Ep. 57: Cat Out of the Bag?

Transcript

the following podcast contains adult content including adult language i talk openly about sex and other adult topics if you are under the age of 18 or are uncomfortable listening to sexually explicit narratives please listen no further i am not a professional therapist counselor or doctor i'm just an average guy in the swinger lifestyle who likes to share his experiences. This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. Please seek a professional if you are in need of guidance or care as it relates to sexual health or alternative lifestyles.

Hi again, and welcome to Evan Swings, a lifestyle podcast from a guy's perspective. I'm your host, Evan. Thank you so much for listening today. To any new listeners out there, quick little background on me. My wife, Eva, and I have been in the lifestyle for almost four and a half years now. It has been quite the adventure, quite the fun adventure, I must say, uh, I decided to do this little podcast to share our experiences, to entertain and inform. I always say, just remember I'm not an expert. I'm just an average guy. Uh, Eva is just an average gal.

Uh, we're an average late 40s lifestyle couple. And I hope you find this podcast, like I said, entertaining and informative. Returning listeners, thank you as always for supporting the show. Really appreciate it. Before I get into the main topic of this week's episode, I wanted to touch on one of the subjects I discussed in a recent episode, two episodes back. It was the episode that I called Let's Get Uncomfortable because I wanted to discuss some topics that I felt aren't talked about openly enough. STIs, ED, penis size, and of course, buttholes.

Listeners, look, I don't receive all that many messages, okay? I mean, I welcome communication with my listeners. I state my social media handles and email address at the end of every episode. But I honestly don't really get all that many. Well, that episode stirred up something because I got three messages about it now three might not seem like a lot to you but after 56 episodes this being episode 57 I have received messages from I would say less than two dozen people okay? So to get three messages about the content of a specific episode, that's a lot for me.

So I want to address some of this butthole backlash, as I call it. Let me read this first message to you. Dear Evan, I love the show, but you are way off about something I heard you talk about today. Buttholes are sacred. They are supposed to be the most private part of our bodies. That is why they are off limits during playdates. I have to be very comfortable with a person before I let them, uh, it says tough. I think, I think they meant touch before I let them touch mine. And you absolutely need permission to do so that was one.

Um, I won't mention their name for privacy, but, but this next one actually gave me permission. So tangled and twisted 27 wrote, Hey, Evan, do you know what comes out of our backsides? Do you know how much bacteria can get on your fingers by simply touching an anusalled for, So I'm not even going to go into that one. But let me just reiterate here, okay? I was not advocating for women to be more receptive to anal play. I was not trying to convince anyone to change their rules about anal play.

I was simply stating that I found it interesting that buttholes were treated the way that they're treated. Seemingly, as the only body part, you need specific, explicit permission to touch when you engage in a full swap. When you do that, you get naked and you touch and kiss and caress and lick anywhere. Just not the butthole. At least not me. I just found it interesting. That's all. And perhaps my thoughts on it are simply a reflection of the people that I've been with, the people that I've played with. Maybe other people feel differently.

Maybe other people out there have had way different experiences than I have. Maybe the people I played with would be open to anal play. But I'm, you know, hesitant to ask. And I'm certainly not going to to to touch without without permission. I just don't feel all that comfortable asking for permission. So I guess I should say this, ladies, if you want a guy to touch or lick back there, please ask, all right? Most of us guys are going to follow the unwritten, unspoken rule where we avoid down there unless we have been given permission otherwise.

And I have to say, it would be an absolute huge turn on for a woman to ask me to engage in anal play with her and and i'm just speaking from my experience okay this is how this is how i feel and how a few other guys i've spoken to about it in the lifestyle how they feel. It is admittedly a very small sample size, and I could be way off here, totally admitting that. But I'm just sharing my honest thoughts about it with you. And again, I never intended my discussion about the topic to be a persuasive piece. I wasn't trying to convince women to be more open to anal play.

It was simply an observation that I found interesting. One of those, you know, have you ever noticed type things. So I'm sorry. I apologize if I offended anyone out there. Obviously not my intention. I try to be as open and honest as I can with this podcast. And sometimes, you know, you just, you may hear things you don't agree with. Or, you know, maybe you're uncomfortable with. Considering the nature of my narratives that I talk about here, I would actually expect that to occur. I would expect, um, some listeners to be uncomfortable. I hope not, but I, but I kind of expect it.

The important thing to understand is that while we are all in the lifestyle, we're all different. We have different rules, different desires, different turn-ons, different approaches to the lifestyle. The important thing is to respect those differences. Appreciate those differences. In my opinion, that's one of the things that makes the lifestyle such a wonderful place. So many differences, and we could all be accepting of them. It's a judgment-free environment. Okay, one more quick thing before I get into my main topic.

I have to admit that I was hoping to do, soon, another episode about my friend, Poison Ivy. Now, you may recall from episodes 50 and 51 that I had been lucky enough to find a woman to have a solo play date with. And I called her Ivy because she had to cancel our first date due to a bout with Poison Ivy. We ended up rescheduling that for a few days later and had a very enjoyable date. That was back in July. And it is currently November right now. I was hoping that it was the start of an ongoing occasional thing. You know, I wasn't looking to find someone to meet every week.

But, you know, every couple months maybe maybe all signs pointed to that in fact i had a great time she said she had a great time and i believed her uh she kept mentioning doing it again um you know we stayed in touch and she kept mentioning it. I'd hoped to do a ivy part three episode but unfortunately now that doesn't seem to be in the cards it doesn't look like that is ever going to happen it's looking like that was a one and done unfortunately since july we have been staying in touch.

Um, a lot of times, you know, I would, I would suggest another date, you know, like, uh, give her some options like, Hey, how about next Saturday or next Friday or whatever? Um, but every time I suggested another date, she would come up with a new excuse. Too much work, not in a good state of mind, under too much stress. But she kept chatting with me. So in my mind, her excuses were legit. Or else, you know, why would she keep talking to me? Just, you know, say, sorry, I'm no longer interested. It was fun, but goodbye.

or even just, you know say sorry I'm no longer interested it was fun but goodbye or even just you know stop sending me messages but nothing like that you know she she told me um fairly recently how the next time we got together she wanted me to tie her up and enjoy her you don't, you don't say something like that to someone who you don't plan to see again, do you? My last message from her was about two weeks ago. She told me that she was trying to work through some things with her boyfriend. And so she felt she should not be focusing on any non-monogamous play right now.

I told her I understood, I would give her her space, and I was a text message away if she ever wanted to get together again. And that was the last I heard from her. Looking back on the whole experience, I now believe that she was using me to get back at her boyfriend. She mentioned to me once that she caught him cheating on her and lying to her. So my theory is she was using me. You know, maybe I was a revenge fuck. Maybe she wanted to get even with him for sleeping with someone else. So she felt the best way to do that was to sleep with someone else herself. I don't know.

That's what I'm going with. Now, there have been times since July where we have gone long stretches without communicating. And I told Eva, I thought I would never hear from her again. And she has surprised me.

She's, you know, sent me a long layoff but this seems different you know and it's a bummer because I was I was really hoping to find a quote-unquote permanent solo partner that I could meet with occasionally and Ivy was kind of like a perfect situation because she lived two towns over so it wasn't very far but yet not too close so I thought that was really convenient but unfortunately it looks like I'm back to square one again kind of a bummer.

Of course, if anything changes and anything interesting happens with this, I will definitely let you know because I would still love to one day make a Poison Ivy Part 3 episode. I think that would be a lot of fun. All right, now on to my main topic for today, discretion. Discretion is of the utmost importance to Eva and myself. I mean, I would say it's important for at least 90% of everyone in the lifestyle. Not many people out there, at least who we have met, are openly swingers. like, you know, um, you know, open to their family, uh, coworkers, um, vanilla friends. Discretion is key.

It is important for me, especially since I'm a teacher. I feel like, I feel like my reputation is at stake and, and at stake and my school board and my school's administration, that they would not look kindly knowing one of their teachers openly admitted he was a swinger. It's important for Eva as well as a small healthcare business owner. Her reputation is at stake as well. She and I both agree that she would lose a lot of clients if it became a well-known fact that we were in the lifestyle. She works with a lot of children as well.

Parents with strict morals were sure, were totally sure would frown upon their son or daughter working with someone they knew was a swinger. It goes back. Honestly, it goes back to my very first episode that I've ever done on this podcast. There is a negative stigma in the vanilla world surrounding the lifestyle. It is not looked at as a harmless hobby or like a trivial way of life. A lot of people, especially deeply religious people, view it as evil. Like it's a sin. It is not the Christian way of life.

Whether you agree with that or not, hopefully you do agree that most lifestyle couples like to keep their involvement in it private. It is especially important for parents, like Eva and myself, we're parents. It is not exactly something we want to be very open about with our children. Now, it was more important when we first got into the lifestyle. Because now, our kids are older. Two of them are in their 20s, and one is 18. They're adults. Two have moved out of our house permanently.

It was a much bigger deal when they were in junior high and high school if it were public knowledge that their mom and dad were swingers i can i could just imagine the horrible things that would be said to them at school and how, how bad or how embarrassed they would feel. Kids can be mean. Kids can be ruthless. I'm a teacher. I see it every day. But now that our kids are, you know, our kids are older, we're less concerned.

You know, we've, we've taken the position of, we don't want them to find out but if they do oh well not a big deal but the key there is okay we don't want them to find out okay we um we have lived our lives though um in the lifestyle that they could find out, but we just hope they wouldn't. Our sons could very easily get curious one day, excuse me, and hop on an app or a site that we use and stumble onto our profile. Then it's game over. Game over right there. No turning back at that point. And Eva and I, honestly, we're fine with it. Okay? It is a risk we are willing to take.

And something that if they do find out about it someday, we're okay with it. We hope that they would respect our decision. They may find it icky to think of their parents doing something like that, but hopefully they will be mature enough to respect it. We like to think that, you know, we would be very sex positive about it. You know, we them like it was a normal thing. Being in the lifestyle was a normal thing. Sex is a normal thing. It is natural. But all that said, we still would prefer to keep it a secret from them.

But the walls surrounding that secret seemed to come crashing down recently. It all started so innocently. A friend of mine, a vanilla friend who I trust, and he knows about our involvement in the lifestyle, I'll call him Wayne, he sent me a video on Facebook. It was a humorous video of a young woman, probably in her early 20s. And it was her reaction to discovering her parents were swingers. So I wrote him back with some laughing emojis and said something like, yeah, I hope that day never comes for us. And he responded that he thought my kids already knew.

Well, I was very surprised to hear him say this and asked why he thought that. He then told me that our mutual friend, Trey, was the one who mentioned it to him. And I was suddenly very confused. I can count on one hand the number of vanilla friends who know that we are in the lifestyle and Trey is not one of them. How the hell did Trey find out?

Wayne explained that one day he thought he remembered It just happened to come up in conversation and Trey told Wayne that our kids knew we were swingers and in fact one of our sons was the one who told Trey about it like one of our sons told Trey that his parents were swingers. I was very, very confused. I never told Trey about our involvement in the lifestyle. We've been pretty careful about keeping it a secret from our kids. It, I mean, it was entirely possible they discovered our secret, But why would one of them tell an adult friend of ours who who he doesn't even know very well?

I mean, put put yourself in in in a kid's shoes, OK? Or, you know, if you have if you have kids, put yourself in their shoes. Would you want to go around telling random people that your parents are swingers? Doesn't make sense. Let's do this. shoes would you want to go around telling random people that your parents are swingers doesn't make sense not exactly a topic you would be proud of or or even be comfortable discussing not exactly a revelation you you know you would want make. I would say not even to close friends, certainly not acquaintances. And that's all Trey is to us and my kids.

I was, it just didn't make sense. Okay. Why, why would you reveal a, dare I say, embarrassing fact about your parents to an acquaintance? I was just very perplexed. But I just explained to Wayne that, you know, we figured this could happen one day. We knew it was always a risk. Eva and I don't really care that they know. But we certainly don't want them spreading it to others. The whole town could know in a short amount of time because people have big mouths. Well, I figured that was the end of it. Until Wayne texted me again about 15 minutes later.

He included a screenshot of a conversation he was having with Trey. He had texted Trey and asked, didn't you tell me one day that Evan told you that his kids know they're swingers? Trey responded with, Evan didn't tell me. His son told me, lol. So, that kind of explained it a little bit. I was ready to let it go, but I figured I needed to tell Eva about it. So I explained my conversation with Wayne and showed her the texts. She was just as confused as I was. Why is our son of all people telling others, people that he hardly knows that his parents are swingers?

Not exactly a piece of information I would want to share publicly if I was a kid. We decided it would be best if we confronted our son about it. If he was, in fact, telling people this, we needed to put a stop to it. Like I said, we live in a small town. Word travels fast. And he works at a restaurant. lots of lots of coworkers and customers with ears ready to just absorb racy rumors and mouths ready to spread rumors throughout the town.

OMG, okay, let me just say that if we were to have recorded a video of us having this conversation with our son, I hate to brag, but it could be used in an educational setting when, uh, or where there was a discussion about how to be tactful, like, like some kind of, uh, like swinger seminar, because, you know, I hate to brag, but Eva was downright brilliant when it came to Thank you. Like some kind of a swinger seminar. Because, you know, I hate to brag, but Eva was downright brilliant when it came to carefully choosing words. She did most of the talking.

We never actually admitted to being in the lifestyle. Things were said like, why are you telling Trey that we are swingers and then things like rumors like that can severely damage our reputations and our careers and eva added something like um you know if people started believing crazy rumors about us the next thing you know we're the couple couple that have kidnapped people and chain them up in our basement. Now, our son is a liar. I hate to say it, but he has lied to us so many times and convincingly so. But in this case, we were kind of inclined to believe him.

He stated that Trey was the one who told him that we were swingers. So we're not actually sure who is telling the truth, Trey or our son, or, you know, how it got out. I mean, did Wayne slip sometime? Did Wayne actually accidentally mention to Trey that we're swingers? Did it happen to come out in conversation accidentally, and he just forgot about it? Who knows?

But, you know, we're kind of inclined to believe our son here and to be honest we don't care it's not like it's not like we're desperate to get to the bottom of it you know and solve this mystery what was said was said doesn't matter who started it but what does matter is that we squashed the discussion because there is one other rumor our son heard that i will explain and I'll see in a moment. OK, we asked our son to, again, consider our careers, you know, his parents' careers and, you know, ask him to please shoot down any rumors he hears about us, especially where he works.

So at this point, he does not know for sure that we are in the lifestyle. Or does he? You know, I mean, who knows? We could have slipped somewhere. He could have found my notes on this computer. Because, you know, I keep my notes for this podcast on the computer. Could have found that. He could have stumbled across our profile on one of the sites. We don't know. Now, let's actually admitted it. Our words were chosen very carefully. I guess the best way to say is that we never confirmed or denied it. So we were truthful, but we just never confirmed or denied it.

So not sure what our son believes at this point. But I did want to share, like I said, I wanted to share one other thing he told us, a rumor that he said. He said that he was also told that Wayne and his wife, that they're frequent sex partners of ours. I was like, where the hell did that come from?

Someone decided to assume that two vanilla friends of ours frequently had sex with us when they assumed based on rumors that Eva and I were swingers that just came out of left field so Eva and I we felt that we felt we had to contact Wayne and just you know let him know that that these rumors about him and his wife were circulating and he was he was very cool about it I mean as I expected him to be he said something like um there's been worse rumors about me and then he kind of joked and said that's a rumor I could really get behind you know total you know total joking way of course but I felt kind of bad even though it wasn't my fault at all that one of the very few vanilla friends who i have told about our involvement in the lifestyle was kind of thrown under the bus kind of uh thrown into the mix of rumors with his wife now obviously the rumors surrounding ev and myself are true.

But he and his wife certainly have no part in it at all. As I must say, Wayne and his wife are very attractive people. So it's kind of flattering in a way, to be honest, that people would think that they would actually have sex with us. I mean, very flattering. So where do we stand after all this? Well, first of all, there is a lesson to be learned here.

No matter how hard you try to be discreet, you can always try harder harder and no matter how hard you try there may always be a leak there's there's always going to be a risk now even I do a certain amount to hide our identities online on these lifestyle sites but being very honest it's not a whole lot we know the risks we have profiles on several apps and sites our profile pic does not show our faces but since we feel very strongly that physical attraction plays a huge part in finding friends with benefits in the lifestyle, like finding play partners.

We also feel that it's necessary to include some face pics in our profile. If you see our main picture, like our main photo, and decide you are interested in seeing more, well, you can simply click and more pics will show up including ones with our faces but if you're just scanning through profiles swiping left and right as they say you won't see our faces pop right you know pop right out out at you you have to dig but only through a very thin top layer. We also hide our location. We live about 30 minutes outside of Dayton, Dayton, Ohio, but all our profiles say we live in Dayton.

So anyone searching through profiles specifically based in our hometown will not find us. Is that foolproof? Absolutely not. No way. Like I said, we have a thin layer of security for discretion, but we understand that there are risks. Risks of being discovered.

Our thought, though, is that anyone looking on these sites are usually swingers themselves therefore if they're going to out us they have to out themselves too we have heard about swingers and you know others in the lifestyle putting profiles on uh mainstream dating sites like uh hinge and uh tinder we draw the line there that that is way too public for us We'll see you next time.

sites like uh hinge and uh tinder we draw the line there that that is way too public for us i'm sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that if we put our profile on a mainstream dating site someone we know would see us easily quickly we are not willing to take that much risk. A lifestyle friend of ours was actually able to find a solo play partner by using Hinge and really talked it up like he loved it. I would love to try something like that. But again, this friend of mine, he isn't a teacher. This friend doesn't own a small local business.

This friend doesn't work with a client or a customer base that involves kids and their parents. Eva and I don't feel that is an option for us. My point is, we do some things to cover our butts. We try to be discreet to a degree. But there are different degrees of discretion. And admittedly, Eva and I are on the lighter end of it. If you put it in prison terms, we are a minimum security prison. We are a minimum security situation. There are plenty of others out there who do the maximum security thing. They don't put any face pics at all. Their profiles are bare minimum.

You have to specifically engage with them to find out what they look like, where they live, what their ages are, things like that. Eva and I understand that, but we also hate wasting our time. We don't want to engage with people whom we have no idea about their appearance. Now, back in the early days of our lifestyle involvement, we ran into that a lot until I learned.

I would, um, I would talk with couples, you know, uh, couples who expressed interest in us you know we would chat back and forth then you know they didn't have any face pics and then when they finally revealed themselves Eva and I discovered we were not attracted to them physically so it was a huge waste of time and then I had to awkwardly tell them that we were no longer interested. And these people aren't stupid, okay? They must realize that we don't find them attractive since, you know, we were having fun conversations and then our interest ended the moment we saw what they looked like.

So Eva and I want to avoid that awkwardness as well. And we want those interested in us to not have to waste their time either. Click on our profile. See some face pics. Decide if you are interested. Easy peasy. But now going back to my main topic. Is the cat out of the bag? My son is a damn good liar. He is. He may know that his parents are swingers. He's a smart kid. I'm not sure if he bought what we told him again even though we never confirmed or denied at this point in our lives though we don't care we we really don't if our kids discover our involvement in the lifestyle that.

Hopefully, it will continue to reinforce the idea that as humans, we should accept differences. People may have a different religion than you. So what? You accept them. People may have a different sexual orientation than you. So what? You accept them. People may have a different sexual orientation than you. So what? You accept them. People may have a different socioeconomic status than you. So what? You accept them. And some people like to fuck each other's spouses. So what? You accept them. It doesn't affect you in any way. All we ask is that you keep your mouth shut about it and move on.

Hopefully, our kids feel the same way and will go on with their lives. And, you know, we won't hear about it again. If they believe we are swingers, hopefully they accept it as a life choice we have made happily as consenting adults. And that's it. And if they ever ask us about it, we'll be honest. We'll tell them the truth. But again, is that something you really want to have a discussion with your parents about? Mom, dad, do you guys fuck other people? I mean, I just, not, not, I, I contend that my parents had sex three times ever each time resulting in a pregnancy as I have two siblings.

Now I'm not being serious about, about that. Okay. But, but my parents' sex life is something I have no desire whatsoever to think about ever. I would assume most people feel the same way. Therefore, I would find it very surprising if any of our kids ever confronted us about being swingers. So we press on. We continue to use a moderate level of discretion. We continue to be secretive in our lifestyle business. If we slip, and it is very possible we will. It is very possible we already have. But if we slip again, well, we'll have to come clean. So far, we have avoided questions like that.

Like, why is your backseat covered with glitter? Why are there condoms in your drawer? Why is your bra in the driveway? Yes, Eva dropped her bra in our driveway after arriving home from a trip to the club recently. Why do you have a pineapple ring or a pineapple necklace? These are all questions we have avoided, but would not be super surprised if our kids were thinking it. If they end up saying it, like I said, Eva and I are prepared, ready to accept our cover being blown. As long as they keep their mouth shut and don't spread the info around town, we're fine with it.

As long as we maintain our reputation and our careers, we are fine with it. Our lives will go on happily. And that's going to do it for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you got something out of it, even if it was just a little entertainment. I would be very interested to hear from any listeners out there who have actually told their children and what their reactions were. And how did it affect your family dynamic? If you'd like to chat with me about that, maybe provide some data for a future episode.

Or if you just have any other questions, comments, thoughts, or suggestions that you'd like to share with me, please feel free to reach out. You can find me on Blue Sky by searching for Evan Swings. Or you can find me on Instagram at Evan Deenson. That's E-V-A-N-D-E-A-N-S-O-N. Or kick. I'm also on kick even though I hate using kick now, but I still check it once in a while. Or you can always send me an email at evandeenson at gmail.com. I would love to hear from you. I will hopefully be back again in two weeks with another episode. Hope you will tune in again. Until then, be safe. Be wild.

We only get one life. So live it to the fullest. Take care, everyone.