Send us Fan MailThe Swing Nation PodcastLifestyle Education: Consent Best Practices with NCSF | Episode 58 In this swinger podcast episode, listen in on a Swinger Society Discord Staff webinar on Consent, where Susan Wright of the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom gives a course on the best practices regarding consent for people in the lifestyle. Learn some of the nuances of giving and receiving consent when in lifestyle situations and the latest on regulations and laws that effect the way lifestyle people can interact with one another. National Coalition for Sexual Freedom_______________- The Swing Nation -Main WebsiteQuick Navigation Website: -- (Find all our social media links more!)Follow us on Facebook!The Podcast Website_______________ - Swinger Society -Our Website to meet, connect eventsSwinger Society DiscordOur Facebook Group_______________ - Swinger Websites -SDCUsername: TheSwingNation** Use code 36313 for 14 days free! **SLSUsername: NorthernGuynSouthernGirl_______________ - Merch More -The Swing Nation MerchThe Swinger Pride FlagsSwinger Society Merch_______________ - Lacy’s Fun Links -VIP OnlyFansPREMIUM OnlyFans_______________ -- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS --Shameless Care: ED Medication and at home STD testingUse Code TSN at checkout for $30 off your order!Promescent® Make Love Longer, It’s Time for Great SexUse Code SwingNation for 5% off!Pinaq Liqueur; The Official Drink of The Swing NationUse Code TSN at checkout for 15% off!Non-monogamy Couples Course and Single Guy Mastery CourseUse Code ATLANTA for 50% off!Support the show- Thank you for the support! -
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Welcome to the Swing Nation podcast, a podcast by swingers for swingers where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions associated with our lifestyle come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe interview the experts learn and grow together. Join the nation. Most people have unprotected oral sex, right? Be honest. Now think about your last STD test. Did your doctor tickle your throat with something that looked like a giant Q-tip? Probably not.
Yet, that's the only way to check for oral gonorrhea or chlamydia, which are often asymptomatic. You need a better doctor. You need shamelesscare.com. Use coupon code TSN at checkout. So, Lacey, people are asking, how do they get to go to a party or an event with us? They check out swingersociety.net. You create a profile, you sign up for an event, and you come hang out with us. It's super easy. That's right. If you want to party with us and the other faces and names that you know from social media and TikTok, head on over to swingersociety.net. Can't wait to see you there.
Lacey, we get approached by couples all the time, and they want to know, like, where can they learn the one-on-ones of non-monogamy? Yeah, I totally get it. You want to get in the lifestyle, but you just don't know where to start. We recommend Sex by Sue's class on non-monogamy. She really helps couples learn how to communicate and do the lifestyle the correct way. Yeah, I think this lifestyle, you know, it's crucial not to step on the landmines that a lot of us do. Yeah. And you kind of learn the hard way, you know.
So having a class that you can take online, you know, in the privacy of your own home and kind of learn the ins and outs, learn, you know, how to approach the lifestyle, how to communicate with your partner about it. You know, I think it's something worth taking and we highly recommend it. Yeah. So I'll see you next time. home and kind of learn the ins and outs, learn, you know, how to approach the lifestyle, how to communicate with your partner about it. You know, I think it's something worth taking and we highly recommend it. Yeah.
So click below in the show notes, you'll find this link for that course. Check it out, guys. Bye. hey there pineapple people and welcome to the swing nation podcast we are your hosts northern guy and southern girl today's episode we're going to talk about consent we sure are um this is gonna be a little bit different so to to explain this a little bit um what happened is we had a um we had susan from ncsf come on to our discord server and teach a I'll see you next time.
to explain this a little bit um what happened is we had a um we had susan from ncsf come on to our discord server and teach a class on consent um we actually recorded the audio and the in the um video for that um and it was such a good conversation we decided that uh since september is consent month that we would uh include that audio into a podcast episode Yeah, so I'm super excited for everyone to hear this we hope you enjoy it yeah so we're gonna turn it over to Susan and learn a little bit about consent Great.
So, yeah, thank you for having me here we really love everything you all are doing around consent and putting that forward in the lifestyle i think it's been left far too long to the um the party runners and the organizers and i think that it's always wonderful when the voices rise up um in the communities and want to actually really kind of work together We'll be right back.
um the party runners and the organizers and I think that it's always wonderful when the voices rise up um in the communities and want to actually really kind of work together instead of just you know each individual having to deal with it so um I'm really glad that you're interested in this so yeah this is our got consent workshop and basically this just sums up the um you know the issues that you need to to know about when comes to consent. So the first thing to think about is in this workshop, I know there might be somebody on a phone or you might not be able to see the screen as well.
Just let me know afterwards. I will give my email address and I can send you all of these slides and all of the notes. So if you want to have this to kind of refer back to, we can do that. And that's for sight impaired, hearing impaired. And if there's any other accommodation, like if I speak too fast or you need me to repeat something, feel free, ask me, ask me to do so. It does not bother me at all. Okay, great. So you heard a little bit about the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom from Kylie. And we're actually a coalition of kink and consensual non-monogamy groups and businesses.
We have over 180 of these coalition partners and supporting members. And including podcasts, right? And including, here, I'm going to let people in. And so we can have groups or businesses join as a coalition partner. And what they can do is they can, they control NCSF. So we're a true grassroots organization. In workshops like this, I get as much from you as I give to you because we really adjust our education as we go along. It's a collaborative process.
So I want to hear from you if there's any issues, if you're here, anything that you have a question about, that's always really helpful because I'll likely adjust this whole presentation after this based on your feedback.
So you're really contributing um as an advocacy group we our main goal is to challenge discrimination and um in in government and in private sector so the the big thing i mean you might hear that um um you know somebody's lost child custody or somebody's gotten fired from their job because it's discovered that they're going to a swing club on the weekend or they tell a friend at work and then that that friend spreads it around and you get sexually harassed. There's a lot of stuff that comes with the stigma that we face.
And being so out on social media, being so active as you all are, is really amazing because that's really definitely helping to destigmatize what we're doing and will make it easier for all of us to be able to be out about enjoying this. We also provide this education, not just for like within our constituency, but also outside. So we do a ton of professional education. I'm actually going to Quad S in Vancouver. It's the I don't know. I don professional education. I'm actually going to Quad S in Vancouver.
It's the scientists that study sexuality and giving them this information so that they don't go off on a wild tangent and they actually do talk to the communities that they're researching, right? And we've been doing this for 25 years. This is our 25th anniversary. So this model has clearly worked. We've come a long way. The 90s was very interesting in developing a lot of this, both on the polyamory, consensual non-monogamy communities, as well as the kink communities. So just the basics about consent.
So you have kind of the grounding of it um over 20 states have no definition of consent in their sexual assault law so think about that like how can you judge if a sexual assault has occurred if you don't have a way to judge was permission given for that which tells you how retrograde all of our laws are and how really difficult it is to deal with issues of consent. I mean, really, in some ways, this is a fairly new concept.
The Me Too movement, the resurgence that happened in 2018, really kind of brought this to the fore, this awareness about power inequalities and that consent was not just kind of a black and white yes or no. So if you want to find out more about this, RAINN is actually a lovely group. If you ever have somebody who tells you that they've been assaulted, sexually assaulted, they feel like they might be in an abusive relationship, if they're at all questioning, send them to RAINN.
RAINN has got some very well-trained counselors, and they have a hotline, so people can call at any time, and they can actually help make an appointment so that you can speak to a counselor. But they'll do crisis management right there. And I use them a lot for that reason. So, you know, kind of this, this last bit of this overview is, is the concept of a consent culture. And that's what you all are really doing. You're kind of pushing forward a consent culture and, and helping to influence other people to kind of follow and adopt that consent culture.
This is, consent is just the basis of all of our community creeds. It has to be because we're doing erotic things with each other. And we've kind of had to figure it out on our own. And that started with like, no means no, this concept of if somebody says no, you don't push, you know, you don't pressure somebody, you don't come back and keep asking them questions after they've said no, that the ball's in their court.
And then that kind of shifted into like the yes means yes, the affirmative consent model, where it's not just so much as somebody touching and then you saying no, it's you need to ask before you touch um and within the kink communities we we had kind of a similar uh trajectory safe state and consensual came out in 1982 and the whole idea was to to make sure that you were doing safer sex to make sure that you understood the difference between fantasy and reality and that everything was consensual because you're playing with power.
And then it kind of morphed into risk-aware consensual kink in the late 90s. And that idea, the risk-aware, that you need to know what you're agreeing to, right? You have to understand what the risks are involved. You have to understand what the impact is going to be on you, what you're agreeing to. So that was kind of a heightened awareness of the fact that you can't just kind of say, well, do you want to do this? Yes or no. And then the person says yes or no, not knowing what they're agreeing to. And then now we have explicit prior permission for consent to kink.
And we'll talk about that because I think it's important for you all to know there's different levels of consent. You know, consent for kind of vanilla sex, consent for consensual non-monogamy has heightened requirements for consent because there's more risks involved when you're having sex with multiple people or having intimate relationships, even emotionally with multiple people. It just heightens the risk. And kink, it heightens the risk even more because it's a use of force or restraint and least power exchange. So best practices for consensual non-monogamy.
These best practices were developed based on, NCSF has done numerous surveys. We've done three specifically surveys on consent over the years. And then we've actually hosted tons and tons of consent discussions within the lifestyle kink community and other cross-dressing leather fetish communities just to really kind of come up with best practices that educators can use when they're talking about consensual non-monogamy. So I think that this is, I also want your feedback on this too, because we're very interested to hear what you think.
So the first thing is, are you free to withdraw prior consent at any time during the activity? I think this is the baseline of consent to sexual activity. It's not a roller coaster. No matter what you agree to, you can opt out at any time. And some people have difficulty with that concept. But that is a baseline, both legal and ethically, that you can stop what's happening at any time. The next thing is, are you able to consent to who will be involved in your activities prior to beginning?
And this is really important because NCSF receives reports from people who whose consent has been violated. And we regularly, a couple times a year, we get somebody saying, I negotiated with this person. And then while we were playing, their partner came in and started doing things that I didn't agree that their part, I mean, like, I had no idea this was going to happen,'s what they say. And that's not consensual. You need to be able to know what's happening. This is this. We see this most egregiously when it's like two women negotiate and they go, OK, we're going to play together. Right.
It's like, let's let's go off and do this thing together. And then suddenly in the middle of it, one of their male partners steps in and they maybe had not at all been prepared for that. And just because one of the partners' consents does not mean that you're negotiating as a package. If everybody's going to, both people are going to be involved or three people are going to be involved, all of those people need to be there before it starts to kind of get that agreement. The third one is, do you fully understand both the desires and the boundaries of other participants?
And what this is pointing to is that you really need to discuss before you do it. And I know that runs counter to just, you know, ordinary agreement to do sex where you're snaking your arm around somebody, you're taking them out to dinner, you know, it's, you're leaning in for the kiss. Those are the more traditional mainstream paths where there are certain cues that people know to opt out, step back, to not let the person, you know, come to their place.
And even then we're seeing cases of, um, the law considers that just letting somebody into your apartment after dinner means you're basically consenting to what happens, which you're not. Um, it's so implied that, um, it's really not appropriate to apply that to consensual non-monogamy.
So you do have to talk and, you know, you have to be able to turn that talk into sexy foreplay i do this it's like you know i meet somebody we're we're chatting about it i i do that foreplay where well you know i've been thinking it would be really fun if we you know uh went for a hike and maybe had some sexy fun out there you know maybe not penetration i wouldn't want that like on a on a but you know, a little head would be really fun as we're hiking, you know? So you like turn that into like exciting banter behavior. Um, something like that sprung on you. Oh, let's go on a hike.
And you haven't really discussed that sexual stuff. That's where you starting to getting into non-consensual activity. And especially something like that, where it's, you know, you're outside of the bedroom, right? Because we're doing these more heightened things. You also have to have enough information to understand and agree to any potential risks involved and to inform each other about any changes. Um, just, you know, informing somebody if you have an STI like herpes is very important to do before you get intimate with them.
So you have to feel comfortable enough to disclose that information and and trust that they'll disclose to you. Right. I've gotten very comfortable about it. And I think that that really helps people disclose because I'm just very forward about disclosing any issues that I might have, especially like any physical issues. Oh my gosh, I'm not feeling very well tonight. Or, you know, I was doing stuff and my knees kind of hurt. So I can't bend my knees as well. Right. You know, that's like important to know. So you got to feel comfortable enough to talk to each other about those kinds of things.
And of course, it's different when you're talking about like relationships versus one off sex. So here's like some more relationship dynamics when it comes to to consent. Do you feel like you have an equal say in deciding your relationship agreements with each of your partners? When one of the partners dictating terms, that's a huge red flag. We see this in particular where there's hierarchical or power dynamics in play. You'll see people who are both kinky and consensually non-monogamous. And there's maybe one dominant and several submissives who are in this relationship.
But you have to be able to pull out of those dynamics and negotiate as equals and make sure that your needs are being met. I think the second relationship consent issue is you need to base your consent on your own desires rather than what you're being asked to do or rather than what you've seen other people do. Some people feel pressured by their social circle, the environment that they're in to maybe go along to get along.
And we see this, you know, in community settings of parties, you know, it's, we don't want to be pulling people along, sweeping people along by a wonderful current that we're enjoying, but they may not be ready for, um, being aware of everybody's comfort level is really important.
And so what you're deciding to do needs to come from within, I don't know about you guys, but I've been to clubs where it's like, you know, there's a couple breaking down and, and it's like, ah, it really start to feel like maybe they're both interested, but somebody's pushed a little hard, you know, to get somebody there, which is which is not consensual. And are you aware that consent to one thing doesn't mean that you have to consent to anything else and that current consent doesn't imply future consent? um you know and this is we is, we, you know, we can say yes to oral, no to penetration.
Um, yes to having sex with that person, not that person. We can decide, all these people can touch me except for that person. Like you need to feel comfortable doing that. And I think sometimes new people don't feel comfortable setting their own boundaries, right? So this is a personal sexual exploration. You really need to, everybody needs to feel empowered and everybody needs to feel empowered to be able to find their own boundaries, find their own limits, decide their own path. And that's one of the things to be aware of. And did you know that you can request changes to help you feel safer?
For example, some people, you know, they would want to have somebody near during activities or other people present to like hear you discuss what it is that you're going to do. Some people may not want to go off alone in a room, they may want to stay in a room where there's a lot more people. And I think that just is a personal choice that should not be overridden by somebody else to decide for you.
and then here's some things about consent in the law um are you aware that your choices about sti prevention and pregnancy planning and or prevention are these choices respected by all of your Um, are you aware that your choices about STI prevention and pregnancy planning and or prevention, are these choices respected by all of your partners? Um, you know, we're hearing a lot more about stealthing. Stealthing is not illegal, but passing on an STI when you know you have an STI is illegal. Um, and so it's something that, um that we have to be aware of is happening.
We get regularly, we get reports about somebody saying this person stealthed them. They just removed the condom in the middle. And it's so non-consensual. Really, people feel so very violated by that, even if they don't get an STI, because it goes against everything that they had everything that they had agreed to um and um for those who think it's no big deal it you know they need to be told this is a huge deal you should never ever do this um also keeping in mind that there's cultural differences and the language that we use, people have different interpretations for it.
For example, like rough sex. Right. If you say I'm into rough sex or even kink, what does that mean? Right. What is that meaning to you? And what is it that I'm agreeing to? So we need to kind of dig deeper into the words because that can have legal consequences. If you're agreeing to something and, um, or you're proposing something and the person who's agreeing to it doesn't realize what it is that you're really proposing. And then are you able to consent freely without facing coercion, force, or manipulation? Um, that's starting to get forced. Definitely.
Um, you cannot force somebody to have sex with you. That's illegal. That's sexual assault. Um, but even, um, coercion and manipulation is, um, you know, there's things in the law about fraud, having sex with somebody under assumed. All right. So I just want to do a couple more things here about consent for non-monogamy, which is the ability to consent. So ability to consent is really important. So the first thing is you really do, it really is on everybody to understand another person's limitations. Somebody saying, oh, you know, they have sex with somebody.
And then afterwards, that person's like, I was really drunk. You saw me drink a whole bottle of wine. You know, I didn't know what was happening. The other the person who initiated and had the sex is like, oh, well, how could I know? Well, you it's your responsibility to know, and the law is taking this much more seriously now. Um, they really don't like it when, um, somebody initiates sex while another person is asleep. There's that's actually written into sexual assault laws now.
And certainly, um, use of drugs or alcohol is, um, you know, if you can't drive, you're not, you can't consent to sex, basically. And then for mental capacity, some people are bipolar or have mental issues. And it's a good idea to discuss this when you're not in a mental health episode so that you can figure out, okay, well, when I'm manic, this is okay. When I'm depressed, this is okay. So you're kind of setting those terms when you're in a sound frame of mind. And then the other big thing is check your privilege.
You guys all have a lot of privilege in the lifestyle because you're moderators, right? And you're influencers. And that's a lot of privilege. There's people who are coming into this community and are just starting to explore. And some of them will do anything, literally anything, because it's, you know, you guys have the key kingdom. And so you have to be careful that you're not kind of pressuring or coercing people into doing something because they think that they need to in order to have access. And this can kind of apply to all kinds of things.
The people who are historically disenfranchised because of their race, their nationality, their sexuality, their gender identity, age, mental health, health, economic status. And then, of course, our social status, as I was talking about. We need to keep aware of this. We certainly, NCSF gets reports of people who are more experienced taking advantage of people who are not. And I think that's the worst thing, because I think it's on all of us to educate people and make sure that they have just as much chance to explore this as we did, right? And then the last thing here to consider is trauma.
There is a lot of people who have been violated before, either as children or sexually assaulted as an adult, and they can have a really strong reaction to something that happens that you might think is minor, but it evokes that flashback to past experience. And people can freeze and even have a smile on their face. So you think everything's fine, or they can fawn, they can really kind of like praise the person that they're triggered by. It's kind of a effort to try to save themselves, but that's not consent. So this is very tricky stuff.
One of the things that I like to do when, you know, I suggest when you're getting into a relationship with somebody is to really discuss their their past in terms of what kind of trauma they might have had because you know as you as you have more of an emotional commitment to somebody you have more of a responsibility to make sure that they're okay and people can be triggered unexpectedly and and it can be a kind of a scary thing when that happens for everybody around and if you understand where this is coming from you can be more helpful.
NCSF also has a trauma pamphlet that you can access on our website. It's under our consent counts program, and it has all these reactions, the short-term reactions that people have long-term. Too often we rely on, oh, well, they're saying that nothing really happened or everything's okay. You know, denial is a trauma reaction. Laughter is a trauma reaction. There was that big case, that Italian case where Amanda Knox, her roommate was murdered. And when the police pulled her into the police station, she was laughing and she was doing cartwheels.
And they took that as evidence that she was guilty. And yet it's really well known that people can have that kind of an odd reaction, an extreme reaction to any kind of traumatizing events that they're going through. So it's very hard to just look at how somebody is reacting and then judge them, which is one reason why it's not a great idea for everybody to pile in and say, oh, well, I think this happened or, oh, I think that person's a good person. Maybe it didn't happen because you really have no idea. It can be very difficult to judge.
So I want to stop sharing for a second and talk about some of this, if that's okay with you all. Anxiety can cause ED, like the kind you get while watching your partner with someone else. You're having the time of your life, yet are having stage fright. Most men in the lifestyle use prescription ED medication for this reason. Shameless Care should be your provider. Shameless is less expensive than other companies and has a 50-state network of physicians who are lifestyle-friendly. Use coupon code TSN for $30 off. ShamelessCare.com.
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Click the link in the show notes below to get yours today. so i want to stop sharing for a second and um and talk about some of this if that's okay with you all i you know i have actually some questions if you want like just so's, here's a theoretical question. Someone comes up and rubs a person's buttocks and says, Ooh, I'd like to go in the other room and have sex with you. They have had sex one time before. Is this consensual? I think. No, because they, um, they should ask before they rub the person's body or touch their body. They should say, is it okay if I touch you here?
Is it okay for me to touch you? Yeah. Especially because I think I don't, I don't know about you guys, but I've always, I mean, I've had this reaction before I've had sex with somebody and then you see them, you know, even if it's just the next day or in the next event and you want to run up and grab them and be all like huggy, but that person may not want to. So I think that we have to be more hyper aware of even within Thank you. just the next day or in the next event. And you want to run up and grab them and be all like huggy, but that person may not want to.
So I think that we have to be more hyper aware of even within our social spaces about consent. And I think it's more important for us, you know, when we're in social spaces and where it's for us to be a kind of a role model for that, to show others, like when they see us doing that, when they see, you know, the people that they look up to, the influencers seeing, oh, they're always asking for consent when they're around each other. And that's going to make more of an impact. Totally. I mean, it might feel weird to go up to people. And I never suggest that you go up and go, do you want a hug?
You know, kind of like leaning in with my hands out, because that can kind of be pressuring, especially if you're a big guy, right? You come in at somebody with your arms out. I've had to like tell guys, no, just stand there with your arms down and say, are you hugging today? It sounds silly, but you know what? It really kind of brings everybody who hears that into the circle of trust and people feel better to see, oh, you know, I don't have to be on edge. You know, my space is going to be respected. So I always encourage that. Here's another question.
You're having sex with five or six other people. I wanted to make it really fun. At a in a bedroom with an open door somebody wanders up and starts touching the breast of one of the women without asking is this consensual i'll answer susan it's not consensual yeah i think that it often like in our spaces this is not. You're supposed to ask before you touch, even if you see a wonderful, you know, group thing going on. But what if it's a private party, where you're all have had sex together? Right? And, you know, implied before denied is in place.
there are some situations where some people feel like it's okay to do that. Right. But I think that this shows why it's a good idea to have rules, even at your private parties, you know, even like if you're having like a few couples over, you know, it's, it's actually almost more important when it's small because it's almost implied. Oh, it's just us chicks here. Let's just, you know, everything's free and loose to even say, okay, you know, I just want to make sure everybody's here.
You know, whatever your consent culture is, just make sure you ask before you touch or, hey, how does everybody feel here about like, you know, having an orgy, which is basically implying that anybody who's in that room is going to be like up for you know whatever's happening um so I think it's a good idea to to be aware that you do need to discuss this even in places where you think it might not apply right because normally Dan's right you just don't do that but I've been in situations where that's happened. This is, this is my favorite one.
My favorite example, because unfortunately it happens. Uh-oh, a dick slip happened. Um, everything was going fine until suddenly someone was penetrating an ass instead of a vagina. It was unintentional on an accident. Is this a consent violation? Because you're going to get asked this at some point.
I mean, you didn't ask for the dick in your ass, but, you know, right then and there right you you wouldn't go any further than that yeah you know i think that that's you've really hit on it it's an accident but it is a consent violation sometimes consent violations can be an accident um and the key is to stop right there right to to kind of stop everything um we've had this reported to us in different ways where um they did dick slip oh my gosh pulled out stopped all the concern was about i want to make sure you're okay you might have a reaction here i know you didn't want that or you you know what I mean like gave the person space and that was processed really well because it was an accident and the person who accidentally did it really showed it was an accident we've also had it reported to us where the person who did it stopped with the dick slip but started having sex again vaginally penetrating the person and acted like oh because it was an accident it didn't matter and the person who it happened to felt extremely violated almost by more by the reaction afterwards and and the way that they didn't stop immediately and didn't take due care um they still kind of felt like it was an accident, but they also kind of felt like maybe it was intentional because of the way that they kept on going and kept trying to brush it off.
So a lot of times how you react afterwards to an accident is really key. Is there any questions about this part? Because you're going to be dealing mostly with the consensual non-monogamy. I definitely want to go on and explain a little bit about the, um, the consent to kink as well. Um, I actually have a question. Okay. Um, so the, are you free to withdraw? It's really important. And, and a lot of people will ask me, they'll say, you know, let's say that I'm in a position and I'm, you know, I'm not, because a lot of the people that we deal with are newer to the lifestyle, right?
So let's say it's their first time swapping. They see their partner with someone else and they're like, you know what? I'm actually not cool with this. What, what is something that we can tell them? How can we tell them to withdraw in a comfortable way? You know, a safe word is an amazing thing. And I think it should be just as common in polyamory consensual non-monogamy as it is in kink because it's, it's that, or even a phrase.
I think any new couple that are just starting to explore together, they need to have a game plan going in and having a phrase or a word that they can slip into a conversation. I mean, it could be before there's even sex happening, you're standing there talking to somebody and you're like, no, not happening. And so you slip that word in to let your partner know, okay, we need to kind of, okay, let's go off and like talk about this together.
I see so much more success when people who are already together in a relationship and they're starting to explore, treat it as if like we're a team sport here, you know, we're going to be each other's wingman, you know what I mean?
And then that I think helps bond them together more, but yeah, the safe word is a really helpful thing to do, especially with, if it's red, you can even say oh my gosh you know your leg is looking really red you know oh your feet your cheeks are really red you know what i mean and it's like oh that gets the red in there without really twigging and that's a nice graceful way to segue out you know know, without somebody having to be like, I got to go talk to you. You got to stop this right now.
And I think also it helps people feel like there is an eject button, which might make them feel less like they have to do something to stop it. You know what I mean? If you feel like you've got a little bit more control in a situation, it might be uncomfortable, but you could sit with your discomfort a little bit more and see, oh, am I just feeling jealous? Is this, you know, natural feelings I need to get past? But if they need to hit the eject button, then they both go out and talk about it and then come back and hopefully the people that they're playing with are fine.
I think it's also important for the experienced people to create those moments of privacy so those new people can have that conversation um we played with a new local couple recently and we were talking about going back to our house and i said here here's the option it's on the table we're going to walk outside you about that. And if you'd rather go somewhere else to have a drink, we'll do that instead. Oh, that's lovely. I love that. I love that. Giving people space, you know, so that they can talk about it. I think that's really important. And putting things on the table, too.
you know, having different options for them to consider. I think that's really a wonderful thing to do too. So they don't have to just have sex or that's it. We're out of here. We're going to go find somebody else's wife. You know what I mean?
It's like, okay, we can play together or we can go away and talk to each other or meet outside of this, know yeah maybe we need a consent kit for people you know suggestions what to do in these situations all right is there anything else on that there's the only thing i'd really other thing i'd like you to talk about i think for me you know everything we've kind of talked about here is pretty clear i think where it where it gets confusing especially for non-monogamous people is kind of in these group settings and playrooms and and things like that when there's multiple couples in a space and figuring out who it's okay to engage with and not engage with and how do you do that kind of in the heat of the moment if you had any advice or specifics on that I think it'd be great for our community yeah I do think that it helps to have that consent policy to have that consent agreement before you're in the heat of the moment because I think it is harder to do it in the heat of the moment because then you're having to like tell somebody no thank you which we've all done right we turn around and see somebody's touching us and it's like no thanks um but I think like you know you have the agreement well if the door is open you can go in the door is closed nobody's allowed to go in you know those kinds of agreements with these private house parties um I think helps or in this room if you're not invited on the bed right you can't you can't be involved i mean you could just say that in every room if you're not invited onto the bed you can watch but you can't touch so it really helps to have all that in place beforehand so that people know what's expected of them because i agree it it's those little parties that it's the hardest to try to figure out when it's friends yeah i guess for us it's not even the small parties like that i mean we go to a lot of clubs and like uh you know the hotel takeovers and stuff like that and sometimes they have a group space that you know ends up a lot of people end up in that area and it's you know and sometimes it's even kind of a revolving door where it's not like okay our group had a conversation we all went in there together and we're all on the same page but then like another couple comes in or another you know and they kind of are on the bed you know i mean like i think that that to me is the the hardest situation to navigate and i think what you're saying is right if somebody approaches you and you're not comfortable you just tell them to stop that i mean that's really i just don't know if there's is there a better way than that of trying to to navigate that type of scenario i do always ask i i know that some people don't i do always ask if i'm like approaching um and then i'm very free with saying no if i get touched or approached if i'm not interested um i i think that that you know especially in that situation they need consent policy especially in that situation it should still be you need to be invited into the onto the bed you know to touch you can't stand off if you're going to stand off the bed and touch you're you're actually crossing that line if line.
If that's explained to everybody, you know, that you can stand there, wait to be invited in, you know, then you have a ring of people around you, right? But that's, that's fine. I mean, if you're in that group space, that may be what you want. And then you can kind of pick and choose and have it right there. Not just like in the rules, but like on the door, don't touch anyone on a bed until you're invited onto the bed. You know, like big, big letters and a nice, beautiful picture. I think it would. Yeah, because you got to have something sexy to for people to read the words. Right.
And I think that that would help tremendously. I have concerns about like these dark rooms where people can just go in and touch in the dark rooms. Um, the dark rooms may be going by the way of the dodo just because of legalities for the event producer. There's a lot of liabilities in that. Does that include, um, glory holes as well? Yeah, because because where you're doing anonymous kind of sexual contact, especially since so many state laws have laws against passing on an STI. Um, if somebody does that in your space, then, then you could be held liable for doing that.
So I don't know how it's happened.
I think a lot of times because it's just us, you know, we've kind of gotten away with doing things like that, but as more and more new people come in, there's going to people who come in, who get an STI, who are going to be pissed and are going to sue the event owner for that because that is absolutely something you can sue for because any kind of um like medical long-lasting um issue um you can have pain and suffering it could impact your work you know what i mean so that is like the kind of thing that you can sue for and we do see people suing each other um primarily right now it's it's almost entirely within the kink community by causing medical injuries to somebody yeah it becomes an assault at that point right yeah well passing on an STI, I think it's actually sexual assault for doing that.
And then that's actually even worse because it's higher penalties. You don't want to be on a sex offender registry list. It can ruin your life. But for the owner of the group, it could be criminal just in terms of you're facilitating this to happen. You know, more likely it's not going to be criminal. It's going to be civil. You'll be sued. Yeah, we were we just recorded a podcast last night where we talked about this thing that's happening in Canada. This guy removed his condom, you know, halfway through sex and, uh, that's becoming a law in Canada, uh, for, for non-consent. Yeah.
That's stealthing. And, um, California is also considering that, um, it's rampant, it's rampant going on.
And, um, I think we all realize how non-consensual and horrible that is to do that to somebody so do you have any specific issues that you've been dealing with that we can talk about here for a few minutes no that was that was great season i really appreciate that and it's interesting to me that you know it's we we kind of operate right now mostly in a virtual space we've had one resort takeover uh that we we did and very much relied on the resort for, you know, a lot of the, you know, their procedure for a lot of this stuff.
But it transmits to the digital space as far as the way people interact in the discord and some of the issues and problems we've had.
not so much physical consent, but, you know, it goes, you know, we have issues with like, uh, you know, body shaming or, you know, unsolicited but you know it goes you know we have issues with like uh you know body shaming or you know unsolicited you know picture sending and things like that so it is interesting how that some of a lot of what you're saying is transfers to our our community yeah because you definitely want to decide whether the rules are your community you know what i mean and then hold people to them because it's actually wonderful to way to weed people out who can't follow you know what i mean who can't be mature about making agreements and you know what i mean if it's if one of your rules is don't send dick pics to somebody unless they ask for it right um and if somebody can't follow that rule they might not be a good fit for your group.
Well, they're also, you know, working on legislation to in a lot of states to have that criminalized to for it to be like a form of sexual assault at this point. So. It is it's only polite. I mean, please, it really is. That life drives me crazy.
So many people have dick pics as their profile pic you can't even like see a comment without seeing it um but uh but yeah we haven't gone that way I'd be very interested to see if that that becomes some sort of a law um you can't do that I mean I could see it with fat FOSTA FOSTA is really you know crimping our style that's why everybody gets their social media account canceled it's it's why we have trouble finding resorts that we're willing to do a hotel takeover you know there's certain ones that just won't um yeah I think we're going to see a little bit more problems.
We see people lose their banking. We just had a club lose their ability to process credit cards and they're on the match list. There is no appeal for that. Once you get put on that list by a bank, you are so screwed. And so they used to take all credit cards for their party. They had like half the people come to the last party. So they could just completely ruin their business. These are the headwinds that we're facing right now. And it's a really serious legal time for us. We kind of just went through a golden age where we had so many rights. But especially if they attack Lawrence v.
Texas, we're going to be in a lot of trouble. If they pass this EARN IT Act, we're going to be in more trouble because that gets rid of protections. I don't know what effect it's going to have on discord, but then it makes you liable for what other people say.
So it's going to have an extreme effect on all of us um so i mean i've been contacting all of my senators and of course all the responses that i get back are child sex trafficking and this is for the children um so we're going to vote for this because it's for the children and it's just um i've actually had a meeting with um the woodhall foundation this morning because um we're gonna work on some verbiage to kind of give to our influencers to kind of work against you know because if we get people fired up about this stuff like we have this power to get these people fired up and and if hundreds of thousands and millions of people see like this is really bad for for not only our freedoms but like for so many sources of income i mean there's so many women who are on only fans and and are doing that stuff you know it can completely change the course of so much.
So yeah, that's why it's, it's important for us to be associated and know in the know about these things. I'm so glad you're working with Woodhull on this. Um, NCSF has kind of partnered with them on a lot of this stuff. Um, they're a DC group, you know what I mean? They've got a lot of ability here.
I'm going to put this put this into the um into the chat so you can see what we're talking about with earn it if you want to click on this um this is the petition that woodhull helped create um i think it's on the woodhull site but that's our our link to it how many up to do we know i'm sorry what i was curious i was curious how many uh names were on that i think when i signed it only at like 25 or something yeah i got it out early as soon as i was sending it out to everybody it's 300 signatures it's like nothing that That's it. It's nothing.
See, you know, 10,000 would give this some heft, you know? Yeah. And that's like, there's people like me and Dan who can get it there, but we just, we have that power. We, but we have to do. Yeah.
This this is kind of getting off topic what we're talking about but i i think you know again having like you know um kylie was talking about having a meeting with the influencers to really good because i you know they need to understand it and understand the talking points of it but then what we what we have the ability to do then is take that link put it in our what we our link trees our beacons links across our social media and then when kylie's on tiktok with 5 000 people sitting in her tiktok you know she can say oh are you guys aware of this thing you know this act this is what it means this was what it would mean for us um you know if you don't support if you think that's not something that should pass there's a link in my bio that you can go and you can sign a petition that that's opposing that um you know and it's possible in one night you could get four five six you know a thousand people to sign that um so i really that's really where we could you know use our team to influence things like that because they have so much reach.
It's just a matter of getting the information in their hands, getting them to understand it. And if people, you know, people obviously we're not, us is like the swinger society where we'd never, you know, force an opinion on somebody. If people don't want to support it, then they don't, they don't have to do that.
But for the ones that do, you know, we can inform them and have them, you know, really push that kind of stuff i i think i see that as where this particular group of you know social media influencers can really be kind of powerful because i would i guess that's not something we've really had the ability to do you know prior yeah and definitely let let me know because um ncsf sees a lot of it with our communities so i can give you examples from our communities um woodhull tends to work a lot with more the um sex workers so they might have a sex worker focused um when i asked for talking points to it was mostly sex worker focused so i started creating my own because i'm doing all these podcasts i'm trying to drive people there so uh yeah so get what they've got and um i can contribute as well yeah if you have talking i think kylie maybe ties susan in if she wants to sit on that next we have a webinar with with woodhall i don't know if we've set a date yet but to go over i talk all the time so i'm sure she wouldn't mind if you're meeting with ricky yeah yeah we have a webinar coming up um next month and then Thank you.
to go over. I talk all the time. So I'm sure she wouldn't mind if you're meeting with Ricky. Yeah. Yeah. We have a webinar coming up next month and then I'm doing a live with that, with Mandy on my Instagram and we're going to, so putting all of that stuff out there and like letting people know what sexual freedom is and what it means to them and like just giving them the resources is what we're really excited that we're able to do now. So, yeah, I think the de-platforming everybody knows about. Everybody has seen somebody get de-platformed.
well this group has lost hundreds of thousands of followers, if not millions over the, you know, just the last year. Because randomly TikTok will decide because you put Swinger in a, you know, Senate somewhere that, that means you're, you're bad and you have to get, you know, off of a platform. Yeah. NCSF lost our Twitter account. It's like, dude, you're coming after NCSF.
I feel like you can do anything on twitter like tilters i know i know and we couldn't and there was no way to appeal it there's no way to appeal this stuff because it's all ai and essentially the urn act that's what it's going to be the ai is going to be worse and the problem with the ai is that you know it just sees one thing and it's going to be, the AI is going to be worse. And the problem with the AI is that, you know, it just sees one thing and it's like, it's not a human. So, right. Like I can see you and I can say, okay, well, this is her only violation.
And, you know, she's not, but the AIs don't think like that. So that's the real problem with the earn it act is that it's essentially all of your platforms everything whatsapp kick so we use those a lot as swingers right they're gonna have control over all of that and that for the swinger community is detrimental yes i mean can you imagine that we're all going to lose touch with each other? You know, we've come so far to where we don't have to hang that pineapples, you know, shopping carts, like we're able to communicate and we're able to grow.
And like, like we've grown this community up to, you know, we're almost at 16,000 and we've changed so many lives. And to take that away from people, it's, it can be detrimental to them. Well, I'm glad you're doing this. I'm glad you're going to get the word out because nobody else is defending us, but us in our hands.
We had the conversation with John and Jackie that they made a very good point to that i guess you know everybody assumes like oh well if it's not right like somebody will like you know i mean like the right thing is just going to happen like you know i mean like i think everybody kind of has that assumption that like well somebody will you know if that's messed up if it's not right somebody will stand up like you know i mean it's i don't think people realize that especially when it comes to things that are kind of taboo or sexual in nature that there's there's not too many people that are willing to stand up and say oh actually i think we should be able to talk about our sexuality on the internet like and not be censored for it and like this this rule that you're saying is to you know like you're saying you're trying to stop child sex trafficking but there's already a thousand laws in place to prevent that.
Why do you need this one? What's different about this one? And the only things that are different is you can regulate A, B, and C, where you can't do that before. And A, B, and C really has nothing to do with sex trafficking.
you know i mean so i think with sex they want to stop us talking right understanding they only get that the good talking points where the average joe can understand that and then be able to push that out repeated want to stop us talking right understanding they only get that the good talking points where the average joe can understand that and then be able to push that out repeatedly um and get people fired up about it i think that's that's important because i think people would be if but it's just you know it's complicated legible people can't wrap their head around and right now the only thing they're hearing is oh this is to stop child sex trafficking and well of course i wouldn't want to have child sex trafficking so why would i not support that well i'm glad you guys are doing this yay um yeah and i'll help however i can because it's it's we can't we're trying to get the kink community and and just the polyamory community they just can't have it I think it's going to take people who are online who, yeah, they're the ones where we're, that's what we're going toward.
And I think too, getting, so bridging that gap because, and I've actually reached out to quite a few polyamorous, larger creators, larger kink creators to bridge that gap.
And all of us come together because listen, we're, we might not be polyamorous and they might not be swingers and we as swingers we're not all a part of the kink community but it all is under that same umbrella so i think it's really important for us to show togetherness to fight back against stigmas because it's all the same stigma essentially you know um so i think it's really important for us to come together and that's going to be online because that's where everything is. Right. Everyone's on social media. Everyone's on TikTok. Yeah, no, that's how we're linked together.
Like if we lose this, we really are going to be in trouble. And maybe that's the way to say it.
It's like,'s like you know we'll lose our community if if they crack down on us like this if discord suddenly is responsible for everything that people say in each channel you know what if discord has to stop letting people talk about sex that's the biggest problem with that law is if you make the companies liable for everything on their platforms they're going to have to rule with a heavy hand not necessarily because they want to but because they just to cover they don't want to be you know to protect themselves from lawsuits they're going to have to do it and and that's that's going to be devastating it's you know similar like you said with that other one that passed and essentially closed down craigslist and so many other places because they didn't want to be liable for things so but all right susan i think that's it i don't did you stop recording okay let's oh i did not i could have ended that uh stop We'll be right back.
stop okay guys and that that wraps up the discord class we had about consent and a little bit of conversation afterwards about some of the advocacy that um we've kind of partnered with ncsf and the woodhull foundation for um all that things stuff that i think is really important and you're going to hear a lot more about that from us in the future yeah I hope y'all enjoyed this I know we did and we can't wait to partner with them again alright I think with that in a world full of apples be the pineapple be the pineapple guys bye if you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us, leave a five-star review wherever you're listening.
If you want to see more of our content, you can find links to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, OnlyFans, and more in the show notes. Come join the conversation with us and other Swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server. If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingnation at gmail.com. Make sure you head on over to theswingnation.net and keep up to date on all things Swing Nation. We thank you so much for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Goodbye.
