Send us Fan MailLifestyle Interview: Open: A journey through love with Roderick Stevens | Episode 104Welcome to The Swing Nation Podcast, the top-rated lifestyle podcast that delves into the world of non-monogamy and swinging. Join us as we sit down with Rodrick, a talented director and filmmaker who is currently working on the groundbreaking documentary OPEN: a Journey through Love. In this candid and thought-provoking interview, Roderick takes us on a captivating journey as he shares his experiences and insights into the world of ethical non-monogamy. We explore the profound positive effects that this lifestyle can have on individuals and relationships, challenging societal norms and shedding light on the beauty and authenticity of love without boundaries.Through his powerful storytelling and compelling exploration of various perspectives, Roderick aims to de-stigmatize ethical non-monogamy and empower others to embrace their own unique paths to happiness. We delve into the making of OPEN and learn about the challenges and triumphs that come with breaking through societal barriers.Tune in for an unforgettable conversation with Roderick and discover the profound impact of ethical non-monogamy on individuals and relationships. Love, laughter, and liberation await you on this episode of The Swing Nation Podcast!OPEN s Website- The Swing Nation - Main Website Quick Navigation Website: -- (Find all our social media links more!) Follow us on Facebook! The Podcast Website- Swinger Society - Our Website to meet, connect events Swinger Society Discord Our Facebook Group- Swinger Websites - SDCUsername: TheSwingNation** Use code 36313 for 14 days free! ** SLSUsername: NorthernGuynSouthernGirl- Merch More - The Swing Nation Merch The Swinger Pride Flags Swinger Society Merch- Lacy’s Fun Links - VIP OnlyFans PREMIUM OnlyFans -- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS -- Shameless Care: ED Medication and at home STD testingUse Code TSN at checkout for $30 off your order!Promescent® Make Love Longer, It’s Time for Great SexUse Code SwingNation for 5% off!Support the show- Thank you for the support! -
Transcript
This podcast is intended for adult audiences. Over the age of 18, it contains adult language and situations. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to us, and not of any employer, organization, committee, or other group or individuals. This podcast is not intended to be taken as professional advice. Welcome to the Swing Nation podcast, a podcast by swingers for swingers, where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions associated with our lifestyle.
Come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe, interview the experts, learn and grow together. Join the nation. Lacey, we get approached by couples all the time and they want to know, like, where can they learn the one-on-ones of non-monogamy? Yeah, I totally get it. You want to get in the lifestyle, but you just don't know where to start. We recommend Sex by Sue's class on non-monogamy.
i totally get it you want to get in the lifestyle but you just don't know where to start we recommend sex by sue's class on non-monogamy she really helps couples learn how to communicate and do the lifestyle the correct way yeah i think this lifestyle you know it's crucial not to to step on the landmines that a lot of us do yeah and you kind of learn the hard way you know so having a class can take online, you know, in the privacy of your own home and kind of learn the ins and outs, learn, you know, how to approach the lifestyle, how to communicate with your partner about it.
You know, I think it's something worth taking and we highly recommend it. Yeah. So click below in the show notes. You'll find this link for that course. Check it out, guys. Bye. Most people have unprotected oral sex, right? Be honest. Now think about your last STD test. Did your doctor tickle your throat with something that looked like a giant Q-tip? Probably not. Yet that's the only way to check for oral gonorrhea or chlamydia, which are often asymptomatic. You need a better doctor. You need shamelesscare.com. Use coupon code TSN at checkout.
So Lacey, people are asking, how do they get to go to a party or an event with us? They check out swingersociety.net. You create a profile, you sign up for an event, and you come hang out with us. Super easy.
easy that's right if you want to party with us and the other faces and names that you know from social media and tiktok head on over to swingersociety.net can't wait to see you there hey there pineapple people and welcome to the swing nation podcast we are your hosts northern guy and southern girl in today's episode we have a special episode for you we are sitting down with roderick uh who is uh the organizer behind open uh well why don't you uh for our listeners why don't you introduce yourself and then tell us a little bit about uh if you kind of give us some – the high levels of the documentary that you're working on.
So my name is Roderick Stevens. I'm a filmmaker and artist and writer and so on. And I'm in the middle of producing a documentary called Open, A Journey Through Love, which seeks to de-stigmatize ethical non-monogamy and examine the profound positive effects it can have on individuals and relationships. And this all came about, my partner and I have been together for five years. We're not married, but so she refers to me as her probation officer and she's my prom date.
and uh because i always thought boyfriend and girlfriend sounds like we're in high school and partner sounds like we're in business together. But, um, we, uh, are quite new to this whole, uh, lifestyle experience, but we stumbled across it because I do a lot of, uh, road trips, a lot of driving for various aspects of the work that I do. And I was on quite a long road trip about two years ago and stumbled upon these lifestyle podcasts. And at the time I had no idea what lifestyle even meant.
And I ended up, I just happened upon this podcast, listening to a married married couple talk about, you know, opening up their marriage. And I ended up listening to all seven years of their relationship in seven days. And that compressed overview just made it crystal clear to my autistic brain the way that alternate alternative form of relating was impacting their self-esteem and communication and authenticity and compassion. And ultimately, of course, intimacy. And I just became hooked.
Now at the time, the two of us as individuals, and then in our relationship, we weren't anywhere close to being ready to actually say, play with people. You know, our generation are the ones that have had to go through a major paradigm shift to, you know, grasp the notion of letting go of this societal conditioning about monogamy. And so we weren't ready for that.
But when I came home from that road trip, I told her, I said, you know, this whole sex with other people thing sounds fun and all, but I do not want to settle for anything less than the kind of relationship that I'm hearing about in these podcasts and what I could see for us. I've been, again, a component to all of this is I was diagnosed about three years ago with autism. And an important part of my experience with that is that means, you know, people with autism, the incoming and outgoing filters don't work quite in the normal societally expected ways. So as an example, I am Mr. TMI.
I don't know when to shut up. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I'm an open book. And I spent years and years thinking that that was a personality choice and kind of being disappointed at how much the world tends to be very guarded and not very open. And when I got the autism diagnosis, I realized, oh, that's not a personality choice. It's because I have autism and I don't have any idea how to present myself any other way. And it's answered a ton of questions about my own experiences.
Well, as soon as we started exposing ourselves to this E&M community and finding all of these people that are so much more prone to living more authentically and being more vulnerable, it was like finding home for me. It's probably the most important thing to my experience is getting to meet all these people who are so much more authentic and, and willing to be very real. And, um, so there you go. We, you know, I, I talked to Jane, my, my lovey face and said, you know, do you trust me? And she did. She knew that I wouldn't have ulterior motives or anything.
And I just said, well, then we need to start working on the things that, um, you know, I always tell people, uh, all people and relationships would potentially benefit from the things that the lifestyle forces us to deal with. And so I said, let's start dealing with these things. So we started working on our communication, on better identifying what we feel and how to communicate that with each other and being open and honest about desires and fantasies. And so we just focused on working on our relationship and just figured the sex stuff will happen or it won't happen.
And that's kind of exactly how it's unfolded. And, uh, and then I, I just have so much passion for how ethical non-monogamy and all of its different iterations can impact people in relationships that, you know, I kept thinking, how do I merge this with my love of film? And it finally hit me last summer that, oh my God, I need to make a documentary. So here we are a year later. I was going to say, so that was, I was going to ask you how long ago that was. So it was about a year ago. You said you were on that car ride and listening to that podcast. Yep. Yep.
Well, the podcast would have been about two years ago. But the decision to make this documentary was last June. So in a couple of weeks, it'll be a year that I decided on doing the documentary. And since that time, I've traveled over 25,000 miles, compiled so far over 80 hours of footage, interviewed several dozen people. I'm sure I'll end up at over a hundred hours by the time I'm done filming. And, um, I've still got, you know, a few months of editing to do, but I still have some more interviews, uh, that I'm looking to get. So lots of work. Okay.
And, and then who, so do you mind sharing what podcast it was that you were listening to? Oh, we were all about promoting other podcasts here. So it's okay if it wasn't this, if it wasn't the same nation. We're okay with it. And I know we don't have seven years of podcasts, so I know it wasn't us. No, it's not us. That's right. That's right. Yep, yep. Yeah, no, and obviously, as you guys know, there are so many podcasts out there now. But yeah, the one that I happened to stumble upon two years ago was We Got a Thing. Yeah, which is one of our personal favorites.
And we actually don't – we've never met them. But we definitely respect what they do for the community for sure. Yeah. They're a great couple and we're part of their community. And we joined them at Desire last November. But it was them. And then I got to say another one that had a really big impact on me was that couple next door. And that one was specifically what I was really appreciating about it was all of these great friendships that they had developed, you know, with other people in their community.
And, you know, now Jane and I are both quite introverted, uh, in spite of the fact that I'm running all over over the country shooting a documentary. You know, when we go to events and parties and resorts, we tend to be the two that are kind of hanging all over each other in a corner of the pool somewhere watching people. In fact, our handle on Twitter and on Cassidy is swing troverts. That's just, just, uh, really, really grabbed me. And so that, that was another component that, that appealed to me.
And then of course, since then we've listened to other podcasts and, uh, you know, looked up other programs that have been out there and it just doesn't seem like anybody, especially in the video space, the, space, has tackled this subject. You know, Playboy had swing TV, which was fun and served its own purpose, but certainly didn't delve into just the relationship aspect of things that we're focused on. Yeah.
No, and that, you know, it's a big, you know, when we when we first started on you know social media and kind of talking about this there was a big motivation for us to start the podcast is it just seems like there isn't a lot of good quality um resources and even within the podcast space a lot of the podcasters are you know they're storytellers they're telling about their experience and kind of reliving a lot of you know what they've done but as far as like resources on like how do you do this how do you have these conversations where do you start um there's not a lot of that out there at least there wasn't for us when we got started and how long have you guys not that we're i'm interviewing you but remind me how long have you guys been in the lifestyle uh so me and lacy have been in the lifestyle um individually for about seven years, six and a half, almost seven years.
Um, and then we've been together for about five years. And the, you know, the interesting thing about our relationship is we actually met in the lifestyle. So we were both singles that were interacting in the lifestyle space. And then we came together that way. Uh, so it's a little bit, a little bit different of an angle, a little bit different of an approach, but, uh, yeah, it is interesting. So, you know, you, you say, you. So you say you listened to this podcast and you were motivated. You instantly went home and talked to your partner about it and she was interested.
But then how do you go from that to I want to make a documentary about this? Well, the two components that had the most influence on that decision were, one, just, it's my nature to be, for one, I tend to break everything down in my life. I'm really intrigued by the components that make things up, the behind the scenes of things, the how things are made. And so I tended to really dig into, well, what, what is it about this alternate form of relating? What is it that's, um, that's creating these changes for people, these transformations for people in their relationships?
I was especially, I think the thing that really grabbed me the most at the beginning was how much it often impacts self-esteem, especially the women in the community. And so I get fascinated with how and why. And then I just have a great deal of passion for filmmaking. I mean, that's been my number one passion since I came out of the womb. And so I'd been thinking for months about, well, how can I bring these two passions together, this long-standing passion of mine and this new one? And I tend to think in the narrative space.
I'm a screenwriter and a director and a cinematographer and a production designer. And so I tend to work in storytelling type movies, not documentaries. So I hadn't even thought of documentary. And then it was at Podcastapalooza last June in Palm Springs that I just happened to be in a conversation with Bomber from Black and Kinky, who, as you know, passed away not long ago. And he and I were talking, and he said he wanted to go over some possible ideas with me about some television ideas that he had and so on. And just in that conversation, the concept of a documentary hit me.
And, I mean, it really hit me. I just thought, Oh my God, two plus two equals four. And I need to be doing a documentary about this because then I'm not trying to come up with a story. I'm letting the story, you know, tell itself. And, you know, I, I feel like I'm in a unique position with regard to this project from several fronts, some of which may sound kind of silly. But one is, again, we are in the community, so I'm not someone that's on the outside trying to expose something that's happening on the inside. We participate in this, so we're part of this community.
Number two the inside, we participate in this. So we're part of this community. Number two, though, we're newbies, which means I get to capitalize on my wide-eyed wonder and asking questions and learning things and be the inroad for our audience, which, you know, who we're targeting is people that are just curious about this, people that don't know much about it and probably have lots of misconceptions about how it operates. Three, I'm not just a filmmaker, but, and I don't mean for this to sound boastful, but I have a pretty comprehensive technical knowledge of all aspects of filmmaking.
And so I know how to shoot and do the audio and edit and I'll see lot of equipment. I have, you know, a nice, very nice camera package and lighting and all that sort of thing. And then the last one is I happen to love road trips. So there aren't too many people that think nothing of driving for two or two and a half days, but I've been doing that for years for various, you know, when as a filmmaker, I worked primarily as a cinematographer, for instance, I worked primarily in Los Angeles, but I live in Arizona. So I was always driving back and forth. I used to do art shows.
I also am a fine artist and I used to do art shows all over the country, uh, including in like Atlanta, Georgia and down in Florida and St. Louis and Houston and Northern California. And so I was used to driving all over the country doing art shows. And so I just happened to love road trips. So it's like just this perfect combination of components, um, that, that kind of, I don't know, make me feel like I'm the guy to do this. Yeah. It's interesting.
You know, so me and Lacey have been on social media for a while and we've had the benefit of having several like viral Tik TOK videos and stuff like that. And over the last two years, we've had, you know, production companies reach out to us about like doing a reality TV show and something like that.
And we've all, you know, of that uh because like you said i think you know in that type of situation they're looking for the drama or the sex and they want to really play out all the provocative stuff yeah the provocative stuff they told us well we were looking for the drama and that's scary absolutely absolutely it is and they will absolutely concoct the drama for you yeah and especially because like we know the stigma that swinging has we don't want to make that worse and and we don't want to make it worse and we don't want to be involved in anything that's going to make it worse so we kind of steer clear from that area yeah i've been involved in a little bit of reality programming and it's very upsetting how much it isn't reality programming.
You know, it's all still just scripted, manipulative nonsense. And yeah, they'll absolutely do things that would harm the message that, you know, that we would love to get out there. And, you know, it's really important to me. For instance, we've talked about whether we might be able to get together at a big event like Naughty in New Orleans to get some footage. And, you know, I have no intention of including explicit footage in this documentary. This is meant to be a palatable, you know, PG-13 or R maybe for some language at most.
And so the footage, for instance, that I want to get is people dancing, people socializing, people swimming. Um, uh, and, and if they're topless, we can work with that, but, um, but you know, no genitals or anything. And then as an example, yeah, I might want to get some footage in like a playroom, but it would be like people out of focus or shooting through like sheer curve.
And then as an example, yeah, I might want to get some footage in like a playroom, but it would be like people out of focus or shooting through like sheer curtains or, or something where we're just getting the vibe of what it feels like without it being explicit, because the focus of this documentary is not the sex. It's about the relationship stuff and, and how just even talking about the sex can impact a relationship. One of the people I interviewed was Catherine from Expansive Connections. I don't know if you're familiar with them. We are, yeah. Yeah.
And one of the things she says is that sometimes that's all it is, is the conversation. A lot of couples can really gain a lot just by talking about this stuff and exploring how they feel about it. And then they might just translate that into, you know, Bob, another great example. Bob, I don't remember exactly what percentage he said, but Bob Hannaford of Naughty Events said something like more than half of the people that go to naughty and Nolens are not having sex with other people. They're just enjoying the sexy atmosphere. Yeah.
It's interesting because we, you know, we've gone around and we've, we've interviewed various club owners for the podcast and various like hotel takeover groups and stuff like that. And then we just get back from Hedo and talking to them. And that seems to be the pretty standard that about half the people that show up to events are more there for the fun atmosphere, for the open-minded people. They like being able to be naked and have fun. I think there's something to be said for, you know, if you're a 40 and up or 30 and up type person, you can't really go to the club downtown, right?
That's where all the 20-year- year olds hang out so these people are looking for somewhere fun and kind of sexy where they can hang out and dance with people and interact with people and yeah i think the lifestyle isn't all about the sex a lot of it's about the atmosphere and the friend group and kind of that uh having you know being able to socialize with people uh when your peers yeah you know uh scott of uh naughty jim uh mentions in in their interview that you know the sex can be great of course but it isn't always but what's usually great is all the flirting leading up to it all of that sexual energy leading up to it you know that's where all that fun energy is and um yeah, yeah.
I talk about that on TikTok a lot. People think that if you walk into a swingers club that you have to partake in the swinging. And there's so many things between, you know, the beginning of your swinging, like when you start to the end, there's so many things that you can do to enhance your relationship that have nothing to do with penetration at all.
You even just flirting with someone dancing with someone just kissing someone just watching another couple there's so many other hot things that I think people don't realize that could really enhance your relationship without actually doing a full swap yep yep you know as you know lots of people enjoy the parallel play. And, you know, I, you know, like I mentioned, authenticity is such a key thing for me. One of the things I love is the fact that you can meet someone in this environment, you can just meet them and within five minutes, be talking about very vulnerable issues.
And, you know, that, really hooks me so yeah i'm a big fan yeah so my next question would be you know it seems like you're pretty new to this this community uh it sounds like you went to some events uh how did you approach um you know the community you know the event organizers how did you get people to agree to i guess sit down and film with you was that difficult because i think you know if we think about the lifestyle community they they tend to be pretty closed off and i think it is hard to kind of crack in and get people's stories and get people to share was that difficult for you or or no it's it's it has certainly gained momentum.
You know, I started, I mean, there you go. Perfect example is I started with the Joneses. I went to them first and said, hey, I'm going to do this documentary. And you guys and your podcast is such a crucial part of my personal journey. And, um, as it's turned out, the documentary is certainly, um, at least initiated based on my journey.
Like that's what's sort of, uh, you know, as, as you see in the preview that we released a month ago, you know, I ended up realizing that I was going to kind of have to be in it, even though I'm very much a behind the camera person, but it only made sense to at least introduce this project as an, uh, you know, uh, offshoot of my journey, my experience and how I discovered things. And then I could let other people take it from there.
So I talked to the Joneses and they were just like, yeah, we're not really ready to be that out um which you know obviously i can respect um gosh a a key reason a key motivator for doing this documentary is the tragic irony that a high school administrator can cheat on his or her spouse and get a slap on the wrist but if as a couple they, they choose a consensually non-monogamous relationship, uh, they can lose their career. They can lose their pension and everything. Um, you know, I mentioned that couple next door and they've had to shut down their podcast for fear of that exact thing.
And, um, so I respected that the Jones didn't want to get on camera, but I just kind of started reaching out to other podcasters and, you know, gosh, I'm trying to remember who, oh, well, a few authors. The very first interview I shot was with Kate Lurie, author of Open Deeply. I got very excited after reading Christopher Ryan's Sex at Dawn, and so reached out to him and ended up interviewing him in January. And then it's kind of built up from there as far as the word got around to people. You know, they started referring me and vouching for me.
And then I was invited to this uh ethical non-monogamy summit in houston last weekend and uh ended up that's where i met and interviewed brett chamberlain from open-love.org and kylie the uh tiktoker and content provider and then bob hannaford the owner of naughty events um yeah so it's just kind of gone from there right so I want to see more and and you know um j Jane keeps saying, you have like 80 some hours of footage. Don't you have enough content? And I really do. I could stop interviewing people right now. And I have way more than enough to do a feature-length documentary.
But I think you'll agree there's so much potential content in this space that I think we could easily do an entire series on this topic. And so I'm treating this project as a singular feature length documentary. But ultimately, I really think it could serve as a pilot and then just do additional episodes on different subtopics. And so with that, between knowing that and just the fact that I love talking, I love having these conversations with people.
And so in every interview I've done, we've touched on topics that aren't going to be part of this documentary necessarily, because I just love hearing people's stories. Um, I love sharing, you know, what, what we have in common and relating to each other. Um, uh, it took me for instance, because I'm a straight white man, it was easy for me to, and, and I should say also, we, you know, came into this through what you might call the social swinging sort of, uh, approach. So it was easy for me to find straight white couples in the swinging space.
So it's been a little harder to find other, um, people. So for instance, I, uh, talked to Emma and Finn of, uh, the normalizing Non-Monogamy podcast, and because of the nature of their podcast and the variety of people that they talked to, they ended up connecting with some more people. For instance, one of my favorite interviews is with an octogenarian couple in Florida that discovered all of this in their 70s, and he discovered his own bisexuality in his seventies. And they're, you know, living these incredible, authentic lives now in the sort of sunset years.
And, um, um, so let's see, what was my point? Um, Oh, just that I'm just enjoying, I'm still happy to interview more people until I have to stop because I just think there's so much more we can do with this content and I just love talking to people. Yeah, and that's an interesting point because I think if you went to me and said, okay, Dan, I want to make a documentary on the lifestyle, what should should that encompass? I would have a real hard time like picking out, you know what I mean? Like compressing that into an hour or two hour long documentary.
I think that's a real challenge because I think the more you delve into, you know, what people refer to as the lifestyle or this kind of alternative lifestyle umbrella or the non-monogamy umbrella, There's so many niches within that community, and there's so many people that are experiencing this lifestyle in so many different ways. I think it would be really hard to niche that down to just a couple hours. Yeah, yeah, agreed. There's so much.
I mean, a very provocative subject that I think needs some attention and could easily fill an episode is when I did connect with, so far, three black couples, I wanted to hear about their experience with race and the role that race has played in the lifestyle. And, you know, again, that's not something that is, we're going to delve into in this documentary, but I just wanted to learn. I just wanted to hear what they had to say. And boy, am I glad I did. And I could absolutely see doing, like I said, yeah, an entire episode on just that.
Um, uh, you know, I'd love to do an episode on being outed,ed uh do an episode just on consent and how that has evolved and um so i think there's so much different stuff we could talk about no i agree all right i think at this point in time what we'll do is we'll take a little break and we'll hear from the partners and sponsors of the swing nation podcast uh and then when we get back i'll kind of want to go over like what you've kind of learned on your journey and if you could talk to some uh maybe you know what you've stumbled upon and what you've been surprised by and maybe what you expected and and kind of how doing this is has uh you know what effect has had on you so i think when we get back we'll hit on all those things and but for now let's hear from our sponsors we here at the Swing Nation podcast are proud to partner with Promescent.
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Make sure you join the Swing Nation STC group and send us a message. All right, guys, welcome back. Welcome back. We appreciate you listening to our sponsors. Lacey loves our sponsors. I do. She loves them. All right. So we're back here and we're talking, we're talking documentary. So we're back here and we're talking, we're talking documentary. So, uh, before the break, Roderick, I said, we want to get a little bit into maybe some of the things that have surprised you.
So you said you've, you've traveled the U S you've talked to, you know, a bunch of people, you've got hundreds of hours of videotape, um, on that journey. Is there anything that really has stood out to you that was surprising to you? Well, on the downside but evolving, when we first started in this, there were two things that kind of disappointed me, but I feel like they're in the middle of a lot of change right now. I feel like this whole ethical non-monogamy space is going through a lot of transformation over the last decade. And especially maybe since COVID.
Um, one of the issues that I was surprised to learn was that, that there has long been sort of a tension between the polyamory community and the swinging community. And I was like, well, that makes no sense. Like we're right next door to each other. We, we need to be, you know, supporting each other. And, um, but it seemed like for a lot of years there, you know, poly folks seem to think swingers were just freaks and swingers were afraid of the feelings.
And, um, but it seems like this community in the middle is what's really exploding where it's people that are not necessarily polyamorous but they really enjoy developing friendships and and relationships of sorts with with their play partners and um so it seems like that tension is is diffusing but uh it's funny you mentioned that because that's actually that's been a topic um of a lot of conversation lately even with our within our circles that um yeah you definitely have swingers that don't identify as polyamorous but they're also not just casual sex people they they you know they build these long-term friendships and have these connections and and having that type of friendship and you know we call it like friends with intimacy or friends with benefits or however you want to label it.
But being able to have, you know, a connection with people really just deepens the experience when it comes to sex or really when it comes to anything like going on a vacation together or going on some of these trips to some of these resorts and clubs and stuff like that. And, you know, once you establish that connection, you're willing to try more things sexually.
Like if you think about it in the monogamy space, you know, if you meet somebody off of Tinder and you hook up one night, it's probably going to be your basic, I go down on you, you go down on me, and then we have sex and that's it, right? But once you really start to build trust with somebody, you can start exploring. And you learn each other.
Like, oh, you know, that's when you can get into the, let's see how many things we can fit in a hole or use multiple holes or, you know the kind of kinkier like naughtier things yeah you don't do that just with a random person and you need somebody that you trust and you respect and you feel comfortable with so i really i'm a big advocate for that for that that middle ground that you you speak about where yeah i know you you're my friend i trust you you know and we can kind of explore our sexuality and explore our fantasies together as a group i love that space it's one of my favorite yeah i i had met this um couple and and overheard that they are now in this poly quad and when i said oh hey i heard you we were at a pool at an event and surrounded by people and i mentioned oh you know i heard know, I heard about you're in this poly situation now.
And he was like, oh, wait, we haven't told everybody. And I was like, OK. And so, yeah, he was saying that, yeah, some of our swinger friends get very anxious about that. And I just was like, that makes no sense to me. And so, again, I'd like to think that's changing. And then, and then the other one similarly is that there's been this long standing tension between like the swinging community and the LGBTQ plus community. And specifically that there's been this, uh, general expectation that the women are always bisexual and the men are always straight.
And I think partially because this social swinging or swally form of relating is expanding, that too is softening a bit. And more and more men are, for instance, coming out as at least bi-curious or bi-comfortable or open-minded. And more and more women are starting to feel like they're not obligated to have to be bisexual if they're not interested in women. And so it's nice to see that that's changing. As part of the documentary, we put out a poll, an anonymous poll that I'd love to have you guys share with your community.
Um, it's just asks, uh, it's anonymous and it just asked basic questions about your ENM experience, uh, about how do you identify sexually? How do you identify your relationship? Uh, how do you feel it's improved your self-esteem, et cetera, et cetera. And one of the things I was most interested in, one of the reasons I put out the poll in the first place was to ask how men identified in that sexual arena. And I gave them all kinds of options, you know, straight and gay and bisexual, bi-curious, bi-comfortable, open-minded, pansexual, et cetera.
And well over 50% of the male respondents thus far identify as something other than straight. And yet, I almost guarantee most of those men aren't real comfortable being open about that right now. We changed in some of our dating profiles, we changed my listing from straight to either open-minded or bi-comfortable like that. Because I was like, well, we're very stubborn about if that's going to hurt our chances connecting with a couple, then we don't want to be with that couple anyway. So yeah, I'm going to change my status.
And sure enough, we started getting all these messages from single men and couples where the men were listed as straight, but they specifically reached out to us because they were kind of curious. And I just thought, man, we got to keep working towards making sure that people feel safe being their authentic selves, including exploring bisexuality if they want or not, if they don't. Yeah. I couldn't, I couldn't agree with that more. And, you know, we've, we've talked about on this podcast, I played as a single male, uh, for, for a while in the last time before me and Lacey came together.
And that was very much my experience where couples, uh, would reach out to me with that, you know, by bisexual female and a straight male profile. And at some point in time along the conversation, you know, they would, you know, ask, you know, are you comfortable with this? Are you comfortable with that? Would you be okay with this? And it was, it's probably about half the couple. So I'm of the same where I think there's a lot more bisexual men that exist in this lifestyle, but because of social stigmas, they're afraid to, to really be authentic with, with that feeling.
But I agree it's getting better because just in our friend group we have seen several males come out as bi curious bisexual and it seems like they're starting to get more comfortable and i'm i'm super proud of that that they feel comfortable that they can express that yeah and i think we need to celebrate that more when people do that so that they do you feel comfortable doing that so yeah i think i think you're right on all fronts on that anything else that you've been surprised about on your journey oh gosh um surprised about um you know boy it sounds like all i've been surprised about is negative things um one of the one of the things that I keep hearing is when people, like say in podcasts, will talk about some of the challenges.
I mean, one of the things that we are sure to include in the documentary is, first of all, the concept that this isn't for everyone. This isn't about proselytizing. This isn't about saying everybody should be non-monogamous, not by any stretch. Everybody has to choose their own path and one is not better than the other. I do believe, like I said, that every couple monogamous or not, or every relationship monogamous or otherwise would benefit from the kind of work that people in ethically non-monogamous relationships have to do for personal growth and relationship growth.
Um, but that doesn't mean they have to become non-monogamous. And I think it's important. We emphasize that this isn't for everybody, but it surprises me how many people will address that they have some pretty deep insecurities that flare up during some of these experiences. And it's almost just accepted as, well, we have insecurities. And so we have to try to work around them. And I keep saying, yes, you have to respect those insecurities and work around them while you work to heal them because you can, you can heal those insecurities.
And, you know, one of the things I emphasized with Jane, my prom date, is because she, I mean, we've both struggled with insecurities, but like, I'll say, I want to keep working on your fears and insecurities and getting you to the place where you have no anxiety about the idea of me playing with someone. Not so that I can play with someone, but just for its own sake. I mean, because that's, I have, um, nuclear level compersion. I've got compersion like big time. And, um, and I feel incredibly safe in our relationship. You know, I know she's crazy about me. She knows I'm crazy about her.
Um, I have already gotten to that point where, um, for me, I guess I'll tell you a little story. We, the first time we ever played was with a single male. And, you know, I went into it with my eyes open. I mean, one of the things that I'm willing to acknowledge is even though I already knew I had some pretty strong compersion, you don't know until you're in a situation how you're going to feel. And I knew that.
Um, so I went into it with my eyes open, but I told her, I said, listen, as we were on our way to his house, I said, um, I don't want you to worry about what I'm comfortable with when we get there. I want you to just enjoy yourself, just focus on, on yourself and what you want, because I know that if I see something I don't like, I know I'll be okay to just talk to you about it tomorrow and just address it tomorrow. And because I feel that sort of comfort in our relationship.
Well, the one thing that I hadn't ever thought about, I hadn't ever imagined in all of our, you know, pillow talk and so on, I don't ever thought about, I hadn't ever imagined in all of our pillow talk and so on was sort of the post-coital cuddling. After we'd been playing for a while, just the two of them snuggled up and caressing each other. And oh my goodness, did I love it. And so it just so, uh, you know, uh, it just upped my compersion some more, but so my point is I feel very comfortable and very secure. And I just want her to feel that as well.
And, and that doesn't mean I want that so that we can play with another couple. I just want that. And, and again, that brings it back to this isn't about the sex. The sex is just a thing that prompts this personal growth. And if the sex happens, it does. If it doesn't, it doesn't. We've gone to lots of parties, resorts, hotel takeovers. I mean, for newbies, we've been quite busy in the travel arena. We've played with one couple ever, um, and not anything negative about anybody. It's just, it's not the goal.
We just show up to these places and love meeting people and love enjoying the atmosphere. And, and we just go into every one of these with the understanding that something might happen. It might not. And it's only going to happen if we both want it to. And otherwise, we're going to have a great time anyway. Yeah, that's 100% the right, the right attitude.
And, you know, for you being as, as new on your lifestyle journey, obviously, you're very, you know, you're smart and educated person, it seems like you've done a lot of research, compared to, you know, maybe other people that just kind of jump in. But but it sounds like you're saying all the right things. And that's exciting to hear.
And I think more people need to hear that and maybe do that hard work in front of their journey to really, you know, to research this stuff and know what to expect and going into it so that they don't kind of jump in and get their feet burned before, you know, thinking about some of these things. Yeah. You know, and just making the relationship the goal rather than sex. you know people, sex is the goal, and then hopefully some cool stuff happens to the relationship. And we've just emphasized, no, no, the relationship is the goal. And then, again, maybe something will happen. Maybe it won't.
There's so much to talk about and not that much time. But another thing I wanted to talk to you a little bit about is uh the whole advocacy slash discrimination thing so as you've traveled and you you've talked to people um have you have you noticed that people are that are non-monogamous are experiencing discrimination um and and how is what is the advocacy um i guess arena look like is there advocacy groups out there fighting for for-monogamy? And do you even look at this as a marginalized group or is it, you know, should we not even use that word? How would you?
No, I think marginalized is quite accurate. I think that that, for instance, is part of why it's been a challenge to include some other already marginalized groups. I mean, Miche from also Expansive Connections, as an example, I interviewed her and because of a combination of things, I actually shot her in front of a green screen and we'll be turning her into a cartoon character because she can't be fully outed. And she talked about how one of the challenges is when you're black, you already feel marginalized in society.
And now if you're in this alternative form of relating, that's also marginalized. So it compounds for a lot of people. Um, I think it's interesting that just like how, um, I've said my generation are the ones that have really had to get our head around changing our way of thinking. Uh, whereas younger, uh, generations, I mean, people like my children's age, they don't even know that there's a thing called the lifestyle. Cause they're like, oh, we're just doing what comes naturally. We didn't know there was a label for it.
And, um, so, so as the younger generations are coming up, you know, these things are going to evolve. That's how life works. Um, but lots of people in my generation, yeah, I mean, even some event planners and stuff are still having to, uh, very faces hidden and stuff like that. And it's a real shame when otherwise so many, you know, I've interviewed so many couples. I've done these road trips all over the country and spent all this time interviewing people. And every night I'd call home to Jane and she'd have to listen to me gush about these amazing conversations.
Um, if I do a road trip with like several interviews over the course of seven days, I'll literally like have a come down from a week of being intoxicated from these fantastic, uh, authentic conversations. And then to have these people living their authentic lives, then have to hide that from society. Because yeah, they're real worried about reprisals. There's a couple, we live in a military town and the military absolutely will take everything away from you.
If you're in the military and they find out that you're, uh, you know, breaking what they refer to as their, uh, in their morality clause. And, uh, it's, it's just tragic. I mean, I keep referring to the, like I said, the school administrator situation. So, um, we interviewed Ricky and Mandy from the Woodhull Freedom Foundation at the Creating Change Conference in February. And boy, one of the things that really hit us in our chat with them was they applauded our effort. They said, man, this is great that you're doing something to try to portray ethical non-monogamy in a positive light.
But our position is it's none of your effing business. It's everybody's literally constitutional right to have whatever sort of consensual adult sexual relationship that they want to have. And it's no employer's business who you sleep with. And so, you know, that's a battle that they're at the forefront of. I'm also just interviewed Brett Chamberlain with open-love.org.
And they're taking a very proactive approach to going municipality by municipality and county by county to get things like family and relationship structure included as a protected class so that you can't be discriminated against. And I believe they've already achieved some success in, I forgot, maybe Oakland, Massachusetts, somewhere in California. And then somewhere in Massachusetts, Somerville, Massachusetts, I believe Somerville, Massachusetts, and then somewhere in California. I can't remember which one it was.
And I think if it wasn't Oakland, it looks like Oakland is going towards that or something. And then sometime in the coming weeks, I've still got to interview Susan Wright of the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom. I was supposed to interview her at an event. She lives in Phoenix, which is just three hours from me. So that's an easy drive for me to get to. And we were supposed to interview her last month at an event in Phoenix, but we ended up having to postpone it until this past weekend in Houston. And then that didn't work out. So I've still got to catch up with her in Phoenix.
But yeah, we're definitely talking about some of the steps that these various advocacy groups are taking. Again, one of the things we touch on in the documentary is people being outed. As you probably know, Naughty Jim, they were outed in not a very pleasant way and had to deal with some repercussions from that. And, you know, we talked to a few people about their experiences being outed and who's they've come out to and that sort of thing.
Yeah, it's definitely, I mean, it's a big, uh, you know, we're, we're a hundred percent behind open and Brett and, and trying to change laws and protect people. But it definitely seems to me that this is a marginalized group. And in 2023, it seems silly that there's still, uh, that kind of a thing happening.
And I do think that there's something to be said for that you know like what you were saying is you know this community is made up of a lot of upper middle class white people and so them identifying as a marginalized group might be weird or difficult or feel i know when when i identify that way or you know if you say that to me oh well you're being marginalized i feel weird about even like claiming that you know what i mean so so maybe there's something to that that we don't want to necessarily you know when there's so many other marginalized groups out there we definitely you know we don't want to overshadow that or or you know try to pretend like we're on that same level so i don't know it's an interesting topic because it's all relative yep yep that's right okay so we got about 10 minutes left uh why don't you tell people um where to find you how to support you how to get behind this documentary um if they're interested in doing so you bet you bet so at this point there's still a lot of work to do on the film like i said i've still got some more interviews to shoot and it's more other footage and then i've got about three months of editing to do and um so the other thing that's our top priority in the middle of finishing the film is just building up as much engagement with people as possible in order to demonstrate to potential streamers or distributors that we have a huge, eager audience awaiting the film.
And so to that end, I'm inviting people to follow us on Twitter. We're at Swing Troverts, because we'd already established that before I started the documentary. So at Swing Troverts is where we're at on Twitter. On Instagram, we're at Open Journey Love. The website is www.openjourneylove.com. And there at the website, we have a newsletter signup, which is, we don't sell or give away anybody's email addresses. And it's just for updates on the project. So all we're going to be doing is sending out newsletters every, you know, two to four weeks, something like that.
Just letting people know, hey, here's what we're working on next. This is what we've gotten done so far. This is, you know, the status of the project.
And then lastly, we have a YouTube channel, also Open Journey Love, where as we start doing the editing, I'm going to be releasing little snippets, clips from the, you know, it might be clips that won't be be in the documentary but just were interesting things we talked about in our interviews um and then i'm going to release also shorter clips on instagram and twitter and we're also on tiktok but i haven't figured out how much i'm gonna uh i'm not a social media guy darn it so it's all right i have a few – I know a few friends that are – that can maybe help you out. Exactly. Oh, believe me.
I am counting on all of you people that know more than me. That's funny. That's awesome. And we really – we appreciate you sitting down and having a conversation with us and your project. It definitely seems like it's kind of a labor of love for you. I know you've invested a lot of time and resources. And I, you know, there, there are other, I guess, documentaries and stories out there, but not, I think what you're saying is not from the perspective that you're coming from. Yeah. I think I honor that. Like you're not, you're not trying to capitalize on the sex appeal.
You're not trying to, you know, it's not scandalous. It's not drama it's an authentic look at um a community of people that maybe haven't been looked at in this way before yeah yeah i really do feel like it's a unique um a unique approach to the subject and um and yeah i'm i'm certainly uh you know who knew traveling 25 000 miles with a van full of equipment was going to cost me a lot of money, but I've accumulated about, oh, well, many, many thousands of dollars in credit card debt so far doing this.
So I do have, I did an Indiegogo campaign when I first launched the preview last month, but it just so happened that right before I launched it, I got hired to production design a movie. And when you work on a movie, you have no spare time. I mean, you're working 16, 18 hours a day. And so I had no time to promote the crowdfunding campaign. And so it didn't go super well.
So at some point this summer, probably maybe in July, Maybe around the time this podcast comes out um i am going to extend it or relaunch it or whatever i have to do with indiegogo and i'll certainly get you guys that link um because yeah we'd love to get some support and um have people you know and we put some open journey love merchandise in there and things like that so no that's exciting Yeah, I think know for me and lacy anyway i think anybody that's sharing the story and sharing you know stories about the community in an authentic way uh you know with a good with good intentions in their heart uh we're always behind that 100 and uh so definitely keep us in touch and let us know how we can help and we'll keep uh sharing you and retweeting you and tick tocking you and whatever the things we got to do to get that story out there.
But it seems like, you know, you've made some connections at this point for people in the community. And I think, you know, you're you're only going to get more support as you go forward. Yeah, people have been really enthusiastic about it within the community. So, yeah, I think it's going well so far and yeah, it just, it just feels good to be. Um, I mean, again, I just, uh, I've told people, um, that for me, uh, if, if this project, if nothing were to come of this project, I get to say that just making it has been one of the most rewarding things of my entire life.
I mean, just meeting all these amazing people and having these cool conversations has been downright soul nourishing. And so I can't complain. But that said, I have a great deal of confidence in the project. I really feel like the world has gotten to a point where it's kind of, in spite of the fact that, uh, there is so much controversial and hateful and painful stuff going on in the world right now with, you know, anti LGBT things and so on. I still believe that in general, the world is ready to start learning about some of these new concepts with regard to relationships and so on.
So I just, I really feel like the world's ready to hear something new yeah no i think so too all right so uh what's the website one more time it's www.openjourneylove.com all right we'll go check out roderick go check out uh his documentary get behind him. We'll definitely be keeping you guys in touch on our social media, so stay tuned for that. We'll drop that link in our show notes as well if you need to find that. And I really want to thank you again for taking the time to sit down with us, Roderick. We appreciate that. Absolutely. Thanks for letting me come talk to your community.
All right. Of course. And I think with that, Lacey, in a world full of apples be the pineapple be the pineapple guys bye bye if you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us leave a five-star review wherever you're listening if you want to see more of our content, you can find links to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, OnlyFans, and more in the show notes. Come join the conversation with us and other Swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server. If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingnation at gmail.com.
Make sure you head on over to theswingnation.net and keep up to date on all things Swing Nation. We thank you so much for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Goodbye.
