don't know, fuck, what is it, the country code or whatever it is. You know, take nothing but photographs, leave nothing but footprints. Don't leave people in a worse way than you find them. I think Smokey B. Bear came up with that. Oh, yeah? Yeah. No, it is something like that. Smokey B. Bear is a fountain of wisdom on that. Oh, I know. He wears dungarees.

You know, Trump cut all the funding from the fucking board. Whoa,es I mean well this is not a political podcast back it out back it out I'm gonna I'm gonna posit I've this positivity this was it was it ties all the time was it eyes yeah and positivity positive this positivity, this... Positize. Yeah. Add positivity. Positode. Positode. Wait, what were you doing? I want to know... English. When you first started even discussing this to now, your perception has changed, obviously. But what I want to know is what positive subset have you now found since doing this?

I think you need to be a little narrower I'll see you next time. But what I want to know is what positive subset have you now found since doing this? I think you need to be a little narrower with that. Positive in terms of... Okay, then I should show. What is a random positivity that has actually come from you having this conversation, you opening up your relationship, joining the lifestyle, dating, polyamory, the whole bit?

What is something you was unexpected but is a positivity that has occurred in your relationship i think we discuss everything a lot more now than we did so we're lucky in that we're very close and again having grown up together we worked out a way of living together that works for us and you know but it's we are from scotland so um yeah i think i think we talk more openly about other things because we have to talk about stuff like this about well i don't like it when you date other women without me and this is what i think boundary is it now also comes down to hey i get i get quite stressed when i'm the only person that's after the finances and i think we need to talk about that and you know that's actually been worrying me since we were kids and i've never really spoken about it so hey look so i find that we talk more about all facets of life um probably more than we did before and and talking a little bit more about maybe problems we have yeah the ability home from work the ability to talk about a little stuff right a little bit so we talked more about that um and the sex was it was enlightening after the first time with me and a woman they just i mean we had a very nice sex life before i didn't complain at all but the whole buzz thing just suddenly came back and it's just being like wow let's try this let's try that so before i mr blay answer the same question um in terms of your sex life now as a couple yeah do you now introduce more sex toys, more role play, more whatever into the bedroom?

Like, is that naturally happened? Just because there was a thing that changed, I think, when we just went. I mean, we'd done that before as students. We'd certainly have a lot of toys and various other things that we played with, but they just kind of, oh, it's annoying and it's effort and whatever else. Well, you've got to keep fucking charging them now. I mean, it's a nightmare, right? Or cleaning them. We need like a thousand USB ports built into each house. No, but those weren't the toys. I've lost the potato.

So you have to have a whole stack of batteries there, and then they kind of go off the toys, or they burst, or whatever. So we haven't even evolved our toys with our ability. But now, like from... Because everything's cool, Right. So now you've had like one of the positivities of that is not just communication, but it's in your own sexual experiences together in your bedroom. Can I say there's actually something that sums this up? It's actually a youthful outlook to both toys.

You know, I mean, can I say one of the things I've noticed – Yeah, one of the things I've noticed, and I don't mean youth as in terms of age at all, not the number beside your name. It's your actual, just your outlook on life. It becomes, for me certainly, the ability to see a new toy and not to say, oh, it's got a USB port and it's all too hard or whatever. It's just something new. When we went to that escape room, I mean, Dean normally would be like, so fucking hard. And instead, because we were with you guys, he was like, you know what, let's give it a go, walked out, loved it.

So it's also – Except for that one annoying bit where we spent forever trying to – Stupid annoying. Well, we kind of did like intellectually just delve into delve into... Oh, I think it, yeah. But you're, Mr. Belay, what's a subset of your... A continuation from that, we recently just bought two new bedside cabinets specifically to house our sex dogs. Because, you know, the old watches were up to it. They were crammed in, bent around, all funny angles. And they were collapsing. I mean, they were collapsing under the weight. And every now and again, one would rumble out of the room.

I've actually traveled on an international flight, and eight hours later, I've been like, my luggage is vibrating. Oh, my batteries are now going to be dead. This is a bad thing. I arrived in the office one day after a business trip with my seatbelt by wedding. And I looked at a colleague and I'm like, it's my shaver. Or toothbrush. Clearly. Toothbrush. Go with toothbrush. It was. It was genuinely my shaver. Mr. Belay. What was the question? We're not weird. What? We're not weird. Oh, knowing that we're not weird. Oh, just full stop.

We're not weird what we're not doing oh just full stop we're not weird full stop it's not unusual what we do is not unusual um it's not strange it's not a symptom of anything a broken marriage it's not a symptom of being mentally damaged um we're not weird lots of people like this and enjoy this and as we alluded to earlier maybe over that mrs delay being um on mckinsey scale where she is and myself being on mckinsey scale where i am i mean society's never fucking answered that question right if you if you are both bisexual people or heteroflexible or whatever the fuck you want to call it i don't really care, and you get married, that doesn't stop.

So that's, I really want to talk about that, so we have... We'll come back to that. He's still answering the question. Okay. No, no, but it's, we can continue, the flow comes in, but that doesn't stop. That's not something like, right, we're married now, so I'm going to put that part of my life in the box, put it in the closet and look at it again, because to my mind, that way, somewhere down the line, there's going to be emotional trauma and arguments and difficulties and divorce and unhappiness and all that shit, right?

And that came into the conversation that we had after the polyamory thing didn't work out. We spoke about it, and he asked me, well, what if we just put everything back in the box?

he was like i don't think we can because you've obviously enjoyed this experience with women more than you thought you were going to and it was more than it's more than just a fantasy so we can't put it back in the box so we have to look at another solution it's not this and that's not what's right but we can't ask you should not do that because if we did you would end up going off in a clandestine way and doing it separately and which isn't the whole point is there a guy you open the most I don't know from a way it comes I don't know I isn't the whole point because we're very open and honest with each other I guess it falls down for the conversation right so if we did put this back in the thoughts and Mrs.

Villay was unhappy because she couldn't acknowledge this there's only one way that's going to go right and so at what point do you then kind of negotiate and make a decision that it is or it isn't part of but it just it it kind of is by default well it becomes an awareness if you're if you're in a really communicative open relationship you want to talk and you love your partner yes if you want to continue being in that relationship right right correct because a large part of it is even if i if... No.

You know, or if you did meet another woman and fall in love completely and it ended up ending our relationship, that's okay. Don't get me wrong, it's shit for me, it sucks ass. But you care so much about Mrs. Belay that... It's inevitable, right? You're fighting against inertia at that point, which you can't do. If that's the way it goes, and that's the way it goes, then I can either choose at that point to be an angry, grumpy man, or I can choose at that point to kind of support you and the choice that you've made in life to continue going.

But equally, the fact that we're exploring same-sex relationships in the way that we are doesn't mean that I'm suddenly predisposed towards falling for the person that I'm with. There no there's no reason that any normal married couple even who doesn't play doesn't worry about well what if one day you meet someone at work and you fall for them completely relevant just because you've opened your relationship doesn't mean that that relationship it's entirely irrelevant it's relevant because that person's new they're exciting they're they're unknown. Of course, but regardless of...

Could be a potential match. I also have the security monitor being pretty amazing, so... Yeah, well, you are Mr. Presto? Let's go with that. Just a Mr. Awesome. Mr. Amazeballs. So, is there anything else positive that you wanted to mention because C wanted to pick up on some of them? Do you remember what you're going to pick up on? No. See, this is why we need a whiteboard. Just saying. Just bring it out there. So, another question. Opposite end of the spectrum. Anything negative? No. Just every so often going, oh, you've had chlamydia. Ugh, okay.

Just getting a phone call from it, it's not bad, right? but it's just one of those tedious things that would never have happened when it was just the two of you you get phone call from one of the other couples saying hey which is totally right just to let you know we've had a diagnosis you're gonna have to get yourself tested it's just one of those things so there's a little bit there's a tiny little bit of extra upkeep that obviously for a million years you don't have to deal with.

So there's a little bit more – well, actually, I mean, provided, of course, that you're in a marriage that's a faithful marriage. So, yeah, there is always that – there's always a little bit extra in terms of understanding what's going on with your partners. But I think this lifestyle is – it's much safer to be in this lifestyle than it is to be a single out there in the world even in my experience i mean as a single i was much less sexually conscious in terms of um diseases and i was just i mean seriously it was it's it's such a big change now to see people that are so concerned.

Well, I think because you've got couples involved and everyone's very good and the women are like, oh, we won't touch this and let's be careful and wash our hands and everyone's very careful, so it's nice. But, yeah, every so often there is that odd call from a couple saying, you've got to watch it. Yeah, okay. We haven't had that call yet. We've never had that call. We've had it from another single safe you're always safer but yeah it's but but it's one of those things it's risk versus reward right this is a very rewarding habit lifestyle whatever you want to call it that we we have, I think.

Habit. I would call it a habit. A habit. It is a habit. It's habitual. Yes. But there shouldn't be a stigma associated with that. So our last female that called us with that phone call was mortified.

She was like, oh, please don't hate me and blah and we were both like yeah it's fine it's totally normal thanks for letting us know you did exactly the right thing don't worry about it it's cool we met it's all fine yeah it's happens all the time it's great i i'm trying to remember it comes and goes but what i was wanting to talk about earlier was the stigma of um stigma of um if you were talking about being unfaithful being married being unfaithful being bisexual being lesbian being gay versus being in the swinging lifestyle open non-monogamous relationship where do you think we sit now in terms of society and understanding about the people this is purely an outward view no this is not a personal view this is an outward view what do you think society thinks if you were talking to your colleagues and you said i'm in an ethically non-monogamous relationship where do you think they would find you in comparison to somebody who said i'm gay i'm lesbian or i'm cheating on my wife or i'm cheating on my wife or whatever the case may be probably somewhere i would have thought that somewhere down the cheating scale i think it's that whole ah so you swing so it's keys in the car bowl and everybody knows about it but you're going off and you're doing your separate thing separately you're swapping you're doing a pure stuff i think there's a generational divide i think older people in your work environment would think exactly that.

That was the question in work. And younger people in your work environment would be like, eh? So if you had to rate it one through five, with one being the worst thing you could possibly be at work versus five being the least concerning. So I would say that coming out as being, certainly in Australia, being homosexual, coming out as homosexual would be like, well, yeah, it'd be like... It depends on the industry, but yes, generally a four. Generally, there'd be a lot of people who just go, oh, yeah, sweet, well, why are you telling me this?

You know, unless we're're planning on having sex i don't need to know exactly but i i still the reason i think well the reason i would have asked that question so i can't get inside your head as much as i'd love to because it'd be like some sort of crazy crazy is because i think if you in certainly in the industries i've ever been in if i was cheating on my spouse my life good for you like well done if i said i'm in an open relationship they would say instantly so your woman your wife is fucking somebody else that would be the first thing to mine No, mine would be a worse reaction to the person's thing.

Oh, really? Cheating would not be accepted fairly well. In your industry, you mean? In an open relationship, I think the worst reaction would be no one understanding. We'd just be like, why? I don't get that. I'm confused by that.

As I said said a lot of the younger people generally like people would be like yeah cool as much work for you i don't care i don't know i think there's a lot in my industry is kind of yeah my industry is kind of different i guess well i mean yeah there's a general advice to that question as well yeah and also in your industry people wear blue hair to work and it's fine yeah so exactly yeah so i think it certainly is industry specific but i i think is that why you're asking that question yeah because i i think your industry is it's age and industry specific so for his d is absolutely right for his industry if he said, I slept with this 20-year-old on the weekend, them knowing that we were married, they'd be like, yeah, high five.

Good for you, dude. Whereas if he said to them, oh, you know, we went out and we had a threesome and there was another guy. Oh, my God. You know what? He was pleasuring C like you've never seen before. They'd be like, no, that that's not manly it's not accepted i i i get that and i i understand that would be the reaction but i i think it's dying i think it's a generational thing to get like the original kind of point in terms of how we see it in terms of the you know gay struggle and so on for people coming you out from being homosexual. Honestly, I don't see it as the same thing.

Oh, no, sorry. I've grouped here and I shouldn't have.

I know that's not what you necessarily meant, but I think people who fought for the kind of equal rights in order to be who they are as homosexual but maybe not i mean that's that that's a hard spot oh yeah generations of toil just to simply put up your hands and say here i am this is who i am and you can't change that whereas ultimately if you guys and us could never sleep with other people again it might kind of suck it might piss us off a little bit but it's okay it's not fundamentally the core yes absolutely yeah this probably is something that i choose to do i guess yeah i don't know is that right yeah i think it's right i think it probably is something we choose to do because ultimately i still let you and you still let me and that's and whilst you say amazing and this is everything else is fun.

And I can always put a wig and some fake boobs on. Yeah, yeah, and I love that. What do you mean fake boobs? We just need to add another 20 kilos and he'll have boobs of his own. Oh, well recovered, my friend, well recovered, bravo. I don't know, where were you, where was your mind headed?

But following on from, just following on from what he was saying, at the same the same time though i do feel a little bit guilty because i get to indulge in what's not a relatively non-standard sexual behavior thing but because i have the legitimacy of a wedding ring on my finger and a husband it's i don't have to talk about it I wouldn't talk about it necessarily at work anyway because there's things that leave a private regardless yeah of course get into that with anyone regardless of their sexual background but equally I get to do that without anybody even suspecting or anybody judging or anybody thinking it so we have a screen if you like yes and we've not come out do you get to wear a mask yes and it's not fair because there are other people who are struggling to say that they're they're bisexual, or they're this or they're that, and here I am, and because I happen to be bisexual, and here I am, because i happen to be bi but i'm married it's okay yeah i'm all right i get away with it and in some respects and i have i think we have had a bit of a moral dilemma about going back and forth about whether we should come out as such and let more people know about it as a real thing because it's not fair.

Well, I think... Because I do definitely identify. I think for us, certainly, it's more about... I mean, I wouldn't sit down with my parents and explain to them my sexual orientation or my sexual endeavours or what we choose... If you do that, can I not be here? What we choose to do. You know, my parents or my family or even my work colleagues or friends.

If you do, you alsobar this whole conversation let's talk about the world's the word slut oh we're coming back to that yeah sure yeah recently i i put up a poll on Twitter about the use of the word sludge and also the activity or frequency in which your sexual partners maybe participate in the lifestyle. So whether or not you would judge somebody by their activity, if they were sleeping with somebody three different times in a week, whoever they choose, like maybe it's not. I think you're not doing a great job of explaining that. Thank you.

their activity if they were so somebody was having sleeping with somebody three different times in a week um whoever they choose like maybe it's not i think you're not doing a great job of explaining can i can i just can i can i sub in yep sub subbing okay i mean okay so what's he meant cement right oh my god it's just rock hard um what's what C meant by that was how many times how many if you're in a open relationship and you're with other couples regularly and you have uh 20 couples in a week that you've been involved with would that if you're then another couple coming into that would that adversely affect your impression of them you know would you be concerned that you know what we're trying to I suppose what we're trying to look at here yeah exactly so what I'm I suppose see was trying to ask is let's put this in a single context right so you're a single single girl and you meet a single and you meet a single guy and the single guy has is sleeping with a lot of women at the time when you meet does i mean does that adversely affect your opinion of him and now let's transpose that to a to a couple does that adversely affect your opinion of them in terms of their their your interest in them does it change anything i don't know it it might but then you'll have got to know them anyway and we are much like you um i mean the club instance that i spoke about before was very much well i don't do that very often just randomly speak with a guy so we meet people and we decide to be like them and then we're friends, and then, you know, that's the role we've got.

And then other things happen. Yeah. So if I've met someone, and I know them, and I like them, and I understand the history to what it is they're doing, and the other people would, I don't know. It doesn't matter. Probably not, no, but first glance would probably be, huh, you guys seem to have an awful lot of, let's say, friends on our HP who've all rated you five stars for your shagging ability. Five? I'd be like, huh. Did I? I've never been rated five stars. I didn't even know there was a five-star rating. So now I'm thinking that I'm like. Unfortunately, I get lumped in with you, honey.

And then, you know, I'm a five-star, but you're a four, so. Like, it's. Whoa. My approach would be any sensible risk assessment, right? And I would never judge somebody morally for that. If people want to fuck 300 people a day, go for it.

It was actually the most common response from Twitter was actually I had on there, no, we would basically consider them sluts or it doesn't really matter or it depends on the connection and the bulk of people where it depends on the connection I mean if you were going to fuck 40 guys in a day what's the odds that one of them is lying but his history or the protection that's been there previously probably fairly high whereas if you have a good relationship with 40 guys over a year and you feel that you know them and you've you know delved into that blah blah maybe that's a bit different i i don't i don't know yeah as long as they're maintaining that connection with their other people and it's not just the sort of burn through kind of thing because those people are less likely to then contact you and give you the chlamydia phone call.

And do you think then that the word slut has a negative connotation? Or now, do you think it actually has a positive spin? No, I still think it's negative. It's still negative. People are very much trying to take it back, right? People are trying to reclaim it as a positive badge.

I mean, you've seen marches for feminism all over the world where women are carrying signs saying you know uh unashamed slut and that kind of thing awesome quite right as you should go for it um but it probably still does just in society have a negative connotation to it it shouldn't necessarily i mean when i said earlier um i don't define myself as bisexual or heteroflex i'm just kind of slutty, I meant it in a positive way. If I like you and I think you're a nice person, I don't really care that much whether you're male or female because I like you and you're a nice person.

So you're using slutty from just an open-ended I enjoy sex with rec type of person perspective and I don't have any hang-ups in the bag. And you guys want to throw down, cool. Throw down. Sorry, I'm going to regret this. Throw down, no. I really don't think that's the only thing you're going to regret. Fuck off. It came bubbling up in a stream of consciousness. You could totally throw down. Yeah, you could also go fuck yourself. Well, maybe one day.

So what's your conclusion um i i i would have to agree with mr belay i think we're trying to take it back as a community um it's not necessarily as um negative as it was i mean if you look back when you're in high school if a woman said said to another woman, she's a dirty slut, that would be cutting, cutting and horrendous. And yet now it's like actually, no, she's not a slut. She's not a loose woman. She just knows what she wants and she's willing to go after it.

And, in fact, should we place that with a negative title or should we embrace the fact that she knows what she wants and she wants to go after it? Well, technically she's actually empowered, right? Exactly correct. Which is what scared everybody in the first place. Exactly correct. Because they didn't like the idea of women going out there and doing what they wanted. I still don't. Yeah. It's always applied to women more than anything. Exactly. Correct. So if you have to search for a male or a woman, it's probably stud. Really? Yes, no, absolutely.

I would say stud is like a positive kind of like. No. Yeah, positive is a stud. It is a positive. But that is the equivalent. But that is the equivalent. Yes. Slut for a woman is stud for a man. Because what does a stud do? They go, they're open, they know what they want, they're very attractive. They're very confident. Yeah. Sex or club. Oh, man, I got such a stuff. They're repercussions. So it's basically the same thing. It's just this. Or to use a James Bondanism, you have high charisma. You're very charismatic is also another word, I think.

So in closing, though, is there anything that you guys want to specifically share, talk about, bring to the attention of other people who are either considering or are in open non-monogamous relationship or anything else? No. Mr. Blay, thank you. As always you are articulate and to the point, sir.

Terrible fucking answer mrs blake i think that um particularly women um shouldn't be pressured into doing something they're not ready for so i didn't want to do the men thing and i didn't care that he came back and said we're not really getting anywhere with couples because you don't want to sleep with guys um this is very harsh you are a bit of a twat it's not harsh but that change what you're doing but I didn't want to feel pressured into that so I get it and I'm still very reticent about it and I'm still very very cheesy about the men that I sleep with. And so you should be.

didn't want to feel pressured into that, so I did it when I got ready. No, I get it. And I'm still very reticent about it, and I'm still very very choosy about the men that I sleep with. And so you should be. I mean, this is a pretty intimate thing. I mean, some people kind of... Me too. Me too. Well, yeah, absolutely. I'm actually just wiping a tear over you. Some people kind of blow it off and say, like, oh, it's just, I mean, just sex. In a manner, yes it is, but in another manner it's not. I mean, it's quite intimate. There's no such thing to really sound right.

It's kind of leaving them for I'm sorry. I'm not. I mean, it's quite intimate. There's no such thing to understand, right? It's going to leave an imprint on you in some way. It doesn't need to be a negative imprint, but it's going to affect you in some way. This lifestyle, the beginning that we live, you absorb it like a sponge, right? Everything, because you're dealing with emotions constantly, your own and other people's, and that's super important. So I guess one thing to take away from it is don't damage anyone. Including yourself. Including yourself. Actually, primarily yourself.

But don't let it get to the point where, you know, whatever of fun linked to you having an existential crisis 10 minutes he means like 2.3 seconds oh bam oh oh if that wasn't so accurate I'd be a no did C just lay the smack down did that just happen just happen? Don't let it damage you. It's not that important. It's meant to be fun. It's meant to be good. Good point. To a degree, I guess we're meant to discover something that other people haven't yet. It's like a little secret.

Running through the lifestyle, there's a little bit of a current of that is that we're kind of enlightened and we've figured something out that other people haven't yet, and we probably haven't. It's just, this is what we like, that's what they like, and that's cool. But don't let this thing that you like damage everything, because that's just not worth it. I really think that women in particular feel, if they have entered this kind of lifestyle, that they always have to be on all the time. Because you do this, it means you do it all the time. All the time, regardless.

Meet with a couple, you're going to go for it, you're going to do it, you're going to whatever. That's not true. That's not how you work in real life with your own Thank you.

have to be on all the time because you do this it means you do it all the time all the time regardless meet the couple you're going to go for it you're going to do it you're going to whatever that's not true that's not how you work in real life with your own relationships so don't my main message is don't be afraid to go do you know what guys i'm not in that headspace we're going to chill out we're going to watch a movie we're going to do something else are you cool on that and the only people that i hang out with that way are the people that are cool to be the people who say yes to that to that question if you feel that you're with a couple that are going to judge you because you said i don't want to have sex it's been a really hard day at work i'm just i want to cuddle i want to watch a movie i want to have fun i want to play cards or whatever that should be on the table don't ever as a woman feel guilty because you've arranged a date with a couple and you want you feel you've got to go through that that's something i've heard from other women you said I feel obliged because I've come down or visited these people and there's something in there and there's expectations that aren't and you don't go into it with that.

If you're not happy watching Indiana Jones and eating a cheese plate and drink the whole line with somebody and that's it. Holy shit can we really watch Indiana Jones? We just gave it to you. But we're on the last to be saved because we've already watched those. If you're not happy doing that Then the other stuff is kind of It's points, it's detail It doesn't matter I mean just Hooking up to somebody and fucking them isn't hard Certainly you're not You can do that any day You can just go out there or you can hook up to somebody and you can have sex.

That's not, everybody wants it, everybody loves it. It's great, brilliant. That's not that difficult, but actually getting a bit of a connection with something that you like and you want to foster and you want to see people again. I'm actually feeling really sad over here because I find it horribly hard to do what you've just described, to just go out and hook up, you know. Yeah, but there's reasons.

So what do you want to say um in terms of i mean i'm on i'm on a hot rock well no just the fact that we know that mr and mrs belay have a good connection um in well i mean where they live and and we don't like what's your well i mean the only problem i have is that they live in fucking sydney instead of singapore yeah you know that's what I want to come out and say. It's about time you fuckers moved here because you like it here. We've been here like seven times in the last two years. Come on. Yes. We're trying pretty hard. Yeah, I know. And you are trying pretty hard.

So well done on that, yeah. But, no, I mean, I suppose for me these are the people, and I say this to you guys openly, and I think I've shared this before, you are the type of people, you people are the reason that we are in the lifestyle. Stay in the lifestyle. And stay in the lifestyles because we meet people who are interesting, intellectually exciting, sexually fun, you know. Drunkers. Drunkers. Cheese freaks. Drunkers. Nutbags.

You bags you know like and not only that but we've even in our relationship and the couple to couple we've been through ebbs and flows in terms of communication but also in terms of you know we've been through some things you guys have been through some sink some things but we've come out the other end of that yeah actually still having respect for. Well, I mean, certainly my way to you. I'm not sure. Mr. Belay is looking at me with a strange set of eyes on, so there may not be respect there. That's the best you got? That's worse. Oh, my God. We need to put a photo of that up with the podcast.

But just that, I suppose, the friendship first scenario where we expect things to go wrong as well as go right, and then we deal with the wrong and we actually enjoy each other's company, whether it's wrong or right. This, to me, is actually what originally, well, not originally drew me to the lifestyle. That later made you figure out that actually that's the positive. This is the biggest positive I've drawn from the lifestyle. Which is actually kind of what I was trying to draw on earlier. Yeah. For me, it's the offshoot of the lifestyle.

It's not necessarily the sex and it's not necessarily the going to events or having fun or whatever because you could do that. You could do that and just go home. It's actually the fact that you can still have deep, meaningful conversations and still have a connection and have fun. And deep relationships as well. That's what lasts. Yes. That's what matters. Yes. And, I mean, in this life, I guess, if you get a little bit older, that's what I should say.

what matters yes right and i mean in this life i guess if we get a little bit older that's what i should say you're so old you're so old you just ran old fart then you went straight to old fart that's what counts a little bit you're like basically one foot in the crept like it's not but it's true you get lazier as you get older and you know that whole idea of chasing new people becomes a bit exhausting you just want nice people but not to totally waylay the people who enjoy just going out and meeting new people for the first time that's great that's different to us just make sure that people know that what you're there for is to talk your brains out and that's that.

Yes, and keep their numbers in case you do need to contact them. If you're going to make one recommendation to a newbie, a couple thinking about joining the lifestyle, you guys have been through bisexual, polyamory. We're talking labels now. You've labelled yourself bisexual, polyamorous. You have been through so many different iterations of the lifestyle, as you will. What would you say to people like a newbie joining? Newbie couple. Yeah, like a newbie couple. One tidbit of advice. If they come and say to you, like, what should we do? What should we look out for?

What method should we follow? I mean, what's your advice? Be honest to yourself. Be true to yourself. what you're looking for. I like that, because that was my answer as well. My answer was, you already know what you want, most likely, so communicate it well. Yeah, because then don't go down a different path, because if you think the part I want to do or you want to try something else it's not what you're looking for, don't pretend it is. Good advice. Do or do not, there is no try. Well, there's... Sorry, I was... As with everything, there's great issues in that, right?

I mean, if your heat fell, you needed your soul as to fuck a pack of dogs, I mean, that's probably going to be a pretty difficult conversation with your other half. But if all we want to do is meet some other people and make some friends and maybe sleep with them. I mean, that's not that hard, right? How much do you crush your partner? Yeah, that's the big question there. And if they say no over my dead body, well, you know, that's a different conversation. I mean, maybe you don't have their dead body. You just kill them and get on with it. And fuck your pack of dogs.

So just before we close out, in terms of how you capture your swing couples in Sydney, who tell us how that happens? How we capture them? Yeah. I have various traps set up in Sydney. Check them once a week. What do you use for bake? We bake them with... Brie. Really, really stinky, oozy brie.

That way we know that if they've gone for it, we're going to like them's a brie and a heavy oak charbonnet sometimes it's um some you know rillette and it's almost there it depends it really does depend from from time to time some christmas pudding and a little bit so just because i really want to eat and drink all that stuff, where are these traps to achieve the place around Sydney? Oh, we couldn't possibly tell you. No? Okay. So we'll take it to the grave. Okay. We'll have to find them all.

We find people occasionally through Red Hot Pie, but I've been on that maybe two or three times in the last six months, I reckon. That's not disparaging the site at all. It's a great site. It's because you already have a stable... We have a group of fans. We see quite a lot. They're wonderful people. Some of them are in Singapore, which is a little bit... We're fucking sobbing over here. We're working on a replacement for them. We're working on a replacement for them. Yeah. That was fucking harsh.

I'm quite saddened by that actually that makes me very sad let's just put it this way next time we're in Singapore we can say no I don't want to help. Steve was devastated. I swear, I didn't have to go. You hacked me to the core, I can't do it anymore. No, stop laughing. I don't want your second-rate hugs. Any other questions? I think we should definitely finish up on you being so desperately cut. Cut myself. By that simple, simple comment. These Dorito cheeses are no... Also, I'd like to just clarify for the podcast community that I do not love Trump. And that is Swinging Down Under, folks.

This is C. This is D. And this is Swinging Down Under. Thank you so much. I fucking love you, man. That was awesome. You're not really going to replace this really, are you? It makes me really sad. Don't do that. No.