Want to send us a message? Join us for….all the feels: rejection, jealousy, mind games, hokey pokey and zombie feelings. We also share some of our early perceptions of swinging and personal growth. SHOW NOTES:A Little About UsJealousyAll the feels!Zombie FeelingsMind gamesRejectionHokey Pokey Support the showWant More?👀 Watch on YouTube: YouTube ShowFull video versions and interactive live episodes!Bonus episodes, exclusive content, and 🌶️Extras: https://www.patreon.com/SwingerUniversity 🛳️🎉Looking for lifestyle events in your area? T4P is the go-to directory for clubs, parties, and resort events. Browse now at Ticket4Play.com Custom SU T-shirts and gear: Our Amazon StoreSwingerLinks.com - live schedule, special offers*, and our 🌶️links!Our Website - Leave us a message, articles, and sexy products3 Ways to get your question on our show:RECORD it on our website at: https://swingeruniversity.com/contact/EMAIL a recorded voice note to: [email protected]: (916) 538-0482 and leave a voicemail.* We get a commission if you decide to purchase through our links, at no cost to you.
Transcript
We have to talk about something we've been genuinely excited about for months, and our patrons actually got a preview of this already. Jamaica! Yes, we are going back, and actually, we have a great offer for you guys. Yeah, it's Swingcation. It's October 11th through the 18th at Hedonism 2. And if you don't know what Swingcation is, it's pretty easy. Swinger plus kink plus vacation. It's a hosted group with real structure, workshops, lectures, real conversations with experts who are passionate about bringing and bridging that gap between the swinger world and the kink world.
And we're not just going as attendees. we're going as featured presenters, which is exciting. We'll be leading sessions. So if you come, we actually get to hang out with you. Which brings up something we should mention. When you use our code, yes, we got a code, you're not just getting a discount, you're getting the signature swing experience, which means $100 off per person, up to $200 per room, but it also means that we make time for you. An exclusive breakfast, lunch, cocktail hour, or one-hour and one time with us directly, plus more surprise benefits.
Here's something that's really unique. You could actually contribute by hosting a discussion or running a Skillshare. I know it's scary, but if you have something that you want to contribute, that's a big part of why this event is so special. Everyone there has something to bring to the table. All right, details. If you book before April 25th, you save $400. Plus, they gave us that special code that gets you an additional $200, and the special code is SWINGERU-VIP. So book through TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinkie. That's T-I-C-K-E-T, the number four, play.com forward slash S-W-I-N-K-Y.
And use our code at checkout. And you guys, if you have any questions about the event, the resort, or what to expect, just reach out. I mean, we're here for you. We're happy to help. So once again, TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky, the code SwingerU-VIP. We really want to see you there. Welcome to Swinger University, your horizontal enrichment program. Taking you back to those experimental years. Here are your hosts, Ed and Phoebe. Hi, this is Ed. And this is Phoebe.
All right, today we're going to talk about feelings, all the feels, rejection, jealousy, mind fucking, zombie feelings, zombie feelings, and zombies have feelings and the hokey pokey. We also get more personal and share some of our feelings and personal growth in our swinging journey. A little bit about us. And actually, I'm going to interrupt again. Whoa. This is our 69th episode. What? So we are recording 69 right now. Wow.
I didn't know I was going to get up and personal on 69 yep we're gonna get all up and personal which is exactly what 69 is all about very very in your face uh yes it's all about the face it's all about the face the question why do it our biggest reason was to have more sexual experiences, to watch others having sex, me in particular, to get to watch Phoebe having sex. I mean, I enjoy watching her have sex, whether it's with me or with anybody. It's hot. I love it. And did you have any other reasons? Were those your main two reasons?
Well, I think some of the other reasons, I didn't have a lot of sexual experience going into our relationship. Handful of experiences. Of partners, meaning different partners. Yes, not times that I'd had sex, but previous partners. Right. I had five partners. Yes. Not, not times that I'd had sex, but previous partners. So I had five partners, which is not unusual because some people are together since high school and they only have one. I mean, we've run into so many people where it's like, that's the only one.
And, and a lot of those people are now in the lifestyle because they're like, well, we've only had sex with one person.
So we want to try some, something different right yeah that was that was motivation for me and i'm i'm a really horny guy i really like sex i enjoy sex i think about it all the time i enjoy it i enjoy the experience i enjoy the thoughts of the experiences so for me i was sold it wait i get to have more sex yes typical you know for a nice healthy young man yeah i'm not sure that qualifies anymore but i'll take For me, it was a question that went unanswered for a very long time. Yeah. Years. Yeah. Years. And here's a little window into my progression.
You know, when I first met Ed, I remember him saying, let's watch porn together i'm like ew that's like what what do you mean ew i go that's something you do in private you do that by yourself and he's like in a dark closet why so so i didn't like watching porn with other people so you heard our, I know we talked about this in one of our episodes, the, the share your wife party.
If you, if you can imagine, or if you go back to then find that episode where it was like a high school dance and there was porn, you know, people are lined up against the walls and there was porn playing on six TVs in the room.
It was extremely uncomfortable because it was only like the first or second event we'd ever been to right so here i am in public watching or porn is surrounding me on six televisions and i'm like you are definitely watching porn with other people like a whole crowd and it was like like close up like the whole penis and vagina filled the entire screen kind of porn yeah that kind of yeah live sex i found very fascinating in the beginning but it was uncomfortable to see and i think that was mostly just because i who's used to seeing live sex other than the partner that you're with and even then as a woman you're not really seeing a whole lot because you're on your back unless you're bi and you get that experience of being able to to see another woman's body right or or you're on top of a man but and even then you're because the man's genitals are in front of them uh we got we get to see a lot of things yeah um because women's genitals are in front of them, we get to see a lot of things.
Yeah. Because women's genitals are underneath them. Yep. Like, you can't even see your own vagina. Not without a mirror. Not without a mirror or a video camera. Yeah.
So also, when I first met Ed, having sex with the lights on was really uncomfortable it's so weird to think how far i've come in 10 years oh yeah yeah oh my god and and i was you know broad daylight all the lights on i don't want covers clothes in the way i want to see everything i was like and then oral sex for me was still uncomfortable it was very hard to relax i was not a fan to this day i i will i will still take a dick over oral any day i'm Thank you. I will, I will still take a dick over oral any day. I'm, how do you say? I like it more, but it's not something that's like my go-to.
I won't say, I'm dying for oral. Come give me oral. You know, let's do 69.
I'm like, nah, just give me a know this episode i'm just saying what else was oh watching ed kiss and have sex with someone else was really uncomfortable unless i was literally like right there next to him or if he was having sex i was like down underneath like right under his ass watching the full penetration once again another irony getting the full-on penis penetrating vagina close-up shot you just don't like it on tv i just don't like it on tv you much prefer it in your face yes yeah i don't something about because it's you and you know and i could imagine that's what it looks like inside of me and so i was having kind of this out of body experience right so i was imagining you were inside of me but i could actually see it that that's kind of cool yeah that's why i liked it i actually i like i actually enjoy watching uh porn that we've made or porn that i'm in um there's something kind of cool about watching yourself fuck uh-huh and going i was there i remember that i there's got to be some kind of a chemical memory connection to that experience and the pleasure that you felt and then watching it again kind of triggering those those same memories yeah yeah And recently, for the first time, we filmed a lot and took a lot of photos of sex acts with some very good friends of ours who are very, very comfortable with.
And we because we've just made that a role to not take photos or videos because, you know, friends come and go. People are in and out of the lifestyle. You never know how long they're going to be there. Yeah, the witness protection program thing. Right. So I just never fully trusted that, you know, that type of friendship. It had to be a pretty long-standing friendship before I went there. Because you never know where it's going to end up. Right. Ask Paris Hilton or... Right. Pamela Anderson. Yeah. Kim Kardashian.
they've all got them anyway so I agree watching the photos and videos after yeah it was really fucking hot yeah yeah what else uh talking about sex was uncomfortable and awkward I do remember that was difficult for me now look at me I'm talking about sex on a podcast how crazy is that right i remember some of those those early awkward conversations and it was like why do i have to talk about it because it'll be better if we talk about it that's why like if we don't talk about it can't you just don't just read my mind just like look in my eyes and just know what I need?
I am very talented in many ways, but that is not one of my skills reading minds. And reliving the moment out loud with Ed was uncomfortable. Right. Talking about it afterwards. Talking about it afterwards. And I think that was in the beginning when we were playing and we, in the moment it was great, but then afterwards it was not great. Okay. Can we talk about October for a second? Oh my God. Yeah. I've been waiting for this. We were invited to be guest speakers for two engagements on a six-star crystal cruise ship with 310 lifestyle couples.
And it sails from Montreal to Boston during the peak foliage season. I'm super excited. And honestly, I'm really nervous. Yeah, it's kind of a version of like a swinger ted talk that we're gonna have to do oh my god i know and more importantly if you know the brand it's llv luxury lifestyle vacations you may have seen them and they're sexy playmakers with their fun red hats.
This ship crystal symphony is classy butler service for every single room michelin rated restaurants full spa clothing optional sensual playrooms like everything theme nights and international dj so it's luxury and nudity oh man this is gonna be great the bottom line is we want you there with us it's 310 couples and like all their vacations they book up fast they really do their vacations are extremely popular so please come with us and in order to find it all you have to do is go to our swingerlinks.com and look for the llv sensual voyage we hope you'll join us yeah and i think i think some of that was then it was real and you had to process through the feelings, the feelings that you had started to come back.
Yes. Yes. And because when you're in the moment, all the endorphins and mind you, we've mentioned this, we didn't drink alcohol, do drugs, anything for like the first three years we were swinging and we were swinging about every month.
And so, I mean, just the endorphins and all the hormones that are racing through your body in the moment it feels fucking good and then the next day you might have a little bit of fallout you're like that's when the judgments come in and the shoulds and the don'ts and the programming that you had as a kid and society puts on you and you go right wait a minute you know that was wrong what do you mean that felt great no but think about this oh no it was so fun and you got the little devil and the angel talking to you and then you got to figure all that shit out yep i'm envious of people that never had this struggle but that was my struggle so if you're there it's real yes yes exhibitionism though i will say was has always been fun for me so as much as i didn't like um sex and seeing sex in public i liked the excitement of doing something that was breaking a rule right and was erotic that got me really turned on so I discovered that in college which was awesome later later in college because I went back to college and what was the last thing let's see the closer we are during play the more fun I'll see it as fun.
I guess maybe i should just say it's different it lends a different experience it's a different flavor because there's more recently we were on two separate beds and while i was fully in the zone and enjoying my experience on a separate bed, you were in the same spot on the other bed. Yeah. But I will say that was a different experience, which was great and fine and fabulous. But I didn't see anything that was going on, very little, because I wasn't over there. I was in five feet away on the other bed. Yeah. And I think you miss out on some of the other sensory experiences that are going on.
You don't get the, the rocking of the bed and you're like, Oh yeah. Right. Like there's something fun, especially when the pace changes and all of a sudden it's like, wham. And you're like, oh, she's really getting it now or she's giving it to him. Right. So, you know, there's a lot to that and the noises are much closer. You can hear things and you can hear what people are saying. Yep. You know, if they're whispering things. Someone squirts and you get sprayed. That's always fun. A little splash zone going. Yes.
Oh, oh my gosh the other thing i want to talk about is comfort-based limits in in these feelings that we're having so i'm kind of moving off well no i'm still staying in our kind of progression and comfort comfort-based limits is a term that I'm stealing from sex on the fringe they have a blog and you should check them out sex on the fringe.com i really liked how they define this and the comfort base limits for me would change the party, the dynamics, the people who were there, how I was feeling. Yeah, what you were comfortable with.
Yeah, and it became challenging because those limits would change and be confusing for you because what worked at one party didn't work at the next party. Yeah. So it was a bit challenging to navigate that in the beginning when you're testing your legs and trying to figure out how everything works.
And I guess the one, while it was sometimes challenging to know what was on the table at that particular moment, at the opposite end of that it also opened possibilities up for play because it wasn't part of the limits last time so we had some really amazing experiences where it was like well that happened that happened fast like we weren't going into it for that but we were both comfortable doing doing it. And so we would just, you know, nod in agreement. Nobody felt pressured. It just felt right.
And so we would try new things and experiment and got some really fun knowledge out of it, if you will.
Right and watching ed kiss someone passionately was more uncomfortable in the beginning than actually watching him have sex with somebody which was weird to me because i can completely understand now the no kissing rule we never had that rule going in but i almost made it a rule because kissing does seem very intimate it can I don't know I don't know how else to describe it but it it was a trigger and when Ed was like full-on just make out session mama eating the woman's face and she was eating his face i was like okay you know part of it too i think is because that type of connection wasn't happening with the other guy and so i'm basically just standing there going like hello over here yeah so i think just that feeling of being left out was probably more um you know what was really going on and i think in general that's most of where the discomfort has been in some of the experiences that we've had and those those feelings of being at least feeling like you were being left out like yeah somebody's at a party i don't feel like i'm in the party right or it looks like everyone's having a great time i'm not what am i doing wrong what are they doing right is do they all have this secret how long have they known each other is, are they all high?
Like a myriad of things are going through my head trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah. The oral thing, I talked a little bit about that earlier.
I will say in my experience that I don't, I have not had a lot of good oral in my life it's it's tricky it is tricky because each woman is very different oh yeah and but i will say i have a bigger success rate with giving me oral and i think it's because they're very sensual yeah and they take their time and they kind of dance around the entire vulva they don't just go and attack the clit right away they don't just stick a finger the the um the fingerprint on fingers is actually that that's how sensitive I am. It can be very rough and abrasive to my clit if it's touched too soon and too early.
It feels like sandpaper. That's how sensitive it is. And we're not talking like Mason's hands that are rough. You know, it's not sandpaper. No, just an average hand. Right.
So, yeah, so that's me uh same room sex is more comfortable for us and for me versus separate room i just like it it's more intimate um i can see everything don't feel like you're missing out once again right you know you're you're more in the experience and you're more involved with what's going on and right you know you don't go hey i hear something that sounds fun in the other room but i can't see what it is yeah but i will say in the beginning 10 years ago remember i did not want to have same room sex because i couldn't i didn't think i could watch you having sex right and I didn't want to know about it I didn't want to see it I didn't want to hear about it it was too much for me to think about I was like all I can focus on is me having sex with somebody else that's not you I can't even focus on you having sex with someone like that was just too overwhelming right and we had to really talk through that because you're like that doesn't work and so and and we realized we're we are not good with the storytelling later and i thought well i don't want you to come back and recount all this stuff that's just gonna be way worse right that's that's 10 times worse so we might as well just be in the same room and we'll figure it out and you leave details out because it's hard to remember the whole thing oh yeah you always feel like yeah yeah it's just better to observe it for yourself exactly um missionary sex i thought was more intimate and i don't i wrote this down a long time ago and i can hardly even remember that feeling but apparently that was more intimate i could care less now i know that doesn't even register that's crazy and then of course watching ed flirt was also weird right and uncomfortable it's like that it's exactly like kissing right it's very intimate and it's you know yeah you're trying to get in someone else's pants verbally right right i was like wait what and i i will say I've, I did not do a lot of flirting in my life.
You said you didn't do a lot of flirting in your life, but I don't believe that. I may have done more flirting than I realized. I, I think you have, but I have not. Maybe I just thought I wasn't very good at it because I didn't get laid.
you just weren't a closer which i don't know how you weren't with all that charm i'm much better now than i was that's all i can say i have i have gained knowledge and power yes so that's some of what is about us and where we've been But we will continue to talk a little bit more about that as we go into jealousy, all the feels, the zombie feelings, mind-fucking, rejection, and the hokey-pokey.
Here's why we sail on virgin it's adults only no kids screaming at breakfast no family buffet lines just champagne at noon late night pool parties and people who actually want to be there the vibe think? Think boutique hotel that happens to float. Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you'd actually pay for on land. Plus, when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let's just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous. No wondercruiser's here. Just your people. Jealousy's a really interesting one.
You and I haven't, I don't think we've ever really felt like true jealousy. I mean, the things that you've mentioned about watching me have sex or engage with another woman felt uncomfortable but it it wasn't jealousy it was missing out like i want a piece of cake too why am i not getting what you're getting yeah yeah or even just you know how come everybody in the room is having an orgasm and I'm not like, what's going on? Yeah. What were they passing out? Yeah. Yeah. The interesting thing though, is, you know, jealousy has a, a, a rational feeling behind it.
The emotion's hard to describe, but it's based on that fear of losing your partner. That's what it all kind of boils down to. It's not a negative emotion, but it's an insecurity. And so that feeling comes out of that feeling of insecurity that you're... I'm not enough. I'm not getting something. Something's missing. Right. Yeah. That reactive jealousy will typically occur during swinging and, and can be tied to low self-esteem or just, you know, like we said, feeling left out. Right.
So this obviously is where you're talking to your partner, expressing your feelings, your fears, expectations of the night or, you know, moving forward. And as always, you know, of course, we hope you're being mindful of your partner's emotions. Yeah. Yeah. You've always got to think about your partner and how they're feeling and be empathetic to those feelings. I didn't have the same feelings watching you engage with other play partners. Not the same feelings that you had when you watched me. So it wasn't balanced in that way. Right.
But I empathize with you and I, you know, toned it down or changed my behavior to kind of accommodate that. Right. Right. I remember that, which was really nice. That was, yeah.
See, that's what makes you a great partner yeah yeah so yeah your partner can support you while you get through that you know transition of feeling wow that's really triggering me that's that's a really sensitive thing for me to see or hear can we just maybe not or you can tone this down or do this or not or not touch somebody this way or that way just so i can you know and you warm up to it yeah and and things do change so don't think of this as like a permanent no no no yeah as phoebe was saying now she really enjoyed me giving it yes from across the room or even just sitting there in a room full of people.
And I'll even shout across the room, fuck her, fuck her hard. and one of the things that helped us with kind of that fear of missing out or that disconnection that you know not feeling part of what was going on was same bed play and frequent, you know, touch between the two of us and kissing. Reassurance. Yeah. And it's comforting to know that you're not disconnected from each other. You're still involved. You still are part of that whole experience. Exactly. So if you're feeling that way, just, just get closer to your partner, like be more involved.
Um, it, it's got plenty of benefits too, because you've got four bodies all touching or six or eight, however many you can get on the bed and it can be a lot of fun and you don't feel left out yes all the feels all the feels are gonna be a bunch of stuff feeling incompetent not getting it, or understanding how swinging works, the reasons behind it, and how others do it so seemingly effortlessly. Right. The confusion of dealing with the uncertainty of people and the lack of commitment. Flaky people, right? Yeah.
People are in it for different reasons reasons don't know how to communicate they're they're on a wing and a prayer they just jump in they jump back out like all the reasons right so everybody was in it for completely different reasons and none of them seemed to match up with why we were doing it yeah at the time i i just assumed everyone was all on the same page and that is completely not the case it's right all over the board for everything think of a reason people are doing it for that reason exactly some people are only in it because of a specific kink so or a specific checklist so you've got everything you gotta just figure that out yeah uh you might feel undesirable because of your body issue.
There might be body issue. Everybody's got body image issues. Yes. Men and women. And it doesn't matter what you look like. I mean, you could see the hottest couple in that party. And they both probably have some body issue right and as we've said before um it's that inner sexiness that really is the most sexy that just shines through right any body image that just makes people so hot and desirable yeah so the people who are getting out of their heads and just having a good time yep they're the ones that are winning yeah Let's go.
so hot and desirable yeah so the people who are getting out of their heads and just having a good time yep they're the ones that are winning yeah yeah but you know it takes you a little while to to get there and that'll change over time i dress more slutty now and it took a little while to get there um feeling left out on balance in the playroom or in a hotel room right we have we've had experiences like that for sure um it's really a couple really weird ones like lured into a room for one premise and come to find out that that's not what was going to happen and i ended up sitting on a bed watching yeah and that was pretty shitty yeah i didn't know that was going to happen that was like not how it was going all night long and then all of a sudden it was like a bait and switch it was weird yeah it was like i think we just got taken advantage of that was weird and i was a little mad at the moment but i i i handled it pretty well i got got out of my head about it and was like well you know it happens yeah uh disappointing others like your partner or other couples right no you don't want to play with another couple you don't want to feel bad you don't want them to have a good night but you want to be true to yourself right how do you communicate that heck even reading through messages from people on you know a swing site you're yeah you don't want to hurt people's feelings you don't want to disappoint them but at the same time you have no interest in playing with them right so what do you do how do you how do you deal with that i know and you know be nice be gentle let them down easy but be true to yourself you don't have to take one for the team so well and disappointing you early on that was a very very big concern for me and a huge hurdle i kept that was a big big topic that we talked about a lot I kept saying I don't want to disappoint you I just didn't want to ever hold you back from being who you were and I didn't want to be the cause for you not having a good time but I also needed to be true to myself and so we really had to talk talk through that.
And you kept reassuring me and kept saying, well, you know, I'm still being me, but, you know, you're not holding me back. We're doing this journey together. I'm having this experience with you together. And so I will go at your pace. Yeah.
I'll jog a little bit and then we'll get into the full-on sprint and you know what honestly you've always done that you've always walked at my pace and you always do jog at my pace even when we go jogging and i do appreciate that so i don't know why i was so worried that you know you wouldn't do that while you're swinging because it's scary that's why I know there's so so many things going on in your head and you know it's it's that risk of disappointing your partner but more specifically doing something that might cause them to not be with you anymore because you're not meeting their needs yeah that's scary that is scary and at some point you kind of just have to let that go because they're either with you or they're not right and you just you can't live every day you know trying to make everybody happy as long as you're communicating, then you should be on the same page.
So work it, work on it. Work it. Appeasement, saving face or going along by doing things you don't really feel comfortable doing. Yeah. This is that converse of disappointing. So instead of disappointing, you appease.
And in a sense, some people have the example of taking one for the team or you know getting into a situation that you're just not comfortable with and and i did that and it felt shitty in the beginning and that was part of the like why am i doing this right this doesn't really feel good and you don't really know i mean until kind of till you jump in like how is it supposed to feel i mean it's and you know you're gonna make these kinds of mistakes yeah you're gonna take one for the team and go you know that in hindsight that wasn't such a good idea i i'm actually processing a lot of that recently in terms of you know finding that four-way match and you know maybe I do take one for the team maybe it's not that bad um and I try and think think of the silver lining in it maybe there's a something I can get out of that experience.
Yeah. Hmm me more we've had conversations when we were at um the the nudist resort and that that older gentleman oh yeah oh yes and uh with his with his neck brace he just had oh yes car accident oh my god he was very sexy very charming oh yes elderly man and and i i say elderly you know we're not We'll see you next time.
he just had oh yes car accident oh my god he was very sexy very charming oh yes elderly man and and i i say elderly you know we're not spring chickens either but he was 20 years yeah at least 20 years older than us um and he looked good he would yeah he was in good shape um and his wife was not in as good a shape right you know, not too far out of the norm. She looked very earth mother, right? If you picture it like an older hippie, that's what she looked like. And I was like, hmm, let me think about that. Would that be bad? Right. Would that be, that could be fun.
Maybe in the right situation, in the right moment, maybe if she had something sexy on or we were dancing or something. I don't know. Right. You never know. You never know in the right situation. Yeah. So my personal journey with disappointing Ed was a definite limiting factor. I was the brakes.
And that's usually what happens yeah in um you know swinging the woman is usually the brakes um as women we're conditioned to be pleasers so uh we're it's it's hard to say no uh some women never had had that never grew up that way i've talked to a few women they're They're like, fuck, I've said no my entire life. I'm like, wow, more power to you. That's freaking awesome. I did not grow up like that.
So, you know, there's this learning growth, personal growth thing that's going on while we're swinging, which is part of also why I love it so much because I'm constantly learning and growing and expanding.
Yeah you even had some resentment about having to be the brakes right it's like yeah why am i always driving the bus i have to be the brakes why can't it just be easy why can't i just jump in like everybody else which seemed so easy for them why like why am i having such a yeah then i got mad and i was like why is it so fucking hard for me and i got mad and the process and the assumption that you went through too was it's so easy for everybody else but we've had conversations where it looked easy it wasn't easy they were going through the exact same things it's just you you didn't see behind the yes you didn't see what was going on those late night conversations that they had yep after the kids go to sleep kind of thing.
Yes. And now I know. And now you know. Ten years later that I know they were not on the same page or as with it as I thought they were. and you may want to ask how you know how do you deal with an emotion when your partner says they want to swing you know this is like another feeling you know oh my god what the heck is that um you might feel like you're not good enough right why why does he want to have sex with someone else yeah that came up i think for us think, for us. For her. Yeah. Is it not good? It's a blow to your self-esteem and your ego.
It can be, depending on how it's presented and how the individual that you're talking to is processing that. Everybody's going to react differently.
Your reaction was, I thought about it when I was in my 20s and didn't have the opportunity to to do it right and of course there were a bunch of other feelings that went along with it so right you kind of gave an in right but there was more to it and obviously yeah it took but still you're like well why now and why you know there's always that why now you know so yeah these are all the feels all the different feels of things that are going to come up yeah zombie feelings i like this one the zombie feeling oh my god so the zombie feeling is a is a resurface of emotions right you had a great night you're feeling good you're high 24 hours later yep michael jackson and thriller happens and you're like what the fuck where'd that emotion come from i was just having a good time now why do i feel like where's the jealousy why is that anger why am i feeling like needy or why this or why that right because your body's come down off of all the hormones and alcohol and drugs or whatever you did and now you're really processing like what the fuck yeah you you let it it sinks in yeah and it's real and then it comes now you have to deal with bubbling up what that was exactly and the things that you saw that you didn't remember seeing or they mentioned that happened and you're like oh yeah that did happen oh i didn't think about that yes yes because you don't remember everything that happened that night until the next day or two or three days.
In fact, just today we were having a conversation about an interaction that we had. And I said, I'm feeling this way. I don't completely have it figured out yet. It's probably going to take me another day for my brain to kind of work through it and in the background because i'm not just thinking i'm working i'm not like you know belaboring i'm not all stressed out about it but i know things are going on in the background but i do know that this and that and i need this right like i said I need more hugs and snuggles today.
And so, you know, there was a thing that happened and I thought, well, okay, it'll get worked out. I know I'm being a little vague, but it was difficult for me to communicate to Ed, but I needed to communicate some it right because i didn't have it all figured out i just said it kind of seems like this and it kind of seems like that but on another day i'll be a little more specific but in the meantime could you give me more hugs and he's like absolutely yeah so you know that's how we put a pin in it and we'll come back to it. Put a pin in it, come back.
Yeah, you just and then you process that stuff at night and then the next day you wake up and ding. Yeah. At least that's how it works for me. I don't know if it works like that for everybody else. Yeah, because you'll have an epiphany. Something will finally click and it will all line up and then it'll make sense. And you go, oh, now I remember it was what so-and-so said or it was the way that that happened or something. Right, right. Yes. Yes. I still ask you this question time to time. Was she good? Was she better? What'd she feel like?
What did her pussy feel like right this is the that age old concern is her pussy tighter yeah like all women ask this it's it's a it's an a it's a hilarious question i don't know that i've ever had a really tight pussy like i that you know you read about it they talk about it in porn mythical i couldn't even get in there it's like yeah i haven't experienced that if you have one of those magic pussies that that is so tight we would i'd love to experiment for scientific purposes to see what that was really like but um for me the there are subtle differences right between different women and people have stronger key goals and others but it's still okay so this is the best way to think about it okay go into your kitchen and lube your hands up with olive oil and grab a cucumber or a banana okay what happens it goes shooting out of your hands right okay that slippery feeling uh-huh that's what it feels like oh so you can squeeze as much as you want.
All it's going to do is push it out. Oh, yeah. You never really get, it's not like a hand, right, where you can grip. Right. It's a much softer grip. Oh. So it's not, have you ever milked a cow or a goat? Yes, it's been a long time. Do you know how you squeeze at the top of the index? Yeah. You squeeze at the top of the nipple. And then you roll your hand down. It does not. So it sounds like it does not feel like that. No. With like a hand. Because the vagina isn't a sphincter muscle like an anus. Right. Right. It doesn't close off. Right.
It's more of a tunnel a canal right and so all of that squeezing is it's because all those muscles the kegel muscles i just saw the diagram again the other day they're down along the bottom they some of them run up a little bit right uh into the body but not they're not around inside the vagina but it's a very smooth textured non-textured slippery surface so for for me the feeling is just warm and slippery and it you know and it's it's like a very gentle hug just just kind of caresses okay i'm feeling much better about this now yeah now that i've got this visual i'm gonna go look at those kegel muscles again because this makes a lot of sense now that it's not you know it's not going to squeeze a hand.
It's not going to squeeze like a sphincter. And if it's different for somebody, please write us in and tell us how it's different. Tell me how it's different. But in general, that's been my experience. Hey there, podcast listeners. You've been tuning into our episodes. But have you ever wondered about the steamy details of our adventures or maybe hungry for some sultry, erotic stories? Well, guess what? We've got something special just for you. Our exclusive Patreon page. It's like a VIP pass to the saucier side of our world.
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I may not have to ever ask that question again then yeah it's it's there you go really not like sticking your dick in a vice it's i just haven't had that experience okay so you uh mind fucking you were on to mind fucking yeah and and so this is this is the whole concept the that feeling of wrapping yourself up twisting yourself up in your own mind I don't just stop thinking about it so much yes yes and you can cause yourself a lot of mental stress if you're constantly just trying to figure it out i will admit that i like to move thing through things very very quickly i don't like to sit on them and so but i've learned over the years that sometimes my emotional body needs to catch up to my intellectual right body my mind um there are some things i i can't think myself i just have to kind of wait for my mind to process them or my emotional body to process them it's it just takes time i i try to force it right and move it along quickly but sometimes i can't yeah and so the trick is just don't don't dwell too long on the thoughts um we never even would have gotten into swinging that first event if we hadn't finally just said we don't know what's going to happen we can't predict what's going to happen we've never done it before so there's no possible way we would could predict everything that's going to happen we just have to go exactly and just just like you know when you're out backpacking out the mountains what do you do well you you bring enough gear with you to survive in case something bad happens so you go into your swinging situation the first time have an exit strategy yep you know you have a a signal a safe word with your partner and it's like you know any one of us can pull the ripcord and we bail and if you've got that then anything could happen at the party and you've got each other's backs and you can get out yeah and i'm making this sound like a hostage situation i know get out run don't be confused with the zombie reference earlier this is it's not all that bad and and i think i think i'm saying this because you when we first got into it and we've heard from a number of people it's so overwhelming because so many bad things could happen and it's like yeah but they don't yeah no it doesn't work like that and if, if you'll stop yourself from thinking that way, you might actually have a good time and you'll enjoy the experience.
And this is why a lot of couples like never get out of soft swap.
This is why a lot of couples, you know, have a no kissing rule because what if it's better what if it's you know something and you can you can come up with all kinds of rational reasons why it would be a bad thing and the long and short of it is it's usually never as bad as what you've pictured it just right it just doesn't work that way and 90 percent of the reason why it works out because swingers are really nice people like genuinely nice open open-minded uh compassionate empathetic in touch with their sexuality people so you know they're not going to pressure people to do stuff generally these are all generalizations and and you're going to have a good experience why because everybody's there to have a good time yeah it's fun exactly everybody's supposed to have fun rejection is another one of those feelings that feels crappy you know sex is not always going to happen when you get together with someone Whether it's a a date at someone's house with another couple it may not happen it you may go into an orgy room it may not happen right or you have sex and it sucks that has happened yes that happened a lot and which again came up i was like well then why am i doing it well you know i discovered later years later the answer to that question was it was i enjoyed i enjoyed all the other things about it sex for me wasn't the the goal because that was too much pressure on one person that i'd met on the dance floor that night that we went to an orgy room right and had said how the hell is he supposed to know what my buttons are i mean i've learned to communicate things which helps enhance that experience i say i really like this this and then this doesn't work and then is a no-go zone, you know, and I give the like three to five instructions and that's it.
Right. And then, you know, I usually have a great time, but, um, you know, not every interaction will be great, but generally, you know, you do have a good time. Yeah. Yeah. if you're new you you tend to get passed over why because you're soft swap and everybody's looking for a full swap and this is just an an example um but you also kind of lack that confidence you're still that you know newly born deer kind of wobbling out into the the world You don't have it all figured out.
You look nervous, you feel nervous, and people can see that and they don't know if it's because you're not into it or you're just new nervous. Like, oh my, I've never done this before. I've never touched another man's penis. You know, that kind of nervous. Right. The great thing about being new is it's a moment of connection with other swingers. So everybody's had the first time, you know, we all went through it. And if you open with that, oh, this is our first event. Or we're so new to this, we're really nervous. And then you have that conversation, right? Just put it out on the table.
Own your feelings. And other people will go, oh, yeah, I remember when that happened to me, and this is what we did to get past it. You'll learn a trick. You'll learn how other people dealt with it. They may be able to get you over it like that. You'll make an instant connection with them. And now you're not new. Right. And you've just met a new potential play partner. Exactly. So it's great. Like being new, don't worry about it too much. Right.
Although we did run into a couple recently at a party that said they were really thankful that we had a conversation with them because they felt that when they disclosed that they were new and soft swap that people wouldn't talk to them and give them the time of day because they didn't want to play with soft swap people which i i don't understand that that's not us um but i i will tell you that that's that happens a lot of people that go full don't want to do soft and i i don't i i understand that that is out there but i don't understand that doesn't make sense for me that doesn't make sense for us i mean i i makes no sense at all i i think it's all great i i could have soft and not have penetration it's it's fabulous there's so many other things you can do it's so yeah there's so many who's to say you know you have soft swap with the new couple great they have a great time you go home you make a good connection you see him at the next party maybe the second time they feel comfortable enough with you to go full i mean like why right why pass up a potential good thing it makes no sense to me well and i think some of it is they don't want to invest the time i don't know in in trying to cultivate or in the hopes that they'll eventually get to be full swap.
But you can't go into it that way. I wonder, though, if those people are just have different goals where the goal is less intimate connections with people and it's more just fucking a hole. Right. The sport fuck. Yeah. So you'll have that out there, different people with different goals. And there is also this, the, the issue with new couples, if they're that new and not necessarily having the best reasons for getting into swinging in the first place, there are a lot of people who try it to save a marriage that can be a really messy evening.
And I think a lot of the more experienced people don't want to step in that. And I get that because we've seen some of those kinds of things go down, but that all that comes down to having a good conversation with them ahead of time and getting that vibe off of them as to whether they're comfortable and having a good time. Watch how they interact with each other, and then you can pick up on whether it's going to be a good time or a really scary time. Yes. Yes.
So your rejection, you know, when you're new, it's probably going to be a lot in the beginning, potentially, you know, more often than later as you get, you know, into it. But you'll, you'll wonder, is it us? Is it them? Does it, does it matter? No, just don't stop connecting. Just keep making those connections. And the long and the short of it is there, there's so many factors that go into go into attraction. Things you can do to kind of game the system, if you will, or at least use the system. Be confident. Confidence is sexy.
And so if you go in, you got a good attitude and positive and you're happy and you put off good energy and they can see that your relationship is solid and that you're having fun and you're sexy people with each other, then that's going to be attractive. They're like, oh, they look like fun.
So you can move the odds in your favor by taking up some of those techniques of confidence and communication and being a good interviewer right tell tell me about your your last swinging experience if i if i only had that question to ask as a newbie that would have been perfect oh yeah right i know but oh well we kind to still do that now which is kind of fun it works it does all right the last feeling is the hokey pokey the hokey pokey where you've got people you cannot figure them out the left foot is in and then the right is in the left foot's in the left foot's out the right foot's in the right foot's out hokey pokey right so yeah it's confusing um you get these unbalanced experiences um you know you think everyone's on the same page but someone's in someone's out and you're trying to figure it's this weird it's annoying i hate that part yeah it's it's that inconsistent yeah feeling from them or even inconsistent uh experiences where every time you talk to them it's like a different couple yeah yeah that's that's weird yeah but it happens I don't know if i should say it's weird it's not weird it's just disappointing because you may have had a really great first time experience interaction conversation or play and then something changed right with them their dynamic nothing changed with you you were consistent you were complimentary you followed up you did all the things that you would normally do you were polite and but something with their dynamic changed I don't know.
thing changed with you you were consistent you were complimentary you followed up you did all the things that you would normally do you were polite and but something with their dynamic changed for whatever reason and you'll never find out it and then they're like cold towards you and you're like well i guess that's no longer a thing and it's disappointing it it can be very disappointing and you're like oh most of that is what you know back to what we were talking about earlier what did i do what happened what yeah something that we said yeah no it's not you it's them yeah something happened and i just don't feel comfortable with it anymore and you have to let it go exactly so you're gonna have these un unbalanced experiences changing limits changing situations sometimes people will be soft sometimes they'll be full and that sometimes changes based on um what's going on with the woman right right maybe she wants to play but she can't have penetration because she's on her period or she's got something medical going on so but she still wants to interact and can do soft.
So that's why we like to be flexible because you could still have a good time. Yeah. Well, how do you communicate these changes in the moment? How, how do you get that point across to your partner? Who's your wingman wing woman? Yeah. Yeah.
And the hokey pokey that we were doing in the beginning was you know which rule are we doing now because what would work and one party didn't work at the next party because i don't know for some reason it was different for me i was like that part doesn't work anymore i don't know i don't know why but poor ed was like wait we're doing what now or we're not doing what we did oh okay we're doing something different yes so in the beginning just be patient with each other and everyone else as they try to kind of figure it out yeah yeah remember this is a journey of self with your partner be kind to yourself and take a break to process your emotions if you need to thoughts and feelings won't always sound rational goodness knows i've i have said many a time to ed i'm going to say something that won't make sense And I'm fully aware this will sound confusing or conflicting.
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