Want to send us a message? Interview with Certified Sex Therapist and Sexuality Coach, Rhoda Lipscomb! We talk about the unspoken Issue of erections challenges in men and orgasming with your swing partner. Support the showWant More?👀 Watch on YouTube: YouTube ShowFull video versions and interactive live episodes!Bonus episodes, exclusive content, and 🌶️Extras: https://www.patreon.com/SwingerUniversity 🛳️🎉Looking for lifestyle events in your area? T4P is the go-to directory for clubs, parties, and resort events. Browse now at Ticket4Play.com Custom SU T-shirts and gear: Our Amazon StoreSwingerLinks.com - live schedule, special offers*, and our 🌶️links!Our Website - Leave us a message, articles, and sexy products3 Ways to get your question on our show:RECORD it on our website at: https://swingeruniversity.com/contact/EMAIL a recorded voice note to: [email protected]: (916) 538-0482 and leave a voicemail.* We get a commission if you decide to purchase through our links, at no cost to you.
Transcript
We have to talk about something we've been genuinely excited about for months, and our patrons actually got a preview of this already. Jamaica! Yes, we are going back, and actually, we have a great offer for you guys. Yeah, it's Swingcation. It's October 11th through the 18th at Hedonism 2. And if you don't know what Swingcation is, it's pretty easy. Swinger plus kink plus vacation. It's a hosted group with real structure, workshops, lectures, real conversations with experts who are passionate about bringing and bridging that gap between the swinger world and the kink world.
And we're not just going as attendees. we're going as featured presenters, which is exciting. We'll be leading sessions. So if you come, we actually get to hang out with you. Which brings up something we should mention. When you use our code, yes, we got a code, you're not just getting a discount, you're getting the signature swing experience, which means $100 off per person, up to $200 per room, but it also means that we make time for you. An exclusive breakfast, lunch, cocktail hour, or one-hour and one time with us directly, plus more surprise benefits.
Here's something that's really unique. You could actually contribute by hosting a discussion or running a Skillshare. I know it's scary, but if you have something that you want to contribute, that's a big part of why this event is so special. Everyone there has something to bring to the table. All right, details. If you book before April 25th, you save $400. Plus, they gave us that special code that gets you an additional $200, and the special code is SWINGERU-VIP. So book through TicketForPlay.com forward slash Swinkie. That's T-I-C-K-E-T, the number four, play.com forward slash S-W-I-N-K-Y.
And use our code at checkout. And you guys, if you have any questions about the event, the resort, or what to expect, just reach out. I mean, we're here for you. We're happy to help. So once again, ticketforplay.com forward slash Swinky, the code SwingerU-VIP. We really want to see you there. Welcome to Swinger University, your horizontal enrichment program, bringing you an educational podcast about swinging. Here are your hosts, Ed and Phoebe. Hi, this is Ed. And this is Phoebe. Today we're interviewing a certified sex therapist and sexuality coach, Rhoda Lipscomb.
She has a doctorate in clinical sexology, a master's in counseling, and a bachelor in psychology. Her education is paired with certifications in sex therapy, marriage and family therapy, as well as clinical hypnosis. She's a member of seven professional boards and associations, and is a licensed professional counselor in the state of Colorado. Rhoda started off working in clinics for 14 years of her 28 years in practice, began adding to her education and training, then started her own business.
She is passionate about helping others embrace their sexuality and counseling those in relationships that have evolved past the societal norm or standard definitions. On a personal note, she has been in an open relationship for 12 years with her husband, and they like to frequent lifestyle cruises and resorts. We are honored to have Dr. Rhoda Lipscomb to our podcast today. Welcome. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. Yay! This is so exciting for us. So today we're gonna, we've got a couple topics that we're gonna talk about.
And one of the topics that you had suggested was this unspoken issue of erection challenges in men. Well, yes, I think a lot of times we don't talk about it much in a lifestyle. And yet, it especially once you're past your 20s, and most of us in the lifestyle are past our 20s, that it does become a challenge. And people often don't know how to really assess it well and figure out what's causing it to happen. Because erection challenges can truly be caused by more than one issue.
And it's easy for men to think, oh, I just need to run to my doctor and get Viagra or Cialis, and that will solve it. And it doesn't always. And there are particular reasons why. So I think it can be helpful for people to understand that rather than get all worked up about what's going on and kind of making their own assumptions. That's interesting that you say that because we've heard in a number of podcasts and we've actually recommended in several of our podcasts about swinger insurance, the Viagra and the Cialis.
And I've had issues at parties where I've been very distracted, especially early on in the lifestyle, and not having that mental focus. You know, things don't work the way that you would expect them to. Right. Right.
And so you're saying then that people will run to the doctor, get Cialis or Viagra, but that doesn doesn't solve the issue so what are some of the other challenges that are you know in front of these men yeah well then it doesn't solve it consistently and then that ends up being the problem and i i even hear stories of guys who then start taking massive doses of either like viagra and cialis at the same time oh my god And I'm just going, oh, my God. You're going to be like a heart attack or a stroke waiting to happen. No kidding.
And so the fear of not having an erection can be so strong in some men. That can sometimes be what happens. So I like to say that really it falls into three categories. It's the physiological issues, it's the hormonal issues, and then it's the psychological issues. So Viagra and Cialis are going to work well when it's a physiological issue.
So if you have something like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, an issue of blood flow, the things that cause blood flow problems, diabetes, someone who's been a smoker for many years, there is that plaque that builds up in the arteries from things like that.
And you have to remember that if the plaque in your large large arteries around your heart you haven't noticed yet the the artery that flows into the penis is a much smaller artery than the ones around your heart so of course if plaque is starting to build up in your arteries you're going to notice that they are first before you ever notice it in other areas so that's why it's a good idea to go to the doctor and try to figure out you know are you dealing with high blood pressure are is this a a cardiac issue that needs to be addressed right so that you're not just avoiding some sort of cardiac issue that it's growing and you don't even realize it's growing in your own body um so that's when things like viagra and cialis are going to work really well right um and and the other issue with blood flow can be that sometimes you'll see a lot of men especially in the lifestyle using cock rings oh yes because the other blood flow issue is that with the mechanics of the penis the blood flows in through the artery and when we're very young when men are very young Thank you.
Because the other blood flow issue is that with the mechanics of the penis, the blood flow is in through the artery. And when we're very young, when men are very young, the little flaps in the veins that shut the blood flow from going back out as it's being pumped in work very well. Unfortunately, as human beings, we don't have replacement parts. Right. And as these little parts start to age, those flaps don't close as well. And so then you have what's called venal leakage, where the veins are leaking a little bit.
So that's why you'll get a nice firm erection to start, and then it starts going down. Ah. Or you don't get as firm an erection at 45 as you got at 20. Right. It's kind of like your eyes getting bad. Yes. The eyes starting to go bad and other little parts that start to wear. Exactly. Start to break down.
And so that's when a cock ring can help because then it, that pressure across the very top of the penis close to the body will kind of push down on those veins and and keep the blood in there and so for those kinds of you know physiological problems those sort of solutions can work well either the viagra the cialis and a cock ring you're probably going to be really good to go right right um if it's hormonal issues then it's something where you're really going to want to see more of a urologist not necessarily just your general practitioner you want someone with a much more advanced education in in male sexuality male genital issues so hormonal you're going to start to see symptoms not only um erection issues but you're going to see symptoms such as um loss of uh first morning erection the morning wood is either going to be non-existent or much less with hormone men will have trouble sleeping uh they may be a bit more lethargic, feel depressed.
Yes. Yeah, because without that higher amount of testosterone, there's a lot of effects within the whole body of a man that happens. So you'll notice a lot of those different types of problems if it's hormonal.
And then I recommend going to, I there's a lot of different um clinics that have been set up these days for you know low t they advertise low t and some of them are good some of them are not i'm sorry i always like to warn people make i would really if you have the insurance and can afford it i would highly recommend just going to a full urologist to make sure you you're getting the right assessments the right tests run um yeah that would that would be the first line of defense um and then you're probably going to see a big difference now psychological problems or what we like to call performance anxiety again that is more about the anxiety this that worry about well what if i don't get an erection what if i or you're being like like you said ed that being very kind of looking at all the things around us especially in the lifestyle that when guys start out there is so much that you're not used to having in your typical sex life right couple right next to you on the bed or on the bed next to you or you know just there's so many sights and sounds and it can be very distracting right yes very much so and i think a lot of them put great pressure on themselves um with a brand new partner there is this pressure to perform yes pressure to impress yes which comes not only from the men but it also often comes from the women and i hear a lot of stories of from men in the lifestyle who will say they had trouble with an erection and they have literally had some woman go off on them wow is angry she is berating them as if somehow this is about her right she takes it and mentally is like i'm not attractive enough i'm not good enough that's why you're not getting this immediate heart erection and then women put all these pressure on men too and let's face it penises do not respond well to a lot of pressure i was just going to say you, getting yelled at really makes me hard.
I just, you know. I know. It just doesn't for most men. Unless you have a real kink for that, which that's a whole other issue. So, yeah. So, sometimes it is, as women, we need to understand that when a man's not getting an erection, especially in his 40s and 50s, it's not necessarily about us. Yes. Most of the time, it's not about us. Yes.
And we need to be a bit more understanding, because especially as women, I mean, I don't know about you, Phoebe, but I know for me, if the guy's not getting an erection, but he can maintain doing other things, like he can do oral, he can do manual, you know, because I always want to look at a guy and go, really, did your mouth and your finger stop working too? Right. Come on. Like, no, you have other tools in your toolbox here. Absolutely. Absolutely.
It's not just about your dick exactly exactly yes and yeah and so for a guy who can do that oftentimes if he can stop worrying about his penis yes the first thing to do is kind of to take a deep breath and go okay let's just shift gears and we'll go do something else and try not to think about it right yeah get back in your body yes it's a very body and sense you know all your senses experience you know focus on what you see that you think is arousing what you feel what you hear what you smell what you taste yeah focus on that and stop thinking about your penis and he will probably come back on his own yes yeah yes yes and we i guess we've had i'm not sure why our experiences maybe it's just we've had this honest exchange with individuals where it it's fun and it's open and it's honest so if if there is a situation where another playing with, you know, maybe he's not hard.
You know, we kind of laugh. We're just open. We're like, hey, you guys want to take a snack break? Or we just shift and, you know, we pile up on one woman and everyone, you know, it's kind of this, we just talk about it.
Like, did someone want to take a break or let's try this or in the beginning we were so overwhelmed i'd be like oh my gosh okay i'm really overwhelmed by all this sensory input i just need a like a little three minute break you just to kind of calm down and everyone laughs and we all take a breath and we grab a drink of water we go back at it again you know so i think just that honesty helps keep things light and helps people relax and they it's the reset right it really it really is um and that makes a huge difference um but sometimes you know in my practice if i if i have a guy come to me with a lot of performance anxiety and especially if it's been going on for a while now it starts to really get in his brain yes and so every sexual experience he starts to enter into he's he's thinking about it he's concerned about it and then we have to do a lot more uh work on the anxiety right um teach him some more tools to deal with the anxiety um and sometimes that's where the clinical hypnosis comes in is doing some hypnosis sessions Yeah, yeah.
teach him some more tools to deal with the anxiety and sometimes that's where the clinical hypnosis comes in is doing some hypnosis sessions yeah to to remind his subconscious mind that he knows how to do this right like that he doesn't have the hormonal issues he doesn't have physical issues this really is all an anxiety issue because if you're anxious enough, your brain will override however aroused and excited you are. It becomes that fight or flight response, right? Where you're shifting more into, oh my God, how do I get out of this? Yes. Yeah.
It's because you're getting that very strong fear emotion in the primal level of the brain right like what people call the the caveman brain yeah the triune brain yeah and you you strike that fear emotion at that level of the brain and you literally cannot reach your higher brain functions yeah you can't you can't reach your reasoning and your logic and that stuff and you've got to calm yourself down because that fear is telling you i i've either got to run away i've got to fight something i've got to freeze so some predator doesn't see me or i've got to just literally flop on the ground like i'm dead and hope the predator will be It's a very primal brain function that's just hardwired in all of us yeah and it also seems kind of pavlovian right where you you kind of trigger that response every time you're in that situation and so every time you get into that situation you trigger that response and it becomes kind of this feedback loop which is why this service that you i mean you know that you have the is is is a great option for those individuals that just can't get past that roadblock they still want to be in the lifestyle they can't seem to move through that and this helps get them over that so that they can still you know know, enjoy this experience with their partner.
Right. Yeah. And, and that's when, if it is something that is hormone, I mean, that is performance based, you're going to then, you're going to want a full sex therapist. You're not going to want just your general average therapist who deals with depression, anxiety, and stuff.
Like you want somebody who's more trained in sex therapy who who understands who gets it yeah yeah and especially when i do hypnosis it's not like it's a long-term uh thing it's it's really a few sessions and they're fine that's good that's good to know i didn't really it's pretty simple um it's it's kind of one of the easier things to deal with than a lot of other things yeah i suppose it's not deep-seated childhood issues right or things that have been ingrained for years and years it's it's probably pretty recent so that makes sense that makes a lot of sense that's pretty cool now with the psychological issues with this kind of anxiety driven um, have you seen this or heard that Viagra can kind of counteract some of that stuff?
Like, is it a little bit of a buffer, or is it just, look, if you're kind of overwhelmed by this, seek professional help? It depends on how overwhelmed you are. Gotcha.
Sometimes the Viagra can help a little bit because again it's giving you that psychological crutch part of your brain saying oh i took this pill so it's going to be okay there you go so it's like a oh what do they call that in a controlled study uh placebo it's it's almost placebo right like it triggers that psychological response but fun and the problem is that then it will it will not work consistently enough yeah because if then they keep on that mental track of worrying about it it'll work one time and then not the other and now it puts them back into that fear of oh now i can't count on this again right and then they start taking you're fearful enough you can override the viagra yeah yeah i can see that wow interesting it is amazing what the human brain can do not always in our favor yeah yeah they do say it is mind over matter right like you can visualize things and kind of make them happen with your brain.
With enough training and repetition, you can actually envision that stuff happening. So, yeah, I guess you can go the opposite direction, too. Yes, you can. Oh, my goodness.
So, how many men in general do you think have this challenge is it just all men and it comes and goes and it's variable or what well i mean erection issues are going to affect all men at some point in their life right um i always tell people that all these various types of sexual functioning problems i don't like using the word dysfunction because it sounds like there's something wrong with you exactly and there really isn't i mean whatever sexual functioning problem you're dealing with all of us are going to experience that at some point in time every man is going to have erection issues at some point they're going to ejaculate sooner than they want later than they want they're going to have trouble with desire issues it's going to be way high way low and the same with women you know we're going to have problems with lubrication we're going to have trouble with getting aroused trouble with pain from penetration again desire issues it's just it's kind of universal for us And it's more about how you deal with it right and it is the fact that it happens right so there's a bit of figuring out is it really a problem or is it just something i mean like let's face it the pandemic last year a lot of us our sex drive has not been exactly the highest right yeah because there's been so much stress going on in the world oh gosh yes and the more stressed we are the less the less we are to really want a lot of sex right right yeah so it is gonna it it will change over time it happens to everybody could happen in the beginning can happen as you age so over the course of your swinger lifestyle not to mention your normal lifestyle you will be faced with this challenge and and like you said it's a matter of how how you deal with it so we had another interesting question.
Do you think men who have a sexual function challenge actually get into the lifestyle as a way to fulfill the needs of their other partners? so say they actually have edd and you know they they you know want to to get into the lifestyle because they want they want to be in a sexy environment they want to see that pleasure in their other partner and they go to lifestyle events and this is a way of of fulfilling a different need in their life, in their lifestyle. Okay. Can we talk about October for a second? Oh my God. Yeah. I've been waiting for this.
We were invited to be guest speakers for two engagements on a six star crystal cruise ship with 310 lifestyle couples.
And it sa from montreal to boston during the peak foliage season i'm super excited and honestly i'm really nervous yeah it's kind of a version of like a swinger ted talk that we're gonna have to do oh my god i know and more importantly if you know the brand it's llv luxury lifestyle vacations you may have seen them and they're sexy playmakers with their fun red hats this ship the crystal symphony is classy butler service for every single room michelin rated restaurants full spa, clothing optional, sensual playrooms, like everything, theme nights and international DJ. So it's luxury and nudity.
Oh man, this is going to be great. The bottom line is we want you there with us. It's 310 couples and like all their vacations they book up fast they really do their vacations are extremely popular so please come with us and in order to find it all you have to do is go to our swingerlinks.com and look for the llv sensual voyage We hope you'll join us. I think there certainly are a number of people who probably do get into the lifestyle. I mean, exactly how many, I'm not sure we ever really know because I don't know of any studies that really have asked those questions.
But I certainly know just from people I've talked to that different people, you ask them like what brought you into the lifestyle you know it is sometimes for that you know if after 20 years of marriage and you know an exclusive relationship um yeah you need you need more and it isn't that you don't love and adore your spouse but you know it's kind of like if you had to eat the same thing three meals a day for 20 years at a certain point you can be like oh great that again as much as you might love it you know it's going to get tiring and it's you can only do so much to spark it up. Right.
Right. At some point you've learned pretty much everything you've, you can about that one individual. Yeah. Yeah. Like how much, how many books and podcasts do you see in the monogamy world where they're talking about ways to spice up your sex life because we know that after a number of years with the same person yeah yeah you can't even leave the grocery store checkout without glancing over at cosmopolitan telling women how to have better sex like it's it's all in there about spicing up your relationship or, you know. It's every issue. Yeah. Yes. Every issue. Yes. Every issue.
And it's now even started in some of the men's magazines. Yes. Men's health. You'll see all these issues on sex and how to be a better lover and how to have a better erection. And, like, we're all bombarded with these issues that sex has to be better and last longer and be more intense. It's like, oh, so much pressure. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Earlier, we touched on the example you'd given about a woman that was just really irate that the man, you know, couldn't have an erection and didn't, didn't satisfy her.
How, I mean, this goes to those expectations that you may run into with, with other play partners. What about the orgasming expectation out there? Do you have a lot or experienced a lot of people with this expectation? And this creates a lot of internal anxiety that they must orgasm with their swing partner or they must bring them to an orgasm. Otherwise, they're not a good swing partner. Right. Have you heard anything about this? You know, I certainly have encountered it on both sides.
And I think there there is this again this pressure to perform and to have this it has to be this peak experience every time yeah well not really realistic no um and so many people don't quite understand that like orgasm really originates in brain yeah yeah again it's being in your body it isn't all about the genitals i mean part of the reason orgasms frequently come from the genitals is because they're just so rich with so many thousands of nerve endings however we have nerve endings all over our body and it's possible to have orgasms from being stimulated through parts of our bodies that have nothing to do with our genitals at all.
Yes. Fortunately, I learned at a very young age that I could orgasm from all sorts of parts of my body. Yeah. Because it is kind of being in the experience and being in your body and enjoying it and not being in your head. Because I think so often people are far more in their head than they are in their bodies.
Difficult to orgasm if you're in your head and you're thinking too much about whatever it is, whether you're wondering what your partner is doing on the other bed, whether you're distracted by everything that's going on, whether it's a new person, you're like, oh, they're just not doing it the way I like it. And how do I tell them how I like it without sounding like a biatch? So it can be very stressful.
And then, again, you're out of your body you're not in your head yeah and so yeah you know the best sex is going to be the times you're in your body and you let go of whatever it is you're thinking about and let it flow over you yeah we've we've had our best experiences when we were just having a good time just relaxed yeah great conversation things kind of swing in that direction and you know you're not trying to plan it out you're not even trying to figure out what the next move is to get them into the room to write like that whole planning that closing the deal thing right and when it's been kind of natural and organic and just us having a good time uh in the evening we usually have great sex right right and i've also experienced i decided somewhat early on and this challenged my confidence was to be vocal because I was having experiences that were just like really this is what it's all about like that did nothing for me like there was a dick in my vagina and I felt nothing I'm like well like so I had high expectations I'm like I'm gonna go I'm gonna have sex with this pseudo random person, right?
That I don't know. And it's going to be amazing. And then I was like, wait, what, where did this expectation come from? Right.
And so, it was silly for me to have that expectation because I mean, we've only been together what five, you know, or engaging for an hour in conversation and to have them know all my buttons bells and whistles is a is unreasonable so i decided you know what there's no way no one's going to know all that there i mean ed knows all my bells and whistles that's great but i need to educate that other person if i want to be in charge of my own orgasm and have a great experience, I can help with that and say, hey, I really like when you twist my nipples or I really like them pulled on hard, but I don't like biting.
You know, you can gently give these, even before you engage, you're like, this is one of my turn-ons and guarantee that guy's going to do that for you and you're like wow this is great so I started off slow with that and then I was like okay because I wasn't confident about voicing that without sending like like you said a biatch so I'm like how do I say it gently to not wound the the male ego and so I was like oh and so I experimented with that and then you know when someone's between my legs i'm like oh could you use the flat of your tongue you know or a little slower a little faster and it but it worked for me it was a challenge giving direction because i wasn't used to being vocal in that way so right I grew in my sexuality got what I wanted they felt good by giving pleasure so we all win yay so yeah and we forget how how much we're still even though we've become swingers and we've come much more sexually active in many ways, we still have those early childhood and early adult messages that come from family, that come from friends, that come from the media about how we're supposed to be or how the other person's supposed to be.
And they're in there in the back of our minds that we don't even realize they come up until those moments where we're going, oh, I'm supposed to tell them what I want? Oh, that feels really uncomfortable. A good girl doesn't do that. Right? A guy should just know. Right? Why would we think a guy should just know? Why would we think that? I mean, half the time, we don't even know their names.
So, I mean, I don't know how we would expect to know where their buttons are and what they like in the bedroom i know it's so weird that the human brain how those things would float up and we would have ed and i would have all these conversations and i go you know these random things would come back from like years past and i go my god i thought i addressed that that challenge in my life Thank you. I go, you know, these random things would come back from like years past. And I go, my God, I thought I addressed that challenge in my life years ago. Why is this coming up now?
And then I had to be at peace with that coming up again because it felt like I was going backwards. And I'm like, no, you're not going backwards. It's just a small little thing that's popping up. And so, we just talk it out and we're able to move past it. But it surprised me. I was like, wait, where did that thought come from? That's been long ago. It's so weird.
That old programming for me from parochial school and, you know, what a good girl does and what you should and shouldn't do and what's right and what's not right you're like really wow i thought i totally deprogrammed all that stuff oh but that's why i love this lifestyle because you grow sexually and you grow in other areas. Like your brain, your mind expands, your body expands. Like all your experiences expand. It's been a wonderful, wonderful, awesome experience. Here's why we sail on Virgin. It's adults only.
No kids screaming at breakfast, no family buffet lines, just champagne at noon, late night pool parties, and people who actually want to be there. The vibe? Think boutique hotel that happens to float. Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you'd actually pay for on land. Plus, when you're looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let's just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous. No wonder Bread Cruiser's here, just your people. It is. It's a great experience, and it really can help people grow so much. Yeah. In ways they don't even realize at times.
oh my goodness any other any other well i was going to ask some other questions because we've we've been talking a lot about our experiences yes so we introduced you and you and your husband are are also part of this lifestyle you're not just a professional helping the rest of us, crazy sex people. You happen to be one of us. So tell us a little bit about that. How did you get started in swinging?
Well, you know, we got started, it was a number of years after we'd been married, and we had had some challenges within our own own sex life um and you know i i think sometimes especially when you do some of the stuff that i do you know within my own profession there is this sort of embarrassment or shame to have to admit that you might have challenges in your own sex life because people hear what you do for a living and they think oh Oh have like the best sex life ever right you know and people would look at my husband and be like you are so lucky and we're sitting there going uh-huh yeah yeah lucky it's kind of like the massage therapist of what you know and they're like oh my god you must get massages all the time and you're like no no i don't just because he's a massage therapist i don't know yeah um yeah so we had some big challenges and and we actually separated for a period of time it wasn't because we didn't love each other we just couldn't figure out how to how to work it out and we managed and during our separation i i kind of experimented with swinging and because i'm i'm the more adventurous of between my husband and i my husband's a sweet boy scout i always he's only he's that he's a swinger like it's the only kink the man has guilty as charged i jokingly refer to him as the vanilla swinger.
That's awesome. I love it. Yes. And he's sweet and dutiful, but no, he's just not experimental. So when we came together, he knew about this and he said he wanted to try it. I'm like, okay, well, I'm not just throwing you into the deep end of the pool here. So we just started going to some swinger meet and greet. So there was no sex, there was no nudity. There was no expectation or pressure. He just got to meet people. And he got to see that all of his ingrained beliefs about what it means to be a swinger and what these people were like.
right you know because i mean of course our first swinger event he was terrified that like somebody was going to grab him rip his clothes off and throw him in the middle of an orgy right yes and yes and the women were just he had no idea what it was going to be like but you know we went and we we met people and some of whom are still good friends of ours and And he could see they're like, Oh, well, they're just like us. Like, right. Yeah, I've been trying to tell you that. They're not ravenous sex fiends. They, they, you know, they have jobs and families and respectful people.
They're respectful people. Yes. And so I slowly worked him into it that it that way and so eventually when we had our first experience you know it i i let him i let him choose i let him go you know it kind of happened and yet there were there were two other couples and like our first experience was actually a six-some not a four-some and i was a was a little anxious myself because I'm going, okay, this is going to be his first. But the other women were just so, like, kind of at him and going, oh, come on, let's all go. We've got a hotel room. We can all go. It'll be fun.
And I just looked at him like, it's up to you. You decide. No pressure. Yeah. He said, no, I want to do it. I'm like, okay. That's so cool. And it went very well. And it was a very fun experience. And there was about a year of transition where for about a year I was very anxious going, oh, my God, one day he's just going to tell me he doesn't want this. And he's going to say no. And now what am I going to do? Because I can't go back. Right. Yeah. Pandora's box is open. I've gone too far. I can't go back. Yeah. Yeah. And our first trip to Desire was about a year after we started swinging.
And it was off the charts. We went with no expectations, but it was off the charts.
I don't know if you've ever been to the Desire in Rivieraa but i'm one of their buildings their hot tub is this huge 50 person hot tub on the roof of one of the buildings and has a swim up bar and it's it's just huge and about twice a day it fills up with everybody so like late afternoon and then later at night and so we're there late afternoon and it's just full of people and everyone's on and he's a salesman so he's very easy to talk to and he talks to anyone and yes very friendly and he's chatting with everybody and i'm over in another part of the hot tub chatting and i glance over and i see he's got this woman up on the edge of the hot tub with his face buried between her legs.
And I'm like, oh, good, he's having fun. I kind of go back to whoever I was talking to. And I look over a few minutes later and now it's a second woman. That's awesome. And then a third and then a fourth. I counted five. Oh, my God, that's awesome.
And so then was I looked at the clock it was timed I'm like oh we gotta go we gotta get ready for dinner and and so I pull him out the hot tub and we're walking down the stairs to our room and I looked at him I said you had five women on the edge of the hot tub like my god you had the pussy buffet And he gets this sort of shy, like i did i'm like no you don't give me the shy little boy like no you you have graduated oh yeah i am not worrying about you anymore right that's right i know my little bird fly because i'm done worrying about you no kidding that's awesome oh my god training wheels are off now yep oh yeah you got them lined up like that wheels came off oh my god that's awesome and yeah it's and yeah it's it's been quite an adventure so we've done desire a few times when we've gotten into some of the swinging cruises which are you know unless you really hate cruises i really recommend them they are just a blast yeah because you've got like four to six thousand swingers on the same ship like you're gonna find somebody oh yeah like absolutely we had that experience we've been on one swinger cruise and we by the time we warmed up unfortunately it was like a day or two into it we kind of wasted 24, 48 hours, which was unfortunate, but by the time we warmed up, unfortunately, it was like a day or two into it.
We kind of wasted 24, 48 hours, which was unfortunate. But by the time we warmed up to it and we'd found the solarium, we were in there like every night. It was so much fun. We had a blast. Yeah. Yeah. And then it is a blast. It doesn't even matter where this ship is going. No.
I don't care you get off a few times and be like oh okay whatever i'll buy some trinkets but i'm gonna go back to the ship now right i know same back to the naked fun yeah the naked fun yeah i mean it's just so relaxing to be like on a pool deck being able to lay naked by the pool swim in the pool naked even though they're not having sex on the pool deck because they don't allow that but it's just the freedom to relax and be yourself and you're around like-minded people and everybody's happy right yeah everybody on the ship is happy i mean i know even if you talk to the staff the staff will be like oh we love you guys because you're all happy and you're not cranky at the bar or at the dinner.
When can you come back? I know. We have a totally different focus than the quality of the food on a swinger cruise. Oh, yeah. It's not about that. As long as it's halfway decent, that's all we care.
We just need calories, you know, because we just need to refuel so we can get back in oh my goodness yes yeah so they are yes yeah we we're we are crossing our fingers and our toes on both hands and feet that november cruise will actually happen although we're We're being told it may not yeah we're being overly optimistic we suspect yeah yeah so far i've heard the one in november is going forward but i haven't heard anything that won't i'm hoping it does the guidelines are a little vague at this point and um, yeah.
They're starting to open things up so that cruises can go November 1st, but that's cutting it really close. Yeah. That's really close. Because it's mid-November. It's cutting it very close. Yeah. I know. Well, and if they require that everybody be vaccinated so we can have full reign, then fine. Absolutely. No problem with that. Exactly. Go get your shots, people. I know. It's for a good cause. It's for a good cause. That's right. We all want to play again. We're like anxious little kids looking at the playroom going, I want to play. I want to play. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Oh, my goodness.
Well, Ed, Rhoda, anything else we want to add to this lovely interview? Any other questions or points that you would like to make for our listeners? You know, I think the biggest point to make is to remember to not put too many expectations and too much pressure on yourself. Yeah. You know, to go into every party, every club, every swing event, keep your expectations low. Yes.
If you just go and you meet some fun people and you have some great conversations that is a win that is a good night especially after you lockdown it's really a great night yeah and if more happens that's that's icing on your cake yeah but but don't don't spoil your evening because you didn't have this amazing orgy that you know you got to direct and like no no take those expectations off the off the table because the best sexual experiences we've ever had happened just organically yeah there was no pressure nobody was pushing nobody was saying this had to happen or that happened they just happened yeah yeah those are the like those are the ones when i think back in my memory bank those are the ones that stand out of like oh wow that was that was a night that i'm going to take to my grave like it'll be on my deathbed and remembering that orgy and this one place and there were 12 of us on the bed and oh wow right just Thank you.
That was a night that I'm going to take to my grave. I'll be on my deathbed and remembering that orgy in this one place. And there were 12 of us on the bed. And wow. Right. Just magic. I'm having memories flood back. Right. Right. As you're describing that. Yes. And it's those times when you're not pushing it. You're not trying to make it happen. It just happens. I know. And we always talk about don't have expectations.
And's it's hard not to because we it is we we have them so we know what to expect going into a situation it's like it's it's part of our being to to you know you know the sky is blue and the sun rises and then sets like we expect certain things so it's how we live and walk through our life so it's it's hard not to especially when you spend all that time getting ready you hired a sitter you know you're going out like and you want something magical to happen not just your average going out to dinner date and so it's kind of it's hard to to not but i wish we it is had a magical mental technique where we could tell people think of pineapples or something think of this and there's a difference between hope hoping that something will happen, and the pressure of trying to make it happen.
Yes. And stay in your hope part of your mind. Like, I hope it'll happen, or it'll be a great night either way. Yeah, that's a good way to phrase it. Make those connections. Make those friendships with people. Some of our absolute most wonderful friends are people we know from the lifestyle. Yeah. You know, I like to say, six years ago, we moved into a new house that we had built. And as we were building a way to sell our old house and go live in the apartment for six months while it was being built. And when we moved into the apartment, it was literally December 26th. Oh, wow.
And one of our lifestyle couple, a friend of ours, I told them like the week before that we were moving we're doing this and i wasn't asking them for help and they offered to help oh wow that's great that's awesome i said that like really great friends are when they learn you're moving they offer to help they don't wait till they're asked yes and those are our lifestyle friends. Like these are the people who we have these very deep connections to and I know are there for us when we need them. And I don't always find that in the vanilla world, especially as you get older.
Because people get so busy and they're worried about their careers and their children and their lives and their aging parents, as we get to a certain age, you know. And, yeah. That's true. It's really important to remember that what keeps people in the swinging lifestyle are those connections you make. Like, we go into it for the sex and the variety and all that fun stuff.
But what keeps us there, the ones of us that have been there for in there for like 10 12 15 years it's because of these connections we make with people absolutely that we find we're having such a hard time making in our regular vanilla life absolutely yeah well it was great talking to you this was excellent information i'm sure our listeners will benefit from this directly and and indirectly and hopefully uh as a direct result people will have a little bit better sex yes and and just to enjoy it more and really appreciate the sex when it's great and when it's just like oh that was nice was nice.
That's okay, too. That's right. I mean, okay sex is better than no sex at all. I agree. I absolutely agree. Well, thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. And maybe we'll do this again. Yeah. Yeah. This would be great to do again. Yes. I would love to come back. Yeah. Oh, cool. Maybe after the pressure from your book, your anxiety from your book is relieved, we'll have you back on and you can pitch the book. Oh, yeah.
Well, this next book isn't probably one that really, for most of the swinger world, it's more for a unique niche I have that is a whole different area of human sexuality. So probably not too many in the swinger world would be part of it. I just made the assumption I was all on board with more sex. Oh, well, yeah, this is a very different, a very different niche. Let's just put it that way. Well, fantastic. Well, best of luck with that. And we really appreciate you spending some time with us today to impart your knowledge. Absolutely. I appreciate you having me on.
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