@gumby... I will ask again why Americans are not already filling these jobs? There is a lot of variables to why they aren’t. But the bottom line is. They are not."
Sorry dude. I thought ea said that. (see my comment below) lol
@ea... I will ask again why Americans are not already filling these jobs? There is a lot of variables to why they aren’t. But the bottom line is. They are not."
Yes there are MANY reasons. One reason that jumps right out for me is. LAZY ASS KIDS! Many of which are produced by LAZY ASS PARENTS! Or coddled kids produced by wealthy parents. Snobby kids produced by snobby parents.
There are to many parents telling kids that this or that job is beneath them. Or the parents that think their kids don't need to work until they exit high school.
My son was baling hay for $0.25 per bale when he was like 12-13. My youngest daughter rode her bike a mile every morning and night to feed sheep and goats.
Then of course we have the lovely child labor laws. What would be wrong about a field full of 12-16 year olds picking tomatoes 8 hrs a day for summer cash?
Certainly not saying that every job could be filled or denying that some jobs are just not fit for kids. But somehow over the years we as a nation have produced a generation that thinks they are owed a certain amount of pay performing a certain task. If they don't have that. They just don't work.
@EA, “I will also point out that both of you guys are also missing another level of immigrants. This is shit that I have to deal with, H1B.”
Not trying to be an asshole. Seriously not. You are raising a very good point.
But
We were not discussing other levels. So it’s rather unfair (for the lack of a better term) to say we are missing them. If you want to say hey wait, how come H1B is not part of this conversation? That is more accurate than we are missing it :)
@One
"What I am trying to show you is that economic is ONE of the reasons for immigration.
For whatever reason Americans do not want these jobs. We are relying on the immigrants to do them. We NEED the immigrants to do them. When the farmers have to start to pay a living wage and benefits. People are not going to like the price of produce. If we don’t hire immigrants to put new roofs on our houses. There is going to be a lot of wet furniture.
You can get on the biggest soap box available and yell at the top of your lungs that these jobs should be going to Americans. That is not going to force Americans to apply for these jobs.
I will ask again why Americans are not already filling these jobs? There is a lot of variables to why they aren’t. But the bottom line is. They are not."
DING DING DING . . . Winner.
I will also point out that both of you guys are also missing another level of immigrants. This is shit that I have to deal with, H1B. This is a VISA that is given to people who 'possess a needed high level skill' This is means for large corporations - I'm looking at you Microsoft, Google, Apple, Disney, et al. to hire non-Americans cheaper. As there are limited visa's, the employee knows it. Then they take less wages than an American with comparable qualifications would. There are roughly 1/2 a million on H1B in the US. Guess what . . . they came in from an airplane. Guess what else . . . they overstay.
Now, is that greed? Where is the 'Murica chant for these 1/2 million jobs?
I used to figure about 75% of my gross would be my net.
I just looked at my last pay stub. It's about 71.5% right now.
Seems to work with affirmative action.
“Immigrants are hungrier to succeed and have a much better work ethic. Just my opinion”
Well maybe that is a reason people are hiring them.
@MC, should hiring practices be based on nationality? If you’re American you get the job no matter how qualified or what your work ethic is?
Immigrants are hungrier to succeed and have a much better work ethic. Just my opinion
“There are entirely too many variables to this for either of us to claim a moral victory here. You want to argue economy I want to discuss immigration.”
I will disagree that there are too many variables. Taxes are taxes. There is a small difference on the state and local level to move the middle a little. But it’s not a crazy move.
I’m not trying to claim a “moral” victory. I could care less? I am wrong more than I am not. Most days by a wide margin.
What I am trying to show you is that economic is ONE of the reasons for immigration.
For whatever reason Americans do not want these jobs. We are relying on the immigrants to do them. We NEED the immigrants to do them. When the farmers have to start to pay a living wage and benefits. People are not going to like the price of produce. If we don’t hire immigrants to put new roofs on our houses. There is going to be a lot of wet furniture.
You can get on the biggest soap box available and yell at the top of your lungs that these jobs should be going to Americans. That is not going to force Americans to apply for these jobs.
I will ask again why Americans are not already filling these jobs? There is a lot of variables to why they aren’t. But the bottom line is. They are not.
@one: I'm not dancing I'm stating. There are entirely too many variables to this for either of us to claim a moral victory here. You want to argue economy I want to discuss immigration.
“So, he/they made a decision to come to an area and work for $14.00/hr-ish. So (one) stop acting like he's being exploited for capital gains by rich white slave owners. My point is still valid.”
The point of few Americans want a $14.00 an hour job for cash with no benefits is still valid also. Fuck, that is why an immigrant is filling that job. Why can’t you see that? Is there a line of Americans looking to fill that position?
“Go look at your W2 online (both of you) and divide the net by the gross (ALL the other shit) taxes, healthcare, city employment tax, ect. I wasn't just counting the taxes. ”
You’re dancing again.
Healthcare withholding.
The person making dash is not getting healthcare. You’re not comparing apples and apples.
You’re trying to dance some more.
Sounds like I need to give that family the address to the farm & some Nikes.
@Marion
"So, he/they made a decision to come to an area and work for $14.00/hr-ish. So (one) stop acting like he's being exploited for capital gains by rich white slave owners. My point is still valid. If they weren't here illegally, some American would have that job. It may be a dope head working for his daily fix or a guy just getting started, can't know.. but, at least it'd be an American."
I assume that you posted that just as I posted the response before yours.
:)
Exactly! There is work here and he can get paid in cash. So, he/they made a decision to come to an area and work for $14.00/hr-ish. So (one) stop acting like he's being exploited for capital gains by rich white slave owners. My point is still valid. If they weren't here illegally, some American would have that job. It may be a dope head working for his daily fix or a guy just getting started, can't know.. but, at least it'd be an American. Hell, I'll take a legal immigrant, no problem..
@Marion
About 10 years ago a farm in Santa Maria, about 60 miles north of me, same county, need a bunch of workers for the fields. There was a HUGE push to hire American. They placed an ad and offered $10 an hour. No one applied. They offered $15, no one applied. They offered $20, no one applied. They offered $25, no one applied. They offered $30, one person applied. The owners got so pissed and said, "Fuck all of you who are against immigration. I need to run my business." The owners hired some illegals and found some who had a seasonal work visa. They ran into an issue. Where to house the people! After the season, they applied to the city/county to build a dorm style setup for 15 workers on THEIR property. It basically gave the worker about 200 sq ft of space, a communal kitchen, and bathrooms. The permit was moving forward, but it got out that it was happening. What happened next? Well, the same idiots who like to coal roll started screaming, 'Murica and how dare that business house ILLEGALS. They bitched so much that the farm no longer does what it did, but grows pot now. I guess they hire illegals to cultivate and cut.
@Marion
"@EA: you are guilty of the same sin as me. Not understanding geography."
Why are you assuming that they come from the border in California?
That is a mistake.
Again, this shit is very fucking complex, nuanced and layered.
Why is it that when I lived in Alabama, the demographics of the town were 95% white, 5% Hispanic and today it is 33% Hispanic and 67% white? In 2020, the Hispanic population was 25%. So there has been growth over the last 10 years, but there was this massive shift between when I lived there and 2010. Now want to see something that will make you scratch your head? Why are there so many latins in Iowa? IIRC it is almost 10% of the population now. FUCKING WHITEBREAD IOWA!
This goes back to the Heritage Foundation's massive wet dream. The one that Reagan pushed so hard and started. The one that Bush Sr. moved forward and the one that Clinton closed the deal on: Nafta. IMO this was shit created by people who give 2 fucks about Americans but care a LOT about the bottom line. In Nafta, it became CHEAPER in Mexico to import corn than it was to just buy the seed. Our government subsidized corn and then with no tariffs, corn was exported to Mexico. That killed all the farming there. Where did those farm workers go? To Iowa! There are corn fields there. When Cubans came over where did they go? Look where the sugar fields are. People migrate mainly for work and family.
So why are people in that tiny area? Probably because the work that they can do and get paid in cash.
@just: depending on how you meant that, you right or your partially right.
MC you are basically arguing with ignorance, just saying.
For fucks sake.
Go look at your W2 online (both of you) and divide the net by the gross (ALL the other shit) taxes, healthcare, city employment tax, ect. I wasn't just counting the taxes. Shit people... my point was, if you make 20ish dollars an hour, you take home 14ish dollars. Since we're going to pay for the families health care (all kids & super inflated hospital bills because they treat the E.D. like a Dr office and never pay the bill) and my vehicle insurance has went up because of unlicensed and uninsured drivers causing accidents (first hand knowledge of this) and we will pay for the kids education in public schools... which, as originally stated. If I'm going to pay for all that , I'd prefer it be a fucking American.
Venezuela was no doubt one of the wealthiest and most beautiful places until they stole that election and installed the Socialist AKA Communist party. That too is FACT.
Mickey
@EA: you are guilty of the same sin as me. Not understanding geography. I'm pretty sure that a cash construction worker in your area makes more than $14/hr. Here, that's grown man cash carpenter pay for an apprentice. A decent cash carpenter makes 20/hr roughly. But, consider this. Why are they in Marion County Alabama? I mean, according to you they walked hundreds of thousands of miles up hill both ways in the snow to seek asylum in the states. Why didn't they go to Cali? Since it's closer and we can assume by your claims that ""tha strawberries needs a pickin "'. Why travel further, to a less temperate climate, in a county with an extremely low Latino population? Seriously! Why do you believe they settled here? One* you chip in your hypothesis if you have one.
@2out
How close to Kokomo are you?
I have a friend who lives there. He explained that if you live there, you work for one of three plants: Chrysler (at the time), Delco and I forgot the 3rd. He worked at Chrysler. I have known him since before the Viper became a car and now I regret not using his employee discount to get one! One of the things he told me was that pay was very good when you were employed. I went to see him in 96 or 97 and he was furloughed and had been for a few months. I asked him how often that happened and he said a lot, but generally not for this long. He said normally it is like getting a couple weeks off without pay.
Are those places near you the same?
This has nothing to do with what or how you can survive in my area but rather just commenting out loud.
As was stated by ea, we have a shitload of factories in my area. Some employ 6 and some employ 3-400. For the most part those factories are broken down into their (career potentials) (my words)
Some are what I call starter jobs. Fresh out of school, zero skills, not sure what you wanna do. You go here, and here. You'll make an ok hourly and do decent, but that's about it. Most of those have about a 3 year turn over. $14 -16-17 per hour
Then after those 3 or so years you can get into the next group. Spend about 10 or so years there and go from $16 up to 22-23 per hour with some benefits.
After You get 15 or so years in with good attendance and a resume, etc. You can then move on to group 3. We have about 10-20 plants within 30 miles that I will call career plants. These will likely start you in the $18 range and get you to $28+ with a good benefit package. Those will have retirement parties every cpl months and a lot of 20+ year employees.
If you ever want to know how good a factory pays. You don't need to ask anybody. Just drive through the parking lot and look at the cars. If it's mainly old rusty junkers. It's likely a starter factory. If it's full of 2021 silverados. It's likely a career plant.
“ Which brings me back to my ORIGINAL point, before one had his autistic fit. ”
Dude, that is an insult!
To every autistic person out there.
:)
