The swinging lifestyle often comes with a certain amount of evolution and shame. In this episode we are joined by Average Swingers Podcast and John and Jackie Melfi of OpenLove101 and Colette Swingers Clubs.
We talk about how the swinging lifestyle has changed and adapted over the years, the differences of expectations on swingers clubs, event hosts and public facing lifestyle people. We delve into shame and what impact that has on the lifestyle overall and then we talk about future predictions for the Swinging Lifestyle.
This episode has a little bit of everything for this round table discussion at the Melfi residence, coffee in hand and squirrels at the doorstep.
We would love you to consider supporting us on Patreon from only $1 a month & you’ll get access to exclusive content and live podcasts. Join us www.patreon.com/swingingdownunder
Featured in this episode
Average Swingers Podcast
John and Jackie Melfi
OpenLove101
Colette Swingers Clubs
Swinging Lifestyle Events
Podcast-A-Palooza sign up to the newsletter for future events
Hang out with Cate at the ASN Magazine Hotel Takeover in September
Head to Naughty In Nawlins this August
Cap D'Agde Spicy Match Takeover August
Head to our website for videos, blogs, podcasts, newsletters and swinging lifestyle resources.
Love, Peace and Respect
C&D
We are a swinging lifestyle podcast, we talk about sex, being a hotwife and non-monogamy, please ensure you are of legal age to be listening to our sexy stories.
If you’re interested in learning more about the swinging and hotwifing lifestyle join us on our sexy swinger hotwife podcast. We share information our personal experiences and journey, swinger event, swinging dating sites, reviews for swingers resorts and more.
Transcript
you're listening to the wanderlust swingers podcast with aussie hosts kate and daryl if you're curious about exploring your sexuality or the swinging hot wiping and non-monogamous lifestyle you've definitely come to the right podcast or maybe you just love travel adventures either way we share our personal sometimes juicy sexy stories as well as swingers club and event reviews interviews with other sassy people and of course our global swinging adventures. We try to bring you a look into the diverse lifestyle that the swinging and non-monogamous community has.
We hope you enjoy, now let's get into the episode. Hi guys, g'day and welcome back. I'm sitting here at the dining room table of the John and Jackie household. John and Jackie being from Open Love 101 and Collette Club. Thank you very much for joining us on the podcast. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Now, I'm also sitting here, obviously, with Jay and Angie from the Average Swingers podcast because I've been living with them as their flatmate and haven't left yet. So, frankly, they're here. Welcome. Welcome, guys. Welcome back. I'm just a driver. Anal. Until we start talking.
Well, if it's a subject, I'm interested. But what we thought we'd talk about today is actually a little bit about the evolution of the lifestyle, many, many years of experience sitting in front of me at this table and how it's evolved, what it's looked like, and I don't know, maybe some predictions from the future, but John, you were just about to bring up a good point about when you first started in the lifestyle. And let's talk about that phrase in particular. Yeah.
You know, I think we were, Jay had brought up that today, young people don't label themselves as being in a lifestyle or anything really.
And I was saying when I was young in 18, 19, I label myself either I just I had a just a good time we had uh I moved from Wichita Kansas because I didn't fit in in Kansas to Tampa Florida and my very first night there I got picked up by two girls at a bar one of them was a lesbian and the other one wanted to get with her and said will you take me home so I can get with my girlfriend she won't do anything blah and so we ended up doing that and that was my first threesome and then not long after that we had an orgy and so i didn't know what it was i just don't it was fun and i really enjoyed it and i think i've been like that ever since so it wasn't until i went to europe in the mid 90s to a club in amsterdam and i'm like oh oh, this is what I am.
And that's the first time I labeled myself. Yeah. I think in the 70s, we would have got to where we're at now with the younger people a lot quicker had the 80s and AIDS not rolled by. That put everything back a lot. Oh, that's true. But the people now are just hooking up. They just call it hooking up. Yeah.
When we started swinging we started swinging we thought the lifestyle we were meeting people to have sex and we had to you know think about this and go do this and look for it and now they're just like oh no you just get on your phone swipe left or right or i don't know somebody meets you or you don't know which way it's gone you know that they swipe but i know they swipe i don't know which know which way. If I thought I could do all right one of those apps, I'd probably give it a shot, but I don't see that working for me. So here's a question then.
With new people coming up and not wanting to, I guess, label what they're doing, do you think that there was a taboo on the word swinging and swingers? Do you think there's a slight taboo on the word lifestyle then?
Do people look maybe oh it's not a lifestyle it's just something i do on friday night with my friends like no no big deal or do you think it's just that they don't know to call it that i think they don't know i don't think you would know the word lifestyle as it relates to swingers until you were in it because really lifestyle can be many many things you can be in the bdsm lifestyle you can be in the foodie lifestyle or i don't know i mean there are many kind of lifestyles out there i think swinger still has a negative connotation to it though and we've in the past few years have really tried in our marketing to pull away from that a little bit and be more inclusive other things like poly open using the word consensual non-monogamy or ethical non-monogamy more than I ever did.
I mean, back in 2000, when we were first opening clubs, the only word we used was Swinger. There wasn't anything else to define what we were doing. Today, there's many words that define it.
It's interesting you talk about the SEO side of it, so I'm going to nerd out a little bit on here but actually I was looking into that as well well how do we I guess capture more people that might be starting to explore but don't necessarily call it that and so what are they googling what are they looking for information on these things and non-monogamy and consensual non-monogamy and ethical non-monogamy are trending upwards but actually swinger and swingers and swinging still continue to trend upwards as well so even though i think in our circles we might see the use of those terms decreasing actually the internet or the analytics on google actually suggest otherwise that people are continuing but they're also then using these other words as well so there you go a little bit of nerd information and threesomes yes threesomes is big and a lot of people over the years they don't consider i remember in new orleans we opened the club there and i went to some of the strip clubs to promote colette in new orleans and the the dancer would say yeah you know we're not into swinging and i'd carry on the conversation a little bit further and she would yeah husband and I, we bring girls home from the club all the time and have threesomes.
I'm like, well, that's what we do, too. You know, it's the same thing. It's just a different way to look at it. And I think today it's the same. People look for threesomes. That's like, what do you call those entry-level drugs to cocaine or heroin? Why are you looking at me? It's like dipping your toe in the waters with the threesome.
Yeah, the starter, the first first tasted no sorry that is drugs yeah uh the the threesomes i don't even know where you'd look for a threesome besides going to strip clubs where do you without getting online and everything the same thing on those apps you swipe left or swipe right yeah i would say apps but my friends in australia i don't know what it is but they pick up people from the but girls from the bar all the time just regular bars regular bars regular vanilla people there'll be a girl at the bar they'll start to talk to her and then the next thing you know they're taking her home which just astounds me that that still happens with the apps because it's so easy you know it's like ordering food now just swipe some people like the personal connection not necessarily looking at an app yeah i think if you go out on a date from an app you're you're committed to something at least an hour or two that's true there they just go to the bar and they could turn and walk away at any point that is true that's what i tell people like what's great about going to a swingers club is you can actually meet the people that you may end up hooking up with.
And if you go on a blind date through an app, you may find that there's not a connection there and you're not wasting as much time at a, at a club. Well, I hate the online dating thing. So I don't know if the app would be any better or not, but anytime we start to like do chatting email back and forth or whatever the hell, you might as well go ahead and forget about it for me because I'm just going to lose them. Apparently, I am good in person. Not so good if you actually got to read what I'm trying to type and say.
Then my dumbness comes through and they're like going, you understand what grammar is? I'm like going, he's that rapper, right? He's not country grammar, right? Not that one. I don't know then.
That's a fancy word that my english teacher used to use weird this is part of the reason we started doing the minglers and stuff because i'm like i need to meet people in person they like me better in person it's a gateway drug by the way yes gateway drug thank you well i mean let's talk about meeting and meeting in person then i mean i don't well we'll start with you jackie what have you seen as a difference in how let's talk about meeting in person then. I mean, we'll start with you, Jackie. What have you seen as a difference in how people are engaging and meeting other people?
And I guess then we can start to fold into expectations on what we think is going to happen in the future as well. Have you noticed any changes over the past few years? Well, I mean, definitely with the introduction of certain online sites, it makes it really easy for people to meet up. Definitely with the introduction of certain online sites, it makes it really easy for people to meet up because they can. They can just swipe and then they've... I mean, I've even done it.
I do the swipe and then the next thing you know you're texting and then you're scheduling a time to get together and there it is.
It's like you said, it's like ordering food food it's kind of crazy that our mindset is that but i notice it in the younger generation i know several 20 something girls that i kind of go to for their opinions about things and um hooking up that was a phrase that we talked about earlier that's really prevalent uh with with the younger people there there's not this sense of um a need for attachment when they're younger it's it's really more about exploration i think you know in my generation we were all about my whole goal in going to college was to find a husband so that i could get married and have kids.
And that was what my job was. That's what I was supposed to do. But that is not what I'm seeing with younger people. And so I think that the introduction of some of these sites and with the clubs, people getting together, it just seems like it's easier. More convenient. Yeah, more convenient. There's not so much of a... I don't feel like there's much of a stigma around it. But, of course, I don't think there's a stigma to what I do personally. So it's hard for me sometimes to see the stigma from outside. So I can ignore it so easily. I don't know. I don't...
like i have nine years of experience in this so i don't i don't really know i don't see the difference as much as somebody like john or you guys would see well and you were different too i mean when we first got together you told the bank that you worked for and your mom that i own swingers clubs and you were thinking about getting in that lifestyle yeah i mean i thought it was the coolest thing ever i'm like did you know that you can do this i mean hey listen to this this is amazing like i can go on a date and john's like yes go i'm like this is like my head is exploding you know and it didn't dawn on me that people might be like wait you can't really talk about that publicly yeah yeah it's like oh, it's like, oh yeah, watch me.
Tons. You can talk publicly about it. You can write books about it. I can and I did. Yes. What about you, Angie? Like hosting the meet and greets over so many years now, have you noticed a change in the people that are coming, what their expectations are on the meet and greet, how they interact with each other?
Yeah, i think i've also seen a change in us as hosts um when we first started them uh the point of it was is to meet a bunch of people at one time because we couldn't go out to dinner all the time every day of the week so we had listeners in the area and they wanted to meet us and we're like okay well we can't we're going to just do this everybody's going to meet here at this place it was a vanilla bar and I think maybe 20 people showed up and what half of them are close friends anyway so that's how we started a meet and greet it was to get um it was to get new people in and give them a positive experience on the on the initial walk-in you know so and then we've, I think we've advanced over the years is that now it's like he gets he gets a little upset with me jay does because i make him dress up dress nice because for these newbies now it's like you're the first people that they see when they walk in so we are representing our lifestyle we're representing our community we need to be good community.
We need to be good at it. We need to do good at it. Now, when we're not hosting, that's something different. I mean, but that's a good thing as well. So I'll move over to you now, Jay. Like, what responsibility do you think that hosts of meet and greet, club owners, event planners, what responsibility do you think they have to represent the lifestyle, not only within our own community, but then externally to the broader public? They've got a lot of risk. Aside from wearing a button-up shirt, which Angie makes you do, you know. Thank you.
do you think they have to represent the lifestyle not only within our own community but then externally to the broader public aside from wearing a button-up shirt which angie makes you do you know that and shoes um they actually got a lot of responsibility i want them to have a lot of responsibility because a lot of new people that's that's their first thing they're going to a club they're going to a meet and greet they're going to some kind of an event and this is how they're entering the lifestyle if they meet an asshole they think everybody's an asshole and i mean i say that i'm an asshole all the time but i try to be decent to people when i meet them i mean so i i i want everybody to really take that responsible you know really take it to heart and be a good ambassador for the lifestyle just maybe the person you're talking to isn't the person you really want to play with or be with or whatever the hell but the person they bring in maybe so if but if they have a bad experience with you or they think oh my god these people are just trash what am i doing yeah you're giving them a first impression yeah they're not bringing anybody else with them they're not you know you're not when you meet one person you're not meeting one person you're meeting everybody they're going to leave there and go talk to if they have a great time or you're meeting everybody they're going to go talk to if they have a bad time and you need to remember that so speaking about that then do you if you get a couple along that maybe just isn't vibing with people or is perhaps representing things that you think is not where you'd like to sit do you vet these people out because you're worried about maybe them casting i guess their their issues or concerns or the way that they approach things onto new people like would you vet those people actively and say they're not a part of our group anymore because you're worried about you know people interacting with them and getting the wrong impression there's only ever been one couple that i have told like you can't come to any of our stuff and they kept signing up to our stuff and i kept kicking the hell off and telling them again and again you cannot come to our stuff i do not want you there you're not good people everybody else one couple in nine years well I'm going to show you up to and try to do whatever the hell they're doing, they get shot down real quick like, yeah, no.
So no, in a sense, no, we don't tell people outside of that one couple. We don't tell people you can't come to our stuff. And we don't tell people they can't do anything. And we don't say don't ever go to anything else, you know, because you're not the kind of people that need to be in the lifestyle. That's for them to figure out. There has been newbies where I've had to take them aside like, listen, don't do that. It's not the right approach. Actually, the last Mingler we just had at Rick's, I had one girl. She really wasn't with our group.
She was a stripper who came in to do something else and saw swingers, and she was like, holy shit.
So she grabbing girls butts and i was like hey what are you doing stop and i took her aside and talked to she was well i thought everybody was swingers i'm like we are well then why are they getting mad if i grabbed their ass i'm like going did you say hi to them no if you're at walmart do you want somebody to walk up and grab your ass no well then why do you think it's okay here but i'm a stripper you're not a stripper right now she's like oh yeah and i'm like going and the strippers don't do that she goes okay well how do we get into this i said how about walking up and saying hi for starters and then i was like find a girl you think is pretty well say hi talk to her ask her if you can touch your butt keep it a shot so she immediately turns around not knowing who angie is and goes hi and starts talking to angie then she's grabbing angie's butt i'm like going she's like it works yeah so yeah what is it eventually you're the people that follow you come to your meet greets your minglers your pub crawls or your clubs they they generally take the same vibe from the hosting couple if that makes sense the same thing for a house party if you want to go to a house party you look at the host the kind of people that you want to hang out with on a regular basis whether you play with them or not they're going to bring in those type of people so well and i think what's important to remember is when you know like as club owners or people that are doing the meet and greets you when you're running into these couples that are maybe messaging you beforehand or how nervous they are about coming, that's when you realize what's out there about our community is not all that great.
I mean, I know even for me, I was completely freaked out about going to the club because i had all of these images of what was going to happen because of how they stereotype what a swinger is it's it is it's like there's no boundaries and everybody's just piling on top of everybody and it's all about this end goal of sex and it's just sex which you know i guess for some people it can be that but for me what i'm finding in in the nine years that i've been involved in it the largest portion of people that are interested in doing this has much more to do with their relationship with their marriage with something that they're wanting to add to that than it is at all about sex sex almost gets to be like the bonus to this other thing that that gets to happen so when when we can create these atmospheres to kind of de-stigmatize what our community is by having these meet and greets by having you know the club where or open level we can talk to them about look you're not no no no you're not going to walk into the club and have some kind of initiation thing this isn't like a frat house or sorority i mean you're not going to have to do anything weird you know there's not some process you can just come in and you're going to find that these are just normal people but there's there's so much out there to try to delegitimize who we are.
And so I, for me, I feel like my job, if I had any kind of a job is to try to deescalate that and show people, no, let, you know, and maybe that's why I was just talking about it like this is what i do what i do is so great why would i want to keep that a secret yeah i mean that's a it's a really it's a good point you know that you are i guess fighting a bit of an uphill battle right actually on the drive over here there was a brand new article released today in in style and so what i have also noticed along with you know there is still stigma out there in mainstream media.
I mean, you know, especially we saw it around the world multiple times over the last 12 months. But what I've also noticed is that there are a lot more positive articles coming out in mainstream media. I mean, the fact that this article was written from a very balanced perspective in InStyle today, it talked about communication with your partner, how to strengthen your relationship.
It spoke about rules and boundaries, what to expect, and in a very healthy way from people that the author was interviewing, you know, sex educators and was spending a bit of time with people that live in the lifestyle and coming out in a very balanced and positive way. And I think that's been a huge shift that I've even seen over the last few years. You're right. It's a huge shift. The scientific studies that are coming out aren't even as stigmatized as they were, where they would lean the study one direction, even before they've started the study. So it is great to see the numbers.
That's what I find astounding, is we talk about your standard relationship model. But if you actually Thank you. the numbers.
That's what I find astounding, is, you know, we talk about, you know, your standard relationship model, but if you actually get underneath that bed sheet, and you start really asking people, you find out there's a massive percentage of the population that would actually kind of like to do this, but, you know, when you've got people that are going to not want to have anything to do do with you or say that they're not going to want to have anything to do with you if you do this you know you're going to be excommunicated from the community if you do this you know that's that's that can be a hard road for somebody to want to cross over or or you know you can still lose your job you still have these morality clauses that you have to sign which i which I think is so ludicrous.
If I could do anything, it would be to try to get that kind of idiot thing off of the table. You know, because the truth of it is, if you ask people, they're going to say, yeah, I've thought about that. I've thought about consensual non-monogity. I've thought about a threesome.
I about this i mean huge portions of the population my problem with the whole excommunicating people and things is the fact that they don't usually follow through with it i'm like you said you'd stop talking to me god dang it follow through with what you said you promised well and that's the you know that's the thing that's a that's a great point you know there's this threat there's this level of a threat to people. But the reality of it is, and that's the, you know, that's the thing. That's a great point. You know, there's this threat. There's this level of a threat to people.
But the reality of it is, is that's not always the case. I mean, it's, you know, you realize there's this level of expectation that society says that they have of us.
And it can be religion or society or government where it says, this is how, you know know this is the best mode of transportation for success for us as a community but that's not really true but they they want you to believe that that's true and they want you to believe that if you do anything that deviates from that it's going to cause mass chaos and you know cats and dogs are going to be hooking i mean you know they just they have this horrible they may they may you know so it's i guess it takes you know i think the more more scientific studies that come out the more we have people like jane angie that do the meet and greets the more you know club owners you know, the more we speak out, it's a lot like the LGBTQ community, which actually I, we're a part of that, you know, this pride in what we do, and, you know, to really say, no, this has been a massive effect on my relationship and my marriage and i love it and it's the best thing i've ever had the more we can get people to do that then you know it's going to be pretty hard to taunt somebody or to tell them what they're doing is wrong if they're like no problem is it's so much easier to hide what we're doing and well we've been taught our entire life to hide what we're doing whether we need to or not that's not what i'm getting i just meant it's so much easier the uh the lgbtq community when they they don't have a choice they they're this is them they want to date people they want to be able to be open they want to have the relationships that we can have as heterosexuals they won't be able to get bank loans and be taken seriously inside society i mean jesus yeah this is stuff that they were forced to do this and so happy well not happy that they were forced to do it and they had to do all this stuff but i'm happy that it succeeded and it could do the same for us just it's way easier for us not to be stepped forward and not to take the chance because for some of us it doesn't take away from our normal the reward is yeah well and we're also told we're also led to believe that this is an activity that we've chosen.
Do you have your hand raised? Are you wanting to say something? You better jump in, buddy. I'm telling you. A couple of things. First of all. So anyway, about the squirrels. Oh, John's pouting.
You know, Kate, you mentioned that people in thebt community would like to be able to get loans well people in in our lifestyle and consensual non-monogamy would like to be able to as well and recently canceled one of my bank accounts because it's a club that caters to people in consensual non-monogamous relationships and i found out just very last minute it's it's it makes me so emotional because i feel you just see how much people don't understand and how they they it's almost like they hate us or something like that it's so discriminatory and and bigoted and uh you know i tried to talk to them about that we can't discuss it with just done.
It's over. We're closing the account. And I had a couple of days to find another account to keep our place open so people like us could come there and socialize. It's just a crock of shit. And it just pisses me off so bad to no end. And it's not the first time it's happened. It happened years ago with a number of my clubs. And I really thought we were that, but we're not. And it just, we still have to keep pushing forward and fighting that.
Well, so I really want to talk to you specifically, John, about things that have changed in your club, but I love the thread that we're talking about because Stripe actually canceled my main payment processor. They canceled my account and held my funds in there for 30 days with zero warning. They quoted that I was breaking their terms of service and terms of conditions, and I wasn't. They classified me as pornography, and it was specifically about my event site. Now, my event site, nowhere on my site does it mention sex, pornography. It does not have any lewd images.
I mean, my main image is an astro girl.
There was no pornography on my site at all, so i did submit an appeal and they came back and uh they just basically said sorry you're breaking term five which was pornography and they just wouldn't even show me where and so they they canceled my account they hold my funds and since then i've been fighting an uphill battle just this morning on the way here i was finally approved with authorized.net to be able to process funds but even that i mean event bright have been holding my funds for 12 months just yesterday they agreed to to release my my funds and i'm talking about my whole hotel takeover funds wow that they've been holding um it is it is irritating and i mean even getting lawyers to work with us last year when we canceled our event was ridiculous and i paid three times what you would pay any lawyer because we were high risk and that's just the reality so like after my long rant my question to you is yes there's morality clauses and not everybody can can do this but what do you think that we should do or could do a responsibility to have to be in the public eye like Open Love 101 representing hey we're not some trolls under a bridge here we're not you know dregs of society we're legitimate businesses we're legitimate people what responsibility do we have to maybe be out on social media presenting and like jan angie and stuff like that you know i think it's really tough for some people because they could lose their job and uh church is important to a lot of people and they could get kicked out of their church.
But I think the gay community went through the same process at some time and it just takes people like us that are out doing this and being out to help lead the way. And eventually more and more people will join us. And Jackie and I meet all the time, couples that aren't, they don't have the fear that some couples have. And so we can do things with them out. And it's just a slow process. I don't think there's anything we can do to hurry it up. We just have to keep doing what we're doing.
I'm also in some pretty major court battles over taxing us here in Texas as a sexually oriented business by a definition which we don't meet. And so we now have a case in the district court and the state appealed it. So now we're in the appellate court. And then so much time went by after they did this, air quotes, audit on me by putting someone in the parking lot and counting people coming in and then taking that for the period of time I've been open, not taking into consideration that when we first opened, maybe only a handful of people came in and they send me a bill for a million dollars.
And so now we have to either pay it or appeal that. And so we had to go to, you know, ask for a redetermination hearing. It's really, it's, I don't know.
It's just insane just insane how they can they just they won't even sit down and talk to us about what we are and and what we're trying to do and how it's more than just it's not it's it's about relationships of people it's a community it really is and so i get what you're saying and they probably sat in the parking lot on a saturday night at 10 30 11 p.m when there was an amazing party happening that was something hosted you know what i mean it's not like they're sitting there on a tuesday or wednesday or thursday right no yeah so you know we're doing all these things you know fighting it from all angles and now you know i'm i'm sending letters to to bank officers i'm you know we're in the court system uh i've got lobbyists working our case and then you know just helping people that are curious about the lifestyle because they have this desire to open up their marriage and so helping them and i i think that's that's the number one way the more people that we can help learn how to have this kind of relationship and to to do it without shame without feeling shame that that's going to be the key and i think so the more that come into our group and our in our community grows the better chance we have of making headway in the future because there'll be more and more of those people that are willing to be out and you know and it's so astounding to me so here's this relationship model you know a way that people are able to work together with their partner to build a really strong relationship and what's really sad to me is how many people in society that don't want that to work yeah i mean it's like no you can't we don't want to see you guys succeed i mean it's it's bizarre it's like why aren't we like doing this applauding thing like I'm so proud of any couple that is really intentful and consciously working together to build the relationship that they want then they have all these people on the in the arena on the sidelines going no no you have to do it this way yeah but I don't want to do it that way well and they don't want to do it that way so who's gonna tell them to do it well and that's the other thing too you need to come over here and be miserable with the rest of us what the hell do you think you're doing I'll see you next time.
way well and they don't want to do it that way so who's gonna tell them to do it well and that's the other thing too you need to come over here and be miserable with the rest of us what the hell do you think you're doing no i i do i do agree that we we as a as a promoters of either a meet and greet pub crawl or uh club owners or even podcasters we have to we have to be good and better at bringing out the positivity but also keeping it a little bit real so yes sometimes it doesn't work out the way everybody thinks it does and there are some people who do have a negative experience but if we're out there I think the way for us to do it is to make sure that like I make him dress up for our meet and grades it's it's positive experience that they they get somebody good to talk to up front and have somebody that they can talk to at a later time, an email or all these questions, be able to answer them in a positive way.
A thing everybody can do is if you're not going to lose your livelihood, it's not going to affect you financially or anything like that, if the only thing you're worried about coming out is your family's going to reject you or anything like that come out your family needs to know that you are one of us that'll help them accept other people like us doing what we're doing and everybody does that just it and honestly if you have children and you're worried about your children rejecting you you raise those. You raise them to not like the person that you are. That's fucked up. That's a great point.
You know, just last night when we were at the club, I had a lady come up to me. And at first it kind of took me back because she was saying, I really loved the seminar that you gave. And I'm thinking, I haven't given a seminar in a while, especially with COVID and everything. I'm like, what are you talking about? Well, she was talking about when the last time we had spoken at Naughty and Nolens in New Orleans, like whenever that was, where I was talking about not being afraid to be who you are and to be that out loud.
And that your kids are, you've got to trust that your kids are going to understand and if they don't I mean you still have to be strong enough with the choices that you're making to to stand if they don't understand they're the ones that really need to hear it and so she was like I just have to tell you I was like so nervous to tell my daughter because and it's gonna make me cry she goes I was so nervous to tell her because I thought she was not gonna approve but as soon as the mom said this is who i am the daughter was like oh my god because the daughter had been going through a bunch of stuff exactly and needed somebody to talk to it's like jesus i said this is what is so sad is that we have created a society that makes it hard to be honest i mean what the fuck is wrong with us i think i think i actually know who that was actually i'm pretty sure that was tammy um yeah because i actually that was their first event and the meet and greet last night was their second event and they're very shy they're very nervous when they came in i said here's your task tonight i want you to talk to two people I know that's like because they're a bit introverted and then I saw them down playing pool so I went and stood with them um and that's when I sent her over to you and I knew after she got out of that seminar she texted me and she spoke about that's why I know exactly what it is she spoke about what you spoke about and then I think a couple of weeks later she texted me again and she's like I'm on my way to see my daughter we're going for lunch or whatever she was doing she's texting me and then she texted me directly after and she's like holy shit this just happened and it's been amazing even just experiencing them and actually last night they had such a welcoming time they're actually coming back tonight to go to Colette nice that's great and so this will be there again their first big club environment and it just goes to show you that from that person who bravely came to a seminar where you probably were just talking from your heart didn't really understand the impact you had to that progression and that's just on one person one couple one family yeah the daughter now you know that it is a domino effect it is feels that she can now explore maybe her own sexuality you know it's crazy well you've met our kids several times at this point kate and i met your grandbabies like i'm i'm in deep i'm in deep with the jay and angie family so i mean the idea of our kids rejecting anything we talked to them about is just ludicrous but angie was still shaking visibly when she was telling our daughter that we're you know in the we have sex with other people.
And she was telling her this because her friend was asking questions, and her friend obviously needed some guidance. She was in from college, which is, I'm like, we can't talk to her about what she needs until we tell our daughter about how we know and why we can help her.
Because she was going through a whole thing about her sexuality and her dad worried that she was worried about her father not accepting her being gay and she wanted to talk to us and for some reason she was there for six weeks and she figured out really quick that i can talk to these people about crap so there was other stuff we wanted to say and be completely honest with her so we could help her we needed to tell kelsey first but angie knowing our kids still visibly shaking what she was telling her and our daughter's only thing was you guys are still okay right yeah all right have fun that was it and then now our daughter sends so many different people to us to our email or whatever like my mom and dad can help with that they're like what they can't trust me they can't and then i send them on to your guys's side or somebody else's bdsm whatever the hell to help them but just telling our daughter has been a huge spokesman for the lifestyle because she says we're all at the bat i think i want monogamy i'm not into this but but i understand yeah yeah she's yeah she's one of those she She's like, I think I could only be with one person.
And I said, that is perfectly acceptable. We're not telling you this is what you have to do. We're telling you who we are. We're showing you the options and the multiple pathways. Yes, yes. And you get to walk your own path with the full knowledge that you could have turned right. Not that you had to keep going straight. Right. I think that's the big difference here. Yeah.
And yeah um and the other thing too actually you just touched on um jay was you give the person other resources and i think that's a really powerful thing too the fact that there is now so so many more people that are publishing information about the lifestyle and positivity about relationships it's so easy now for me i get an email and someone says hey i am religious and i'm not and i instantly go here's five podcasts that have specifically spoken about religion here's three blogs go and consume those or someone will say hey we're really into kink and uh you know dom sub relationships and i'll be like go over here you know it's it's great it makes it a hell of a lot easier for me so i can just kind of say here go here so i think that's one of the things as well that we get to do that you know now also you're not giving advice Thank you.
It's great. It makes it a hell of a lot easier for me. So I can just kind of say, here, go here, here, and here. So I think that's one of the things as well that we get to do that now. I think also you're not giving advice, guessing advice. You're not guessing on something. So you know these podcasters, bloggers, you know their relationships, you know they kind of specialize in them. So that's just easier for you. Or even events now. You know, there's events as well that really specialize in different things. All right, let's, let's kind of go backwards.
And John, the club environment in particular, what shift have you seen in the people that are coming into the club and the way that they're approaching things or their expectations on the club or, you know, are they asking the same questions? What's happening there? Yeah. So I think the questions are probably the same. When we first started opening clubs in the, in the late nineties, well back then, I mean, our main way to reach people to get them to clubs was this little magazine called swingers.
And you put these it was it was in the uh in the adult bookstores and things like that yeah did you and playboy forums they would used to advertise in those right i just love it they're like what should we call our thing well swingers we'll call a captain obvious yeah low-hanging fruit we had a little ad in there and then i remember the first time i found an aol chat room i could make my own aol chat room and how we started reaching people that way it was like i i got to my couple i'm like look at this you can talk to people on the computer it was just it blew my mind and and that's where we really saw a change in attracting people that weren't picking up a magazine in a porn shop we were reaching more of people that were just regular people that had a curiosity but they didn't they didn't know where they could could learn more about it or experiment with it and so that's where we saw the big change today i think the people are the same and the questions are the same we're seeing more and more younger people that are coming in i think maybe partly because the way we market and you're seeing a lot of promoters marketing in a similar way maybe they're they're putting together an event that's that's based on music but it's really a sexy atmosphere you know a topless pool party or something like that, which I've done as well over the years.
Had, you know, pool parties where they were clothing optional and it was music-based. The DJs were incredible. And there's a certain segment of people in the lifestyle, just like with people in just mainstream, that like house music. So you can bring in new people that way, and they can be exposed to the people that are more open-minded, and then they can make a decision on their own, just like your kids' friends that can decide, well, I can go this way or I can go this way. And it's just really a great way to expose them to the lifestyle. Our clubs do the same thing today.
We really try and reach a wider group of people. When you first come into the clubs, it's very welcoming.
it feels like you're just going to a regular nightclub and some people last night at the at the meet and greet were saying the same thing like you know we're over here at this at this bar but we can't wait to see what it's like next door where the swingers are i'm like are you kidding me everybody in here is a swinger they're like what i'm like yeah it's the same thing yeah the same thing the only difference is you have a playroom essentially that's it that's the only difference well and i see it seems like for me and i you know i haven't been in this as long as you have john but it seems like to me i'm meeting a lot of couples that are coming into the club that are kind of fit in that empty nesters category you know they've been married for a decade or two you know like they it's been the two of them for for a long haul and now all of a sudden somebody one of them brought it up and they're like heck yes well they probably let's give it a try the kids have moved out and now they got to figure out what the hell to do with themselves they're ready to kind of focus on themselves and so it's interesting that that focus on themselves brings them to a place where they really get to to do that it is funny because i used to think that the the age and the lifestyle was a bell curve right so obviously younger people here and then older people there so less and then the bulk was maybe those empty nesters that are now just starting to go let's explore what i'm, is more younger people and then, honestly, a lull around the early 30s area where they might be then starting a new family.
So I'm seeing this spike up here and then back down and then back up again. So I think that's interesting. When I see people that are coming into the lifestyle that are like 31, 32, I think they probably are going to start having a harder time finding people of that same age group as opposed to maybe younger or older. It's difficult to be in the lifestyle when you have kids at home. I mean, first of all, you're probably not going to play in your house, so you're going to have to go out. So it means getting a babysitter.
And I talked to a couple last night, and it's their first time out since 2019. And they're definitely in the lifestyle, but they have all this kid stuff going on. They haven't been able get i think they have six kids so when you have that many kids it makes it really difficult to get out and to be yourself so they have to find other ways to do that but uh i definitely see it happen a lot where the the family the parents that are in the lifestyle that have younger kids they really don't play as often and once they're gone, though, absolutely, they're out there every weekend at that point.
I had given a friend of mine years ago some advice that she, her and her husband, they had kids young, vanilla friends, and I said, well, once your kids grow up and move out, what are you two going to do? She goes, I don't know.
I said, well, you need to make sure you're still a couple and not just parents because people get lost in they get they become parents and they they lose that we're still a couple we're still married you know we're still somebody together not just parents and um she had to figure that out and she's like we've done we're doing things now that they've been empty nesters almost two years i think and she goes we do everything together it everything together. It's like dating all over again. And I'm like, that's just a vanilla person.
So I can't imagine that if them or anybody like them find themselves dating again as an older couple, an empty nester, I'm hoping that they go and find something awesome like the lifestyle. If not, they're adding whatever value they can to their relationship. And that makes me happy because now they, they are still a couple. They're not going to divorce. You know what I'm saying? So I just don't want to, I don't like to see people divorce because I don't feel like, I feel like if you can work it out and it's supposed to be, and it can be worked out, then that's great.
But don't just be parents, you know, be a couple. Yeah, I agree. Hey, let's, let's maybe change it a little bit and let's talk about the future because I like predictions. So I'll start with you, John. Let's talk about the prediction for the club.
So I think what I've seen, please weigh in on this, is within the club environment it has changed from just a place to go on a Friday night or a Saturday night to find someone to hook up with to being much more broader of a community you know there's things coming in now like you said different kinds of events at the club different seminars even or you know meet and greet beforehand go to the club after but what do you think you're going to see in 2022 2023 or how are you adapting I guess to these new people that are coming in are you thinking of any changes are you going to start i don't know bringing in some sort of social media wall into the club it's a big swiping machine in the club you have to check in with your face and swipe on the actual board that'd be kind of cool that would be kind of cool you'd have like a big wall of who all's there yeah i think uh the clubs are.
Our numbers are growing in all the clubs, especially the newer ones. It really takes a long time to build a good base because it's a private club. So to build that base of members, you have a number of people that have families, so they can only come out once every couple of months. And so you have to have a lot of those people to make your clubs busy. So we're really beginning to see the growth. The clubs, we're looking at expanding into some other markets. So I see some expansion on the horizon.
Our membership system, I've looked for ways over the years to make it easier to get in a palm print or something like that. And we're still looking at those types of things to make it easier as a member to get in the club without having to go through the line where you can just walk up and it will charge your credit card automatically. You know, when we first opened, hardly anybody used credit cards. It was mostly cash. Today, hardly anybody uses cash. So it would make it easier to implement those types of systems. We do have social media walls now.
I'm really seeing more and more people not being afraid of getting their picture taken in front of a step and repeat that says Colette and Open Love 101. And they're posting it on Facebook. Now, a lot of them are in private groups, but still more and more people are posting them on Instagram and Facebook in the public. So that's happening. And I think that's really going to help the growth and encourage people to come out, which is what we're really looking for overall, you know, more events, maybe more nights at some point.
But, you know, right now, I'm really satisfied with the steady growth that we're having and the interaction we're having. Every time Jackie and I are at the club, people will come up and say, we're here because of Open Love 101 or some other site that is educational about consensual non-monogamy. And they decided to come try our club first to see what it was like. And they just love it. It's just so encouraging when you see people that are coming into it for the very first time and seeing how they react to it and then seeing them come back. What about you, Jay?
you think's going to happen to the lifestyle or events or anything what's your future predictions my future prediction is that i'm going to grab my phone whenever i find it figure out what app jackie's on see if i can get her to swipe for me i can uh that's gonna we can match that's a very soon prediction very soon i don't think you're gonna get a super like though i'm just like you know in the future i think more and more just younger people are going to be coming when i say younger the 21 year olds they're going to keep moving up and it's gonna because they're starting to find it and enjoy the lifestyle and the fact that hey wait i don't have to get on an app i don't have to go out and date one person and see if we click i can come here meet a bunch of people see if i click with some of them because that's what our one friend she was like wait how did how did kate get a date she's only been here so i don't like going i like you were you were where she met the person she's like what yeah you were bartending but you were there she goes oh yeah oh yeah i was like and she goes like yeah it's sex's sex because she knew that when they met, they knew what they were getting into.
She's like, well, that's kind of interesting. But she's still like going, yeah, lifestyle, no, nope, nope, bad, nope. It's not bad, it's not for her. Yeah, but she thinks the term is bad.
I'm like going, when you go out on Tinder and just hook up with some guy, guy same goddamn thing only i think probably we are more safe that's my personal opinion on that one but okay angie future predictions yeah what are your thoughts um i i over the course of i don't know maybe two or three years maybe three or four years we've seen more meet and greets um and we've seen more steady meet and greets, like Wednesday night minglers or Friday. Almost every Friday in DFW, you can find a meet and greet that's on a pretty large scale. And then the clubs.
So I think an increase in maybe meet and greets and stuff like that will help. More and more people hosting. More and more people, and more positive people hosting um and bringing in and having a good giving more network for for people out there they may want to be in it so i think that that's going to be a bigger network at some point an increase in numbers yeah i agree i mean i think the trend is just going to keep going up, upward, because the face of swinging, I think, has changed.
You know, it's not going to be, people still, yes, are going to associate swinging with that 1970s fishbowl shirt unbuttoned to the navel with the gold chains and the you know the hairy chest and you know the the women being swapped yeah i know i have i have a visual going on in my head yeah i'm just wondering what porn she's been watching in the last 20 or hours yeah you know so i mean i think there's that I mean I live I live with that image what am I talking about um so I you know I think it's going to move away a little bit more from just that kind of hedonistic mentality and be viewed as something tangible real serious viable you know these are going to all be elements that you're going to want to have within your relationship whether just for yourself or you know with your partner to really expand who you are I think it's going to be seen as a much more natural natural way of life I think as the as more scientific studies come out and are more prevalent in talking about how um sexual monogamy is not something really that is something that humans embrace from a natural standpoint um so we'll have you will have we'll have some scientific backing which i think will uh not that all scientific backing is going to legitimize what we do, but I think it's going to move it away from it being an activity that we do to something more innate.
Like, of course we're doing this. This is, I can't help but do this.
This is how I'm designed designed of course i'm going to be attracted or interested or curious about community i mean that's who we are as as a species we're a very communal species for us to then restrict that communal side of us only in certain settings doesn't make any sense so i think that trend will keep going up so more like a natural progression of evolution for the humans i yes i think we'll we'll actually evolve backwards to where where we were instead of all this bull crap that we've been trying to cram down people's throats and in who we are right well it's actually so jay and angie are coming to germany later this year and so they're going to be coming to visit us in europe in september and we're excited and I said to them hey do you guys want to go to a BDSM club and they were like well it's not really a thing and I was like but in Europe it's just so embraced that in in the main city or in Munich in directly in the city there's five different BDSM clubs they open at noon they're fully signed because it is much more accepted as it's not a taboo thing It's not necessarily oh you go and do that on the thursday night like oh you know you freaky person it's just accepted as that's the relationship and the way that you choose to live your life and so hopefully that's that's where we can kind of end up my prediction is kind of similar what you were talking about before john in that events are evolving to less of a come to a swingers event, swingers party, and moreover to come and enjoy a more open, free, your decision, your choice based around your other hobbies like music, even motorcycle groups.
We're seeing a lot of that stuff, like just different things where hobbies- Like Burning for example exactly so hobbies that people have and then they just say okay well you can come and you can be a monogamous person but you enjoy that hobby and you just enjoy being around other people and some people then will be non-monogamous and I think that's what we're going to start seeing more events centered around that it's not necessarily come and fuck it's going to be come and meet some people and if that's the way you're inclined go for it if you just want to come and dance go for that too you know but being around people that are more freeing and you know including the lgbtqi community as well into that um we just went to a drag brunch recently and while i was there i was like my next event i want to get a drag brunch at because it's just so much fun and again again, I think you can get all people from the community coming and then maybe 10% just happen to go and have sex after, but it's a choice, not the key ingredient, I guess.
So that's what I think. Well, guys, shall we wrap it up?
So John and Jackie, I'll let you guys tell them again where you're from but where they can find you, anything you want to share that you've got up sure if you're if you're curious about the lifestyle or are struggling with your relationship or just uh you don't want to hear our story open level 101.com is the place to go uh if you want to check out our clubs they're throughout texas dallas houston austin and in new orleans uh collect clubs.com to check those out we also have a dating app called neon dating you can search on your apple or your android for neon dating app and pull that up it's uh it's working great but it's a work in progress we're making some major improvements on it in the next couple of months and it's also a great place for jay to sign up if he wants to find jackie I just pointed that at him, like, that's what it is.
Or any of you out there as well jay over to you or angie either one uh you can find us average swingers.com or just google average swingers we pop up yeah right off the bat average swingers on all the all the sites and you guys pop up even not under average swingers somebody stole your identity again the other day right yeah they stole you but you are you were in some we're on some x what is the zone swing zone swing zone in indiana some site called swing zone there's a that's not us if you see the picture so you were that you were that attractive that people are like i'm gonna steal this couple's photo i enjoyed the fact that the other people they cut out of the photo were four people from the Playboy Swing Show.
Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, because I sent the picture to them. I was like, look who they cut out, fucker. That's right. You see where you rank. It's been great, and thank you so much, guys. I guess let's circle back in a year or two and figure out if our predictions were appropriate or hopefully, Jackie, we can see some progression and hopefully, John, we can all get bank accounts and lawyers and just run businesses and live our lives. That'd be a beautiful thing. Thank you, Kate. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, guys. Thanks for joining.
