Want to send us a message? In this episode of Swinger University, Ed and Phoebe dive into the nuances of kissing and telling within the swinger lifestyle. Explore the origins of this concept and how it contrasts between vanilla and lifestyle communities. We discuss social expectations, double standards, and when sharing experiences might actually serve a purpose—like building trust, creating safety, and helping others find compatible partners.Discover the fine line between healthy disclosure and TMI, and learn why kissing and telling in the swinger community is often more than gossip. Join us as we tackle questions like:Why might it be essential to share some details with trusted friends?How does sharing sexy stories strengthen bonds in the lifestyle?When should you stay silent to avoid unintended harm?Highlights:Origins Social Standards: Why kissing and telling has been taboo since 1695.Swinger vs. Vanilla Perspectives: How relationship dynamics shape our views on privacy and openness.When to Share: Tips for safely navigating disclosure in tight-knit communities.Public Service Announcements: When sharing can prevent harm or protect others.Tune in to hear real-life examples and valuable advice to make informed choices in your relationships.Hashtags#SwingerLifestyle #KissAndTell #EthicalNonMonogamy #Swingers #RelationshipAdvice #SexPositive #SwingerPodcast #SwingerUniversityHighlight SummaryIntro to Kissing and Telling - Ed and Phoebe discuss how kissing and telling impacts social dynamics in both the vanilla and swinger worlds.History and Double Standards - An exploration of how society s double standards affect men and women differently.Boundaries in Sharing - Understanding when it s okay to share details and when it s best to keep things private.Why Sharing Matters in the Lifestyle - Reasons why sharing can help create safety, trust, and better experiences within the swinger community.Public Safety Concerns - Examples of when sharing information serves the greater good.Practical Tips for Disclosure - Best practices for ensuring your kissing and telling remains respectful and purposeful. Support the showWant More?👀 Watch on YouTube: YouTube ShowFull video versions and interactive live episodes!Bonus episodes, exclusive content, and 🌶️Extras: https://www.patreon.com/SwingerUniversity 🛳️🎉Looking for lifestyle events in your area? T4P is the go-to directory for clubs, parties, and resort events. Browse now at Ticket4Play.com Custom SU T-shirts and gear: Our Amazon StoreSwingerLinks.com - live schedule, special offers*, and our 🌶️links!Our Website - Leave us a message, articles, and sexy products3 Ways to get your question on our show:RECORD it on our website at: https://swingeruniversity.com/contact/EMAIL a recorded voice note to: [email protected]: (916) 538-0482 and leave a voicemail.* We get a commission if you decide to purchase through our links, at no cost to you.
Transcript
We have to talk about something we've been genuinely excited about for months, and our patrons actually got a preview of this already. Jamaica! Yes, we are going back, and actually, we have a great offer for you guys. Yeah, it's Swingcation. It's October 11th through the 18th at Hedonism 2. And if you don't know what Swingcation is, it's pretty easy. Swinger plus kink plus vacation. It's a hosted group with real structure, workshops, lectures, real conversations with experts who are passionate about bringing and bridging that gap between the swinger world and the kink world.
And we're not just going as attendees. We're going as featured presenters, which is exciting. We'll be leading sessions. So if you come, we actually get to hang out with you. Which brings up something we should mention. When you use our code, yes, we got a code, you're not just getting a discount. You're getting the signature swing experience, which means $100 off per person, up to $200 per room, but it also means that we make time for you. An exclusive breakfast, lunch, cocktail hour, or one-hour and one time with us directly, plus more surprise benefits.
Here's something that's really unique. You could actually contribute by hosting a discussion or running a Skillshare. I know it's scary, but if you have something that you want to contribute, that's a big part of why this event is so special. Everyone there has something to bring to the table. All right, details. If you book before April 25th, you save $400. Plus, they gave us that special code that gets you an additional $200, and the special code is SWINGERU-VIP. So book through TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky. That's T-I-C-K-E-T, the number four, play.com forward slash S-W-I-N-K-Y.
And use our code at checkout. And you guys, if you have any questions about the event, the resort, or what to expect, just reach out. I mean, we're here for you. We're happy to help. So once again, TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky, the code SwingerU-VIP. We really want to see you there. Do you kiss and tell? We do. Why would you kiss and tell? And why wouldn't you? Is it socially acceptable? How is it different from the vanilla life versus the swinger life? Welcome to Swinger University. I'm Ed. And I'm Phoebe. And today we're going to talk about kissing and telling.
Yes, it is a controversial topic in the lifestyle and you are either in one camp or the other. Some people try to bridge both camps and it gets awkward. So we're going to help you navigate this minefield of kiss and tell. Well, we wouldn't be Swinger University if we didn't give you a little bit of educational background about kissing and telling. Of course. Turns out this idiom originated in 1695.
It alluded to betraying an amorous or sexual intimacy, is what we all know it to be so that still exists hundreds of years later and it is still socially unacceptable today so we we learn this when we're growing up right you hear about so and so are together theyso are together. They're a thing. They're going steady. They're dating. They're hooking up, whatever it is now. Right. The phrase changes every decade, but the concept is still the same.
And that's you don't really talk about who you're dating or what you're doing when you're dating right like you don't want that to get out right there's there's also this double standard for when you're coming of age right you're becoming more sexually active so for guys you're you're seen as being more experienced and for women you're seen as being a slut. Now, things have changed in this decade, but I still think that double standard exists.
Yeah, I think that younger generations are definitely more open about their sexuality and they're more comfortable with a lot more things, which is yes but there is still a double standard in terms of as an example body count how many people you've slept with right there are a lot of people who still think that a high body count is a bad thing yeah there are there are guys on the internet that I have seen post things that if the woman has had sex at all, then she's not wife material. Ruined. Right. Right. It doesn't work that way, but that's one of the standards that people have come up with.
Yeah. And these labels do follow you through life, especially your young life, even after high school and into college. So it's a hard label to shake if you're socially labeled as loose or I can't say this word. Promiscuous. Promiscuous. It was a song. Why don't you sing it? I'm not going to sing that song. Oh, man, I've busted out in song. It's your turn. Yeah, but I'm not a singer. That's okay. Obviously, this is a swinger podcast, and so we talk about all things kind of ethically non-monogamous, etc.
So there's a lot of stuff that's kind of okay and permitted for us we're allowed to be promiscuous we're supposed to be right but in vanilla life it it still is a little bit different sharing details with your friends typically people don't do that so like if you're dating a woman let's say we're in our 20s and you're dating another woman, let's say we're in our 20s, and you're dating another woman, and I'm your guy friend, and you're really going into the details of this woman that you had sex with. Right.
And you're sharing it with your good guy friend, now it's getting serious, and now you want your guy friend to meet her because she's potentially going to be your wife. Right. That's going to be awkward. What if she finds out that you shared that the best man in the wedding knows all the kinky details of your sex life? Right. It could be a little awkward. Right.
so i get that people aren't divulging all this kiss and tell information in the vanilla life it makes sense to me yeah and i think that the there's that level of what is tmi what is too much information right and i think it's one thing to say that you're dating somebody and something completely different if you're going into pornographic vivid details about what you're doing with that person right now if this is a random hookup i also think that there's a different standard for that too that's true you kind of talk about your your conquests right male or female right so let's talk about how that is different in vanilla life versus swinger life because if you have a random dtf and vanilla life i it seems like the standard is different you you would divulge as a guy maybe i'm using guys i'm picking on them and maybe women do this too you divulge that as you know some really hot sex he was a great lay but he's a friends with benefits but nothing nothing more and you give all the juicy details because you know he's not husband material or wife material, right?
Right. Or you'll never see them again because it was 100% random. Right. But in a swinger situation, you wouldn't do that because you're in the community and it's a tight-knit community. Right. So the random guy that you picked up from a bar, probably never, ever going to see him again. You're not going to travel in the same social circles. Who cares? Right. But in the swear community, that's way different if it's a DTF. Yeah, it is different because it is a closed community, because we're in the secret organization of the pineapple. Right. We kind of know each other or we've know of people.
So even though you may not hook up with them again, you're still going to hear about that and potentially run into them at the next big event or the next big party. Right. Right. So so there's this this is why I think it's important to break down where is it socially unacceptable and why, why did it originate that way? And is that the rule different in the swinger community versus the vanilla community? Right. Right.
So the lifestyle lends itself really to talk about sexy things we're an we're a community that bonds together we're very open when we're with each other and even though most swingers aren't out they're dying to talk about their sexy adventures and sharing it with their new swinger friends and yet some of us are like oh i don't kiss and tell right which kind of puts a a damper on the conversation because you want to share sexy experiences you want to kind of give people some information that you're maybe who you play with or a little bit more about you outside of the regular oh we're soft and we're full swap yeah I mean the whole thing about the lifestyle and and having this kind of open community and sex positive community is we should be able to express ourselves sexually we should be able to talk about the sex that we're having obviously we're having sex with other people so it's not just us talking about our sex life that's kind of boring it's talking about the random sex or the orgy that you had and who was there and the amazing things that you saw why because these people will actually get it they're like oh i missed that party I wish I was there or I went to a similar party and this is what happened at that event.
Let's get into some when you should do it and then we're going to get into reasons why you might do it. OK. All right. So when you should do it. Always with somebody you trust and to do it for a good reason don't do it for nefarious reasons or to make yourself important and i'll go into more reasons about that but yeah and for some of those nefarious reasons the gossipy reasons we did an episode and i'll link to it here about gossip right So here are some reasons why you might want to kiss and tell. Your girlfriend in the lifestyle wants a good single male reference.
How are you supposed to give her a reference if you can't kiss and tell? Right. you've got someone who's looking for a playful couple maybe very very respectful maybe they're maybe they're kink uh driven or bdsm driven and you're looking for that specific thing that they have to offer you would want to disclose that right Going back to the single male, if I were a single male, or even as a couple, I want a good recommendation. Absolutely. And on a lot of the social sites, there's actually a way to give people little certifications. Yes.
So you can give them the seal of approval that they were a good time or they were great fun, great conversationalist whatever however you want to write your review about it but that word of mouth is what gets you in the door for those other parties or with other couples so it's kind of key to having that word of mouth spread. So kissing and telling actually kind of opens doors for you. It does open doors and it actually helps the community.
I can't tell you how many times I've had private house party hosts reach out to me and say, hey, do you have a respectable single male that you've played with that you could recommend for my house party? I've got three unicorns coming, and I need to pack in some single males for them and for some other couples that I know are seeking single males. Right. How are you supposed to do that if you can't get them?
Yep a yeah you almost have to do it right within reason but as they say with great power comes great responsibility so yes so we touched on a little bit of like bdsm or other kinks that you're into maybe you're a size queen how are now we're starting to get into details more right so if someone doesn't know what a size queen is what is a size queen baby you say what a size queen is no you say you say a size queen is a woman who's looking for a man who's very girthy usually it's girth over length but it's it's the girth because they really want to be filled right they want to feel that pressure so that for them is very enjoyable and that's how their body works and what's fun and stimulating for them so they if they're going to spend the time getting ready and make the date blah you all know how this goes that's the experience they want to have yeah maybe aesthetically you really like the girthy look right or that's what you want to suck on or fondle then you have to be able to describe hey yeah this guy's got a really big you know right when is it bad to kiss and tell this is where it starts to get into what the motivation for kissing and telling right so if you're telling someone to give them a good recommendation or to help them that seems like a positive thing but on the other hand if you're seeking to cause damage or harm or spread misinformation about somebody then it's not so good.
Now, here's an interesting question that we should pose to people. If you have a bad experience with a couple or you have something that maybe is dangerous that happens with a couple, that's a bad thing, but is it bad to pass that on? I don't think so because you're not doing it to make yourself look good. You have to be really careful when you're sharing that information. Are you thinking about the safety and well-being of somebody else? Are you thinking about the safety and well-being of the community?
Or are you just doing it to ruin somebody or make yourself look like you're really important or something? Right. Those motivations are completely different. Now, I will say that if someone is motivated by those things, this particular episode is not going to dissuade them from moving in those ways. If you're listening to this and you're one of those people, stop it. It's not okay.
And really think about the overall harm that you're doing to the community and to the people who are around you right so let's give some examples as to what would be okay to say sure i have said in the past they were a very fun couple right it's pretty it's pretty benign it wasn't a lot of great detail they were a very fun couple we really enjoyed their company they're fun in the bedroom they like to laugh and play right what's wrong with that yeah it's fun it's playful it gives a a sense of their personality and potential fun in terms of sexual activities. Yeah.
But it doesn't go into explicit detail. It doesn't out them in any particular way. Right. Well, and I just realized it's obvious we kiss and tell because we do that in our Patreon episodes. And if you haven't checked those out, you might want to and of course of course we do not use role names and we change the venue and we change the time and we change the location so no one can figure it out do this on purpose just to just mess with you. Well, and to protect your identity. So to protect the innocent. I've also said things like, oh, her man is really good at oral. Right.
What other compliments have you said or given to women before I get into the little more touchy things that are okay to say?
My compliments around women in the lifestyle tend to be things like she's attentive or she's very gentle or she tends to be a little aggressive and but but not in a bad way okay can we talk about october for a second oh my god yeah i've been waiting for this we were invited to be guest speakers for two engagements on a six-star crystal cruise ship with 310 lifestyle couples and it sails from montreal to boston during the peak foliage season i'm super excited and honestly i'm really nervous yeah it's kind of a version of like a swinger ted talk that we're gonna have to do oh my god i know and more importantly if you know the brand I don I know.
And more importantly, if you know the brand, it's LLV, Luxury Lifestyle Vacations. You may have seen them and they're sexy playmakers with their fun red hats. This ship, the Crystal Symphony, is classy. butler service for every single room, Michelin rated restaurants, full spa, clothing optional, sensual playrooms, like everything, theme nights and international DJ. So it's luxury and nudity. Oh man, this is going to be great.
The bottom line is we want you there there with us it's 310 couples and like all their vacations they book up fast they really do their vacations are extremely popular so please come with us and in order to find it all you have to do is go to our swingerlinks.com and look for the LLV Sensual Voyage. We hope you'll join us. Right, because some people like that forward aggressiveness. Very assertive women. Yes. And that can be pretty fun and sexy. Let's get into. This is the controversial part.
So these are the these are the kissing and telling that we almost we almost classify them as public service announcements. Yes. They're a little bit of a. Yeah. Yeah.
Let let's before we get into the the because it's a bit of a story let's let's get into stis first and then we'll we'll go into story time about the the big one i've had people kiss and tell to me about other couples with an sti right i'm a little on the fence about what to do with that information right because everybody's risk level is different while i appreciate somebody giving me the information and they probably did so out of public awareness or safety, and I can choose to ignore that information or take that on and do some further research. Like, what kind of STI is it, right?
And how does that impact me? My risk level is going to be different from everybody else's risk level so for me you know when somebody gives me that information I'm not the kind of person that directly just writes them off especially if it's from somebody I don't know really well but if it's somebody I know really well I trust, then it adds a little more weight to it. Right. For sure. Exactly. We've heard couples being kind of outed for having an STI before. And for us, it's always a little bit of a challenge knowing how accurate that information is. Where did they hear it from?
Like if it showed up in a test and they saw the test results, that's clear or not clear, but it's obvious that that's true, right? So I think with this particular one, I would avoid relying on that secondhand statement. And if you think that there's a possibility, just ask for their test results. It's that simple. Right. Or ask them, yeah, straight up. Hey, we've heard. I don't know.
We've never approached anybody and said, hey hey we've heard i i i don't know we've never we've never approached anybody and said hey we've heard you and we've never revealed that about anyone and i i feel like that's very personal that's that's something between us and them let's just say we got an STI you and i get tested we're like holy shit we have an sti now we got to go trace back to individuals we slept with over the last three months because there's an incubation period everybody right so we go back to those couples and say hey we got an sti we don.
We don't know if it's from you, but we need to let you know. This is what it is. You may want to get tested. Please report back to us. You're having an intimate conversation with them and everybody's reaction is going to be different.
So why, if you're having this conversation with somebody and you've got some trust and an open line of communication, I don't see why I would feel the need to broadcast that to the community unless maybe you've got somebody with a known STI and they're lying to people and they're just going around sleeping with people in the community and you feel like that's a public service announcement. Yeah. And the one example that I can think of is the the individual who has a tendency to slip their condom off and have unprotected sex with people. And we have passed that information on to close friends.
So can you imagine combining those two? They had an STI and they're known to slip their condom off. That's really bad. And that's something that as a community, I think people would appreciate knowing what was going on. Right. Yeah. And the condom, pulling off the condom, we have talked about that before. Yeah. That did happen to me. I did get that information, I believe, after I had had sex with this individual.
And I said, huh that's that's interesting that didn't happen with me okay um note to self it it it didn't preclude me from having sex with that individual again but i was aware more aware of that right you were you were sensitive to that happening occurring so i would continually check to make sure it was there now it wasn't you know i'm a little worried about it right so my experience isn't that great because now i've got this thing in the back of my head right right so kind of takes the fun out of it and then and then it did happen right it i flipped over and doggy i couldn't monitor that and oops it magically slipped off right so then we went through the whole testing and abstinence thing and with that particular situation that was one where with really good friends who had mentioned that person's name, we did mention that they needed to be aware that that had happened and you had heard of that happening with somebody else.
And that's one of those things where we didn't broadcast it in the podcast.
We didn't talk about it to everybody, but we certainly passed it along to the people who who we knew directly were in contact with that person right right so it was very on the download is with a trusted individual yes right and and even with that you still feel a little weird about passing that information on because could have been an accident probably wasn't but it could have been right right so there's that fine line between caring for your fellow man and woman and not kissing and telling right yeah it's but i that's where that difference comes in where're public safety to a trusted individual versus broadcasting everywhere for nefarious reasons.
Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, let's get into this story. This other story. So this is one that we'd had conversations with one of our local hot wives. Yes. We love her and we trust her. Yeah. And we've had some great conversations with her about a lot of different stuff. And she is a longtime sex worker and very experienced. So we really value her opinion. She's given me lots of advice over the years. Right. And it had been proposed that the four of us get together. So this lady and another gentleman, and we played with the idea. We're still playing with the idea.
We got a really strange phone call from her one day. I know that you play with this gentleman, and I wanted to let you know what had happened. But it was vaguer than that. The message didn't give us any details. It was just, I need to talk to you. Yeah. We get on the phone with her, and she starts going into detail about this incident that happened with this gentleman who you've had two positive experiences with. Yeah, they were great. 100%. I was recommending him everywhere. Right. Yeah, they were awesome. So for her to start relaying what had occurred was shocking. I mean, I was floored.
I almost thought she was talking about somebody else. Right, because it was such a huge disconnect from the person that we knew, or at least the experiences we'd had with that person. Well, here's the question, Ed. Yes. Do we say what had happened to her?
Let's just say consent for this particular level of kink and impact play was not granted was not given and it came out of nowhere and pictures were sent to us because i had a hard not because i had a hard time believing it i already had a hard time believing it and she graciously sent us photos i didn't request them she sent them right and it was way worse than i had imagined right because we were picturing what it was we were trying to imagine what had happened and the severity of it Right.
And the pictures painted it in a totally different like oh that wasn't that's not a minor thing that's not a that's like wow was there a police report filed i mean like that kind of level yeah it was shocking it was very shocking so she had reached out as a safety concern to to us and i was really appreciative of that and it was you and i kept trying to make sense of it and the only thing we could think of was maybe because you were in the room that it didn't happen with me that it didn't occur and she didn't have anyone else in the room with her and maybe that's why it occurred which makes it even worse but i know Yeah.
What it did set up for us was the solo hot wife play situation or the separate room hot wife situation. We now started to see that there's some risks. You've got to really trust that person. And this was a situation where we go, maybe we didn't know them as well as what we thought we did. And we need to be careful in the future. So if anything, it was a cautionary tale for us because we were starting to experiment more with single males.
And I think it was that situation that made us go, hmm, I think I'm going to have a nice seat in the room and observe for a while or at least be present in the house for those kinds of play situations. Right. And what what ended up happening after their session together, this individual, he, he became very, very distant. He wasn't, he, he wasn't his normal self. His, his pattern of communication had changed. Right.
And I couldn't help but maybe infer that maybe he was ashamed or embarrassed but but he really we hadn't written him completely off the the table right either because he was so fun to play with and i i thought well well let's have another date and we'll we'll have a not a play date. We'll have a drink date. We'll have a conversation and just find out what's going on. But he basically just ghosted us at some point. And so now I can't help but think, well, you know, maybe he found out somehow that she was spreading the word. I have no idea. Yeah. Or just that we knew her and him.
And that was enough of a connection where he thought maybe she would pass that on. And he was too embarrassed. I don't know. Right. Yeah. So. A little bit of guilt involved, which is probably good. Maybe he'll, maybe he'll learn from that experience. Maybe won't do that again that would be fantastic and because otherwise like you said it was a great experience so that was a really good example of kiss and tell for public safety reasons right and once again i love to take in all information, assess that for myself, and information is power.
And so now I'm armed with more information that is potentially unsafe for me. But I still wanted to inquire with him, hey, what happened? We heard this thing. We've enjoyed your company. Let's hear your side. Sure. But we never got that opportunity because he ghosted us, so. Yeah, and I think anytime we've ever heard rumors or, you know, feedback about someone, we always like to confirm, especially when we hear they're a lot of fun. We absolutely have to confirm that because I'm not going to take anybody's word for that. Like, that's just hearsay. I need proof. Woohoo! Absolutely, 100%.
So, this is why we like to kiss and tell. It's got its place in the community. And as individuals, we all love to share sexy stories. We all look out for each other's safety, especially at events. And I think it has, I think it has a place in this swinger community that you can say what you want to say without being too detailed or too graphic. Right. The right level of information. Yeah. Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining us and our community. And as I always say, don't forget your homework. Tell a friend about our show and leave a review and comment.
We'd love to hear your thoughts about kissing and telling. So leave your comments down below. And if you don't want to leave a comment, at least leave us a thumbs up. We appreciate all of you and your feedback and your interaction with our channel. You can also, if you're even bolder and you would like to kiss and tell, we would appreciate you leaving us a voicemail at 916-538-0482. And if you're worried about your voice being recognized, just let us know. We can change it and make you sound like Darth Vader. Or Minnie Mouse. Or the Princess Bride.
Yeah, we can change your voice if you need to. You can also reach out to us at SwingerUniversity.com, our website. There's contact information. We even have a mailing list. So if you want to hear about all the stuff that we're doing, check out SwingerUniversity.com. And as always, keep learning, keep growing, and keep it sexy. Bye, everyone! Oh, one last thing before you go. If this episode helped you in any way, the single best thing you can do to support the show is leaving a rating and review.
It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship education. And we've made it easy. Visit swingeruniversity.com forward slash review. All the instructions are there. Thank you for being part of this community. We'll see you again soon.
