Want to send us a message? Dive into the complexities of the swinging lifestyle as we explore the controversial topic of Taking one for the team . How do you solve the four-way connection problem? In this eye-opening episode, we share personal experiences and survey insights from a wide spectrum of lifestylers, unraveling the intricacies of consent, boundaries, and the art of saying no or yes in the swinging community. Key Topics:Team No : Unyielding standards, the evolution of preferences, and the power of saying no confidently.Team Yes : Embracing enthusiastic and lukewarm yeses, the beauty of diverse experiences, and the flexibility of boundaries.Keeping Score: The controversial practice of tallying encounters, the potential pitfalls, and ways to navigate this delicate territory.IOUs and Obligations: Exploring the thin line between consent and obligation, the impact on relationships, and the importance of open communication.Respect and Guilt: Unpacking feelings of resentment, guilt, and the role of respect in the self, relationships, and with play partners. Call-to-Action:Explore the nuances of the swinging lifestyle with us! Like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments below. What are your experiences with Team No and Team Yes ? Let s continue this conversation and build a community where open communication and respect thrive. #SwingingLifestyle #ConsentInSwinging #OpenCommunication #RelationshipAgreements #PodcastDiscussion Support the showWant More?👀 Watch on YouTube: YouTube ShowFull video versions and interactive live episodes!Bonus episodes, exclusive content, and 🌶️Extras: https://www.patreon.com/SwingerUniversity 🛳️🎉Looking for lifestyle events in your area? T4P is the go-to directory for clubs, parties, and resort events. Browse now at Ticket4Play.com Custom SU T-shirts and gear: Our Amazon StoreSwingerLinks.com - live schedule, special offers*, and our 🌶️links!Our Website - Leave us a message, articles, and sexy products3 Ways to get your question on our show:RECORD it on our website at: https://swingeruniversity.com/contact/EMAIL a recorded voice note to: [email protected]: (916) 538-0482 and leave a voicemail.* We get a commission if you decide to purchase through our links, at no cost to you.
Transcript
We have to talk about something we've been genuinely excited about for months, and our patrons actually got a preview of this already. Jamaica! Yes, we are going back, and actually, we have a great offer for you guys. Yeah, it's Swingcation. It's October 11th through the 18th at Hedonism 2. And if you don't know what Swingcation is, it's pretty easy. Swinger plus kink plus vacation. It's a hosted group with real structure, workshops, lectures, real conversations with experts who are passionate about bringing and bridging that gap between the swinger world and the kink world.
And we're not just going as attendees. We're going as featured presenters, which is exciting. We'll be leading sessions. So if you come, we actually get to hang out with you. Which brings up something we should mention. When you use our code, yes, we got a code, you're not just getting a discount. You're getting the signature swing experience, which means $100 off per person, up to $200 per room, but it also means that we make time for you. An exclusive breakfast, lunch, cocktail hour, or one-hour and one time with us directly, plus more surprise benefits.
Here's something that's really unique. You could actually contribute by hosting a discussion or running a Skillshare. I know it's scary, but if you have something that you want to contribute, that's a big part of why this event is so special. Everyone there has something to bring to the table. All right, details. If you book before April 25th, you save $400. Plus, they gave us that special code that gets you an additional $200, and the special code is SWINGERU-VIP. So book through TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky. That's T-I-C-K-E-T, the number four, play.com forward slash S-W-I-N-K-Y.
And use our code at checkout. And you guys, if you have any questions about the event, the resort, or what to expect, just reach out. I mean, we're here for you. We're happy to help. So once again, TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky, the code SwingerU-VIP. We really want to see you there. Have you ever taken one for the team? Do you have sex when you don't want to because your partner does? And do you keep score? We asked swinger couples and you might be shocked at some of their answers. Welcome to Swinger University. I'm Ed. And I'm Phoebe.
Join us as we explore the exciting world of ethical non-monogamy, sexual health and sex education with an intellectual and sexy twist. Oh my gosh, this is a heated topic and I'm just dying to get into it because. And it's interesting because we've heard a couple different perspectives on this one. Yes. We've heard this term a number of times throughout our 10 years plus swinging. Yes. There was an incident that happened recently that kind of inspired this episode and us wanting to dig deeper into it. Right.
Which is why I love doing what we do, because I'm always questioning, do people like this? What's the, what's the other side to it? Right? Right. We've heard what we've heard and we know what we feel, but what does everybody else feel like? Right. So we surveyed our community and what we found was there's a team. No, don't for the team and there's a team yes do take one for the team and then there's this whole aspect of do you keep score right keeping track of who took when yeah or what and they've gotten two So you get two and this kind of equaling the scales of justice for swinging. Right.
So it was interesting. We're going to start with the team no first. Right. And it's interesting the wiggle room that the no's have and the yes's have. So let's get into the team no. For the most part, team no has this policy that anything less than an enthusiastic yes from both people, it's a no. So if everybody's not on board, no go. Although what's interesting is as they've gotten more experience, they've started to really hone in on that. And one of the reasons they get to this no point is they're just not willing to compromise. You know what?
I don't need to compromise on my sexuality anymore. Right.
And that happened for me because I didn didn't have we didn't have a lot of experience swinging i didn't know what to expect you didn't know what to expect you you do your best with the information that you have and the information that you get when you're in a situation and you have an experience and then you reassess and go pros cons yeah you know didn't really like that experience or yeah that was amazing let's do it again over time as those experiences you know progress and you catalog them then you may start to go, you know, I have filet mignon right here in front of me.
I don't have to settle for hamburger anymore. The other thing that happens with experience is couples become more confident and comfortable with just saying no. Yes. It's hard to say no. You don't want conflict. You don't want to make people feel bad.
But bad but guess what you get to a point where you're like no i don't need to say yes i don't feel the social pressure to say yes anymore i'm okay saying no and everybody should be comfortable saying no but it's hard to do it's not easy it's not easy because of the social pressure and the programming, especially for women being, um, they're taught to be people pleasers, right? We, we are connectors of a community. We bring families together. We bring people together.
We nurture and take care of people wanting everyone to feel okay is in our nature so to speak but in the swinger community I really had to let that go right because you know what I was doing a disservice to myself one of the other things that came out during this survey was people feeling like they had higher standards that they didn't feel like they needed to compromise that they had this right to be choosy the whole steak versus hamburger right like i have something good why why do i need to compromise so i'm only looking for stuff that's as good as what i'm getting or or at least approaching that, because obviously sex with your own primary partners, always better.
Yes, never going to be the same with anybody else. Right. It's always going to be best with your partner. It could be a lot of fun, but it doesn't usually equal. And what's interesting with this group, too, is that there really isn't any wiggle room on this. They were pretty much set on, nope, nerd. If it's not enthusiastic, it's a hard no. We thought about how do you kind of advance out of that or what are some of those ways so that you don't feel like you're always saying no or that you have these kind of unattainable standards when you meet other couples. Let's face it. I don't know.
I don't feel like you're always saying no, or that you have these kind of unattainable standards when you meet other couples. Let's face it, there's not a lot of supermodels running around in a lifestyle that are willing to have sex with everybody, especially us average people. So how do you kind of work through that? How do you kind of maybe expand your boundaries a little bit so that you're saying no a little bit less if you feel like it? These are just some ideas. One of the ways is flexibility with your preferences.
I know personally, my preferences have changed throughout our experiences within the lifestyle. I'm choosing to have sex with people who i i may not have chosen to when we first got into the lifestyle because i've had some positive experiences with people who are maybe a little bit outside my boundaries and it was a lot of fun yes yes so i'm okay with maybe changing my boundaries a little bit or that over time, my boundaries have expanded. Right. I'm the opposite in where I wasn't as I mean, I had boundaries. Maybe I wasn't as picky in the beginning because I didn't know what I didn't know.
and i feel like my tastes are maybe more refined now not picky but just more refined and i don't want to just lay down for anybody i really value the that connection with people now as opposed to before but i had a reason for why I didn't want a connection before, because to me, it felt threatening. Now it doesn't feel threatening. Now I desire that. So once again, my preferences have changed as well. Yeah. And I'll say that one of the reasons why my boundaries have kind of expanded was this concept of getting to know people. Yes.
And, you know, when you get to know somebody, sometimes they're sexier than when you first meet.
have kind of expanded was this concept of getting to know people yes and you know when you get to know somebody sometimes they're sexier than when you first meet them yes yes and that has a lot to do with that level of enthusiasm that level of connection and that feeling that you know what i feel comfortable they may not be my my typical they may not be that that kink or that fetish that i really usually go for but god they seem like a lot of fun right this could be interesting okay so that was team no let's talk about team yes team yes is either an enthusiastic yes We'll see you next time.
OK, so that was team. No, let's talk about team. Yes. Team. Yes. Is either an enthusiastic. Yes. Or a lukewarm. Yes. Right. Right. So they have a little more wiggle room.
Classic example of this is we'll just say one partner is a 10 and the other partners five maybe a five but they're interesting they have a they've got some particular feature that you go you know i could kind of just dive into the boobs for a while and just forget the rest of the stuff right that's okay okay can we talk about october for a second oh my god yeah i've been waiting for this we were invited to be guest speakers for two engagements on a six-star crystal cruise ship with 310 lifestyle couples and it sails from montreal to boston during the peak foliage season Thank you.
crystal cruise ship with 310 lifestyle couples and it sails from montreal to boston during the peak foliage season i'm super excited and honestly i'm really nervous yeah it's kind of a version of like a swinger ted talk that we're gonna have to do oh my god i know and more importantly if you know the brand it's llv luxury lifestyle vacations you may have seen them and they're sexy playmakers with their fun red hats this ship the crystal symphony is classy butler service for every single room michelin rated restaurants full spa, clothing sensual playrooms like everything theme nights and international dj so it's luxury and nudity oh man this is gonna be great the bottom line is we want you there with us it's 310 couples and like all their vacations they book up fast they really do their vacations are extremely popular so please come with us and in order to find it all you have to do is go to our swingerlinks.com and look for the llv Voyage.
We hope you'll join us. Right. Or it's the humor or they tickled my brain. It's the sapiosexual aspect that I really like. Maybe they talk dirty really well. Right. And that just does it for you. The tingles start to happen. You're like, oh, yeah, it's on. Right. Maybe they talk dirty really well. Right. And that just. And then does it for you. The tingles start to happen. You're like, oh, yeah, it's on. Right. So what's fun about that is that you get to experiment and discover new things with other people that you may have not known that you like. Right.
And you go, oh, I want to do that again with that person because I don't get that with you. And I could get that with that person. And it's fun because it's like going out for ice cream. You're like, oh, I get to have chocolate ice cream. I never have chocolate ice cream at the house. I have chocolate ice cream or the sprinkles or whatever. Right. Right. I mean, the dirty talk's a really good example. I mean, maybe that partner can talk a really good game and they're basically just seducing you right off your feet. You're like, oh, I'm in. I was a maybe and now I'm a oh, hell yeah.
Take me away. Right. Right. So this this the team, yes, also said that, you know, these lukewarm yeses allow for more experiences. Right. Like what we were kind of describing. You don't really know because you need to open up that space for the experience to happen. Right. Early in our swinging, we said yes, probably more so than we say yes now. We were also experimenting a lot with orgies and they seem to be very, as like people like to say, organic, right? Very spontaneous. Very spontaneous, right? And they always seem to be happening everywhere. And so in order to...
I wish they happened all the all the time but it didn't require a lot of conversation up front which is where we were awkward and so we would just kind of jump in right and it was nice that no we were very very lucky and and it's a testament to the swinger community that that people were very respectful and didn't take advantage there was no negotiation or any kind of quote verbal consent up front there's a lot of non-verbal consent a lot of non-verbal and it just worked now i will say in the early days i don't think people partied as hard as they do now seems to yeah it seems to have ramped up a little bit it does and so if i i'm a little more picky with with people who are a little more through the influence high or drunk because i tend I tend not to have as good experience.
And so for me, that's my personal preference and choice. Right, right. And a lot of our early experiences with, you know, saying yes, or at least being comfortable with kind of being in those, those larger group dynamics had to do with, there were a fair amount of maybes. There were a couple no's in the room, but because of the group situation, you can be a little flexible and you can kind of move around the room. And as some people have said, there's no such thing as a bad blow job. Oh my goodness. The last thing, which is really a turn on for me and I don't know.
oh my goodness the last thing which is really a turn on for for me and i've heard this from other people is that that energy that when you look at another couple and you can tell that they're just in love with each other right they're just passionate about each other right and you love the way they make out with one another. You love the way they touch one another. And it's exciting. It is a turn on. And you just want to be part of it. Right. And I have had that experience multiple times. And honestly, it is the most beautiful thing ever.
It's really exciting to watch that enthusiasm, whether it's a single partner or it's a couple, that level of enthusiasm really gets me motivated. It's very exciting to watch and you kind of feed off of that energy. Yeah, it's powerful because powerful. Yeah. Because they're owning their sexuality. They're owning their passion and their expression, and they're not afraid to show it. And that is addicting. It's catching, right? Well, let's talk about keeping score and IOUs.
This is one of those things where you've got a tally sheet in the back of your head where you're like hmm remember that time with that thing with the girl in the that room and it was weird jungle man guess what yeah i'm calling in that that favor because now that couple i want that partner and we're gonna have have a good time. And guess what? Calling in the chit. I'm calling in the chit. Some people said that that phrase or the concept of quote score is really wrong and insensitive. They didn't like it at all. I don't think anyone really was in favor of using it in that way.
There were a few people in favor of saying, yeah, an IOU. It was kind of a little softer of an approach. Sure, sure. And I think when it gets to the point where you feel like you're pushing your partner to do something that they're not comfortable with, when when that IOU is a kind of a detriment to your partner. Right. Yeah. That's kind of a no fly zone. Yeah. Yeah. It usually the IOU is when one partner's all in and the other person's kind of on the fence. Right.
Maybe they haven't had enough time to communicate with their other partner or flirt with them or warm up to them, engage with them enough. Right. We've actually had this happen before where you were all in and I'm like. I'm with you. I just need more time with him. I need to talk with him. I need to feel more comfortable. But I think there's a strong possibility. Right. And so you, we negotiated, we took the step aside, we negotiated. And I said, you know, I just give me another half an hour conversation with him. And I think, I think we could make this happen.
Once I was all in, then we had a great time. I will say that I tend to fall into the taking one for the team side to a certain degree. I know how hard it is for you to find partners that you like really connect with. And when you do, I feel a little guilty because my palette is maybe a little wider than yours. And so if you're having a hard time finding partners and you find one that you really gel with and their partners, maybe not so much on my list, maybe even on the border of not really interested. Right.
I might still do it just because it's so challenging for you to find people who you just connect with. Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. and because I've had such good luck and because my spectrum is a little wider than yours, I don't really have a problem finding partners where I'm like, yeah, it'll be fun. Do you think there is that satisfaction and erotic charge watching me have sex with somebody else? Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that go into that. So say, for example, maybe you don't like, I don't know, the shape of the woman's hand.
Let's just say the shape of the woman, because I'm not going to. We'll go abstract. We'll go abstract. Maybe you don't like the shape of her hand. But you're like, you know what? There are 10 other things about this woman's body that I really enjoy. But the hands, you know, we're kind of putting you over the edge, so to speak. But you're like, you know what? There's a there's nine other things that are great. And I get to watch my wife with this man. Absolutely. And I think part of it is that I can I tend to be able to find at least one attractive attribute or at least one redeeming thing.
I'm very much a lemonade person. I like to create lemonade even when i'm handed lemons now that sounds very objectifying but at the same time if you're not attracted to someone you're not attracted to them right but i can kind of find attractive qualities for a lot of people and so i think that's why my spectrum is maybe a little bit wider than yours is. I think for us, it also has something to do with your background and my background. I've had a lot of shitty sex in my life. Oh, absolutely. I really don't want to have any more shitty sex.
There's also the really just the very real issue that women are accepting a man inside of them and that's very invasive yes men we're pretty much just sticking things in other people right and it's it's a different experience from everything that i've heard yeah we are inviting you into our home our own sanctuary so it is it's different right this one's a little awkward this almost plays into our gossip episode and how things get out in the community and that's what happens if one of your play partners finds out that you took one for the team. God, can you imagine?
Well, from an ego standpoint or from a body image standpoint, that can be demoralizing. Oh, yeah. So if you're going to do this, be really careful about how you deal with it and how you talk about it and how you like keep it to yourselves like this should not be something no that gets out in any respect because if it gets out you're screwed not only are you going to be out that guy yeah you are not going to be on any house party list ever you You're going to be on everybody's shit list. Yes. So keep it to yourself. It's your thing. This is how you decide to deal with it.
And just take it that way. Here are some really interesting things to think about.
When you're taking one for the team, so to speak if if it's not a hundred percent yes is it really consensual right you know so this is just kind of things to think about gray area of not definitively yes so is it really consensual from my perspective Yeah, I don't think i would ever consent to something that i was not comfortable with i may not be a hundred percent comfortable with it but it's still consent i'm still at least from my perspective still saying yes so if you are saying yes and you don't feel like you're consenting or you feel shitty about saying yes, it may not be consent.
Correct.
And I will say in that people pleaser mode, I have said yes and I did not want to say yes and i felt shitty afterward and who is to blame me so i have learned to not do that to myself anymore another thing to think about do you feel forced to have sex to make your primary partner happy that would be an interesting thing if you are feeling that way you should really think about that we get comments and we see comments and questions a lot in the swinger forums about this and we have actually experienced this sure more so early on where the husband speaks for the wife right and says oh she likes this oh she really wants this the wife is pretty silent she's usually um under the influence and doesn't have much of a voice right and knowing now after years of experience seeing that i do not um i stray away i will talk and ask her directly but if i don't feel like i get a confident answer from her no way yeah and this goes a lot to the, the issue of consent and how you can grant consent if you're not a hundred percent there or a hundred percent on board.
And that kind of power imbalance, we've seen it in forums.
We've seen it in, in conversation with other swingers where it's like, yeah, she just didn't seem like she was into it she didn't seem like she was on board like she was super quiet or she didn't she wasn't flirty at all or most of this does tend to be women who seem to be kind of railroaded or you know dragged along to these events a lot of swingers pick up on this and it's easy to spot because they just look out of place yeah they don't look like a couple the other thing to think about is do you feel obliged to have sex with somebody else to keep your partner happy it's it's kind of the same thing as feeling forced but you know it's a little different you feel obligated right you or at least guilty after the fact right like at the at the end of the night you're like i you actually had this issue for a long time you felt like if if i wasn't happy or I wasn't coming away from a party, having that experience that you had somehow gotten in the way of the fun, your yes, I ruined your yeah, I ruined your fun.
Right. And I assured you over and over again. It's like, no, your happiness is just as important as mine. And I am more than happy to just leave a party if that's what we need to do. It was a bit challenging because it was almost a battle of who wants who to be happy, right? I wanted you to be happy, but you didn't want me to be unhappy to the detriment of your happiness. Right.
Another thing to think through through is do you think it's dehumanizing to keep score in other words talk about objectification i mean it's literally keeping a tally like that whole notch on the headboard kind of a thing yeah and i i think it's okay if it's kind of in jest or you're having some fun with it where you're like, you remember that one time at that party and I wasn't really so much into it, but you were super gung ho. OK, I'm going to let you have that. But did you see her? Right. Right. Or or maybe it's situational. Right.
They say you're on a on a cruise and there's different theme nights and you go you know tonight's my night i'm i'm gonna you know i'm gonna go to the playroom and i'm gonna pick out this type of person and i'm gonna play with them right and then tomorrow is your night right and so you have a very limited structured time and it kind of becomes like a game a kink sure right something fun that you both do together with the obviously with the consent of others and so in that regard you're kind of keeping score right yeah it you almost make a game of it where it's more of a novelty thing. Yes.
And you're, you know, it's like a bucket list. You're like, I've never tried that before. I'm going to check that box. Right. Do you feel resentment or guilt afterward? So if you've got strong feelings like something wasn't about that, and you're thinking about it a lot afterwards, think about that. Right. Do you feel it is a lack of respect to yourself, your relationship, or even to the other play partner? Right?
Because you've, you to them oh my god you're so hot i really want to play with you again even though you and you said it to let them down easy or to you know and then all of a sudden they think oh my god i'm so special to her she's gonna want me next time i see her don't. Or you didn't say anything. You didn't try to seduce them. You weren't flirty with them. And you become that silent partner that's kind of not into it. Oh, yeah. How does that make them feel at the end? Right. You're like, oh, she doesn't look like she's into it.
They weren't really into it it and i've been in plenty of situations where it just didn't seem like she was into it yeah and she just like yeah not not at all interested in either me or the situation or whatever right but momentum was moving that way. And that's where everybody went. And I end up feeling pretty weird about it afterwards. Yeah. And that's when we stop and we go, you know, I'm not sure if everyone else on the same page.
We, you know, have learned a lot from our new beginnings and the orgies and, and, of that and we honestly have have moved more towards sober play again we started off sober for the first three years then we got really comfortable we started you know relaxing a little bit vibing more a little bit with the social scene it hasn't really been a pro in my mind. I haven't had those meaningful connections and experiences that I really like and enjoy when I'm not completely sober. So we are moving more towards that and more of a more expressing what we want out of a situation. Right.
Our preferences have changed as they do the relationship with yourself and with your partner is an agreement if you don't agree to stand up for what you want nobody else will relationships are all about agreements and negotiating what works for you and your relationship. Be sure to join our Patreon community for behind-the-scenes stories and extra sexy content. Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining our community. Don't forget your homework. Tell a friend about our show and leave a review and comment.
You can also leave us a voicemail at 916-538-0482 or contact us at SwingerUniversity.com. Keep learning, keep growing, and keep it sexy. Oh, one last thing before you go. If this episode helped you in any way, the single best thing you can do to support the show is leaving a rating and review. It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship education. And we've made it easy. Visit swingeruniversity.com forward slash review. All the instructions are there. Thank you for being part of this community. We'll see you again soon.
