Join Jason, the host of That Other Lifestyle Podcast, as he delves into the vibrant world of ethical non-monogamy. Featuring a compelling conversation with erotic novel author Jay Mohas, this episode offers insights into the lifestyle community, highlighting its core values of body positivity, sex positivity, and consent. Discover the inclusivity of the lifestyle, catering to diverse groups and backgrounds, and the challenges posed by those who don't share the community's ethical standards. Learn about the difference between lifestyle participants and those who merely share the space for different reasons. Whether you're a seasoned lifestyler or simply curious, this episode provides a thought-provoking exploration of the boundaries and values that define the lifestyle community.
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Transcript
good morning good afternoon wherever you are i hope you have blue skies welcome to that other lifestyle podcast i am your host jason leave vanilla behind as we talk to one of my favorite guests this podcast is for adults only we'll be diving into adult and sexual topics with plenty of colorful language so it is not safe for work if you you're under 18, this is not the place for you. This show is all about exploring the lifestyle and ethical non-monogamy, and it's open to everyone, no matter your background, gender identity, expression, or your personal truth.
While I do my best to use inclusive language, you may hear terms like husband, wife, or partner for simplicity's sake. This show is for everyone though, lifestyle, vanilla, or just the curious. You want to connect? you can send me an email to host at thatotherlifestyle.com. Visit my website at thatotherlifestyle.com and check out my favorite lifestyle recommendations at bennable.com slash thatotherlifestyle. Everyone is welcome here because the lifestyle is so much more than you think. We have joining us again today, Jay Mohas. Jay is an erotic novel author. He has written more and even more.
How are you doing today, Jay? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you for hanging out with us. So for the books, if people want to find out more information about you, find out where to get the books, where can they go? So the best place to get information about me and Bella, my co-author and editor, uh, and also my beautiful wife is to go to our website, which is, uh, mojasadventures.com. That's M O J A S adventures. That's one word.com. Uh, and if they want to reach out to us, they can do it by email at authors, Mohas, which is one word, authorsmohas at gmail.com.
And that's where they can get information about the books and our other adventures. Awesome. And I really like the books. To everybody out there, you should totally check these books out because they present sex positively. They present the lifestyle. They present swinging positively.
And I heard that you have something else in the works we are uh very actively working on getting the third book uh completed the third of three to finish the arc of that story so uh forevermore so we had more even more and forever more we'll be coming out hopefully in about a month where we're working hard on getting that wrapped up a little behind schedule but uh hopefully within a month we'll get that out and it'll be available on amazon along with the other books but the easiest place to find them is to go to our website because we've got links to those and everything else i told i i very much understand the um pushing things out i may have to reschedule a few things because i have a few projects I'm working on and life gets in the way.
Life happens. And no matter how much you want to focus on the fun stuff and writing and projects and all that, life just gets in the way. But I thank you so much for hanging out with us today, taking time out of your busy schedule to talk to us. You were so excited. You had a topic in mind that you want to come on the show and talk about. And I got excited when you were telling me a little bit about it. So what is on your mind, Jay?
Well, I mean, in fairness, I was excited just to talk to you because I think we have such a great conversation when we get into these conversations about the things that make the lifestyle what it is, then it turned into a, hey, we should talk about this on the podcast. Right? That's all the conversations. Yes. Like, wait, stop talking. We have to go talk. We have to record this right now because I need to put this out there for the listeners.
But what we were talking about that got us both excited is just the whole idea of, and it kind of stems off of our previous conversation where we talked about the language of the lifestyle in the previous episode. And I mentioned that, you know, there are multiple groups within our community. The lifestyle community consists of multiple groups. And that's a good thing. Inclusivity is a good thing. But it's important for us to not forget that there are different groups because that does make it harder to communicate inside of our community.
But what we didn't dig into on that episode and what you and I had been recently talking about was that sometimes there are extra groups within our spaces that are not in the lifestyle. And so our community has many groups and some of those groups actually cross the line between in the lifestyle outside lifestyle but if you ask them are you in the lifestyle they might say yes because they're defining their membership by their activities or our activities but i believe believe that the lifestyle being a community, a community is defined by cultural values.
Therefore, to be in the lifestyle, you have to share our value system and not all the groups that are hanging out with us share our value system. Now, some of them are closely aligned, so that's OK. We can share the space, but some of them are not closely aligned. And maybe that's something we need to be aware of because, you know, you are who you hang out with. So our reputation can be on the line.
Diving into this, if lifestyle people, I'm going to try to use air quote, I'm trying to figure out the definitions, how we're going to define all this stuff, because in order to define one thing, it defines the opposite of it and define something else in this whole cascade of definitions the groups that you feel who are part of the who are in the space but not necessarily in the lifestyle how would you what would you who would you say those groups are so i mean obviously there's room for opinions here as well but i mean maybe we could start if it's okay let's start with the groups in the lifestyle because i think that we can see some common ground right so i think within the lifestyle you've obviously got swingers um but you also have the hot wives and husbands um you've got the voyeurs and the exhibitionists these are groups that that share the value system that make up the lifestyle you know values like sex positivity body positivity ethical non-monogamy now non-monogamy might might include touching others or it might just be sharing a space sexually with other people but um but you know each of those is packed sex positivity you know walking away from shame and opening yourself to exploration body positivity um you know self-respect and not being judgmental ethical non-monogamy man that's a huge value because you've got you know honesty and consent respect communication sexual autonomy you know giving your partner the ability to explore sexually within boundaries but those are all so i would say those are three major values of the lifestyle and so you know if you look at the swinger community you look at the hot waves you look at the uh the voyeurs these are people that have those values they're sex positive they're they're body positive it doesn't mean they're they're not self-conscious i mean we all have our our body issues right but but it means we're making an effort to respect other people and ourselves when it comes to our bodies uh instead of saying you know if you don't fit my exact mold i i'm gonna lock myself in my room and you know do my own thing so body positivity and ethical i think those groups are in there even even those who are just looking for a third, they're part of our lifestyle community.
But then we, to your earlier question, there are other groups that share our spaces that would not even consider themselves part of the lifestyle, such as the polyamorous community. They don't consider themselves part of the lifestyle because they have additional values that we don't share. But they come to our spaces. We have a lot of people in lifestyle spaces, some because they're both. You can be in two groups at once. So there are actually polyamorous people who swing. We don't get badges for participating. There's no easy definitions, no easy lines here because people do shift too.
There may be a couple who is full swap, what we would call a swinger couple.
They meet a third and they really, really connect and they may branch over into the polyamory with a third person or with another couple and they become exclusive and that goes into the polyamory definition of a relationship and how they operate but they were in the lifestyle and maybe they still can set themselves and it gets really nebulous and gray and murky trying to figure out exactly where people stand having a macro view of if we're looking at from 10 000 feet up it's a lot easier to see the divisions and the communities and the differences.
But once you're on the ground, say at a party, say a rave, you're in the middle of a lifestyle rave, it's really hard to know who's who when you're down here having a good time. Absolutely. And that's where I think the values come in, because I don't think we have to worry so much about the labeling, though I think words matter. I think we had that conversation last time. Words do matter for clarity of communication. But, you know, I don't think we have to say, oh, you're a poly, you're not a swinger, you shouldn't be here, because, hey, we respect some of the same values.
We share some of the same activities, and therefore we can coexist in this space in a positive way um and same thing with the bdsm community not all bdsm not all people who do bdsm are swingers now you might think that if you go to enough swing clubs because we tend to have dungeons in a lot of the swing clubs but there are a lot of people who are bdsm that are absolutely monogamous and and don't you know share all of the values of of the lifestyle um you got the naturists um some of them do not touch anybody but their own partner and they and they don't understand why we would so again they don't share all of our values but they share some of our values and therefore because the activities of our spaces open the door for them to be able to express themselves in the way they want they share our spaces and that's okay it it can you know require a conversation then you see somebody who looks gorgeous and you know walking around naked to the pool and you walk up and think hey you know totally happened at a nudist resort and you know we're me and my wife were there with a bunch of friends we're all naked at this nudist resort and there was a lady she was gorgeous she was painting she was painting a scene of you know like the woods and stuff that are around this little um nudist camp that we were at i was fascinated by her painting and we ended up chatting it up and talking about the painting and stuff and somehow i don't remember her exact question but she's you know it's basically the question of are you with those swingers over there i was like yeah they're my friends and um i'm one of those people she's like oh okay that's cool i'm not and that was it that that was as far as the conversation we kept talking about her paintings and all this art that she does.
It was great. That was all it took was just like, what group are you in? Are you in this group or are you in this group?
and and you know that that conversation is becoming a necessity in our spaces because of the diversity of the groups within our spaces but that's okay i was on a uh bliss cruise with bella and um we you know we're trying to interact and meet people and i met a lot of people there who were naturists naturists or naturists and that's they were like very clear and upfront about we we are not part of the swinging group um okay there were some of them were wonderful people and enjoyable conversations but, but that conversation becomes necessary so that you don't do anything or cross any lines with them.
Again, I think it's okay that we share spaces, but they're not technically in the lifestyle. We're just sharing a space, but that's okay. I'm okay with welcoming those different groups into our spaces because we have overlap in our values. We don't share every value, but we share enough of them. I don't think that our activities can't be done in a way that's okay for everybody because our values include respect and respecting boundaries and consent. So nobody's going to be put in an uncomfortable position if they choose to join our spaces.
Um, but I think, well, that's what I encountered with the nudist resort nudist camp that we went to was it was a nudist naturalist space. It was their space. And we understood that we're coming into there as a lifestyle group.
The only rule that really applied to us that was different than everyone else's no touching that was that was the one thing they're you know they're hardcore about no touching no hugging no and we have one friend as soon as she gets tequila in her she just wants to climb me like a tree and that was against the rules so going into a different space going into their space i'll say they have a different different set of rules and expectations and we have to respect that. That's how they operate. And that's, you know, we're here. We need to respect their rules.
Conversely, if they're coming into our spaces, whoever it may be, they have to respect our rules too. And I'm envisioning like a vanilla couple coming to one of our parties or something for whatever reason, they just want to have fun and have a good time. They need to be educated on what our etiquette and what our rules are before they ever cross the door. Because you don't want that one jackass husband's like, oh, all these other men are randomly touching these women. Yeah, but they got consent before they did it. You need to understand how we operate first before you come into these spaces.
It gets complicated, again, because there is some overlap.
People in these groups might also be in another group, but ultimately it boils down to if our value system includes respect, we should be able to enter their spaces and behave in a way that doesn't violate their boundaries but if they enter our spaces they should recognize our value system and not have issue with us behaving the way we behave with each other now our values would protect them from being you know pushed into a corner uh you know psychologically in ways they don't like but they have to be able to accept what we do in our spaces because it's our space and in some cases it's not even defined whose space it is it's just a space we all share and we just have to be able to to do that but you know there are more groups though and that's where it gets even more content you get content creators and this is going to make some people cringe a little hit me yeah content creators in of themselves are not part of the lifestyle now you can have someone in the lifestyle who's a content creator again multiple groups but there are people who and and how do you know the difference between someone who's in the lifestyle and creates content and someone who's a content creator who's targeting the lifestyle audience how do you know the difference the values what's their priority is their priority building a fan base is it selling events if every other five seconds you know what you're hearing is their next event that you can buy from them if if you're constantly hearing about you know me me me me um then what you've got is a content creator and no shade on content creators i've ella and i've created content um content creation is perfectly welcome um of course within the boundaries of where you should and shouldn't record things but um and with consent but if your main value is i be popular, I'm going to be famous, that is not a lifestyle value.
But you may be using lifestyle spaces to hunt for your audience and your market. And so I know I'm splitting hairs there because I think there's some amazing content creators out there in the lifestyle.
But then there's some that know i look and i say hmm uh when i hear from them or see them all i ever hear is what i need to buy from them and therefore the lifestyle to me in this case in that case it appears the lifestyle has become really just their their marketing audience but not really their group i could see it as let's say only fans because that's the first one that pops into my head content creator selling content only fans using lifestyle content using the lifestyle to put to make content to sell to the vanilla crowd and selling an image of the lifestyle to the vanilla world, that's not accurate.
And I know there are certain sites, there are porn sites that you go on there and you type in Swinger, you're going to get some stuff that is not accurate and representative of how we operate and how we actually do things.
And not even accurate to what you're seeing, because how many porn sites you go to and you might type, you know, wife sharing and you get 30 videos and and that same video is under 10 other titles that says that this person is not married to that person so they just they knew it was going to sell more if they said this person was married so before content creators start flooding my email with angry emails i'll tell you i respect the space of content creation i'm simply saying that i think there's a difference in the values of some people who say we love the lifestyle and we like photography or video or or whatever and when we put those two things together we naturally end up with content and for exhibitions we like to share it that's that's there's nothing wrong with that but then when you start to really look you go wow there's a very large and growing group out there of people who are just pumping out content and looking for you know ways and places and people to create content and i've met a couple uh of these people in our spaces where you know in conversation it's come out they don't really play but they'll film content with you if you're willing to sign a disclosure yeah so then wait you're not here because you have the values of the lifestyle you're here because there are people who who will sign a disclosed release so that they can make content with you.
And then you might go, so that's a different group then. That's where the group divides. And again, I'm not saying we can't welcome content creators into our spaces. But I think it's important that we recognize that they're not the same thing as a lifestyle group. They're just an adjacent group that shares enough of our values, that likes our activities, that join our space.
But then the dark side is there are groups within our community that I don't think, first of all, they're not in the lifestyle, though though they may claim it and i don't think that we should be welcoming and those groups i think hurt our reputation as well and the the way you tell them apart is that unlike these other groups the bdsm the naturists that share some of our values and therefore our our activities make us you know come together. This group shares none of our values. These groups don't share our values. They just like our activities. And so they invade our spaces.
So I have a feeling we're going to jump into some good stuff here. Let's take a commercial break right here. And when we come back, we're going to talk about these dark groups. Y'all stay tuned. Scarl and well-met listener, Jason summons you to his aid. The ASN Magazine Awards nominations are now open. If you enjoy that other lifestyle, then nominate this amazing show for Best Entertainment Podcast of the year. You can vote once per day. Let us show our support for the best lifestyle podcast out there. Go to ASN lifestyle magazine awards.com or check the show notes and vote now.
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Don't just guess, know your status. stdhero.com has got your back. Get tested today and get in the fun. Welcome back, everybody. This is Jason here at That or the Lifestyle Podcast. I am joined by the wonderful, the magnificent, the supremely intelligent Jay Mohas. He is an erotic novel author, lifestyle aficionado. Him and his wife, Bella, have written more and even more.
Two books, they present the lifestyle in a very very positive light um we got actually for christmas we got our friend a copy of your books she read them and she loved them she loved that you present sex positively that in so many times you see in hollywood and movie tropes and stuff someone has sex something bad happens and you don't do that you show everything in a positive light which i really really dig it fascinates me how erotic uh movies Thank you.
tropes and stuff someone has sex something bad happens and you don't do that you show everything in a positive light which i really really dig it fascinates me how erotic uh movies and even books but especially if you if you see a mainstream movie that's got eroticism in it almost always it's a thriller almost always because someone's getting murdered or someone's getting cheated on or something nefarious is going to happen. I don't know why the mainstream has to always lump eroticism with some kind of bad news.
I guess it's to build the tension, but if you're having sex right, there's going to be plenty of tension, but it's going to be good tension. The other day I was flipping through channels and Friday the 13th was on and it was this one scene. It had the topless. I'm thinking, ah, I saw your titties. Something bad won't happen to you. So yeah, if people want more information about where to find you, where can they get it? Our website is the best place to get our bio and learn about our books and our other adventures.
And that is literally mojasadventures.com which is M-O-J--S, adventures, all one word, dot com. And that's where they'll see the various things we're up to, information about our books. Good deal.
So before the break, you teased it a little bit, dark groups within the lifestyle, dark groups who are invading the lifestyle, who are nefarious and who do not share our values who are they so again open to interpretation and opinion uh this would be my opinion so don't send angry mail to jason over this but uh one of the groups i'm gonna i'm gonna call out right here is the cheaters um the cheaters they love the lifestyle because they think hey it's free sex and for whatever reason they want more sex they want sex with somebody different they for whatever reason that they're not being faithful to their spouse they look at the lifestyle as a place that they think they should be welcome because everybody's having sex with everybody in their perspective and that's not true but what they don't share with us is the value system.
They're not being ethical because they're not being honest. They're not respecting their partner. They just feel like because we are sexually free and expressive and exploring and because we do have sex with people other than our partners, then that makes us the same. And that's because they're looking at activities and comparing it to what they want to do, their activities. They're not looking at values. And based on values, they're not in our community. And because their values are actually contrary to our values, I don't feel like we should even be welcoming to that group.
Because I think they hurt our reputation. Oh, no, not at all. People get the swinger community like we're predators. Like, oh, you know, we can't, we can't trust you. You're going to try to steal my wife. That is the last thing a swinger should ever do. A swinger respects boundaries, respects their partner, you know, respects consent, uh, both of the person that they're engaging, but also the person's partner. So a swinger is never going to be able to be a predator I don't know.
you know respects consent uh both of the person that they're engaging but also the person's partner so a swinger is never going to be able to be a predator within the definition of being a swinger but a cheater is and so those cheaters they love to try to infiltrate and at one time because i'm an old guy um those people would have been shown the door really quickly once they were found out at this time in my recent experience in the lifestyle as i have observed in some clubs and and parties they may be shunned by some but not by all and the places themselves oftentimes say they paid the fee to get in so i guess they're functioning as a single man or a single woman so in some people's minds you know if they're willing to live with a constant not justifying this at all i am not saying this is right i'm just running through this mental exercise if a couple is approached by we'll say a dude and he's like and it comes out that he is married then probably is the attitude of, well, he's going to deal with the consequences with his wife.
We don't have to, which I find very wrong. and so that's a pragmatic way to address the lack of ethics in the situation that people might use, especially if there's an attraction and for whatever reason, they really want to make this happen. But see, maybe again, because I'm old school, but Bella and I, when we connect with people, we want to share the values. We want to know that we're on the same wavelength so that we all know what we're going into it for, and we all know what we're getting out of it. And then that's, that's simple. That's clean.
That way we don't worry about there being problems with boundaries later down the road. Or pissed off spouse. Right. Drama. Drama's not fun. Drama. Drama. So, so yeah, those cheaters, that's a separate group that finds its way into the lifestyle spaces at times.
And they're defensive like who are you to tell me what i should do with my life i don't i don't i'm not telling you what to do with your life just don't do it here because people are going to think you and me are the same and we're not right yep everything i'm doing is consented by my wife encouraged by my wife uh everything she's doing is consented and encouraged by me you know that's not the same thing as i snuck away from my partner she doesn't know i'm doing this and sometimes they find somebody else like them and they show up at a party as a couple and i've had this happen where i've met people who are a couple and you get to talking oh we're not really together're not really together.
Oh, so, you know, you're dating or no, no, you know, we just couldn't get through the door if we didn't have. Right. We just click together long enough to get past security and now we're going to separate. And now we're going to do our own thing. We're not even going to do it together. So if you want one of us, that's fine. The other one's not going to be involved. We don't share our values. I don't feel like they should be welcomed in our space. I like that. I'm digging it. I agree with you on that one.
And I think it kind of also goes into the single people who are there just hunting for no strings attached sex. Now, don't get me wrong. I believe in single swingers. There are people out there who are single and they agree with our value system. They're there because of the value system. And they're saying, I believe in ethical non-monogamy. I believe in body positivity. I'm sexually positive. These are my people. It's almost like somebody made an online course that's available at thatotherlifestyle.com to teach single men the values of the lifestyle. It's available right now.
Go check out my website. I have the course. Yeah, and I didn't think of it this way, but you're absolutely right. It teaches the values of the lifestyle and how to be in the lifestyle respectfully and properly and know the etiquette versus you just learning about a party.
You sneak your way in and now you think you can have sex with everyone right and that's the thing those two you can be a single swinger if you are a swinger or within the lifestyle you may not be in that particular group of the lifestyle but you could be in the lifestyle as a single it's just that you're there for the same reasons as the other people if you're there because you're horny uh and that's your one and only value i'm going to get laid tonight well you're not going to behave the way we would like to see people behave in our spaces um you're likely to say and do things that are going to cause problems if not for you for other people and so those those sex uh hunting single people who, you know don't respect other people's boundaries they don't respect the one of the one of the ways you can know this the difference between somebody who um has the values and doesn't and they're a single man for example is when you go to the bathroom he walks up to your wife and starts conversation and then you come back and go to say hello and he runs away you're like have you seen that oh yeah and then either a he's just really uh you know new to the lifestyle and hasn't figured out the the way things work or b he's just a single guy looking for easy sex and when you come back he running the scenario out like what do they think is going to happen that the husband goes to the bathroom he's now talking to the wife he's going to say something so magical and wonderful or pull his dick out in inappropriate situations and she's going to be so entranced by his pecker or his words that she's going to immediately forget every single boundary they have and run off to a sex room with this random dude.
That doesn't fucking happen. I don't care what porn tells you. I don't care what you think in your head. It's the eventuality. Yeah, that's the problem. You hit it right on the head, though. Their expectations were developed by their porn habits.
So they watched porn and they thought, this is how it's got to work um if i do this they're going to have to respond this way but you know by those same expectations every time you know a woman's car breaks down on the side road she's going to have a gangbang with the mechanics i mean you can't let porn shape your your perspective of the world and i tell single guys like look if you send out a hundred messages on adult site or or something and you have one response that doesn't mean it worked that means you failed 99 times and i imagine these guys who go to the clubs and they're swinging with every single woman whose husband happens to go to the bathroom it doesn't work and it may it may work one time or in his head, he thinks it's going to work.
Like you're fucking up, dude. You were fucking up left and right. And now people know how you are and you're predatory. And I think predatory is the best word for this, for these groups, these dark groups that are coming in.
Yeah, they're predatory towards a lifestyle and trying to use it for personal gain to get laid to you know have an ego trip or something like that it's predatory and the lifestyle should not be predatory at all i don't know the i'm gonna go as far as saying we shouldn't be welcoming to the people of those groups because i think when you mix them in it brings us down yeah now by no mean am I saying we should be exclusive to the people we can share values with and I think that enriches our community.
I'm okay with people who are poly or BDSM or nudists saying, hey, we want to come to your parties. Okay.
Now, it does make it harder for those of us who are E&M going, we're somebody enm we got to go you know are you before we find that that's okay um as long as we can all respect each other but there has to be a line that we draw and i don't know if it's an effort to be uber inclusive or if it's perhaps generational i don't know what happened that i don't see the kind of line being drawn today that i once did where they said oh you're in the cheating group you can't be part of this space we we we don't let you into our groups or parties again there may be some out there there's probably some club owners going we would never let that in who are listening to your podcast maybe it's maybe it's business maybe that's the differentiator is you know that's some of it if i can get a door fee off of this guy i don't care if he's married or not i i just want my hundred bucks for him to come in the club and as long as he doesn't cause a lot of problems you know no harm no foul well and the other question there is how do you know right the guy coming to the door is not necessarily going to announce he's a cheater um and saying you're not gonna you know do a background check on everybody who walks to the door so i get it these people are going to find their way in um i believe i i know that to be true but there was a an attitude at one time where that person would probably not waste his money to the next party because everyone in that room, once they became aware that this person was there in disrespect to their spouse in some dishonest situation, whoever they talked to about that would have been like, yeah, we're not interested.
But now that's not the universal response from our community to people of that group. And as a result, they figure, well, you know, hey, if I get a 50% response, it's something. If I get a 25% response, it's something. It's still easier than going to the nightclub and hitting on, you know, people who are there for their bridal, you know, party.
So, so you know they still think our spaces are going to be more interesting more exciting but if they found that they got an almost universal rejection from the lifestyle community going we're not the same do not mistake your activity hunting to be the same thing as our value system um and if that was clear it just wouldn't be worth it to them and if those people were known to the organizations the organizations were you know hey you cannot come back because you know what you're here to do is not connecting but as you said i think there is a factor of business because well if you go back 20 years the spaces were driven by the desire to have a place to go to meet your community but there was a lot less spaces then now there's a lot of spaces and therefore there's a lot of competition how do you keep your business running if you start excluding people so i see the value in the community and the tribe, the local tribe to counteract some of that nefarious people sneaking in.
If you know everybody in your local community, not that you're going to have sex with them, but you know them and you have a tribe of people locally that you get along with and have the same values of you, whenever there are people trying to infiltrate the spaces who don't have the values, then people can pick them out a lot faster because we recognize who they are. We know who's who. If there is a new person coming in, multiple people are going to vet them and feel them out. And then we're going to know what value are they coming in with.
But there's a lot of butts in this to counteract that though, the people who are not, who don't want to be part of the community. That's one group that I, I don't know how I feel about them. There there's, there's couples out there. We'll say swingers who just dip in. They don't want to be part of the community. They don't share the same values. They dip in, you know, they, they just want to get laid.
They dip in they don't want to be part of the community they don't share the same values they dip in you know they they just want to get laid they dip in they get laid they bounce out and seeing those kind of couples because i do feel the lifestyle is a community we need more community but to have people just bounce in and then bounce out that i don't know how i feel about them that's that's another group i'm like because then i then i have questions about oh do you respect all the values that we have a big one is like sti testing the couples that just bounce in and bounce out do you have the same values towards testing as safety as i do are you just going to tell me what i need to hear and then you're just going to balance and we never see you again well there's a's a lot of truth in that because, you know, one of our values, the E&M value system includes, you know, respecting others' honesty.
And so testing fits right in there because, you know, when someone says, hey, we only play with people who have been tested, people who follow certain precautionary measures and that person says, I good well if that's if they aren't getting tested they can't answer that question honestly um and they're not showing respect for their partners if they're being careless um so absolutely that's a value of ours and these people who are uh let's say the the single sex seekers or and it could be couples even that show up just for the sex you know do they share our values just because they're there as a couple having sex not necessarily and i want to slot that right under body positivity because you have to be positive about your body positive about your test result negative test results positive about negative test results we'll say it that way yeah i i i agree with you that there there's and that has to that goes into a bigger sociological concept with groups because um you know there are groups that are in and groups that are out and so uh if you're drawing lines to say you have to have these standards to get into our group that's different than saying these are the lines we draw that will push you out of our group that's true and it's tough because I'll see you next time.
say you have to have these standards to get into our group that's different than saying these are the lines we draw that will push you out of our group and it's tough because in groups are are more exclusionary by nature and out groups you know are are less exclusionary and again i think some of it comes back to today there are a lot of people who are so worried about being inclusive in every way that they don't want to be making any kind of uh we'll call them judgments because that's what they are judgments about a person's motives or um you know person's reasons for doing things but i i think that the test has to come back to values it's not their activities it's not their their in you know their intentions that we're trying to measure it's what do they value and values show a conversation and spending some time with somebody you're going to see their values um but you know some people are lifestylers who are always looking for the new the new excitement and some people are lifestyles who are looking for deep relationships with other people, not necessarily crossing into the poly line, but still want to have a relationship with people before they cross certain sexual boundaries.
And it's okay for all of those groups to be within our community, as long as the communication helps us to sort out who is our tribe within that particular community, we have to figure out where our lines are going to be to say, these people hurt our reputation, these people hurt our sense of self, they hurt our standards by being here. I like that word, standards, having a base standard level to the lifestyle community.
And what's bad about the lifestyle you it's hard to learn it until you're in it until someone it's word it's oral we have an oral tradition huh oral um as opposed to anal tradition we have an oral tradition in the lifestyle that in order to learn a lot and i talk about you know the lifestyle every single week talk about etiqu and all this stuff. But until you actually sit down with somebody who walks you through the etiquette, who walks you through it, gives you that oral tradition that we have, it's hard to learn it.
It's hard to jump in and it's hard to figure out if your values do align with the lifestyle community. Absolutely.
And that gets more complicated when that oral tradition is muddied up by the changing of our language so now who you learned it from circle back to the last episode we did yeah because you know that now the person you learned it from might tell you what is what and then when you talk to the next person it doesn't exactly make sense because they learned it differently and so uh i i don't think we can make the lifestyle a membership only group where people sign a contract they agree to certain values and they won't do certain activities i don't want to see that i don't want to see that kind of uh thing but i still think and if you like the word standards we'll stick with that one because i'm just throwing words out here i like the i like the three pillars that you lay out, and I've used them, and I'm going to keep on using them.
The body positivity, that is a huge one. No matter what you look like, you're going to be welcome. Now, you may not be— And you should be welcome. You should be welcome. You may not be welcomed in some lifestyle spaces by some people, but that's because those people don't share our values.
They're just sharing our space because we do have people in the lifestyle who are there just because they're vain oh shit oh yeah they're in our space just because they want to yeah they just want to they want to flex by the side of the pool and get people to be impressed they don't want to touch anyone they don't want to be touched they don't really want to interact with anybody they just hey i can get naked here and show everyone my body so i'm going to show up and i i spend all week in the gym now I'm going to come here and flex the pool.
Um, and you know, no harm, no foul of that's, if that's what they enjoy, maybe they're a little bit of exhibitionism involved in that. I don't know when, when you, when you put it all together, I don't want people to be told you're not part of our group.
You can't come in just because of which group they're in until they reach that standard where we go there's no longer a common value in fact your values are contrary to our values and then i feel like it's okay for us to draw a line yes and then the other one sex positive and that can encompass a lot of different groups and a lot of different people but and with these values, and the consent is a third, with the values, you have to figure out what they mean to you and ask, does this apply to me? Am I being body positive? Am I being sex positive? Am I respecting consent?
These are things that people have to figure out on their own, I feel, that this is the standard that we're looking for. Do you fit it?
it are you okay with this and they have to figure out what is their own interpretation of it you know some people just don't respect it some people don't want to abide by it like you say the dark the dark people i like that the dark groups infiltrating it the content creators and and the cheating husbands and all that they're just not respecting well before you get me angry male i don't think the content creators are part of the the dark groups that are part of the groups yeah they're part of the groups that are not necessarily in the lifestyle but their community they fit into to a group that's parallel to our community okay so on the street that is ethical non-monogamy, we've got the lifestyle house, and we party all damn night.
We share a hedge and a driveway with polyamory people. They're a lot quieter. They don't do a whole lot. Across the street is the content creators, and they just got cameras set up around the house. Yes. Just drawing out the nice neighborhood that we all live on. We've got the BDSM people. They have a lot of stuff hanging from their front door from their trees. So we're making a neighborhood. We are a neighborhood here under ethical non-monogamy. We all get along. And then you got the people who don't live in the community but they've come to steal something from somebody's house.
They're the people who came into the community. There's our cheaters. They just want to take something. And then they're going to leave our community until they decide to come back and try to take Thank you. from somebody's house. They're the people who came into the community. There's our cheaters. They just want to take something, and then they're going to leave our community until they decide to come back and try to take something again. Yes. It's a gated community, but the gate's super easy. The code's really easy. It's 1, 2, 3, 4.
Y'all can just come right on in, make yourselves at home, figure out where you want to stay. Any other groups that we need to warn ourselves about? You know, does it pop into your brain?
Nothing that that's popping into my brain but i will say that probably anyone listening to this who has observations of this type probably can come up with several of their own and they'll be like oh what about this one about this one and what i would encourage people to do is just be careful because it would be very easy for this conversation to degrade and start to sound like we're trying to label people for the purpose of of excluding them and that's not the goal i think the more groups we identify within our community that just means we're a richer community i think that it always comes back to if you say hey you know what they're not really the same as we are, but they're sharing our space.
That's not a bad thing until you go, hey, they're not really the same as we are because they are the opposite of what we are. They just may like some of the activities we do, but they're doing them for the opposite reasons. That's where it's okay to draw the line.
And so I just want people to be careful that while you may share the same perspective that i'm i'm giving that there's multiple groups not to let that be degrade into what we're trying not to be what is it which is an exclusionary group that says you know you have to be this and only this or else you can't come we don't want that, that's's not good for anybody. My take on it is if I'm at a party or something and I meet somebody and they're like, oh, hey, yeah, I'm polyamory. Tell me more about it. I want to know more. I want to know more about you as a person.
I want to know more about how you're identifying yourself. I want to know more about why you're in this space.
Not to question it i just want to know why i just want to connect on a human level and find out more and that in like you say enriches our community by having all these different variables and different players in the story that makes the community a lot better because and you might end up being in that yeah you might end up sharing a community because you know uh came in into the lifestyle, and then because of our particular enjoyment of photos and sharing things, we ended up making some content. And so you could say we're content creators.
We had content that we published out there, and still probably will, so busy but i mean so we fit into that group as well uh but it's not our only way into the lifestyle space we're here because we're in the lifestyle but we would probably not have explored that if not having had the chance to meet some content creators see what they do talk about them and saying hey that that could be fun to do so i think it just is better that we are welcoming Thank you.
some content creators see what they do talk about them and saying hey that that could be fun to do so i think it just is better that we are welcoming but it's also okay to identify and taking bdsm i think is a great example you're talking to people who are avid bdsm enjoyers followers i don't know the right word for that at people who do bdsm when you sit down and talk to them about and you ask them why why do you enjoy this particular activity in a nice way because you really want to know more they will go down a rabbit hole they will go deep into all the various aspects all the things that they do and it's fascinating stuff so by having that conversation you learn about a new thing that you might be into you might enjoy some of their activities absolutely what they do well jay anything else you want to leave us with today uh well i think i've i've uh filled your brain with a lot of sociology here that you may or may not have wanted to have in there we always if if the lifestyle is a community it is a culture then i feel it is appropriate to apply these sociological thoughts or anthropologic.
Look, I talk for a living and I talk good. Anthropology. Applying those concepts to what we do makes this better. It makes it a better culture because we are analyzing it. We are flying 10,000 feet up in the air. We're looking down on our community and identifying all these different little pieces of it. But that's a good thing. And the lifestyle is as deep as you want it. It can either be a puddle or it can be the ocean. It is as deep as you want to take it. These conversations enrich what we do.
And I know there's listeners out there who are going to be just mind fucked by all the stuff we talked about and i hope it sparks conversations and that's the key because what i really hope is that people who listen to something like this walk away not with the idea that we need everything you know buttoned up and labeled and lines drawn it's not at all the goal that i have when i talk like this my goal is that we can have the conversation educate each other in the conversation about what makes us different what makes us the same that my goal is that when people have these kinds of conversations they can discover more about themselves and their lifestyle because you know some people come into the lifestyle with one idea of why they're here and what makes the lifestyle awesome is they discover 20 more things that they would not have been exposed to that they would not have learned about that makes their life better for them and that's great and some people come into the lifestyle and they enjoy it and other people may leave the lifestyle but i think the conversations and opening their minds to exploring this diversity is a positive thing until we reach the line the standard where we have to say do we really want to be associated with that group and i think the answer should be no and i think that makes the lifestyle better i like i like that i i like what you said i like how uh you pointed out the dark groups i agree with them.
I agree with makes the lifestyle better. I like what you said. I like how you pointed out the dark groups. I agree with them. I agree with you wholeheartedly. The cheaters are a problem. And the people, the single men and women who are just in here to get laid, that can be a problem too. So Jay, thank you for hanging out with us. If people want more information, if people want to go look you up, where can they find you? Best place is our website mojasadventures.com M-O-J-A-S, adventures, all one word, dot com. And they will find our books, the first two books, More and Even More.
And the third one is teased there for Forevermore, which hopefully will be out in about a month.
And I'm super excited about that because we've had a lot of people reaching out, asking's it coming and it's coming i promise they want more yeah that's right they want more um and i think they they feel like you know there's some questions lingering from book two that they they're they're waiting for the answer so um so yeah uh but that and then of course our other adventures as well um you know we we uh promote several things for the lifestyle because we think it it in some way can contribute to people's enjoyment so um there are websites and then we promote a particular podcast if we're a big fan of called that other lifestyle hey on our website hey plug in me i appreciate that well thank you so much jay for hanging out with us.
It has been a wonderful conversation, as always. You've definitely given me a lot of stuff to think about. Y'all have a wonderful day. Tune in for the next episode. Have a great night, everybody.
