Send us Fan MailThe Swing Nation PodcastLifestyle Interview: STIs Sexual Health with Guest Dr. Angela Stoehr | Episode 63In this swinger podcast episode, Dan and Lacy take a deep dive into the unique healthcare concerns that lifestyle people face with gynecologist and medical expert Dr. Angela Stoehr. They try to make sense of all the misinformation concerning swingers and STIs. If you want to learn how to be a responsible Lifestyle person when it comes to engaging in sex, then you want to listen to this episode of The Swing Nation Podcast. Feminine Curosities with Dr. StoehrSwinging Safe - Dr. Stoehr_______________- The Swing Nation -Main WebsiteQuick Navigation Website: -- (Find all our social media links more!)Follow us on Facebook!The Podcast Website_______________ - Swinger Society -Our Website to meet, connect eventsSwinger Society DiscordOur Facebook Group_______________ - Swinger Websites -SDCUsername: TheSwingNation** Use code 36313 for 14 days free! **SLSUsername: NorthernGuynSouthernGirl_______________ - Merch More -The Swing Nation MerchThe Swinger Pride FlagsSwinger Society Merch_______________ - Lacy’s Fun Links -VIP OnlyFansPREMIUM OnlyFans_______________ -- THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS --Shameless Care: ED Medication and at home STD testingUse Code TSN at checkout for $30 off your order!Promescent® Make Love Longer, It’s Time for Great SexUse Code SwingNation for 5% off!Pinaq Liqueur; The Official Drink of The Swing NationUse Code TSN at checkout for 15% off!Non-monogamy Couples Course and Single Guy Mastery CourseUse Code ATLANTA for 50% off!- Thank you for the support! -
Transcript
This podcast is intended for adult audiences. Over the age of 18, it contains adult language and situations. The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this podcast belong solely to us, and not of any employer, organization, committee, or other group or individuals. This podcast is not intended to be taken as professional advice.
Welcome to the Swing Nation podcast, a podcast by swingers for swingers, where we look to educate others and push back on the negative stigmas and misconceptions associated with our lifestyle. Come with us and share our pineapple journey as we travel the globe, interview the experts, learn and grow together. Join the nation. Most people have unprotected oral sex, right? Be honest. Now think about your last STD test.
Did your doctor tickle your throat with something that looked like a giant Q-tip? Probably not. Yet, that's the only way to check for oral gonorrhea or chlamydia, which are often asymptomatic. You need a better doctor. You need shamelesscare.com. Use coupon code TSN at checkout. So, Lacey, people are asking, how do they get to go to a party or an event with us? They check out swingersociety.net. You create a profile, you sign up for an event, and you come hang out with us. It's super easy.
That's right. If you want to party with us and the other faces and names that you know from social media and TikTok, head on over to swingersociety.net. Can't wait to see you there. Lacey, we get approached by couples all the time, and they want to know, like, where can they learn the one-on-ones of non-monogamy? Yeah, I totally get it. You want to get in the lifestyle, but you just don't know where to start. We recommend Sex by Sue's class on non-monogamy.
She really helps couples learn how to communicate and do the lifestyle the correct way. Yeah, I think this lifestyle, you know, it's crucial not to step on the landmines that a lot of us do. Yeah. And you kind of learn the hard way, you know. So having a class that you can take online, you know, in the privacy of your own home and kind of learn the ins and outs, learn, you know, how to approach the lifestyle, how to communicate with your partner about it.
You know, I think it's something worth taking and we highly recommend it. Yeah. So I'll see you next time. home and kind of learn the ins and outs, learn, you know, how to approach the lifestyle, how to communicate with your partner about it. You know, I think it's something worth taking and we highly recommend it. Yeah. So click below in the show notes, you'll find this link for that course. Check it out guys. Bye. hey there pineapple people and welcome to the Swing Nation podcast.
We are your hosts, Northern Guy and Southern Girl. In today's podcast, we have a special guest with us today, Dr. Storr. She's a gynecologist specializing in pelvic and sexual pain and sexual dysfunction. Her and her husband are actually members of the lifestyle and both very passionate about making sure that people in the lifestyle are able to obtain And I think that's what I'm talking about. sexual pain and sexual dysfunction.
Her and her husband are actually members of the lifestyle and both very passionate about making sure that people in the lifestyle are able to obtain the highest levels of healthcare without fear of prejudices or bias, which when I read your bio, Dr. Story, I was like, man, that lines up so well with all the things that we're trying to do here at the Swing Nation podcast. So we appreciate you joining us and welcome. Dan and Lacey, such an honor. Thank you so much for having me here.
And so usually the way we like to kick it off here, especially when we get new people on the podcast, is kind of the way most lifestyle people start conversations is we would like to talk a little bit about your origin story since you are somebody in the lifestyle. So how did you get involved in? Um, you know, I guess I would assume did that come first or were you a doctor and then got involved and how, how did all that work out?
Actually, my husband and I were together for 10 years in monogamous before we even thought about this. And I was a doctor even before we got married. So I've, I've been a doctor for a hot minute. Um, it's actually kind of a funny story guess, of course, everybody, I assume, thinks their story is a little funny. I was at a conference several years back. It's commonly known as ISWISH, but it's the International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health.
And this conference is super fun with a lot of people that are all sexual specialists. And one of the days at that conference that year, there was a full half day committed to non-traditional sexual lifestyles. And I took a couple of screenshots and sent them to my husband as kind of a nudge nudge. One of them was about the likelihood of children in polygamous relationships having actually higher social ability scores and being well-adjusted.
And then the other one was about pornography, oddly enough, about adult pornography not being dangerous for sexual functioning. And neither one of us said anything about it for over six months. So my husband, I think not that it was a trap of some nature. In fact, he says that, but at a date night, about six months later, he brought a sexual interest questionnaire on date night. And so we both filled it out. And one of the questions was, have you ever been interested in a threesome?
And both of us were brave enough to be honest about it. And that's, that's kind of where it started. That's awesome. Isn't that where most people start though, if you think about it, because the threesome is so, it's so sexually like accepted. So I think a lot of people feel safe to say they want to have a threesome. I think it's definitely more sexually appropriate to talk about a threesome than to talk about like an orgy. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
So, so you had that conversation, realized you were both interested and then you found your way to the lifestyle or, I mean, you went to a local club or like how did, what did it look like starting out? Uh, yeah, actually that night when we got home, I was brushing my teeth and in the middle of brushing my teeth, I kind of looked at my husband sideways and I said, so I wonder how people get into this. And he said, I'll look into it.
And then about two weeks later, we went to a local lifestyle club that was uber intimidating. Um, we didn't know anybody there and weren't really sure what we were doing, but one of the couples there suggested that we get onto a couple of the lifestyle websites and set up profiles. And that, that's really how we got into things fairly soon thereafter. We had some interest on a couple of those websites and met up with a couple of people and it, uh, snowballed from there.
Yeah, no, that's, that's, it seems to be the standard. And that's, you know, it's so funny that it's hard. Like if you don't, you kind of have to be in the know, right? You have to be on one of those websites or you really have to seek out the information. It's like, it's like this whole world doesn't exist until all of a sudden somebody opens Pandora's box for you. And then you're like, holy cow, this is a real thing. There's lots of people doing this.
Yeah, it's kind of like we're all wizards and such and everybody else is muggles. I don't know. You don't know what exists unless you know what exists. There are so many people in our Discord server that are going to be happy that you mentioned that. We have a whole channel for – what is Harry Potter? Is that even the right reference? I messed this up and they get mad at you. It's Harry Potter.
I'm a little sad that you don't know that and a little happy that everybody else does no we went to we went to universal and um dan kept calling it harry potter world or instead of um hawk warts he kept calling it wizard world or something and i'm sure he pissed everybody off i did not realize how big harry potter was in the swinger community but we have a whole channel on our discord server that's dedicated just to harry potter stuff but there are some good pictures scott that get posted there so that's a plus um but so uh i assume by reading your bio and your information that that you were outwardly um part of the lifestyle and part of the sw community.
Is that true? I would say yes and no. I know that's an odd question. If people ask, uh, we're not shy about telling, but it's not something that I like advertise on the website for my office by any means. Um, most of my YouTube stuff, I know you've seen some of my YouTube channel. It doesn't necessarily outwardly say that I'm in the lifestyle, but I think it certainly suggests it.
So with that, with you making YouTube videos and being somewhat public, are you afraid that that could affect your career and your profession and that there could be fallout from that if your local community or your local hospitals and doctors within your community found out about that? I don't know. It doesn't really bother me that much. I know that sounds kind of odd. As a sex specialist, I don't know that it would necessarily affect my work very much.
Also, I'm in a specialty that's kind of unusual and very difficult to access because there's just not that many of us. So being a pelvic and sexual pain comprehensive specialist, people would have to go a long way to find somebody else. And I have people that fly to me from other locations in the world. So I don't know that it would necessarily affect my job that much.
I think, you know, some of my patients that just come and see me for regular GYN stuff might not see me if they knew outwardly that we were in the lifestyle. Um, I do live in a pretty conservative state, so it could be a thing, but it honestly, I don't think it's going to be that big of a problem if it was outwardly known, posted up on Facebook kind of thing.
yeah so i mean that's such a like a big part of why me and lacy are trying to you know i guess make waves in this community and change that. Cause there's, there's so many people that are living in genuine fear that I think want to be out and want it, you know, are proud of this community and love being part of this community, but just are so afraid to, to be public with her or what people, you know, will do or think if they find out that they don't, you know what I mean?
And I just, you know, it's 2022. I feel like we should be past this at this point, but for some reason we're not. Yeah, I think in our area, one of the biggest concerns I think of people that I know that are in the lifestyle is that they'll lose their church community. And church is, and churches is huge here. It's kind of like everybody belongs to a church. It's sort of more like a social club because, um, a lot of people in the lifestyle are church going members.
And I think there's more of a concern about losing your support system in a situation like that. No. Yeah. That makes total sense. And you're right. Like, you know, we get a lot of hate on, on tech talk and people saying like, you know, you need to find God and you need all this kind of stuff. And it's like, you don't, you have no idea how many people, you know, we've met preachers and priests and Baptist, you know, like so many people are in the lifestyle that go that regularly attend church.
And I think people would be shocked to know how many people sit next to them at church that are also in the lifestyle. Absolutely. If people were more outward about it, it could definitely cause some big waves within the Christian community. Yeah. All right. So I have a few questions for you since, you know, I think it's great to learn about you and the lifestyle and kind of your experience, but more specific to healthcare. Are there some unique healthcare concerns that members in the lifestyle?
Is there healthcare concerns that are unique to people that are just part of the non-monogamous community? Yeah, there sure are. I don't know that it's necessarily as big of a divide as we think, and I know that sounds sort of odd, but even people that are outwardly in the lifestyle, they may have more known partners to their physicians if they're open with their physicians about it.
But everybody that comes into a GYN's office should be offered screenings and certain types of prophylaxis and preventative medications and such. But in the lifestyle, it's kind of for physicians, like knowing that somebody is engaging in same-sex relationships. There are different considerations when we know women are having sex with women or men are having sex with men. When we know that someone has a lot of different sexual partners, there are some definite considerations.
And also to include what types of activities they're engaging in within that environment because some of the medical specifics related to that are different for people that are having more than just a few sexual partners on the regular. Yeah, no, I think that's right.
And then, you know, my next question is, do you think that people in lifestyle are probably receiving subpar health care or are not addressing some concerns that they should be addressing because of the stigma that's associated with this community? Oh, absolutely. I have absolutely zero doubt. There's some statistics which I think are really interesting. I'm only going to throw out one because I don't want to be the numbers nerd here.
But of people presenting to an STD clinic that are in the lifestyle, only about 50 to 60% of them will tell an STD clinic that they have multiple partners and they're there for STD testing. So you can imagine how many people walk into their primary care docs office or their gyne, you know, fess up to it. It's got to be low to minimal. We actually don't have data on that that I'm aware of.
Yeah, and then I guess the next question was, even if they did tell their doctor, would their doctor know what that meant or what to do with that information to change their, you know what I mean? Probably not. the only thing that doctors are likely to think of in this type of situation is, Hey, you need STD testing. And that is one small little slice of it. Um, I actually had posted up on my YouTube channel about like monogamy, non-monogamy lifestyles and that sort of thing.
And it had somebody in in the medical community it was another physician comment on that thread on Facebook if I remember correctly and she said well why do I care the only thing we're going to do different is offer STD testing and I offer that to everyone anyways and it was like a face plant I was like oh my gracious lord almighty you yeah there's a lot more that needs to be done than just STD testing for people who are living in the lifestyle in order to be not only safe, but to prevent pregnancy, et cetera.
Yeah. And that, I guess my followup question to that, since, you know, this, you know, I think what you just said is going to be shocking to a lot of people that they can't even go there, you know, even if they went to their doctor and were open about being in the lifestyle, there are probably some things that maybe, maybe even people in the lifestyle don't, don't realize that they should be doing. Can you, can you just, can you hit some highlights for us?
I know you probably could go the whole hour on this stuff, but can you hit, what are some of the things that people should be aware of? Oh, I totally could go the whole hour about this. Um, so highlights. Yes, you need a regular STD testing. Um, and that frequency kind of depends on how many people you're with and how often you're with them and how many other people they're with. You need to be on some potential medications to prevent certain types of sexually transmitted infections.
Some of those do have prophylactic meds. And really, you need to be as a female on some type of long-acting reversible contraceptive or as a male with a vasectomy in order to prevent unwanted pregnancies, which can be a big problem, especially in the United States right now. So those are highlights. I think those are all good highlights. And I think most of those I think is pretty common. I think I would have resonated with most of those as being aware of them at least.
So I feel better about that. I know when she said it at first, I was like, what are we not doing? You guys may be doing more, but I think a lot of the details within those things are what people aren't necessarily doing. Like, are we doing all of the things we should be doing to prevent sexually transmitted infections? Are a lot of women aware that they can be on a long acting reversible contraceptive that's infinitely better than pills, which have a fairly high failure rate? Yeah.
And we get that question a lot about pregnancy all the time like in my two co-labs and stuff but I find a lot of the women in the lifestyle and men are either at the stage in their lives where their tubes are tied they've had a hysterectomy or the men have had vasectomy that seems to be like more common than not it's definitely more common in people who have finished childbearing I would that for sure.
And so if you're really looking at your like 40s and up crowd, most likely they've got something going to prevent a pregnancy. But we know a lot of people in the lifestyle, my husband and I personally, that are younger, they're in their 20s and 30s, and they haven't completed childbearing yet. And those women, some of them are just taking birth control pills. And I've had sit down chit chats with them about the failure rate of birth control pills.
And it kind of is a little eye opening to them to realize there's things they could be doing that are infinitely safer and more effective than that to prevent pregnancy. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's, that's important to mention and to know. And you're right.
I would think, you know, it's interesting to us because I feel like over the last year, you know, since COVID, that we've seen more of the younger generation start to get interested in this, I say this community, but it seems to me like the ones that are 30 and under, they don't necessarily call it, they don't want to call it swinging. They don't want to call it the lifestyle. They just are okay with having sex with multiple partners, but they don't really want it to be labeled as something.
Yeah, I think there's kind of a push against labeling in the younger crowds. I know personally, multiple people who don't call it anything. I have one friend, very dear friend, who is a female who has sex with both males and females, but doesn't want to be labeled as bisexual or pansexual. And she's like, well, it just is what it is. I don't want to label for it. And I think that's more common in the younger crowd to not have a type of label for this.
Labels are nice for some reasons, because, you know, you walk into your doctor's office and if they're familiar and you say, hey, I'm a swinger, they know what that means. But if you're coming into the office and they're like, not a familiar with you, not labeling it. And you just say, well, I have several sexual partners.
They may think, oh, well, you know, they have a boyfriend and somebody else on the side and not realize that what they mean by that is they go to a house party on the weekends and have sex with 14 people. Yeah, that's, that's definitely a big difference there. And I think it is, I would imagine it's important for the doctors to know that information. But I just, I don't know.
It's hard for me to imagine in today's day and age that really anybody would go into their primary care physician and have that type of conversation with them. It's definitely awkward. Something you had mentioned in another conversation is, I think it is kind of like the LGBTQIA plus community was about 10 years ago. They would never walk into the doctor's office and say, hey, I'm gay. I like to sleep with people of the same gender because they were afraid of the stigma associated with that.
And I think we get that same stigma now when people walk into the doctor's office and say, hey, I'm not monogamous and I'm not cheating. My husband's aware. And husband does this too. So there's definitely a stigma associated with it. And physicians to some extent have a stigma with that, just like they do with anything. A female walking in complaining of pain is going to get less appropriate pain management than a male coming in walking with the same complaint. We have literature to prove that.
So I can only imagine people walking into the doctor's office saying they're non-monogamous or probably not going to get the same appropriate level of care as people who walk in and are meeting normal social expectations. Yeah. So I, and that leads perfectly into my next question is, is, you know, how, how do, what would you recommend if somebody, you know, I guess you're recommending that they should have that conversation with their doctor. What does that look like?
How should they go about that? I do recommend it. I think it's very important for your doctor to know this. A lot of the doctors that I speak with, they say, oh yeah, no, if somebody walked in and told me they were a swinger, I'd be totally okay with that until it actually happens. And then they get, you know, like deer in the headlights sort of thing going on. And for anybody who's curious, I am working on that on the physician side as well.
I give lectures related to this to physician groups at conferences and whatnot. So I'm trying to get your doctor to not be weird about it. But right now, the number of physicians, if you walked in and said that, that wouldn't look like a deer in the headlights is probably quite low. So there's a couple of kind of like quick tidbits. This probably isn't something to bring up at your regular annual appointment.
I know that sounds odd because that's usually when people go to the doctor, but at that appointment, it would maybe be a good time to say, you know, when they ask, hopefully they do, if you're sexually active, to say, yes, I am. And by the way, I'd like to have a separate appointment to talk about my sexual activity. Is that okay? Because if you start digging into the lifestyle and your doctor's thinking about your flu shot, it's going to get confusing.
And we call those door handle conversations in the medical community. About the time the doctor touches the door handle, the patient says, oh, just one more thing. This is one of those one more thing conversations that really should be a separate appointment. That's good advice. I would never have thought of that. I would have always said it in my regular appointments. Yeah, I think most doctors, if you bring up something like that in a regular annual, they're going to be so blindsided.
They won't, number one, know what to do with it. And number two, they're not going to have time to get to that and still do everything else that they're supposed to do at that annual appointment.
We have a lot of stuff that has to be done, everything from assessing whether or not you're wearing seatbelts to making sure that your gun safety is okay to making sure your pap smear is clean it's a lot of stuff to do at an annual and bringing up a side conversation like that is totally overwhelming for the physician especially if they're not prepared for it so if you make a separate appointment to say hey look I would really like to talk about my sexual lifestyle or about sex in general when you come in for that appointment, the doctor's probably going to be thinking, okay, maybe they need STD testing.
Maybe they're having a sexual dysfunction issue. It kind of puts them in the right brain space, but it also gives them a full 15 to 30 minutes to address that one thing. So you have enough time to evaluate, okay, what's your risk? What type of testing do we need? And I think it's probably a great idea as a member of the lifestyle to bring the information with you for your doctor in case they're not aware of what they need to do for you. Yeah. No, I think that's a great idea.
And, you know, I think you're familiar with Shameless Care, right? And that and that website and that. Yes. Yeah. And part of what we like, you know, we were partnered with them and they're a sponsor of ours. But what I like about that website is they have that quiz that you can take, right? There's a quiz that asks kind of all these questions that you're talking about, like, how often do you engage with people? You know, how often do you have multiple partners? Do you do anal sex?
Do you know that gets really in depth and then it kind of based off your questions recommends a testing regime and you know they get into the whole getting throat swabs and stuff like that which you know i've never even heard of before you know having that conversation with shameless so i think there's just so much information and it's it's nice to you know be able to go to a website take a quiz and then at least have an idea of what you know know, when you go to your doctor, what type of testing you should be asking for.
Cause like you're saying, some of these doctors might not, might not even have that information. Yeah. You would think if you asked for an STD test that that would be a standard protocol test at the doctor's office, but it's not. Everybody does different things for STD testing. Yeah. No. And that was, you know, when we had that conversation with Shameless Care, you know, a couple of months ago, that was mind blowing to me.
I, cause I, you know, I was like, man, I've gone to the doctor so many times and as for like an STD, you know, like give me like, you know, give me an STD panel or, you know, workup or whatever, you know, whatever you call it. And then they just do it. And then they, you know, I get a piece of paper in the mail and it got all these words of things that I don't even understand what half of them are.
as long as it all says negative i know i'm good to go and i keep doing my thing but i never would have thought that oh i really should have got this throat swab test and you know like and if i didn't get that well i could have these other diseases and not even know it like that whole thing just blew my mind when we first had that conversation but um it definitely seems like it's a thing that we're not all doctors are universal on how they do testing for STDs and STIs. Yeah.
And it's, it's not even universal amongst gynecologists. Like I have partners in my actual practice where I work now that don't do some of the tests on an STD panel because it isn't exactly recommended. And I know that sounds kind of odd, but it's true. Yeah. Uh, so what I think we're going to get, we'll wait for the backside of the break and we'll get, we'll deep, deep, some dive or dive deep into the STDs and STIs.
Um, but the other thing I want to talk a little bit, um, before the break is, um, sex education in America, right? It seems to me, you know, I listened to a few of your, your YouTube videos videos and I think one of the questions you got asked is what's an orgasm, right? From an adult female, I believe it was. It seems to me, you know, being a swinger that my knowledge on sex and sex education has just expanded quite wide compared to where it was prior to that.
And, you know, what are your thoughts on sex education or on just people's knowledge of sex information in general? Where are we at? What can we do about it? Yeah, sex education in the United States, I would say it's just above deplorable. It depends on which state you're in. That's one really big thing. There's some states that are doing a lot better job than others. Which ones those are, I'm not going to list out right now.
But if you're getting at least some education about your anatomy and the anatomy of the other genders, then you're probably doing pretty good as a state. I do have patients coming in not knowing that there are three holes in their pelvic floor. They don't realize that you don't pee and have a baby out of the same hole. So I think we're probably doing better now than we had been. I will say my one of my kids is nine and their class just recently sent out like this huge email.
We're going to be starting sex education and we want you to watch this video and make sure that you're okay with your child watching it. And when I went onto the website to watch it, it was produced by a very large company. And all it was talking about was, Hey, you're going to start getting moody and you're going to start growing hair in certain places. And eventually you're going to start having a period. And I was like, they think that is sex education. That is basic anatomy.
I mean, like we should know that as a human that you get hair in your armpits and on your like genitals that that's not sex education. They didn't talk anything about sex at all or arousal or, hey, you may look at somebody of a particular gender and think that's super awesome and get a little tingly feeling. Nothing, nothing to do with sex at all. So the fact that our country equates anatomy with sexual education just blows my mind.
People ought to know, you know, what their genitals are, what they look like. And I'm a big proponent of telling my patients to take a, to take a mirror and look down there because everybody's genitals look a little bit different. It just, that just blows my mind. So as far as like sex education for like how sex works, stuff like consent, rape education, education to prevent sexually transmitted infections, you're not going to get a lot of that in school in many states.
And for me, that's a big passion. I love seeing teenagers in my practice because I like having those conversations with them before they make the mistakes that a lot of the adults that I know did. Yeah, no, I think, I think that's huge.
And it is interesting to me that, I don't know, it's almost like we just leave it to the internet and porn to teach our, you know, to teach people about sex and, and, you know, and all that things, which is, seems so, you know, like toxic almost, you know what I mean? Like you're learning everything the wrong way, but, but unfortunately it seems like that's where a lot of teenagers kind of learn that stuff. Yeah. I think there was some data put out about that.
And again, not going to try and be the numbers Nazi, but, um, teenagers learning about sex is most common from their peers, the internet and their parents. Um, and if you start looking into different religious backgrounds, those three different areas tend to like very widely swap. Super conservative. You don't get anything from your parents.
You get it mostly from your friends and a little bit from the Internet because you're afraid to Google that stuff on your computer because your parents might find it. And people who are in households that are a little bit more open about it, the parents are more likely to give basic information. And then the curiosity comes from the internet and the friends, et cetera. Um, I don't want my kids to learn about sex from pornography because that's staged.
Um, as an adult who knows how things are going on, pornography is completely fine and actually helps with sexual drive, but teenagers learning sex that way are going to be sorely disappointed when the woman's not making the right noises. I agree. Um, no, that's a good point. That's all. That's all great. Um, okay. So I think what we're going to do now is take a little break and we're going to hear from the sponsors and partners of the swing nation podcast.
And then when we get back, I think we're going to do the deep dive and ask all the STD questions that we've ever got asked and see if you can sort some of this chaos out for us. All right. Sounds like a deal. All right, guys. We'll be right back. We here at the Swing Nation podcast are proud to partner with Promescent.
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we personally love the website's ease of use and amazing customer support they have supported us in our podcast and giving generous donations to our charity fundraising efforts so if you're looking to connect with like-minded people click the link in our show notes and sign up for sdc using our affiliate link and receive a full access for 14 days completely free make sure you join the swing nation stc group and send us a message all right guys welcome back we're still here with dr store and uh i think on this side of the break we wanted to ask you about all the all things and all the questions about STDs and STIs.
This is probably the top question that we get asked on TikTok and social media. Everybody is super concerned about swingers and STDs. So I think the first question I want to ask you, and this is, is it an STD or is it an STI or is there a difference? Is it the same word? What is that? It's actually the same thing, sexually transmitted infection or sexually transmitted disease.
A lot of the medical literature now uses STIs instead because not all of them are necessarily considered diseases because they are very curable with just short dose antibiotics in some cases.
So most of us call it STIs, but it it doesn't really matter you can say it either direction that's what i thought but people but people are even confused on that right and that's just the the acronym we used to talk about it interchangeable which like being a swinger being in the lifestyle are they exactly the same no but do we use them the same way yeah yeah okay all right so now that we've cleared that up, um, I think I want to get a little bit into the, you know, everybody thinks that swingers are, you know, the most at risk population in the world for STDs and STIs.
And don't even think about being a swinger because that that's just a group of people that are spreading diseases. What are your thoughts on that. Oh, it's not just my thoughts. We have data on this. I love it. Right. Okay. So there's a handful of literature articles specifically related to use of protection during sex. People who are cheating on their spouses are infinitely less likely to use protection than those of us that are non-monogamous intentionally.
It's something like 60% to 70% of people who are cheating on a spouse are not using protection. And people that are in the monogamy lifestyles are about 90% using protection. So if you consider that, technically swingers are probably less likely to catch a sexually transmitted infection than people who are cheating on their spouses. That's a good thing. Yeah. I mean, you shouldn't be cheating on your spouse. If you want to have sex with somebody else, get into lifestyle, my opinion.
But yeah, we actually don't have any data to show that people within the lifestyle are more likely to catch sexually transmitted infections. And in fact, based on data, they probably are less likely because they're more conscientious about it. Right. And so, and the most at-risk population, from my understanding, is teenagers, right? Or younger adults, is that? Absolutely. Under the age of 24, recommended to do STD testing yearly, despite whether they say they're sexually active or not.
They all lie. I'm just joking. Yeah. Well, and I think about that. I think about my non swinger days versus my swinger days. I was never STD tested prior to being in the lifestyle. Not once. But once I became in the lifestyle, then I actively started. And I can think of like, especially when I was younger and as a woman, didn't really have a voice or didn't really choose to use that voice. You know, there's a lot of times where I had unprotected sex and like me now, that's completely different.
I would never do it now. I think people forget that. Yeah. Young people, I think, are more concerned about accidentally getting pregnant than they are about catching an STD. And I know this is going to be kind of maybe a weird little thing to throw out at this point, but I always tell my patients, especially my teenagers, that boys are stupid. No offense, Dan. Men's prefrontal cortex, which is the area of your brain that processes the assessment of danger, doesn't mature until age 25.
So in my humble opinion, up until age 25, males are not actually able to consent to sex because they can't evaluate the danger associated. So just to throw that out there, yeah, men are much less likely to use protection under the age of 25 because they can't figure out that jumping out of airplanes is not a great idea. There's nothing wrong with jumping out of airplanes. I have always wanted to do that. I'm not going to lie, but. I've done it. It does make my point. Yes, it does. It does. Okay.
So, all right. So, okay. Now we know what an STI is. Now we know that swingers are not necessarily the Petri discs of STDs and STIs that it seems like they're one of the most, would it be fair to characterize them as one of the most aware groups of people when it comes to STDs and STIs? You know, there's probably a few other communities, but in my experience, it seems like the people I've engaged with at least are super hyper aware of STDs and STIs.
Yeah, I think we probably are more aware in general than the rest of the population. People who are doing like serial monogamy are less likely to use protection and less likely to have STD testing, etc. I agree. I think swingers are probably in the higher levels of conscientiousness about STDs. Okay. I agree. That's great. We're on a good track here. You're disproving so many TikTokers right now. It's crazy. I don't know how you feel about that. Thanks, Dan. Throw this out to TikTok.
I'm happy to get on your TikTok anytime. Okay. What are some of the STDs or I guess I'll start using STIs Thank you. feel about that. Thanks, Dan. Throw this out to TikTok. I'm happy to get on your TikTok anytime. Okay. What are some of the STDs, or I guess I'll start using STIs. I don't know why I keep saying both. No, it doesn't matter.
What are some of the STIs swingers should educate themselves about and be aware of, or some things about STDs that they should be aware of in your expert opinion? expert, expert opinion experience. Okay. Um, so there's a, there's a couple of things that I think are probably less known out there. Um, so the, the most common sexually transmitted infection is actually HPV. That's human papillomavirus, which causes abnormal pap smears and genital warts. So by far, by far the most common STD.
after that for like population amount it kind of rides back and forth between chlamydia and herpes and this is herpes type 2 which we're going to get into herpes in a hot second because it's a doozy but there's a lot more people hanging around with genital warts and herpes than you would think. Those are all more common, infinitely more common than things like syphilis and HIV.
One of the chats that I always have with my patients that are new to sexual activity, especially my teenagers, is that many of the sexually transmitted infections are protected against with condoms like HIV, hepatitis, syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, and trichomonas. I'll talk about that one in a minute too because it's less commonly known. But the two that are gifts that keep on giving that most of the population has that are not protected for with condoms are HPV and herpes.
You only need skin-to-skin contact for those. Usually this is about the time my teenager's eyes in my office start bugging out because they didn't realize you can catch herpes with just skin-to-skin contact. No, I think that's excellent information. And I don't know at what point you wanted to dive into the herpes thing, but I guess the follow- the, you know, the followup question to that was being, okay, then what do we do about that? Right.
If, if these diseases can be spread with skin to skin contact, obviously skin to skin contact is very common in swinger environments. What should we be doing? Okay. So as far as skin to skin contact goes, I mean, you were earlier, we're suggesting wearing like a hazmat suit during sex. And that sounds like a great idea as a gynecologist, but not very fun as a swinger member. The biggest thing about skin-to-skin contact, it's really important for you to know what your own STD status is.
And it would be ideal if you knew the STD statuses of everybody that you're having sex with, because then we wouldn't have to worry about that. The problem with HPV and HSV, herpes and Thank you. of everybody that you're having sex with, because then we wouldn't have to worry about that. The problem with HPV and HSV, herpes and warts, is that you don't necessarily have to have symptoms to share those with your sexual partner.
I always tell my teenagers, if you see something down there that doesn't look familiar, do not touch. So just avoid. Tell them if you're a female. In my office, there are typically females, not always, but if you're on your period, just you're on your period. If there's something funky looking down there, just tell them that. I'm so sorry. I just started bleeding. Darn it. So if you ever see anything you aren't familiar with, just avoid.
The other thing is though, there are some things you can do medication-wise to prevent yourself from catching herpes and warts. Okay. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. There sure is. Wow. Okay, tell us about it. Okay, so if we're going to get into prevention, so we'll start with prevention just for herpes and genital warts.
So genital warts, the Gardasil vaccine, which your children are probably being offered at their pediatrician's appointment, protects against the five most common types of genital warts and the four most common types of HPV to cause cervical cancer. Everybody that's in the swinging community should have the full set of Gardasil shots, bar none, no questions asked. That will prevent a lot of heartache, frustration, and disgustingness, shall we say. Can you get that at this age? Because I am 38.
So right as I was, you know, old enough that I think this all came out about that age. And I was always told that I was too old for that because yeah, like I do have a teenage son and he is getting it. So I just always thought I was too old to get those shots. You were too old. Then the shot came out about 14, 15 years ago now. Um, gosh, I'd have to do my math. No, it's 16 years. It's been 16 years since the HPV vaccine came out when it originally came out.
It was FDA approved for females between the ages of nine and 26. However, since then and over many, many years and many, many woes, we have gotten it approved for both males and females and in females all the way up to the age of 46 to be covered by your insurance. If perchance your insurance doesn't want to pay for it, you can pay out of pocket for the Gardasil vaccine until the day you die. Oh, wow. That's good to know. I've never been told that. Yeah.
I just don't know how much they cost out of pocket, but I do have patients that regularly request the Gardasil vaccine. Once I know that they're in the swinging community, I recommend it to them. And I'm like, if you haven't had these shots, you should, even if you need to pay for it out of pocket. And is it a series of two shots or just one? It's three shots, actually. The first day, you get the first shot. Two months later, you get another shot.
And then four months after that, you get the third shot. They all need to be done within a year of each other to be effective. Okay. So that one's a big one. Yeah, prevention of herpes is a little bit more complicated, shall we say. And it's mainly because the medication that you can use to prevent catching herpes doesn't have a lot of great data on it, nor is it FDA recommended or CDC recommended to use the medication that way.
However, there are several studies that show that taking Valtrex if you don't have herpes can potentially prevent it. In patients that already have any type of herpes, so herpes 1 or herpes 2, taking Valtrex will prevent most cases of shedding that. So if you start digging into the details for herpes, a good chunk of the population has HSV1, about 80% of us, and those are cold sores.
And they're most often not considered sexually sexually transmitted infections which is why your primary care provider or gynecologist may not be testing for that but you can get it on your genitals it's more common to be on your mouth and it causes cold sores which a lot of people just get from their aunt fanny giving them a kiss when they're four years old so you can take valtrexrex to prevent outbreaks of cold sores.
And it also, based on a couple of papers, should prevent you from catching HSV2 from someone else. So most of my patients that are swingers, I do recommend taking Valtrex to prevent catching other versions of HSV if they have it already. It's a really cheap medication and your insurance is liable to cover it. Okay. Yeah. So that, that's where I, I get a little confused, right? So HSV one, HSV two, uh, one is oral, two is, um, your genitals.
Um, in testing form, there's a few different tests, right? There's some kind of antibody tests and then there's actually physically swabbing a sore or something and doing some kind of test on that. Is that generally right? Yeah, yeah. No, you're doing pretty good so far. Okay. You got me to dig in. Yeah, because some STD testing places, so I've seen like some tests for it. Just like you said, there's no across-the-board requirements for an STD panel.
So if you go into a doctor and say, I need an STD test, some may check for it and some may not. So there is some confusion there for us as well. Right. That is correct. So HSV checks are not actually typically recommended across the board by the various and sundry medical bodies out there. So if you go into an STD clinic and ask for an STD panel or your gynecologist or your primary care, the most likely thing to be left out of that if they're going to leave something out is your herpes check.
Herpes 1 and herpes 2 are most commonly checked for antibodies unless you have an active outbreak. So it would be a blood draw. We're looking for your body's response to the virus in your system. HSV-1 and HSV-2 can be told apart from each other by blood testing. If you have an active outbreak either on your lip from typically HSV-1 or your genitals typically from HSV-2, that can be swabbed and sent off. And then we can tell which version of herpes that is, if it comes back positive.
Now I say if, and if is a really big if there, because the cultures are not always accurate. The rate of false negatives, which means you actually have the virus, but it came back negative anyways, is actually around like, you know, 12% or so, maybe a little bit more. So just swabbing the area for an active sore may not always be accurate. So typically if we see, hey, there's sores, I'm going to go ahead and swab that. This looks consistent with herpes.
I'm going to send off some Valtrex, but we should bring you back in like six to eight weeks and check your blood. Because while you have an active primary outbreak, your blood testing won't be positive yet. I know this gets confusing. So let's make it quick and easy. If you're getting a swab, it could be inaccurate. You should get retested. HSV-1 is typically oral. HSV-2 is typically genital. Those can be checked for with swabs and with medication.
Now, if we get into the more confusing stuff, the vast majority of people who carry one of those two viruses don't know that they have it unless they've been tested. What I've heard about this, the antibody test, is that that can be widely inaccurate as well? Is that true or is that false? No, that's actually pretty accurate. If you have antibodies against HSV-1 or HSV-2, you have been exposed to it at some point in your life. It doesn't guarantee Thank you. No, that's actually pretty accurate.
If you have antibodies against HSV-1 or HSV-2, you have been exposed to it at some point in your life. It doesn't guarantee that you have an active infection, but it guarantees that you have been exposed to the virus. Those are pretty accurate as long as it's been long enough since your initial exposure.
so not to get into too much of the medical stuff but there's a different type of antibody that pops up when you first get exposed and when you've been exposed for a while takes your body a little bit of time to build up that immune response and it changes over from one type of antibody to another.
So in those first like six to eight weeks after being exposed to most of the viral type STDs like HIV and herpes, you have to get retested for the antibodies later because they may not initially show positive. But once you have a positive HSV test, it's almost always accurate. Okay. So for HS, I guess for herpes, for swingers, would you recommend everybody getting screened for that antibody test then? Absolutely.
I think everybody who's in the swinging community really ought to be getting tested for herpes. I would alert people that when they get that testing back, the HSV-1 is liable to be positive. 80% of the time it is. That is not considered a sexually transmitted infection in the medical world. Can it be? Yeah, absolutely. Most of the time it's not.
So what I mean by that is if you come back positive for HSV-1 and you've never had a cold sore or an outbreak in your life, you have had the virus, but your likelihood of transmitting that to somebody else is exquisitely low, is really low for HSV-1. HSV-1 usually only spreads when you have symptoms. Now, if you come back positive on your test for HSV2, and you're like, I'm not going to do that, but I'm not, that's actually how people spread herpes is because they don't know they have it.
It's very common in patients who have no symptoms, you can still spread the virus. In fact, about 10 to 14% of the time, the virus is spread by patients when they're asymptomatic. So there's a couple of studies on this in patients where they were in a monogamous relationship. The wife had herpes, the husband did not. And over a year, there is a 10% risk that the husband will catch it if they don't do anything to prevent that.
Now, if you actually start looking at the data for number of people that catch herpes, if they go back and ask the person who they think gave it to them, 70% of the time that patient will not know that they had herpes in the first place. So I usually tell my patients when they catch herpes, look, don't be upset with your partner. Doesn't mean they're cheating on you. They may or probably don't know that they have it.
So unless you check STD tests, it's a very good possibility you're running around with herpes and not knowing it. The good news about it, if you're going to have some good news about having herpes, is that you're in the majority of the population if HSV-1, and about 14% of the population has HSV-2, which is more commonly on the genitals. HSV-2, one in eight people, that's a big number. So if you get a diagnosis of that, don't freak out.
If you get a diagnosis of that and you're in the swinging community, it does not mean you have to stop swinging. What I usually recommend for those patients is to start taking Valtrex because once you're on Valtrex, even for just a few days, you take it daily and you will not shed the virus. The risk of shedding the virus when you're on Valtrex is ridiculously low. It's on par with catching HIV. Wow. That is so much information.
Like you did a really good job of explaining it, but it's just, it's as a swinger, it's, I think, I think herpes is like my number one thing that I worry about, you know, because like before we started recording, Dan asked you about oral protection for herpes because we, swingers typically always use protection for penetrative sex, but not for oral. And so we always run the risk of giving or contracting herpes. So it's just very scary. Yeah.
The good news about herpes is usually if it's going to be caught while giving oral, it's the person who's giving the oral, having HSV on their lip is more likely to give it to the penis and not the other way around. Is it possible? Yeah, it is. But unless somebody has an active cold sore, giving oral with a history of HSV-1, it's not going to spread that way. HSV-1 is not what we call virulent. It doesn't spread easily without an active infection.
So unless you've got an active cold sore, giving oral, fine. Receiving oral, fine.
Now, if somebody's got HSV-2 on their genitals and you're giving them oral and they're not taking any prophylaxis can you catch that as a cold sore on your mouth yes you just treat it with herpes like you would anything else to be honest because you can catch hsv2 in your mouth it's usually a cold sore just like it would be if it was hsv1 but there are other stds that can be caught orally heads up unintended I guess to kind of close out the herpes thing, do you feel like if you're a swinger, you should be taking Valtrex?
It sounds like that's somewhat kind of what you're advocating. In my humble opinion, yes. Do I have a lot of data to back up people being on Valtrex when they don't have herpes of any kind? No. But we do have a couple of papers that say that you're less likely to catch herpes if you're taking Valtrex. So if you've got it, 80% of the population within the swinging community by statistics has HSV1, you should definitely be taking Valtrex.
And that other 20% of the population that hasn't been exposed to HSV1, you could probably get it anyways just because of your risk situation right so yeah very low low side effect profile cheap medication everybody should be taking it in the lifestyle right so it sounds like you should go get an antibody test for hsv1 and 2 and either way especially if you are you're most likely going to be positive for at least the one and then that that will get you the medication to prevent absolutely everything yeah just tell your doctor you get outbreaks all the time of your oral cold sore they'll put you on valtrex in a hot second yeah that's that's it's very interesting it's like lacy said it seems like like how do how are you the first person that that puts this information out this way um i think you know i think it's gonna be pretty eye-opening for a lot of the people that are listening to this i'm working on it i need i'm trying to get this out there this is part of getting it out there dan you guys are the best oh thank you no this is like great information i could sit here and like fake your brain for hours uh okay the other question i had lacy touched on this a little bit where so knowing all this and knowing all the things you know, should swingers be using oral protection when they engage in sex?
Or would you recommend that? Should is a really big term. Should we? Yeah, absolutely. We should be using protection during oral. Do most people do that? No. Do I do that? No. Um, giving oral to female genitals is complicated because it's really hard to find what they call a dental dam. You can order them online, but they're not super cheap. And I mean, has anybody ever actually seen one? I'm a gynecologist and I have not.
So most people are not going to be using a dental dam to give oral to the vulva of a person. Giving oral to penises, it's a little easier to throw a condom on there and then give oral. Do most of us do that in the whole like scheme of things? No. And that's one of the reasons that getting STD testing is super important. Now you're thinking STD testing, but they just swab my vagina or they swab my penis or they draw my blood. How are they going to know if something's in my mouth?
That's a good question, Dan. You actually should be getting your mouth swabbed every time. They'll swab it kind of like they do for strep throat. So a little Q-tip in the back of your throat, and that gets sent off for STD testing as well. Many of the STDs can be caught orally, like gonorrhea, chlamydia, trichomonas, herpes. Gonorrhea in the back of the throat is probably worse than having strep throat.
Patients say it's abjectlyly miserable so if you went to the doctor and said my throat hurts I may have strep would they check you for gonorrhea so like if you got would they just do a strep test and then not come back negative and be like oh well we don't know what's wrong like how how would that's actually yeah no absolutely they would only test you for strep they might test you for pneumonia if you came in with a really sore throat and said hey by the way i'm a swinger and i love to give oral they might think to test you for gonorrhea um and and to throw this out there this is going to be probably disturbing too is that a lot of these stds are asymptomatic so you can have gonorrhea for a heck of a long time and not know it and then it can progress to other things like gonococcal arthritis.
I have had a patient with that in the not too recent past, came in with sore joints and couldn't figure out what was going on. I happened to know this patient was in the lifestyle and did testing for it. And that's what it was. And she had seen a rheumatologist and her primary care doc and a couple of other people and nobody tested for it because they just weren't thinking about it.
So, yeah, if you came in with a sore throat to an urgent care and said, hey, you know, my throat really hurts, they're not going to think to swap you for gonorrhea. You would have to tell them to do it. Wow. Okay. Oh, I think we could go on for this for hours, but we're running a little short on time. But any other STI information that you think the lifestyle people should know about before we close out? Sure. I think one more thing that is kind of a big bugaboo on my side is trichomonas.
It's probably the most common STD that people have never heard of. Trichomonas can actually live in the genitals for years, like years. It can be asymptomatic and actually a fairly good chunk of patients. In patients where it is symptomatic, though, it's pretty miserable. And it's something that unless you tell your doctor to go looking for it, they may not think to look for. It is often left out of STD checking profiles if they're just looking for gonorrhea and chlamydia.
Trichomonas when it's symptomatic will cause kind of a funny discharge that may or may not have an odor to it. That's just kind of irritating and may cause itching on the vulva. And for males, if it's going to be symptomatic, it can cause a little bit of a drip from the urethra. Um, and it can cause a little bit of kind of general discomfort.
So I see a fair number of patients in my office that are coming in for weird discharge and they've seen several other doctors and they've had swab after swab after swab and it's negative for all the bacterial vaginosis. Gonorrhea and chlamydia are negative and then as I pick through it, they've never been tested for trichomonas and that's what it is.
So if you've got some symptoms and you've been to your doctor a couple of times and they can't figure out what it is, that's another really good one to test for. Yeah, it's one I've never been, you told when we had our pre, uh, phone call, you told me about that. And it's, it's one I've never even heard the name. I don't think before. Yeah. Most people haven't, we call them movers and shakers.
I know that sounds kind of funny, but when you look at it under a microscope, you can see them just like sperm. They move around. You have an interesting job, doctor.
Yet you still are part of the lifestyle so it hasn't scared you away you're still you're still here it has not scared me away and i think the reason that i'm even more confident being in the lifestyle with me and my husband is because i know how to protect us and i want everybody in the lifestyle to have the opportunity to appropriately protect themselves yeah so you know me and l, me and Lacey are, you know, kind of growing a community and growing our platform.
So I'd love to stay in touch with you. And if you have like a pamphlet, you know, like I'd like to post this information and make it readily available to our listeners. So I don't know, you know, some of the stuff you said about herpes, I think would be great to kind of have some kind of, you know, whatever pamphlet or if you have a blog on it or, you know, whatever.
I think some way for us to post all that information and get it readily available and accessible to people that are part of our community. I think that would would be great. And then we'll just continue. I'd like to continue the relationship with you.
And then I think, you know, stuff like this really needs to get to, you know, some of these, you know, when we have conventions at like Naughty in New Orleans and places like that, you know, it'd be really good to have these kind of conversations because I know people are concerned about this kind of stuff. It just seems like nobody is out there talking about it.
We all just kind of, I don't know, I feel like the swinger community at this point in time, it's almost like we just close our eyes and pretend like it doesn't exist and we don't have to worry about it. And then we just kind of hope for the best. At least some people are doing that.
I think I think, you know, hopefully the majority of us are out there getting tested and stuff like that, but there's just so much information is so confusing and, and you definitely cleared up quite a bit of it for me here today. And I appreciate that. Awesome. Well, I will tell you education is one of my huge passions and education related to the lifestyle is, is way up there in, in my level of things that I love to do.
So I am happy to keep in touch anytime you want me to chit chat with you here, or, I mean, I'd love to be a speaker at Naughty in New Orleans. That would be a blast. Um, I'm more than happy to kind of get into any and all speaking engagements for that. I, um, am starting up a website. I'm still working on that, but I'm thinking it's going to be swinging safe.com.
So once we, yeah yeah once we get some of that information posted and some of the like what to take to your doctor what things you need to ask for for testing it'll all get thrown up onto that website you better go buy that url before this gets posted yeah i know right like right now i've got name cheap on another open. That's why I'm saying it should be that because I'm planning on these things. Sorry. We've been searching for URLs for our own stuff, and those can be hard to find.
So, yeah, go buy that right now, dog. I'm working on it. I'm going to get it like right, right now. All right. All right. Anything else you want to put out before we close out here? Not at this point. I think we're pretty good. If you don't have anything else to ask right now, I don't have anything else to throw out there that we haven't already gotten into that won't be a really long conversation. So, yeah, I can stand on some pedestals for a really long time about some of this stuff.
I love it. All right. Well, definitely, if you have more, let us know and we can do part two at some point. I think that I'm sure this will spark conversations and we'll get asked more questions. And now we have now we know who to turn to. So appreciate. Yeah, for sure. Appreciate you taking the time. No questions out to me anytime. All right. Awesome. So Lacey, you got anything for the group of Swing Nation listeners? I think that's it. All right, guys.
I think with that, in a world full of apples. Be the pineapple. Be the pineapple, guys the pineapple guys bye if you've enjoyed our podcast and want to support us leave a five-star review wherever you're listening if you want to see more of our content you can find links to snapchat twitter instagram only fans and more in the show notes come join the conversation with us and other swinger content creators on our Swinger Society Discord server.
If you have questions or feedback, email them to us at theswingnation at gmail.com. Make sure you head on over to theswingnation.net and keep up to date on all things Swing Nation. We thank you so much for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Goodbye.
