Want to send us a message? We discovered some surprising reactions to the NO Kissing Rule from Swingers. Since kissing can make or break a swinging encounter find out how the NO Kissing rule is a hot-button in the swinger lifestyle.To shed light on the matter, we combed through a survey involving 386 individuals, and the results were nothing short of intriguing. We discovered a wide range of opinions, showcasing both the positive and negative aspects of kissing. So, if you d like to understand more and have an inclusive attitude towards swingers who have this rule, we take you through the psychology, biology, cultural influences, and personal experiences surrounding kissing. Whether you re a passionate pucker-upper or someone who prefers to express affection through alternative means, join us on this hilarious and informative journey as we navigate the world of kissing with compassion, understanding, and a healthy dose of humor.Warning: Listening to this podcast may cause an irresistible urge to lock lips with someone nearby….or NOT! Kiss responsibly! NO Kissing Rule:Reasons and perspectives.Psychological factors, personal experiences, and misconceptions.Balancing boundaries and intimacy.The Impact of Kissing on Emotional Connection and Relationship Satisfaction:Emotional bonding and attachment.Oxytocin and neurochemical effects.Correlation and communication.Navigating Diverse Preferences and Negotiating Consent:Personal Boundaries and PreferencesNegotiating ConsentRespecting Others Choices:Non-judgmental attitude and empathy.Conclusion Embracing Diversity and Personal FreedomNo universal approach.Respecting desires and choices.Nurturing Healthy Connections:Consent, communication, and respect.Emotional satisfaction. Support the showWant More?👀 Watch on YouTube: YouTube ShowFull video versions and interactive live episodes!Bonus episodes, exclusive content, and 🌶️Extras: https://www.patreon.com/SwingerUniversity 🛳️🎉Looking for lifestyle events in your area? T4P is the go-to directory for clubs, parties, and resort events. Browse now at Ticket4Play.com Custom SU T-shirts and gear: Our Amazon StoreSwingerLinks.com - live schedule, special offers*, and our 🌶️links!Our Website - Leave us a message, articles, and sexy products3 Ways to get your question on our show:RECORD it on our website at: https://swingeruniversity.com/contact/EMAIL a recorded voice note to: [email protected]: (916) 538-0482 and leave a voicemail.* We get a commission if you decide to purchase through our links, at no cost to you.
Transcript
We have to talk about something we've been genuinely excited about for months, and our patrons actually got a preview of this already. Jamaica! Yes, we are going back, and actually, we have a great offer for you guys. Yeah, it's Swingcation. It's October 11th through the 18th at Hedonism 2. And if you don't know what Swingcation is, it's pretty easy. Swinger plus kink plus vacation. It's a hosted group with real structure, workshops, lectures, real conversations with experts who are passionate about bringing and bridging that gap between the swinger world and the kink world.
And we're not just going as attendees. We're going as featured presenters, which is exciting. We'll be leading sessions. So if you come, we actually get to hang out with you. Which brings up something we should mention. When you use our code, yes, we got a code, you're not just getting a discount. You're getting the signature swing experience, which means $100 off per person, up to $200 per room, but it also means that we make time for you. An exclusive breakfast, lunch, cocktail hour, or one-hour and one time with us directly, plus more surprise benefits.
Here's something that's really unique. You could actually contribute by hosting a discussion or running a Skillshare. I know it's scary, but if you have something that you want to contribute, that's a big part of why this event is so special. Everyone there has something to bring to the table. All right, details. If you book before April 25th, you save $400. Plus, they gave us that special code that gets you an additional $200, and the special code is SWINGERU-VIP. So book through TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky. That's T-I-C-K-E-T, the number four, play.com forward slash S-W-I-N-K-Y.
And use our code at checkout. And you guys, if you have any questions about the event, the resort, or what to expect, just reach out. I mean, we're here for you. We're happy to help. So once again, TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky, the code SwingerU-VIP. We really want to see you there. Welcome to Swinger University, the podcast that explores the exciting and often misunderstood world of open relationships. I'm Phoebe. And I'm Ed. And you can see it as a jealousy issue between couples? Is it your red flag? Why is it such a hot topic?
And why is there this need to shame others for their wishes, desires, and feelings? Plus, we are going to show you how you can honor someone else's rule without assigning shame or judgment and knowingly break the rule to see what kissing someone else is like. I think this is going to be one of our best episodes ever. Please rate and review Swinger University wherever you listen to our show.
Your ratings help boost our podcast and draw in new listeners follow us on youtube tiktok and all of our social media you can find all our links on swingeruniversity.com and of course we love getting questions from our audience and you can leave us a voicemail at 916-538-0482 or contact us at swingeruniversity.com. Tell us your name, age, and where you live, or you can be anonymous. If you're a super fan of our show, consider supporting us on Patreon. As a member, you'll have access to exclusive content that's even hotter than what we share on the podcast. So come join our naughty community.
We promise you won't regret it. Here's a question from one of our listeners. We are new to the lifestyle and have had a few encounters. One of our rules is no kissing, except for my wife can kiss another female. One time when we explained this to another couple, they didn't understand why and said it's unusual. How do others in the lifestyle feel about kissing? Are we the weird ones? We surveyed the swinger community, about 386 individuals, to gain their insights into the positive and negative aspects of swinging. And we are going to read some of those comments to you.
What was surprising to us was there were three times more negative comments than positive ones. We were also surprised to see that they were mostly judgmental with some shame.
Now, this survey went all over the U.S., so it was a sampling of all the communities not just our area and the reason I say that is because we haven't experienced a lot of judgments or shame in our community right a little bit recently I'm starting to notice I do not see and have not seen it to this degree yeah and it's interesting in interactions direct interactions with people we haven't seen very much in the way of shaming um i think some of this is keyboard safety and people get behind keyboard, they have the anonymity of the internet, and they kind of let their bad inner child speak out.
Right. And that's unfortunate. They're being surveyed, and they just, but see, that's, and they let their honesty out. But that's, you know, hey, it's the inner voice coming out. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's true. It is their inner voice coming out. But at the same time, it's interesting. It's interesting because you and I think of this as sex positivity and the whole lifestyle being all about sex positive, so to hear almost any kind of negative commentary feels kind of counterintuitive to what the whole point of being sex positive is. Correct.
And it was to the degree that i decided what why don't people like kissing right and i thought well gosh maybe maybe there's let's step into the shoes of the person that doesn't like being kissed is there more than just the rule that we had in the beginning which was ed stop making out with the lady for at least 15 minutes so that you can breathe. We had that no kissing rule briefly, and we'll get into that. But it was quickly changed for us, and we'll describe that later. Right.
So, let's read some of these comments so everyone knows what we're talking about so we're going to read the negatives first and then we'll read the positives but beware there's it's a lot of negative three times more and i pared them down honestly right this isn't all of them this is just this is a select few yeah i'm not going to bend your ear with all of that. Yes, this is a select few. Okay, so do you want to start with the first one? Sure. It's too weird not to kiss. It's natural to do. So a little bit of judgy, a little bit of shaming. Yeah.
Stick a penis in me, both vaginally and orally, it's way more personal than kissing. Which is semi-debatable, but true and not. And we're going to go into why that's different. Exactly. I tend to stay away from people with rules. Too risky if something goes wrong.
And of course, our point with that is, wow, they're going to miss out on a lot with that is wow they're gonna miss out on a lot of stuff you're gonna miss out on a lot of cool shit people with rules kill moods yeah a little judgy yeah i'm not really sure what to do with that one and uh i probably should just refrain with we always leave it at that yeah it's a red flag and a jealousy issue so maybe it is maybe it isn't how do you know right that's ours wasn't a jealousy issue no there's a lot of assumptions there and we are gonna have other reasons why a little bit later.
So keep hanging in there. The next one. We are secure and not a jealous couple. Okay, another jealousy pointer. Infers that if you're insecure, you're also jealous. And therefore, you have to have a role. We see no kissing as a red flag indicates relationship issues. Maybe. Maybe not. there's so many reasons my question was so what are they gonna like shoot you like like what are you afraid of like what i can't imagine what would be the worst case scenario what's the the fear? I don't understand. You get off the bed and move to the next room because they have some issue, I guess. I don't know.
I don't know. Most bizarre rule in the lifestyle, rules are drama. Wow, that's pretty severe. Stop with the with the rules okay if sex can be sex why can't kissing be kissing i i i kind of i had to i have to translate that one in my head because i'm not even sure what they're well i guess if it's if it's the the phrase it's only sex. Yes. It's only kissing. Right. Exactly. I can see that. And I had this mental argument with myself early on, and I couldn't figure out why it was different. And I had to figure that out.
Well, we had the same argument going from soft swap to full swap or not argument conversation mental philosophical debate in our heads about okay why are we drawing the line right because if the face is between my legs how is the face to me the face is more intimate because you have eyes you have the mouth right then and so how are you swapping swapping partners, so what's the difference between a mouth and a penis? Right. I know. Sounds like a control issue. No lips means no oral, I'm out. Which means... I'm not sure that's true of a no kissing rule, but okay.
i haven't heard of you just missed out on a really great opportunity but maybe it is okay so a lot of as you can tell there's some shame and some judging and a lot of missed opportunities and so assumptions a lot of assumptions so i thought well gosh you know i i really need to to help educate the swinger community about this so that they can have more fun they can have more fun don't let the rule be in your way work with the rule right we just call those constraints yeah all. So here are some of the positive ones. I don't really like kissing as a whole unless it's someone I love.
It would not affect me at all to not do it in the lifestyle or at a party. The kiss is too sacred for me, and I like to save it for my partner. I understand that. I only like how my partner kisses he knows what i like that does make sense which does make sense i have had the opposite of that yeah happened before yes and so we'll get into that okay so those are some of the quotes yeah so let's just dig into this whole like no kissing rule in the swinger lifestyle what is this right's just dig into this whole, like, no kissing rule in the swinger lifestyle. What is this? Right, right.
So new people, who typically uses the rule? The new people, right? Right. And who else? Well, and people who are potentially afraid of intimacy. Yeah. And being too intimate with the casual sex partners. Right. Right. and being too intimate with the casual sex partners, right? Okay. Can we talk about October for a second? Oh my God. Yeah. I've been waiting for this. We were invited to be guest speakers for two engagements on a six star crystal cruise ship with 310 lifestyle couples.
And it sails montreal to boston during the peak foliage season i'm super excited and honestly i'm really nervous yeah it's kind of a version of like a swinger ted talk that we're gonna have to do oh my god i know and more importantly if you know the brand, it's LLV, Luxury Lifestyle Vacations. You may have seen them and they're sexy playmakers with their fun red hats. This ship, the Crystal Symphony, is classy. Butler service for every single room, Michelin rated restaurants, full spa, clothing optional, sensual playrooms, like everything, theme nights and international DJ.
So it's luxury and nudity. Oh man, this is going to be great. The bottom line is we want you there with us. It's 310 couples and like all their vacations they book up fast they really do their vacations are extremely popular so please come with us and in order to find it all you have to do is go to our swingerlinks.com and look for the llv sensage. We hope you'll join us. There is a group of people, the neurodivergent people, that have issues with that type of closeness. And we'll break that down as to what that element is for those individuals. And it'll totally make sense.
Then you have some people that have a kissing phobia. And I'm going to ask you to pronounce it because I haven't actually done that out loud yet. Philemophobia, people. Yes.
And then there's just people that just simply want the rule, period, for whatever reasons, right right that's special to them and their partner it makes them nervous they want to take right they want to move in a different direction whatever it's their rule they've decided on that and that's their rule that's their rule and just some of the reasons and motivations behind the rule, there's some psychology, some biology, cultural differences, and personal experiences surrounding kissing. Let's get into the power of kissing. Yeah, you and I are like big fans of kissing. We love kissing.
We even taught a class on kissing techniques at one of our conferences that we were at because we love it so much. It's so much fun. Kissing is so good. Yes. It does establish this connection, this intimacy. And I kind of spoke about that a little bit ago. and for us it's this like chemical spark it like kicks things off from a biological standpoint it releases oxytocin and neurochemicals there's this whole foreplay arousal precursor for sex so so it kind of gets the juices going, both chemically, but also the mouth and other areas that get all stimulated and juicy. Yes.
And there's another aspect of this, which is just pair bonding and nurturing so that connection that you have especially with long-term partners that release of the oxytocin on a regular basis creates this bond this almost a chemical neurological bond with your partner Right. So i kind of understand the quote with that's something i reserve special for my primary partner i get it it kind of makes sense to me yeah it's very intimate i mean it does i don't i said kind of it does it does make sense to me i got to do, and I thought, all right, how many nerve endings are in the lips?
It's got to be way less than the clitoris and penis, because I've already researched that. Oh my gosh. To my shocking surprise, lip sensitivity has about a million, a million different nerve endings.
wow that's it's okay so your lips are in the top three most sensitive parts of your body okay lips fingertips and tongue and i think your fingertips and your tongue are more sensitive than your lips makes sense your clit's not in there and your penis isn't in there where do those fall way down on the list and the the 8 000 nerve endings in the clitoris and labia is less and penis is about half of that now these numbers are pseudo-scientific they haven't really figured the exact quantity of nerves out. There's some research that's even calling into question the 8,000 nerves in the clitoris.
But relatively speaking, there's a lot more nerve endings in the lips and the mouth. So then my brain kind of goes to more sensitive, more intimate. more stimulating, more stimulating. so i could see how that might be a little more unsettling and i will tell you why next because as a woman i can lay there and have someone penetrate me and just pretty much take a nap. Sure. You could imagine you're someplace else. I can imagine I'm somewhere else. You could be fucking me and I'm just like yawning, right? Especially doggy style or something like that.
You could be on your phone and they wouldn't even know it.
No, because doggy does nothing for me i actually have no pretty much no sensation in that position it it provides no no stimulation whatsoever so the lips do and it's it would be hard to fake a kiss right if you're kissing someone right and if you don't want to kiss them back you've got deadpan face dead lips right right and it's pretty hard to fake a kiss kissing a fish or a dead person it would be really weird someone would go in and they would stop immediately because you weren't kissing them back yeah the nonverbal signals would be a dead giveaway. Right.
So, once again, more intimate with kissing, less intimate with sex. Right. Makes perfect sense. Okay. So, when you're also kissing, we address the chemical and hormonal aspects that kicked off and nurturing. Oh the eyes yes you get the eyes if you're you know connecting kissing yeah that's very intimate yeah you are literally in someone's face like you can't get any more in someone's face than kissing hence hence the whole get out of my face right people get incensed you're like you're in my whole, get out of my face, right? People get incensed. You're like, you're in my space.
Get out of my face. It's very much, it's about as in someone's personal bubble as you can get. Right. So we wouldn't have that comment, that phrase in our culture, if it didn't really mean something. It's an intimate space. Right. Are the light bulbs going off everybody yet? So. One of the things that you run into with kissing, especially with new partners in the lifestyle, is incompatibility with kissing styles. So I've had partners who were either too aggressive or too distant, right? Like not into it enough or just the whole hard mouth, not really moving their mouth kind of a kiss.
So everybody kisses a little bit differently. Right. And just like they have sex differently.
differently right and some of those and and i'll actually say kissing is a more complex interaction yes sex because you can go harder soft you know slow fast and you can move in kind of different angles but your lips like you can create shapes you can move your tongue there's breathing there's oh many different lip biting yes there's you're right way more techniques with kissing yeah it's a pretty complex series of motions to move your lips together and i've had my fair share of incompatible kissing with people right and the other move your lips together.
And I've had my fair share of incompatible kissing with people. Right. And the other thing that might make, you know, kissing uncomfortable for you is that it tends to have this lead up to sex. Right. So there's this expectation that if I kiss you and we get hot and heavy and the juices start flowing, that all of a sudden you think the next thing is sex. Or I get so hot and bothered that I might not be able to resist wanting to go to that next step.
And if I have another rule, which is no penetrative sex, but I'm all worked up because of the kissing, then i might not i might it might be rougher it might be harder for me to hold back right right and then of course the intimacy and vulnerability of being in someone's face yes and looking in their eyes if you are yeah there's another aspect to this and i'll just come out and say it hygiene concerns so bad breath food people have been drinking smoking so maybe you hook up with a couple that smokes and you're not really into smoking you may not want to kiss them right it's it's not for everybody some people are a little more sensitive to those smells and tastes um and just general hygiene right like how well are they taking care of that they have their face six month cleaning do they have any cavities can you smell them yeah yeah all of that and then if you're a germaphobe or even if you're not i was actually kind of shocked we kind of sort of germaphobed i did yeah i did germaphobe up a little bit.
80 million bacteria can be exchanged in a passionate kiss that lasts more than 10 seconds. Yes. Oh, my God. And to be clear, the human mouth is not a particularly bacteria-free environment to begin with. No. It's kind of a dirty place. No. So then I was like, holy shit. Okay, so if you kissed 10 people at a party, put your face in five pussies, and ate three cocks, can you imagine the amount of bacteria in your mouth? It's a lot of bacteria. Holy crap. So now your body has all this foreign bacteria to fight off.
And I was thinking, oh, my God, no wonder sometimes I don't feel so great the next day. It wasn't that I had too much to drink. My body's like, holy shit, what is all this bacteria in my body? Bacteriological warfare going on. Yeah. And then don't even get me started on the bacteria in your vagina and all the issues that that might cause. Right. And transmitting the bacteria from your mouth to the vagina. It's a thing. Okay. Germophobe gone. Can't think about that. Gotta think about the good times. Shake it off. Shake it off. Cultural differences. Hello. Did we even think about that? No.
And some cultures don't recognize kissing, interestingly enough. I know. Most cultures do here in the United States. But if you from somewhere else maybe and you're living here maybe you don't but it's so the the clear thing is it's not a universal thing like not everyone believes in kissing so correct or the importance of kissing right so the american anthropological Association in 2015 did a study and found 45% of North American cultures do not kiss. Wow. Not even romantically or sexually. So North America, that's Canada all the way south to up to Central America. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Right?
I was like, that is almost half.
It it is almost half i'm really good at math and the and and the and the other reason was it's just gross or unpleasant right which which kind of goes back to some of the differences of hygiene in different cultures maybe they don't have a good dental care right they don't get to get their teeth cleaned every six months because that's just not an option for them could be that the food that they eat is just unpleasant to kiss because it's so particularly strong yeah it's really maybe like it's got a lot of curries or a lot of spices and garlic who knows yeah right it's very rich in flavor and so you always have food breath we mentioned this a little bit ago about neurodivergent perspectives and kind of alternative forms of intimacy so let's let's talk about how someone who is neurodivergent might be affected by kissing.
Right. Most neurodivergent people don't like kissing, and they prefer to express their affection and appreciation differently. And some of the ways they like to do that is a caress on the face with fingers.
You can caress lips and noses but not with a kiss not making out and and then other areas of the body are also exploratory right because our skin is highly sensitive right so neck but you know back of the neck which i actually really love and honestly it's almost as good as kissing because it gives me goosebumps all over my body yeah all the tingles all the tingles you know the crook of the arm back of the knees spine palms so they like to focus on you know other sensual areas of the body which right so if you really have to kiss yeah but you don't want to kiss lip to lip there are certainly other places that you could kiss right so if you can't kiss exactly what you said to that guy's quote right no no kissing on the lips means no i'm out i'm like wow you could you could kiss all over someone's body and drive them crazy.
There's 98% of the rest of the body you could kiss. Oh, yeah. If you didn't kiss my lips. Then kiss my butt. Oh, my gosh. You could kiss the back of my neck. Right, that too. For those of you that don't want to opt for the face-to-face lip-to-lip kiss, there's also something called the ocean kiss, where you stand very close to another partner's face and breathe deeply without allowing your mouths to touch.
So it's almost a form of breath play right and this of course is works well if you're comfortable with being you know near someone who's kind of essentially breathing on you right and you don't have issues with you know breath odor right so definitely breath mint territory for this one so i i could see when, when I'm kissing, I'm not, I'm aware of breath odor. I'm not aware of somebody breathing on me. Right. But I will say, when we're sleeping together, and you turn towards me, and you're breathing on me, and I haven't fallen asleep yet, that bugs me. Yeah, it's like the wind in your ear.
I'm like, what? What is that? Breeze. The fear of kissing. You know how to say this. Philomophobia. I think you said it better before, but I will take it. Actually, it may be phylumophobia. It may be phylumophobia. Anyway, we'll leave it at that. It's the fear of germs, body odors, touch, fear of intimacy and vulnerability. Sometimes it's rooted in fear of rejection, not being enough or disappointing or disgusting.
People avoid it to prevent judgment, hurt, and rejection rejection and sometimes it's an unaddressed trauma right so people may be choosing to not kiss or have a no kissing rule because they have some deep-seated trauma that they're trying to not spoil the event right and ruin the evening by dredging all of that up i know so here i was just in somebody else's shoes going wow you know Thank you.
evening by dredging all of that up i know so here i was just in somebody else's shoes going wow you know i had no idea this could be a thing but i still want to participate in swinging but i can't kiss anyone because right i've got some unaddressed trauma so we can't shame people like that because you never know what's going on with them. You don't know the reason why. They're not bad. They're not jealous. It's not a red flag issue. I mean, what is this? The scarlet letter? Right. I know. Clearly, there's more than one reason why people don't have or have a kissing rule.
I mean, in a sense, I'm kind of judging the judgers and i feel bad for that i'm just passionate about educating people because i have been in this place like you so many times where i see something and i go oh me and then i i go gosh you know why do i feel like that and i step out of my shoes and i do some research and i go oh totally get it right And then I, I go, gosh, you know, why do I feel like that? And I step out of my shoes and I do some research and I go, oh, totally get it. And then I can be more inclusive and work with that situation rather than put up the hand and go me, right?
Here's why we sail on Virgin. It's adults only. No kids screaming at breakfast, no family buffet lines, just champagne at noon, late night pool parties, and people who actually want to be there. The vibe? Think boutique hotel that happens to float, Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you'd actually pay for on land. Plus, when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let's just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous. No wonder Breadcruiser's here, just your people. Here are some suggestions that can help you through some of these situations.
So instead of assigning blame or judgment right away, let's start with asking some questions. You don't understand what their choice or rule is? Find out why they have that rule. You'll build a better connection with them, and you'll have a better appreciation for what your boundaries are and what the possibilities are for the night. It creates an inclusive attitude, so those diverse preferences and choices, and it doesn't set them up for feeling weird because you're acting adversarial towards their choices.
And remember that there's no universal right or wrong approach to kissing or not kissing or even how to play. And it promotes this honest communication within the swinger community really trying to understand how other people play and why they play the way that they do and as a swinger community we should continue to embrace diversity and personal freedom and that's the whole thing about sex positivity everybody's got a different. So we should try harder to try and understand what that thing is. Right.
So how does somebody go about navigating someone else's boundaries and getting consent around the no kissing rule? Well, first, negotiate those agreed upon boundaries. So that conversation where you're having an understanding about what rules they have, you can say, well, then what is on the table or what, what are you into? What do you guys like to do? Yeah.
And I would even say, ask the question, what happens if I accidentally go for your lips and I, and I you on the lips will that be offensive because I'm really trying hard to honor your rule but I you know it is natural for me to want to go in for a kiss right so if I do how do I how do I how do we how do we navigate that in the moment would you you know is that is i gonna ruin things you know talk about it right just be honest absolutely ask about other types of sensory play so what kinds of touching and what kinds of contact are on the table and available yeah and of course what kinds of oral player available you want a kiss you, clearly you have an oral fixation of some sort.
How else could that be satisfied? Right. Right. And get consent and then repeat back their wishes, of course. Right. And then remember that swinging is not always about penetration. Or only about penetration.
Right is gonna happen and say you want to experiment with just tossing out the rule how how do you how are you going to experiment with like how are you going to do this right right and i would say interview the right couple talk about what you like and don't like pick a spot at a party that's quiet go slow don't don't go in for that epic makeout session and then again ask them what they like what they don't like while you're kissing so make it kind of fun you know make it playful exploratory or or or sexy or sensual you know you're kissing and then you're like did you like that is that okay is that okay would you like more right that could be really hot and really sexy and you could also practice watching with one another.
And I this in the beginning i practiced watching you kiss somebody to to just get desensitized or used to watching you kiss somebody and experiencing those feelings right and trying to just breathe through the feelings because I didn't always know what they meant. I just knew it created a type of anxiety in me.
And we still have to get back to that story about our rule in the beginning and how we got around that and what triggered me yes so there was this time we were at a house party and ed was having this epic epic make-out session with this woman on the bed they were just oh my god like like the world was ending and kissing was the only thing left on the planet that's what it looked like to me it it was a lot of fun and she was really into it and she was a she was a very compatible kisser for my my style yeah i still to day, I remember it like it was yesterday. Me too.
So, that was very triggering. And I understand, obviously, I understand now why, but I also had to process that and figure it out. And a lot of it was, I was feeling very envious because I wasn't We'll see you having that type of passion. I wanted that for myself as well. We hadn't got to that place of compersion where I could just sit back and go, oh, look at Ed go. God, look at him. He's just having the time of his life. I wasn't there yet. I mean, we were, what, a couple months in to the lifestyle? Yeah. Yeah, we were pretty new, pretty green.
Yeah, early on in our relationship, a couple years in. So, we hadn't really solidified a lot of things right between us plus if i remember you and her partner the mister hadn't quite hit it off yet yeah and the conversation was still a little awkward and off so we got compatible fast and you guys were still catching up. Yes. So, it was a timing thing, too. Right. So, that felt awkward because you guys were on the fast track to going to sex and I was doing my slow warm-up thing. Right. As I always do. Right. Slow warmer.
So, we sat down and we talked about this and we figured out all this stuff. And I said, okay, so next time, because what am I supposed to do if I get triggered again? It's going to happen. I know it is.
and so i asked ed to just put a limit consciously just be aware that to check on me right and and to maybe come up for air and it was hard to put a time on that because i didn't know what the time was it wasn't an arbitrary time right it was just an awareness right yeah and just check on me glance over every once in a while see see how things are going see if my eyes are popping out of my head and yeah and you did do that and you would look at me you'd give me eye contact you'd have love all over your face and you sometimes you'd reach out to me and grab my hand and squeeze it and i'd say i'm okay or sometimes i come in for a kiss and kiss you as well sometimes i join in and you know i kiss her and then you two would go back to kissing and then i could watch and that way i kind of felt like i was part of it and that you guys were bringing me along at the same speed right yeah and i think a lot of our early experiences with kind of the the feelings of envy and jealousy were really centered around being left out yeah not being at the same speed right as what the rest of the room was right and and i think i think a lot of people don't think about that and they don't realize that their partners may be not quite getting the same vibe that that you are and that's that's something that all partners need to be better about which is being aware of kind of how well their partner's doing right and i will hear that from time to time in the room women will express oh okay i guess we're going there now right and so i already know that's what that means and And they're like, he's, you know, him and her, his, her husband is hot to trot with somebody else, but she's not ready yet.
Right. And she's like, wow, that, you know, the race car has left the. You walked in the room, you pulled the condom out and you're. Gone. You're off to the races. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, that, that was a lot of pressure in the beginning that speed one one person being way more comfortable getting around the track faster than me yeah and and so that that was sort of our no kissing rule but it it was more about the intimacy that was involved with kissing and the timing of everything and just making sure that people weren't being left out. And we've had that same sense with Full Swap before, too.
Oh, yeah. um where know, one partner's just raring to go. Yes. And, you know, you're still doing the, the preliminaries, the foreplay part. Right. That's challenging to, to get through, especially when you're brand new to the lifestyle where you, you don't quite have your compersion feelings ready. You know, you're not there yet. And even after you have a lot of experience, sometimes you'll have evenings where you're just not feeling it. Right. And you're like, not tonight. Yep.
so the beginning of this where we were listing off all of those negative comments about jealousy and red flags, there's so much more to it than that. Yeah. So much more to it than that. Yeah. And I'm just going to leave it at that because this could easily turn into an internet rant about swinger groups on the internet. Yeah, and we obviously worked through it. Yeah. We had conversations about it for sure. We didn't offend anybody. We weren't wearing the scarlet letter in the swinger community. We worked around it.
it was worked we worked around it we figured we did figured out our own path for it and we didn't make it anybody else's problem it was it was our thing to work out yeah and you know we didn't create any drama or you know a lot of people like to throw around the word drama whatever that is it's a it's a discussion between two people if you don't like hearing uh personal discussions between between two people and then step away it's not a big deal it happens all the time yeah so yeah it um i think there are a lot of missed opportunities and i'm hoping that this helped other people gain some insight as to all the other great options that you might be missing out on when you encounter a couple that has a no swinger or a well well that would be a totally different thing if they had a no swinger rule that would yeah that would be that would be a no-go but a no kissing you know yeah so remember the journey of exploring intimate connections and understanding diverse perspectives is an ongoing process by embracing empathy respect and open-mindedness we can foster a more inclusive and understanding environment for all individuals, regardless of their choices regarding kissing in the swinger lifestyle.
Until next time. Keep learning, keep growing, and keep having fun. Thank you. Oh, one last thing before you go. If this episode helped you in any way, the single best thing you can do to support the show is leaving a rating and review. It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship education. And we've made it easy. Visit swingeruniversity.com forward slash review. All the instructions are there. Thank you for being part of this community. We'll see you again soon.
