Send us Fan MailThe Swing Nation PodcastLifestyle Education: Unicorns and Bulls | Episode 9 In this swinger podcast episode, Dan and Lacy talk unicorns and bulls in the lifestyle. They go over their personal experiences in these rolls, give advice to singles looking to navigate their way around in the lifestyle, and go over some of the hard lessons they have learned over the years. _______________ - The Swing Nation - Main Website Quick Navigation Website: -- (Find all our social media links more!) Follow us on Facebook! The Podcast Website_______________ - Swinger Society - Our Website to meet, connect events Swinger Society Discord Our Facebook Group_______________ - Swinger Websites - SDCUsername: TheSwingNation** Use code 36313 for 14 days free! ** SLSUsername: NorthernGuynSouthernGirl_______________ - Merch More - The Swing Nation Merch The Swinger Pride Flags Swinger Society Merch_______________ - Lacy’s Fun Links - VIP OnlyFans PREMIUM OnlyFans _______________ -- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS -- Shameless Care: ED Medication and at home STD testingUse Code TSN at checkout for $30 off your order! Promescent® Make Love Longer, It’s Time for Great SexUse Code SwingNation for 5% off! Pinaq Liqueur; The Official Drink of The Swing NationUse Code TSN at checkout for 15% off! Non-monogamy Couples Course and Single Guy Mastery CourseUse Code ATLANTA for 50% off!- Thank you for the support! -
Transcript
This podcast is intended for adult audiences. Over the age of 18, it contains adult language and situations. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to us and not of any employer, organization, committee, or other group or individuals. This podcast is not intended to be taken as professional advice.
Welcome to the Swing Nation podcast, a podcast by swingers for swingers, where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions associated with our lifestyle. Come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe, interview the experts, learn and grow together. Join the nation. Hey there, pineapple people, and welcome to the Swing Nation podcast. We are your hosts, Northern Guy. Southern Girl. Southern Girl.
All right, so today's episode, we're going to talk a little bit about unicorns and bulls unicorns and bulls this was highly requested yeah so we've uh you know i think if you follow us on tiktok and follow our podcasts going to hedo at the end of the month and so we're going to be a part before hedo and then we're not sure what's going to be going on at Hedo, so we're trying to get ahead on episodes a little bit, right?
And so we kind of put out there, hey, guys, give us some ideas for podcasts, right? We got all kinds of ideas. We did, but Unicorn and Bull was definitely a hot topic that everyone wanted to know about. Yeah. We happen to have a little knowledge of those subjects. Yeah, we do. So, if you know from our previous podcast, we were both single in the lifestyle prior to meeting each other. Right. So, we're going to give you a little insight into the unicorn and bull life.
Of course, based off our experiences. I'm sure not all experiences are equal.
Oh'm sure everyone has a different experience but we'll try to give you you know how that was before we met and kind of how how the unicorn and bull lives are so we'll start with with lacy um because for those of you that will you know don't listen to the whole thing you really want to listen to lacy so we'll put her up we'll put her up front you have a good story yeah put her up front um but uh let's just start with you know because we get to ask this question a lot uh you know start with the basics what what is a unicorn so i did look it up so we could get the official definition okay um this is official according to swingfields.com i don't know they're the experts i don't think it looks it looks official we're going with it okay so it's a swinging glossary so for a unicorn it says a unicorn refers to a single woman in the lifestyle they are called unicorns because they are pretty rare and many have never seen one yeah i think that's a pretty good like that's pretty solid yeah i agree did you say swimmerfields.com yeah yeah that's pretty good it's actually really yeah it's pretty official maybe we'll send maybe we'll put it in the show we can put the link in the show there you give them credit it's actually really it's a really good glossary if you are new and want to learn about things i like it we do get a lot of term questions on tiktok anyway but anyway yeah so unicorn single female in the lifestyle and they are hard to find so it's the whole a unicorn is a mythical creature that uh may or may not exist and you may or may not ever see one yeah so like a backstory on just like us as a couple we've really only ever met in person with one unicorn yeah yeah other than like parties we've probably seen a few yeah we've seen a few, we've really only ever met in person with one unicorn.
Yeah, other than like parties. We've probably seen a few. Yeah, we've seen a few. But we've actually never played with a unicorn as a couple. We're open to it. We've entertained the idea. We're kind of always on the lookout. It's not something that we like actively seek out, I guess. No, I feel like, yeah, we did. There was a time that we were.
A month or two where we we're gonna find a we're gonna find a unicorn yeah um and it just didn't work out yeah we found one and it just didn't that it didn't work out we'll just we can get into that maybe later okay but uh yeah so that's that's that so you want to go a little bit over your your past and yeah your uniform life so you've heard us talk a little bit about, um, us being single prior to being in the lifestyle. So, or prior to meeting each other rather.
Um, so I was introduced from the last, to the lifestyle from a former boyfriend. We never played in the lifestyle. We never did anything. We did go to one swing or club. We didn't do anything.
But after we broke we broke up I really was interested in the lifestyle I had never heard the term unicorn as far as like swinging goes I didn't know anything about it um I just knew I wanted to like hang out with a couple and thought that was super hot the idea of that so I had heard about SLS from a podcast and I can't even tell you the name of it. I wish I could give them credit for it now. But, um, so I looked up SLS online and made a profile.
Little did I know that I was about to be flooded with messages. Yeah. So I guess that, you know, as a, you know, if there's girls out there that want to be unicorns, um, you know, when you're a unicorn, how do you go about meeting couples and what's that like? So, yeah, I mean, so the first thing I did, cause I didn't have any, any idea how you meet a couple. Um, so I just made a profile, um, and the messages just came in very, very quickly. all day, every day.
I don't know how else to put it I mean I don't mean that to be bragging honestly it didn't matter what I looked like I didn't have a face picture I didn't even I had like one picture that had my boobs with a white t-shirt um so you could kind of see my figure a little and but you couldn couldn't really see anything else, honestly. That's all it took though. And couples were just messaging me all day, every day. And at first it was kind of overwhelming.
I'm not going to lie because you had all these couples and they were all like wanting to meet like day one. Yeah. So how, how did you go about, so I guess, you know, so to answer the question, yeah. Singles meet couples the same way couples meet couples. The websites really still are the best source to do that. But I guess the uniqueness to a unicorn is you probably are going to get overwhelmed with messages. Yeah, you basically just get to pick your pick of the group, if that makes sense.
Was there any strategy to going through? No, I was so new. I was so fresh. So brand new. I knew nothing about swinging, didn't know anything about any, you know, I just had no idea. So it was really based on like attraction, I guess at first, like who I was actually like really attracted to.
And my first couple, the husband was like really, really handsome and I was just absolutely drawn to him and that's how I picked yeah and then so typical same kind of thing you yeah so we downloaded Keck and we chatted for a while they were not local to me they were several hours away so it wasn't like we could meet that day on the next few days it was um let's plan to meet in a few weeks and so we really just began chatting daily um and one of the things that I found as a unicorn is couples like like to claim me and like make me their girlfriend like I know we say that like poly is different than swinging as a unicorn I felt very like, brought in as a girlfriend in pretty much every single couple situation that I played in.
Yeah, I would imagine that because unicorns are hard to find, when a couple does find one, they do want to almost... Especially one that's cute, like me. Right, court them and kind of hold on to them. Yeah, that's what I found. I found that. And that was the case with the first one. I very much felt like I was dating both of them, which was totally new to me. I had never really dated a woman. I mean, not even that I was dating her, but I felt like I had to keep her happy as well as him.
And I kind of got why men think that women are crazy, because some days she would be in a good mood, and the next day she wouldn't, and it really didn't have anything to do with me. So, it was definitely a balancing act, something that I had never done before. No, and so, that was the first couple, did you date? I mean, or did you meet several couples? Or how? Yeah. I mean, over the course of my time as a unicorn, yeah, I met lots of couples.
Some great, some amazing, some that I played with, some that I did not. Most, I played with more than once. I can't think of a couple that I didn't play with multiple times. Like, they all liked me. Right. So, you. I was a repetition. Thank you.
once i can't think of a couple that i didn't play with multiple times like they all liked me right so you i was always your choice whether to go back or not not customer not that this was so oh that was awful never mind yeah no i i get what you're saying yeah yeah um they liked me they wanted me back yeah, did you have any problems with fake accounts or single guys pretending to be couples? No. And maybe, I don't know, maybe I just weeded them out without knowing I was doing it, but I didn't.
If I was interested, it always kind of went somewhere.
Um, you know, when we get a lot of questions about, um if i felt safe as a unicorn that's like a really top question um first let me say i never went to clubs or anything like that alone if i ever went with to a club i always was with a couple i personally don't think i would ever walk into a club alone as a single female i would be too scared really yeah yeah i would be too scared i would be like a little intimidated too because yeah i mean even now scared but like for your safety scared i feel like every club we've been to i mean they've had security it's been pretty safe i don't think i don't know i just wouldn't feel i wouldn't feel comfortable i don't know if intimidated i can get or just like but still uneasy i think as a woman going into a place i wouldn't even want to go to a normal everyday bar alone to be honest with you i think that's just me being a female i get it makes sense um so i definitely probably wouldn't go especially dressed provocatively um like i would if i was going to a swinger club um as far as meeting couples I always met let me back up I pretty much always met people as the first time at a um public place like a bar or restaurant I would be lying if I said I didn't go to people's houses before because I have full disclosure.
You know, we, we keep it truthful here. I can think of multiple couples that I went to their house, but overall it's a good rule of thumb. I did try to meet couples in person and open in public areas, especially in the beginning.
And when I I first started I would text like my best friends and say I'm at the embassy downtown like hotel so they would be like what the hell are you doing they didn't know what I was doing but I would want someone to know my location because obviously like I wasn't actively telling people what i was doing right that makes sense um so let's see so you you met a bunch of couples usually in public and then you know whatever their hotel or in their house didn't have didn't have any issues with fakes which i i find it hard to believe i would think that no i mean honestly i mean it's been a few years but i can't think of a fake profile off the top of my head i mean were there some i'm sure there was but i can't think of a time like when i wanted to meet someone but they wouldn't meet i don't know okay now did you as a single female feel how many how often would the husband hit you up on the side always always 95% 90 percent of the time yeah and that was that did you i mean i because i know you were new to the lifestyle were you did you know the rules so i didn't know would they tell you the rules and then he would violate it no so i didn't know the rules i didn't know that swingers had boundaries i was literally like i kind of described myself it's like you know when you're in your early 20s and you're in college and you're dating and you really don't know what you're doing but you're trying your hardest and you're messing up that's kind of how I like explain my unicorn days because I didn't know what I was doing I was literally just kind of figuring it out as I went I didn't know to ask couples hey what are your boundaries or what's okay what's not okay I didn't I didn't know to ask couples, Hey, what are your boundaries?
Or what's okay? What's not okay? I didn't, I didn't know to do that. And a lot of couples were just so happy to have me. They didn't really know to communicate that. I mean, I know we talk on here about communication and doing these things, but not all, not all couples do that. Right.
I mean, that's like ideal, but realistically, a lot of couples are not swinging for the right reasons and they're not communicating the way they should so what would you so out of i don't know you know so what's my lesson learned no no what would be the percentage of couples that when they first approached you made it the boundaries and the rules clear i can't think of anyone off the top of my head so very low percentage very low percentage yeah which i a good takeaway for anybody listening, right?
Yeah. Because if you don't lay out your rules and your boundaries to other, whether it's couples and couples or couples and singles, it's hard for you to expect them to know what they are. Yeah. And then you're, they're going to cross them if they don't know them, right? Yeah.
I can remember times where I did cross boundaries and I was told that I crossed a boundary boundary and i was very respectful of it and i was like you know it wasn't a mean like somebody wasn't being mean to me they were just like hey we prefer to do it this way and i'm like oh absolutely we'll do and made sure i did it that way going forward but never was i ever told beforehand because i think i would have 100 at least made a good faith effort to follow those boundaries. Okay.
I guess, so here's another open, honest question. Did you ever meet the husband's solo without the wife? Did you ever follow through on any of that? Okay. So no, never a couple, I'd never met a husband alone that I had played with the husband and the one. Okay. I did meet a husband that I had originally met, not met, but we had connected on SLS and I chatted with him and his wife. And then somehow the wife dropped off of the kick group.
I don't know if a separate kick was made with you, it's been a few years. I can't really remember. But somehow it ended up just being him and I. And then I did meet him alone, which I'm 99% positive that she was not aware of. Full disclosure. All right. So I guess probably now is a good time. Do you want to tell that full story?
Because we're going to tell a story for each one of our let's break that story down that's not really a good unicorn story that's not the that's not the one that's not the one you want no but i can do a little quick review of that i mean basically i mean it was a husband who was cheating that sounds so awful i mean but realistically like if you want me to be super honest, it was. And I learned a lot from my unicorn days that brought me to where I am and the swinger that I am today.
And I made a lot of decisions that, in hindsight, I should not have made. And that was one of them. Yeah. So was it clear to you that he was cheating or was he vague about it?
It was vague in the beginning, but realize it and i didn't stop him yeah yeah uh and i i almost feel like is this is this going badly no i think it's very important because i think there's there's a lot of i mean i think there's couples out there i just don't want to mislead and pretend like i was this perfect unicorn who didn't make mistakes i absolutely did i didn't know what i was doing you know i guess I was in my 30s but I very much acted like somebody like in their 20s you know I was recently divorced and I just was like I'm hot and people like me and I'm just gonna live it up you know so I made a lot of mistakes that I wish that I could fix now yeah and I think for you know the couples or even maybe the unicorn that are out there, it kind of reiterates why it's so important to be very clear of your boundaries.
Uh, you know, and I, I really put, especially like if you have a young, you know, you know, female, that's not familiar with the lifestyle, it's really up to that couple to, to guide them and kind of, yeah, I wasn't ever, you know, like I didn't know that I should have should have boundaries i mean that doesn't make sense we all should have boundaries right but as a unicorn i didn't realize that i should have made my own set of boundaries just like every single couple makes their own set of boundaries i mean i'm sure i had boundaries like that weren't defined because there was things that i wouldn't do but i didn't never had, like, if anybody asks us our boundaries, we can, you know, write them off, no problem.
But I never had that. And I wish that I had the knowledge about the lifestyle to really know that. And I think that would have set myself up for, I mean, I had great success.
I would have just probably been a better unicorn had I um had I known those things yeah um what about did you have relationships like boyfriends during the time that you were a unicorn um no I had any cross you know I had single guys that I would meet on occasion so other than you there was two other single guys that I hooked up with um that were in the lifestyle okay one I became really good friends with like it was ended up being more of a friendship than anything um than a sexual thing it started that but really just became more of a friendship um and the other one was just strictly physical um so yeah I mean those would be like the closest thing I would consider a boyfriend they really weren't boyfriend Thank you.
friendship um and the other one was just strictly physical um so yeah I mean those would be like the closest thing I would consider a boyfriend they really weren't boyfriends but you didn't date any vanilla guys during your unicorn days no I did not had you made so once you got into the swimmer lifestyle had you decided if I find a guy like I want him to be involved in this lifestyle or I knew that it was going to be hard to go back to where I knew that like going back to monogamous was going to be exceptionally hard like when I met you me and you had multiple conversations about that and like how in the world can I go back to like a white picket fence husband and wife normal everyday sex like after you, know after you um have done that you know because I can remember one time I was telling somebody it was somebody in the lifestyle about what I was doing I was like oh I'm going here to hang out with this couple it's just it's just a threesome it's not anything crazy it's just like a normal you know it's just a normal threesome and I thought to myself wait a second that's not normal most people don't say I just I'm just having like a Thank you.
You know, it's just a normal threesome. And I thought to myself, wait a second, that's not normal. Most people don't say I just, I'm just having like an old fashioned, just a normal threesome. I'm going to have a vanilla threesome this weekend. You know, but I mean, that's kind of where my life had gotten to. It wasn't, you know, it was just going over to their house. It wasn't anything special.
um and I knew that going from that to going back to like a normal vanilla relationship was going to be hard so i did want to find someone that i could enjoy the lifestyle with that was my goal or hopes and dreams okay um i think let's tell a story so you know i think before we started this podcast just so everybody listening to know we kind of said okay we'll tell one story um for each the the unicorn and the bull um so you you picked the story so let's hear your story so the first couple that i played with the one i told you that i was like super attracted to the husband was my like one terrible unicorn story.
Um, and I've told this on live so if you've heard this sorry um but it's a really good story um so I was extremely attracted to the husband I had met them and been around them quite a few times been to their house met their kids I mean like you know it wasn't it was a thing you know that were enjoying. And all of a sudden the husband started messaging me on the side. Now, Swinger101 says, red flag, red flag run. But I didn't know that. You know, I was brand new. I thought he was hot.
I was super attracted to him and he just, I was flattered. I mean, that's just the, that's just the best way I could put it. I was flattered and I did, I did start communicating with him on the side. Um, I guess because it was just communication. It was, I never met him alone. Like for the record, I never met him alone. I never saw him without her, nothing like that.
Um, it was strictly communication via kick and like so um of course the wife did find out um because they always do unicorns if you're here if you're listening if you're wanting advice the wife's always find out um and of course if you're a bad unicorn i was a bad unicorn um i wish I could do it over again real life not that I want to be a unicorn I think I would be a better unicorn today with my knowledge just for the record um so um of course the wife found out she threw a fucking fit of course right you know she like blew up my phone forever like just called me every name in the book she was awful I mean so bad and so he calls me and I'm you know a single mom I live across the street from my parents at the time you know I have a younger son and he calls and he says hey I'm coming to live with you and I just took $40,000 out of my 401k so I have like money to like pay off everything and and get myself moved up there but I'm coming and now keep in mind I had never been alone with this man other when his wife was there so like my mouth hit the floor and I was like oh shit oh shit we're in trouble because yeah he was cute and yeah it was fun to have sex with him but like I didn't want the man to move in with me like I never ever gave him any indication that like that is where our side conversation was going like never um so I had to like quickly be like um that's not happening you know like I mean I like you I enjoy this you know but that's not happening so obviously he didn't come he didn't move in with me but it was hell that wife made my life hell for I don't know why I didn't block her or maybe I did and she found other ways to communicate with me I don't know but, she literally blew up my phone for weeks.
And I never, you know, after I, we, you know, we knew that when the last time we talked that we weren't going to speak again, me and him. And I was like, you know, good luck to you. He's like, good luck to you. And we said our goodbyes and then we didn't communicate anymore. So that was my very first couple. Um, I learned a very valuable lesson to never talk to a man.
Um, so that was my very first couple, um, I learned a very valuable lesson to never talk to a man, um, on the side, which I kind of did again.
Now that we talk about, I didn't even realize that, but I'm sure I did it again, obviously, but you're, you're sometimes it takes you a few times, but no, it was honestly, I took my SLS profile down after them um I was like you know I love swinging this is fun this is hot but that's not fun that's not what I signed up for and um so I took my SLS profile down and I took like a month or two off because I was not gonna do that anymore um but then again you know after the dust settled i came crawling back right couldn't keep you away yeah so i would say ladies if you if you're thinking about joining the lifestyle you're thinking about being a unicorn you know i guess if you learn from my mistakes here um i was by no means perfect in any shape or you know way you know set yourself boundaries make sure that you follow a couple's boundaries um don't sleep with married men without their wife's permission what else no i think um i feel like a horrible unicorn i'm covering my face here not here i thought it was like like we always joke so like a horrible unicorn.
I'm covering my face here. Like we always joke. So like the drunker I get, the more like the more I tell Dan I was the ultimate unicorn. Because I think after that experience overall with couples moving forward, I was really, really good. Right.
Like I think I did much better with an actual couple that that they did communicate clearly and everything was out in the open I think I did a very good job um moving forward but that couple I did not I did not I did terrible yeah the only other question I think is probably valid and I've heard you talk about this before on TikTok live and stuff is is it hard being the other girl it is it's like a double-edged sword so yeah it's fun right you are the ultimate prize right everybody wants a unicorn so a unicorn pretty much gets whatever they want you know i would show up i would have a hotel room i would have my dinner bought my drink i've never paid for anything um and it was wonderful it It was fun, right?
No feelings. You come in, you get to have amazing sex and, you know, just be like this shiny new toy that everyone likes to play with. And that's awesome, right? And you get to go home. You don't got to deal with a crazy ass wife who's jealous or has something to say. You just get to like be carefree, which is wonderful.
But on the same same time like after you play with a couple for multiple times and you develop like a friendship slash relationship with this couple it does get a little sad that at the end of the night they get to cuddle and you got to go back to your hotel room alone or you got to drive home alone um so yeah i mean does that make sense like no I think it I think it makes 100% sense I think that's the you know the I think the important part is you if you want to enter this lifestyle as a single um especially especially as a unicorn it seems you have to understand that that you're always going to be disposable disposable you're you're you know the way swingers work it's not poly you're you're the extra you know i mean like it's always going to be that couple first that husband's always going to care for and you know if there's a dispute if there's an argument yeah the wife's always going to be right so you are going to end up being that that third wheel that odd man out you know and it's just something you're gonna you know there's like you said there's lots of pros to being oh so many pros yeah um but if there is a downfall that's probably it and you know in the beginning it was a lot more fun to be so carefree and be like oh they gotta go deal with the drama i get to go home but as i was a unicorn for a while i think that started to wear on me more the fact that I was alone and that I was the one going home in the beginning I didn't really care because it was just like fun and hot and I was just like living it up um and too I was also I guess if I could add anything to this I wish that I would had been a little bit more choosy because I was extremely popular and it was hard to like determine like I felt pulled in a lot of different directions finding the quality couple that you actually want to commit yeah because like there was a lot of awesome couples and I kind of wanted to play with them all so I felt like I was a little bit of a whore girl no I was like when you came into my life I remember saying that like I'm really glad you came into my life the time he did because I was like a, when you came into my life, I remember saying that.
Like, I'm really glad you came into my life at the time you did because I was, like, a wild mess. You know, it was not, oh, sorry, the dogs are scratching. If you can hear that. Being crazy dogs. I was, like, I was out swinging multiple times a week at that point. So, your girl needed to be calmed down.
reined you in you did tame that unicorn she needed tame uh so i think that's it yeah any other lessons any takeaways i don't think so crush crush being a unicorn i think so i hope i answered um people's questions all right so now if you don't care about my story you can turn the dance story's good uh but now we're gonna move on to to what's a bull and what's it like being a bull and uh you know we'll kind of go over the same things that lacy did but um from the bull perspective so first of all uh what is a bull lacy okay according to swing films swinger dictionary or swinger glossary a bull is a guy that is just for casual sex with it with a female either single or part of a couple men that are considered bulls are typically well in doubt i don't agree with with the female i would say with couple uh you're saying a bull should be single no it says a bull is a guy that is just for casual sex with a female.
Oh, no, no. Yeah, it could be a couple. There are bi bulls. But I just, I guess I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Never mind. That's what a bull is. Yeah, I think that probably was talking about bisexual bulls, which is totally a thing in the last time. Not my thing, but definitely is a thing. Yeah. So tell us about being a bull. How did you become one? Yeah. Give us a story. So, yeah. If you listen to our first episode, we run this down.
But the real, the cliff note version is I was dating a chick that was a swinger in her previous marriage, actually. and uh somehow it had come up in our conversation that you know she used to be a swinger and she had brought up to me if that was something i'd be into and of course me being um the naughty the naughty guy that i am i was like hell yeah like what why did you not tell me about this earlier like what and you know it's just she showed me sls we ended up making an SLS profile.
So you'd never heard about SLS until she showed you. I had no idea what SLS was. I mean, I knew, I think what everybody knows about swinging that, you know, the Hollywood. Yeah. You know, couples having sex with each other, key party, you know, all that. I knew what everybody knows, but I didn't know there was whole websites dedicated to it and all that. So obviously our relationship didn't work out. And then kind of like you, I was like, the swinging thing is awesome. I'm not going anywhere.
Yeah. I'll see you next time.
to it and uh and all that um so obviously our relationship didn't work out and then kind of like you i was like the swinging thing is awesome i'm not i'm not going anywhere yeah uh you know i think i i either deleted our account made a new one or i just transitioned it you know changed it whatever i did but i made a single single male profile on sls um and you know we've talked a little bit about the experience for a single male in the lifestyle is very different than the experience for a single female in the lifestyle.
It's different because I think it's like any dating site or, you know, any guy. The guy really is the pursuer in this situation. And it's the same for. Where I very much felt pursued. Right.
For for single males you really have to go out there and sell yourself to a couple as hey I'm the kind of guy you want to spend the night with I'm the kind of guy that can show you a good time um so you know you have to make take time with your profile you know unlike Lacey who had one random snapshot that she barely tried to take um you know I had to have several pictures you know good angles you know good lighting you know uh really highlight some of my assets um and you know and write a you know a well-written kind of narrative and to sell myself um and and then i had to you know search the rest of the last find couples that were looking for single males message them and say hey you know i see you're looking for single males i'm in your area you know i unlock my pictures for you um you know i'm open to trying you know i like you know i'm very sexual i tend to be more dominant i have a decent cock you know and really try to sell yourself to couples.
I'm sold um but i will say you know i've heard single male say that it's challenging for them i had a pretty high success rate well okay i think the ones that are saying it's challenging are probably not as attractive as you and don't have as good a cock as you yeah just be like super i mean i don't mean it to be mean i mean but like you're not overweight you're a good looking guy who takes care of themselves and i think like as a couple like that comes across yeah so i will say yeah so first of all the cock thing so i have about an eight inch cock sorry melissa you shouldn't listen to that like my mom oh geez but yeah i have about an eight inch cock uh i am in decent shape was probably in better shape back then in my bold days than i am now even but uh uh yeah so and i you know i am more of an alpha male dominant type guy which seems to be the type of personality that a lot of the couples that are looking for males are looking for right i agree they're looking for this alpha male with a larger cock to come in and really just kind of rock the wife's world the husband either watches or joins in but that's that that's the persona that they're looking for not to say that's the owner only persona no there probably are others you know i hear bang bang say that he doesn't like the dominant alpha type yeah i mean every couple is going to want to do something different but yeah that was definitely your my niche of the market was the i'm an alpha male with a you know that can come and rock your wife's world kind of thing um and you know i traveled a lot for work at the time and you know if I you know went to a city and and you know moved my profile and messaged couples you know nine out of ten times usually I would get a few couples to respond and you know I was I wouldn't say I was super selective but I you know I wasn't just banging anybody that would message me I tried to pick uh more attractive couples people that I was actually attracted to.
You know, I was somewhat picky, and I had, I'd say I'd have a pretty decent success rate. And because I traveled for work, I tended to travel to the same, you know, half a dozen cities or whatever. So, you know, after a while doing this, I kind of got established couples in each area that, you know, they knew that I traveled for work. And they simply would say, hey, when you're in this area, hit us and we'd love to see you.
And that's kind of how, how I was in the lifestyle and kind of how I, how I did it. Um, but it is, it is challenging. So if you are a single male, if you want to be a bull and I, and I do think like your definition is good. A bull isn't just a single male in the lifestyle.
It really is a kind of that alpha well-endowed type of, you know know a lot of times the bulls come in like with hot wife situations right that is very typical and i should i read the definition of a hot wife yeah you can do that um i will say yeah so a lot of the couples that wanted to play with me they would just the wife would just come it wasn't you know so the typical arrangement was kind of what you were saying is i would message you know, a couple would message me on SLS and they say, hey, yeah, you know, either you messaged us and we're interested or sometimes they would reach out to me without me even messaging them.
We'd switch over to kick a message back and forth for a while. And then generally speaking, the couple would want to meet me at a bar for drinks or maybe at Starbucks for a coffee or something like that.
So I would go, you know, again, guys, if you do this, you do this if they reach out to you and say hey you know can you meet us at five o'clock on wednesday you know if you can't do it because of obligations that's fine but if you say you're going to do it and then you know an hour before you change like it's just going to kill your whole like so would you meet them at the place and then immediately go play or would there be like a setup for later um it wasn't universal but generally speaking no so i would meet them maybe like on a wednesday night yeah and then like on a friday night if that was their thing was just to send the hot wife like to my hotel room or something like that which is often the case for that hot wife thing um you know i'd meet them on a wednesday or thursday night we'd have coffee because you were there traveling you had a hotel right they wanted to make sure everybody was good you know the husband wanted to make sure he trusted me if everything went well then you know that friday or saturday night the wife would come over my hotel room and we would have fun okay so let me say a hot wife is a wife that sets up casual sex date with other men typically she or her date will take photos and send them to the interested couple's husband so that was going to be my next question how often would the husband join like physic not necessarily in the actual act but would physically be there like how often would the wife be sent alone versus i would say the husband would physically be in the room 50 percent the time and would join probably 25 of the time so if the husband didn't come with the wife would you typically send pictures or i know you've done facetime that we just yeah almost always they would the wife would want to take some pictures um you know whatever video of her sucking my dick or a couple pictures of us having sex um there was at least one maybe two couples where the the husband watched yeah at least two couples the husband she you know the wife would just turn her facetime on or facetime them and be like all right baby you ready and she just set the phone up in the corner of the hotel room how did you feel about that i i had no problem with that that's so odd i think i would be like self.
I don't know. Says the girl who had sex at chemistry with 100 people in the room. I know, but that's like a little bit more intimate. I don't know. That's more intimate? Yeah, because it's like just the husband sitting there watching. Is he jerking off? What is he doing? No, it's way easier to forget about it though. She sets that camera down. You start doing your thing and it's like you forget.
I mean when there's a hundred people in the room you look up and you see a hundred people when there's a camera sitting on a nightstand um i guess i i don't know i just it would be hard to know you're doing that some it goes against everything we believe so i don't know why i feel that way i just do moving on so so um what's my next question so tell me just like a quick little bit about like your first couple like you don't have to tell me the whole story but like were you nervous were you just like let's get this show on the road like do you even remember your first couple yeah so i'm trying to so i this is kind of maybe a funny story so i think my very first couple couple, this couple had reached out to me.
And, you know, again, like you, I was very, very new. And so what they had decided was, hey, we just want you to come over our house and rock her world and then leave. You know, they sent pictures and she was very attractive.
And that's the thing is generally speaking, the the guy it didn't matter what the guy looked like for me as long as the wife was hot yeah um so it probably was typical where the husband was you know like not that they weren't attractive but you know they were seeking a young attractive younger yeah this is 10 years well not 10 years ago it was a while ago I was younger then um but anyway so I was like okay cool and and uh so they you know we didn't meet at first but we you know had chatted a bit and i felt comfortable and i think that's maybe a little bit different from a single guy versus a girl is i was pretty comfortable where you know a lot of these couples had busy schedules and they couldn't maybe couldn't meet you know so like yeah they're like sometimes it was you were straight a booty call you come into your thing in your leave so um that's what they wanted funny because like i was like courted like i was looking to dinner and shopping and stuff so it's just so funny to see the difference now for yeah for a bowl you're generally what most couples are looking for is come rock my wife's world and then leave which for a guy that's like the ultimate setup right yeah uh so that's what this couple had said they wanted um so we set a time and date and i showed up promptly on time because i'm i'm good like that and this is where you were the ultimate bull and i was a shitty ass unicorn after this conversation just fyi okay go ahead didn't mean to interrupt so this is where it started getting weird not weird but i think she texted me and said like the kids aren't asleep yet and i don't even think she had mentioned kids up until this point and so then i'm like kids like oh what there's kids in that you know so that threw me off my game a little bit right and i think i had to drive an hour and a half two hours um to get to.
So, you know, after I'm like sitting out in the parking lot and she texts me, he's like, Oh, the kids aren't quite asleep. Can you mind waiting a little bit? And I was like, well, I already drove two hours. So like, I don't know, I guess I ain't turned around going home. So yeah, I'll be here. Text me. And so it wasn't long. It was 10, 15 minutes later. She's like, okay, they're, they're asleep.
You can, you know, like, I think it was like come in the back door and i'll open the door and you know like she comes straight to the bedroom because the dogs don't bark i mean it was kind of an elaborate like way more work than i had anticipated it being so then i get there and i get in the bedroom and i expected the couple to be there and and the guy wasn't there and i was like oh like um is your is your husband not here and she's like no he went to the bar to have a few drinks to like work up to this you know to get ready and i was like um so are we we're waiting for him then is that in there and she's like yeah hold on let me call him so like i'm in the bedroom i've snuck in there's dogs there's kids um she's now calling her husband to tell him that and she's like well he's here and obviously he was like hesitant like he didn't know he probably needed a few right and so he's telling her like well you guys just start like just go ahead and start and she was like no.
And she was like, no, no, like, that's not like I like I want you here. And, you know, like so they're like debating. They obviously did not have their boundaries. Yeah. And I'm just here like I just thought this was going to be like a quick fight. Now I've waited. I drove an hour and a half, two hours. I waited in the parking lot for a half an hour. Now I'm in the bedroom and now I'm waiting for them to figure out what the fuck they got going on, right?
So eventually, they were like, he was like, no, you guys start, and I'll just, like, come in while you're in the thing, and I'll watch. And so she eventually was like, all right, like, he's here, so like, all right, that's what we're going to do.
And so we did, and he was, you know, like, so we started, and I we started and i don't it was a while i mean it was probably 20 30 minutes before he showed up um and then you know he came in and just kind of we were still going at it and he just went and sat in the corner and we kept doing our thing um and then at some point she had tried to get him to join and i think he didn't he didn't want to and then she kind of like not not made him but you know coaxed him in and then he couldn't get hard and then you know i don't and then it kind of ended and i left and went home but that was my very first did you ever play with him again no i think i don't i didn't i don't know i don't know why i didn't i don't think i like blew him off i don't i just don't know maybe I didn't go back there I don't know what happened gotcha it didn't it didn't work out so you asked me so I'm turning the tables around on you did you ever meet with a wife without the husband's permission yes so I'm not alone yeah so and this is why we have non-monogamy folks but to be fair i was sort of tricked into it um so this it was a couple what i thought was a couple on sls and they really were a couple of they were swingers and uh she had reached out to me and said hey we saw her you know when we're interested and uh i was like cool and uh so she was like i'll meet you for drinks and but just you know i think she made it clear it was just going to be her and i was like okay that's you You know, like, I'll meet you for drinks.
And, but just, you know, I think she made it clear it was just going to be her. And I was like, okay, that's, you know, like, cause that's some people do that. Right. And so that's what she said. And so I met her for drinks and then, um, she kept, I think she was like, I have to hurry. And I was like, well, why, what's the hurry?
Like, you know, like, and she's like, well, you know, and it eventually came out like my husband doesn't know i'm here i was like oh and uh didn't stop me though i was about to say hold the phone yeah she was she was super hot she had a fancy car didn't she tell you drive her fancy car she was a doctor yeah like a legitimate doctor and had a nice nice car and i was there for like a week and she would come over to my hotel tomorrow at night and have good times. But yeah.
legitimate doctor and had a nice nice car and i was there for like a week and she would come over to my hotel room at night and have good times but yeah which i'm not like i normally would not have done that but i kind of got tricked into it and then not tricked into it but i just didn't know what i was walking into fully and then once i was there i was like well she's hot as shit i'm here like yeah like that's their you know like and i don't know how you feel but honestly i felt like that's your like that's not on me yeah i felt that way too no i don't like that and had i known i probably most likely would have declined but like if you're lying to your husband and creating drama to come fuck me like that that's between the two of you your problem and i think that's a good thing for couples to realize too that like if that happens in your situation you can't necessarily like if you have a hot ass wife and she's messaging dudes there's not too many dudes on this planet that would be like no you're you're married i'm sorry you're super hot and i want to fuck the shit out of you but and you're trying to fuck me but i'm not going to because you're married like that's just not a realistic expectation.
I could have made better choices in hindsight. But I'm not going to own someone else's part of it. I'm not proud of that. And again, I didn't seek that out. But it did happen to me probably not a lot, one or two times. And I just went with it. Oh, so you're saying you did it more than once. You know, maybe. So what else about being able? I mean, so like unlike me who like it would be sad sometimes because I was alone. I'm sure for a man that was like ideal, right?
I mean, I'm assuming that, but that maybe I should not assume that. Well, so I think you're right.
As goes it is the ideal situation right just to walk in there have amazing hot sex and go home and not have to worry about it but i think you know i never felt like oh man i wish i could stay and cuddle but at the same time just being a single guy um that was you know didn't have a significant other i still had those moments where i went to bed alone at night yeah it's like you know like well it's great having hot sex every weekend but i i do i desired a life partner yeah um and not just random hookups with hot wives you know as fun as that is yeah so um i was gonna ask you another question um and i lost it that's fine that's fine you lost it so i think lessons learned for me yeah that's a good one uh i think are similar to you is is you know make sure you have an understanding of rules and boundaries make sure you understand if this you know this female is allowed to play alone not allowed allowed.
Like, what dynamic you're walking into. Yeah, you know, I've heard of some couples where, like, the husband will, like, message or, like, the guy will require that the husband tell him it's okay to be with the wife alone. Like, I've heard of some people doing that. No, there's, you know, the voice verify thing, right? Like, where the couple will get on the phone, the guy will call in and have, like, a three-way talk. Yeah, like, where the husband's like, it's okay that my wife comes.
right like where the couple will get on the phone the guy will call in and have like a three-way talk and yeah like where the husband's like it's okay that my wife like that's more typical for females i think they want to make the female make sure the female is actually a female but yeah i don't think i ever other than i did have couples where they wanted me to meet me in person yeah but i don't think i ever did like just the voice verify kind of thing yeah sorry go ahead i didn't mean to run lessons learned uh no and that's i think having a clear understanding of rules limits boundaries um i think you know understanding what situation you know if there's kids and dogs and you're sneaking through the backfire escape and you know like really what you know if the couples knew how experienced they are sometimes that's fun though sneaking in that's kind of part of the naughtiness at least for me maybe not for you but no it's yeah i mean anything you know it nobody wants it we all sounds like sluts when we say it but that doing things you're not supposed to do is hot like we i think that's part of the thrill yeah super into that and there is some fun about you know doing that in the lifestyle as well what What else you got?
Okay. I thought of my question. Did you ever encounter any jealous husbands? We heard about my wife situation, but did you, was it all pretty like on the open or? I guess again, like you, without sounding braggy, my cock always became a thing. Yeah.
It's a thing in our relationships like in swinging nowadays so yeah and there definitely were guys when you know i would go to start and you know i whip my dick out and there's guys that even would say like oh well i can't compete with that you know i mean and things like that that just probably killed the vibe it just throws you off your whole game you know and then like the wife's like i don't just like baby yeah so you know i mean yeah what you're supposed to say it comes up with us in swinging all the time where like you know couples will ask her that you know pictures will get sent and you know people start talking about my cock and he's always like why a big deal?
Why do we have to talk about this? It's a good cock. We just, you know, like, I don't know. It is a thing, though. Yeah. You are correct. It's a thing in our, like, swinging situation. So I'd imagine a single guy that it was also a thing. Yeah. And it's even, you know, how many times on TikTok do guys ask, like, how big is your husband's dick? Or, whoa, if, you know, like. But you can't take this nine-inch cock. Or the opposite. Like, you know, I have a small dick.
would you still play with me kind of questions yeah so guys don't get caught up i mean i guess coming from a guy that never has been self-conscious in that area um it's easier to say but i've just wished dick sizes and cocks weren't a thing but yeah they totally seem to be sometimes in the lifestyle they are they are i mean it shouldn't be and to be honest with you like i've said this on lives um there's a there's a use for all sides absolutely yeah that is the answer but yeah but to pretend like it never gets discussed or brought up or you know guys don't compare i guess uh would be a little bit of a false narrative because so any jealousy you felt was around that not necessarily like with the wife well it's interesting there was times where uh but this is more like in couple stuff where i was told like you did that too good or you fucked her you know like like you need to like like not like almost like if if you want to get invited back like you need to fuck her good but not right not too good that he feels right threatened yeah i can see that i can see that with your personality like tone down your your don't fuck her like fuck her good so that she feels good but not so good to where like he feels less than the next day when he's yeah yeah i can get based knowing you i can see that yeah but uh that's as you know like for me that's it's either on or off switches on or off it's hard for me to in that moment tone it down i guess yeah which is partly why i love you yeah that's it i don't i think i told enough stories yeah i feel like you're a better bull than i was this unicorn guys i am the ultimate unicorn i don't care what my stories say i swear well i think we're similar you know what we should do is should interview people that we were like bulls and bring them back yeah and see if we were ultimate bulls and unicorn i don't know if that's a good idea we've actually played with a couple that can be like a little twist on this we played with a couple that i was a unicorn i think that's kind of a good way to tie it all up um there was a couple that we i was very attracted to and and he had seen pictures you know just on my phone of the wife and um he always called her barbie even though she doesn't even Thank you.
that we I was very attracted to and and he had seen pictures you know just on my phone of the wife and um he always called her Barbie even though she doesn't even have blonde hair I don't know where the Barbie came from because she looks like a Barbie doll like she's me and her look a lot of light you do so um and I actually was like hey I have this couple that I played with as a single would you be interested in playing with them together together? And we did.
We played with them a couple of times. Which, yeah. Normally we said we're just not going to do that. Yeah. Just because, you know, I think the dynamic of playing as a single with a couple is different than the dynamic of couple on couple. Yeah. And because you do have some of that relationship with that couple as a single more so than you would as a couple, we tried to avoid that.
But a great experience she showed me pictures of her and i was like yeah we're doing this um they're a great couple no objections they're local to me um we enjoyed them we have to send them this podcast so they can hear it um but that's the only couple that we played with together um that i had previously played with alone and it worked out great yeah absolutely they're amazing okay so let's talk about us for a second now we're a couple now we're married do we play with singles do we play with unicorns and bulls um we've tried the single or playing separately thing we failed we know that we talked about that episode two i think yeah um but we've actually never played we've never me and you have never had a threesome we've never had a threesome that's correct that's crazy damn oh we haven't fixed that so we have tried to find females like we said in the beginning of the podcast tinder after this and finally and we've failed like we just have never found anyone i am not super eager Thank you.
tried to find females like we said in the beginning of the podcast tinder after this and we've failed like we just have never found anyone i am not super eager to play with a single male or bull honestly because dan is pretty dominant i mean you've heard his whole story and it would be hard for me to imagine i wouldn't want a guy to come in and be less than you but also can't imagine a guy coming in and being more than you so the dynamic just doesn't sound appealing to me i just not that i don't want to give you that experience um because i mean honestly i'm a super sexually open person and you know want to try everything once i just am not that kind of guy to sit in the corner and watch no no not at all you would have to be doing i wouldn't so the only way i would do it is if you were because i feel like that would be kind of hot you just be like two guys just like all over you yeah um i wouldn't want you to sit in the corner i wouldn't want it to be like a hot wife situation but i can't imagine a guy coming in to match a level for it to be i don't think't think they'd have to.
In my mind, they kind of do. In your mind, they do? Yeah. But, I mean, like, we've talked about this prior to this episode. I'm down for it. Like, I'm kind of like, I would like to experience a unicorn and a bull. Like, I would like to do both just so, you know, it's for science, y'all.
It it's for the podcast it's on our to-do list so uh unicorns definitely reach out bowls will will find you find you but yeah I mean I'm I'm down with it it's just not something that we actively look for no no it's not we should invite a bowl over and make some only fans content though that's not a bad idea they would totally let us record yeah no i think i think finding a guy to record with would be pretty you could probably do it in five minutes on tinder yeah so yeah so we've never done that applications accepted you're gonna get so many dude it's gonna be ridiculous if anybody messages us i always just say messages on sls or sec and truth be told you're messaging me you're messaging dan it's just an easy way for me to link Thank you.
Anybody messages us, I always just say, message us on SLS or SEC. And truth be told. You're messaging me. You're messaging Dan. It's just an easy way for me to link and not have to deal with it. Yeah. So, what do you think? Do you want to go back to being a unicorn? No. Do you miss your unicorn days? No.
I wish I had the opportunity to do a better job, especially after this podcast really down about myself however i love being in a i love the couple atmosphere way more or dynamic whatever you call it way more than i do the unicorn yeah no i feel like i'm a partner yeah i agree i do miss the where it's just wham bam thank you thank you, ma'am. Because you don't get that with couples. Let's roll pay. Okay. Let's do it tonight. You're going to roll out, wife? Yeah, tonight. Let's do it. Okay.
Okay, my husband's at work. This works all the time, baby. Just come and be her. Yeah. I got you. We're doing that tonight. Okay. It's science. We'll report back on that one. My point of that was you don't get. We haven't had sex in like 48 hours. Can you do? 24, 24 hours. You don't get that experience. You know, couples, there definitely is more of a, you know, it's not just straight to business. Usually you work up to it and build up to it. And there's all the, you know, the awkwardness. Yeah.
But also, I feel like I get enough of that experience still when we swap and swap yeah it's just a different it's different yeah but yeah i agree uh that's it you want to go over our email uh yeah but it's it's on the recorder right now so do you remember her name i don't brie oh yes so brie so brie reached out to us so we don't have a uh recap of week. The only thing we really could say is that Lacey's Snapchat. My Snapchat got taken down. I mean, y'all know we're recording these a few minutes.
Right. So, we can get caught up. But, yeah. We're getting ahead for Hedo. So, literally our last episode was like two days ago. So, we don't really have much for a week in review. But my Snapchat did get taken down. So, again, had to start over. I was on TikTok. I got banned from a live. I was literally, except for nudity, and I had a t-shirt and shorts on in a parking lot while Dan was getting a haircut. So there was no nudity. So that's the story of our lives. That's not the last time.
You're going to hear that every podcast. Yeah. We're going to be banned on some platform. We're always banned on something. In some way or another. For some reason this week, the haters have been like really after us all. Like our whole group. It kind of comes like that. Like I feel like we'll have like a few days where we're all taken down and brought back up and taken down. And then like a week will go by and there's nothing. And then all of a sudden it all happens again.
So we're just on that wave of.
If you're listening, leave us alone, listening leave us alone guys just leave us alone we don't want to fuck your husbands no yeah because you know it's some ugly woman who's like thank you but real real quick to wrap this up we did get a sweet email from brie uh and brie was the one on tiktok that had was it tiktok i think it was tiktok she, uh, when we asked for questions for our Q and a podcast, she had reached out and said something to the effect of how do you deal with STDs?
Um, and especially at places like secrets, which Brie, that was a, you know, that was a completely relevant question. I thought she said on the live, I, I might've read it wrong. I thought she said either. I think, i think she felt like i was offended and honestly we have we are defensive when we're on these loves because nine times out of ten the questions are coming in and they are people that are trying to be mean like there's the person that's like well you're STD. It's that person.
So Brie, first of all, I'm sorry if I felt offended or defensive. Just know it's because we are literally in that defensive mode all the time.
And I don't think, I don't remember where we picked her question from, but I can remember when I read her question, I personally felt like it was a genuine question and not one that was her trying to imply that we were dirty and you know so brie we when we said that when people ask questions about stds that they're it seems like they're doing it to you know jab at us or or insinuate that we're knee-jerk reaction i think people that do ask questions like that are i don't we weren't talking about you seem like you're a very sweet lady.
We appreciate Brie listening to all our episodes. Did we answer her question, or does she still need an answer? No, I think we answered it. Oh, okay. I think we answered it. I think she was just reaching out to say, like, if we offended you guys, we're sorry. Oh, well, Brie, thank you. Yeah, thank you, Brie. You didn't offend us. Oh, we get offended every day. We offend everyone. If Lexi got offended. Yeah, we are on the defensive on some of these things.
Just because you have so many people coming at you, it's hard to not be that way. It's true. But all right. I think in the interest of time, we need to wrap this up. Okie dokie. You got anything else for the Swing Nation? I don't. The Nation of Swingers. We appreciate you guys listening to this podcast. The numbers and the amount of downloads have just been exploding. Yes, in our reviews. Thank you. We got an email. I don't know if it's a real email, but it's in somewhere. What was our ranking?
17th. 17th in the sexuality subject. Yeah. If that's true, it was a random email from somebody I don't even know.
I think they were trying to get us to buy analytics for a podcast or something but if those numbers are correct that's ridiculous we also got invited to a sex positive podcast palooza right but i think it's gonna yeah we have a lot going on but i told him i was like we don't know how they got our information or anything um that's like even we were invited to be like hosts you have to apply so we don't know if we would get approved but even that we were thought of to be in that category yeah that's like really like touching to be honest with you moving in the right direction so anyway we appreciate all you guys thanks for listening stay tuned we got more episodes coming at you i promise because we're recording them all right now um and uh looking Hedo, right?
Yeah, we're so close. We'll stay in touch and you guys can follow us along our journey. You know, all the emails, all the ways of getting in contact with us will be in the show notes. And please reach out. We love getting emails, love getting messages on TikTok and Snapchat. Keep those five-star reviews coming and message Lacey if you do that.
And we'll say thank you in a special way yeah because we do appreciate all the support anything else that's it all right so in a world full of apples be a pineapple be a pineapple guys bye thank you if you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us leave a five-star review wherever you're listening if you want to see more of our content you can find links to snapchat twitter instagram only Thank you.
If you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us, leave a five-star review wherever you're listening. If you want to see more of our content, you can find links to Snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, OnlyFans, and more in the show notes. Come join the conversation with us and other Swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server. If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingnation at gmail.com.
Make sure you head on over to theswingnation.net and keep up to date on all things swing nation we thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you next time goodbye
