Send us Fan MailLifestyle Education | Exploring Swinger ‘What Ifs’ with Lifestyle Coach Lauren Hayes | Episode 169In this episode of The Swing Nation Podcast, Dan and Lacy are joined by Swinging Lifestyle Coach Lauren Hayes to dive deep into the “what ifs” that often hold people back from exploring the lifestyle.From questions like “What if my partner falls in love with someone else?” to “What if they enjoy sex with others more than with me?” and “What if I can’t perform?”—Dan, Lacy, and Lauren address the fears and anxieties that can come with venturing into non-monogamy. With open conversation and expert insights, they tackle these common concerns head-on, offering guidance for anyone curious about joining the lifestyle but feeling nervous about potential challenges.Tune in for a thoughtful discussion that may just ease your worries and give you the confidence to explore new experiences with your partner!- The Swing Nation -Main Website Quick Navigation Website: -- (Find all our social media links more!)- Swinger Society - Our Website to meet, connect events Swinger Society Discord Our Facebook Group- Swinger Websites -Kasadie 90 day free trialUsername: TheSwingNation SDC 14 day free trial Username: TheSwingNation** Use code 36313 for 14 days free! ** SLSUsername: NorthernGuynSouthernGirl- Merch More -Order Your Merch Here!- Lacy’s Fun Links -VIP OnlyFansPREMIUM OnlyFans-- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS --Wisp : Making sexual healthcare inclusive, cost-effective, and accessible—for everyoneUse Code SWING at checkout for 15% off your oder!Shameless Care: ED Medication and at home STD testingUse Code TSN at checkout for $30 off your order!Promescent® Make Love Longer, It’s Time for Great SexUse Code SwingNation for 5% off!Sing it Bikinis: adjustable one-size styles, thoughtfully crafted to flatter every body type.Support the show- Thank you for the support! -
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This podcast is intended for adult audiences. Over the age of 18, it contains adult language and situations. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to us, and not of any employer, organization, committee, or other group or individuals. This podcast is not intended to be taken as professional advice. Welcome to the Swing Nation podcast, a podcast by swingers, for swingers, where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions associated with our lifestyle.
Come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe, interview the experts, learn and grow together. Join the nation. So Lacey, people are asking, how do they get to go to a party or an event with us? They check out swingersociety.net. You create a profile, you sign up for an event, and you come hang out with us. Super easy. That's right. If you want to party with us and the other faces and names that you know from social media and TikTok, head on over to swingersociety.net. Can't wait to see you there. Sexual health care can be so much more than STI testing.
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We we are your hosts northern guy and southern girl and today we have a very special guest with us uh we're talking to lauren hayes who's known on social media is the lifestyle coach right is that that's what your handles are swinging lifestyle coach swinging lifestyle coach uh and we actually so over the summer we went to naughty in new orleans with her and i think we talked about that a little bit on our naughty podcast but we got an opportunity to kind of do a class with her and it was swinger what ifs and so a bunch of people that were at naughty came in and they we kind of just threw some what ifs out there and then with us and lauren we kind of talked through them.
And I can remember after we left that, I think we all kind of said like, wow, that was great. We need to like capture that. Like, I wish we had a recording of that. I wish I had the audio of that.
Um, and so we decided to kind of follow up with that and do a podcast and kind of maybe go over some of the questions we got at naughty, but then maybe some of the questions that we get on social media and I'm sure you get as well um because i think there's a lot of people that are curious about this lifestyle and i think part of what prevents them from exploring it is they have all these fears and a lot of those fears are kind of i guess based in these what if questions right so like um you know i'd really like to try this this is a hot fantasy but what if and you know insert insert blank and i think that's really people kind of work themselves up into a tizzy about these what ifs and they're they're hesitant to even start this because they have all these all this fear and anxiety around what could happen if they do um so i think we're going to talk about some of that stuff and i think it might maybe help ease some people's minds and one to let them know they're not the only ones that have those fears.
And then two, maybe some of the ways they can address those. Um, what do you think, Lauren, you got any input on, on that? No, I think that's great. I, um, there are just questions that you guys know that you guys hear over and over again. I hear it over and over again. So the more we can just document it and put it out there, I think that's great. Okay. So I think if we're going to discuss what ifs, I think one of the ones we probably hear the most, and I think this actually came up at the Naughty New Orleans too, is what if I fall in love with somebody else, right?
So what if we enter this lifestyle, we start meeting other couples, and what if my husband or wife falls in love with one of those other couples? What do people do about that? How do you squash that fear or the anxiety that surrounds that? Well, okay, so first of all, I don't think we can squash any fears. I think one thing to acknowledge about going into lifestyle is that we are going to have some fears going into lifestyle. There's no way to go into anything new without any risk whatsoever. And, of course, one of the bigger risks that we sense is losing our partner.
So I have a couple answers to that. One is, you know, in terms of what if my partner falls in love with someone else? One thing I like to, I would like to say more often, especially to monogamous people who are asking me this, aren't you afraid your partner is going to fall in love with someone else? As I'm like, well, aren't you? Because I feel like this is not an issue that is exclusive to lifestyle. I think cheating and being left for somebody else happens in the monogamous world too. Now, having said that, of course, we are meeting more people.
And of course, I will say that it is riskier because we're putting ourselves in intimate situations with other people. So I would say the what if has a couple. It depends. So one thing to get really clear with your partner on as you're entering lifestyle is what are we getting into this for? So some people get into it for the social scene. Some people get into it for more sex, sexual variety, sexual fantasy, exploring bisexuality. Now, of course, we would hope we have those conversations. And how honest are we being with ourselves and our partners about this?
So I think one of the biggest things to get clear on with your partner is are we going into this looking for like a polyamory type situation? Are we do we want to be going into polyamory or do we want to be swingers? And I think sometimes and this is why I say getting honest with yourself. Sometimes people are like, well, I think I'd like to be polyamorous, but I think my partner would like to be a swinger. And so I'm just going to go the swinging route. And just to have those hard conversations of like, what are you really wanting out of this? Making sure you're on the same page.
And also, this is kind of an interesting one. I had a client recently, what does that look like to you? So this couple had a situation where he was becoming more emotionally attached to someone.
She was becoming more physics, doing more physical with her other, like they were dating some people separately he felt like you know being seeing someone over and over physically was more serious than she thought seeing someone just emotionally was more serious and that's a great conversation to have between the two of you because i would say textbooks would say emotional connection is going to lead you quicker to a path of being in love with someone than a physical connection. But, you know, there's always different combos.
But what I thought was interesting about that situation is that they thought different things. She thought emotional was more dangerous. He thought physical was more dangerous. So that's just, you know, it's always about being on the same page with your partner. And then, sorry to keep going, but this is another, like, let's talk about all these fears straight up. What if one of us falls in love with somebody else and just talk through that scenario? Well, we don't want that. So I would end that relationship or, um, you know, I don't know how I would feel about it if that happened.
Let's, you know, go slow. So one thing I do want to say also about this and you guys can concur. It's not like you just meet somebody one night and you fall in love with them. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the fear.
It seems like a lot of people are like, Oh man, what if we go to a club, we have sex with somebody and then my husband is in love with them yeah yeah and i think that's the fear it seems like a lot of people are like oh man what if we go to a club we have sex with somebody and then my husband is in love with that yeah and you know i i don't think that's a very realistic for that yeah that would take a lot for somebody to leave and drop their whole life to go run away with someone after a one-night experience right and then the second thing to that is like you said maybe it's okay like you know we all are afraid of emotions and connections and things like this but what you're saying is hey if if that's something you're open to then you and your partner didn't need to be on the same page maybe that's not even a bad thing if you find a third person or maybe even another couple that you guys fall in love with that might not be a negative thing if that's something that you're open uh emotionally to doing um and then the third thing i think the point that you made that i actually was what i think we usually answer people with is well your partner could fall in love with somebody at work they could fall in love with somebody the neighbor they could fall i mean if you if you were not going to do things because your partner might fall in love with somebody you wouldn't do anything your partner you'd lock your partner in a closet and not let him out of the house you know i mean that's typically what i say um like on social media when i'm and people ask that i said that that is not only non-monogamous people actually i was in a monogamous relationship and my partner did fall in love with someone that they met and it had nothing to do there was no swinging I never really even knew anything about swinging at the time so I think I would in my opinion I don't know the stats but I would think probably more monogamous people to fall in love with someone else than non-monogamy because in this space we have the freedom to have the conversations and explore those fantasies with the blessing of our partner.
And there's not as much hiding behind your back or sneaking around as you do in monogamy. Yeah. And Lauren can probably back us up on this, but the studies I've seen is non-monogamous people have lower divorce rates. They have higher rates of saying that they're happy with their relationship, happy with their sex life. So there are a lot of studies out there that show that non-monogamy actually would probably make you at less of a risk for something like that happening than somebody that was monogamous.
Yeah, unfortunately, I don't feel like there's a lot of stats out there to back us up just because it's very hard to do research on a group of people who never admit that they're doing this. That is getting better. But what I will say that I believe in what you're saying is that we talk about our relationships more. And so if we are not happy with an aspect of our relationship or in a relationship, we are talking about that all the time.
I think that is the difference between a monogamous and a non-monogamous relationship, is that I think people get broadsided more often in a monogamous relationship, because they're like, I thought we were happy, or I thought we were okay, or whatever. And the other partner is just not happy, looking for someone else, or in love with someone else.
And else and you know because they're not fulfilled in their primary relationship I would say we are talking about that almost all the time yeah and it's something we always you know when we talk to people that are talking about joining a lifestyle and it's like you have to be okay if you're going to do this to make it work you have to be okay with being brutally honest with your partner about everything or otherwise it's not going to work and I do think you know you hear time and time again people that join the lifestyle they're like I cannot believe the level of communication I have with my partner that I've never had before and that it seems to be something that comes up over and over and over again people talking about how good they've become at communicating with their partner and I think that's a crucial part of it um and that's really a crucial part if you're going to protect your primary relationship yeah and you know what else i think is interesting is um i think personally and you guys i'm i'm can back me up on this the more people we go out with the more people we interact with, the more grateful I am for my relationship.
Yeah. There's some truth to that for sure. Yeah. And I'm not saying that there's nobody else I like or connect with. I'm just saying that you're more privy to like more relationships and more people and more dynamics. And then you're like, wow, like we doing pretty well. And I don't know, there's something in meeting others that has you actually just appreciate your partner more. And I'm not 100% sure what that dynamic is. I mean, I guess we're in love with our partners, right? I would hope.
And so by being with others, that kind of highlights their things that you love about them, you know, because you see them in action more. You see them out at dinner parks. You see them flirting with other people. You see them being funny with other people. You see all these parts of them that you actually love, even if it's with somebody else.
It's like, oh, I love's kind of like going on vacation you love going on vacation you love staying in new hotel rooms and having fun but you're like always excited to come back home like you're ready to be at home in your home in your own bed it's kind of the same concept it's like it's fun to go hook up with other people and have these fun experiences but at the end of the night i just I just want to be with you. I just want to cuddle with you and go to bed. Yes. And you're also, you know, I think back, you know, I was married for 13 years and then got divorced.
And then I got kind of thrown back in the dating pool. I can remember being like, oh, my God, how am I ever going to find somebody that I match and I align with? Well, in the lifestyle, you're kind of like constantly in that dating pool. Like you're saying, you're interacting with people and you're like, you can kind of realize like, man, I am lucky that I have my partner and the grass isn't always greener on the other side and all these people aren't as maybe perfect as, you know, they seem online and things like that.
Also, if you're, if this is something that you're really worried about there are like boundaries and said that you can put in place to really protect yourself some couples only sleep with a couple like one time or a person one time because they're so afraid of that emotional connection where other couples really look for that yes some people like we communicate through group messaging so everything is out in the open in my opinion it's kind of hard to fall in love with someone via text message when my husband's reading it you know like i'm probably not going to be like oh i was dreaming about you all night long you know i'm just not gonna say those things in a group mess i mean that's just who are you dreaming nobody but i'm just saying i mean i might have to be honest with you but like i'm not gonna like just stuff like that i'm not gonna say nor do i want to but i think in like just having different boundaries can especially in the beginning until you learn that you can do this without having the emotions and that's why a lot of people start out with like a laundry list of rules and then slowly back away from them because it kind of takes a little while to like train your brain that you're okay.
Yeah. Well, and the other thing I was going to say about that is like, you know, I think rarely to never do we meet someone once and say, Oh, you know, love at first sight. I'm in love with this person. So even if that were to happen, you have to consider that because we are open and honest and transparent in our relationships, you are aware of their relationship the whole time. You are talking about getting closer to this person. Okay. So it's long before I'm in love with them. It's like, oh, I'm feeling like I'm getting really close to this person. What do we want to do about this?
And you're discussing this ideally all along the way. So it's not just one day this person, you know, oh, I'm actually in love with Ashley. Well, are you like you're not you're probably not going to be surprised by that in lifestyle, whereas you might. That would be more likely to happen that way in the monogamous world. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think we could do a whole podcast on falling in love with a lifestyle or how to approach that. Yeah, probably. You want to do another one? You want to move on from that one?
One more point, and I think it's probably worth talking about, though, is with that falling in love with somebody new there is and i've heard other i've heard this be talked about and maybe you've been one of the ones to talk about it that that whole idea of new relationship energy and about how when you first do connect with a couple maybe they do seem perfect or you know like you don't necessarily see all their flaws and you are excited because it's new and it's exciting um and so I've heard other swingers and other podcasters and I think we maybe have had some conversations over the time is like, you almost have to prepare yourself for that, that you're going to kind of feel that at first, like it's going to be super exciting and great and you might have feelings, um, but you just kind of have to mentally prepare yourself for that.
Yeah. I mean, in my world, I think NRE comes in a little bit more like later and a little bit more advanced like stage of the relationship, almost to say that you might be in love or close to being in love when you really have the chemicals.
Like NRE is like a documented chemical thing that's happening in your brain and so to get to that point i would say you're pretty like in love with that person it's a different in love than the in love you have with your partner like we've you know we've seen the worst of each other and we still love each other versus this nre which is like i love everything I see because I haven't seen all of you. So there is some like rational reasons around that, but also NRE is not rational. And that's probably the like most important thing to know and to remember for yourself.
Like if you do start to feel those feelings, like NRE is not really a rational state of mind. Yeah. No, I think that's important. Yeah. And again, this is an interesting subject. I think we could talk about it all day, but let's move on to another what if. So I think another one we hear a lot is what if we decided to do swinging and then my partner has sex with somebody else and they enjoy it more than they do sex with me? Well, likely that's not going to happen, but it could, it could happen. Yeah. So what, is that always a bad thing? That's the question, I guess.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I guess in this case, that would be a negative thing because that's how the person is wording the question, or at least that's how I get asked it quite often. Like, what if, I think that's a really interesting one and I think uh so we joked before we recorded that like our response might be, well, then you better up your game. And I say this, but that's kind of true. But here's the truth under it. If you did perceive and let's say your partner's like, yeah, I did like this thing. You can do that thing.
Like this is the great thing about having sexual experiences with other people is you might learn that you like something that you didn't know you liked before. And then that's an exploration for you and your partner as well. Or if you're not into it, like I'm going to use the example of deep throating, I'm just not really into deep throating. And so when there is a woman who can deep throat, I'm like, hell yeah, because he can have that experience. And I don't have to learn that because it's not really top of my priority list. So there are actually a lot of- I do that with anal.
There's a bunch of things I do that with, like swallowing cum. I'm like, go for it, babe. This is all you. Yeah.
And so I think that's the flip side of all these what-ifs Because in our what-ifs, what we're doing is we're going to do a lot of what-ifs is a game of positive what ifs what if i watch you having sex with someone and i love it instead of what if i don't like it what if because there is always another side to that fear and we just we just don't talk about those well that can be the fun side and the flip side of these same conversations that's true another thing when we get that we get asked that question a lot is I don't think it's fair to compare sex in a swingers club with a new couple with Wednesday afternoon sex after you get done putting the kids to bed and doing dishes and, you know, I mean, it's not the same, you know, and I've, I've told this to people before, it's kind of like comparing playing catch in your backyard to like playing in the Superbowl.
Those are the same things. Um, and so if you go to a swingers club and have an orgy with 10 people and you walk away from that and say like, Oh my God, I love that way better than my Wednesday night sex with my wife. Well, okay. Like that's what it's supposed to be. That's why you're doing it. It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be enjoyable.
If somebody comes in and rocks Lacey's world, uh, usually I high uh usually i high five her at the end and like oh baby you did so good did you like that was that fun for you uh because i want her to have a good experience honestly you know in this lifestyle what people don't realize is you have almost as many if not more bad experiences or or kind of misconnections as you do positive experiences um so when you do get with a couple and they do hit that home run, we often celebrate that and see that as a good thing. And we're like, well, let's do that again. Like save their number.
You know what I mean?
So I think like what you're saying, rephrasing that question and you know, we think of it, we're highlighting our jealousy, we're highlighting our insecurities and we're assuming that if she has sex with somebody else and she thinks it's better than our wednesday afternoon sex or wednesday night sex that that's a bad thing when in some ways it's a good thing and it's something to be celebrated yeah and then also underneath that question because i think we talked about this is probably coming someone fairly new or not having done it is to ask yourself what is your fear underneath that question.
So what that sounds like to me is I am already afraid that we're not having really great sex. And so one of the questions that I ask couples when they're considering getting into it is, do you feel like you're doing this to fix something? And, you know, oftentimes, you know, that can be a tricky question because we've talked about this before that, you know, take some honesty with yourself and, of course, some huge honesty with your partner.
And if you really think that your partner is not happy with the sex you're having, then that is the first conversation to have before you start having sex with other people. Yeah, that's so true.
And I think what like what you said there's there's more to that question than that meets the eye and i think it's really hard especially uh for somebody thinking about joining this lifestyle to really like drill down into the why why do i want to do this you know is it is it to explore and try new things is it because i'm trying to spice things up uh is it okay if I'm trying to spice things up or you know is that does that mean there's a problem if I want to spice things up does that mean there's a problem with my relationship now so I do think you're right that there's a lot more to that question than maybe meets the eye initially yeah I mean that's probably the the question about all fear-based or the question to ask about all fear-based questions is like real what's underneath that question.
well like to piggyback off of that though is the question now what if we don't want to have wednesday night sex because the super bowl is so great are we going to still want to have that because like it kind of all goes hand in hand and for us we we still like when we leave a swingers party swingers event we come off like with a high and want to have a lot like it actually boosts our sex tribe and like what we're doing at home is it different yes but it's still amazing in its own way orgies are great but so are 37 but so are just the two of you it's's all in how you look at it. Yeah.
And I think that comes with a fulfillment question too. It's like, what if we're fulfilling our sexual needs when we're with others? Okay. A, doubtful, like you're saying. B, well, what if? If you're both feeling sexually fulfilled, then does the number of times that you're having sex in a week is that your metric of success or is it you're just feeling sexually fulfilled and again hopefully you're talking about that because you're talking about everything and like um that is a question to have when you get into lifestyles, how often do we want to be doing this?
Because sometimes that can be a difference in partners. One person is like, oh, I want to do this every week. And the other one's like, oh, I was really thinking more like once a month. So that can also be one of the questions to ask underneath this. And I will say we've been both. So there are situations still where we do get ramped up and we'll go home and have more sex, just the two of us. And you guys can understand also sometimes these parties go very late and especially like I would say that hormone high happened more to us in the beginning than it does now.
And again, this is all related to how frequently you do it and how late you're staying out. Now I would say, you know, if we get home at three, four in the morning, we're going straight to bed. Now we might have sex the next morning or the next day or whatever, because there still is some of that energy left over.
But also like, again, are we just out here trying to have sex as many times as possible or are we just trying to have sexual fun and fulfillment yeah no it's it's all great all great questions and it's it's funny this this lifestyle is still elaborate because like while you were talking about that i was like yeah you know i'm thinking about we know couples where they'll go on dates with other people two or three times a week sometimes and they're having sex with other people and then they're coming home to their partner and then they're having sex and it's like we're like how do you even do all that like that's a lot like you know i mean yeah but everybody's different and i think you know to answer this question is you have to find the balance within your relationship like what's worked for you and your partner uh and and as long as you and your partner on the same page and it's working for you and your relationship i don't think anybody from the outside can say oh no you're not doing it right you're you're having sex too many times with other people and not enough with each other you know like as long as you and your partner are happy and you're on the same page i think that's the answer exactly okay i think now's the time perfect time to take a little break and hear from the partners and sponsors of the swing nation podcast and then when we get back we got some more what-if questions for lauren the swing nation podcast is proud to partner with shameless care yeah this this was an easy partnership right they reached out to us these are lifestyle people who are looking to help the lifestyle right they want?
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All right. So I think another question that a lot of people have is what if they start exploring this lifestyle and they run into somebody they know, right? So they go to a swingers club, they walk in the door and there's their neighbor, their co-worker, their boss. What the hell do they do if that happens? Yeah.
Well, gonna happen at some point i mean or you're gonna especially online yeah i've seen a bunch of people i know online but i also like live in the same city that i was raised so i just know a lot of people like now we don't have our profile set to our hometown to my hometown but before i always saw people i know yeah okay so when you when that happens what do you do like what i do nothing i just don't mess i mean like i just didn't like connect with them i just saw that was them and a lot of times they weren't like face pictures but if you know someone well enough you can figure it out that it was them i just went about my day i mean it didn didn't affect me I was like good for them they're getting it in they're having fun I mean but personally it didn't bother me that I saw them there and it wouldn't have bothered me if they knew I was there either because we're all doing the same thing so I was okay with it but I know not everybody and like also I know if you're a teacher or have some kind of like a you know some kind of job that like you cannot be outed i i get how that could be hard and i was in a different situation yeah what about you lauren have you ran into anybody you knew and what what do you do about that you know i have not very surprisingly okay okay i that back.
I take that back. I ran into one high school friend at Desire. And we've been in it for years, right? And this happened somewhat recently. We did not grow up in the area that we live. And yet we had this fear when we started as well. I think the, the fear stems from a couple of things. One, we, when you're first getting into it, you just don't know how long you're going to stay in it or if you're really doing it or like, you know, you're just exploring. So that feels very solid to run into someone, you know, and it's like, oh no, now we're known as swingers.
Like, I don't even know if we're swingers yet. So, but I think Lacey's point is the number one point, which is if you're running into someone, you know, you are both doing the same thing. And here's the thing for newbies to know. Probably the biggest value that this community holds is privacy and discretion. I cannot imagine running into someone that I know in this, in this world and then running and telling somebody else. I just, it's very difficult to imagine. So if that can squelch anybody's fear, just know that we're all in it together.
Yeah, there's kind of that whole mutual destruction thing, right? Like if somebody is going to out you for being at a swingers club, they basically have to out themselves for being at a swingers club. Yeah. Or else how else do they explain that you knew they were there? So there's kind of this, okay, if you tell on me, like you're telling on yourself and you're not going to tell on yourself, so who are you going to really tell? Exactly.
Now, I think more and more as we go into the future you know as we progress with this thing it does seem like there's more and more people that are are public and are okay with being public and so then maybe there's the risk that you run into somebody you know and then they're public so that they don't you know there's no mutual destruction at that point and so then they go around and tell people but what you're saying is it is a core um base of this lifestyle that it is kind of it's like fight club right that's what i was about to say we're about as public as you can get and i'm not gonna see someone that i know and go tell anybody i'm just i'm not it's just not my business to tell anybody that i saw someone there and i'm very public so i also think like probably nine out of ten couples at a swinger club are private it's not super common to me i mean maybe at like something that i don't know some some things do have more but most swinger things don't have very many people that are okay with telling people it's all pretty underground still in my opinion no i, I agree.
And then I guess the, really the only advice that we've given the people in the past when they have that fear is if you are really worried about running into people and you feel like if you did that, that it would be detrimental to you or in your, um, you know, you're standing in the community or whatnot, you can always travel. Right. So doing something like a bliss cruise once a year or going to somewhere like Hedo or Desire, although Lauren ran into her high school friend from Desire, that's highly unlikely. Yeah. Pretty unlikely. It's kind of amazing that you did that.
Now, if you do swing in your local area, you're probably more likely to meet locals.
But if you travel to a city that's outside of your local area or if you go to one of these different resorts or cruises and or uh and things like that you're probably less likely to run into people you know and have a little more um protection from that and online i mean kind of the same goes if it's set for your hometown and it it's a picture somewhere that yeah and well i mean like not even your face i mean someone knows you well enough they might recognize you so just be mindful of that and what's in the background what you're wearing and stuff like that so if you really do not want to be known you just have to take extra precaution to kind of protect that now i remember when i was in the military and i was private i would usually keep my profile somewhere in a different city like i keep it you know if i was getting ready to go to atlanta for my next next club meet or, you know, the next party, I would just leave my profile in Atlanta and not have it local to me.
So that it kind of lessened the likelihood of somebody that I knew somewhere across it. Yeah.
And also just the message to new people is not only do we value privacy as probably one of our highest values, but also I would say with comfort that most every couple has that fear when they're getting into it and that's one of the first ones to drop away because a you get to know the community you just understand that it's a value and b like you said we're outing each other and maybe eventually you don't even care yeah i agree okay so i think the next what if and this is one i think this is actually one that we got asked at naughty um during our during our seminar there is what if you meet a couple and one of you is super into them but the other one isn't so we meet a couple and i'm like dang that girl is super hot i want to fuck her she i'm all about it and i come to lacy and she's like i'm not feeling that at all that's gonna happen like every time you go somewhere i mean it just it's harder to make a four-way connection especially like if you're like a full swap same room couple that it's very rare to find like where everybody 100 percent has the exact same feelings all the way around um so you you need to really hone in on these skills these communication skills and work like how to like handle this i mean dan and i even our first swap that we did it was terrible the guy was not my not my favorite at all, but I didn't want to disappoint him.
I knew he was super into her, and they were kind of fun, and I was just sort of like, okay, let's, you know, like we didn't even have a conversation. It was more of like a look, like, you okay? I think in hindsight, if we would have stepped away and had a conversation, I probably could have been like, well, I mean, he's okay, but you know, so, so it's going to happen. You just got to, you got to work through it. Yeah. But don't do what I did. Okay. Um, what I want to say about that is what I really hear again as the question underneath is what if I disappoint my partner.
And this is probably one of the biggest lifestyle lessons to learn, which is put yourself first, get used to disappointing your partner and being disappointed sometimes because this is, you know, especially like I'll say in the swinger world, especially starting out, especially when you're doing everything together, this is going to happen a lot. And so if you are a people pleaser and you are continuously going, you know, going forward with things that you don't really want to, this is not going to be fun for you. this is not going to, um, enhance your relationship.
So you can do those things and you're going to miss some of the point of being in lifestyle. The other thing that I'll say about that is there's also, I always point to conscious choice. There might be times when you quote unquote, take one for the team, because I know couples always say, well, we're never going to take one for the team. Yeah, you might. And and that is a moment for you to consciously choose. You know what? I'm not that into this guy. But I would actually really like to watch my husband with this woman.
I'm consciously choosing to take one for the team right now and that is very different than feeling like you have to because you don't want to disappoint your partner and then how you feel about that afterwards is also very different because you you're consciously choosing versus kind of feeling like you have to yeah and i know you know on this whole taking one for the team, uh, subject, I think me and Lacey have kind of involved, uh, evolved with this a little bit because early on, I think we were, when we were going and we're meeting couples, we were looking for the connection with the kind of person like we would have a dating connection, right?
So like I'm attracted to this person. I feel like we have a lot in common.
I feel like, like, I feel like I could date this person person and then therefore this is somebody that i would like to have sex with that's really how we used to do it when early on in the lifestyle when we would connect with couples we were both kind of looking at the opposite sex the person we wanted to have sex with and thinking is this somebody i would be interested in dating and having sex with now that we're into this you know five six years later we've kind of reframed that is like i'm never going to date this person i'm not going to bring them home to my parents it's okay if they're not like the ideal partner in my mind i'm just here to have fun and and honestly having fun with somebody that might not be the person that i would date and fall in love with and marry that can be fun too you know i mean i've had a lot of fun with girls that i probably never would even talk to um if i was trying to date them and fall in love with them but man they had a good personality they were fun to hang out with um you know it turns out they were really good in bed you know i mean and so it's i think if you open your mind a little bit and stop thinking the conventional i'm trying to court this person and fall in love with them and realize like this is just somebody I'm trying to have fun with and as long as I can connect with them in a way to where we can have fun that's okay and I think you know like Lacey said truly making a four-way connection with another couple that's almost harder than finding a unicorn and we all know how hard that is if we've been in the lifestyle for more than a day so I think if you open your mind up a little bit about exactly what you're looking for in another couple, you can have a lot more success in the lifestyle.
I think that's a great point. And also it brings in something that I think we have talked about before. There are so many levels of connection that we are playing around with in non-monogamy.
Like we don't acknowledge all those levels of connection in monogamy and so this is where there's a lot of unlearning going on and also like a place that we're operating that monogamous people don't even know about this is a space where you can be friends with someone and have sex with them so yeah so all these levels of connection like you're talking about that's a great thing to talk partner about, too, because people will come to me and be like, well, I really need like some kind of connection with the other person. And I know that's weird. And I'm like, no, that's not weird.
Like everybody wants to have some kind of connection. Yeah. And I think it's just goes back to that same fear of like, how emotionally connected are we going to get to someone connection is just connection. It can happen at night. It can happen at the grocery store with the cashier. You kind of have an interaction with them and you can connect. Like connection is not the thing to be afraid of.
I think what we're as swingers who may not want to be falling in love with other people, we're talking about emotional bonding and, um, emotional, uh, commitment that we're not looking for, but connection like that can happen in a night. And I would say we're all actually looking for some level of connection. No, I agree. And I think, you know, we've met several people and they're like, Oh, we just can't connect with anybody.
And then you're like, Oh, what about this this couple and they're like oh well you know his he's got a crooked toe you know what i mean and then you're like oh well what about this couple and there's like oh i don't i don't like the way their hair is you know i mean it's like why well that's your that's your problem yeah like you're way too picky like you're way overthinking are they a good person do you laugh do you have fun like to me those are the things that are way more important than their cricket i don't know where that came from but you know what i'm saying right like they just find this off the wall thing that they don't that they you know and it's like oh well i don't like this about them and it's like well you're not trying to bring them home to your parents and they're not going to meet your kids and you're not you're not trying to fall in love with them yeah but damn if you think they're sexy and they gotta you know they're just don't look at his toe right yeah sure yeah and how many times does that happen where you're like i'm not physically that physically attracted to that person but then when you get to know them you're like but i'm very attracted to their personality or whatever and so there's just so much to me all the time there's so much more space and fun to have in this world of connection with that well and the opposite can happen too you can be like absolutely talking you're like fuck me absolutely i'm just like don't talk be quiet yes that was my first experience and i've written about this on my blog and stuff so you might have seen this, but my very first experience of saying no to someone was this super hot guy.
And it was a couple of situations, so it wasn't a group thing. And I actually went to the bathroom at one point and gave myself a pep talk. Like, okay, he's so hot. Like, you can do this. and then I got out there and he like said one more thing and I was like, no, I cannot. So, but it is like, it's such a, that's what's beautiful about humans is it's such a fun game of personality and looks and all the things that have us connect to some people and not others. I agree. I agree. Okay. All right.
So I think the last question that this gets talked about i don't know a lot at least from the male perspective we actually talked about it this weekend a little yeah um not to throw you under the bus or anything sorry babe throw me under the bus uh what if you get in a situation and you can't perform yeah what do you do then it's it's probably gonna happen yeah so i think as a guy that's been in the lifestyle for i don't know what we're doing seven years eight years somewhere like that um this is inevitable i think for everybody um and i think you know we i think we have whole podcast episodes on this but it's okay.
And I think the point that we always make time and time again is, um, there's a million other things you can do. Don't get, you know, your head wrapped around the, why is my dick not hard? Um, and then just try to enjoy the moment, um, for what it is and make the best of it.
Uh, and oftentimes if you can kind of get out of your head and stop thinking about whether or not you can perform, it'll just all of a sudden it'll be there um but it definitely is a real thing in the lifestyle um that most men deal with um there are various things you can do to to help yourself um different medications and things like that um but i don't think it's a reason to that anxiety around it isn't a reason to not participate no and i've said this a bunch of times if if that happens to a guy if he just kind of stops worrying about it a little bit and let's there's so many other things that we can do without penetration from his penis like i've had a lot of fun with guys who couldn't get hard just because we said fuck it and we just did everything else and i i had a blast because it was like kind of all about me.
And so like, for me, it was a great experience. And then, like you said, usually if you'd kind of ignore the problem, it, it'll kind of help itself. But as a female, um, part of that, I've been in situations where the guy's like kind of obsessed with trying to get his dick hard and he's, you know, he, that's all he's focusing on and it, it becomes uncomfortable for me. So I'm very much like it when guys just say, okay, well that's happening, let's move on. And so I think it, you have, if you have a good attitude about it, I think it's fine. It's going to happen. Yeah, it is going to happen.
And also here's the other things that I always like to point out in this conversation. Um, you know it's what if I can't perform, I guess has two sides to it. One is the judgment. I might feel, OK, let that go. You're not going to be judged for that because it does happen to everyone. On the other side, you're like, but then I don't get to have penetrative sex. True. And that might just be true for you that night. And then, so here's a couple other things I see is that, um, so overusing substance can be a very big reason that guys have that problem later in the night.
So just be mindful about that and take your own, um, you know, steps towards that. I also see like going out on dates and dinners and stuff, eating can also, and I've read this in a lot of things, eating and what you eat in a night can really make a big difference on your performance later on. So there are just like little things that you can be mindful of. And then my third thing I always say is especially younger guys, don't ever consider medication because they're like, I'm young. I should not need that. These are not usual situations that we're getting ourselves into. And so oftentimes.
And so the one thing I usually point out to people is that you don't have to take a full Viagra or a full Cialis. Just, you know, you can start experimenting, talk to your doctor about taking a half or a quarter or whatever. And that placebo effect might even calm your nerves, which we all know is probably the number one reason that people are having trouble in these situations. So yeah, I mean, not being afraid of other people's judgment and then just knowing that there are some steps you can take, including just don't drink too much and don't do too many substances.
And that can make a huge difference. Yeah. No, it goes back to you talk about that placebo effect. We actually went to an event last weekend and I forgot my medication at home. And I'll tell you, that was in my head the whole weekend.
Like I can't, you know know like i'm thinking i can't do this because i don't have i don't have my medication uh and we actually started to play with a couple and and i was in the back of my head i'm thinking that i didn't take my stuff taken uh like the dick shot so he was hard and ready to go and no problems there the same thing so and then and i did struggle a little bit and then i just kind of was like you know what i'm not going to worry about it and then you know five minutes later i was good to go and had a great time so i think it definitely you can get in your head about it yeah i think you're right like um you know that pill can kind of be a little bit of an insurance policy for for people and you know even there's people that where the pill don't work and they have to go to something like a shot or something like that.
But there's, there's a ton of stuff out there that can help you and, uh, definitely do your research. And if that's a problem that you're having, cause I get it. Like if you, if, you know, we've known men that could not even on pills and stuff still couldn't perform.
Um, and it, it really puts a damper on the lifestyle for them because you know, they're have this constant anxiety of whether or not they're going to going to perform or not now most of the friends that we've known that were like that have kind of found this trimex the the shot thing and that's really changed the lifestyle for them um but yeah don't be afraid to go and get the help you need and so that you can fully enjoy it and also if you do get in a situation where you can't perform you're still all these other things you can do and have a good time.
And I think it does, you know, we're talking a lot about male performance here. But we've been in situations where women that are, it just happens to be, they're on the bliss cruise and then all of a sudden they start their period. Or Lacey's had it a couple times where she's had too much sex and then couldn't have any more penetrative sex. You know what I mean? I think we've all met. But I still want to be a part of it. If you're on the Bliss Cruiser, you're at Hedo and it's day, you know, you're there for a week and you're at day five and you're just like, you know what?
I cannot have penetrative sex anymore. I need – but there's still other things you can do. And if you just say that, like, hey, listen, I can't do that anymore, but I'd love to play and, you know, I can do all these these other things. And most people are real, real receptive to that. You don't have to. And I think, you know, all of us could get in our head about that. Like, oh, Lacey's done. I guess we're just going to have to go out to dinner and then go back to the bed because we can't do anything.
You know, what you'll find with this lifestyle in this community is people are super open and people are super understanding. People that have been in the lifestyle have probably been there, done that, experienced that. So they know the emotions that you're going through and they completely understand. Um, you know, if you find a good experienced couple and you're new and you know, you're like, Oh, I don't want to do full this or full that. Like people will cater to you and try to make sure that you have the best experience you can have. And that's always been our experience with people.
As long as we talk to them and communicate with them, they really go out of the way to make to accommodate us. And I know they'll do that for the people listening. Same. And that's probably a great message to leave off on if we don't have any others, which is really like, I think a lot of these fears come from just not understanding the community. And I am going to emphasize the word community, because so many people before they're in it, they just don't know that this is a fun, positive, welcoming, and flexible community. There are not a lot of rules. We each have our own rules.
We all know that we, you know, have about our rules. It's just a different place than you've probably ever been before. You're talking about sexual experiences the first time you're meeting people. Just know that this is a different sort of place, and a lot of the judgments people worry about are not an issue. Yeah, I agree I agree. They're an issue for you. And as soon as you can get over them and pass them and communicate your concerns to the people around you or the other people in the community, you'll realize really quickly that it's all manageable. Yeah. Okay.
We got a little bit of time left. And I know you have a new project that you're working on. And it kind of is a little bit up our alley. We just, what, a couple months ago? No, like a month or so. We were interviewed by Rolling Stone magazine, and they wanted to know our thoughts about this whole mom talk, swinger, what's it called? The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Yeah. They wanted to know what us swingers had to think about that. So we had a good conversation with Rolling Stones about that. Thank you.
called the secret lives of mormon wives yeah um yeah they wanted to know what us swingers had to to think about that so we had a good conversation with rolling stones about that but you've actually um started a podcast series uh talking about this kind of cultural phenomenon i guess you call it this is a viral sensation that is that is mom talk yeah so a friend of mine he's poly and x lds x mormon so um we started this and sort of the first premise was you know because we hate it when our community is represented by people who know nothing about our community um which was the essence of your messaging as well in the magazine article.
So it's kind of funny because as it turns out, that angle was purely for marketing. I mean, so Taylor in the show did, you know, partake in some swinging activities.
I would still question whether she was ever part of the actual community, but you know, the show itself is not representing lifestyle so my friend and i we've taken a humorous take and we'll kind of pull in a lot of lifestyle themes into it which is fun but also he explains a lot of the mormon stuff too because that's another community that gets represented in that show that is, you know, more reality TV than it is probably reality. And so we just with humor go into a lot of those themes. So we follow the episodes, which are all out, you know, up through episode eight.
And then I think when that's over, because that show is really show is really not very lifestyle focused i think we're going to turn our focus to um just how we're represented in mainstream culture in general so like we should you know people well they're going to do a season two too so i think from what i heard right yeah but unless they're swinging it doesn't really i think that's what she's saying it's just. I mean, honestly, they casually mention it here or there, but there's very little to do with swinging at all. It's almost like a grab, like it brings people in.
Yeah, I think I watched the first two or three episodes and I couldn't take it anymore. I think Lacey watched the whole thing. Yeah, he quit. But you're right. So it seems like that something actually happened. From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, this was a friend group who sounds like got drunk or did whatever and experimented with each other a little bit, and then it blew up in their face. Is that the gist of it? Yeah, pretty much, yeah. And then somebody cheated.
And then it blew up on tiktok and then it became a whole thing and then they made this show and it's so funny that you you said this is in all the like commercials and stuff they say like the secret wives of mormon lives and you know swinging mormons or you know they put like swinging in the in a lot of the marketing and so when the show came out i'm like they're gonna they're just gonna spill the tea they're gonna get into the details of what happened they're gonna they're gonna sort all this out and i was kind of curious because you know we had kind of heard bits and pieces and you know she blew up on tiktok about you know similar times with lacy obviously she was way bigger than lacy than we were but you know we had kind of followed it and when it all happened a lot of people were jumping in our lives and our comments and asking what we thought and things like that so i was really curious to get like the true story behind what happened and i watched the first few episodes they don't tell you anything this has got nothing to do with that what actually happened they're just using that as clickbait to try to draw attention to the show at least so it seemed like it's frustrating i think as part of this community because it's clickbait in the sense that it's still so taboo that it's still so negative that it's still just that one word has so much contention around it that it can draw on an entire audience and at the same time that's like a positive thing that they can draw in such a big audience by leveraging the negativity of the swinging community and that is very frustrating it's very frustrating like the one girl called the other girl white trash it was like you're white trash with the swinging stuff i mean like it just shows what america yeah what our view is on swingers yeah yeah well i'm working my hardest to change that view but um it will take some time and in the meantime it's a fun podcast so um and a podcast is called the examined lives of the secret lives oh that's great yeah and is it on all podcast platforms yeah awesome okay no interesting yeah i do think there's something to the you know it's funny that the duality of everybody thinks this is bad but at the same time if you just put the word swinging in it it draws a huge audience so why is everybody if everybody thinks this is so terrible and such a bad thing why is everybody clicking to go see like what what is that what is that energy you know i mean like there's there's something there yeah and how can we leverage that energy into something more positive for us that's what i really yeah yeah i agree well if you figure that out let us know because we've been trying to do it for three years we've been moderately successful yeah all right well i think that's it you got anything else uh lauren tell everybody where to find you if they want to know more about your coaching and your your education around the lifestyle yeah so swinginglifestylecoach.com is my website you can sign up for my newsletter you can find out all the classes and coaching that i offer same name on instagram and facebook swinging lifestyle coach and then i also have a big group on sdc which is called swinging lifestyle coach but my profile name there is Swinging Coach.
Awesome. So definitely go, go follow, uh, Lauren. Uh, she's, she's the real educator. Yeah. We give you our practical advice. Yeah. Probably often wrong. She, she's got the education and all the facts and studies and information to, to back it all up. So definitely go check her out. And I think that's it. Yep. I think you're our first repeat customer other than Dr. Storr. Customer. Interview. Yeah. Well, I am fully honored. Maybe, yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. So we'll have to keep this going. Yeah. I like it. I agree. All right. I think with that, in a world full of apples. Be the pineapple.
Be the pineapple, guys. Bye. Bye. If you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us, leave a five-star review wherever you're listening. If you want to see more of our content, you can find links to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, OnlyFans, and more in the show notes. Come join the conversation with us and other Swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server. If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingnation at gmail.com. Make sure you head on over to theswingnation.net and keep up to date on all things Swing Nation.
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