Fun Facts

Actually, it is a pointless argument VA. WB is an investor, as in buying into or buying all of a company for the rest of time. He is not a stock picker by any stretch.

"There is no difference between Warren Buffett picking a stock and someone else picking a random stock. Do you SERIOUSLY believe there is Va? "

I know there is, and strident yet intelligent leftists such as tbr, Barack Obama, and Paul Krugman know it too. If you don't, you might as well buy lottery tickets.

I'll give you a chance to correct that statement by pointing out that I used the word "random" for someone else, and not for Warren Buffett. Did you notice this distinction?

Chou I refuse to believe that you're being serious. Because if you are, you demonstrate , quite perfectly, the difference between people who make it financially and those who bought homes that they couldn't afgord, lost them, and then went on to blame the banks.

I know there is.

"They don't understand the difference between them picking a random stock and Warren Buffett picking one."

There is no difference between Warren Buffett picking a stock and someone else picking a random stock. Do you SERIOUSLY believe there is Va?

...and you raise a good point. Sometimes the idea is pitiful, sometimes the timing, and sometimes it all boils down to personality.

There are a ton of folks who go into business who should not have done so. Some personalities are suited for jobs, some are suited for self employment. I would die within a day of walking into a job, whereas my father would have died within a day of trying to be a business owner.

What boggles the mind is that there are adults who think.that they'll succeed simply by one day waking up and deciding that they'll start a business. And when they fail, have no clue why they failed.

Even more amazing are adults who think that starting a business and playing lottery are accurate comparisons.

No, Jinx, they DON'T all know it. You'd be shocked as to how few people know it.

I had a chat on the phone with my brother last night. It's like talking to Robert. He went on this long rant about how the United States is a 3rd world country, the only thing preventing the robber barons (YES he used that term - sometimes he called them "greedy scumsuckers") from reducing us all to a country of a few very rich people and everyone else being poor are labor unions, and of course I see things that way because I'm rich blah blah blah. It doesn't matter if a business is profitable - it matters only if you can provide for your employees, even if it means you run at a loss. If you disagree, you're selfish. He ranted about "right to work" states and about how it's not forcing people to be unionized, it's protecting them from people like me. He teaches history and politics in high school.

Basically, people like this are everywhere. People who have no concept of how a business operates, thinking businesses exist purely to give people jobs. They don't understand that competition drives outcomes. They don't understand the difference between chance vs cronyism vs smart business. They don't understand the difference between them picking a random stock and Warren Buffett picking one.

I don't know why I argue with these people. In the end it always turns out the same way.

Sav:

I do not care what someone spends their disposable income on. For many, the problem with lottery is the habit is replacing doing useful things with their money. Of course the same can be said for the shoes, too. If you are not socking away a bunch of your money every time you earn it, you are making a huge mistake. This is a way of life for most of America and yes, i think it is stupid. I am not talking about survival, i am talking about disposable income going everywhere, and zero to very little going where it should.

Yes, it is stupid to spend with out investing first. Getting more stupid every day.

Gambling and calculated risk are entirely different and you all know it. How long will this be ruminated?
Even if my lawn business goes under my contacts and knowledge base does not. A year later I may find someone to partner with and be the missing link in the chain to success. Business and success are a on a continuum, and not a once and done 'thing'.
Failures for many are stepping stones, not failures.

You know what I mean.

A critical difference here is that while both involve risk, the ability to manipulate your risk is zero in a lottery and high in a business startup.

"A lottery win chance is virtually Zero"

Actually, a lottery win is virtually guaranteed!

The chance of a specific person winning the lottery may be close to zero, but the chance of SOMEONE winning is a virtual certainty.

The main characteristic of a successful boot-strap type start-up is just stubbornness. When you think you are going to make x amount of dollars and your really end up making x/10 dollars; some just throw in the towel and give up. A few just buckle down and work harder, that is the ones that make it.

Very rarely is any start-up a raging success. Its a nerve wracking process even after you do it a few times. There is chance involved in a start-up but in the exact same circumstances some people will make it while others won't.

Gambling is the luck of the draw -- for most part. If you hold a pair of aces and someone else has three deuces you are going to loose when everyone shows their hands no matter how hard you work.

By definition gambling involves a risk-return scenario involving chance. Wikis article on gambling has a detailed explanation as to why business startups are not normally considered gambling, irrespective of the risks involved. You may accept or reject it as you wish.

In less complicated terms, investing with well-researched information is not the same thing as picking some random stock.

Put yet one more way, your ambition in gambling typically centers around "hope", whereas starting a business should not. If it does, well, bad idea dood.

Starting a business is absolutely gambling. You can be a legitimately good business owner and still go under. It's a risk with no guarantees for a return on your investment. It might have better odds for success than hitting the power ball, although the latter likely has a bigger payout and required minimal time, effort, and money.

T

While I see what you're saying, I still think the degree of difference between the two is tremendous. A lottery win chance is virtually Zero and has nothing to do with the talents or ambition of the player, beyond their ability to buy lottery tickets. Even a loser with $400 can start a yard work business, and their chances of success are considerably higher. Above all, it is NOT gambling.

"I don't know how serious Choucho is (since he's almost never serious) but I find it offensive that one can compare a successful business outcome to winning the lottery. A lottery win is dumb blind luck."

It's true that many times I am not serious and I do take pleasure in offending people on the internet by typing words on a screen, but in this case, it was just dumb-luck on my part. I was being serious and wasn't trying to offend you.

I believe you are missing point. You and others are saying that it is stupid for poor people to take a longshot on the lottery. I'm saying that it is also a longshot to start a business and it become successful. Both endeavors are longshots, so do you believe that it is stupid for anyone to try to start a business?

Many or most poor people don't have the means or knowledge to start a business, but they can buy a lottery ticket that has the potential for being a big winner. The lottery option may be their only hope at being wealthy. I don't think it is stupid at all for someone to take that risk.

And as far as people on foodstamps buying lottery tickets, you should be all for it. If they win big, they will no longer qualify and you won't have to support them anymore. And even if they don't win, that money is going right back to the government for it to use on social programs.

Lol. Funny when she said she was bad at gambling I thought of strip poker. Someone beat me to the punch though. We are all perverts lol

I'm liking my odds on that one pretty girl. ;)

If you are that bad Mr. Smooth, come on over for a game of strip poker?

Shelly

i'm with you kibbie. as far as I am concerned it's no different from any other choice a person makes in life. for the most part, mainstream society frowns on the swinger lifestyle, but it is my life. the choice is mine, the risk is mine, the consequences are mine and I have accepted all of it in order to do what makes me happy. i do not gamble. it isn't because i think those who do are stupid. it isn't because i think i have a right to tell those who do, wealthy or poor, how to spend the money they have earned. i do not gamble because i cannot stand throwing away money. and for me, the few times in my life when i actually did gamble taught me how really bad i am at it.

I was about to thank Choucho for the explaination. I now realize why I don't win the big kitties: I'm vibrating in the wrong location! I did not know it was not only ok but profitable to viprate in certain public places.

If you've earned your money and met your obligations, what you do with your expendable income is your business. You can save it/invest it/blow it on outlandish things/even wipe your bootie with it, but it's yours to do as you see fit.

"As long as you are vibrating in the right place mentally while you are playing." That reminded me of a fact...

FF: If I don't get home soon, Mrs. G may resort to vibrating her naughty parts without me.

We'll have to agree to disagree, Mrs. Sav.

I agree.

I brought up the smoking earlier. I figured my chronically-broke brother has spent around $95,000 on cigarettes in the 20 years he's been smoking. Pisses me off when he complains about.. you know, some of the Robert-type stuff.. all while spending thousands a year on cigarettes.