Calcan.. agreed with new post.. we love all our FWB's.... who we go out alone with and sometimes party all together with.. yes it is that trust, confidence to find the right people.. and overall communication in our circle that makes our journey fantastic when we have them in our life!
After a night out alone and we reconnect with each other....is even better!
Re-reading our OP to this thread, do regret some of that vent. The lifestyle has always amazed us in how quickly circumstances and perceptions change for us. It's an ever-evolving process. As of now we're both very comfortable in the place we're at. Not at all as consumed with the why's and why not's as we used to be. Simply enjoying the friendships we've made. Yes, there are still a-holes out there. But we've both found trusted, great long-term situations separately. It does take considerable effort and some hard times to find that, but that opportunity is out there for anyone willing to be patient. Certainly wouldn't want this thread to dissuade anyone from seeking the same. You just have to take the time to properly vet the candidates and find what works for you. It's there. Trust in that.
We're in a open marriage so we don't call it a HALL PASS. We just go on dates with other people. We've been doing it since May and so far it's been great for us and made our sex life waaaay better than ever! Our health is better too as it motivated us to exercise and lose weight since we're both on the 'market' in the dating scene.
Cool thread. Sorry I didn't notice it earlier.
Here is our definition of hall pass:
Either one of us can have sex with anyone at any time. We do not have to let the other know beforehand. We do have to let the other know after the fact. We have had this in our quiver for the last 10+ years.
Now, what does that mean practically? Here are some scenarios that my wife has had: She took a trip back east to see her family. She was there for 4 nights. Prior to going, she and I went through SLS to find guys who looked like they would be a fit. She narrowed it down to 10. I started the conversation with them. I explained exactly what was going on. If they weren't total idiot/douchebags during the responses, I gave them her number and they talked. She sent me post sex pictures every night :) There are a few single males that we have played with in the past. One lives in walking distance of where she used to work. She would go over for a nooner during her lunch break. She has little to no desire to go for a weekend with someone.
For me, there is a 24 year old that I had hooked up with at a party my wife and I attended. Her and I were texting each other. She got really flirty. She came to my office and we had fun. I told my wife after the fact. She said, "Glad there is no one in your building and you got that sofa bed for a reason!" There isa SF we have been with on occassion. We were flirting and I suggested I'd get a room for us. She agreed. She lives 40 miles from us. So I got it close to her, she met me at the hotel and we went to town. I sent my wife pictures after the fact. There is a couple we know who live in LA. I, used to, have to go to LA a lot for events. If I had to be at the event early in the morning, they would let me sleep over in their guest room. We would have sex. I have little to no desire to go for a weekend with someone.
So for us, this works. My wife has sent to me to parties solo because she got sick. We have yet to meet all these horrible people that others describe. We do not go out looking for this. If it happens, it happens.
Back in the 90s, we ran into a couple that was not married to each other but married to others. It was very interesting. One of their spouses had a debilitating disease and the other was in a car accident and paralyzed. This is so long ago, it was in an AOL chat room that they approached us. We talked for a bit and once they felt we were a fit, explained their situation. One of the spouses was completely OK with it and encouraged it. The other spouse knew it was going on but didn't want to know about it. Their respective spouses knew of each other's situation and what their spouses were doing. I know that is convoluted :) The 'couple' said that we could verify if we wanted with the spouse who knew. That the other spouse, not possible to verify. I figured that they were either incredible bullshit artists or were telling the truth. I called the spouse. I talked to the spouse. It was the female who had the disease. She verified everything. She said that she encouraged him to still be sexual and that he is a great husband and father. She told me about the other spouse who was paralyzed. She said that he had not come to terms with his situation. She said he knows his wife goes out and has sex, is not pissed about it, but doesn't want to bring it up. She felt it was a pride issue. So some of these 'far fetched' sounding scenarios are true.
We haven't engaged in arranged separate play at all, but I suppose if we did we'd be most comfortable with attached individuals that we have fucked previously for a host of reasons.
Sex a parties and clubs are a different story. Something about the casual hookup environment isn't as intimate. The threat of catching romantic feelings isn't as present.
Tracy and i have an agreement that if for ANY reason we are uncomfortable about the others playmate or situation, either of us can put that individual "off limits". No discussions. It's just a done deal.
That is a road that neither of us wants to go down so therefore we are very careful about handing out hall passes for regulars.
For instance: Tracy is in Hocking hills Ohio this weekend with some girlfriends. I have a fairly regular playmate about 20 minutes from us. I didn't ask for a hall pass, nor do i want one. I would rather wait until Tracy is home than put even an inkling of jealousy or suspicion in her mind. Would she be jealous or suspicious? NO. BUT..
It's just not worth the chance.
Completely understandable. Opinion is largely borne out of personal experience, and we might feel differently if we had seen what you guys did. In some ways, and to your point, we think there's an argument to be made that ongoing separate play is exactly the opposite of being cautious.
I'm probably biased but I've watched those arrangements blow up a few times with friends.
Never to the divorce factor or nothing but after a few simple mistakes it came down to not being able to play with a particular person again factor.
We have the good fortune of being close friends with a few couples that have been in the lifestyle for many many years. They have been a great teacher about the pitfalls of many scenarios.
"Cautious..."
LOL! Not at all anything close to what we were expecting, but alright! To clarify just in case that was a playful jab at an assumption about our preferences, we do have and use hall passes for unplanned rendezvous in addition to planned dates.
Calcan asked - What term do you use for playing in separate locations with a person or people you've played with before, or even regularly (i.e. planned, not random)?
Cautious...
To add, for simplicity's sake, we've just always thrown that one into the hall pass category. Even some of the other lifestyle sites seem to do the same. For example, one of them allows members to select various play preferences and clues, and for "hall pass" they add "(aka playing separately". No implication that doing so requires any randomness, spousal prearrangement or preclusion of existing lifestyle friendships.
2outdoorlovers:
That's pretty close to our personal definition as well, with one question for you. What term do you use for playing in separate locations with a person or people you've played with before, or even regularly (i.e. planned, not random)? That's always been the grey area of proper terminology for us, and i think where opinions of what's correct begin to diverge more often than not.
Calcan said - Back to hall pass. Check out some of the definitions online. Seems there's a little inconstancy about what it means, which is maybe why we're debating this here! But, think it's a good use of time to check it out anyway
To us a hall pass is permission to have sex when the other is nowhere around. Often times it's given by myself or my wife when one of us out of town for a vacation or similar. Generally it's not given for anyone in particular. It's more of an open permission slip to have sex with some random stranger that may catch her eye.
At hotel parties and the like. We almost always play separately but we are both in the same place. We don't call that a hall pass.
That is the 2outdoorlovers definition of a "hall pass". Lol
So we have actually used in a fun manner even when out and asked who is with us... of course we said.. its Kathys.. "Boy Toy" or "Friend With Benefits" or "Fuck Buddy". We have many others and makes people laugh especially when all 3 check in at a hotel.. !
Cal, we have no problems with hall passes as long as we know them well or can vet them properly. Sm's and hall pass holders are often looking for a relationship or a "lover." Poly folks have no problem with that, but most cannot handle a poly arrangement. Labels are always fun to navigate because people use them in many different ways. The big issue is always maintaining clear communication with one another and not hiding anything, unless it is a gift. The cheaters who slide in seem to be super problematic in many ways. There are just too many who have a porn/ short story fantasy idea of what the LS is and they will never grasp the beauty of what it can look like.
Tangled:
There are certain terms in the LS that really bug us, too. For example, we just can't get comfortable with the term "lover". Early in our journey we thought it was just older swingers that used that word. But as time has gone on, we've noticed that even some of the younger generation prefers to use it. Just gives us the giggles when we see it on the forums or in chat lol.
Back to hall pass. Check out some of the definitions online. Seems there's a little inconstancy about what it means, which is maybe why we're debating this here! But, think it's a good use of time to check it out anyway.
Holly:
Back to the OP. We've definitely been exposed to some of the issues you describe. But given that your profile appears open to single males, does your opinion about hall pass situations include an aversion to bringing in a hall a pass male even if in a threesome situation with your SO?
calcanfun2, you're right about labels though a Hall Pass sounds like a one time affair though, like a business trip hook up. LOL.
Tangled:
Nothing's ever black and white, and we're not big fans of labels. But your understanding of stag/vixen is a little bit different than ours. Our understanding of it is the male half is present and enjoys watching and participating. Did a Google search and that's also the more common definition we landed on. We enjoy that, and everything else you describe. But we mostly consider the separate locations dynamic to be hall pass. YMMV!
My wife and I are in a open marriage and don't call it a 'hall pass' or poly. It's really about having fun on dates and so far its been really hot for us and made sex for us much better than when we first started dating. We have amazing sex together at 4 to 5 times a week now. I get really excited when she goes on a Tinder date, has sex, and then comes home to me with me having sex with her right after. Love hearing all the sexy details of her date too. She gets excited when I go on a date too but doesn't want the details of it, haha. I think its a guy thing where we like to hear details.
This is called a STAG/VIXEN lifestyle.
Like others we have watched couple crash and burn due to playing separately and one of common factors in most of those cases has been a single that really didn't understand the lifestyle. Those men and women instantly try and create a romantic connection and will be or become jealous of the spouse and that can manifest itself in many different way. The death knell is almost always exclusive intimate conversations that increase in frequency and that are hidden from the spouse. The hall pass holder then plays or gets played against the spouse and unless something stops it the relationship will be done. Everyone has their own rules, guidelines, and structure in place and open honest communication has to happen. When one of those suffers then it is time to step back, take a break, get your footing back, or leave the LS.
2outdoorlovers:
You make a great point. It isn't for everyone, and we too have had our fair share of issues with hall pass. Growing pains. Liars. Fakes. All the things. For us, this really goes back to the lifestyle principal importance of (with your SO and partner) honesty and trust, as well as thoroughly vetting whom you decide to do that kind of thing with.
Kinda hard to explain, but hall passes can be both an rewarding or dangerous game.
They usually start out being the greatest thing since sliced bread but often enough can end up being a lifestyle killer.
Tracy and I are very careful about when, where, and with whom it is allowed.
So for "us" we have been swingers well over 24 years.. with our long time FWB both male and female we do go out alone, dancing, clubs, and even some vacations which included Ft Ldl, Costa Rica and NOLA.. but only after the FWB have proven what we want and understand its just for fun and good sex.. ! Real FWB with always an open ear!
For"us" we understand the difference between love, trials and tribulations of a great marriage, good communication always, recreational sex and swinging and YES we have seen many swingers who cannot do this and are very insecure .. but its their journey we do wish them good wishes!
When we are all together we love the sights, sounds , smells and just good times with all hands in deck! Even after we go out alone.. we come home and always make "love" talking about the experience to finish the night!
Our understanding of the term HallPass is agreement to date/ play with others separately. Some still play with couples and others just plain have an open marriage. Labels tend to get murky.
House Party rules are different. We arrive together and leave together with regular check ins. The same for hotel parties. We arrive together and end up in our room together. Again checking in with each other. What makes this different is that although you are free to play at will, it's still an activity together.
This is just our understanding and not the Bible on the subject.
