Send us Fan MailLifestyle Education | Anal Pleasure for All: Expert Tips from Dr. Goldstein | Episode 150Welcome to another captivating episode of The Swing Nation Podcast, the top-rated lifestyle podcast about non-monogamy and swinging! In this episode, your hosts Dan and Lacy sit down with Dr. Goldstein, a nationally renowned anal surgeon and author of Butt Seriously: The Definitive Guide to Anal Health, Pleasure, and Everything In-Between. Join us as we delve into the stigmas and misconceptions surrounding anal sex. Dr. Goldstein brings his expertise to the table, shedding light on the often misunderstood topic and offering valuable insights into making anal sex a pleasurable experience for any gender. From debunking myths to providing practical steps for enhancing pleasure, this episode is packed with essential information for anyone curious about or interested in exploring anal sex.Tune in to learn how to approach anal play with confidence, ensure safety, and maximize enjoyment. Whether you re a seasoned explorer or a curious newcomer, this conversation with Dr. Goldstein will equip you with the knowledge and tips you need to make your experiences both satisfying and safe.Don t miss out on this enlightening discussion—hit play now and empower yourself with expert advice on anal health and pleasure!Learn More with Dr. Goldstein: https://bespokesurgical.com/- The Swing Nation - Main Website Quick Navigation Website: -- (Find all our social media links more!) Follow us on Facebook! The Podcast Website- Swinger Society - Our Website to meet, connect events Swinger Society Discord Our Facebook Group- Swinger Websites -Kasadie 90 day free trialUsername: TheSwingNation SDC 14 day free trial Username: TheSwingNation** Use code 36313 for 14 days free! ** SLSUsername: NorthernGuynSouthernGirl- Merch More -Order Your Merch Here!- Lacy’s Fun Links - VIP OnlyFans PREMIUM OnlyFans-- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS --Wisp : Making sexual healthcare inclusive, cost-effective, and accessible—for everyoneUse Code SWING at checkout for 15% off your oder! Shameless Care: ED Medication and at home STD testingUse Code TSN at checkout for $30 off your order!Promescent® Make Love Longer, It’s Time for Great SexSupport the show- Thank you for the support! -
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This podcast is intended for adult audiences. Over the age of 18, it contains adult language and situations. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to us, and not of any employer, organization, committee, or other group or individuals. This podcast is not intended to be taken as professional advice. Welcome to the Swing Nation podcast, a podcast by swingers for swingers, where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions associated with our lifestyle. Come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe.
Interview the experts, learn and grow together join the nation so lacy people are asking how do they get to go to a party or an event with us they check out swingers society.net you create profile, you sign up for an event, and you come hang out with us. Super easy. That's right. If you want to party with us and the other faces and names that you know from social media and TikTok, head on over to swingersociety.net. Can't wait to see you there. Sexual health care can be so much more than STI testing.
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Check out the link in our show notes or go to HelloWISiz.com and use code SWING for 15% off. Most people have unprotected oral sex, right? Be honest. Now think about your last STD test. Did your doctor tickle your throat with something that looked like a giant Q-tip? Probably not.
Yet that's the only way to check for oral gonorrhea or chlamydia which are often asymptomatic you need a better doctor you need shamelesscare.com use coupon code tsn at checkout hey there pineapple people and welcome to the swing nation podcast we are your hosts northern guy and southern girl and on today's episode we're going to talk a little bit about some butt stuff yeah um and it's not really we're not really the experts on on butt stuff we're not but lucky for our listeners we have an expert with us we have uh. Evan Goldstein, who literally wrote the book on it. Yeah.
So we appreciate you joining us, Doctor. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be a part of the Swing Nation podcast. So to start, why don't you tell us a little bit about how how did you come to be the butt doctor like how what's that story yeah how much time do we have we have an hour but it's fine but uh literally um i was actually training to be a heart surgeon and i went through all of this work to get to that space but i was closeted at the time it's a very very bro environment I don to do. And then during this time, I met my partner. We currently are together for 18 years.
We have two kids together, but I started to analyze what I was doing in heart surgery and I was miserable. I just hated it. And I said to myself, what can I do within my community, my new community? That's a give back. And I started to look at specifically anal sex and anal engagement to say, people have problems, people have issues, people don't know the right ways to engage. Where do these people go for that type of care? And then I realized that nobody was delivering that care. And so it burst my first project, which was Bespoke Surgical, which we have an office in New York.
And it's all about providing access to the right care. No stigma, no taboo, no judgment. How do you like to engage? How do you like to enjoy sexual desire and pleasure? And then how do we make sure that you have a safe space and that you have a place to go if you can't or there's issues or you run into problems where there's limitations with your sex world? Yeah. And so just just to be completely clear, you kind of mentioned community and being out and like that. But but you're you're a gay man, right? That's that's how you identify. Totally. Yeah. So I identify as a gay male.
But my community, I tell to everybody is anyone that has an asshole is free to come literally. Uh, but with that said, obviously because I'm gay and out, many people feel much more comfortable specifically in the space to see me, right?
You know, it's tough to talk about your ass, talk about issues, talk about your sex in general, let alone let alone gay sex let alone anal sex so I think that and then what we're seeing though is that everybody has an ass and so many people want to enjoy you know it's not only a gay thing and how do we now provide for all assholes regardless of how you identify yeah no that's correct because in what so what I guess what time was it what year was it when you were kind of transitioning from this possibly looking at heart surgery to to now become yeah about 2006 yeah so 2006 I came out I was still training at the time that went into heart surgery by 2008 bespoke surgical was birthed and we were you know and again you know you get trained but nobody knows the right ways from a sexual perspective this is not how you're trained in surgery how does it heal from sexual issues what do you do to navigate sexual issues and we'll we'll go through that you know through this podcast but at the end of the day you had to learn you had to see what the communities were coming in with what are the issues that people are doing or seeing and then you start to kind of come up with the protocols that people can mitigate that and just enjoy sex without the problems yeah i find it interesting you know because i'm trying to think back like what um how you know kind of in 2006 what was the social norm back then it's kind of hard for me to really think about that i guess it was right after i graduated high school so i don't i don't was the game community super like did you have pushback for this when you you know when you're like totally yeah pushback how was it like what did you how did you manage that because i think about that i think about like us right we're coming out with this podcast we're talking about swinging and non-monogamy and we've kind of taken a tick tock and started talking about this and we're probably some of the first ones to really be this open about you know being swingers and and kind of this forefront in in social media and talking about it and it's crazy the amount of you know crazy comments we get and death threats and only i can only imagine you as a medical doctor now forming this practice that kind of supports not like you said not just the gay community but you know right a big portion of the gay community what what was that atmosphere like i guess yeah you know i mean you know the nice thing is that i'm insular in new york city right new york city is the place where anyone can come and be safe and feel comfortable, right?
So with that being said, but, you know, early on in my career, I realized that doctors don't talk about sex, patients don't feel comfortable talking about sex. And so I started to say, well, if the doctors aren't asking the right questions, I'm never going to see a referral from a physician. So similar to what you guys did Thank you. well, if the doctors aren't asking the right questions, I'm never going to see a referral from a physician. So similar to what you guys did was I said, okay, let me hire a publicist. Let me start talking about it. Let's blog about it. Let's write.
I remember very early on in my career, one of my dear friends was like, Evan, just start writing about it. Instagram, social, blogging, talk about the issues. So I hired, you know, a whole team and we started to work at it. And then it slowly went from our medium and blog posts to many more popular press pieces to talk about it, specifically female centered publications. You know, females love to navigate and talk about sex. They ask more questions. They are able to they want to learn more.
And so a lot of like Cosmo and Vogue and a lot of the women centered publications slowly started to say, wait a second, people do want to engage in these acts.
How do we take the initiative to be super, super supportive of this and also credible as it relates to it so you could see that movement but yeah i mean i always get hate i mean it is what it is part of the game you know at this current point it's like you know when you start to see the lives that we change and or augment and allow people to get to their desired sexual state it makes it you know so worthwhile everything that we're dealing with but i look to this like your podcast and so many popular presses to talk about it because that is what is the movement right which is navigating and hitting people's streams and people feeling comfortable listening and talking about it and now the younger generation It, they're so fluid with everything that it becomes kind of a moot point, which is so cool.
Yeah, no, I agree. And that's so much of what you just said is so relatable to us, which is interesting. And, and that's actually, you know, kind of to your point, how people want to engage. I think that's why it's so important that we kind of have you on. Cause let me just lay out like the, the state that I see the swinger community or the non-monogamous community today. Right. So the atypical swinger couple is a male that probably identifies as heterosexual, but probably has more curiosity than you would think. Right. Or they're willing to admit, right.
They're willing to admit that's probably a good way of putting it. And then the female who is most females in this space are openly, I don't know.
than you would think right or they're willing to admit right they're willing to admit that's probably a good way of putting it and then the female who is most females in this space are openly bisexual yeah and that's that's the norm for what for whatever reason i guess because it's just more um socially acceptable or whatever but i would say as far as anal sex comes i think like i would love to have more anal sex with lacy she's not super into into it. I've heard all these things about how amazing, you know, prostate orgasms and all that can be for a male.
But again, I've explored it very little and probably a lot because of the stigma. And the second thing is I don't, the couple times I've tried it, it just felt weird and awkward. So I just was like, eh, I don't think that's for me.
So I think bringing somebody like you on and saying, hey saying hey this is kind of some of the things you should know this is some of the ways you should go about it and the good thing about swingers is they're very sexually open they like exploring they like trying new things you know they're kind of they're the one community that we've experienced that they're they're not worried about the stigmas they're like oh yeah you want to put two penises in a vagina that sounds hot let's do it you know I mean like there's they're so open to exploring and trying new things that I think people would be open to this I just don't think like you're saying there's a lot of information out there and people just don't know so uh I'm glad you're here so I guess what would you say say to that what's the yeah I think that's point I think a couple of things one is you know in the book, which we just launched called But Seriously, it goes over first all of the stigmas and taboos.
And again, in the hetero space, it's always, am I gay if I'm taking it up the ass? Right. And that is always this thing. And I try to kind of talk about pleasure instead of specific kind of parts or holes or orifices, right? Which is like, how do you look at sexual pleasure completely right whether it's one person two person whether it's more and multiple and then whether it's multiple orifices or not now when you think of from an anal perspective there are so many positive nerve. It doesn't only need to be penetration, right?
Just even anally from licking and rubbing and playing all the fun stuff that we do, the anal cavity has really positive effects. And when you look at whether it's the P spot, which is where the prostate is in male born, or the A spot or the A zone, which is the anal component in females, you start to see that there are also tremendous amount of positive nerve endings inside. Now, a true prosthetic orgasm, you can't have unless you're being somewhat stimulated. It could be externally through vibrations or the typical or finger play or full penetration.
But what happens is, is that the prostate that sits there, it sits about five to seven centimeters inside towards the front of the ass, which is more towards the penis and the testicle area. And it's basically a walnut. And that walnut starts to swell and fill with fluid during sex, any sex, even thinking. Sometimes when you have pre-cum, excuse me, that's where that is coming from. Now, when you are stimulating that directly through finger massage, external vibrations, or full penetration, that gland is stimulated directly and it starts to swell in a really good way.
So that many people, if you put the myths and the taboos away and you start to understand the anal anatomy, and we'll talk about that, that stimulation in that space enhances your orgasm tremendously. You shoot further, you're able to shoot even more, you're able to become much more convulsive in that space. But there is a lot of mental game in that, whether it's internalized components, right? How we were brought up, what anal shaming is all about, what it relates to you, your partner, your partners. It's not, you know, oh yeah, let's just take it up the ass, right?
This is, and I tell people, I'm like 60% functional work, meaning how do we understand what anatomy you have so that you're able to engage the way that you want to? That's 60%.
And then 40% is the mental side, which is how do I prove to you that it feels good, that your orgasms are better, or that you're satisfying your partners more from X, Y, and Z, and that you're doing everything correctly, but then how do I allow you to now actually receive and feel comfortable doing that does that make sense yeah no and that i guess that's you know you kind of described it as describing the anatomy first and then kind of overcoming the mental but to me it really seems like we need to get people to overcome the mental first so then they can explore their anatomy try it yeah yeah exactly and that's why even in the book like the first couple of chapters is all about like my story all about many other clients stories of the same issue straight gay uh post-pregnancy women things that would allow all the audiences to say oh okay it's for everybody and then it's like all All right,'s look at my own myths like if i put a finger up my ass and i'm a hetero guy am i a homosexual where am i on that spectrum how do i look at is anal sex dirty am i gonna shit on my partner right all of these things am i gonna be too loose as I start to engage anally?
All those things that people think, which are total myths, total taboo, but then it starts to say, okay, now that we've worked through a lot of the questions you need to ask yourself and your partners, especially in the swing world, I love the swing world. Why? It's the same as the fisting community. Everyone talks to each other. You communicate on wants.
You're able to look at your desires and for the most part be able to just throw it out there it may not be received where everybody's like hey i want to do x y and z but you're much more communicative i don't see a lot of swinging partners to fisting partners to people that are in communicative, really great, amazing communities. A lot of them don't have issues because of all of the lead in. Right. And that's why this is so cool to talk about these issues, because the key component with anyone that's saying, hey, I do want to get into anal is understanding anal anatomy, right?
And that is, and it's not overtly very complicated. It's skin and it's muscle. There are three sets of muscles in everybody's ass. There's two that you can control. If I say to you, clench your ass right now, so whoever's listening, squeeze your hole, you're squeezing the first two. The third one is the one that is a little bit further in, and that's the one that you and I don't have control over. That's the one where many people are like, okay, I'm going to have anal sex tonight, and they're trying to relax.
They're like, oh, mentally I'm relaxed, but the penis can't go in and you're like fuck what is this issue well that third muscle is called the internal sphincter that's the muscle that doesn't listen it doesn't fully relax so you have three sets of muscles and then you have the skin now the skin is thin in everybody but specifically in women or even in the trans community, male to female, when they're taking estrogens, spironolactones, all these hormones, the skin looks beautiful, but it becomes really thin.
So now you have, specifically in the trans community, you have a male pelvis with lots of muscle, and now really, really fragile skin. So now you can start to see when I as an anal surgeon or someone in the sex space looks at someone's anatomy, I'm saying, okay, what type of muscles do they have? How thick are those muscles?
Do the muscles actually learn to relax and open up on their own what about the skin is the skin too thin can the skin expand and all of those things are then mirrored with okay like if i'm coming into someone's ass and they're literally squeezing their hole because they're nervous about the situation what is the mental and the neurological component of that?
So I say it's simple, but clearly there's lots of nuances that we talk a lot about in the book, especially for people that can't come and see me, which is to say, well, which type of ass do I have to know the right ways to start engaging in anal?
Yeah, that's interesting i never i guess i didn't realize the different anatomy between the sexes and how yeah it could affect you know who you're engaging with yeah and and the reality is is that it's not only that it's like women's pelvises are bigger and their muscles are not as developed because of pregnancy the The thought of, hey, I need to push a baby out of a small opening, your muscles in the pelvic floor are actually able to relax. So many women don't come to me with tight anuses that I have to do anal Botox or relaxation techniques because they're able to actually relax the muscle.
They come to me either post-pregnancy with issues or their skin is so thin that the guy says, hey, I want to have anal tonight. And the girl's like, okay, I just stick it in. And everybody thinks you can go from nothing to dick. And then it tears the skin and you get what's called an anal fissure, which is painful and is non-pleasurable. And then you're like, I never want you in my ass ever again.
And it just creates this cycle versus understanding the anatomy and then understanding what can you do to get you to the point that sex is capable there, no issues, no bleeding, pain, discomfort, all the things that people think are potential normals for anal. Yeah. Okay. So let's, let's back up a one step real quick.
So I guess my question is, so if we're talking about swingers who are potentially interested in anal, you know, you're going to have males, females, and then maybe some transgender, but for the males that are saying kind of what we've talked about a little bit here, like, oh yeah, I've heard all these great things about anal sex, but I'm not gay. I guess, what do you say to them when you hear that? Yeah. I mean, I think, look, the question is whether you're a giver or a receiver, right? And so there's two components to this.
I think what's really cool about in the book is we talk about top's perspective. So the topping, the person that's giving.
We also talk about like understanding your partner's anatomy, because if you are a good top, meaning you know how to lubricate, you know how to get the anal openings to relax, you able to do the right things you can just set the stage for that much better sex so one the book is for people that just want to learn how do you enjoy anal specifically from a topping perspective now if you want to receive i think at the end of the day you just have to start slow with what you're comfortable with.
If it's not full penetration, like, okay, maybe it's just external stimulation, whether it's licking, rubbing, playing, whatever that is, so that you could see if you enjoy and how much that enhances your world. Now, again, I think one of the things is anybody that has an ass, there are three types of asses in the world. We've done studies of bespoke to show that there's a third of people, male, female, whatever, a third of people will be able to, on their own, be able to relax the muscles and open the skin from the get-go. That's a third. Two-thirds of people can't do that.
Of the two-thirds, half of them, if they learn the right technique, and I'll talk to you about using toys and dilating and doing self-exploration, can do it on their own. The other half needs some type of intervention, whether it's anal Botox, whether it's physical therapy, whether it's surgery. So the key is, well, which type of bottom are you? Now, I talk about it, even in the swinging world, like if you're thinking about anal or in your mind, you're like, hey, I would like to explore this.
you need to do self exploration all on your own one is it'll allow you to understand does it feel good what is my anatomy how do I navigate this because when you start bringing in others it starts to make it much more complicated because a lot of people don't know the right ways to engage anally or give anally. And we want to set the stage for that success. So we talk about using toys. I started a company called Future Method.
Future Method is all about the science of sex, bridging what I learned at bespoke surgical and putting it into products from douches to appropriate pre and probiotics and fiber to specific toys that are specific to what we're talking about right now. So if someone came to me like, oh, I'm thinking about anal. I don't know much about it. I don't even know if I'll like it. What are the things that I can do? It's starting with an anal dilating kit. And I like a glass kit and there's certain ergonomics because of that.
But what it does is it starts to stimulate the skin and it starts to work those three muscles. So you're able to start seeing, Hey, is this pleasurable? Can I learn to relax? And then how do I stimulate the prostate or that A-zone? And it's a small, it goes from small, medium, and large. And it's not a, hey, I got to wear this and do this for hours. It's like going to the gym. Give me two sets of 12. Just like you would work your biceps one day, you do your triceps the next day to stretch your biceps. Nobody ever stretches their whole. Nobody ever does.
And so when you look at like hemorrhoids and people sitting on there and doing Instagram and Facebook, all of that stuff creates so much more stress on the anal cavity. So even using toys for those people, forget sex, is so beneficial. Then you'll start to see that, oh, wait a second, I'm harder. I get better erections. So much more from an ejaculation perspective and the positives of that. And listen we talk a lot about maybe I am too tight. Is sex painful? Should I bleed? And the answer is no, it shouldn't be painful.
In the beginning, you'll have a little bit of discomfort, but if you're starting to use the protocol correctly, you'll start to see that after two weeks of doing the small, you'll be able to go from small into medium and slowly. And what it's doing is it's working the muscles. How do we get all the muscles to relax correctly, but also how do we get the skin more elastic and how do we get it strong? The pressures of sex are that much greater of the pressures of shitting. So we need the skin, the muscles and the anatomy to actually be able to take that. And it's just progress.
Two weeks, small, two weeks, small into medium, two weeks, small, medium into large, or what's called a cone. And we talk a lot about that. And then it's like, hey, I feel great. I'm getting off. How do I start bringing it into my partnerships in the right way so that in the beginning, maybe it's your primary partner that you work with to kind of communicate and navigate. And then you slowly start bringing it into the swing space.
This is something that has to be kind of self-exploration, primary partnership into the swing world when you feel comfortable and then finding even in the swing world people that are at the same levels of where you are we we go into the um sex positions in the book and we label them as different peaches one peach two peach three peach for more advanced and it's the same combination of like what positions are good to start with with anal what are not what are good to advance what are the things so you start to become your own best kind of advocate for this type of play and you may go through all of this and you may say it's not for me but i would tell you that the majority of people getting rid of the stigma getting rid of the taboo working with people doing all the right things navigate this to make it a part of their sex space because it is that much more powerful yeah okay and then this you said this glass kit is is it like like butt plugs is that what you're talking about yeah but there's a difference between butt plugs and anal dilators.
So a butt plug, a lot of people will leave in as a stimulant. But the problem is that the butt plugs have a neck at the bottom of it, and those necks are really where the muscle is. But it's not stretching the muscle. It's not actually doing anything to open the rubber band that is restricting someone from anal. So butt plugs, I get why people like them and they're fun and they can be stimulating and all this stuff, but it's really, that's actually a little bit more advanced because they're not actually doing anything that we want to achieve in terms of that.
It can actually cause more harm because what someone does is they put the butt plug in when they're not ready for it and then it swells they leave it in for too long they try to get the fucking thing out it's swollen it's irritated it tears it causes a lot of issues so you just have to be super careful so the dilators that we have small medium and large they don't have a neck they're basically the size of like what would be a normal shaft for a penis small medium and large but what it's doing is it's opening the mechanism and it's leaving it open it's not opening and closing and opening it's leaving it open so that now the muscles can actually elaborate into the space Now Now think about like I tell people think of like two components here.
Let's say we get a big rubber band in a mailer like a restoration hardware catalog or a big catalog and you take the rubber band off. That rubber band is hard to open again but if every day you and I stretch that rubber band a little bit, what happens? Over time, it starts to get more elastic. That's where anal Botox comes in. Many people, especially us guys, like super tight anally. And everyone does squats. You do all this work and they look beautiful. But yet your muscles there are so developed that they're very restrictive. So some people just from the toys can get the muscles to relax.
Others need anal Botox. And what does Botox do? It decreases the pressure. It goes from too tight into a normal range. Now, when you're using the toys, you feel pleasure. You're able to stretch that rubber band more instead of it being like fuck no one's coming in my ass stay away from me that type of component okay all right i think now is the perfect time take a little break and hear from the partners and sponsors of the swing nation podcast then when we get back we're going to continue with dr goldstein and kind of his advice on couples looking to do more animals. Yeah. All right.
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All right, guys. Welcome back. Welcome back. We appreciate you listening to our sponsors. Lacey loves all of our sponsors. Mm-hmm. Yeah, all of them.
them okay so when we left you on the front side of the break you had just said okay if you're gonna if you're interested in anal the first thing to do is kind of get these you called them what you call them anal trainers anal yeah like an anal dilating kit anal dilating kits and that's for females and males correct correct okay are they the exact same like kit like there's no same kit yep small medium and large is a glass kit there's other companies that kind of similar components ours were specifically designed just because i felt like everyone else didn't really understand the muscle and skin component but yeah you're right i mean i think the key is first so we're getting to a space they're just like a you said they kind of look like a chef so they're like a kind of a dildo looking thing that you yeah you you masturbate with them like what do you you put them in and leave them there for a while or like what's the yeah smart yeah i think the key is it really depends i think in the beginning it needs to be a little bit more medical than sexual um and we go through that in the book of like the protocol.
It's like, okay, let's say tonight I'm going to start. I've never had anal sex before. I want to. Okay. By myself, I'm going to turn the shower on in the bathroom. I'm going to take the small toy. I'm going, it's a glass and it literally is kind of like cone shaped at the top, but then cylindrical at the bottom, and that is all one graded size. It stays stable. Now, I literally take the toy, and I lubricate it, and I go in with the toy until I hit the first muscle, and you'll feel resistance. I don't want pain. I don't want pressure. I don't want bleeding. All I want is to hit it.
I hold it there. I relax. Three, two, one. I take it out. I re-lubricate the toy. And I like silicone-based lube, especially for anal, but you could do water-based. You could do hybrids, whatever suits your fancy. But each time you'll see that you'll go into the first muscle, then maybe you'll start to hit the second muscle. Hold it there. What we're trying to do is we're trying to teach the muscles that if something engages, we want it to relax.
So you'll see that by six to eight times, you should be able to go past one muscle, two muscle, and three muscle to where you finally feel like the entire toy can go in. Once the entire toy is in, I don't want you coming out because the second you come out, your muscle clenches back down. We want it to be left in, but what I want it to be doing is for it to be in motion, meaning I'm coming in and out with the toy for three to four centimeter swings so that we're moving. We're always constantly moving, but the skin and the muscle is feeling the friction is now open.
And literally, yeah, if you're horny, you want to get off, you're hard, you want to masturbate, whatever you totally can. But the key for me in the beginning is give me two sets of 10. That's it. Two sets of 12. You may be like, oh, I want more. I want more. No, we need to get the skin tougher. We need to get the muscles to learn to respond. It's no different than like if someone says, hey, I'm hunched over and you arch your back. How do you isolate the muscles and learn to control the situation?
that takes time so most people will do that protocol two to three times a week for two weeks you may say oh I can take bigger I can take bigger than that don't we're teasing everything to learn it's a process then after two weeks if you're like I've taken the small I not bleeding. I feel comfortable. I'm ready to advance. You start with the small toy. Always. It pre-lubricates, it pre-dilates, and then you start working the next two weeks into the medium-sized toy. Same concept, always doing the same motions. It becomes a little bit medical, right? In the beginning.
But what you're doing is you're trying to kind of understand your anatomy. Are you just flying through this where you are someone that's blessed anally, that you're able to receive and feel comfortable? Or are there hiccups? What are those hiccups? Bleeding, pain, restriction, not advancing further. And then in the book, we talk a lot about, well, what can you do over the counter stuff, suppositories, lotions, taking some time off? Or is there something innately an issue that I need to evaluate or someone like me to say, hey, anal sex is important for what you want.
This is why you're having these issues. And what do we need to do to rectify it? But by six weeks of toys, you should feel comfortable and ready and then able to say, okay, tonight's the night. I want to actually start to engage with my partner. And how do we set the stage for success with that? And I tell people the first top of kind of partner roles is more of the partner is literally laying there, either erect or strap on or whatever it is. And you are basically using their dick, their toy, their whatever as a dilator.
And then slowly you start to kind of get into different positions, that one three peach where you start to learn how to navigate that successfully so it's it's a process and it is some work but i think that you'll start to see when you start the simple small of how much stimulation happens to the orgasms where you're like wow this is this is why people talk about anal this is why people are interested in anal and how do we bring it into your world yeah and then another reluctance i think you talked about it a little bit is the whole there's poop down there thing and people get freaked out by that so what i guess what is what would you say if people are like i don't know there's poop down there i'm just kind of scared to go down that road what's the end of that yeah so i think there's a couple of things to think about first off just as a disclaimer remember if we're having kind of vaginal sex and anal sex you don't go from the anus into the vagina right bacteria all that stuff so always start vaginal if you're going to do that and then anal after that not back in in that capacity unless it's clean new condom if you're using it whatever that is but but from that perspective i think a couple of things if you're shitting correctly high fiber diet pooping regularly shit does not sit where we're having anal sex so let's just talk about we talk a lot about just normal hygiene and good food and normal processes in the book of how do you shit correctly and do the right thing but the reality is is that poop is up higher in what's called the sigmoid colon now let's say we're laying down we're getting up in in the morning to go to work, we need to shed.
Well, when you stand up, the second, the reason why people poop in the morning is when you stand up, the pelvic angle changes from laying down. So what happens? That stool that's up higher starts to move. So when you're brushing your teeth and you're getting ready for work, you feel the urge to go to the bathroom because that stool moves down to that third muscle and hits that muscle. And then the muscle reflexively tells the body, relax, I need to go poop. Now, if you're using good fiber, pre and probiotics, you should be. And look at your dog.
Most people, their dog shit without having to wipe. How is that possible? It's their diet. It's their nature in terms. How do we get to shit like a dog? Because if you do that, you will not have dirty anal sex. Now, I tell you, and you look at me, and you're like, there's no way. I'm like, if you and I went out there and we said, all right, we're going to have anal sex with 10 random people. They're not going to douche. They're not going to clean out.
Eight out of 10 will be clean, irregardless of what we think our preconceived notion now prove it to yourself when you're doing the toys don't douche don't clean find yourself that you are eight times out of ten clean just from doing the toy work now we're not talking about fisting we're not talking about deep huge penis or big toys that's that's different we're talking about run-of-the-mill anal sex so prove to yourself that now if i have a no offense to chipotle but if i have chipotle i can't take it up the ass and why well it just fucks with my system.
So you have to start learning to be like, okay, what am I eating? What's my diet? If I was dirty, work backwards to try to figure out what can you potentially do to do that. Now, people douche a lot, which is cleaning inside. And they use water, or use enemas or they even use a hose. And we know the shower hoses and those adapters, they cause a lot of trauma.
And we know that people over douche, they're using solutions that are not appropriate, and they are causing more issues in that space, higher risk of STDs, higher risk of infection, higher risk of trauma, even before they have sex, just from actually douching. So this goes to your issue, which is to say, how do we take a step back and understand our anatomy, understand the way we shit, understand our food intake fiber diet, and then start using the toys to kind of navigate to prove to yourself that you're actually much cleaner than you think.
Because at the end of the day, if you are douching and you're going to sex, how do you douche less, if at all? And I own a douche company and I don't want you to douche. I want you to use other ways to get so sex is clean and comforting and amazing. But this is part of the process of understanding that people are going to douche. People do have the phobias of shitting on somebody. How do we talk about it? How do you navigate it and get it as minimal as possible? Yeah.
Now, so, you know all right so you got to get your get your toy set so you can practice for for a few weeks um you know make sure you're eating healthy and you're following the right diet so that you're not it's not messy um i think this is probably the reason why a lot of people are like i'm not going down this road like that there. There's, there's a lot going on there, right? If I have vagina sex, I just slap a condom on a little lube and we're, and we're good to go. But I guess the real question is, is the payoff worth the work? And I think what you're telling us is, yes, it is.
If I'm hearing you. Yeah. I think that, you know, obviously I see it, that it's the works just because of, you know, constantly people coming through and where this is. You know, I think when you look at the gay space, right, we don't have a vagina. So that basically the ass is the vagina. And I always equate that so that people, listeners can understand. Like I always say to people when someone in the hetero world will be like, well, I just don't get it. I'm like, OK, tonight I'm going to stitch your vagina closed and you can never use it for anal sex again. I don't know.
like, well, I just don't get it. I'm like, OK, tonight I'm going to stitch your vagina closed and you can never use it for anal sex again. And then they'll be like, oh, fuck, I get it. I'm like, yeah, for many gay men or many men, the ass itself is that.
And when you mentally want something in your vagina, in your hole, and you can't get it, it it fucks with you it fucks with your relationships it creates a dynamic that is not where we want it to be and so with that being said I think you know especially in the swing world or in the hetero world of like I want to bring anal play into this I think the key is I don't want it to be a lot of work right right? And the goal is like, it shouldn't be, it should be at some point where you've proven to yourself that you're able to do it, you're able to do it successfully.
And then it could be like, you know, yeah, honey, just stick it in right now. And you're fine with it. And for the most people, it will be that. But the key is, how do you kind of navigate that to get to that point? And the reality is, is that, yeah, it's super pleasurable. And it's super interesting. Now, some people just go directly to finger play. Now, I don't love fingers. I'll explain. People have nails, right? Some people have dirty fingers, right? Second is, the finger itself is really multi-jointed. And for some reason, first of all, like try to put a finger up your ass.
It's a weird angle, even for you to do on your own.
And then when, when others like partners love to do it, they like to kind of pluck and, and kind of do these things where you could get significant tearing in that space space so you really want to find somebody that if you're doing massage work or couples are doing in the swing world a lot of fun stuff i'm all for massaging externally the whole itself you know finger play i'm fine with if you know what you're doing but again like some people can start with that and that tickles them to be like this is super powerful i want to bring this into my sex space i think in women this is what's super important is a lot of women can't get off fully with vaginal penetration or they can't fully have an orgasm or they can't have multiple in certain ways but yet anally because of the way that it hits the cervix, the vagina, the uterus, because of the way there's this posterior clitoris, because of the way and the angle, many people are that much greater enhanced with their orgasms from a female perspective just because of the angle of their pelvis and what prohibits them from vaginally getting completely off to anal.
And now think of it in the swing space or in anyone with multiple partners, one in the vagina, one in the ass, how that can actually play into just enhancing the game. And this is all about, you may be like, this is so great for three, four, or years. And then after it'd be like, I'm done for a little while and then bring it back. I mean, you guys know sex is so fluid, but I think to just take anal off the table because of our internalized homophobia or, or internalized, am I on the spectrum or is it going to be dirty or all these things?
I think that's a lot of the issue for us to kind of navigate. Yeah. I think people overthink it. You know what I mean? I think even I overthink it sometimes. It's like, like, kind of like what you're saying. Well, a lot of some couples that just get horny one night and like, fuck me in the ass. And they're like, oh my God, I love that.
And then they're having anal sex from there on out so i i do think there's you know the stigma around it and it keeps people from engaging in it and like you said vagina sex for heterosexual couples is just easier so people tend to just not even start down that road but i definitely think it's like a couple that's sex positive and always looking to explore and really the swinger community is is sex positive and always looking to explore i think kind of knowing more about it and then the proper ways because even just from our conversation you know you're like oh put it in until you feel the first muscle and then stop you know then stop and then the second muscle and then the third and i think i like the times me and lacy have had anal sex we've never had anal sex that way it's just like can i get my dick in all the way in her without her punching me and you know that's basically exactly but but kind of understanding these little nuances even if you know we don't order a glass kit and do it but what you just said we could kind of do that same thing with my dick and kind of work our way into it you know i mean so i think there is hearing it and kind of understanding more about it i think is a good thing for anybody 100%.
I mean, I think that that's the key is, you know, it's the sex ed that we never got, you know, specifically in the hetero space, even in my gay space.
I mean, you look at sexual education in this divisive world, it's non-existent, you know, and that's what's so cool about what you're doing on the podcast side is again, talking about a lot of these issues and finding the people that can navigate that again people don't know the skin the muscle how to get things relaxed they don't understand that that third muscle no matter how much you tell your ass to relax it won't and the reasons why and how you can actually overcome all of that but i you know, the issue also is how do you empower yourself, right?
Because if I empower you as a bottom, let's say, or empower you as someone that can engage anally, especially in the swing world, where you may be with new couples, it may be, you know, couples that you've swung before with, and how do you navigate, like, how do you be submissive if you want to be submissive but still be in control it's not easy right because if i've never been in your ass before but you know and and now all of a sudden we're in a new situation we're swinging and i'm trying and i don't know what i'm doing to put it in your ass i can cause a lot of damage right you right?
You can cause a lot of issues. So, so how do you, as the bottom, the receiver, learn to navigate those nuances for everybody? My dick may be swinging to the left. It may be down. It may be thicker. It may be longer. Even shorter penis can be more difficult anally because it keeps popping out. And so every time it pops out, they try to get it back in and it's a different angle. So what's cool about what we're doing in the book and kind of everything with But Seriously is like, it's that, right? It's like, it gives you all of that so that now you can think of sex differently.
And it's not only the ass, it's thinking about, oh, well, I never thought about the vagina in this way.
I never thought about thought about the anatomy what about oral sex what about all these things that we think about how do we think about it with a little bit of a scientific sexual education so that now we can minimize as much potential damage and just make it the best sex you've ever had yeah no it's definitely interesting i think it's you know it has always intrigued me because i always hear these stories you know it's usually older women or or you know people that have been in like the sex work industry and they're like oh yeah if you want to make a guy come just stick a finger in his ass and they'll come in two seconds you know i mean like there's always that like everybody talks about it but you know from my personal perspective i've never figured out a way to do it and enjoy it so it sounds like what for if i'm learning from what you're saying it's it's not something you're going to do in one night or it's not something you're going to do in one play session you really have to be intentional and take your time to kind of work up to it and that's i guess at some point in that journey you're gonna the light will flick and you'll say, yeah, that this is something that feels good to me.
Totally. Yeah. A hundred percent. You're right. And I think, or you get lucky that the first time that you've tried it, the person actually knows what the fuck they're doing, where you're able to, that's why a lot of people do like the happy ending massage stuff where the guys, the girls, whatever, know where the prostate is.
They're able to evaluate and get it into a good space so that you feel comfortable with that but it's again it's a trust and it's an understanding that's why self-play to me is so important on your own first to be able to navigate it and then slowly starting to bring it into your play or not it depends on where you want to be but all the straight boys all the straight boys that i see after they start to bring anal some aspects of it it just changes the dynamic but i get it i totally get it i'm like i'm like a bro gay where i totally can i totally understand but it is it it's it is well they say you say it's the male G-spot, you know what I mean?
And I think there's truth to that. But I think it's almost like worse, not worse, but it's almost more mysterious than the female G-spot. It's like harder to get to. Like you're going to have to put in work to find it, you know what I mean? And you have to be willing. Exactly. From learning from you, you've got to be willing to do it, yeah. That's right.
Once you tap into it or it's a whole different game yeah and there it sounds like there's all kinds like you prostate massage and all that stuff there's there's multiple benefits to that right i mean i've heard people that have uh erectile dysfunction issues by engaging the prostate it can help with that i mean there's all kinds of benefits to to exploring this right yeah a lot of us as we're aging also get prostatitis, which is where the prostate, that gland gets irritated.
And so what happens is, is that, you know, a lot of people don't know that they should be getting off two to three times a week. Even if you're not having sex, jerking off is important. It's a pump system and you have to keep that pump system moving. If you're not coming for too long, or it was a really strenuous swing where you're having so much sex that every muscle is so contracted, what can happen is that prostate gland gets so swollen that it can actually get irritated and inflamed. Same thing with anal sex.
If someone's hitting that prostate aggressively, it can cause problems with that and the pelvic floor. So a lot of this is, again, is the pelvic floor responds through contraction. And so, well, if it's overly contracted already, and now we're adding even more contraction, when do you dilate? When do you open that space? When do you learn to relax the pelvic floor? And it helps with the prostate issues. It can definitely help with erectile issues and create better blood flow in an appropriate space.
Though I will say that some people don't shoot as far with anal play simply because the ass in many men, especially the hetero men, are responsible for shooting very far. So when you are using toys, you may notice that it doesn't go very far or you dribble a little bit.
And that's in the beginning of learning anal play, but the, but the actual orgasm itself itself the actual contraction of the entire body is that much more enhanced and you know it's i just think it's it's super fun stuff to talk about because nobody knows and the education is so lacking and i think it's also this kind of final frontier of how do we just make everybody into anal it's like my mission you know it's like fuck it no i think and that's i guess it's always been my my outlook i'm very sexually open but if you just you know the few times i've tried it is like yeah that didn't that felt weird like and it's just not and i thought maybe okay maybe it's just not for me maybe my nerve endings aren't you different.
I don't know. You know what I mean? So I've just kind of – if it didn't feel good, I don't do it. You know what I mean? So that's kind of been my mentality. But it sounds to me like from after I'm talking to you, it's, well, you didn't feel good because you tried it one time and you didn't do it the right way.
And I think that there are certain things like think about like if you were to – do you ever get guys get a foot massage let's say you go to the chinese spa you get a foot massage and the first you you hear someone like that they're giggling the whole time because they're ticklish they're ticklish but if every week they go for a massage they don't they don't they're not ticklish anymore right and you say, well, why is that? Because you're able to train the nerve endings and the same thing anally.
Many people that I, you know, whether I engage sexually with them or they're using toys with others, they're like, oh, I feel like I have to take a shit or, oh, it doesn't feel comfortable. Well, you can actually train those nerve endings. because the nerve endings are either pleasure or pressure.
Well, okay, how do you start to train and it's the same thing with like the foot massage the more you're doing with the toy stuff the more you're getting relaxation the more you're working that space you can actually change these sensations to much more being positive and again that's just how How much work you want to put into this what anatomy do you have and how important this is for you and if it is important i break things up into three buckets can you do things on your own do you need a physical therapist or in office stuff like anal botox or others or do i need to do surgery those buckets are really are determined by you, meaning, do you want to do this?
How important it is for you? And what are the ramifications of what ass I was given in this world? Yeah, no. Okay. I think that's great. All right. And another thing I would like to just kind of touch on for a second is I do see in our community, we see more and more men opening up to being bisexual. We see things like pegging being more and more of a common, you know, where people are talking about it or interested in it. And I think a lot of that is the stigma that, you know, it's okay for guys to be bi and it's okay for guys to explore things like pegging.
And you just because you're getting pegged doesn't mean you're bi or gay um so i think that's exciting for us to see yeah and then i think but the part that maybe isn't there is this education piece that you're talking about yeah i mean i see it too i mean i think especially younger generations right now everybody is that much more fluid and into this. Let's just talk about pleasure, which is so amazing. I think when you look at the pegging side of things and the way, look, it just changes. It just adds a new dimension to your sex space, right? Are you submissive?
Sometimes you want to be submissive. Sometimes you you want to be taken a lot of women also want to be the giver and they you know and being the pegging side actually creates so much more juice for them in their world simply because it puts them in that position there's lots to it i mean that role play side of it is so interesting and also think I always tell people, it's like, you know, it's what you don't know that limits you. And a lot of it is your preconceived notions, and all of these judgments and biases.
But unless you experience pleasure in other ways outside of your comfort zone, you would never know's like my son sebastian is like i only eat fucking chicken and french fries and you're like you're like bro like you haven't had this type of a sushi yeah how do you know without trying and it's the same concept with sex we are so vanilla in the space when you look at globally instead of saying okay i may not like this it may not be my go-to but i'm gonna try well how do you start to step into the try side of things because you wouldn't know unless you try and that is where i think now we're seeing a lot more people saying yeah yeah, you know what?
People are having a lot of fun. It is in the popular press. People are talking about it. How do I start to bring it into my own sex space comfortably? Yeah. All right. In the last couple of minutes here, Dr. Goldstein, if you had something, a message to kind of say to the swinger community coming from your perspective, what would that be?
What's your last closing advice for the swingers out there i i think that you guys got to keep pushing the narratives and keep talking and being positive and meeting people and pushing the agenda uh i think again you know similar swing nation similar is very similar to my space the gay space there's lots of preconceived notions there's lots of taboos there's lots of limitations and there's lots of variability even within the swing world i think it's all about how do you guys educate the masses as well right to make it so that it's not this thought of a negative component but i also think that it is so cool now that we're in this space that everybody is able to explore and be more comfortable and open.
And hopefully that people will take the anal side of what we're doing and start putting it into their space. And, you know, by all means, you know, through the book, but seriously, through my bespoke surgical on our website and future method, we have so many different components that you can kind of say, all right, yeah, this makes sense for me. How do I start to slowly put it into my space? Again, super proud of the Swing Nation, as you guys would say it. Just got to keep navigating it. And you're seeing the fruits of the labor because every year it just gets easier to talk about.
More people are entering the space. More people are talking about it. More of the positive, which is what we need. Yeah, I appreciate that. So if people want to find you and learn more, I feel like if, you know, we just talked about this for an hour. But I still feel like we're just kind of like touching on the surface of all of this.
So people are are if we've kind of sparked an interest and they want to find out more uh where can they go to get your book and learn more about this sure yeah so but seriously is everywhere whether it's barnes and noble amazon our website's but seriously.com uh that's navigating that bespoke surgical is the surgical practice so that's on all channels i do a lot of zoom calls if people need or you can dm me on instagram it's dr evan goldstein on that future method is the product based company it goes over all the different products why we put them into the space and the science of sex as it relates to that and so through all of those you'll be able to navigate and then if there there's issues, questions, by all means, DM, reach out, email, however it works.
All right. Well, we appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to sit down and talk to us and all the Swing Nation listeners. And I hope some of you can go check your stuff out. I might need you to send me a copy of that book or I might go buy me one or something. I feel like I need to learn some more stuff. I'm sending you a book. Yeah. Sending you a book. A book in the dilator kit. Yeah. That's what. Next one we're talking about. Then we'll have to do a follow-up episode and see how Dan did on his journey, if I made it or if I gave up. But I appreciate you taking the time.
No, thank you, guys. All right. I think with that and a world full of apples. Be the pineapple. Be the pineapple, guys. Bye. Bye. If you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us, leave a five-star review wherever you're listening. If you want to see more of our content, you can find links to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, OnlyFans, and more in the show notes. Come join the conversation with us and other Swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server. If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingnation at gmail.com.
Make sure you head on over to theswingnation.net and keep up to date on all things Swing Nation. We thank you so much for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Goodbye.
