In this engaging episode of "That Other Lifestyle Podcast," host Jason invites Jay Mojas from the writing team of Jay and Bella Mojas to explore the complexities of the lifestyle community. Known for their captivating novels, Jay brings a unique perspective to the discussion on how language shapes and sometimes complicates the lifestyle culture.
The conversation delves into the evolution of language within the lifestyle, highlighting how terms like "full swap" and "soft swap" have near-universal definitions but are often misused, leading to confusion. Jay shares insights on the cultural hallmark of language and the potential risks of its corruption, discussing how it impacts both newcomers and seasoned members of the community.
Listeners will gain an understanding of the diverse communities within the lifestyle, such as swinging, polyamory, and hotwifing, and how they coexist under the broader umbrella of consensual non-monogamy. Jay and Jason also touch on the challenges of maintaining a cohesive identity amidst the diffusion of language and the influence of mainstream media.
Whether you're new to the lifestyle or a seasoned participant, this episode offers thought-provoking insights into the importance of communication and the shared values that bind the lifestyle community. Don't miss out on this deep dive into the fascinating world of the lifestyle and its evolving language.
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Transcript
good morning good afternoon good evening everyone this is jason with that other lifestyle podcast leave vanilla behind as we dive into the wild lifestyle i have a very special treat today i have jay mohas from the writing team of jay and bella mohas they wrote some books they books. And I love the way that they present everything. And we're going to talk about that in a minute. I got Jay Mohas. If you want to find out more information, their website is mohasadventures.com. That's M-O-J-A-S. And their books are more and even more, which are available on Amazon. Hello, Jay.
Thank you for hanging for hanging out with us today hello thank you for having me so i've been so excited to do this episode with you for a what ever since we started talking about i have been so excited because it is right there in my intellectual wheelhouse of talking about the lifestyle as a community as culture, as something greater than just a bunch of people getting together on the weekends and having sex with strangers they meet on the internet, how there is so much more to the lifestyle.
And we talked a little bit about this, that there is an integral part of the lifestyle is our language, is our shared language, is the terms that we use. And y'all may have never even thought about this. There's a lot of terms and words that we use that have near universal definitions. And a lot of times they're a form of shorthand because we can just say we are full swap. We are soft swap without having to go into all kinds of details. Language serves as a hallmark, as a pinnacle of an actual culture. And I always say the lifestyle is a culture.
But talking with Jay, that cultural hallmark, our language might be in trouble. There might be some corruption there. There might be some misdirection there. So I wanted to have Jay on to talk about this and talk about our language. Welcome again, Jay. Thank you very much for hanging out with me. Tell everybody a little bit about your stuff. I know I told him you wrote an awesome book, but you tell him some more stuff. Well, my wife and I love the lifestyle.
As members of the lifestyle, we are advocates of the the lifestyle and so we were very proud to have created a couple of novels we started with our first book more which was meant to be an introduction to the lifestyle through fantasy through fiction you get to watch these couples find their way into the lifestyle and maybe relate to them and there's several couples in that first book so that, you know, maybe you don't relate as much to one, but you relate to another and you get to see some of yourself in those conversations.
We certainly saw a lot of ourselves in the conversations as we developed it. The response to the book, the first book was very positive. We got a 4.5 rating on Amazon and Goodreads, which I think a good indication of people feeling connected. But more importantly, we got a lot of messages from people saying, you said what we needed to hear. Were you bugging our bedroom? That was the conversation we had. And a lot of people said, we want to know what our next step is. And now we feel like we have some ideas.
And that was really exciting for us, but it also opened the door to having the opportunity to answer a lot of questions for people. And that's where as authors and as people who are offering advice to people, that's where I became particularly aware of the issue that a lot of our confusion, a lot of people were coming to lifestyle are confused because of the way we talk about things. And having been in the lifestyle a long time myself, I was in before this relationship, I've noticed a difference in the way we talk about things.
And that was what made me realize our language is evolving and all language evolves. But as it evolves, I think it may be diffusing in a way that's causing confusion for people. Definitely. And one of the reasons this sticks out of my mind, and I haven't talked about this reality show, and I really should. I have not watched it, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Is that the name of it? I don't know. I've heard the name. So you've heard about it. And it seems to have created quite a stir or whatever.
I've not seen it myself yet either just to spoil for everybody there's no lifestyle stuff in there but there was an interview one of the primary people did on the view tv show here in the united states a few months ago and they were asking her about swinging now in general i really try not to use that term but for the purpose of this we're going to say it and they were asking her about what kind of activities they engaged in when they were doing this. And she said, well, we did soft swinging. That kind of tripped some alarms in my head. I was like, that's not a thing.
Are you trying to say soft swap? But that's how the language gets corrupted because somebody goes on TV and says a term. That's not really a term, y'all. Soft swinging is not really a thing. I'm assuming she meant soft swap. Yeah, that's one instance where the lifestyle is presented in a way by the media and our terms and lexicon are being corrupted. The other example is porn, of course, porn, the co-opting of a lot of lifestyle terms for porn. And when you go and look up the description of certain videos, they're like, oh, this bull did the bull. Bull is my, I hate that word.
I just got to flat out say it. I don't like the term bull. It is a very specific term for a very specific fetish. And there are so many guys running around saying, I'm a bull. Like, no, you're not. You're not going to deliver the experience that people think you can. Anyway, that's the other corruption. Corrupting influence on the language is porn and how porn portrays the lifestyle inaccurately. But they got to have SEO friendly titles for their videos. Yeah.
I mean, I think of the lifestyle language as our own lexicon it forms i will call it a unique dialect because the way we use words is different than the mainstream and i think that's that's necessary it's become important because it helps us to talk about things where there may not be a shared common context with the mainstream culture As an example, in the mainstream culture, if you were to talk about things where there may not be a shared common context with the mainstream culture.
As an example, in the mainstream culture, if you were to talk about a woman who has sex with multiple partners, they'd call her a slut. We might use the same term in our communities, but in our communities, that just means a liberated woman. My wife wears a slut life shirt when we go to our secrets condo. Um, and so the word slut means something very different to the mainstream than it might mean to somebody in the lifestyle. And so there's where the same word in our dialect takes on a new meaning. Um, and we also use our dialect to speak covertly a little bit to hide in plain sight.
You know, when someone says, did you go to that house party? Yeah, we went to that house party. Anyone in the room is going to think, oh, they went to someone's house and ate Doritos. They're not going to know there was naked naughtiness going around because the term house party means something different when people in the lifestyle say it to each other than when people outside the lifestyle say it to each other. And, and we need to have that covert language in a way because we're not accepted in the mainstream. There is a lot of judgment. We're considered immoral and dangerous.
And so it doesn't always feel safe to talk openly as, as we would like to, to have that freedom of speech as as we so when we meet other lifestyle people we we can speak to them more because we have our own dialect because we can say things that not everyone's going to pick up on for me the the dialect the using coded words that to me that is how i recognize other people in the lifestyle It's not with all these bullshit symbols of a black ring on the third finger of the left hand or a toe ring or an anklet. I don't look for those things.
Literally coming from a person in the lifestyle, I don't look for those. But if I'm having a conversation and someone drops certain phrases, that's going to pique my interest. I'm like, wait wait a minute that's going to pique my interest a lot more than random pieces of jewelry i think it goes both ways right it's challenging because since our dialect uses the same word to someone and i've had this happen someone says oh did you go to that house party and i go what are they talking about and then i listen to the conversation go that is definitely not of house party.
Um, and so I agree with you, you can pick up on the words, the coded words, and it may mean something, but it may not just like the black ring or the, the upside down pineapple, you know, frequently I hear people say, Oh, did you see that person has a pineapple in the yard? What do you think it means? It might mean that they saw a pineapple at Home Depot, a pineapple yard decoration at Home Depot, and they thought it was cute. That could be all it means. You just don't know. But I think our dialect does reveal us because of the frequency of its use.
It's not as inanimate as just a symbol that we might wear where someone might put it on, not even what they're wearing it does help identify us yeah but see that's sort of the dilemma the same dialect that's helped identify us to each other and helps us talk to each other exists because we are a subculture within the mainstream that we were not accepted and so we formed this subculture that formed communities our dialect evolved but now because we're a subculture we're not official we're there is no no lifestyle authority to govern our lexicon now what's happened is that that has continued to evolve until, as you said, between porn and misuse and every person's opinion on Reddit or whatever forum there are, words have started to be twisted and used differently, and now it gets confusing what it means.
The corruption of our language. Do you think there was a point in the past where the language was a lot more cohesive, say before social media or the dreaded TikTok? I think there absolutely was a time it was more cohesive, but I don't know that that was intentional. I think that's because the community itself was more uniform and that may or may not have been a good thing either because if you think about it our institutions our clubs our resorts our organizations our websites um they advertise themselves as lifestyle but who are we actually finding on those sites.
If you back 10 years 20 years you're going to find a more homogeneous representation of the swing lifestyle on those sites but now you're going to find a much wider breadth of people that represent related and i'm to say the word lifestyles because i don't think that the the term lifestyle even means what people think it means anymore i always say like polyamory because there's polyamorous people out there they're they're in the same neighborhood they just live next door we might share a driveway and a hedge but it's a little bit different mean, polyamory is more relationship based.
Ours is more physical, physical based. Yeah. I mean, I, I break polyamory and the swinging world based on the idea of, are they having a recreational relationships or romantic relationship? Yeah. And that to me breaks those town.
But, but if you take take those two groups of people those who are in the poly group might rightly refer to themselves as in the polyamory lifestyle and then those in the swinging group might call themselves part of the swing lifestyle and so when someone says i'm in the lifestyle you're almost now left with the the challenge of having to go which one which lifestyle they both have a and a lot of overlap because i think both those would fall under one sort of banner of values we'll call them the consensual non-monogamy values and if you have consensual non-monogamy values you would rightly fall into a community we'll call them communities.
If community is based on recreational relationships you're probably a swinger or you're into the hot wife uh lifestyle both of those would fit into the communities underneath consensual non-monogamy but if you're into the romantic relationships you're probably on the poly lifestyle i think that's where it Well, then even said it early in in this episode you said the lifestyle is a culture and it is a community and that's exactly the dilemma it used to be one in the same but now those are different things and if you define community and culture culture is a collection of shared beliefs values and behaviors and practices that that bring people together community is a collection of shared beliefs, values, and behaviors and practices that bring people together.
Community is a group of people living with a common identity and a feeling of fellowship. You build community through your activities. That's a little more intentional. It can be somewhat unintentional. Community can build naturally, but it's always built through the activities of the group. But a culture is not built on your activities. It is a thing. It is culture is not built on your activities. It's built on your values. And so I think the lifestyle, as we use the term today, is more correctly applied to the idea of a culture. The lifestyle is our culture because we share certain values.
Within that lifestyle culture, we have many communities that exist. And just on the consensual non-monogamy value, we've got the recreational relationship communities like swinging and hot wife. We've got the poly communities, which would include polyamory and other similar lifestyles. but we tend to call each of those a lifestyle of their own, which is where I go back to when someone says, I'm in the lifestyle, we go, which one? Because it gets even more complicated. And I know because when I go to a club or to a resort, we're in the hot wife and swinging communities, if you will.
We can't assume that the people we walk up to are even within those communities right they may not have similar dynamics and right they could be there because there's a great dungeon at secrets and they're there because they love bdsm but they don't they don't touch anybody else and they could be there just because they like to take their clothes off and lay at a pool well yeah you got nudists who are definitely a separate culture but there's overlap because of our spaces allow duty i've been a few nudist places and they're like no no no no we are not lifestyle they'll tell you straight we are not lifestyle we just like to be naked and so i would i would personally break it down this way if the lifestyle is a culture because we all share certain values within that culture i think you got i'm going to call them three core values that that are common body positive values that people feel good about their body they want to feel good about their body they want to be positive they're not only wrong there are people at lifestyle clubs and organizations that are judging other people's bodies.
I think that's unfortunate. And frankly, I'm not sure that they're really in the lifestyle if that's their attitude. They may be taking advantage of our spaces, but if you're there to judge other people, you're not there for the same reason that those of us in the lifestyle are there. So people who have a body positivity, that's a core value, I think, of the lifestyle culture. Then there's sex positivity because there are those who have a body positivity, that's a core value.
I think of the lifestyle culture, then there's sex positivity because there are those who have a negative relationship with sex in our mainstream culture. We don't, we think sex is a great thing and we think sex is, is positive and healthy and you should explore it.
But then there's also consensual non-monogamy, but those are three separate and when you put all three together that's where you've got room for the communities like the swinging the hot wife the poly but if you drop out the consensual non-monogamy and you just have body positivity and sex positivity that's where you've got room for people who are bdsm who are exclusive to their partner you've got people who are casual sex singles um which is a you know sex positive attitude hopefully a responsible approach to it but it's sex positive attitude but then you got swinging singles which is a big controversy i read so many articles can you be a swinger if you're single you know the issue is if they're looking for consensually non-monogamous partners than they are in that lifestyle because that's what they're looking for but those people are not in of themselves in a relationship so you got the sex positive values which creates these communities for bdsm and people who are casually sexual and people who are swinging singles then you got like you said the nudist and naturism that group of people they've their values of body positivity give them a community but they're in our lifestyle space because i think they fit within one of our core values and we've created the lifestyle culture has created a safe space for all of these other communities to kind of come together but the confusion comes in which one where's the the line of which one's a lifestyle because when we say i'm in the lifestyle if you mean i'm in the nudist lifestyle then you're not the same uh interests as somebody who's there saying you know i'm looking for another couple that's going to match our interests so that we can swap with them.
Two different communities that don't actually intersect. They just kind of coexist next to each other. Hopefully, because our culture has these values, hopefully they're not judging each other, but they're also not intermingling to the fullest extent of what we might think would happen in lifestyle okay i have mad respect for the amount of thought and depth that you have given this topic that is insanely deep i wow that is okay it was painful man it is my blessing and my curse that oh i am impressed as hell with the depth of this conversation and the thought that you have given this.
And yeah, I totally agree with those three pillars. I totally agree with that. And you're right. It can be tricky to figure out where someone fits on this spectrum, where they fit within these values. To tell you a story, oddly enough, me and Jay were on the same cruise back in April. I had no clue. Didn't know. But on this cruise, there was a solarium with an outdoor pool. That's where all the nudists went. So we were on a lifestyle cruise, swingers. This was advertised as lifestyle cruise, but there was a big population of nudists.
I won't say big, but there was a population of nudists who went on the cruise because they wanted to be able to just walk around naked. That's their thing, which is totally fine. But there was definitely a divide. You could totally see the divide on the cruise that all the nudists, naturalists, they stuck to their little group and they stayed together and they hung out of this one pool and it was just understood like, oh, everybody over there is a nudist. They're not into what we're into, which is fine. All respect for it.
Both groups, both camps were able to enjoy this space together just in a different way. What's interesting is, as you said, we were on the same cruise. It would have been wonderful if we happened to know each other then because I might have enjoyed it a little more, but we ran into sort of the same realization, although in our case, it kind of was more overt because we saw a couple that we thought was really attractive. And so we approached them and had a nice conversation and it came out in the conversation that they don't, they don't swap.
They're just there so that they could lay naked by the pool on, on the days they could lay naked by the pool. That's a great thing that we can coexist and share our, our space with that. I think it's great that our culture is inclusive at the same time. There's a cost to that because as much as we enjoyed conversing with those people, we now spent time with them and we moved on to another couple and it happened again.
A few minutes of our life is not a big dilemma, but you get to the point where you say, okay, I came here to find people like me, but I've got to look through all these other people first to find people with the same interests. And so then you're left with the question, is the lifestyle becoming diffused? If I want to find people like me and I go to a lifestyle event and a lot of the people are not like me, is that a good or bad thing? And I don't know that the answer can be absolute because on one hand, I don't want to see the lifestyle be an exclusive type of culture.
I don't want to see it where we say to people you can't be welcome here because you're not exactly like us if our core values are the same i think that's great um i want to be better than the mainstream otherwise let's just stay mainstream but at the same time i can't lie and say that i don't sometimes wish when we go to that lifestyle party that we can look around the room and be like eeny meeny miny moe who do we want to talk to because they're all going to be into us obviously attraction matters but as opposed to getting past that first part of which lifestyle are you in before we start flirting too hard right having to quant having to quantify people and that's language has a purpose the language our language has a purpose in helping us have those conversations and figure out who we're talking to what are they interested in versus what we're interested in because we've been to some went to a nudist resort everybody there was nudists they were very clear about we're not lifestyle which is cool we can still hang out and fun.
We've been at parties and events where there were polyamorous people there with their various connections. And they'll introduce, you know, it's like, well, yeah, but you're not really into the thing that I'm into, that we're into, that we're looking for tonight. Wonderful people. So, yeah, trying to find that balance and trying to. Well, and you just said you went to a nudist resort, which means you went to, I'm going to say. I went to their space.
just said you went to a nudist resort which means you went to i'm gonna say their space right you went to a nudist community place i'm gonna call them communities for the moment within our lifestyle culture that community has a place a resort of their own you knew what you were walking into you knew the boundaries you knew the rules and i almost wonder if maybe if we could clarify our language a little, it might help when you're walking into a lifestyle event, knowing upfront, just like you did walking into that nudist resort, you knew what values were, were core there.
Now the danger is I don't, I'm, I don't want to see the lifestyle become a place where they say, if you're not like this exactly, you're not welcome. But I do think there's, there's a space for being able to define more clearly. And it's funny because I've seen people on profiles in like SDC say things like, you know, we don't do labels. And I think, well, then how am I going to understand you? Because I won't know what you are open to, what your boundaries are. If you can't say to me, this is what we do and don't do.
And when people say, we just like it to happen organically, that to me is a little scary. Now, not no judgment to those who that's their style, but it's scary to me because I don't want to stumble through an encounter with somebody for them to go, Oh yeah, now I'm still, I'm not feeling comfortable anymore. Right. I'd rather have known where that was going to be before we got there. So I didn't have to make you uncomfortable to find that boundary. So I like it when I can say to somebody, you know, Hey, you know, if, since we both agree, there's an attraction here, what are you guys into?
And they say, we do these things. We don't do these things. It's just challenging. Now when they go, we are soft swap and you go, okay, well, what does that mean to you? We'll see you next time.
attraction here what are you guys into and they say we do these things we don't do these things it's just challenging now when they go we are soft swap and you okay well what does that mean to you because that's a bad yeah i can see that point that you have to me a lot of the terms that we use that i use in my local circle i can totally see on other parts of the country in the world they can have a different meaning having having that. So we'll take soft swap to me.
Soft swap is everything short of penile penetration, but there's other people who lump in girl on girl action, even guy on guy, you know, of their things versus, okay, we just don't do this one thing.
And the whole thing with the labels, like, okay, I can see how you don't want labels until the dude tries to make out with you you should have put the label on yourself you're straight you're straight just say a label yeah that's a label that's a label if y'all never thought about it that way that's a label like you've got to define what is your thing and what isn't your thing for the purposes of y'all are about to have sex and nobody wants a surprise during sex. The worst thing to happen is to get a surprise during sex.
And if two couples, we'll just use that dynamic, have agreed upon boundaries based on the terms that they've used. If you decide, I want to push that boundary in the moment, that's how bad things happen. That's how people get pissed off. That's how bad things can happen. Right. Agreed. Yeah. And I think that, you know, when people talk about not wanting to use labels, I think what they're, what they're resisting is what we're going to be left with.
If the language keeps dissolving, if it keeps diffusing, because then you're going to be sitting there with your checklist and going, are you okay if I touch her? Is she okay if she touches her? Are we allowed to kiss on the lips? Are we allowed to kiss on the neck? Are we allowed to do this? Because now when we just say, hey, we are full swap, same room, those kinds of labels that we take for granted. They're not as clear as they used to be just for the same reason that the word lifestyle is not as clear as it used to be.
Because with all of this inclusivity, which is great, we've now started to lose our clarity. And so now I think those people who are against labeling are really against where we're going, which is if you want to be clear with somebody about what you do and don't do, you're going to have to start going through these checklists. And I don't want that either. That's not very sexy. Like, okay, let's get it on. Let's go through the do's and don'ts. It's a 52 page list of what we can touch, can't touch, who can touch, where we can touch. That's not fun.
It's just nicer to be able to quickly communicate the way we have and used to do, I think even better by understanding each other with certain common terms.
And again, the dilemma is when somebody says I'm soft swap, and then later they reveal what that means is that they'll allow her to to do she can swap but he can't well that's not what soft swap means well there well that's what it means to us well that's a problem about if it means something different to both of us we can't use that label anymore that's true that's the authority now the problem is we there is no centralized lexicon there is no webster's dictionary for the lifestyle that says everybody you know here's the absolutes you can't change this without somebody saying this is what the term is now we don't have that it's we've got an evolving lexicon based on the opinions of all of the people in.
And it's evolving super fast because of social media, 30-second TikToks. All it takes is one person to put a batshit crazy definition up there and get 100,000 people to view it. Well, fuck me now. That's the new definition. Right. And he brought up bull. That was, that's one of them because I wrote an article and the challenge is that it doesn't fit exactly with the definitions, uh, that have been used in other articles for that. You know, the, the, one of the questions was what is the real definition of the word bull?
I'm of the opinion that when you're talking about stag vixen dynamics of hot wifing, which is very different than cuckold dynamic of hot wifing when you've got a hot wife situation where the wife plays and the husband you know where there may be more than one man involved with that wife if the husband is is in a cuckold situation it is pretty typical for the man coming in to be in the role of the bull he's a dominant man who's gonna you know demonstrate superiority there's a humiliation aspect to it there's it's a kink there's a humiliation aspect to it it's a very specific kink that's totally fine if people got it you're totally fine but that's to me that is the definition of bull in a situation with stag vixen or hot wife or something you're not a bull you're a single guy who's coming you know when the stag vixen couple is playing with a second guy to me that second guy is is really the toy like uh it's i brought in some extra help to give pleasure to my partner right well we're he and i are we're on the same team neither of us are there to outdo each other we're there to make sure she gets maximum enjoyment that's not the definition of a bull to me the problem is that there are those who are very definite you know if it's if it's if you use the word hot wife that extra guy has to be called a bull so now you end up with people go oh you you play hot wife style yeah oh good i'm a bull i'm like well then we're not interested but then they have the persona in their head of what they think a bull is so i come in with the very dominant aggro alpha masculine thinking going to cuckold and humiliate the other dude i was like hold up that's not the dynamic that we're trying to hit.
So that confusion of, oh, if you're a hot wife, even in the stag vixen, if you're a hot wife, the other guy has to be called a bull. That confusion to me creates a confusion in the event where the person shows up thinking they know what you're expecting and you're not expecting that. I wish that there was more clarity in our language, but it just requires that we have to define things when we talk to people and say, okay, this is exactly what we're looking for. This is what we're interested in. Is that how you see it? Well, we're going to take a short commercial break and we'll be right back.
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Are you tired of your boring vanilla holiday parties? You know the ones where your co-worker Linda tries to talk to you about her cats again? Well, ditch the fruitcake and those awkward family gatherings because we're unwrapping something way more exciting next year. Get ready for National Lifestyle Weekend, where the naughty list is more than just a suggestion. It's a way of life. Join us in Las Vegas, June 19th to 21st, 2025, for a weekend of sexy parties that you probably can't tell your relatives about.
Whether you've been naughty or, well, mostly just naughty, National Lifestyle Weekend is the place to let loose, let go, and let everyone have a very happy holiday. Go to www.thatotherlifestyle.com for tickets. Welcome back, everyone. Thank you for hanging out with us today. I have the wonderful Jay Mohas here. Just a reminder, go pick up his book. It is called More and Even More, available on Amazon.
Jay, we have done some deep, deep discussions today, and I can tell you're a man who still has some things on his mind you just got that look in your eyes like i got more i wrote out an outline you know the thing is i as much as i'm harping on how the length that the what i would call the diffusion of our dialect is has an effect on us i think it also comes back to not just when we can't communicate clearly to each other it can lead to uncertainty and situations it can lead to question marks as to what kind of event we're walking into what what is going to you know what we can expect when we get there um but i also think it it leads to i'm gonna say it leads to a a fraying of our of our identity lifestyle identity and that i think is why we will continue to struggle finding traction with the mainstream because whenever they come in contact with a lifestyle community whatever community community that may be, they see that community, assume it represents the whole.
Then when they come in contact with a different lifestyle community, they just assume that everybody's the same as the others. As long as we're unclear about what we are, who we are, we're not going to be able to make ourselves understood in a positive way because they don't understand us at all. Nope. For the lifestyle, and you talk about the vanilla world coming in contact with a lifestyle person or community, what makes the lifestyle unique though is it's a personal relationship. It is a group of relationships that are brought together without a central authority.
Like you say, there's nobody determining what exactly our words mean. There's nobody out there driving the idea of this is what the lifestyle is. This is all personal individuals, relationships, married couples, whoever, who are joining, but they have such a personal take on it and a personal view of what the lifestyle is. So it's a lot of pieces coming together to make a whole versus other institutions, other cultures that are out there where it's the whole and everyone takes a piece from it.
We're all contributing equally and together to this, trying to figure out what the entire thing will look like collectively. And I really, really like that about the lifestyle that there is no central authority. There is no one pushing what we should be. And I'm thinking of football, American football in this. Alliances and tribes are determined by your jersey color. That jersey color is determined by a central intelligence, the NFL or whoever it is. There's people up at the top who are determining what the color of your jersey is going to be whenever you support this team.
So everyone's buying into a collective determined by a central intelligence versus the lifestyle that there are no hard and fast rules for this. Right. And I, and I like that. I agree with you. I don't want there to be a central authority of the lifestyle. You know, absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. Anytime you put anyone in charge, everybody's real happy to have somebody in charge when that person's saying what they wanted them to say. But as soon as they say something different, everybody's unhappy.
And in a community like ours, or I should say a culture like ours, which is so diverse, you can't possibly make everybody happy at once. But if everybody in their communities is living their identity, then they're going to be happy. I don't know the answer. I wish I did know the answer because I think it would solve problems in the mainstream community as well. If there was a way to say, hey, we're not going to tell you how to live your lifestyle, but we are going to agree on what the words mean so we can understand each other when we talk.
That's certainly what helped the understanding and having the shared lexicon would be a lot better.
It be super much more helpful and maybe it's an american ideal that says i like this word but i don't like what it means so i'm just going to change the meaning instead of using a new word or well like word you may i mean we to the lifestyle's credit we do take words that have negative connotations and co-op them into something positive and we own them like the slut life shirt which i think my wife has one too you know we we own that word we took that word back and yeah it has really bad meanings in the vanilla world but in the lifestyle is like cool right and but that's where our dialect took the word but then now within the lifestyle it's it's kind of like, once you start the ball rolling downhill, it's hard to stop it.
So, so we're taking words that mean one thing and changing the meaning, but now within the lifestyle, people taking words that we all thought we knew what they meant to us in the lifestyle.
And we continue to change the meaning, which is why the confusion starts to, to pop up and, and there may be some listening to this going like see the problem it's not that big a deal this isn't that that huge and it may just be because my unique perspective and and the brain that we've both made fun of that i can't turn off i am looking at this over a course of having been in the lifestyle for several decades now i had a big break in the middle um if you've read our bio on our website you'll see that when i met my my wife bella my co-author she was vanilla and said hell no when she heard about my swinging past so that isn't going to happen in this relationship and i was in love so i said okay then i've got to walk away from the lifestyle because i'm i want her i'd rather have a vanilla life with her than any life with anybody else and so we were together for 10 years before she said to me i want to see this lifestyle i want to see it with my own eyes her curiosity uh her interest is what caused us to to venture back to the lifestyle for me and now she's like i wish i did this sooner as a result i've got this unique perspective of seeing the way it was and the way it is.
And I feel like the changes that have happened in our language and the diffusion and the watering down of some words, the changing of the meaning of other words, it seems rather insignificant in each specific case. When I look at it overall, I'm like, wow, it's, it's not as clear as it used to be. It's not as, as easy as it used to be. Now that's not to say the good old days were always good because they weren't.
I mean, I think there's some great things happening over time in the lifestyle with inclusivity and recognizing even some of our own bias and our, our own prejudice within the lifestyle towards some of the communities that exist under our cultural umbrella. I think that's a great thing that we do have more inclusivity now, but with that inclusivity, we also have this confusion creeping in. And if we could keep the good and protect the language at the same time, I'd be so happy. I don't know if it's possible. Maybe that's just not how things work. And I live in a fantasy.
I love thinking of the lifestyle as not just a choice, an alternative to the mainstream, but I like to think of it as we've got a better community than the mainstream. And now, because I'm trying to diss the mainstream, I'm not trying to put down the mainstream, you know, values or that's if, if that's who you are, that's who you are. That's okay. I don't want to judge just like I would rather you didn't judge me.
I know, I know they don't agree with that, but that that's my opinion at the same time that's why i think the lifestyle is awesome the word swinger just swinging back around to that i don't like that word it has a lot of to me negative connotations but that's the word the vanilla world understands so when you talk to the vanilla world that's the word we have to use because they don't understand lifestyle until they get educated on what do i mean by lifestyle, the inclusivity.
Swinger has this connotation of two heteronormative couples doing whatever versus the lifestyle, which as you say, is a lot more inclusive of everybody, whatever you want to do, whatever you want to enjoy, whatever you look like, it doesn't matter. it matter it's a lot more inclusive so i know that word the meanings behind those words one has fallen out of favor one has grown in use uh over time but that helps but we still got to define them we still got to define what lifestyle means that's where i think swinger and lifestyle don't mean the same thing.
At one time, and in fact, there's even websites with this swing lifestyle was synonymous. Are you in the lifestyle was the question, are you a swinger? But that's no longer the case. The lifestyle now I think refers to the culture under which there are many communities that have found a haven.
i think the swinger community which is couples committed couples that are swapping with other couples in various different ways i think that's a community underneath the lifestyle culture just like hot wife the hot wife community and a community is defined again remember i said earlier a community is defined by their activities a culture is defined by their values when we say lifestyle versus swinger i think we're kind of comparing um apples to apple seeds because one is found within the other but not necessarily the other way around and i don't think that's why when i hear people say i don't like the term swinger um i don't want to use it i say okay you don't need to use it unless you're trying to talk about that community and if you're going to talk about the lifestyle and you never bring up swinger then you're actually excluding part of the lifestyle because it is a community within the greater lifestyle.
But at the same time, people who use Swinger exclusively are by default excluding all the other communities. So I think that's where we get tripped up because Swinger is really just one part of a bigger whole.
And then when we say lifestyle, and that's the challenge challenge when people say the swing lifestyle or the hot wife lifestyle or they say the bdsm lifestyle or they say the naturalist lifestyle using the word lifestyle after each of those makes it a little confusing because each of those communities exist inside of what we would refer to as the lifestyle you've given us some very deep thoughts for today oh my god my brain this has been wonderful awesome stuff i i to my credit i've never thought this deeply about it oh my god this is impressive deep thoughts you may regret having thought this deeply about it.
Oh my God, this is impressive. Deep thoughts. You may regret having thought this deeply about it. No, this is good. No, it's good. People need to think about these things. People need to think about where they fit into the larger ecosystem, where they fit within these communities. And none of us are defined specifically by these labels. I know we talked about labels, but people can go back. People can engage in couple swap. They can engage in hot wife. They can go back and forth. They can try BDSM. So there's no clear definition, defining line between what you have to be in these communities.
It's kind of, this is what I want for tonight. Well, and just like in the mainstream, you can be part of multiple communities in your life. You may be part of the PTA and also part of your golf club or whatever. Those are separate communities that you can be in more than one at a time. And within the lifestyle, you can be in multiple communities.
You may even be in a community community predominantly but still enjoy some of the activities that are common to a different community it's just not that that black and white and i certainly am not advocating for you know labeling people and and you know making people wear a wristband at every event that says that this is who they are um i think that can be helpful in some events, but I'm not saying that that's what we need to do because I don't want the community to become fractured or the culture to become fractured.
I simply am saying it would benefit us all to maybe think about how can we better communicate what we are, where we are, what we want, what we offer, because the assumptions and or the intentional avoidance of defining those things, I think is going to lead to a diffusion within our subculture of the lifestyle that one day it won't mean anything. When someone says I'm in the lifestyle, everybody's in the lifestyle. Everybody's in something. Yeah. I had sex before I was married. I was in the lifestyle. Well, that's not exactly what it means. It's not the same. Yeah.
Well, you've given us some wonderfully deep thoughts today, and I do appreciate it. Tell everybody about the book. Well, you can get the book on Amazon, but because the searching for things on Amazon is just such a headache, I highly recommend you instead go to our website, www.mojasadventures.com. That is M-O-J-A-S-Adventures.com. And when you're there, you'll see links that will take you to the two books that we currently have more and even more. First book is Newbies Who Discover the Hot Wife Community.
They explore hot wifing activities that some of them are thinking about and some of them don't know what they're thinking about, but that's what they find themselves in.
And then the second book called Even More, they explore further into the lifestyle where some say hey we want to try something else and you'll see some swinging going on you'll see some other combinations of activity and fun um and you'll see some who say no we found our thing this is what we enjoy and that's what we want to do the second book builds on the first uh so when you read the first one you get to know these characters in the second book you get to see them go further and the third book which um hopefully will be out by january um called forevermore it's going to take you uh even further into their adventures as you see them continue to figure out the culture of the lifestyle that they've now become in.
They've now found themselves in. And so that's that particular series that we've just really enjoyed working on. Bella is my editor and my continuity expert, as well as the cover model. We get that question a lot about the cover photos. And yes, that is Bella on the covers. We just really enjoyed putting them out there.
And we've super enjoyed the response we've gotten from people and we really actually enjoy when people come back with questions because there may be new or we're exploring i'm not an expert i'm just a guy and i've got uh my experience and i draw from my experience and a little bit of research and give my opinions on things but hopefully they're helpful helpful to people. And, and we really hope that, uh, as people read the books, they'll be edutained. They'll, uh, they'll learn something if they were curious about it, but they'll also just enjoy, uh, enjoy what they've read.
So I want to say these books make great Christmas presents, holiday presents for your lifestyle friends, because one of friends has amassed a um uncomfortable amount of pineapple paraphernalia and swag and their kid noticed and the kids are like oh i'm gonna get you pineapple stuff for christmas and she's like what are you what and like yeah you got all this pineapple stuff so look books these books make great presents especially because you can buy them digitally through Amazon, put them under Kindle. Nobody knows. Nobody can see it.
So yeah, we may not want to do the pineapples this year, but go get somebody a book. They will definitely appreciate it. That's a great idea. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with us today, Jay. To everybody out there, y'all have a wonderful day. Y'all be safe. Take care. Tune in for the next episode. Thanks, everybody.
