Climate change

<p><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:tahoma,verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14px">"Know that electric strip heat that kicks on when it can't extract heat effectively is expensive!"</span></p>

<p><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:tahoma,verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:14px">We had to get a new HVAC system last November and chose to switch from gas to a heat pump. We left out the elctric strip as it saved over $1000 on the unit. We noticed that the house is definitely colder when the temperature drops to the low 30s/upper 20s. But that only happens 2-3 times a year here in North Florida, so we just bundle up. </span></p>

owcangrace - We actually have 3 different heating systems we use depending on the weather. Our heat pump is supposedly capable of extracting heat from temps as low as -31F, howevever it is likely only "efficient" down to about 0F. For times when we see the temps dip below that for any length of time, we generally light the coal stove. We run the coal stove for about a 30 days or so during the winter months.

The actual main heat source is FHW oil. Most times the oil heat will kick on in the morning only and the heat pump takes care of the rest of the day. The oil heat can get expensive to run daily. With no other heat source it can burn as much as 200 gals/mth, hence the 3 different systems. If we had access to Natural gas, that would be different. Propane is substantially more expensive than natural gas, so not worth converting to that.

FWIW - Our last few winters have been warmer than usual. We don't see all that many days below 0F. Just like your wood stove, the coal stove cranks and is conservatively rated at 100K BTUs, so nice to have the excess warmth in the coldest part of the winter.

mayhem - surprised to see your heat pump plans that far north. Know that electric strip heat that kicks on when it can't extract heat effectively is expensive! Up your way I'd be thinking of going with a geothermal setup for efficiency.

On the wood burning, we use it as a supplement to our heat pump. It is more a wood heat feels so dang good thing, over a real money saver. I buy some but also cut and split my own. Forced excercise for something I like. So health benefits there with DIY wood supply

Nature always wins in the end.

@ea, "" On youtube, look into Will Prowse.

The guy goes over TONS of things. Tests the shit out of batteries for storage and tests the shit out of inverters""..

That kid is awesome to watch and learn from. Finally got around to it. Thanks !

I would not consider "wood pellets" to be primitive, so assume you were talking about burning cord wood CandB. I burned cord wood from my property for about 10 years, then the last 10+ years burning coal. If things go as planned, I hope to have a 10KW solar system installed and a 2 or 3 head ductless heat pump installed by next heating season.

I will keep the coal stove and about a ton of coal on-hand for emergencies, but will mainly be using the heat pump (hopefully). My current central heat is FHW oil, but oil is ridiculously expensive right now. With solar to offset my costs, the heat pumps should be a cost effective alternative. I'll be going with the Ultra Heat version of heat pump, which claims to be efficient as low as 5F and can extract heat from air as cold as -31F.

One nice thing about the coal stove is that I can burn wood or coal, so if I just want to take the edge off a cool morning/evening (like I'm already doing) I can just have a wood fire for a few hours. I do have enough free wood on my property that it costs me nothing for that. Just not enough to heat for a season.

FWIW - I looked it up again and there is cordwood where a cord equals and even exceeds the amount of BTUs in a ton of coal. There are a couple of factors, such as type of wood and I would assume how well seasoned it is.

CandB - There are fuel costs and there are operating costs. Fuel costs come down to price/BTU. From what I remember, it takes 1.25 cords of firewood to equal the BTUs of a ton of coal, and 1.5 tons of wood pellets. That is one of the reasons I burned coal all those years. While the cost/bag of wood pellets was slightly cheaper, it took 1.5 bags to get the same amount of heat as coal.

The pellet stoves themselves don't put out the same BTUs as a coal stove. It would take 2 pellet stoves to get the heat I get from one coal stove.

If you own wooded property, all of your fuel may be free, but the costs are in the equipment and labor to cut, split, haul, and stack it, and it does tend to be messy. If wood or pellets get wet, they are less effective and/or won't burn at all. I can submerge coal under water for a week, take it out and still burn it. It does not absorb moisture.

Most pelltet stoves are elecrtromechanical, require power to operate, and are the least reliable of the 3 types of stoves. There is now a gravity feed pellet stove, but those were not available 10+ years ago when I bought my coal stove. I have not seen one in use so can't comment on it, and it would still take 2 of them to get the same BTUs as a wood or coal stove.

Fun - A lot of natural gas may be wasted in your area, but it is anything but free around here. I would still heat with natural gas if it were available, but it's not. Propane is a different beast and may be no better cost-wise than oil, depending on current prices of each.

We use wood pellets, which are a lot easier to handle, and cleaner than split firewood. Assuming you're buying wood (or accounting for your labor), I think the pellets are cheaper too because they burn very efficiently and since the store is thermostat controlled so you only burn just the amount needed to maintain comfort.

Of course, wood heat has it's downsides. I wouldn't leave a burning fire unattended, and you do have to handle the fuel loading the stove each day, and clean out the ashes. But there is something primitive and natural about wood heat the feels so satisfying.

I wouldn't touch firewood....i've seen the work and mess it makes..No freaken way.....I would just use those space heaters and risk burning the house down instead..

We've saved money by moving to the country and burning wood for heat.

in my rural area, the rates are about the same this year but the non peak rates cover a longer period now, from 2pm to 9pm are higher rates, used to be from 9am to 9pm...weekends are also lower rates, at around 3.5 cents per kilowatt hour.. so only 13 cents per Kilowatt hour for 7 hours a day 5 days a week.

AZ energy rates are highly controlled by AZ Gov. laws and there is an agency that has to approve rate hikes...usually very small amounts..

You realize natural gas is free . They flare off more then you could imagine .

This past August my electric supply charge jumped from $0.10 to $0.20 per Kwh. The primary reason given was that the cost to generate it went up because the price of natural gas went up. Found the following by Googling "where does arizona electricity come from". Seeing as how your 2 largest sources of electricity went up, I don't see how a rate hike will be avoided in Az.

"In 2021, 99% of Arizona's total electricity net generation was provided from 6 sources: natural gas (43%); nuclear power (28%); coal (13%); solar energy (9%); hydroelectric power (5%): and wind (1%). Hydroelectric pumped storage, petroleum, and biomass supplied the rest"

I'd bet that goes up considerably by this time next year. We will see

There will be no change, been paying the same for years..I'm all electric, no gas, wood or oil..

@tall, get back to us next year at this time on that cost to heat/cool the house

In AZ i don't touch heat or A/C from mid. Oct to May, except for a few cold nights here and there in Jan/Feb. Highest summer AC bill is 90ish dollars for a 2000 Sq. ft. house...

must be global warming, low 70's early Nov. in upper midwest...

We are hearing fuel oil on the east coast is going on allocation …Must not be true .

@fun - No, but we're on auto-delivery so probably not something I'd notice.

@Maye , are you seeing allocations on heating oil ?

I meant too late for me lol. I'm hoping to buy/build something in spring maybe. But I also don't have to immediately install this stuff. Appreciate the info.

FlipFlops - The Feds have reinstated the full 30% tax credit for renewables (solar, wind, etc) out to 2032, so it's definitely not too late. Also, the reliability of the systems and capacity of the panels is increasing and the costs are decreasing.

@may, ""At some point, I expect EV cars to fully integrate into the system, meaning they will become the battery bank for solar systems"" that's pretty damn interesting and it actually makes a lot of sense cuz you'll be home when you need the electric. I'm afraid I'm starting this research too late but I do have a lot to learn