Want to send us a message? How often are you really supposed to be having sex? Spoiler alert: You ve been asking the wrong question.Society pushes a magic number for sexual frequency that s causing more harm than good. The truth? There is no normal. We re diving deep into why the three-times-a-week standard is BS, how desire actually works in long-term relationships, and the one thing that matters more than counting sessions—quality and connection.Ed and Phoebe challenge everything you thought you knew about sex in relationships, from the myth of spontaneous desire to why 80% of women can t orgasm the way we ve been told they should. Drawing on research from Dr. Karen Gurney s Mind the Gap and insights from the swinging lifestyle, we reveal practical strategies to build sexual currency without adding pressure, understand responsive desire, and create the conditions where passion can thrive.What You ll Learn:Why comparing your sex life to society s normal is killing your intimacyThe two types of desire and why waiting to feel like it sets you up for failureHow to build sexual currency through non-sexual intimacy (yes, doing dishes counts!)Why penetrative sex is women s least preferred sexual activity—and what that means for satisfactionThe surprising connection between household chores and sexual satisfactionHow the swinging lifestyle opened up game-changing conversations about sexWhy humans aren t biologically wired for monogamy (and what that means for your relationship)Timestamps:00:00 - Opening: The Question Everyone s Thinking01:02 - The Frequency Myth: Society s Broken Benchmark05:40 - Why We re Having Less Sex: Modern Intimacy Killers11:20 - How Desire Really Works: Spontaneous vs. Responsive16:30 - Arousal Non-Concordance: When Mind and Body Don t Match22:10 - Building Sexual Currency: Practical Strategies That Work28:00 - What Actually Matters: Quality, Communication Flexibility40:30 - The Gender Script Problem: Why PIV Isn t the Answer46:00 - What Actually Helps: From Chores to Mindfulness52:00 - The Big Picture: Rethinking Monogamy and Moving Forward58:00 - Key Takeaways Your Homework Assign Support the showWant More?👀 Watch on YouTube: YouTube ShowFull video versions and interactive live episodes!Bonus episodes, exclusive content, and 🌶️Extras: https://www.patreon.com/SwingerUniversity 🛳️🎉Looking for lifestyle events in your area? T4P is the go-to directory for clubs, parties, and resort events. Browse now at Ticket4Play.com Custom SU T-shirts and gear: Our Amazon StoreSwingerLinks.com - live schedule, special offers*, and our 🌶️links!Our Website - Leave us a message, articles, and sexy products3 Ways to get your question on our show:RECORD it on our website at: https://swingeruniversity.com/contact/EMAIL a recorded voice note to: [email protected]: (916) 538-0482 and leave a voicemail.* We get a commission if you decide to purchase through our links, at no cost to you.
Transcript
We have to talk about something we've been genuinely excited about for months, and our patrons actually got a preview of this already. Jamaica! Yes, we are going back, and actually, we have a great offer for you guys. Yeah, it's Swingcation. It's October 11th through the 18th at Hedonism 2. And if you don't know what Swingcation is, it's pretty easy. Swinger plus kink plus vacation. It's a hosted group with real structure, workshops, lectures, real conversations with experts who are passionate about bringing and bridging that gap between the swinger world and the kink world.
And we're not just going as attendees. We're going as featured presenters, which is exciting. We'll be leading sessions. So if you come, we actually get to hang out with you. Which brings up something we should mention. When you use our code, yes, we got a code, you're not just getting a discount. You're getting the signature swing experience, which means $100 off per person, up to $200 per room, but it also means that we make time for you. An exclusive breakfast, lunch, cocktail hour, or one-hour and one time with us directly, plus more surprise benefits.
Here's something that's really unique. You could actually contribute by hosting a discussion or running a Skillshare. I know it's scary, but if you have something that you want to contribute, that's a big part of why this event is so special. Everyone there has something to bring to the table. All right, details. If you book before April 25th, you save $400. Plus, they gave us that special code that gets you an additional $200, and the special code is SWINGERU-VIP. So book through TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky. That's T-I-C-K-E-T, the number four, play.com forward slash S-W-I-N-K-Y.
And use our code at checkout. And you guys, if you have any questions about the event, the resort, or what to expect, just reach out. I mean, we're here for you. We're happy to help. So once again, TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky, the code SwingerU-VIP. We really want to see you there. Here's a question that everyone's thinking about, but nobody wants to answer honestly. How often are you actually having sex? Here's what nobody tells you. You've been asking the completely wrong question. There's this number floating around, you know the one.
Society's little benchmark for a healthy relationship. Today, we're going to destroy that myth. But more than that, we're going to reveal something about desire that will completely change how you think about sex in your relationship. We're going to talk about why 80% of women can't orgasm the way we've been told they should. And the one thing you can start building today that will transform your sex life without adding pressure. If you've felt broken out of sync with your partner or wondered why the passion faded this one's for you let's get real about what actually matters.
Well, folks, let's talk about this frequency myth. Yeah. well folks let's talk about this frequency myth yeah we're we get stuck comparing ourselves to something that we've heard there's this cultural pressure where society tells us that there's this normal number that we should adhere to for the number of times that we should have sex in a week, in a month, in a year, etc. Otherwise, you're just broken. Right. And there's that beginning of relationship number and then there's like once you're married, there's the number changes.
There's all these numbers that they keep throwing around so we have to fit this box right so the pervasive three times a week standard and where this number came from all right we're going to launch into that and then why comparing yourselves to others kills your sex life. The truth bomb about all of this is there's no to others kills your sex life. The truth bomb about all of this is there's no magic number or yardstick. Right. Quality over quantity every single time.
What the research actually shows about satisfaction versus frequency is that satisfaction wins right the reality check for you know some of the statistics are that on the average for UK because this these stats came from the UK. The average is three times a month. But over 40% of the women want more than that. So this isn't a statistic that says you have to have it three times a month. And it's certainly not worldwide.
It small statistic right one you know area just what people reported that they had right right and and then 52 percent of the women actually want better sex right so the key insight really is people just want improvement not just more yeah. Yeah, we hear this phrase all the time. It's quality over quantity. Heck, we're hearing it about social media all the time. But it applies to sex, too. The quality of the sex is way more important than the quantity of the sex, like how often you're having it.
I mean, it isn't really rocket science when you break it down to, let's just say you're a compulsive shopper, right? You're shopping for the best deal and getting the cheapest things. Well, you're getting low quality. Maybe you've got a budget and you're just buying low quality things, maybe on one of those apps that ship in from overseas i i have done that plenty of times i spend five dollars for a three set piece of lingerie and i buy oh gosh i've been known to buy like 20 items at a time right for like 50 bucks right yeah this is the cruise shopping trip, the pre-cruise shopping trip, yeah.
And they all come in and they're all, even though you've done the measurements and you think the size is going to fit you, they never do. They're sized strangely and they fit most people or I don't even know if they fit most people. One size fits some?
One out of 20 items you go yeah i may have gotten one or two and you're like okay 25 each you toss the rest or you donate them because there's no way you can return it cost too much to return it right so there's that you're not getting quality it just be better and honestly it would have been a better use of my time because you know how long it took me to find those right and find the right size right it would have been better just to go to a quality lingerie shop try it on get the one spend 80 bucks or 100 on it right and have it And get one amazing piece of lingerie. Yes. That fits my body.
That is just stellar. And it's quality. And it'll last for years. Right. So why are we having this sense? What's really getting in the way? Let us know. Tell us, Ed us ed yeah so we'll just get to it modern life is really killing intimacy and people are having less sex than in the past two decades because we are as a whole overwhelmed stressed constantly distracted huh what really squirrel Ha, ha, stressed, constantly distracted. Huh? What? Really? Squirrel. Social media, jobs, phones, television, like everything is competing for our attention.
And actually, I think this has traditionally been a statistic. And that's why married couples or couples with kids have less sex because they got just too much stuff going on oh yeah and what what it really boils down to is you have no mental space left you're give up literally you're give a fuck meter meter is depleted there's nothing left yeah you've got no mental capacity physical capacity for any desire to merge yeah it just got sucked out of you by life yeah and the noise yes I understand this 100% so then you've got these mental blocks right We'll be right back. Yeah. And the noise. Yes.
I understand this. 100%. So then you've got these mental blocks, right? Mental distractions equals less arousal, which equals less desire. You've got day-to-day worries and stress that impacts your body's response.
Because stress hormones, not good yeah yeah the cortisol right yeah not good for body responses and then for men oh god performance anxiety yeah we've we've done a whole episode on this happens to even the the most virile of men and you get into a playroom you get into a situation and am i doing it right does she feel right am i paying attention to my partner or my wife or you know is something going on in the background you know someone's having a conversation i'm distracted okay can we talk about October for a second? Oh my God, yeah. I've been waiting for this.
We were invited to be guest speakers for two engagements on a six-star crystal cruise ship with 310 lifestyle couples.
And it sails from Montreal to Boston during the during the peak foliage season i'm super excited and honestly i'm really nervous yeah it's kind of a version of like a swinger ted talk that we're gonna have to do oh my god i know and more importantly if you know the brand it's llv luxury lifestyle vacations you may have seen them and they're sexy playmakers with their fun red hats this ship the crystal symphony is classy butler service for every single room michelin rated restaurants full spa clothing optional sensual playrooms, like everything, theme nights and international DJ.
So it's luxury and nudity. Oh man, this is going to be great. The bottom line is we want you there with us. It's 310 couples and like all their vacations, they book up fast. They really do. Their vacations are extremely popular. So please come with us. And in order to find it, all you have to do is go to our swingerlinks.com and look for the LLV Sensual Voyage. We hope you'll join us. Is she having a good time? Is she feeling pleasure? Right. All of this stuff. Am I going to be able to release? And is that expected of me? Right. Oh my gosh. Blah.
You get into this vicious cycle where you can't get out of your head. And we've talked about this before, where it just gets worse because you end up in this loop where you can't get out of your head and we've talked about this before where it just gets worse because you end up in this loop where you're constantly thinking about it and trying to not think about it makes you think about it because you're thinking about not thinking about it. Right. It's evil.
There's one thing you can't think about and you can't stop now yeah and and then this one for us living living together and we we live together 24 7 essentially post covid when our jobs yeah went remote full-time yeah we are together 24 7 our office is the same room right we sit back to back to each other yeah and when we're not working we're in this room having conversations right and when we're not here we're out doing things to get food to get whatever right so yeah we we don't get a break from each other we don't get get that kind of like, oh, it's so good to see you again.
I've missed you. Right. Because I see you all the time. Yeah, we have friends that have spouses that have just crazy travel schedules and they get to separate and come back together and separate and come back together. And that's way different for for us right and so proximity reduces that novelty over time right and it also has that loss of sexual currency yeah which you get with 30 texts and compliments and lounging around you know naked or Thank you. You get with 30 texts and compliments and lounging around naked or phone sex if you're in a hotel because you're traveling, right?
You don't have that. Yeah. Yeah. It's silly to sit on opposite ends of the couch and text each other, you know, sexy messages. It just doesn't have the same ring to it. And, you know, we're working and so all I have to do is turn around and see you. And so you just don't think about that kind of stuff. And, you know, I'll get up and walk past you and give you a little kiss on the head and things like that. Oh, yes. We're very good at that.
I like I like touching you but it's still not quite the same as having that that separation to kind of create a little bit of longing right and yeah we've seen it kind of affect our sex life and our relationship yeah the and then those relationship roles they they tend to become too defined right who's the instigator who's the person who's whatever right asking for right and we're going to get into that too which is desire doesn't work how you think it does, which was mind-blowing to me. Right.
So the game-changing reframe based on this, we're all operating on this old model or the traditional view that we wait to feel like it.
Right then act on it this is you know a model that stems all the way back to the 1950s sure and the media portrays that there's lust and passion and and spontaneity right look at your those um perfume ads are the best one of the best ones for that right i mean they've even made um at food ads that are oh yeah the new cheese it's one talks about the they're reading the bodice ripper yes in a study group and they're like oh i desire you mr cheesy i know i looked at you cross across the couch and I went, they just sexified Cheez-Its. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh my God, what is happening?
Yeah, so there's always this kind of traditional portrayal of desire and how it works. And then you just, you know, when you see somebody from across the room, you just feel that desire. Well, sometimes you don't, right? Like sometimes you're not in the mood for it. Yeah. And it's a problem, especially for women, because it just sets up a failure in long-term relationships, especially when a woman is conditioned that this is how it's supposed to happen. This is the model that I need to follow. These are the roles that people fall into.
And so when I get into a relationship, this is the formula. Yeah. And I'll go so far as to say, I suspect that's why a lot of monogamous relationships actually fail. It's because, well, I just don't feel passionate about that person anymore and you know there just isn't that spark right and i think that is this fundamental misunderstanding of how you keep the spark alive and how you keep a relationship in that kind of sense of spontaneity and and desire Right.
There are two types of desire, the spontaneous desire, desire right there are two types of desire the spontaneous desire and then the responsive desire so talk about the spontaneous desire yeah so this is the one that you see in movies all the time where it's like you know you see each other you run towards each other you tear each other's clothes off and there's this novelty to it you know and you really get this kind of instantaneous like love or lust at first sight now not that that doesn't happen but that's that's how it's portrayed and and i think that that's the one that everybody kind of equates with desire where you have to have you have to like instantly get aroused because you see this person and it's really common in new relationships especially with men because of the whole testosterone and androgens thing you've got we've got chemicals running through us that go hot woman me see and you know we run across the room we attack her because we're just horned up right but when you see someone on a regular basis you you really do need that novelty in the relationship to add that spark back.
And this is where a lot of people have found E&M and hanging out in open-minded communities to spark that desire in their own relationship, whether it be just watching. Right. Right? Because there's, what were we calling that, defining those people the other day? Vanilla. Oh, dirty vanillas. Dirty vanillas.
vanilla yeah this is a new a new emerging term where yeah they they don't play with other people but they like being around other people we used to call them swinger adjacent because it's like they're they're supporters of the community but they're not in the community right right then there's responsive desire where the desire emerges out of being sexual right so your your engagement actually triggers the desire not the other way around it's like a fake it till you make it kind of yeah yeah and that's the this sense of touching frequently and building up that sexual currency that you were talking about before.
And you can kind of think of that as like every time you brush up against your partner or you say something saucy to them, you're adding money into this bank, into this desire bank.
And over time, it builds up and so that you you kind of have this just general sense of arousal around that person because you're you're constantly feeding that yes that works very well for for women i mean it does also work well for men but more so for women right the other key insight is you don't have to feel like it before you start right which was also shocking to me and but that plays into what you were just saying about the currency, right? You're, you're, we know someone who is really good. They're good friends of ours.
He's very good at taking his wife out on a long day date and extending the whole day is one long date and foreplay session. Right. It involves good food. It involves shopping. He's doting on her, taking care of her, teasing her, petting her, dropping little hints in her ear about what's potentially going to be happening that evening. She doesn't know exactly, but he's got this master plan. Right.
And, you know as the day progresses there's this acceleration of of anticipation and then by the time evening rolls around and it's time to engage together mm-hmm she's you know she's right up there she's ready mentally she's in that right spot which is why this concept of I'm gonna wait to do anything with anybody especially in the swinger circle until the stars align right or it just has to feel right honestly in swinging if you hear this phrase from another couple it's never gonna happen if that's what they tell you oh we're very selective or the stars have to align or we just have to it has to feel right the moment has to be right move on right move on you're literally playing the lottery you're hoping you're hoping that they're gonna just feel the right way at the right time when you happen to be there.
Or you're going to do something to make them feel that way. And you can't make anyone feel a certain way. Right. So, unless they're telling you, unless they say, I really like these things. Words work really well for me. I like when a man uses a lot of words. I like when a man touches me. I like when a man does X, Y, Z.
If they're actively engaging you and telling you what they like as an individual, yes, then definitely go for it but if they're not and they're just like oh you know when the moon wraps around saturn and it's 2035 you're like yeah i mean if you're only there for a weekend or an evening or a week good luck you know the world is your oyster go find another oyster we found that kind of same room and parallel play and kind of that whole puppy pile thing oh yes being in the playroom worked really well for us because you're kind of once again you're surrounding yourself by that sexy environment and you know you're you're involved in it you're in it and so you start to start to kind of rub off on you i mean sometimes literally it rubs on you just the mood and the the sounds and the sexy vibe it's right there yes especially for me especially if it's more of an intimate environment right um and the which could be lighting and the size of the room and the way the room is set up has a cozy feel to it.
That's what works for me. Some people don't need that. I need that cozy feel to it. Then it really, really does work for me. Yeah. i think a lot of that stems from the the studies that we've read where women really need safety yes that sense of i'm i'm going to be okay or or cared for and therefore i can relax yes and have a good time yes exactly even though i know you're right there and I know there's security outside the door and I know the community is safe. It's that innate feeling that you're talking about.
Of course, we are not advocating doing something you don't want to do by placing yourself in a situation that makes you really uncomfortable because I will tell you, we have walked into rooms and we've stood there and I go, you know, I'm just not feeling it.
There's something off about the night and I can't really describe what it is and there's no amount of watching that's going to get me there yeah and you know once again those stars they're not going to align arousal non-concordance all right okay so this is really interesting in a term that's being thrown around and there's there's some there's two types of that okay this is where your desire and your body's response don't always match oh so type one is where the body shows a sign of arousal, but the person actually doesn't feel aroused. Yes.
So mentally, there's nothing going on, but down below, it's nice and squishy. Right. type two the body does not show signs of arousal but the person feels aroused right mentally i'm there and my body's like doop yeah whatever yeah so your mind and your body are kind of out of sync with each other. Yeah. You could kind of classify the ED or... Yes. As kind of being, you know, I'm there. I really want to be here. One of it. And it's just not happening because your body is just... Exactly. I hadn't thought of it. That's a very good example.
And at the end of the day, and it's just not happening because your body is just exactly i hadn't thought of it that's a very good example and then i think that the other one that's pretty typical is women are mentally just there someplace else they're checked out but you know their body's like hey what's going on yeah like you said yeah nice and wet but not really interested in playing so yeah yeah and then and I was trying to think of a couple parties where that has happened um sometimes it happens where you know the initial interaction is yeah I'm I'm interested but then by the time you get to the bedroom something changes or there's a touch that's off or maybe you're you're going faster at a different pace than i am because i like to approach it a little more slowly and that throws me off and then i start to then now i'm starting to get in my head which is kind of like this ed example where yeah so my body is still receptive but now my mind is starting to check out and so it gets tricky it gets very tricky and all of this is completely normal completely normal and if you feel this way and you have the presence of mind in the moment and the when i say that that's what i mean you you're very aware you haven't been drinking you haven't been doing any drugs and you can kind of see outside of all the oxytocin and other hormones that are raging through your body right now to, to speak up for yourself and go, you know, I'm done.
I'm going to remove myself out of this situation. It might be a little awkward for everybody everybody involved but i'm taking care of myself yeah and i think this is the key consent conversation yes a lot of people have a hard time with which was oh we're all in the room and i just you know i just said yes because i'm a people pleaser and i didn't want to you you know, break the mood that everybody was feeling. And if you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. And you really should give yourself a break out of that.
And there have been several times where we have gone into that situation and said, look, we're really interested. It has been a long day. day it's pretty late we are a little tired and i've had a few drinks right i'm very interested but at some point during this interaction i might pull the plug i'm i might i might feel like i'm i'm just not there because I am it's two in the morning we were in the sun all day so I might, I might feel like I'm, I'm just not there because I am, you know, it's two in the morning. We were in the sun all day. Yes.
So please give me some grace if I pull the plug and I need to disengage. And, and it's a little bit of an insight ahead of time where people go, oh yeah, yeah, no shirt, no problem. Right. So you can kind of set them up as to where you're at um and honestly if you don't set them up if you say it in a nice way people are very understanding even if you don't even you don't use a lot of words people are usually really understanding they're not going to bite your head off right or or be disappointed and go uh we're gonna, we're going to have to have a rain check on this because it's 2 a.m. Yeah.
It's not working. Something's not working. It's not working. Whatever. Right. All right. Tell us how we build the sexual... Here's why we sail on virgin it's adults only no kids screaming at breakfast no family buffet lines just champagne at noon late night pool parties and people who actually want to be there the vibe think? Think boutique hotel that happens to float. Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you'd actually pay for on land. Plus, when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let's just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous.
No wonder cruisers here just your people yeah so here's some practical strategies that actually work for banking that sexual energy and well let's talk about what sexual currency is first. So think of it as that charge, that spark that we keep talking about that's very vague and very Hollywood that you feel between you and your partner or you and a potential partner. And that spark over time declines the the new sexy smell kind of wears off, if you will.
You know, you get familiar with things, you get into habits, and maybe you don't have the dishabituation where you have the distance or the separation where you kind of feel that longing or desire. Right.
So that repetitive day in in day out of the relationship starts to really erode that currency and it puts that pressure on the person who's typically been the initiator right which is that role that you've defined in your relationship which can change it can switch yeah you have that conversation and and that's the hard part too is you you start to feel this decline and if you're the initiator you feel like they're not interested so you you feel awkward initiating and they're not initiating because they've never had that role. Right. So that's never going to happen. Right.
And then the other person, the initiator feels rejected. Right. I know. It becomes this very sad kind of loop. I know. So how do you increase this sexual currency, this spark? How do you get it back?
And this is what you guys have all been waiting for this is what we teased at the beginning do things like this kiss more kissing is a huge desire builder we talk about it in our episodes we've done some kissing episodes we even did a seminar at one of our conference conferences one of the swinger getaways where we talked about how important and how intimate and how sexy kissing is yeah and i think a lot of people don't don't use that tool well enough often enough right it's so important because you are right in somebody's face and there's all kinds of nerve endings going on and it's not penetrative sex right so you're not like jumping too far ahead we're all used to it and it's it's kind of sweet too so it doesn't have to be like jump on them and stick your tongue down their throat.
It can be very gentle and it warms up very quickly. So kissing, kissing is very good. You can schedule physical intimacy. So not sex, not like we will have sex on Wednesdays because it's business day. Things like cuddling make time with your significant other to cuddle with them sit with them uh take baths together now we're not huge advocates for bathtubs or we watch all the home remodel shows and just have a fit every time we see a bathtub like nobody ever like, nobody ever uses bathtubs. Well, if you have one, use it for taking baths together because it's kind of fun and intimate.
Or if you have a hot tub, that's also a really good choice. And this one's talked about a lot, but we'll throw it in here too.
And that's actually set up a date night with your long-term partner, your spouse spouse like make time for yourselves to just go hang out and be together and like the old days right like kind of rekindle those old date night yeah the date night i know we we had a a few date nights uh in the last two weeks and it was really nice we stepped up that frequency because we we've just been so stressed out and so busy we have two full-time jobs plus plus this job and another one and another job so we we we really do probably work 60 hours a week so we needed a break and it was so nice remember i was telling you like yeah i'm so enjoying this date it was so nice to just get out and play and have fun and have dinner and we went to a comedy show it was it was lovely and i'm like we need to do we need to do more and part of this uh one of the other things we talked about was kind of creating distance so go hang out with the guys or go have a girl's night out and create that separation.
And you'll miss your partner because you've got some distance from them. So when they come home, you're excited to see them again. That's actually really important. Yes. It also gives you kind of a mental break from it. So it's not just a physical distance thing.
thing it's you're not in each other's face you're not thinking about each other you're remote and you're having to kind of remember so it actually triggers a different part of your brain and this is these are some fun ones so share a sexual secret between the two of you so which I mean I mean swinging is one of the biggest sexual secrets you can have and and the secret itself was I mean so exciting right I mean it was terrifying and exciting all at the same time and I'm trying to remember when the novelty of the secret wore off is probably when we came out yeah probably but there's other sexual secrets that you can have too uh we were talking about kind of breaking routine think about role-playing think about things like that so you know your your partner's the the pizza delivery guy the naughty secretary the whatever and those things I'll see you next time.
Your partner's the pizza delivery guy, the naughty secretary, the whatever. And those things kind of create this memory, this trigger for things that are different. Yes. And of course, do things that make you feel desired. So do things that make you feel sexy and enjoy each other's space and your bodies and things like that so i don't know maybe do like a nude cooking thing or yeah there's some you know lingerie friday or something fun you would cook naked with nothing but an apron sometimes. And I really did like that. Come out of the kitchen. There's just the naked butt right there.
Yeah, it's fun. I come around the corner. Oh, surprise. Hello, butt. I know. That was really fun. Yeah. Dinner was a little late on those times, but, you know, it was worth it.
absolutely we didn't burn the meal right so speaking of don't like don't burn the meal don't schedule sex itself it creates a lot of pressure because you now have a goal and it's goal oriented which means that you're probably not going to arrive at that goal if you will things don't work if you put a lot of pressure on yourself yeah and most things that are scheduled are picking up the kids and you know boring I know going to work and clocking in or clocking out you know all the day-to-day stuff that are scheduled that's the last thing you want to do and it's funny because they always used to say you need to schedule that but now the advice is don't yeah it's terrible advice we talked about it earlier so schedule things like intimacy and cuddling and things like that the kind of the precursors because there's no pressure with cuddling you know there's that's easy and then here's the other thing and we talked about it before but it's wait to feel it so if you wait it's never going to happen right so don't wait so don't wait And try not to fall into these predictable initiation patterns.
And this is going to be hard. This is probably the hardest one of the list. And that's try and break up who is the initiator for sex and who isn't. Right. We watched Caitlin V's show. Yes.
I don't remember what it's called now it's been a while and there was one of the partners who always initiated sex and the the woman in that relationship always felt like it was being kind of put upon her yeah she had to say yes because he was initiating And therefore she had to say so there was always this pressure because of this role dynamic that they had and when they reversed it it was this sense of when's it going to happen there's this sense of anticipation there's this sense of i i don't know what to expect i don't know when it's when is, you know, sneak up and attack me kind of a thing.
Yes. So there's this anticipation for it. Yes. Which builds arousal, which is super good. They're super good. Super good. There was another couple in that same series that Caitlin B. did where she, the woman was the initiator and she challenged the man to be the initiator and it was very awkward for him and so she assigned him um her advice was to to step into a role right and so to dress differently and just to kind of help get that feeling of stepping into a role. And when he did and he dressed in a suit, something he normally doesn't wear, he found that was very empowering.
And most people have had this experience where you try on a different piece of clothing and you go, wow, I feel so sexy or I feel so powerful. I feel so alive or tall. And he almost became a different person, which was exciting for the wife because she's like, who is this man? Right. You've broken that routine. You've broken that traditional role.
And his was almost a form of role playing which which did kind of it made him feel sexy and she was intrigued because it broke that routine yeah it was it was pretty it was hot it was very it was very hot so the initiation factor so this is who who's going to say hey you want to have sex it's a form of communication and you we have this problem we get typecast into this predictable i'm the initiator and you're the receiver and then you do end up in this this very awkward situation of i don't i don't feel like the time is right i feel i feel bad asking because you asking because you've had a hard week and I don't want to put that pressure on you.
And both partners need to feel desired or in their own way. And so there's this need to kind of understand what that sexual language is, that communication between the two people. And it's interesting. You say men don't always want direct initiation either and I agree with that to a certain extent although I do do kind of like an assertive woman yes not aggressive like right but but like feeling desired is very sexy yeah but, but it can also be a lot more subtle too. So like you coming up and giving me the kisses instead and the cuddling and all that, that gets my juices going as well.
So it doesn't have to be so overt. It can be a little subtle. What actually matters? Yep. This is where it all comes down. Quality, communication, and flexibility. Sexual satisfaction does not equal frequency. Right. And the average sexual engagement, this may surprise you, is 18 minutes. Wait, it's not three hours of just hot, passionate, you know, whatever? No. And it's not three minutes, right? But I think that's pretty reasonable. 18 minutes is pretty good. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I thought, okay, yeah, that's pretty good.
Relationship satisfaction and desire maintenance improve when you can talk about sex. Yeah, and I think that that's really key. When we first started the lifestyle and actually had to talk about sex. Yes.
because we had to talk about mechanically what was going to happen when we went to different places and what everybody's rules were and boundaries yeah we actually started having conversations about sex what we wanted to do what we didn't like what we more of this less of that yes yes i loved those conversations those are some really good conversations we should have we should have more of those we still do but not to the level that we did because we've've figured a lot out in 10 plus years, 11, 12 years. Right. And most people do find it difficult to discuss sex with their partner.
I remember those early conversations were pretty awkward. Yeah. Some of them were.
Um, there were certain desires that that i had or certain concepts that i had a hard time communicating because i thought you would leave me for them or right and like having sex with other people yeah oh my god yeah and sometimes we've heard from other friends who are in the community say that they've had conversations with their spouse that that they're not acting on for example like one of our friends said he could easily be polyamorous right but he knows his wife isn't but he thought that was important to tell her and knowing her as well as he does he he felt safe right enough that she wasn't going to divorce him and leave him but it was still nerve-wracking to disclose that yeah it's very vulnerable to to talk about sex with your partner um it's one thing to talk about sex with your partner.
It's one thing to talk about that kind of like spontaneous desirable kinds of sex things like, oh, I can't wait to do things with you, whatever that is. But it's another to go I kind of have a kink that I need to talk to you about. Or I really want to see this happen. Or I And I think that have a kink that I need to talk to you about, or I really want to see this happen, or who knows, right? There's any number of things that can come up. Yeah, it's fun. That's what's fun about the lifestyle is that you start to crack open in your mind and your opportunities start to expand.
you start to explore yourself you grow sexually as a as an individual with your partner and you discover each other again and you start having these conversations and things you didn't know about them before all of a sudden you know and things that they didn't know they liked they now like because they've seen something or they had an experience doing something. There are plenty of times where I had an experience doing something that I didn't think I was going to like. And after that experience, I liked it. But I didn't know what I didn't know because I'd never tried it. Yeah.
And we've noticed this in the lifestyle lifestyle too where you didn't even know it was a thing but then you saw it happen at a party and you were like oh my god i'd never really thought about that particular thing so that whole combination of three or four people on a bed you didn't know it was a thing but then you see somebody doing're like, I want, I want to try that. That looks like a lot of fun. Exactly. I think all of this kind of boils down this whole section into creating a relationship culture where you can just openly talk about sex.
And I think that's what most people find the lifestyle so appealing is everybody can talk about everything and you're not going to get judged by it you you know talking about anal sex whether you like it you don't like it um orgies or oh i have this kink and everybody's oh do you now oh that's fascinating I've never tried that or I tried that once and it's not my thing right but there's this general sense that you can talk about anything at any time with anybody and it's okay yes I love that about the lifestyle. There is a gender script problem where PIV, which is penetrative sex.
For those who don't know, that's the thing. Right. It is the dominant script. And it does suit the man better. Right.
I will tell you, you 80 of the women cannot orgasm vaginally they only they need the clitoral stimulation to go hand in hand with that right that's huge i didn't know that it no nobody talks about that right nobody talks about that and i have been at plenty of parties where there's a woman on the bed and the sounds are just emoting from her like crazy right and she sounds and looks like she's having an amazing time and it's just the orgasms are around the room flying around the room it's hard to be in the room with somebody like that and go wow yeah i didn't really have a good time or i'm not gonna have a good time as that yeah the bar gets set really really high for those easily orgasmic women right and so then you think wow okay then now there's this expectation that if i'm going to be in this room playing with this other person that that's that's what should happen right no as furthest thing from the truth and usually an orgasm never happens probably 20% of the time yeah but part of that too is that that person doesn't know my buttons maybe i wasn't good at communicating what i wanted that time right maybe i was too tired maybe you're not warmed up enough you haven't built up that sexual currency i got distracted something right there distracted.
Something, right? There's all these factors because usually we're exhibitionists and so there's a lot of stimulation going on. Right. Which is why I really do get why a lot of people like to close the door so they can remove that factor of distraction. Women rank PIV as their least preferred form of sex right what yeah and and men equally rate that as the most preferred form of sex so we're we're already like venus and mars on this whole thing I know. Crazy. I had no idea.
And then the other interesting fact is the initiator experiences higher satisfaction hey there podcast listeners you've been tuning into our episodes but have you ever wondered about the steamy details of our adventures or maybe hungry for some sultry, erotic stories? Well, guess what? We've got something special just for you. Our exclusive Patreon page. It's like a VIP pass to the saucier side of our world. So, if you're ready for an exclusive behind-the-mic experience, head over to our Patreon page now. Trust us, this is where the magic happens. See you there, patrons.
And that kind of makes sense because the initiator's thinking about it so they're already halfway there yeah they like started it in their head okay so they're starting to gear up that makes sense so the other person's catching up right but there's probably also something chemically that's going on with the initiator if they're starting to think about sex where, you know, the hormones or they saw something throughout the day or whatever. So who knows what that level of arousal is to kind of get to the point of initiation. Right.
I actually have experienced this with a previous husband where I'm like right there and I'm thinking, well, he's a guy. He's going to be ready like that. And no, he needed time to decompress from his day. And I found myself getting frustrated that he wasn't ready like that.
And I had to take a step back and check myself because it was a bit unfair I I fell into that stereotype categorization that well you have testosterone and you're a dude so when I say I'm ready you're ready you just push the button and it just pushed just yeah happens so you know men aren't that much different than women yes you have different hormones but yes still so this is some fun stuff We'll be right back.
men aren't that much different than women yes you have different hormones but yes still so this is some fun stuff what helps with this initiation imbalance oh i like this one yes i i knew you would because there's some funny things in here that that really aren't related. No. As an example, equality in household chores increases sexual satisfaction. So taking the trash out, doing the dishes, vacuuming for your partner is kind of sexy, even though it's not sexy at all. Right.
It is is because that's a thing that they're worrying about or stressing about or thinking about it's occupying their brain and the fact that someone took that load off of them and that they don't have to think about it it gives them that sense of security it gives them that sense of like oh that was very sweet of them which kicks off all of those oxytocin chemical reactions for being cared for and feeling closer to somebody yes and especially if your love language is acts of service ding right also plays into that as well mindfulness Mindfulness engagement equals more orgasms.
So getting that brain going, whatever it takes. Being present in the moment, thinking about the thing that you're doing and not. Pushing boundaries and sexual experimentation. I thought about that earlier with role-playing, kinks. Going to your first swinger party. Right. Even if you're not going to participate, just the act of going is enough to kind of create this, ooh, we're doing something naughty. Yes. And we know plenty of people too who have built their own sex room. Right. And so that's a project together that is arousing, right? They plan it. They purchase for it. They build it.
And then that is their safe space that they look forward to going to. And they're not in that room all the time.
So it's like being on a mini a mini vacation right and they go to that room that's under lock and key usually because they have young children it's either in the basement or someone built a like a shed oh yeah in their backyard and soundproofed it and everything and that's where all their kink stuff is yeah it's interesting because we talked early in this episode about kind of creating a sexual atmosphere yes and i can imagine walking past the sex room all the time even with the door closed you know what's in that room and it's just this constant reminder of like oh that's where the fun stuff happens yeah that i like that okay so we're going to tear the podcast room down and we're just going to put a dungeon in here being able to renegotiate your sexual preferences and I think this is important because desires change over time sexual preferences change over time we say this all the time sex is fluid it doesn't stay the same and things that turned you on last week maybe not turn you on this week so constantly kind of adjusting to how you're feeling and what turns you on.
And the key is, too, that sexuality should evolve and flex as you age. We're not stagnant people. Nothing is stagnant in nature. Maybe a mountain.
But even then, it's subject to ice and coal and wind and erosion so everything changes and you also need to be aware of those life stage reality checks right because some of you have children and not really until your child is about six years old does your sexuality return back to normal because there's a lot of time that's taken out of your normal routine for for sex because you're caring for a young person and they they require a lot of energy yeah a lot of attention you You're constantly worried about them because they're not self-sufficient yet.
And that's a huge mental load, I think, for both partners or at least for one of them, which of course then creates this disparity in terms of responsibility. So taking on some of that burden and kind of evening the load will also help, too. Yeah. They're also in school by then, so that helps, too. That helps, too. A little nooner. Menopause disrupts things quite a bit. Yeah. Changes that need addressing. Sexual relationships need to grow and adapt. The big picture.
Reframing sexual health in relationships getting real about monogamy humans are not biologically designed for monogamy it's a social construct right And open relationships are on the rise. I think, what did we read? Oh my gosh, like seven years ago, that it was the swinger or open relationship community is larger than the LGBTQ plus community. Right.
right as a whole there's a higher percentage of the population who have either experimented with or experienced ethical non-monogamy in some form or another right and the myth of finite love right is is a lie you can love friends children a partner um without depleting your vessel of love right right this isn't a it's not a cup that you pour out a little and somebody gets a little bit of love and somebody else doesn't it's and this is why polyamory works for a lot of people because it kind of creates its own fountain yeah and the the different forms of love also don't detract from each other so you can have you know familial love with with some people but then sexual love with others and we were worried when we first got into the lifestyle about it kind of taking the special out of our sexual relationship we didn't find that it did um the the relationships we had with other play partners were not even close to being the same as our relationship and if anything it gave us great stories to talk about and experiences that we had together which fueled that spontaneity and the spark in our own relationship exactly moving forward focus on quality and connection not counting right talk about where you want your sexual relationship to go build your sexual currency daily i go to those shoulds never should on yourself and do not compare yourself to others i still struggle with this the comparison from time to time i'm much better at it but it does crop up it's inevitable it is and embrace that responsive desire and the last is all of these things will be a big boost to your sexual positivity right.
So in closing, my love, what are some of the key takeaways? Well, the most important takeaway is that there's no right frequency. So stop comparing yourself to something that Cosmopolitan said, where you're supposed to have sex three times a week.
You could have one amazing blowout sex party a a month and if it was so amazing that you could live off of the the vapors for that for for a whole month then great you are probably having more satisfying sex than someone who's you know banging one out three days a week right quality beats quantity every time having mediocre fast food sacks if you will versus a nice four-course meal take the four-course meal always better don't wait until you feel like it responsive desire is normal so build that desire up over time and of course build your sexual currency through non-sexual intimacy so yeah taking out the trash actually makes you more attractive to your spouse so do it talk about sex like you talk about anything else.
And I think this is the probably, I think, the most important thing and what helped us the most. And that is just talk about it. Talk about it anytime you have a thought about it. And talking about it is also sexy.
So just the act of opening up but then talking about sexy things, it's of a turn on so your call to action is check out dr karen gurney's book mind the gap right very very helpful very informative there's also a really good resource i want to point you towards which is the gotman which is the Gottman Institute, but they have communication tools on that website that are also very good. They also have courses that you can buy, and they're an amazing couple. They're both therapists, stellar human beings, and a wealth of fascinating information. Yeah, yeah.
There's one other that I'll throw in here, which isn't in our notes, but it's Sex and Captivity, which is a great resource. And they give you homework. Speaking of homework, because we wouldn't be Swinger University if we didn't give you homework. Thank you.
which is a was a great resource and they give you homework speaking of homework because we wouldn't be swinger university if we didn't give you homework have one conversation about sex this week with your partner at least yeah and i do want to throw out one more resource that we talked about earlier which is caitlin v yeah she's got some v as in victor she's on youtube i'm not sure where you can find her. It could have been a Netflix series special. I don't know if it was HBO or Netflix, but yeah. For stars. But find her also very great, amazing sex therapist. Right. Her content is phenomenal.
Fun stuff. Final thought. The best sex life isn't about hitting a number. It's about creating the conditions where desire can emerge and connection can flourish. Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining our community. And for those of you who are live, thank you very much for joining us at this time. Don't forget your homework.
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