Do you own your orgasm? Monogamish Marriage helps us dissect how to own your orgasm, close the orgasm gap and be more vocal with your sexual desires and interests.
Guest Monogamish Marriage
We're joined by Kate & Liam of the Monogamish Marriage Blog, a couple based in Toronto with a swinging lifestyle blog. They share their journey and talk candidly about the orgasm gap that exists in their lifestyle journey and why it might not be such a bad thing. Kate is officially owning her orgasm and we share her personal journey on the episode.
They share their tips on how they've grown in the past few years and how they navigate potentially awkward conversations.
Guest Jeff Abraham
We're then joined by the CEO of sexual wellness company Promescent and we get clinical about the use of Promescent delay sprays in the swinging lifestyle and how they can help you with sexual intimacy.
Grab an order of Promescent delay spray or any of their other products and score 15% off, head to our website for links https://www.swingingdownunder.com/swingerswebsites/
Episode Resources
Monogamish Marriage Blog - https://themonogamishmarriage.com/
Monogamish Marriage Twitter - https://twitter.com/Monogamish1
Monogamish Marriage Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/themonogamishmarriage
She Comes First (Dr Ian Kerner) - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0060538260/
Come as you are (Dr Emily Nagoski) - https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1982165316?tag=simonsayscom
Tell me what you want (Dr Justin Lehmiller) - https://www.lehmiller.com/tell-me-what-you-want
Wanna help us out and support the show? We would love you to consider supporting us on Patreon from only $1 a month & you’ll get access to exclusive content and live podcasts. Join us www.patreon.com/swingingdownunder
Swinging Lifestyle Events
Podcast-A-Palooza Join us in Dallas November 5-8th 2021 https://podcast-a-palooza.com/
Head to Naughty In Nawlins 2022 https://www.swingingdownunder.com/naughty/
Visit our website for videos, blogs, podcasts, newsletters and swinging lifestyle resources. https://www.swingingdownunder.com/
Love, Peace and Respect
C&D
We are a swinging lifestyle podcast, we talk about sex, being a hotwife and non-monogamy, please ensure you are of legal age to be listening to our sexy stories.
If you’re interested in learning more about the swinging and hotwifing lifestyle join us on our sexy swinger hotwife podcast. We share information our personal experiences and journey, swinger event, swinging dating sites, reviews for swingers resorts and more.
Transcript
you're listening to the wanderlust swingers podcast with aussie hosts kate and daryl if you're curious about exploring your sexuality or the swinging hot wiping and non-monogamous lifestyle you've definitely come to the right podcast or maybe you just love travel adventures either way we share our personal sometimes juicy sexy stories as well as swingers club and event reviews interviews with other other sassy people, and of course, our global swinging adventures. We try to bring you a look into the diverse lifestyle that the swinging and non-monogamous community has. We hope you enjoy.
Now let's get into the episode. Hi there guys, and welcome back. I'm on the line right now with Kate and Liam based out of Toronto in Canada. Welcome to the podcast again. It's been a while since we spoke to you guys. How are you both? Hey, we're good and we're so happy to be back and to see you again. Now, if you don't know who Kate and Liam are, they are from the Monogamous Marriage blog.
We mention them often on our twitter feed and definitely even in our podcast episodes we are avid readers of their blog and have been for some time now I think back in I want to say 2016 2017 we've been reading your blog for but for anyone out there perhaps who hasn't heard of Kate and Liam and the monogamish marriage blog, Sexy Canadians Together Since 2011 stepped into ethical non-monogamy after previous marriages. Perhaps can you guys give us maybe our listeners a little snippet, something that people may not know about you guys? Well, I don't know what counts as interesting.
So let me try this for starters. We got together, as you mentioned, in 2011. Since 2012, I have kept track of every sexual interaction we've had on a giant spreadsheet. So if someone wanted to know how many orgasms Kate had in October of 2014, and I'm not judging as to why they would want to know that, but if they did, I've actually got the data. So I'm that kind of guy. Another interesting tidbit is back in 2011, when we met, it was actually in church. And we've become avid swingers. And so that's kind of a strange place to begin that kind of relationship. And that's where it started.
And avidly a too so that's another part of our journey and so many people do start that way we we actually get a lot of queries from religious people that are joining the lifestyle and daryl and i are not particularly religious so oftentimes we just kind of point them in the direction of other people's blogs or other people's podcasts and say hey go and read this because it's not generally something we feel we can we can talk So that's good intel.
If anyone out there is listening and you are religious and you wanting to get into the lifestyle and you just don't know how those two things align, obviously the monogamous marriage is definitely something you guys should pick up. Now, today we are going to talk about a few topics. Namely, I want to talk about owning your orgasm and the orgasm gap as well.
So how do you discuss the orgasm gap with either your primary partner or your swinging non-monogamous partners and kind of delving into maybe some tips or information about how to have these conversations or maybe even how to feel okay with it yourself. So first and foremost, we're going to start with the orgasm gap. I did put together some guidelines, some questions, and I think that definitely Liam is going to have something interesting to add to the topic here, but let's go ahead and get started. A lot of people talk about the orgasm gap.
We know that many women in particular don't necessarily orgasm from penetrative sex. We know that a lot of women may not orgasm during their lifestyle journey and sometimes that leads us both men and women to feel like we're not necessarily okay or right or you know you hear on especially podcasts you hear about these amazing orgasms everybody is having and then maybe you feel like you're not doing it right so we're going to delve into the orgasm gap Kate and Liam it exists we know it We know it exists. It exists in monogamous relationships, non-monogamous relationships.
Hell, I have even masturbated one time and have actually just decided that I'm going to stop masturbating because I have an orgasm. So it exists even in solo play. Right. You know, that's reality. But my question to you guys is, if it happens in solo play and in monogamous relationships, what chance or hope do we have for the swinging lifestyle and non-monogamous relationships? What are your thoughts on that? Well, to me, it's like the dream of the simultaneous release, to quote the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It's something that we all aspire to, usually when we're less experienced.
And the more experience we get, the more we realize, oh, if that ever happens, that's kind of like a hole in one in golf, something to be celebrated, call the press and make a big deal out of. So I think for us, we found it healthy to completely disengage from the conversation about any kind of equality. So we're looking at the richness of our experiences in the lifestyle. And orgasms are definitely a part of that, but not in any, if I can say competitive sense. Yeah. And I think talking about orgasms is, you know, it's a lot of different things, right?
So when we are together, I almost never fail to have two or three, sometimes four or five orgas and I'm hard to convince I am not an easy orgasmer right but together we figured out how to make it work in the lifestyle it's a different ball game entirely you know I I can do lots of directing and tell people okay this is my very special way of having an orgas. Let's work together to make it happen. And if it works, that's awesome. But I've kind of let go of the expectation that that's got to be the end goal. I just look for, you know, whatever pleasure there is to be had.
And sometimes just edging close to orgasms for an hour or two is way better than actually getting over the top. So I think we've learned to temper our expectations in lifestyle situations because it's just not the same. You're not looking for the same thing. You're not going to get the same thing. That's kind of the point, really. And we have lots of great orgasms together. So we just get different stuff out of our time with other people.
Those are really great points but something that you touched on there that rang home a little bit for me was you said directing you like to direct and I want to touch on this actually in the second segment and that's talking more about communication but when you said the term directing to me immediately I thought of one of my key things that I'll do sometimes is actually direct to the room if i don't feel like it's going to be you know the play session i don't necessarily want it to be focused on me and i don't necessarily want it to be focused on the end game of this orgasm sometimes i will go into director mode and what i mean by that is i will direct the room hey you do this you do that hey this will be sexy i want to see that have you ever you know kate thinking about this, have you ever taken, you do that.
Hey, this would be sexy. I want to see that. Have you ever, you know, Kate, thinking about this, have you ever taken that direction in that role as well, just because you go, okay, I'm having a great time. It's probably not necessarily going to happen for me. So instead of focusing on that, I might direct other people. Have you done that before? I'm just curious. I don't know that I really direct, but I do like to step back and just watch once in a while.
So quite often in a group play session, I'll just disentangle myself and step back and just kind of watch what's going on, maybe move from one play partner to another. I like to think of myself as like a little butterfly in an orgy situation where I can just kind of flit around and find whatever is fun and whatever seems to turn me on in the moment so I don't think I direct other people but I I feel totally free to direct myself and kind of create my own fun and my own show yeah and I have another way of disengaging which is I make a lot of videos of our sexual time together with other people.
It's totally consensual. I'm not that hidden camera guy. It's it's another way of I mean, it's directing in a way, except I very purposely do not want to direct the action because the whole value of anything I film is these are spontaneous things that would have happened even if the camera wasn't there so someone can have a bird's eye view of what's happening in a very authentic way but it is another way like you're speaking of i think of just taking a different role as opposed to being a direct intimate participant in what's going on it a different kind of role.
But still, sexual, even shooting video is a sexual thing. Absolutely, and you hit the nail on the head there for what I'm taking away from this. We have three people on this podcast right now, and all three of us in other areas where we are disengaging in a certain method, but differently, and for perhaps slightly different, but similar reasons, I'm thinking, as well.
So that's really interesting so again it guys if you're out there listening this is about normalizing your experiences and and there you go there's three people on this call all who have different methods of dealing with this I guess so Liam over to you now this is a little bit of a sharp edge knife question but do you think women are women are inherently more complicated in the bedroom and thus by contrast i dare to say it but men more simple and that's why there's less orgasms on the female side and more orgasms on the male side and feel free to drop into talking about genitalia versus psychological stuff too i'd like to get deep yeah so i you've actually hit on a very sensitive point for me, and that is the characterization of women as complicated and men as simple.
Oh, I knew you'd have a lot to say about this. That's why you're here, buddy. Yeah. So hopefully you were just setting me up for that and I'm not shocking you here.
You hear it say even outside of sex, the typical thing is, oh, you know, men, they're not in touch with their emotions they just say where's the beer what channel is the game on and that's the sum total of their level of engagement and and i know i'm not the only man who just recoils at that characterization of who we are so if you take that into the sexual realm now i say for me i was thinking about this the other day i believe i have had an orgasm in lifestyle situations two times in 10 years so not two times a month or two times a year two times in 10 years so that means once every five years and so i don't know if that makes me complicated but it certainly doesn't make me easy in 10 years.
So that means once every five years. And so I don't know if that makes me complicated, but it certainly doesn't make me easy in that sense. So a lot of those ideas about the differences between men and women, I find in our relationship are confounded. And when we look at our relationship as two people, Kate has way more orgasms than me.
As i mentioned earlier in our introduction i actually have the numbers so i'd say um in a typical month i'm coming 14 times and kate's coming 30 something times in our sex together as a couple that's not even to uh to address the whole psychological versus physical things right so you've kind of got you've got two mechanisms going on in a sexual situation right you've got your body and you know men really need to be responsive in order for sex to happen but then you've you've got the added obstacle of your mind and when you're comfortable and you know when it's and I together, your mind is not an obstacle.
It's not in the way it's actually it's helping, right. But in a lifestyle situation, your mind is worrying thinking about, you know, all these different, you know, new expectations and new bodies and, you know, new sensations and wanting to please these new people. So that becomes a big obstacle to the physical working. So you're not going to have an orgasm if you can't get hard, right? So there's this two-step process to get through before you can even get to the, is an orgasm going to happen or not? Are you womansplaining what it's like to be a man? Well, you didn't talk about it.
She's doing a good job, I got to admit. She's doing a very good job. It's a frighteningly good job, actually. You just said something there, Kate, and I just want to, I guess, just group think this, but you talked about expectations being tenfold. You both play with threesomes. You've played in foursome situations and definitely in group situations, and, of course, you talk about that often on your blog.
When we talk about expectations being tenfold, when you're playing perhaps with another solo person or another couple or in a group session, do those expectations of tenfold then go twentyfold, thirtyfold, a hundredfold? Do you think that the bigger the group, the higher the expectations and the more perhaps in our head we become? Or is it just all the same regardless of who you're with because it's a new play partner? I think for me, it's the opposite, actually. It's easier in a group. Because in a two on two situation, you are each other's only option, right?
So if something isn't working for one or more of the partners, the whole party shuts down. But if you're in a situation with six or eight or 10 people, you can very easily step aside and not ruin anyone's fun. You know, so if one dick's not hard, there's probably going to be another one around that is right, or there will be other women to entertain you.
So I feel like in a group situation, it's actually a lot easier to just kind of get in there when you feel moved and step away when when you're struggling i actually prefer i think we both prefer to be in a group situation of six or more rather than that intense focus of a two-on-two how about you yeah well that's where you also get into familiarity so definitely with an unfamiliar group i would agree that's more comfortable but my most comfortable situation is long-time play partners who are familiar with and then generally none of that pressure is there you have a knowledge of how their body works they have a knowledge of how your body works and it's a lot easier okay and we are actually going to talk about long-term play partners in the next section in a little while too i want to i want to hone in on dominic and maria in particular but before we leave that i'm going to put you guys in the hot seat beautiful now listen everybody sort of says we don't take one for the team everybody says i've never faked it you know there's these kind of cliches that exist in the lifestyle the inverted pineapple i mean you know somebody said the other day that you know how to spot a swinger they inverted pineapples in a hot tub and we don't have either.
So I don't know whether that makes us a non-swinger, but the hot seat, if you hear me say, or another person say, I've never faked it. I got to know, do you call bullshit? That's my first question. But my second part of this is, are these people bad people? Are they socially responsible to own up to their faking of orgasms? Where do we sit on that? Let's kind of discuss this in the hot seat because it is a little bit of a interesting topic.
Yeah, I think you can never separate a performative part from the, I'll say, authentic part of any interaction with anyone and definitely in a sexual situation.
So I don't begrudge someone who adds a performative element that they feel like maybe they're what some would call faking an orgasm actually expresses something deep in them that's not what you think it is but is showing their joy and affirmation we have a good male friend who makes us i think it's fair to say a spectacle out of this orgasm and he's someone you met recently in france i'll just mention that to you and it's it's incredible there's an actual real orgasm in there somewhere but the bells and whistles the fireworks that accompany it are pretty spectacular but that's a part of who that individual is so actually if it turned out that he was faking which of you know we know it's kind of harder for a man to fake an orgasm but it wouldn't change the thing because he's expressing a part of who he is and i think anyone who says they've never faked it or taken one for the team i'd probably call bullshit on that i mean unless well i don't know they're just very unlike me.
Have we ever not taken one for the team? People say they never take one for the team. I just think the miracle of a total mutual four-way connection is so difficult. And so I realize now I'm offending all of our past partners who say, uh-oh, but there's always just a discrepancy.
Someone's more into it than the other and i think that's okay and i don't mind if the other couple feels that way if they feel like wow love that kate liam could do without i don't take that personally so that idea that if you're part of being a good partner to your partner is that you're going to participate in situations that may not be the best for you, but might be awesome for them, then I think that's an essential lifestyle and life skill. Right. And I do have to fake orgasm sometimes because I'm really upfront with people when I tell them I hardly ever come from oral.
I tell my partners that up front but everybody feels like they've got the best technique and you know you haven't experienced this right so they go to town you know fingering the shit out of me and i'm just like please stop and you know sometimes the subtle tap on the head doesn't work. So you got, you got to just fake it so that they can feel gratified and stop, and you can move on to the thing you actually want to do. So sometimes it's just a self-preservation technique.
Kate, I a hundred percent agree with what you're saying, but Liam, you mentioned about maybe it's something that they like to do, you know? So one of my things was our fakers bad people, you know, maybe it is part of, part of the performance, but also so many people approach the lifestyle different ways. We know that we Thank you.
like to do you know so one of my things was our fake is bad people you know maybe it is part of part of the performance but also so many people approach the lifestyle different ways we know that we all approach it very differently even on this call we approach it very differently and i think if somebody comes and that's their enjoyment then who am i to belittle what they're doing you know if they want it on that performance so i think that inherently when we think about you know i faked it it's because it's coming from a place of it's a self-esteem buster for us.
And I think that we probably need to step outside of that sometimes and realize why they're doing it. Like what Kate said, is it because they feel like they want to move on to the next thing? Or is it like what you said, Liam, that maybe that's part of their kink or part of their enjoyment? We don't know. Right. Well, we don't know.
Every moan, is that an authentic moan moan every smile is that coming from the heart or is it someone just trying to make a connection with someone else so it's just a bottomless pit if we try to discern the authenticity of every gesture of every partner and orgasms included in that absolutely able to make us very cynical people to to be around as well so probably not a great idea yes so let's move on to communication because we're delving a little bit into this communication side kate you just spoke about you like to tell people up front that maybe oral is is not going to to get you over the line so i want to start talking about this so non-monogamous relationships, really any relationship, be it a friendship, a partnership, doesn't matter, work colleagues even, we say communication is the biggest success, right?
There is going to be breakdowns in that regardless, again, if it's your primary partner or with other non-monogamous friends. Let's talk about some of your examples in particular. And again, Liam, I know we're going to break off into some of your own experiences. Kate, I was going back and although I've been an avid reader, as I mentioned before, for many, many years, I reread your entire blog archive recently in the last couple of weeks to do some research. So I found that in October of 2019, you admitted to faking an orgasm. And actually the blog title is Confessions of an Orgasm Faker.
And then in January 2021, because this is how much of a stalker I am, you had an orgasm with a play partner. So I want to start talking about these, right? Because this is exciting stuff. If an orgasm isn't the end goal, we spoke about why we think we're faking it. That's already kind of covered various reasons. But Kate, what percentage of play partners have you spoken to about how you like to be pleased? And has that changed over the years back from, you know, 2018 or 2019, when you were talking about faking to now?
You know, are you more open with telling people like, this is exactly what I need, what I want, what's going to get me over the line? Has that changed at all? Yeah, I'd say it definitely has. I've gotten a lot more comfortable giving instructions. So in the past, it might take me two or three play sessions to feel comfortable enough with someone to say, okay, I'm a little tricky, but this is what I need.
But now I feel confident enough that even with, know the first time with someone new I can direct him and just say okay I'm gonna lie down here you go behind me like this I'm gonna grab my vibrator and then you know this is how I come and and quite often it works that's been rewarding I guess for me and for my play partners but yeah that I think the the person you're talking about probably Dominic. So we've known Dominic and Maria for, I don't know, four or five years. And we went to their wedding in Italy and they're really good friends. We see them frequently.
So with him, I was able to give him direction early on in our relationship. And now it's, you know, it's almost as reliable with him as it is with Liam. So he knows exactly what I like and how to do it. And he loves it. He thinks it's a super cool position, I guess is kind of unique. He loves your ass. So yeah, so it works with them. So I think just being direct and saying, hey, you know, this is what I need. It's going to be gratifying for me. But when I have an authentic orgasm, it's really great. You're going to like it, too. I think everybody appreciates that.
So, you know, everybody comes to this wanting to please their partner. So whatever hesitance I had at the beginning about revealing this kind of Secret formula? Embarrassing four-step process. That's pretty much gone out the window. I'm pretty direct and upfront now. And it works most of the time. Great. And we're actually going to, I'm going to ask you some questions later about how you could give advice to other people that might be going through that.
First of all, I'm curious, and both of you can answer this, but when you're with a new new play partner you just mentioned there that you're instigating that conversation with them you're providing them with the tools with the information but I'm curious how many people may come to either you Kate or even sometimes might go to the partner Liam and say hey can you help me as this new play partner I'm curious how do I how do I please your partner any or gold star advice? Does that happen to you guys? Or do you kind of get there first?
Yeah, I think I've had people come to me, knowing that Liam is a bit of a puzzle, female partners who, who really are into him, but know that he's, you know, he's a little reticent to get involved sexually, have come to me and said, what's the secret? Like, how do I let him know that I'm into him? So it's not necessarily like, how do I help him have an orgasm? It's more, how do I engage him? How do I make him feel comfortable with me? So that's been nice.
I like being able to, you know, give the insider information about, you know, here's what he really needs to feel, you know, reassured that you're into him. And I think that's worked on a few occasions where women have taken that instruction and then gone and been, because they'll need someone who's a little more aggressive. He's so much the gentleman that he'll hang back and maybe miss an opportunity. So he needs a woman to really engage him and be very reassuring that she wants this. So that's not too hard to explain to people.
And I've had some women then go and be, you know, much more assertive with him. And it's not even assertive, attentive. Yeah, sure. Right. Yeah.
So it's nice to see that direct line between here's the advice and then actually seeing it work out in the bedroom i've been able to give men advice with kate in sexual situations so not up front to say here's the formula but if it's going really well like i'll say that's her position or let or i'll say to k get in your orgasm position this is what now say to the guy this is what you need to do and always I think my instincts are good that always when it's welcome not when it's kind of overbearing there was one time though with a new single guy where Liam was kind of negotiating this the setup of the date right where he sent him kind of like a bullet list of here's what she likes here's what she doesn't like right and down to your your car accident 17 years ago and not to do any aggressive neck movements yeah don't pull her hair because not that she doesn't like having her hair pulled but her neck is sensitive so this guy had the whole roadmap going in i wouldn't surprise me well it worked really well i wouldn't surprise me if he had notes written on his hand just make sure that he retained them all actually and just to let you guys know what you just mentioned there with with liam kate you were talking about polite flirting we did an episode very very long time ago about polite flirting and the five styles of flirting in general and where people sat on there and polite flirting is based on the proper manners and a more cautious way of communicating interests.
That's obviously where Liam sits, but matching that with somebody who's in the polite flirting style as well, not necessarily going to have it, makes a great dinner conversation. May not make for bedroom antics. So, no, I really appreciate that you guys spoke so much about that. Thank you very much. And yes, you did mention Dominic and Maria earlier. I want to touch a little bit more on them. The relationship obviously grew to a place where you felt that you could express yourself, which is fantastic.
And so thinking about how your relationship grew with them them maybe what would be some advice that you might give to somebody out there who's listening either the primary person who wants to communicate their desires and needs to new play partners or perhaps the spouse who also wants to maybe communicate that to the play partners on how their spouse likes to be pleasured. Do you guys have any, I guess, information or advice or tips or tricks that you would give to make sure that people are taking ownership on that?
Well, I would say at the bedrock of all of that is some level of being selective about your partners. So I know with Dominic and Maria, we felt an attraction to them right away. I can remember the first time she smiled at me. I just looked at her across the room and her smile said something that whatever, everything that happened after that completely bore out.
So she's the kind of person who is very open, very forgiving, very unjudgmental so if you think of you know the person who says oh i can't stand this political leader or that sports team and they're all of their conversations about making judgments you're not going to feel comfortable later saying um here's something that's maybe a little unorthodox but that really works for me in in her non-verbal or verbal but non-sexual communication she really just said i'm an open-minded non-judgmental person so finding someone like that is going to make a big difference and then of course the flip side of always of that always is being that person so can't control what other people are like, but being that person yourself is going to invite those kinds of people to you and make that communication so much easier.
I just wrote a note about that. As I was writing my notes, I said receiver being open to doing that as well, because it is a two-way street. So thank you very much. You already mentioned that, Liam. Well done on closing that out. And sorry, Kate, over to you. Right. So once you find those people who you feel comfortable enough to express your desires with, then you kind of have two opportunities to have the conversation. So it can either be in advance of play.
So it can be kind of fun over drinks to talk about how you like to come or what's your favorite position or do you have any kinks or is anything off the table? So that can be kind of fun, sexy lead up conversation to a playtime. But if that feels too awkward in the midst of play, you still have lots of freedom to do that directing we were talking about earlier. So, you know, for me, even if I don't lay out exactly the three-step process to make me orgasm in advance, I can quite easily in the moment say, okay, I'm going to lie on my stomach. I want you to get behind me.
I'm going to keep my legs closed. You know, fuck me like that. And, and it's kind of sexy in the moment to get those directions. It just becomes kind of part of the play.
So you don't even necessarily have to lay it all out before play starts but you can make it part of the play part of the sexy talk like oh yeah fuck me hard from behind i love it when you do that wait just slower slower yeah i'm almost there right so giving that direction can be part of the the sexy talk and were you nervous the first time that you did that do you, is this one of those things where practice does make perfect having these conversations when you first said it versus now?
I mean, is it just a matter of, look, you're going to say it the first time you're going to feel awkward, but the 10th, the 12th time, you know, you got this. Yeah. I think, I think with everything, the more you do it, the easier it is. And I'm not naturally a talk in bed kind of person. I struggle a little bit with sexy talk during sex. So that's something I've had to work on and kind of be actively engaged in practicing. But yeah, it definitely gets easier. And, you know, having a drink or a little edible also helps to just loosen the tongue and make you feel less inhibited in the moment.
And can I say something that might be controversial? Absolutely, 100%, bring it on. Good, because that's my kind of conversation. I think there is a gender difference in that it's easier for women to express their needs than it is for men.
So women are so in demand in the lifestyle and their pleasure is seen as paramount i don't think there's anything kate could ask for that a guy wouldn't do i think there's lots of things a guy could ask for that be no that's kind of not really my thing or it's seen as forceful yeah i think you know the example kate just gave is a good one for us to dissect fuck me from behind you know i like that or do this or do that i think that you're right that if a a man was to say all of a sudden all right get on your hands and knees i'm gonna fuck you from behind and then hey pick up that vibrator or whatever it might be i think you're right there is definitely going to be some inputs there that are going to be taken completely different once we dissect the media that's coming in and the output is going to be totally different versus perhaps it is seen as sexy as a woman doing it because it's seen as empowerment.
It's owning our orgasm. It's that empowerment of I'm going to tell you what I want because I'm that vixen in bed versus perhaps a male doing it can be interpreted as being aggressive being pushy maybe even not being interested in her desires which we spoke about before perhaps is sometimes what we see as the critical piece of information and when we're when we're doing the swinging lifestyle or playing at all so right what if the man says i want you to play with my feet. So he's saying that something that sounds feminine.
So not that he's coming in too forceful, which is a great example that you gave. But what if his desires are completely on the other end of the spectrum? And the woman goes, I was hoping to be fucked by a he-man, not tend to the precious needs of a girly boy.
So so's at both ends of the spectrum men have different pitfalls to navigate on their way through and things that might make them think twice about expressing what the real needs are 100 and i guess that goes back to what we're talking about before is being open to receiving that information you know and i think too that throughout the dating process we should kind of get a feel for our partners anyway so one would hope through the dating process unless it's a wham bam thank you man in a club we should kind of maybe have an inkling that there is some interest in that i would hope by the time you get to the bedroom anyway right really good points really good points and i think we could probably spend hours uh dissecting that in particular um how we interact in the bedroom and expressing our desires and needs and wants, particularly as different sexes.
But all right, we're going to put you back on the hot seat. There has been talk about ethical non-monogamy, consensual non-monogamy. This is something that's definitely coming to mainstream media a lot more now. I've noticed intriguing information about people using the term ethical non-monogamy and consensual non-monogamy. So some people might say they're non-monogamous. Some people say they're consensual. My question to you is, what is the term ethical non-monogamy? What does it mean to you? Is it a fluff piece? Are we just paying lip service to something? Let's break it down.
Like you said, Liam, you like controversial topics, so I'm going to let you go first. Well, I had affairs in my previous marriage before Kate. So that was non-consensual, non-monogamy. That was unethical, non-monogamy. So that is not what I have with Kate. So it seems to me that there's an obvious difference that needs to be spelled out for people. Then when you get into examining ethical non-monogamy itself, that, of course, is also a spectrum in terms of how people treat each other in the relationship and in their adventures together. I think those are really important issues to talk about.
And they really they have some importance.
It's not just decoration on the cake it's the cake itself yeah and i like these terms because they're a little more inclusive so i i don't like the term swinger even though for most of our sexual adventure that's how we have fought you know that's the category we basically fall into but it conjures images of you know just the down to fuck one night stand i don't even care about your name kind of play style that i know some people engage in but that's not been our experience um you know we have these long-term friends that we really care about and and now we're kind of verging into poly kind of situation i kind of have a girlfriend now and so to to say we are consensually or ethically non-monogamous encompasses more of our actual experience than just just swingers so i I like it because it's a broader term, but I know Wednesday Martin who wrote Untrue, she really has a problem with the term ethical non-monogamy because it kind of passes a moral judgment.
She prefers consensual non-monogamy because it's more morally neutral. So we're not saying that we are ethically superior to people who have other kinds of non-monogamous situations, that we are consensual in our participation in non-monogamy. So I think I generally use consensual non-monogamy most often for those reasons. It's interesting you talk about superiority amongst people that are non-monogamous.
I a podcast many years ago about this actually we just dissected that sometimes people in different stages or different forms or different ways that they approach non-monogamy can feel a bit superior but what i've even noticed now is that there is a feeling of superiority between non-monogamous people and monogamous people i'm seeing a lot of stuff on social media these days pointing to the fact that monogamy is toxic and non-monogamy is the way of the future and me personally and again this may not be everybody's opinion but i believe that all relationships have value you know and it's not for everybody so there are some non-monogamous creators on spaces like twitter and instagram that are you know spelling the good word of non-monamy, but unfortunately they're then saying monogamy is toxic.
And I think there's a danger in that too, right? Right. Well, and there are a lot of people who, you know, are polyamorous who think that swingers are less ethical or less moral in their approach. So, yeah, I mean, there's always going to be people who look outside of their little narrow group and feel like I'm better than you. I've got it more figured out than you. I don't want to be part of that. I think consensual non-monogamy has worked really well for us. And I do feel like monogamy was was a difficult road for us in our past lives.
And I want my kids to know that non-monogamy is an option. So I think there are definitely things about monogamy that I would like to change. I don't want it to be the default for everyone all the time. I'd like there to be a freedom for people to choose, but I don't think it's toxic. I don't think it's wrong for people. Right. Well, we consider that central to our Not that everyone should try non-monogamy, but that everyone should consider non-monogamy. And considering means it's okay to consider it and say, it's not for me. Exactly.
Just understanding it's like myself and Daryl, for example, we are we are child free by choice and we considered having a child and we decided not to. And that's a huge life decision.
And I think relationships, understanding that understanding that there is a choice you know you don't have to have the family and the picket fence and the one dog you can choose the direction that your lifestyle goes in and so I agree I think people should be aware of it research it understand it a little bit more and then make that decision I think it's awesome there's going to be a lot of resources guys in the show notes today obviously there's some fantastic resources that I can offer you aside from the Monogamish Marriage blog, which is She Comes First.
We've got Come As You Are and Tell Me What You Want. All fantastic doctors that have produced some amazing content, books that talk about the orgasm gap, talk about using your voice, communicating better. But as we get ready to close out on the podcast here, Kate and Liam, a little personal snapshot. What's next for you? I mean, I know you guys just got a fantastic Whiz Bang logo, so that looks amazing. So my question's twofold. Like, what's next for you both?
And then I want to delve into if you could change something about society's expectations or idea of what sexuality is, what would it be? Which is a bigger question than what's next for you both. Well, I mean, the exciting thing that's happening for me right now is venturing into the world of polyamory. So I've made not just an amazing sexual connection, but also an emotional connection with this woman who is amazing. And I'm super excited about that. So that's a big step for us.
So, you know, 10 years in this lifestyle, we've had very good friends who we care a lot about, but there's never been, you know, the temptation to think about love or those big, crazy words, but that's, you know, that's maybe on the horizon. So that's exciting and scary and terrifying and awesome. So that's a big thing. And another is, you know, Kate, that we'll be appearing at PCAP Encore in Dallas in November. I hope you're aware of that. And we're going to be giving a presentation on bisexuality for couples.
And in terms of our thinking right now, in terms of the landscape of our lifestyle I'll be right back.
presentation on bisexuality for couples and in terms of our thinking right now in terms of the landscape of our lifestyle journey it has completely changed with some breakthrough situations in terms of bisexuality for both of us in a way that makes us feel like oh 10 years in our best years are definitely ahead of us because now we the subtitle is the pleasure multiplier and subtitle for our seminar is the pleasure multiplier and just all of the different possibilities that come into play when you take the taboos away from bisexuality and again that's a spectrum it doesn't mean one thing it can mean very subtle things to very obvious things.
But that's something that really excites us as a couple right now. Yeah. So if we were going to answer what would we like to change about the sexual landscape, it would be just for people to be a little more open to pleasure in any form from any direction. So if that's a man looking across an orgy at another man and feeling like I would really like to touch his cock right now, just letting him have the mental freedom to do that, you know, just being more open to the possibilities that both sexes afford in this lifestyle. It doesn't mean you have to go gay or anything.
No, but it's been a given among women for so long. It just makes logical sense that the same opportunity is out there for men if they can get past the intense socialization against it that happens right from childhood to adulthood. Yeah, 100%. And actually, so that you guys just spilled the T.
seminar at pcap is is one that i'm really looking forward to and is actually probably one of the reasons why i'm hiring more staff because i want to sit in on some of these seminars myself but perhaps what we can do we can come and revisit you guys i think after pcap we'll see where your polyamory journey is going we'll maybe sit down and we'll have a little bit of a talk about bisexuality because i think it is extremely important to discuss and i think there are a lot of people out there of all sexes that are interested in exploring it a little bit more but maybe don't know how to get started or feel like they don't even know how to have the conversation with their primary partner so really good points i love it now if you guys are out there listening and you're curious how to get in contact with Kate and Liam from The Monogamish Marriage, there will be a ton of links in the show notes.
But I just want to mention these two very important ones. The website is themonogamishmarriage.com with their fancy new logo. Go and check that out. And if you guys want to support them on Patreon, you can, of course, go to patreon.com forward slash themonogamishmarriage.
And also their social media links will be in the show notes so go and check them out but kate and liam it's been great you know it's been about four years since you guys have been on the show that's way too long it's way too long i didn't even i don't even know how we're running a podcast without you guys being on show to bring our intellectual stimulation i wasn't trying to suggest that we're indispensable but just how important you are to us it just seems like it should have happened earlier and it's been great it's been a fantastic conversation i really appreciate your candor it's very important to have these conversations and anybody out there listening who feels like you're alone feels like you're not doing the lifestyle right here has been a perfect conversation to let you know there is no right way it is how you approach your journey experience your journey journey.
And please do reach out to people like Kate and Liam because they've got a wealth of knowledge that they can share with you. But thank you so much for joining us, guys. Thank you, Kate. And our love to Daryl and Penny. Bye. Hi, guys, and welcome back. I'm here with a really interesting guest. I have Jeff, who is the CEO of Absorption Pharmaceuticals on the line, and he has worked for the company for more than 10 years and, in fact, was part of the Original Investment Group and is a huge advocate for mental and sexual health. Welcome to the podcast, Jeff. We're so happy to have you here.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate being a guest. Now, I've done a little bit of research on you right so i'm gonna i'm gonna throw some questions your way we're gonna get this started we want to know a little bit about jeff before we kind of get into the nuts and bolts of what promescent is my question to you is why are you so passionate about sexual health and well-being where did that stem from where did it come from uh it comes from a couple different areas one from a lifestyle standpoint we'll go into that first.
And number two, having taken over this company and realized how many people don't communicate and how a lack of openness and communication represses people's sexual lives. so the first of all like my own personal evolution i'm 64 years old i've never been married and here in the states especially where i come from it's almost assumed that you're going to get married at 28 or 30, settle down, have four kids, live the traditional lifestyle. I kind of had that mindset because always drilled into me. That's what you do. One thing led to another. I became a single parent. I had a son at age 32.
He's now 32. I'm 64. He's the highlight of highlight of my life I adore him as he started to grow and I hadn't gotten married yet because I took five years between 32 and 37 to really get into the fatherhood thing and you know stabilize him then I started thinking you know I really don't have to get married I don't want to have kids later in life I don't want to be changing diapers when I years old. Okay, that's absurd. And I've worked really hard because I come from very humble beginnings. You know, I had those five years where it was really solidifying my relationship as a single dad.
And then even up until the time my son graduated from high school, I had started my own company, was running that, had hundreds of people in my employment.
And between that and being a full-time dad, and I was very very active hands-on I feel like I missed a certain part of my life where I was just so busy being a father you know starting my business that I kind of went through this after all that ended now I want to get out start dating see the world you know and what I was referring to before when I got involved in this company I've always just been very open been a very good communicator because to me it's this that's the key of success good open honest communication is a fundamental building block of relationships with your family your employees your friends you know everything so i've just never had an issue with that and i took over this company and i've never been so blown away in my life i'm very hands-on with all of our customers all of our doctors that we work with and everything else i see people that you know either the husband or wife will come to me and they go you know i have severe pe or i have this i have this issue it's been going on for 15 years i go well you know how does your partner view it they go i don't know we never talked about it yeah wait wait excuse excuse me you sleep with someone every single night okay you're swapping bodily fluids okay you're you haven't discussed this in 15 years they're like no i can't comprehend that so i've been a real advocate like you said earlier for better intimacy people look at sex and intimacy and they think if the man doesn't have a 10 inch penis the circumference of a beer can he doesn't thrust and penetrate for 45 minutes and right before ejaculation he hops off runs across the room and shoots the woman in the forehead from 20 feet away you know i mean and if a woman during sex doesn't have an orgasm like elizabeth berkeley and showgirls where she's flopping around like a fish you know what i mean and going insane that people have these preconceived notions that it's not good sex that's not sex that normal people have okay let's be honest okay our message has always been about intimacy it's always been about a higher degree of intimacy that doesn't mean intimacy because you're a couple you're married long no intimacy is intimacy okay if you're going to be intimate with someone you should be open and honest both about anything you know whether it's products you're using whether it's conditions that you've had whether it's whatever it is just be open and honest that way no one ends up getting hurt no one.
No one ends up going, oh my God, if I would have known, I wouldn't have done this. I would have done that. Those types of situations. So that's the journey that brought me to where I'm at. You spoke a lot about communication there and intimacy, and it's not just about communication necessarily with your wife or husband or spouse or partner. It can be communication even with yourself.
And I really want to take a moment and talk about the orgasm gap we know it exists we've just spent a whole other segment before I've interviewed you today talking about that we know that about 20 percent of women can orgasm from vaginal stimulation we know that they may have an orgasm 30 to 40 percent of time and in contrast to men 95 percent men, 95% of the time. So it exists. There's multiple ways to tackle it.
We just spent that whole segment previous to this talking about communication, but I want to delve into sexual wellness products, and that's obviously where you come in, Jeff, and where your products come in. You have a number of product lines, and I want to run through them all, but first of all, I want to talk about the master product, if you will, which is the delay spray. So for those of us out there who have no idea what this is, what is a delay spray? Can you get clinical with it? And then can you take it back to basics for me?
Is a delay spray something that is prolonging my life so I live forever? What is it? Let's drill down into what the actual product is and how it can help people in the bedroom. Actually, I wish we had a complimentary product to our regular delay spray that did allow you to live forever. Your point is well taken about, let's break it down to its technical components, what makes it what it is, but then let's get back to the general of what delay sprays do. So there had been a number of delay sprays on the market for the last 30 to 40 years. They were basically lidocaine suspended in a formula.
You applied it. It would numb a man, which allowed him to last longer. Unfortunately, it would also numb the female.
So both partners would be vigorously thrusting and exercising and sweating, but no one was achieving satisfaction because, let's face it, you have intimacy to eventually get to the point where you both climax and orgasm and feel good you were able to use these other products and extend you know intimacy but unfortunately you weren't able to enjoy it because the whole idea is to eventually have a powerful climax or orgasm so dr ronald gilbert who was my next door neighbor my doctor and my friend realized when people came to see him for ED, he had many solutions, Viagra, Cialis, Levitra, Stendra, Trimac shots.
They came to see him with prostate issues. He had many solutions, incontinence issues, many solutions. They came with PE. It was like, well, you can either numb yourself up and numb your partner, not enjoy that, or you can take SSRI. They are the depression drugs, Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft. They actually allow a man to last longer. But unfortunately, just like with the delay sprays that had existed prior, they come with a significant set of trade-offs. In this case, dry mouth, nausea, vomiting, loss of libido, suicidal thoughts.
Excuse me, I'd'd rather have pe okay then and they're not demand so you have to take them every single day and it takes two weeks to build up in your system before you have any benefit from it that's really not a good thing to live with that 24 7 with the idea that if you're having sex once twice whatever a week that you have to live with all those side effects. So what Ron did, he got together with a PhD in organic chemists from the University of Georgia, and they developed this eutectic formula. What that does, it changes the crystalline structure of lidocaine.
Okay, so lidocaine, as it exists normally, is a solid, it's a crystal. It sits on the surface of your skin.
So it sits the surface it numbs you but it also transfers numbs your partner this eutectic formula they created changes the melting point of lidocaine which turns it oil aqueous so when it does that and you apply it within five to seven minutes it goes beneath the surface or the stratum cornea of the skin the man maintains a much higher degree of surface sensitivity and it doesn't transfer to his partner so therefore you're able to have control you're able to last longer but you still feel the sensation and your partner is unaffected there's a lot of people that use our product i call them their recreational users they don They don't qualify as traditional P.E.
because the actual definition of the medical community is never lasting more than 90 seconds under any circumstance, whether it's masturbation, vaginal sex, anal sex, oral sex or whatever.
so just because you last five minutes or in some cases you last 10 minutes but your partner takes 14 minutes you're way out of the range of premature ejaculation but you can be helped by products that help bridge that arousal gap yeah and it sounds to me like going through some of the i guess the older ways that people would deal with premature ejaculation you spoke about you know some of these more mental i guess medications that have a lot of side effects to me that just seems like you know and you have to use them for two weeks before before they're effective it seems like there's a lot of taboo around that because I know if if that was me and I had to constantly think about well I better I better get this now you know two week delay I just I imagine that would put a lot of pressure and a lot of taboo on someone so it makes a lot of sense my next question though again for people out there who may be thinking about using something like a delay spray who may be also on some form of medication and they're using Cialis maybe they're using Viagra these are common things that might be used especially in the swinging and non-monogamous lifestyle can you use something like a delay spray with those products is there any issues surrounding that there's no contraindications using you with Viagra Cialis Levitra anything like that the only thing i will tell you if you have a bad heart extended intercourse check with your doctor because you know obviously you're going to raise your heart rate and be having sex for a lot longer period of time so you better make sure that the heart is in good shape you know what i mean but where there's no contraindications with viagra cialis levitra um all right let's let's kind of talk a little bit now about sexual health and society in particular, because you just touched on it there beautifully, that there is some taboo around people asking for help, seeking help, maybe even coming to terms with this on their own, that they might feel like they're not performing enough.
So it's a really good topic to explore. And I guess to start off, when you think about sexual wellness, what does that mean to Jeff, the CEO of a pharmaceutical company? What does sexual wellness mean to you specifically? That means to me, sexual wellness is getting the most out of your intimacy, getting the most enjoyment out of your intimacy, getting the highest degree of health, mental, physical health. And my life has taught me not only for me, but those around me and those that I talk to that when you're having good sex on a regular basis, you feel good about everything in your life.
And consequently, when you're not having good intimacy, that it does affect you. You feel not quite as vibrant and you feel maybe not quite as successful.
And that translates and puts you a darker mood you know i couldn't agree more with what you're saying there jeff regarding sexual wellness because you put it in the exact same camp as i would use for health wellness and my mental state when i've been going to the gym even if i'm not seeing results on my perhaps physical appearance it just mentally flips that switch so i walk into that business meeting or I walk into that holiday owning it a little bit more. And I think that you can say the same thing about orgasms and feeling like you are, I guess, a sexual goddess in some way, shape or form.
It does really change your perception on a lot of things. So I have been doing a little bit of research on Promescent and you have recently graced the shelves of Walmart. Now, speaking about taking the taboo out of sexual wellness, out of sex, I mean, in America, sex, just saying that on a radio show, saying that on a TV show, just the word sex, even on social media is going to get people going, what? Hold on a second. And you get a lot of naysayers, a lot of taboo. Being on the shelves of Walmart, really big deal. This has obviously been a very big, long road.
And so my question is, how can we as, I guess, sexual positive people continue to push things further? I think it's breaking down barriers that it's normal to talk about sex and quit making it some religious experience, quit making it like some mystic, you know, mind altering thing that has all kind of properties that don't belong in it. Because after all, it's a bodily function, you know, just like you eat and you urinate and, you know, certain urges hit you and you act on them. You know, you're hungry.
You have sex is the same thing you feel an urge you feel a sexual desire for release now i'm not advocating go out and have unprotected sex with every human being on planet earth that's irresponsible but what i'm saying is it's okay there's a reason why you have those urges there's a reason why you have urges for everything in life that in the proper context, when you feel comfortable, then you satisfy those urges, whether it's eating a steak, whether it's whatever, whether it's having sex with the right person that fits for you at that point of time, that just really feel comfortable with who you are.
It's okay to go, I'm gonna take a protein supplement when when I go work out because I get, you know, more energy and my muscles, you know, heal faster. It's OK. If you're a diabetic, it's OK to take insulin. Why is there this stigma that, oh, here's a product that might help you perform better in the bedroom that, oh, well, we can't have that on the shelves. Why not?
there are steps that we can take and i agree with you talking about it is the first step talking about it with your children absolutely you know and continuing to try to get a little bit more progressive about it that does lead me to my next point because you obviously are around a lot of clinical people and talking about this is the first step and i guess admitting that you would like to seek help is a first step.
How would you, what would be a gold, I guess, a gold star piece of advice that you would give for somebody out there who might want to talk to their medical practitioner about some of the things that they're dealing with, you know, and how they can perhaps seek help. What would your advice be to that person? Seek out the right person because there's a lot of charlatans. So do your homework. Find someone who's a qualified sexual specialist. Go to them and be totally open. Let go of the stigma. These medical professionals, whether it's Dr.
Rachel Rubin, who's on our board, or Larry Levine, or Wayne Hellstrom, or Jed Kamenitzky, or, you know, Fai El-Safi, all these people that we have, they are compassionate. They are experts. They want to help you, but they can't help you unless you're open and honest and tell them what it is you're looking for. It's too important to suffer in silence. It's too important to go. I'm embarrassed. Everyone deserves the best sex life that they can possibly achieve in their life, just like everyone deserves the optimum heart health.
Take the proper steps to educate yourself, get tests, find out if there is an issue, what's causing it, and find out what's out there to mitigate it, that help you. And that's the message that I would like to tell people. It may not be us. In fact, I could care less if it's us. There's enough people out there that we're the right solution for that. If everyone goes and gets help and optimizes their intimacy, we'll benefit. But more importantly, you'll benefit. I've known about the delay spray for a couple of years now, actually.
And on researching for this segment, I found the wipes, for example, that were on the website, the pH balancing wipes. And I know that I've got some coming to me me right now and I'm really looking forward to using those and reviewing them because that's something that I use a lot of. And I'm excited because as you just said before, if there's a product that's working well and that same organization brings out other products, the assumption is they're going to be just as good. So I'm really looking forward to that.
And I really appreciate all of your time today, Jeff, on the podcast and just being so upfront and honest, particularly around, you know, if you are trying to have a child, don't use Promescent or, you know, there are other products that might be for you out there in the market. We're not for everybody. Exactly. And I will tell you this, the pleasure has been all mine for this reason. We were trying to help people, OK, not pushing people further away from thinking, well, if I use a product, there's something wrong with me. You know, that kind of a thing.
It's the type of podcast you have right here that you have a very thoughtful, really and truly genuine person who's connecting with a specific audience that they trust, the audience trusts them, and they do the research, okay? It's not some 15-second plug. Someone listening to me and hearing the passion that I have and hearing the explanation of what we do, why we do it, if it leads them to want to come try our products, then I'm thrilled.
If it doesn't, I'm also happy that maybe they'll go try something else but the idea is do everything you can to better your sex life do everything you can to achieve a higher level of intimacy the world's a better place if everybody's happier there will be less wars there'll be less you know people upset there'll be less road rage if you're driving around and you just had a great orgasm, you're not in the mood to fight. You're in the mood to go relax, listen to music, have a ham sandwich, smoke a joint, have a drink. You know what I mean?
To do something constructive, not something destructive. I couldn't agree more, Jeff. Everything you just said there, and to wrap this podcast up, if you are listening to this segment and you are out there and you want to better yourself, this is not necessarily just about performing longer necessarily. It is, I think, about having the discussion with yourself, having the discussion with your partner, finding out what might be missing, what could be better, and then going on that journey together, I think, as a collective is super important.
And wherever that journey ends you, whether it leads you to having 30 sex toys like Jeff here is on the line, whether it leads you to getting a delay spray, whether it leads you to even talking about cunnilingus, perhaps, I think definitely have those conversations and be unapologetic in wanting that better sex life, wanting better life so again jeff really appreciate everything that you said on the podcast thank you so much for everybody out there listening of course everything is going to be in the show notes thanks jeff thank you very much appreciate
