Do you remember the feeling of a clique during high school? Have you encountered a clique at a swinging lifestyle event or party and it left you thinking the party was a flop? Are you curious about how to manage cliques in swinging?
In today’s episode we explore the reality of cliques in the swinging lifestyle and breakdown their existence, what responsibilities the party hosts have to break down the barriers and how you can circumvent them so your next swingers event isn’t a flop.
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Transcript
You're listening to Swinging Down Under, a podcast about the swinging, non-monogamous lifestyle from two crazy Australians with over four years of lifestyle antics to keep you entertained, informed, angry, happy, and horny. Join our international swinging adventures. G'day guys and welcome to another episode of Swinging Down Under. This episode today is all about clicks in the lifestyle. Now this episode was pre-recorded because we actually did this live as part of our Patreon membership. So thank you again for everybody who actually had the opportunity to join us live.
If you would like to join our Patreon membership, you can do that for $5 a month and our next live is actually going to include a little bit of fun so we have the game of lifestyle card deck and we're going to be playing that live on our next episode so do join us head over to patreon.com forward slash swinging down under and you can check it out now what are we talking about clicks today we are going to talk about whether or not they exist in the swinging lifestyle we're going to talk about what responsibilities the host may or may not have, also what the community may or may not have and how you out there can break down some of these barriers, whether they're perceived, whether they're real and try to then mingle a little bit better when you're at your next event and that can be a house party, that can be a swingers club, it can be even a full resort takeover.
So we're also going to share some of our stories with cliques over the past few years and how we've either managed to work around them or how maybe we've failed and we've walked away feeling a little bit shitty about ourselves so that's what we've got coming up in today's episode at the end of the episode you'll also hear some audio from our good friends bedhoppers podcast so mr and mrs h weigh in on what they think about clicks in the swinging lifestyle. We also have some listener audio as well from Mark Sexy and TB Texas. So hang in there, check those out.
But before we get into today's episode, I've got a few audio snippets. I've been harassing Daryl, as always, as I do. And I've been asking him some would-you-rather questions at the breakfast table, whilst we're out having dinner, everywhere around Singapore. So I'm going to play those first, and then we're going to get into today's episode all about clicks in the swinging lifestyle. And as always, guys, we really appreciate all of your feedback, your ratings, and your emails. So thank you so much for listening to Swinging Down Under. We really appreciate the hell out of you guys.
It makes us feel extraordinarily humbled when you download and listen to us ramble for one hour so cheers guys have a fantastic day babe i have a serious question for you yeah are you ready yeah you have to pick one shit okay so if you had to wear somebody else's used butt plug or somebody else's used condom which one would you pick condom you picked the used condom over the butt plug yeah i just did that's so weird why is that weird i would have thought like used butt plug every day of the week no because one's much more likely to have a disease than the other and one is much more highly transmissible of said disease than the other condom is a much better way to go for safety's sake interesting yeah what why that's all okay i feel like this is some sort of weird fucking kate random question thing that's going to happen every night or something for 30 days and then there's going to be some weird fucking podcast about it are you making wait did you just suggest that we have weird podcasts because i don't know if i appreciate that all of our podcasts are weird if you're involved they're weird okay i'll tell it as a compliment as it was intended to be correct daryl you can only have missionary position for the rest of your life but it's either me on my back or you on your back which do you prefer well one of those isn't missionary position so come back to me with a real question i'm still missionary no what no i suppose not really it's literally got a different title, I just call them both missionary.
But they're not. Well, fine. Would you rather I ride you or would you rather be a missionary? Better for you, motherfucker? Ride. Really? You lazy bitch. No, it's just a better view. How is it better? It's still the same body. Because I can look down and see my penis going in and out of you with nothing behind it. So it's a better view. Okay.
So if there was a sunset behind it, ideal sunrise i'm a bit more of a sunrise guy i think but i'll never get up early enough to ever witness one you you are an angry morning person no but i see them from the night before you see good morning good have you okay question you can only have anal sex for the rest of your life or you can only have blowjobs for the rest of your life which one do you pick anal sex anal sex yeah for the rest of your life yeah I've never really been that big on blowjobs okay and just like a like a lifetime supply of silicon lube well some sort of lube nice anal lube yeah definitely lube for the part two.
Morning. Morning. Yeah, so we're going to talk about clicks in the lifestyle. We're going to talk about whether they exist or not. And in previous episodes, if you guys have listened to us before, you may have heard me say that I don't believe clicks exist, and I'm going to expand on that a little bit today. And then we're going to talk about some barriers that they create, what responsibilities hosts have. And finally, we're going to talk about our personal journey and our experiences with clicks in the lifestyle. So let's kick it off.
Daryl, you've been on record a number of times saying that clicks do exist. Tell us a little bit about why you think they exist. Well, the main reason really is just to argue with you. No, that's not true. So the main reason is, well, I think it becomes obvious when you get into a large group situation, large party situation that people know each other, people have been around each other before, you know, they've hung out, they've possibly been intimate with each other. So with that in mind, they're just more relaxed with that group.
So you end up with a group that has had something in common previously. And to Thank you.
with each other so with that in mind they they're just more relaxed with that group so you end up with a group that has had something in common previously and and to me that defines a clique so a group of people who already know each other who already feel more comfortable with each other so that hence tend to gather together everything in life has cliques yeah and so this is why you know previously i've been on record saying that i don't think cliques exist you know cliques are are bullshit clicks are just it's something that's just made up and perhaps it is just something that we use as a term when we're unsure or perhaps a little bit shy or being an introvert and unable to break into things but you are correct daryl in their essence it is a group of people that know each other that's what a click is it's a group of people that have some knowledge of each other perhaps have met each other before have things in common that's what defines a click my issue here is that inherently the word click is used quite negatively so click in itself is actually just people who they're your crew they're your tribe they're your people you've met them before maybe you've had a great relationship with them or they've got things in common like that's what it is but it is used inherently negatively i think in a lifestyle and you know because and that's because when we say clicks we immediately think about like high school we think about people that are unkind they're acting you know negatively towards other people they want to label themselves a certain way and that's why i've always said clicks don't exist because i think that we use it as an inherently negative term and i have a big problem with that in its essence so well it is a negative term so you think they exist you think they are negative I didn't say they were negative I said it's a negative term it's a negative term yeah I don't think clicks definitely exist they're absolutely there I don't know I don't believe that they're all that they're generally in any way negative because every time we've ever tried to walk into a click we've been received with open arms yeah and and that's what i'm saying so when i've said before that they don't exist i'm now going to change that a little bit in the fact that i think they do exist but my issue has always not been with the existence of them or not it's been with the negative connotation that comes with it because that's my problem i don't i think that you can walk up to them and easily break into them and that's why I've always said they don't exist because it just bothers me that way.
So here I will say they do exist in terms of finding your tribe. Have you backflipped? Not in the negative way. Are you now one of those people who's backflipping? Yeah, yeah, I am. Wow.
But not in the negative way that people kind of say they're clicky or that event is clicky or don't even try to talk to those people because you know i'm just impressed that you came to my side i would have thought that you'd go to your grave without actually agreeing with me my suicide note's going to be like actually i changed my mind exactly that's what i and um suicide note let's not do that okay all right fine yeah so yeah yeah, so that's one of the things that we wanted to kind of set the scene with today is the fact that, you know, for many, many years I've been definite – definitely they don't exist.
I'm here to say they do. You've been a clickhead. I have been a clickhead. But they don't exist because, look, we've got friends. I love that little slow chuckle that you had there. That was – Thank you. It was quite cute. I did that for you, babe. No, you didn't. You did it as a natural response to a funny thing. Okay. You just don't like the fact that I said the funny thing. You click it. So here's my question, though.
In terms of the barriers that clicks could create, do you think this has to do with being an introvert or an extrovert at a party, at a club, at and seeing that and trying to find some sort of like strategy to to be able to behave in those environments like for example introverts might look at a group of people that they perceive to be a clique because they're talking to each other and just shy away and go oh that's that's really hard for me to break into so i'm i'm not going to do that and do you think that extroverts in those cliques then that might be a really thriving environment for them like what's your opinion on that I don't know that it matters for either if I'm honest as a as an introvert the ability to walk up to it to me it doesn't change whether they're all talking to each other or not and as an extrovert I'm guessing as somebody who would who would wish to be center of attention walking up to a group of people and introducing yourself might be actually something that would be a good thing.
You're saying you don't really think it has any barriers at all? No, I think there's barriers there, but I don't think it has anything to do with being an introvert or an extrovert. I think it has to do with the social programming that we all have not to open up a group of people who are already talking to each other.
Okay's pause for that social programming because shane and erin just said we've all been wounded from high school and so what you're about to talk about yes so what you're about to talk about is social programming in the sense that your parents when you're growing up don't interrupt people is that what you're about to say in that regard well no yeah i mean it's standard human human conversational etiquette that you don't, especially somebody you don't know, you would never interrupt somebody you don't know. So that becomes part of this issue. Okay.
Is that by walking into what you perceive as a clique, you immediately interrupt somebody. Yep, okay. Or you have the perception that you will do that. So I think that's the biggest issue. I don't think it matters whether you're an introvert or an extrovert. I think it matters that there's people with their backs to you and humans are programmed by, again, what happens in high school or all the way through school. From that, what they perceive will be the outcome.
And the outcome from high school is very different to what the outcome should be from your average group of adults oh and that's exactly that was what i was going to break into a little bit so shane shane and erin are agreeing with you they're saying that they they also find it to be quite rude if you break into a conversation and and that's why later uh i'm going to mention some ways to kind of get around this because there are ways i do i've babe i have all when have you used't use them. I'm actually just curious. Yeah, that's what I'm about to say.
I don't use them because I don't want to – Because no, because then I'd be so powerful in the universe if I used all of my ways, my wily ways, that, you know, just it would be horrible. I smell bullshit. You smell bullshit. Early morning bullshit is the worst type of bullshit, by the way. 8 a.m. bullshit is the worst. So you're talking about social programming. This coffee supply, it is below par.
It i don't want to tell you the sweetest shit coffee okay i mean you could have nipped down to the breakfast buffet to get us a decent coffee the thought across my mind but then i was like he's not worth it kate move on um what okay one of the other things about barriers and clicks so you're saying it's social programming, it's about growing up and some of those not wanting to break in, but one of the other things, and I know Shane and Erin just commented on this as well, is that breaking into cliques and the fear of being rejected.
And I think that's one of the things that we need to take into consideration here because you might not be worried about that because your experience has been quite positive. No, I'm still worried about that. Everybody's worried about rejection. It doesn't matter who you are. You'd be quite literally Jesus walking into a group Thank you. has been quite positive. No, I'm still worried about that. Everybody's worried about rejection. It doesn't matter who you are. You'd be quite literally Jesus walking into a group.
Well, if you're walking into a group of Satanists, then yeah, they're probably going to be like, no thanks, dude. Exactly. So you just can't win. You can't sit with us. Fear of rejection is a natural reaction or a natural emotion that happens in the lifestyle, but it's also... It just happens in life. It's got nothing to do with the lifestyle. But it's also going to happen. What, get rejected? Yes. Well, hang on. You just told me that you could take over the universe. You could never be rejected. Well, I couldn't be, but the average human... So, me?
Yeah, you, for example, many times over, probably could be rejected. I've never been rejected except all the time. Except all the time. It is a fear. It it's a it's a very rational rational fear because yes i mean walking into a group of people and actually this has happened to me this has happened to me in networking events this has happened to me in general day-to-day life where you walk in and i will try to enter into this perceived click and well actually it's more that you try to enter into the conversation and you... Have nothing to bring to the table. Exactly.
Or, worst case scenario, we say something stupid. Or, the best one that I've ever seen is where you just walk in laughing when everybody else is laughing and then they look at you like, why are you laughing? Exactly. Yeah. So, fear of rejection. So, we know how not to do this. We know how not to do it. Absolutely. So, don't do what we not do do. So what barriers do they create? I mean, in a nutshell, they can create people not feeling good at your party, good at your event.
They can make people walk away from your event feeling like they've wasted their time, that they're not going to come back. They've had a really negative response. And they're probably going to tell their friends about it as well. You know, other people in the lifestyle that, you know, don't go to that party.
party and this is where the negativity of the clicks actually happens and this is where it snowballs down because then those people will maybe go out and create their own little thing and therefore creating their own little click to get away from another perceived click or because people aren't breaking down these barriers or the hosts aren't doing a good job or whatever so i think that do you think the onus all sits with the hosts well my next thing is what responsibilities does the host have so am i pushing this podcast forward you're pushing it forward yeah yeah that's that's unusual for me because normally i'm dragging it sideways into something that you don't want to talk about so no i think there's there's a there's a ton of barriers um you can also end up by having clicks of the at an event or a club or whatever you can make people feel like utter shit as well.
And I don't think anybody really wants that. You don't really want to actively make somebody else feel bad about themselves. And so I think that's also a big problem and a big barrier that you can have by having a click there. But what responsibilities do the hosts have, Daryl? And let's run through because I think there's different levels of this at a house party, at a club environment, at another event that's being hosted. I think there's different responsibility levels of the host. Well, I think the host has a responsibility to provide an environment that's as open as possible.
So whatever that looks like and however they generate that, that may mean games or toys or interactive things that get people together.
sounds like we're planning for a three-year-old's birthday party um but actually it's not entirely dissimilar i mean we've used play-doh uh-huh and keys and locks you know like this is all very maybe we should start giving we give our gift bags we give our gift this is actually this is actually we're preparing for a three-year-old's birthday party no not three-year-old because they're too young they don't get gifts it's quite terrifying actually that the why it's terrifying to me is because it's it hasn't changed the same issues remain from when from that 10-year-old birthday party when there was a kid in the corner who wasn't willing to come over and have a conversation with the group that had formed around the lego trucks yeah true you know also erin thinks that people would probably go crazy for a bouncy house at a swingers lifestyle absolutely i mean i would go nuts for a bouncy house you would go nuts oh yeah absolutely you'd never get me out of the thing so so here's here's the thing about what responsibilities you said you know creating an environment right and i think for house party, there is more responsibility on a host at a house party to get that shit right than a larger event.
Or just throw a bouncy house in the corner and let people sort it out by themselves. Let people fight it over. Because of the fact that it is more of a small environment. And so I think, you know, you've curated that list at a small environment in a really enclosed circumstance being your house.
so i think the host's responsibility there is greater than a club owner's responsibility to provide a welcoming environment without clicks yes you agree with that i don't think yeah but i don't think i do agree with that but as we've just stated clicks are unchanging from youth so with that in mind it doesn't seem to matter to me what the host or attendees do. There's always going to be the perception of clerks. So you don't think this is something we can actually get rid of at all?
Well, I mean, let's, okay, let's break it down to the smallest environment where there's six people in a room, right? And two of those couples start talking more than the other one.
And they start to gather together a little closer than what the other one is immediately the other one's going to think that that's a click and they know each other and they've been you know they've been hanging out with each other before and that sort of thing well here's the thing though that's where it just becomes down to the fact that as adults you know this is what we're talking about is being the difference there is no as adults... Adults are just big children.
We should recognise that situation and go, oh, okay, they're just having a conversation and, like, obviously they're not intentionally being me. Yes, but unfortunately jealousy creeps in there as well because you're now talking about, well, why don't they like me? Which, again, is exactly the same emotion you feel when you're a 10-year-old kid at a party. Yeah. You're like, why don't they like me? I'm going to go sit in the corner until somebody likes me. Right, which doesn't actually work because then nobody likes you then after that. Exactly.
So now that I'm talking about it and rationalizing this out loud, I'm not sure there is a way that you can actually fix this because I'm starting to believe more and more that cliques are in the, not always, but certainly in the minds of the people that are outside of the clicks yes well of course they are because the people in the clicks are just like hey this is fantastic having a great time met some amazing people oh look those are the people that i've seen at desire last year that were here on the same month like hey guys so we're done so it's just like suck it up and get on with not being the outsider no no i think there are some things that we can do to break break it down a little bit.
So I'm going to go back to the club situation or an event host because it's different to the house party host. What responsibilities can they have? You know, you mentioned it before, Daryl. Can they play some games? Can they do some icebreakers? You know, I would love to see more swingers clubs opening or more events opening one hour before.
And it's actually something that I've been planning on for our next event here in singapore is having that one hour before where people can turn up that may be a little bit more introvert that may be a little bit more shy and that can be specifically like an icebreaker time and i think if a club did that you know if clubs are going to open at say 9 p.m i don't know what would be stopping them from opening at 8 p.m and having that as more of an ice staff, yes.
But, I mean, you could pay an extra $10 to come along to that or something like that where you could come along and there could be a more of a moderated, curated kind of mingle event just to help those maybe those shy people, those introverts or those new people almost actually form their own little clique because technically if then the people come in at like 8 a.m then or 8 p.m or 9 p.m or whatever it is then technically those people that already met earlier probably also forming their own little clique but i think that would be really helpful for the general public i just don't know whether it would help or not because you're like you just said you're just forming another clique so now if you've got somebody who doesn't come to that event maybe they're feeling a little bit new yeah Who's new.
Now they feel left out as well. Okay. So what's the solution? Nothing. I don't know that there is a solution. Give people some pitchforks and help make them just fight it out. Well, I mean, pitchfork's pretty old school. Yeah. I know. I was going old school. Most people wouldn't know how to wield a pitchfork, I wouldn't think. So what responsibilities do the hosts have? I think they do have responsibilities.
I think they've got responsibilities to either curate the list for a house party or i think that the club and events have responsibilities to be good stewards and create those mingle events create those opportunities for people to meet i think absolutely they should be yes absolutely but i still don't think that i don't believe that will remove the clicks doing all these things is is one thing but let's let's keep in mind now if you're feeling jaded and feel like the whole room is a click against you effectively, then even if you do these mingle events, the people who believe that they are on the outside of that click will sit in the corner.
Yeah, okay. So maybe then those things that I'm talking about can be great for the community, but they're going to be more centred towards people who perhaps are shy and introverts, not people who are jaded and angry that cliques exist. I mean, because maybe you're right. Maybe there is no helping those people. But what you can do is help the people that may accidentally fall into that category because they are unsure about how to go. They're feeling a little bit shy. Take Nordian New Orleans, for example, right? 3,600 people moving into New Orleans, that's hard.
You go there and you've got no idea what you're doing, who to see, what's happening. And I personally, I mean, we've been on record a number of times that we turned up there the first time going, shit, what do we do?
How do we break into this group of 3600 people and walk away from this with actual relationships formed and it is extraordinarily hard and i think that's why i'm saying the responsibility of the host to have mingle events i think is paramount because i think with those if they'd have created a mingle event on the first day on the first you know little area where you can go along and maybe they have some you know some some moderators in there are some people that have been previously you know use the community and their strengths to say hey i'm somebody who's been the last three years i'm going to come along and i'm going to actively walk around and pull those people out of the corner and try to be a good steward for the community and for the lifestyle i think that would be super helpful and i would love to see that if I'd go.
I would go as a new person. And then on my previous years, I'd probably go as just being helpful to other people as well. Your next years, you mean? Yeah. What did I say, previous years? Yeah, which is not like you can't go as a new person. Shit, I've outed my time machine yet again. God damn it. Okay, so we've spoken about the hosts. What about how we can, as in you and I, the people going to these events, just general people, how can we all work on that issue? What can we do to make that event better? Well, you can always go.
I mean, the only thing you can really do, to my mind, is actually see people who may be sitting alone or looking nervous or whatever and breaking out of the group that you're talking to and walking over to them and saying hello and introducing yourself and then saying, do you want to come over and meet some friends? Right. And so do you think that there is some responsibility on us, other people? Do you think there's a responsibility on that to actually do something about it or do you think to yourself, like, if those people are sitting in the corner, that's their own problem?
Like, where are you at with that? Depends on my mood.
Well, that's that's valid i mean i don't know why you give me that i'm in right now i'd say fuck them they can stay in the corner but no i think it does depend on whether you're because you can't always be although you always are that person you're always the person who's trying to bring people in hey how are you oh i'm okay and then what happens is then we spend the whole night wandering around talking to people on the outset outskirts and some of which i might add are not actually interested in being part of the group i was gonna say you do make that assumption that they want to actually be part of the group and then there's other people who just want to sit back and watch and see what's going on.
But you don't understand that. Like, for you, everybody has to be part of the group. So we spend all night wandering around talking to people who don't necessarily wish to be part of the group or part of the adventure or part of the play or part of anything. Yeah. So then we end up being the ones sitting in the corner watching everybody else play. Well... Because everybody else has spent this time... Done the legworks on the groundwork....actually getting to know each other. Whereas what we've done is spent the time gathering up Thank you.
in the corner watching everybody else play well because they've done everybody else has spent this time actually getting to know each other whereas what we've done is spent the time gathering up the sheep from the outskirts yeah and i will say that that's one of the things that you know i think it's nice to go around and do that but unfortunately it does it impacts then our our time at that event you know and so i think it's all very well and good to say yes we should try to help people you know, you know, as being good stewards of the lifestyle, but... I don't think it impacts your time.
I think you really enjoy that. It only impacts my time because I get to the point where I'm like, fucking hell, babe, we're here because we want to be involved with people that, you know, maybe we should actually... Not to work. I think that's the issue. It feels more like it's becoming work then, isn't it? As opposed to... Yes. We're actually here to have a good time. Yes, absolutely.
Well going back to the birthday party that's what that's the parents job to try and include get the kids included right it's not it's not the kids job so you're saying it is the host responsibility um yes yeah i didn't say it wasn't the host responsibility i just don't think that the hosts have an overarching capability to do that yeah responsibility yes capability not always the case well you can put everything out there and give the people the tools and techniques and everything but if they choose not to do them then there's there's shit all that you can do about that i mean to be honest yes so let's talk a little bit about some of the ways that i think that you if you're out there and you're listening to this and you have felt like there's been clicks before or you felt like you can't break into a circle things that you can do and then we're going to talk a little bit about some of the times when we have actually had been around clicks and we have had experiences with clicks and what happened during those circumstances my first one is is to go online and start making connections before the event or before the club or what before the big event if you can you know, it's actually find something like Desire, for example.
Find some sort of online forum or where people are located and then try to start making connections because, again, if we go back to our first visits to Desire, we didn't even know that that forum existed. And so I think if we'd have known, I probably would have been on that forum figuring out who's there at the same time, starting to make those connections well ahead of time, which would have actually helped us because we would have walked in going, oh, shit, you know, you guys are like Tim and Marie from Indiana.
So you mean all of this stuff, all of this stuff that you're talking about requires extra work, hence the problem. Hence the problem for Daryl without coffee. But I think for the average person. This is not about the average person. So this is about regular people going to events and wanting to be able to turn up potentially without spending 45,000 days online on a fucking chat group that most of the time people are saying things on there that boil my piss.
You know, like seriously, like it's not a a you're talking about things that in some cases may actually inadvertently form your own mental click so you're now turning up to an event already formed an opinion on a group of people that you want to hang out with yes absolutely which is actually now making a click of your own yes there are some there are definitely some flaws and some negativities to what i'm about to say because you are right. By doing that, you're then perhaps, you know, single.
You might have not spoken to anybody who's not on the forums like for us the first time and you've gone along and said, okay, I'm going to meet these people, those people, those people and then you've gone in with almost blinkers on then not wanting to meet Kate and Daryl from Australia because we didn't even know the fucking forums existed and so you're spending all your time with other people. I get it.
There are flaws to this, but if you are shy, if you're introverted, if you're worried about it, I think it is the way to do it, to go and do some prep work, to actually go on those relationships, I think. If you're worried about it, that's the way to do it. If you don't care and you just want to turn up to an event. So let's just pull this back into – I'm going to drag the podcast forward a little bit again and say, so when we've done that. Has it worked out for us? Yeah. No.
Not ever has that worked out because you actually form this idyllic opinion view on the people that you've been chatting with to the point where when you arrive, you don't want to shatter that by getting something no i think that's not why it hasn't worked for us i think it's just been more that there's been no like it needs to be it's almost like it needs to be curated and prep work done but a little bit loosey-goosey and what i mean by that is like don't set up a date with that other couple on the first night with just that couple fuck that because they're probably going to flake on you like something might actually happen so what i'm saying is instead get a whole group of people and be like hey guys we're going to go down to the bar at 6 p.m before the big event starts at 8 p.m if you all are there come on down and say hello like i think there's an element of here like don't put all your eggs in the one basket as well because people be flaky i think it's more that people are people are worried about breaking the perception that they've made of themselves.
One of the other things, and this is actually, we'll talk about this in our personal journey, but it's actually getting people away from that group, talking to them, forming a connection, and then going back to the group with them. That's a really good way. If you're worried about... You mean like attacking them at the bar, just pouncing on them as they're getting their mimosa. A hundred percent. They're getting a mimosa. You run over, I'll have a mimosa as well and let's be best friends. Well, they're... So let's use the sheep analogy. They're now away from the pack, right? So the flock.
They're away from the flock. There we go. Yes. They're away from the flock now. So they're vulnerable. They're weak. They're vulnerable and weak. So as a predatory lion? No, I'm a duck. You're a predatory duck. I'm a predatory duck. I'm a badass. I've got like a gold channing on Blingon. But seriously though, in all seriousness, like going and getting them when they're getting a drink, our thing at Desire was we caught them a couple when they were having their lunch break away from everybody else. And then later in the pool, we went and used that as an opportunity to be like, hello.
like hello that shit works it's a great way so if you haven't done that research up front and you're just in an event you're wondering how you can do that and you don't you know like you're like shane and erin and you do find that being walking up to a group can be rude to just try and break into it that's a perfect way to do that yeah but that takes a that takes a lot of courage to do that that's a big set of cojones i I remember when we were in Desire, that table that you're talking about, we sat there for 10 minutes first going, should we talk to them? Let's talk to them.
Let's talk to them. What if – let's talk to them. Do you want to – should we ask whether we could join tables? Like what's going on here? Let's talk to them. And then 10 minutes later, I just said, can just talk to them now but you're right it does take some some it does take some balls some labia but at the end of the day you know how many people you confuse yes it does take some courage but i think these are the things that i'm only talking about if you want to change this cycle if you go and you don't want to change the cycle then then don't.
Sit in the corner, drink your drinks and leave alone. Exactly. Let me just also mention, since we're talking about sit in the corner. So one of the things that you need to do is strategically not put yourself in the fucking corner. Yes. In fact, it's quite good to not sit down at all. Okay. Tell us more about that. So, yeah, sitting in the corner is a bad plan. It gives you a good view. Actually, it depends on what the corner looks like, but that's a whole different topic. But sitting in the corner is not a good plan. Sitting down in general actually could be perceived as a bad plan.
I would say the best option would be to actually find a high table that you can stand at. In the middle of the club? Near to the bar is actually my recommendation.
It doesn't have to be the middle, but sort of, yeah, somewhere near the – this is going to sound horrible in the middle of the in the middle of the bar is actually my recommendation it doesn't have to be the middle but sort of yeah somewhere near this is going to sound horrible the bar or the toilet so you can get them when they're away you see so no just so you can see you can also see the lambs as they wander off from the flock slash pack slash so yeah that's that's the way that i would roll yeah those are some great recommendations and also high traffic areas absolutely i would also like to say i really appreciate the use of collective nouns there daryl thank you for that be strategic don't place yourself in a corner and actually we do have some audio we're going to share on the recorded version of this later which is actually from bedhoppers who are known sit first thing they do is sit down and then later they do complain about clicks and not being able to meet people so they've done it they do it all the time they continue to do it even though they say every single time it's bad so we're going to hear from bedhoppers podcast a little bit later with some audio with them talking about yeah don't don't do don't do what they do do not do not do what they don't do all right so next thing it this might be obvious, but be friendly.
What? I don't want to do that. That sounds horrible. I'm serious. Like, be friendly because I think that... What if you don't like people? Again, I go back to the fact that at the end of the day, if you don't want to change what's happening, then don't listen to any of this. But if you want to, then these are just some of the ways.
Because if you come in and you're sitting, again, and you're sitting in a corner or you're looking around and maybe you are feeling a little bit nervous maybe you are feeling a little bit envious of the group over there that seems to be having a great time the first thing you're going to do is like get resting bitch face just generally and then again people aren't going to want to come up and talk to you kind of what you were saying before daryl was standing up around a table by being a little bit more open to inviting people in you know your body language is going to matter if you're standing there with a resting pitch face if you're standing there with shoulder your hand you know arms crossed across the front of your body people are not going to approach you like the kate and daryl are probably not going to come and say like hey do you want to talk to our group because you look like you're just having a bad time you look like a psychopath yeah so not a psychopath but you just don't look like you're actually wanting to be you know approached by anybody never stops you from approaching people you'll still go over to people who are actively trying to distance distance themselves from the group and be like hi and they'll look at you coldly with dead eyes do you know what i do then in that circumstance stay there for the next 45 minutes to try and convince them to come over tell a bad dad joke and then laugh a little bit to myself and then make it awkward as fuck yeah no actually that's generally how you roll yeah yeah that works a treat guess what my last piece of advice is what it's exactly what you said before is to mingle move around you know i think one of the ways so you agree with me yeah one of the things that i'll cut that out too it's fine i can edit that out one of the things that you and i tend to do and it's live baby we've got people i've got witnesses yeah i know uh hello everybody by the way we just had some more people dialed in so thank you for that so it is it is something that we do but sometimes i actually actively try to get us not to do this and that's we might split you and i might like go and like we'll go to the bar and then go get some drinks and then, you know, meet people and bring them back or I might go and talk to somebody else and we tend to do that where we're actively both, you know.
Yeah, but you kind of have to be, I mean, that's a confidence thing as well. Not everybody's okay to do that and I'm, let's be very honest, I'm pulling on a confidence blanket to be able to pull that off. That's not something that I'm comfortable with at all. Is it a snuggie or a blanket? I want to see a confidence snuggie. That's what I would like to see. They don't exist. It might sound obvious, like the be approachable, be friendly. I'm sure it will. But move around, you know, because if you get stuck, and it kind of goes back to what you were saying.
Unless, of course, you get stuck with somebody you actually wish to be stuck with.
Yeah, exactly exactly yeah but it goes back to what you were talking about before you know years and years ago we were at an event and there was this couple there and they weren't having a very good time and they were at the end of their tether with the lifestyle in general and i remember we were talking to them for about an hour and i think about half an hour and i was like okay it's time to move around because now it is impacting our event our time because you know you want to be helpful but at be helpful, but at the same time, you know, you don't want to get stuck.
You don't want to get stuck with a group of people as well. So, you know, I think... Well, no, you don't want to get stuck with a group of people that you don't wish to be stuck with. Right. Which is probably the main thing that was going on there. You will totally give up your evening for somebody else to have a nice evening. Yeah, right, exactly.
Which, because our events and stuff are few and far between that can actually be quite quite bad super shit is actually the words that i would use so let's uh let's talk about some of our experiences let's talk about our experience with clicks now because i really want to talk about some of the times when we've come up against them what we've done and how they've impacted us and maybe what we've felt and our first one if you've listened to the podcast before you've probably heard this but i'm going to recycle back through this and that's our first trip to desire in 2016 we mentioned it a few times before but we walked in we didn't know anyone we hadn't been on the forums didn't know they exist didn't know they existed and then saw this group of people that look like they were having a great time and they're one of those groups that go there every single year on the same week every single year with the same group with the same group of people which by the way is a little bit weird but whatever and we really wanted to talk to them but felt a little bit like how do we do that you know how they're all standing around how do we do that again they had their backs to us and etc so we just didn't have their backs to us they were they were in a group talking they were in groups talking to each other yeah see.
Physically, that's what I'm saying there. No, no, but there's a connotation that comes with people having their back to you, and that is the belief that they don't wish to talk to you. But in fact, as soon as we walked over there, what happened? They invited us, they opened their group. They immediately opened the group, took steps backward to allow us to be in as part of the group. Yeah, and that's why in the past I've always said cliques don't exist because in my head I'm like they don't exist because as soon as you walk over there, it opens up, right? That's been my experience.
But as I said before, cliques do exist. It's just a negative side of that that we put on it. So that was our experience and desire in 2016 was just one of actually positivity.
You know, we walked in there going we couldn't go in there met some people uh away when they're at lunch and then came back and had a great time with the group for the remaining days that we were at desire you know so if we'd have not done that if we did not taken those steps we would have walked away from desire going oh yeah there's this really clicky group there bastards wouldn't wouldn't talk to anybody else but their own friends yeah who by the way they've traveled hours and hours for they've waited a year for they spent all this money for and i don't know why i would you know who am i to go those bastards you know those clicky bastards they've just spent like five grand to come and hang out together yep really like who am i to tell them they shouldn't be doing that you know that's another thing as well so that was desire 2016 now i also want to mention and daryl you can take this one oh sydney last year sydney in 2019 we went to uh we went back to sydney back to the club and we hadn't been to the club in a very very long time we didn't know and also we hadn't been in a club environment in a long time so a bit rusty but we didn't know anyone yes and i can tell you there i really did feel on the outskirts i really didn't i didn't feel like we could break into any of the cliques and I know you walked away feeling same way tell me about that well no I don't think it was again I don't think it was a click I just think it was the the realization that we didn't know anyone there well we knew very few people there so it makes it especially in an event like that it was a kickoff event for a new club so we felt very distant and I think also as a factor to that.
we did feel distant because we hadn't lived in the country for four years at that point so i think that made that made things tougher as well because it's very difficult to to feel at home when it doesn't feel like home yeah whereas the the other club that we've been to so many times kind of has now a home like a you know what I mean like a homely feel we know where everything is we we knew who generally who the people are that are attending that sort of thing so if there was a click there again we were responsible for it because nobody there was nobody who ever didn't want to talk to us and the people we approached were happy to talk to us it was just that more that we felt uncomfortable we also felt uncomfortable because we were both carrying more weight than we would have liked to have because of you know Thank you.
we approached were happy to talk to us it was just that more that we felt uncomfortable we also felt uncomfortable because we were both carrying more weight than we would have liked to have because of you know the circumstances leading up to that event so I think there was a lot of things there that added up to us actually instilling our own click rather than and that's I fully believe that even whilst we were at the club and we actually discussed that while we're at the club because what did we do so that's that's what i was about to say so one of the things that i remember was that we we tried a few times to break into different things like when we were actively you know playing playing pool saying to people like hey can we also play because i think that's another way to really break into that if you're feeling a bit unsure of yourself but yes at the end of the night we went and sat on the couch because of the fact that it was hard.
You know, we'd tried a couple of times. It hadn't really gotten anywhere. I know we spoke to like four or five different groups of people and it just wasn't feeling like we were making any connection. Absolutely. But I think important to note there as well, given it was a new event at a new, a brand new club, that was the opening night.
I think there were also people in that group as well that were there to support the people who'd opened the club yeah who weren't necessarily lifestyles yeah true true enough so I think you've certainly added a whole nother level there because you're now effectively being seen as hitting on somebody who's not interested in being hit on that's true and and the last one that I wanted to share as well is that we were Desire in 2018.
So it's another Desire event and we've got hundreds of these actually that I could bring up, you know, not in New Orleans, at other events that we've been at, you know, different clubs, different events all around the world.
But Desire in 2018 as well, there were groups of people forming smaller groups because they had things in common and hanging out and I remember feeling like I tried to go and talk to them on a number of occasions I tried to go sit on the bed with them on a number of occasions and I just wasn't getting anywhere you know and it was hard when everybody else has started to hug up or like partner up and then you're feeling very very on the outside you know and I remember even going and sitting on their bed that they were all snuggled up and hugged up on and just like chatting.
And there was no offer or opportunity to like open up. They didn't move from where they were. They all sat or all laid together, still hugging and hadn't tried to include me. And I think that- Well, there's occasions when you don't want to include other people. Which is what I was going to say as well. So my, my personal feelings walking away from that was one of rejection, right? Because I was like, oh, I've come over here. I've really tried. I think I spent an hour trying. And then in the end, I was like, fuck it, you know?
And yeah, to your point, like, possible that they were just like, you know what? We don't want you here because we've found people that we're interested in. We don't want to open it up any further.
We wish to go and have sex with these two people, not necessarily a six- yeah or a five emotions behind that it was it was quite shit you know i felt terrible for the day you sat there for a fucking hour being rejected of course you felt shit yeah i mean seriously read the room you're fucking over there and they're like they don't change their posture and they don't open up the group and they're're quite obviously involved with each other and do not wish for you to be there. So go find somebody who does wish for you to be there. Yep, yep, 100%. It's not a click. It's just a choice.
They might think that you are fugly. Okay, they could. I doubt it, but they might. It's true. They might think I'm silly as well.
So that's been our examples.ane and aaron said that their experience has been that when you meet another couple they can be the ones that actually bring you into a group and make introductions for you to their friends you know and that's actually how groups are formed in their essence because you know what's that jerry seinfeld thing like you like ice cream i like ice cream let's be best friends you know it's the same thing so i mean it's gonna happen like if you go hold on a second you guys got like to go out hiking on the weekend but you also play board games holy shit I've got five other couple friends that I know that also like to do that like come and meet them and hang out and that's this is generally how these relationship groups form and I'm not going to call them clicks but you know it doesn't matter where you are in life you find people typically that have similar similar views to you similar life views similar expectations and and also in a similar stage of life now that doesn't come down to age that just means that they're at a similar stage of life to you you know they're potentially you know as an example potentially they have no children in the house now that may mean they're at the front end of the cycle.
Yep, true. Or they're at the back end of the cycle. True. But you might be looking for somebody who can have a spontaneous, let's catch up for drinks right now. And in a lot of cases, you know, people with kids aren't capable to do that.
So with that in mind, you know, that's how these groups form is that people find people who fit with their requirements to be friends and that's why i think we need to stop to kind of wrap this up that's why i think we need to stop with the negativity surrounding clicks i mean we've just gone through this we've spent time talking about this that the fact that they exist how to work around but at the end of the day a click is just a group of people who have some shared experiences and some things in common and i think we as a community need to stop stop with the negativity and stop bitching you know being angry about it because like that example there before that i gave but you're talking about something that has an emotional response because you you now feel rejected you just had an emotional response to that people because you're like fuck those guys right yeah yeah so that's and that would have tainted your next interaction with them as opposed to just going oh they don't like me like that's cool i'll go find and i'll go hang out with somebody who does it doesn't even mean that they don't like you it may just be that they were they were spent an hour trying to get rid of you because they're about to go off and shag for the four of them yeah you know and they have no issue with you at all.
It's just that the timing was off. But then you set that as an effective pretext before you go in to talk to them the next time, which is you saying, well, they're not interested in me. But that may not be the case at all. They may be very interested in you, but they may have had other interests that were a higher priority than you at that time.
So I think unless somebody obviously shows that they're uninterested or they obviously show that they're only interested in, and this is another thing to keep in mind, clicks are not clicks when somebody's made the decision that they're in a monogamous four-way relationship, for example. That's not a click. That's. Yeah. If you really want to get down to it, you and I hanging out at a bar, we're our own clique. Yeah. So I think then what you're trying to say to wrap it up then is stop making assumptions. Stop making assumptions about the circumstances. Yeah, just, yes.
I mean, get involved if there's an obvious disinterest from the other parties.
And it has to be obvious, then walk away go find somebody else i mean one of the joys of of any event is there'll be somebody there that likes you or somebody there that's interested in talking to you and it doesn't i'm not talking lifestyle events either i'm just talking any event yeah the idea that you can you can turn up and you'll find somebody that actually is willing to talk to you and again they don't even have to like you but willing to talk to you and involve you in a conversation and it may be actually a conversation from two opposite ends of the spectrum you know a debate almost yep but if they're willing to sit there and do that with you then there's a we're not we're not looking for for like here we're actually one of the things we're all looking for is respect it's all about respect and if you don't feel you're getting respect when you talk when you turn up to talk to somebody then walk away i like it so don't make assumptions put yourself out there if you want to make a change or not and if you don't and if you don't feel that it's a respectful situation then leave yep boom done all right everybody so thank you so much for joining us on the live podcast today we appreciate the hell out of you so thank So thank you, everyone, for joining us.
We really appreciate it. And we'll be back again. We've actually, our next one's going to be some game playing, actually, and we're going to have a bit of fun with that. So join us again for next time. But otherwise, hope you guys have a great day, morning, evening, noon, wherever you are in the world. Thank you so much. Thank you. Have a lovely period. Okay, bye.
all right so we're asked to talk about clicks in the lifestyle and our thoughts on that for a podcast oh my first impression of even hearing about clicks and lifestyle is that i think a lot of it is pretty fictional and in people's minds i think swingers tend to make assumptions about other people maybe more than any other group i know of and a lot of the assumptions sometimes are just wrong and maybe i don't know emotion plays into it or being i don't know i don't know what what it is but i i don't really think there are cliques i think they're groups of friends and sometimes people that don't even really know each other from the outside would look like a click to somebody else from the outside.
And I know like I can think of several examples of somebody feeling like they were left out and confiding in me. One, it was from a resort takeover a few years ago where a guy swam up to me because I had a tattooed arm.
And he said, I think people aren't talking to us because i have a tattoo or we're tattooed or something like that and so i watched them for like the next day and people weren't talking to them because they were off in the corner of the pool right not talking to anybody else i think a lot of it is more related to how introverted or extroverted you are and if you're more intro, you're less likely to put yourself into a large group situation in general. So that doesn't change because you're a swinger. It just doesn't.
So I think that people will put that feeling on the people that they see in a large group that they're a clique and I'm outside of it. And you were saying something before about not wanting to get locked into somebody or only wanting to target a few people of a group. And so you don't want to interact with the whole group. Right. Like maybe the person on the outside looking at the supposed clique is not interested in all the parties in the group. Yeah. So they only want to talk to two of them. Right. Or somehow separate them and not join in with. Yeah. I don't know. There's another situation.
Last year, we were at a meet and greet where a couple specifically changed the plans of their day to come out there and see us. And, you know, we wanted to meet them and everything. And we found out afterwards that they didn't want to interrupt us because we were talking to people.
This was in a state like we this was in a state that we don't even live in so we were talking to people and they said after that they thought that we were too busy or something and we're just like what you should have talked to us that's why you came there yeah we you know we weren't paying attention we were just like mixing and mixing it up and we didn't know anybody's either so right i'm a little bit of a social social butterfly so i think that i could probably be perceived as that like clicky or something because i i don't know that like everybody i bounce around a lot and go all over the place but yeah when we when we go to like a meet and greet and we know somebody's there we're gonna stick by them because chances are we haven't seen them in a while obviously if we know them we were interested in them right enough to choose them to get to know them so yeah i think it's hard to say that there would be clicks in the lifestyle because it's not anybody's like primary source of socialization for some people it is yeah but that's why they call it the lifestyle people all the time especially right now you know well right now is a little different story but yeah nobody's clicking anything anymore except for themselves they're clicking their hand on it clicking their hand on a lotion stop it bottom hey kate and gerald mr mark sexy here from the u.s hey about your uh topic of clicks well i'm sure some do exist i think for the most part we just think group of people naturally is a click and i've seen this when i've been to clubs and to an event in atlanta and it's where you approach a group and you're just sort of i'll call it afraid to to break into it.
And I think your brain naturally tells you that, oh, they're doing their own thing and they wouldn't want to include us in it. I think you just have to learn to tell that part of your brain, no. Yes, there'll be a little bit of awkwardness when you initially break into it. I mean, we did take and break into a group there in Atlanta and it was awkward at first, but they opened the circle and we started being part of the conversation and it really was fun. But it wasn't a click. I think it just was our perception that it was a click.
And I think we just need to take and realize that most of the time it's our fear response or that sort of thing that is preventing us from joining people and getting to know them. And also, you know, having our brain answer for us. You know, they don't look like they like people like us or whatever. And we do this quite a bit, at least I do, where we take in and our brain answers for someone else instead of us asking the question. Or it can be really simple that, you know, I'm ready to go to bed and I just start turning the TV off. And my wife's like, you know, why did you do that?
And that's like, well, I just thought you'd want to go to bed, too. So I started actually asking her, are you ready to have the TV turned off, not making that judgment for her? And I think this is the same thing that we need to need to take in and let that group of people speak for themselves. I mean, they're welcome to say go away. But I think in most cases and stuff, they won't.
And I think, well, we just need to get to take in and let that that group of people speak for themselves i mean they're welcome to say go away but i think in most cases and stuff they won't and i think well we just need to get over our our fear response of trying to talk to those people thanks a lot talk to you later let's talk about leaks baby let's talk about you and me let's talk about sitting in the corner and not going out and talking to people well that that worked about as well as i thought it was going to do right brilliant now that we've got that over and done with uh we're here to talk about uh not placing yourself sitting down in a corner or in just a corner breaking into i find it really hard to break into a social clique do you i do i feel like i'm not wanted there i think part of the struggle is actually we've been to clubs and events and we've gone in and more often than not we we kind of we find a seat and sit down and observe the world around us yeah we like some real estate to gather our thoughts maybe i think you just like sitting your ass down to be fair that too i mean part of this is just a logistical like thing if you're wearing high heels i'm like i'll be wearing these for 20 minutes let's go find a seat and have a drink there's also the the strategic ability to place your drink down on a table rather than stand up and can you continue to we have fallen foul to that one many a time if you have a drink in your hand and you're standing up on the edge of a little circle of people you will drink it three times as fast yeah there's nowhere to put it um and and three times out of ten figures are made up as well like sex panther yeah it works 100 of the time so we've gone to to clubs and events and sat ourselves down in corners and nine times out of ten when we've done that, despite nobody actually putting us in a corner, our ability to mingle has failed.
I think our intentions have always been good. Like we're not intending to ostracise ourselves intentionally and be like that silo mentality.
We just genuinely want to gather our thoughts together, have a little quick chat, scan the room together, maybe talk to each other and make ourselves feel like okay we're here we're doing this but then to our detriment sometimes because we just stay there well i think we we do have a little bit of a of a leftover mentality or at least i think you do jacques mrs h jacques too all right but this is because i think your pulling tactic as a younger lady which wasn't that long ago um is to is to bear necessity and expect people to come to you so i don't think you necessarily approach very many people and i with my limited abilities skills and and you know some pretty like sweet skateboarding skills i really don't and they left me a long time ago you know i'm a lot more nervous or used to be a lot more nervous about approaching people and chatting to them so it's very comfortable for me to sit sit down and hide myself away and i think we we do that as a natural piece plus i also think that we love our own company but what we found to be much more effective is actually to get off our arses and go and mingle and chat to people.
I think the benefit of doing that is obvious because you get to actually meet people and you can't just assume that people are going to come and find you because that seems to be arrogant. And I am arrogant. I know I am sometimes.
So if you see a group of people sort of hanging around together, a clique, the dreaded clique, we we have once we've been up on our feet actually gone and spoken to people and and wormed our way in introduced ourselves introduced ourselves integrated into a social circle yeah and um you know we've in fact we've played games and stuff and got people to sort of you know sort of asked ask people questions and we've kind of got interactive that way rather than just barging in necessarily although that you know you can try that yeah um but if you're sat down and you're talking to each other the chances are people unless they're feeling brave as well they're probably going to stick with their own people so a clique is just a group of people that know unless they genuinely want to sit down because you know we want to take the weight off our own feet and that's true but you know you you're much more interactive you're much more likely to make connections if you go and put yourself in someone else's presence not like i felt your presence darth vader style so what you're saying is i shouldn't be snooty mc snooterson and i should go and be a social butterfly yeah i think you know that that does help and the more you go out and do that the better you get at it i agree and the more chance there are of you or there is of you actually connecting with somebody when you look under the rocks and plants and take a glance at the so this is why the uh mrs h strategy of waiting for somebody to come to you is much more effective because the ability to think of a conversation is rapidly diminished.
I just don't know how to adult. Would you woo a woman? I wouldn't. I wouldn't be able to woo a woman because I wouldn't be able to get near her. How would you woo a lady? Genuine fear and worry. You shouldn't be scared of that. You're gorgeous. Thank you.
That's, you know, I'm going to going to keep this it's going to be my ringtone now we're very comfortable in sitting down in a corner or on a sofa away from all the action and just observing the world go around and the problem with that is is that every fucker else makes a connection during this period and we can also actually we can talk ourselves out of everything while we're doing that so we're looking around and we end up commentating on what we see rather than being part and interacting with everybody so our more successful evenings have been where we've actually got up our asses or not even had a table at all and we've mingled and chatted to people yeah and quite often we've we've used a little bit i'm ashamed to say a bit of a gimmick to talk to people sometimes that's a game so i remember one time we went to a social event and we were asking people to pick songs off the jukebox that was great that was a really good way the music was shit yes and we got to choose some good songs but also because yes you're right it did get people to kind of come back to you and integrate with you yep we've also wandered around an event with the game of lifestyle in our hand and used it as a way of joining other groups and chatting about this interesting thing that we've got because our personalities aren't interesting enough so you know it's a clique can be quite scary when you walk into a place and there's a group of people but more often than not they're just a group of people that know each other and there's no rules about not being able to approach them and say hello or make yourself uh known to that group and quite often when we've done that and been brave enough and put that first big step forward and say hey guys would you mind if we joined you nine times out of ten people have been very accepting and welcoming well sometimes they're not even a group but know each other sometimes they're just people who've been braver than we have and they've just literally got there and decided to be social those pre-grouping bastards i know we should learn from them so we definitely suggest um if you're going to an event that you get up on your feet that you mingle that you try and make you'll have so much more fun i think if you just yeah just talk to people otherwise what's the point of being there yeah and and sometimes that means that you've got to be brave and you know take that first step but actually once you've done that and if you get welcomed into the group and hopefully you will um you'll feel so much better because instantly you've got a bunch of new hopefully friends sometimes it's easier as well if you go to a bar like actually go up to the bar and just start chatting to the person next to you at the bar if you're a bit nervous about approaching a circle of people maybe just try a different way and just casually make conversation with the person next to you.
And then sometimes you end up going back to their group because you've just kind of met them and chatted to them. That's true. But don't chat to the person next to you if they're your other half. Well, you can. I mean, that's fine. But that tactic won't work in that situation because then you'll be like, hey, do you want to come back to my table? And you'll be like, yeah, that's great. But that's the table we've just come up from to get our drink. Oh, good, I see. Exactly. I'm lazy as fuck. I'll sit down. There we go. Our top tips. Thank you.
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