Sedition

"Does Biden bring documents to Delaware every weekend ? I’m sure he does ! Does he have a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility like Trump does at Mara Lago to keep those documents?"

Let's see . . .

The president of the US has classified material. The president of the US takes the classified material away from the whitehouse. Sounds reasonable.

The person who was NO longer the president, now a CITIZEN, packed up classifed material, transported it to his home.

Yeah . . . that is the same.

Anyone see the video on the “RAID” at Trumps place ?

They didn’t “RAID” Mara Lago . Lol . The media said they did.
Dumb Democrats believed it !

“Yeah, don't bring Biden into this, “

I did so what , what did Trump do wrong ?

Yeah, don't bring Biden into this, he has not been accused of doing anything wrong. Here's a quote I found from someone in Trump's administration:

"Miles Taylor (chief of staff to the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security during the Trump administration) said that Republicans were being hypocritical and that Trump was "mind-numbingly incompetent" when it came to protecting classified information."

Hilary and Donald, two peas in a pod... I personally don't think either should run in 2024. I think America has had enough of both in positions of power. Just my opinion... you are free to support either.

Does Biden bring documents to Delaware every weekend ?
I’m sure he does ! Does he have a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility like Trump does at Mara Lago to keep those documents?

Maybe he didn’t know the “C” meant classified just like Hillary.

President Trump: “The National Archives did not “find” anything, they were given, upon request, Presidential Records in an ordinary and routine process to ensure the preservation of my legacy and in accordance with the Presidential Records Act.

"I'm a little curious about the amount of obsession it takes to look all that up."

It took just reading one article and having a memory to remember things.

"Curious - Who did he make his claims to? Was it the Assessors Office?"

Actually, if you read what they are going after him for it is simple.

1. Stating valuations for assets that did not match the valuations. The investigation is looking at HOW he lied on those valuations to inflate the values, presented it to Mazars and then took that data to present to lenders.

1. Stating valuations for a/the property/ies that did not match the valuations. The investigation is looking at HOW he lied on those valuations to deflate the values, presented it to the appraisers to lower his property taxes.

So using his golf course - he bumped up the valuation of it, used that as an asset in his portfolio to show wealth, and then presented it to lenders. For that same golf course - he lowered the valuation to below what it was appraised at to lower his property taxes.

This was on the same property and this is the crux of the lie and the crime. This is why I mentioned value versus appraisal. If he used the valuation that he would sell the course with his name on it, that is the value if he sold. For appraisal and tax purposes, it would be lower. It would consist of the value of the land and the building, not the intangibles or other fixed assets in the building(s).

So, using a simple thing, if the property was 1000 acres and he lied to the lenders saying it was 2000 acres, that is a crime.

I do not have access to the data that was submitted to the lenders. I suspect that the lenders would look at the valuations like this:

Golf course
Land - 10mm
Improvements - 20mm
Intangibles - 5mm
Revenue 3mm/year
OpEx 2mm/year

The financials would have that golf course broken down like that. It would NOT be lump summed.

Now, if he presented it like that to the lenders and then to the state said . . .

Land - 3mm
Improvements 2mm

Guess what he just did? FRAUD. Fraud to the state and fraud to the lender.

Trump is not running in 2024 unless he's going for a 3rd term.

Mickey

well...he needs to sit with Leticia and he will take the 5th. "Only the mob takes the 5th" - donald J. trump

Well, I don't know if I'd call it an obsession. Trump's thinking of running for Prez again in 2024, and he's just doing his homework to decide whether to vote for him or not. It's also always a good idea to study criminals to see how they got away with things, and how they eventually got caught. Could be useful info for your own life. Kind of like when I play Grand Theft Auto... I feel like I'm learning things.

Erotic

Curious - Who did he make his claims to? Was it the Assessors Office?

I'm a little curious about the amount of obsession it takes to look all that up.

@Bonnie

"I’m not exactly following this political witch hunt smear campaign against Trump but you may want to include the word ALLEGED in the above statement."

Actually, what I wrote was correct. Trump himself has stated that he adjusts the values based upon his feelings. I believe he stated as such in one of the depositions he did.

Regardless of that, you guys keep arguing assessment versus valuation. Look at some of the claims against Trump regarding his presentation for financing.

1. He claimed he had 77 (iirc) lots for sale at a place at 3mm a lot. No. He had 55 (iirc.)
2. He claimed a place was 30k sq ft to value it. Why? Because those types of valuations are a per sq ft basis. The valuation, iirc, for that location is about 1500 to 2000 a sq ft. The place was a little more than 10k sq ft. See this one is where I think he will get really thrown under the bus. This one was PURE fraud. He will be shown, in his own words, that he is real estate savvy. He will be shown that he knows that things are per sq ft. If you have 10k sq ft at 2k, that is 20mm in value. If you have 30k sq ft at 2k a square, that is 60mm. The prosecutors will show that he was knowledgeable and purposefully did it.

Now, I fully expect all the Trump lovers to go, "So what. He lied. Big fucking deal." Ok, fair enough. Let's get rid of all white collar financial crimes. You are stating that fraud is OK. You are stating that the contract YOU signed for health care, or your funeral plot, or your life insurance can be tossed aside, because, you know, whatevs, who cares.

If you want to argue the penalities, I am all for that. To me, that is a valid discussion to have. I THINK this will be a class C felony in NY. From what I have read, a class C felony in NY is up to 20 years behind bars and a fine up to 5k in sentencing guidelines. Honestly, if Trump were to be found guilty, to see a 5k fine for this . . . NAH.

If you look at what was done to Pharma Bro - Martin Shkreli in NY, that may give you an idea of what to expect. The cases are not identical, but a lot of the components are similar. He got 7 years and a 7mm fine. Considering this is Trump if he is found guilty of all of this, if he were to just get a 100mm fine, I'd say there would be a whole bunch of people pissed. If you look at Martha Stewart, she got five months in jail over an insider trading claim. I would expect Trump to get 2 to 4 years and probably a 250 to 400mm fine if he is found guilty. I don't think the judge would put him in for max time.

Regardless of even that . . . do any of you think this will ever get to trial? Trump talks big, like a keyboard warrior. However, when it comes time to fight, he tucks his tail between his legs and runs like a little girl. I expect once the walls are closed in on him, he will turn to negotiation. He will claim his 'art of the deal' tactics will be the best. I suspect it will get pleaded out and never see the inside of a courtroom. Perhaps I am giving him too much credit to listen to his attorneys, but rolling the dice on a jury . . . woo. That is HEWWWWG.

@ea, "" In Florida, which I think is the same as NY, there are county appraisers. When the property changes hands, it gives them a clear GO to reassess. That will establish a baseline. Then a couple of things happen. One, the multiplier that is used against the value can fluctuate.""

That's what happens in NJ as well. It hasn't happened here in SC luckily

In New York, If say an owner believes their Assessment to be too high (usually based on comparables (comps)) in the area with like sq footage, # of beds, baths, pool, spa etc... they have the right to appeal that assessment to an Board of Assessment Review (BOAR). This Board is completely autonomous from the Assessors Office and renders a decision based on mutiple factors along with the Assessors data for the parcel in question. The board reviews the application to determine if the property was properly assessed. The appeal is either approved and a new assessment value is placed on the property by the BOAR or the appeal is denied and the Assessed value remains as is.

“The situation with Trump is he was applying intangibles to the property.“

I’m not exactly following this political witch hunt smear campaign against Trump but you may want to include the word ALLEGED in the above statement.

In New York, the assessment of your property ties into the levies and exemptions of your property, that combined with the tax rates determines the property and school taxes a person pays each year to the Tax Receivers office of the assessment jurisdiction.

Assessment by taxing authorities does not equal value.

Jeeze.

So let's try this with simple English.

You find a house you want to buy. You are going to finance it. AKA, the lender is now YOUR partner in this endeavor. What happens?

You make an offer, it is accepted. Let's say the deal is for 1mm. You are going to borrow 800k. What transpires next from the finance perspective?

The lender MAY require that the property be appraised. They will have a THIRD PARTY firm go out to the property, photo it, dig into it, then generate a report to show what the APPRAISER feels it is worth. If the appraiser says it is worth 500k, well . . . the bank will say, "WTF?" If the appraiser says it is worth 2mm, the bank will still say, "WTF?" That property better appraise for +/- 3% of the purchase price. WHY? Because the bank is your partner and if you default, they want to minimize their downside risk.

Now let's look at how some states handle property tax. In California, OMG, it is so simple. When the deal closes, that establishes the VALUE. That value is now the baseline. The first year you pay (numbers may not be 100% accurate) 1.1% of the purchase price as property taxes. Then the next year you pay a little more than the previous year (I am too lazy to look it up, I think it is a percent more.) There are NO appraisers who come out.

That system works wonderfully if you have values that always go up. When the financial crash hit in 08, every homeowner filed paperwork to reasses their house.

In Florida, which I think is the same as NY, there are county appraisers. When the property changes hands, it gives them a clear GO to reassess. That will establish a baseline. Then a couple of things happen. One, the multiplier that is used against the value can fluctuate. Second, the value of the property can change each year. It can go up, it can go down. In Broward county, they split the land and the building out. Most of the time, they use a blanket formula to change the values of the land and building. You can appeal it though and most of the time, you may get a little bit of a gain, but not much.

The situation with Trump is he was applying intangibles to the property. What is the value of Coca Cola's trademark? We all know it has some value, we do not know what it is worth. FASB has methods to handle this. It is NOT perfect. It is subjective to a point. Trump though, was bypassing those measures. Trump was inflating the value of his properties because he was thinking (1) the underlying real estate was worth more than it was and (2) applying his trademark to it. I THINK, when there will be a trial, that Trump will be busted as well as Mazzars for not following FASB for valuation of trademarks, aka the intangibles.

The tax assessors auditors come and look at my house every few years .

I lived in New York and can say that properties are assessed by the local, city or county offices by the Assessors Office in taxing jurisdiction.

"That’s when he gets to say “ I don’t assess my own property and business , THE BANK DOES “"

Uhh . . .

NO.

The bank tanks information that is given to them. The bank's lending department has underwriters. Accounting firms produce financials. They can either be audited or unaudited. For them to be audited, the accounting firm does more work but they TAKE information given to them. They then start requesting documents to support the work that the internal accounting team did. They then use STATISTICS to determine if things look out of whack. Anything that does not fit into the expected results is dived into deeper. Once they get all the work done, they present a AUDITED version. The audited version is then sent to banks for lending purposes and/or covenants that were in previous notes.

Not what Trump said..¯\_('!')_/¯

Sard

Using your reasoning, where does that put McCabe?

And once again, pleading the 5th is a constitutional right and is not an admission of guilt!