Want to send us a message? Swinging can bring up all kinds of feelings and jealousy and envy are definitely two of them. What is Jealousy? What is Envy? You may find yourself experiencing these emotions in the lifestyle and not know how to interpret or resolve them. Both emotions have positive and negative effects with jealousy having some biological reasons too! Introspection and open, honest communication is key when swinging with your partner in the lifestyle.SHOW NOTES:Jealousy Defined Negative AttributesPositive AttributesEnvy Defined Negative AttributesPositive AttributesJealousy in SocietyEnvy in SocietyJealousy As BiologyListener Email Support the showWant More?👀 Watch on YouTube: YouTube ShowFull video versions and interactive live episodes!Bonus episodes, exclusive content, and 🌶️Extras: https://www.patreon.com/SwingerUniversity 🛳️🎉Looking for lifestyle events in your area? T4P is the go-to directory for clubs, parties, and resort events. Browse now at Ticket4Play.com Custom SU T-shirts and gear: Our Amazon StoreSwingerLinks.com - live schedule, special offers*, and our 🌶️links!Our Website - Leave us a message, articles, and sexy products3 Ways to get your question on our show:RECORD it on our website at: https://swingeruniversity.com/contact/EMAIL a recorded voice note to: [email protected]: (916) 538-0482 and leave a voicemail.* We get a commission if you decide to purchase through our links, at no cost to you.
Transcript
We have to talk about something we've been genuinely excited about for months, and our patrons actually got a preview of this already. Jamaica! Yes, we are going back, and actually, we have a great offer for you guys. Yeah, it's Swingcation. It's October 11th through the 18th at Hedonism 2. And if you don't know what Swingcation is, it's pretty easy. Swinger plus kink plus vacation. It's a hosted group with real structure, workshops, lectures, real conversations with experts who are passionate about bringing and bridging that gap between the swinger world and the kink world.
And we're not just going as attendees. we're going as featured presenters, which is exciting. We'll be leading sessions. So if you come, we actually get to hang out with you. Which brings up something we should mention. When you use our code, yes, we got a code, you're not just getting a discount, you're getting the signature swing experience, which means $100 off per person, up to $200 per room, but it also means that we make time for you. An exclusive breakfast, lunch, cocktail hour, or one-hour and one time with us directly, plus more surprise benefits.
Here's something that's really unique. You could actually contribute by hosting a discussion or running a Skillshare. I know it's scary, but if you have something that you want to contribute, that's a big part of why this event is so special. Everyone there has something to bring to the table. All right, details. If you book before April 25th, you save $400. Plus, they gave us that special code that gets you an additional $200, and the special code is SWINGERU-VIP. So book through TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinkie. That's T-I-C-K-E-T, the number four, play.com forward slash S-W-I-N-K-Y.
And use our code at checkout. And you guys, if you have any questions about the event, the resort, or what to expect, just reach out. I mean, we're here for you. We're happy to help. So once again, TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinky, the code SwingerU-VIP. We really want to see you there. Welcome to Swinger University, your horizontal enrichment program, providing you lusty lifestyle lessons. Here are your hosts, Ed and Phoebe. Hi everyone, welcome back. This is Ed. And this is Phoebe. At Swinger University. How do you deal with jealousy? It is something we hear about all the time.
What you're feeling may not be jealousy. It might be envy. Or both. Today, we're going to break down each of these feelings and provide you with some real-life examples from our own experience. Romantic jealousy is associated with three interrelated intrapersonal experiences. Uncertainty, suspicion, and distrust. this is why when you embark on the journey of swinging, you need to be confident in the solidity of your relationship and don't go into this hobby or lifestyle looking to fix it. Today we're going to break things down. We're going to break down jealousy.
We're going to break down envy. We're going to define it. We're going to see how those two things play out in society and how they play out in a biological way. And then we'll cover a listener email. So Ed, do you want to define jealousy for us? Yeah, let's go ahead and read the definition here. Cool. So here is the Webster's definition of jealousy. The feeling of loss of a relationship, romantic, and friendship. It is a threat to a desired pre-existing relational state.
Tends to be more broad and includes a variety of motions like anger fear and sadness and for reference i added to webster there based on my research okay i made it a little more rounded out gotcha so negative features of jealousy are jealousy centers on feelings of fear that result from a threat or a perceived threat and this feeling that you're losing what you've possessed, what you've had in a relationship. And individuals may become overly possessive and demanding. Itends to come with distrust and fear, uncertainty and loneliness. It's this feeling that things aren't in your control.
They're getting out of your control and you're kind of changing the status of your relationship in a way that scares you. But I think the key thing here is that loss of the possession right the feeling that you possess something that you are going to lose those two things right the positive side of jealousy can be and it's been shown in society and we'll touch on that, that it can show love and affection. It can help you realize how you feel about a person, and it can help you reevaluate your relationship and deepen that commitment.
Some people strive to protect and they maintain their relationships better because of jealousy. And I think we've avoided jealousy because we don't feel like we own each other. Correct. We made a conscious decision to be together. Yes. We chose each other. In fact, that was in our... In our vows. I choose you. Yeah. So it's, it's a conscious decision to, to stick together, to maintain our relationship. Yeah. And it's not like I'm losing you because if I've lost you, it wasn't because of something that was going on in a bedroom with another couple.
right we've got bigger problems right all right so envy envy is something that a lot of people don't really know about when they feel what they call jealousy feelings sometimes it's envy and so envy is a feeling of discontent or resentful longing aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or luck, or the desire to have those possessions, qualities, or luck that obviously belong to somebody else.
Comparing one's own situation to that of someone else you are scrutinizing envy is less passionate and more cognitive right so more introspective and there's an example on the negative that we'll go into of how that manifested for us when we were playing with others. Do you want to talk about negative? Yeah. Again. The negative. So the focus is on longing. This feeling of inferiority and resentment is the strongest when there is a negative comparison of yourself to someone else.
Example is comparing yourself to the other woman or man you're playing with right and so here's the example if or when we were playing with another couple on the same bed sometimes early on or you know sometimes it crops up time to time depending on you know where you're at that day or that time of the month or where you're at in that part of your relationship.
If maybe if you're not particularly feeling confident or connected or connected, uh, with your partner, or you're not feeling a high self-esteem for your own individuality your own self you may be prone to compare yourself to another woman oh she's prettier oh my god her boobs are so big oh my god she's so you know pristine or gorgeous or her skin so There's something, there's some sort of comparison going on, right? Which, you know, starts to kind of erode away or you look at your partner and go, Oh, he looks like he's having a better time than me. And that's envy right there.
Cause you want to have just as much fun I mean why wouldn't you right right and so that's that perception that you know you're someone else is having something that you don't have and I think it's important to recognize that you're having those feelings and then to figure out why you're having them. Right. And we've had those experiences before in play situations with other couples.
Happened with us on New Year's with a couple we were playing with there was this sense of she's having something that I'm not, but I was conscious of it, and I accepted it for what it was and kind of what was going on at the time and realized that it's nothing that Phoebe was doing. It was situational, and so I was okay to deal with it. Right. And envy can kind of snowball on you, and people can strike out against those who make what they think others are making them feel inferior. Right. On the positive side, I'm going to get all philosophical. I am. I'm going to quote Aristotle.
He believed it can actually motivate people to be better, to improve themselves and sometimes be more competitive with the rival. So, for example, you know, you you have this situation, you come back home and you're like, wow, you know, I don't know what happened. I, I, I, you haven't had time to process that emotion, right? Because you've got the hormones flying, the excitement, the adrenaline, you've got a little alcohol in you.
You're just, this is whole chemical of stuff going on the next day or two days later you're like huh I wonder what I wonder what that was and you start to be a little introspective and you start to ponder and you think oh yeah you know maybe I didn't maybe I just didn't feel my I feel like i looked my best man you know maybe i maybe i should work out a little more or something and and then that competitive nature comes back you're like man his pecs were bigger you know what i'm gonna start doing some more push-ups or something whatever it is or like you know what her nails were on fleek man wow you know what i'm gonna next time i'm gonna go treat myself i'm gonna get this bitchin manicure bam there's a competitive right right you know that's the example yeah and sometimes it's just that the couple was hotter or something that you felt perceived right and so that may inspire you to up your game up your game yeah change your hair color hairstyle something all righty so as a researcher i researched a lot on this topic and i did go back to some of my college books, and I found a nice article by Guerrero and Anderson, and I loved what they said and how they summarized jealousy and envy.
So I'm just going to read what they said. The experiences of jealousy and envy often produce negative emotional reactions and self-perceptions. In the case of jealousy, individuals are likely to feel fear due to possible abandonment and relational loss, anxiety related to relational uncertainty, anger in response to valued relationship. In the case of envy, individuals are likely to fear rejection, experience anxiety or despair due to their perceived inferiority, and feel sad and hopeless if they do not see a way of improving their situation.
In both cases, lowered self-esteem is a likely outcome because a negative self-to-other comparison has been made. Jealous individuals generally believe that their partners compared them unfavorably to a rival. Envious individuals make the unfavorable self-to-other comparison themselves. Despite the considerable inner turmoil that jealousy and envy often produce, these emotions are more than purely interpersonal phenomena. Both emotions originate in social interaction and or social comparison.
Both usually have consequences for relationships, and both are expressed in intrapersonal communication.
which is why we talk so much about communication because this stuff comes up all the time you know and you have to be able to talk this out with your partner hey there's something going on with me this is how i feel it looked like this and look like you were doing that and then your partner's like i can understand how it would look that way but here was my perspective and then you just you talk it out back and forth to empathize and hear one another and be there as you go through this process okay can we talk about October for a second oh my god yeah I've been waiting for this we were invited to be guest speakers for two engagements on a six-star crystal cruise ship with 310 lifestyle couples and it sails from Montreal to Boston during the during the peak foliage season i'm super excited and honestly i'm really nervous yeah it's kind of a version of like a swinger ted talk that we're gonna have to do oh my god i know and more importantly if you know the brand it's llv luxury lifestyle vacations you may have seen them and they're sexy playmakers with their fun red hats this ship the crystal symphony is classy butler service for every single room michelin rated restaurants full spa clothing optional sensual playrooms, like everything, theme nights and international DJ.
So it's luxury and nudity? Oh man, this is going to be great. The bottom line is we want you there with us. It's 310 couples and like all their vacations, they book up fast. They really do. Their vacations are extremely popular. So please come with us. And in order to find it, all you have to do is go to ourswingerlinks.com and look for the LLV Sensual Voyage. We hope you'll join us. And remember that most of this, you heard it repeated multiple times through that quote, perceived. So there's a perception, which is all in the eye of the beholder.
So you are seeing something probably differently than other people are seeing it. And it's a matter of expressing your position and and perception of the situation and having your partner be able to explain no that's that's not at all how i was feeling right and it's really wonderful when you have that you can have that introspection and that trust in your partner to, to express your deep feelings, take ownership of what's going on and say, Hey, I'm feeling this way. This is what it looked like to me. Can you help me figure this out? Cause I'm feeling really hurt right now. Right.
And the really great thing is if you can kind of dig through those emotions, you can understand what that underlying issue is. Because it's the emotions that are the feeling that's kind of on top of it. But there's a cause. There's something that's making you think that way. And if you can kind of drill down to that, then you can kind of resolve that issue. Right. And then your partner can be there for you because maybe you, you say, let's take the example of, uh, I felt that Ed was having a better time than me. Well, Ed could say, you know what, uh, what is it that you need?
And I, I could say something like, you know what, I would love it if like every five minutes, you know, you just reach out and grab my hand or you, or you'd look at me. I need more eye contact. I need more touching from you. Could, Could you just reach out and reassure me? You know, maybe it's that. And poof, you know, maybe that's the resolution. Yeah. And some of this is that you have this perception that someone's having a better time than you. And when they give you their perspective on it, they're like, well, no, actually, it was fun, but it wasn't fantastic.
It looked better than it felt. Right, right. But you don't know how that other person's feeling, so it's important to be able to talk through those feelings. Right. So, no, you're not crazy. And, yes, what you're feeling feeling is completely normal and you know once again being able to be open and honest with yourself first and then with your partner is critical in this lifestyle all right let's talk about jealousy as feud in society everybody knows these like. Yeah. It's everywhere. So, you know, it's... Books, movies, the girlfriend gets upset because you watch the other girl's butt go by.
Like, these are the classic stories of jealousy. And it's hammered into us over and over and over like you should be jealous you can't look at another person or you know at some point in society it changed and then you were shamed for feeling that way oh you shouldn't be jealous how like beneath you you know so it's interesting we'll we'll go through the history on how that changed I'll see you next time.
be jealous how like beneath you you know so it's interesting we'll we'll go through the history on how that changed so there was a researcher by the name of clanton who performed an analysis of all the magazine articles on jealousy and found some really interesting trends so around it actually was between 1945 and 1965 jealousy was seen as proof of love or natural and good for the marriage right you're expressing your your strong desire to possess that person yeah and by expressing that jealousy that anger that someone else was getting in the way of that you were kind of reinforcing that passionate right feeling that you have right however women were not supposed to show their jealousy but for men it was perfectly normal and of course once again it was different for women they weren't supposed to interpret their husband's jealousy oh they were supposed to interpret it as love and affection so he's being a jerk yeah but it just means that he loves you it oh that's fine honey he just loves you yeah so then in between 1970 and 1980 so a new generation of articles jealousy was seen as a personality defect this is the the ugly green monster that everybody talks about oh yeah being jealous was something to be guilty about you were thought of as distrustful suspicious or insecure yeah and certainly not able to manage your emotions right like they were getting away from you yeah yeah healthier but also unhealthy perception all at the same time and then in the 90s people are both repulsed and fascinated by jealousy it's a more frequent topic than ever with an explosion of television talk shows and docudramas with jealousy being seen as a defect right what was it the remember all the talk shows that came out what was his name maury maury povich good and then he turned but it was who was before him the the paternity tests and the chairs being thrown people sleeping with each other's brothers-in-law and oh who's the who's the baby's daddy I'll see you next time.
and the chairs being thrown people sleeping with each other's brothers-in-law and who's the who's the baby's daddy there's such train wrecks and everyone is trying to one-up everybody for their ratings oh it's horrible it's absolutely horrible and then you know in the 90s aids became really huge and monogamy became more valued than ever. Right. So, you know, people started to kind of, I don't know. Settle back into traditional values? Yes, that's very well said. That's very well said. So let's contrast this a little bit with envy. In society, yes.
Envy is considered one of the Ten Commandments, or I should say it's in the commandment, Thou shalt not covet another man's wife. It's also one of the seven deadly sins, so anybody who's watched seven knows this one. And in the 1990s, it was socially considered a morally reprehensible emotion. So once again, jealousy, envy, these things were frowned upon societally. Yeah. And what's also really interesting is in individualistic and capitalist countries, U.S. or Great Britain, envy flourishes as individualism naturally because it makes people compare themselves to one another.
Materialism, competitiveness, and status all manifest as envy right this carried all the way through post-world war ii i mean the phrase is keeping up with the joneses oh yeah they're the envy of the neighborhood like these phrases pop up over and over again yes like you've got to have what your neighbor has so you kind of envy it and that's the whole consumerism consumption to excess even because it's drilled into us to buy gotta have the latest coolest phone apple watch you name the device we've all got to have the latest version of it and the thing that you have isn't good anymore because there's a better one that's right there's always a better one so guerrero and anderson state people strive to be praiseworthy and be compared favorably with their peers yet when people appear too praiseworthy they're likely to engender envy from others and tend to be resented and disliked so you got to keep up with them but don't get too far ahead because because then it's bad yeah a little bit of this healthy competition i so remember this with neighbors it was so weird yeah i'd see it on my block so-and-so would get like a lawnmower the newest lawnmower and his neighbor would have to one-up him he'd get the riding lawnmower or someone would get a boat and then he went out and got the better speed boat right it it was stupid it was insanely stupid so both jealousy and envy revolve around desire at their core jealousy's desire focuses on preserving an existing relationship in the face of threats and envy desires focus on wanting something that one does not have yeah that's a pretty good summary now we're gonna go into some of the biological reasons of jealousy which i found fascinating when i was doing some of this research yeah it was absolutely fascinating i loved it all right so you want to start with some of the biological reasons yeah let's go straight into the bonobos here yeah so all primates experience jealousy it is a biological pull and a form of tribal protection our brain builds this mental interpretation and story around the innate nature of our genes, which confuses us when we try to compare it with the urges against what this societal norm is, this programming that we have.
Right. And in gangbang situations go our body goes into overdrive to be that well actually you should probably be talking about this one well to be the winning sperm to impregnate the female yeah yeah there's this interesting relationship where you get and i and i'm trying to remember the term for it but there's this interesting relationship where you get, and I'm trying to remember the term for it, but there's this, there's this like testosterone thing that goes around where all of the men start competing with each other to be that, you know, dominant male, the impregnating male.
So these gangbang situations raise the male sperm count and produce stronger ejaculations. Yeah. So something physically, biologically starts to happen. Right. Because you've got to impregnate the female. Right. You have no control over that. That just happens.
And this is one of the reasons why the the boom boom room the playrooms are so invigorating because there's competing sex going on right right tricks your brain into thinking that you're competing to have your genes passed on This is why nudist resorts typically limit the single men because of this sperm competition and testosterone natural because it naturally goes up which we had talked about and then you mix in some alcohol and then everything gets all wonky and kind of dicey and they get all silver back and start beating their chest that'd be awesome i'd love to see someone start doing that at the pool oh god it could happen so the bigger the competition the bigger the penis humans and this is a very interesting thing have the largest and thickest penis in proportion to their size so obviously horses have very large penises but they're really big animals right so for our size we're the largest we are more socially sexual due to this and therefore the women are more promiscuous i wish women have been socialized not to be promiscuous and they repress themselves which is why this lifestyle is so fun and freeing yeah yeah it's turning it's changing and being in the lifestyle is definitely an awakening to your sexuality it's it's pretty awesome if you allow it to be it's pretty awesome it's okay to be promiscuous as long as you're doing it together with consent.
Right. Consensual non-monogamy is hot. Yeah, that's pretty safe. All right. So we also had some email from listeners in Portugal. And the listener writes, how do I overcome jealousy when I see my girlfriend have an awesome orgasm with another man? And how do I keep it from destroying my ego? Here's why we sail on Virgin. It's adults only no kids screaming at breakfast no family buffet lines just champagne at noon late night pool parties and people who actually want to be there the vibe think boutique hotel that happens to float.
Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you'd actually pay for on land. Plus, when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let's just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous. No wonder Breadcruisers here, just your people. The first thing to share between one another is good communication and listening. Talk with one another about all your concerns and fears. It may be really weird seeing your partner have sex with someone else right in front of you. Especially the first time. Oh, yeah. For some people, this seems really natural and is a turn-on.
It was for me. Right. But for me, it took me about two years to get used to that. Right. And I don't know why. Again, different people, different backgrounds, different perceptions, you know, for you was very normal. For me, it was really weird. And so, you know, you'll never know when you're going to be jealous or not uh ed and i tried to prepare ourselves for these potential moments um that might come up because we had heard about jealousy cropping up in the lifestyle and it was again portrayed as something really negative, right?
And so sometimes when I was feeling envious, I would have, you know, Ed asked me questions. So I'd have him kind of check in with me are you okay how you doing and i had to be honest and being honest was sometimes hard for me i i had to tell him the truth and sometimes that was hard because i i didn't want to affect his good time and i was afraid that if i I was honest, it would keep him from having good time. Right. Ruin the night. Exactly. Exactly. So what we learned is honesty always is, it's, it's just best. It always works out.
And, you know, uh, sometimes now when Ed'll ask if I'm okay, sometimes I might say, hey, you know, I really need you right now. And so then he'll finish giving the attention he's giving with the other woman. And then he'll come over and he'll get all lovey-dovey up on me and give me what I need. And then either it's done for the night with the other couple. Or what happens often is I'm fine. I got what I needed. I'm reassured. And then we go back to playing with the other couple. Pats me on my ass and sends me on my way. Right.
And honestly, it's never been a bad experience for me to take the condom off and go fuck my wife really well. And then be able to satisfy her to the point where she's like, oh, okay, I'm reassured. I'm good. Now you can go have sex with the other woman again. This is a win-win. There's no, there's nothing bad happening here right this is all good yeah i know that's awesome and so you know i i guess regarding you know regarding your ego this would fall on the side of envy and thinking or knowing that your partner is getting something you can't give. Sometimes it's false. Sometimes this is true.
Let's see. A true example would be you might be envious of the man with a black cock because you have a white one. Well, this is an opportunity to self-reflect and become more comfortable with who you are. And then you'll be able to enjoy giving the gift of sharing your partner with someone else because you can't possibly ever give her a black cock because you don't have one right so then a false example would be you may think she's having a better orgasm with the other person than with you but better is relative right and we always We'll be right back.
You may think she's having a better orgasm with the other person than with you, but better is relative. Right. And we always, Ed and I always just say, what? It's just different. Yeah. It's not better. It's not, sometimes it can be worse. Yes. Sometimes it can be worse. Yeah.
But it it's rarely it's hard to quantify better and i think it's different would say would be maybe that particular night this woman was very enthusiastic well that's not a bad experience right but you can't really equate that particular moment with all of the other moments that you've had yeah with your partner right so you have this library this vault of history and experiences together there's no way i also like to think that if she's having a really good time, that's a learning opportunity for you. What is that person doing? The guy or the girl that's pleasuring your wife?
What is this new trick that he has? Maybe it's not a new trick. Maybe it's just a perception. But you might learn something new that you can benefit from. And we have. Yeah, we've learned some new tricks. Several times. Some twirly things. Some flat tongue things.
So that envy component causing you to or inspiring you to improve that's a really good example of that back around to the whole cognitive where it's introspective and but awareness it takes a level of confidence that i could do that too not he's doing something that i could never do right it's probably not true right that that perception is probably wrong right right um but there you go yeah so you know again be honest with the other couple and you know well the other thing i would say is if you're playing with another couple maybe you're're new, be honest with them.
They will be accommodating and understand. You know, you're going to have to let them know what your preferences are anyway. Right. And what your boundaries are.
And, you know, if they're the right fit, they're going to to respect that and most couples understand jealousy or envy can sometimes pop up and a good couple will respect your honesty to stop reconnect with your spouse boyfriend girlfriend lover you know and not be mad about it you know what if they get pissed off and you know kick you out of the house then man that's that's not good i mean good good riddance right honestly yeah i we've never had that we've never even seen that no for the most part people are like just amazing like the best people ever.
Jealousy can be a positive emotion by revealing how much you care and love the one you're protecting. And envy can be a motivating factor and a tool for self-betterment. With either of these emotions, don't let them overpower the other positive feelings and emotions you have for your partner. If you're experiencing them, consider why you are feeling that way and talk with your partner about your feelings. If you went into this together, you need to be able to talk about this together and process it together.
By helping each other understand your feelings, we can process and overcome these feelings of jealousy and envy.
Before you turn off our podcast to take care of all the vanilla things pulling you away please reach out and give us a review i am the first to admit that it's much easier to give a five-star rating which we appreciate but if you could take 43 seconds to type a review we would love it if you want to share a personal story ask us questions or share your comments you can contact us at swingeruniversity at gmail.com check us out at swingeruniversity.com where you can find links to our twitter and instagram feeds thank you so much for listening to Swinger University, your Horizontal Enrichment Podcast.
Oh, one last thing before you go. If this episode helped you in any way, the single best thing you can do to support the show is leaving a rating and review. It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they're searching for relationship education. And we've made it easy. Visit swingeruniversity.com forward slash review. All the instructions are there. Thank you for being part of this community. We'll see you again soon.
