Explore the uncharted territories of taboo with me, Venus, as I welcome Pagan, a race play aficionado and founder of the The4Whoresmen, on a journey that delves into his unique sexual interests and experiences. Buckle up as we venture into Pagan s story of his upbringing in a hyper-religious environment and the subsequent questioning of his beliefs, leading him to the thrilling and provocative world of interracial cuckolding and race play. Brace yourself for an intriguing tale of a sex magick triad ceremony, where a woman pledged herself to Pagan and the interracial lifestyle. Discover the unique energy dynamics involved and how this ceremony fostered a profound, powerful connection.As we delve deeper, the conversation unveils a crucial and sensitive topic - race play and the N-word. Pagan, drawing from his personal experiences, underscores the significance of consent and dialogue when adventuring into race play. The discussion also focuses on how real-world dynamics shape our kinks, and the necessity for permission in race play. Settle in for an intense episode!Links:Pagan on Twitter - https://twitter.com/PaganBlackBullPillow Talk Events - https://www.venuscuckoldress.com/eventsDestination Links for Venus - https://linktr.ee/venuscuckoldressLearn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices❤️Venus Connections❤️ - Matchmaking for loving cuckolding relationships and female-led relationships. Learn more at https://www.venusconnections.com/ Give her what she wants 💦 🍆 the Thrum - triple the pleasure, feel the difference 🤤 BUY NOWDestination Links for Venus - https://lnk.bio/VenusPodcast
Transcript
Hey, are you looking for a hot wife? Maybe you're looking for a cuckold relationship. Then you need to join Venus Connections matchmaking service. It's totally private, it's fun blind dates, and all members are vetted. And it works. There was even a wedding last year and there'll be another one next year. It's definitely hard to find your life partner. I know. And it's even harder to find this kind of relationship. But you'll never win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket, right?
So join VenusConnections.com. That's VenusConnections.com. And find the relationship of your dreams. Coming up on this episode of the Venus Cuckoldress podcast. There is a taboo and a charge around it. So there's power there. So I'm interested in harnessing that. So I had a couple and they wanted to, I'll say like sit in ceremony with me and do some sex magic that was specifically interracial. They came out, and then it was her cuck, myself, and her, and we're in a triangle.
And in the center of it, you know, surrounded by candles, and in the center of it, we the incense burning and i went through a ceremony with them and speaking of race play like she calls me black god that's what she calls me okay which is so fucking hot you know when people get married and then they remove their vows type thing yeah she wanted to be married to the interracial lifestyle and she wanted me to officiate that Thank you. People get married and then they remove their vows type thing.
Yeah. She wanted to be married to the interracial lifestyle. And she wanted me to officiate that.
You are now listening to the Venus Cuckolders podcast, a place to learn all things cuckolding for the curious the passionate and the sexually empowered woman who wants it all go to venuscuckoldress.com you'll find the new queen's quarters fan destination book a one-to-one chat with me, listen to the private podcast, and even get access to my secret Snapchat group where I share some of my most intimate encounters. Now sit back, make yourself comfortable, and let's dive right into this episode.
Welcome everyone to this show. Welcome. I'm your host Venus. This is the Venus Cuckolders podcast. Thanks for joining me today. Today I have such a special episode, as I'm sure you heard in the trailer. It's epic. I have a very special guest, my friend Pagan. He is a race play enthusiast and the founder of the Four Horsemen. Yes, you'll learn what that is. And let me start out by saying that not all cuckolding couples enjoy interracial cuckolding. This is just one aspect of it.
But for those of you who do enjoy interracial cuckolding you are likely going to love this show today pagan shares a very sexy story of a sex magic ceremony he was a part of recently where they harnessed the power of bbc and she get this married into the interracial lifestyle. Yes, this was an actual ceremony. It's like nothing I have ever heard before. This is really on a whole other level. And I think it's pretty fucking cool.
Keep an eye out for an upcoming Pillow Talk event where I will have Pagan and the couple on to talk about all the further details of this event, this ceremony that they did, because there's so much more to it. There's so many juicy details that we didn't get into in the show today, but I can't wait to dive into that. So make sure you go to venuscuckoldress.com, check out the events page.
And shortly there will be some information posted on there about the Pillow Talk event that will feature Pagan and this amazing couple. All right. Are you ready to jump into this episode today? I'm so ready. Let's do it. Here we go. All right. Joining me on the show today, I have my very good friend, Pagan. He is the founder of the Four Horsemen, and he's going to explain what that's all about. And he also describes himself as a practitioner of consensual, ethical race play as art.
And yes, we are going to get into that. So welcome to the show, Pagan. Say hello to all of the listeners. Hello, all of Venus's listeners. Hello, Venus. It's good to be back. How are you? Oh, great. I am wonderful. I'm so excited for this conversation.
So for those of you listening, yes, Pagan has been on the show once before, and I think it was, I don't know, a couple years years ago maybe and um yeah we yeah we talked about gang bangs we talked about setting the mood we talked about race play so it was a great episode and we're going to kind of dive into things a little bit more for this show today about the bull experience so um i'm super excited to be able to have this conversation I will link the previous episode that you've been on on the show.
I'll link it in the show notes for today. So if you're interested in catching that, you can. Okay, Pagan. So tell us in a nutshell, your personal story. How did you come to where you are today? uh, in a nutshell, in a nutshell, I'm a preacher's kid. Um, and I, it hasn't been lost on me how many, uh, people that were raised in a hyper religious environment end up freaky as people on your podcast.
Um, so I think that that may be where it starts in terms of, um, when you put someone in a bottle, they want to break out of the bottle, you know? So, um, I think that that kind of led me to starting to question things, but I, it was really cloistered, hyper-religious, um, environment.
And then when I started to question things and look outside the box there's this theory I have that we are who we are until the moment they smack you on your ass when you come out of your mother like there's a you that is uninfluenced by the outside world and then you get pulled out and smacked on the ass and there's fluorescent lights and somebody Thank you. that is uninfluenced by the outside world.
And then you get pulled out and smacked on the ass and there's fluorescent lights and somebody's cutting an umbilical cord and they're saying, you got to do this and that. And it starts right there. And it never ends until we stop it. So I stopped it at one point. I'm so lucky that I was able to just say, wait, I want to get off the train. And then I started to figure out what I wanted to do. And part of that was I've always been sexual.
It's always been I was I was a virgin when I got married at 22. That's how cloistered and religious it was. So and I remember because my wife was more experienced than me. She was, she was in my religion, but she had got kicked out for fucking. So that tells you a lot about the kind of guy I was. Like I was already looking for like, yeah, I want more. I don't want a virgin too. You know, two of us can't be virgins in a room.
But it was interesting because on our wedding night, she like okay this isn't your first time and it was but i was just i've always been attuned to sexuality so anyway that was kind of my journey and then once i started to question things i got married too young there nothing wrong with us. We weren't cheating or anything like that. But I just had to step away and say, like, I've got to figure out myself first. So I got divorced.
And I also, and because of my religion, I had to leave the religion. And I had to leave my wife and all my friends at the same time. So it just snapped my reality in half, you know. yeah um but i gotta say it was all worth it because i got to that that baby before it got smacked and i asked myself what do i think what do i want not with society or religion or family or all three of them working together what is my for instance moral values as opposed to what the religion says they are? Yeah.
You know, what do I feel about gay people, as opposed to what my religion taught me since I was a child to think about them? Right. You know, these kinds of questions, some people just never ask. So that led me into my first forays after I got divorced into the lifestyle. And I remember the first thing I did, Venus, was there was a woman who was in my small town on the East Coast and she was doing content. But this was back in the day before OnlyFans and all that.
And so I went to a content party because like most single guys, you go to the first thing someone invites you to that's the thing so i did that and that's what led me to say the first party i remember i was in that room it's a bunch of guys one girl shooting content i remember looking around going okay this guy's really cool this guy is really cool the rest of these guys not so much and i started i didn't know them but i was formulating the four horsemen um at that time so that can kind of lead us to that i guess Thank you.
the rest of these guys, not so much. And I started, I didn't know them, but I was formulating the four horsemen at that time. So that can kind of lead us to that, I guess. Yes. So that does lead us to the four horsemen. So I love the name. What exactly, what, what is the four horsemen?
So the four horsemen, and you're right uh the reason why it's called the four horsemen is because number one it sounds fucking cool the second thing is though i wanted the number to be small um i don't want people to think they can get me for 12 guys or you know giant gangbanks there's there's crews out there that do that that's great um More power to them. My thing is more quality over quantity. So four is like the maximum that I usually put together. And that's for a woman that can handle it.
Most of the time, most women can handle four of us, you know, like maybe the average guy sure but um you, these are guys that are that I've scoped out. And to answer your question, I'm doing the work of when a woman says, hey, I like you. Do you have a friend? I'm doing the work of finding those guys ahead of time so I can immediately say, yeah. And you don't have to worry about I found this guy on FetLife. I found this guy on, you know, AFF or whatever.
I'm going to put them all in the same room and I'm going to expect this to magically go well with people fucking who've just met and all their egos involved and all that. The chances that that's going to go as smoothly as it should for your optimum experience as a woman or a couple is highly unlikely. I can bring my guys with me and we've played in this sandbox before, so you can just relax. So that's the four horsemen.
So it's, so you have this group of vetted guys who, you know, you guys all just work well together in the bedroom. Exactly. Just like on your report card in kindergarten plays well with others yes so and so you're available for couples uh or single ladies i'm assuming and um and do they like like do they book you or is this like a service for hire or what is this it is not for hire uh you're not the first person that has admonished me that I should be doing this for some kind of monetary gain.
I am, I'm reticent to do that. And I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but, um, and you know more about this than I do, Venus. When something you love becomes something you get paid for, something has to change. And I don't want anything to change. I like it the way it is. Where I come from, we call it, it's for the love, not the paycheck. And that's where I want to keep it. It's something I enjoy. And don't get me wrong. I put together a thing, a hotel suite.
um you know I live in, you know, Los Angeles now and it's not cheap, you know. So when I put something together, I do ask people or the guys to contribute because let's face it, I'm bringing them free pussy. So step up. But the general thing that I try to keep in mind, and this is just me being, this is my worldview. I'm not going to ask the same of everybody. Um, I'm in a position where I can figure out how to make this thing happen.
And if a guy doesn't have as much money as the next guy, I still want him to be a part of it. Yeah. So there's been times when I'm just like, Hey man, um, just bring the water, like bring a case of water, you know, because that takes one thing off my plate and I'm not humping a case of water up to the room. Yeah. So, you know, I try to include as opposed to exclude. So that's another thing about the money thing. So, you know, I'm for now, it's a it's kind of a free service.
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and are are these all like black bulls or or yes okay yeah yeah that's just my brand you know there's bulls of every race yeah um but um as we'll get into later um incorporating race into this dynamic you know it's something I invented. If you look up cuckling, you're going to notice a pattern. Just a little, just a little bit in there. But I've leaned into that. I've leaned into like, that's the brand. Because, you know, you know, let's be honest.
If people are hitting me up nine times out of 10, they're not just randomly blindly just saying, Oh, a guy, I didn't look at the pictures. They're, they're looking for a black male for whatever the reason. So I'm like, cool. I will, I will provide that for you. And if you want others, um, again, there's guys out there that will do that. Just not my brand. My niche is very, uh, specific. Yeah. Okay. Let's, let's dive into it because I love this topic. I love it.
It's also very controversial and it's hard to get people to talk about it it is I would imagine for you yeah yeah like uh but yeah I hear you it was like what two three years ago I started doing pillow talk events and I remember like the minute I would bring up race play it would be like fucking crickets like yes yes silence in the room yeah the, yeah, it's 2023 Venus. I don't know. I mean, you can't talk about race openly and then you're mixing sex in with it. Are you crazy?
You can't speak about it out loud. I mean, what are we doing? Yeah, exactly. But, but honestly, honestly, this is not something, I mean, yes, I think a sexual preference for black men I mean that's just something that happened to me naturally I don't really think it was something that I was like oh I want to do that but but so that there's been a preference there But as far as like race play, okay, I would never have thought that I would be into that, like ever.
And it's only because it was forced on me. And I like that sounds bad. But it was it was dropped on me. Yeah, it sounds bad, but also hot as fuck.
I never would have consented consented to it beforehand the use of the n-word i was like there's no way that like that is a hard no never do i want to use that or have that used in the room or anything like no and i knew i but the the my cuck boyfriend that i was with i knew that shit turned him on and i never understood it and i told him i was like no there's no fucking way and then this bull this black bull that a first time i'd ever met him he knew nothing about me or my boyfriend and he fucking drops the n-word in the middle of our fucking I was like, and my boyfriend's listening on the phone.
And I was like, Oh, my God, I am making me say it. And I was making me say it to my boyfriend. And I was just like, level 1000 uncomfortable as fuck, but also oddly turned on.
oh my god okay can i just say something yes no one wants me to hear what the fuck i'm talking about hearing you with that story is what everyone is here for so okay let me just let me just ask you one question and then i'll answer all okay you are a person and this is something that i would i would send out to all the listeners venus like many people clearly is a person who looked at clouds from both sides you were on one side of it saying fuck no this is offensive to me and what that sounds like and you can correct me if i'm wrong that was your real world politics yeah that was venus who goes out in the world's like i'm not using the n-word like what the fuck that's offensive that's wrong no and that was your real world politics now you're in a scene in a bedroom right yeah that's not the real world when that door closes that's your private space where all that kinky shit can come out you know yeah we know that people do some stuff in the bedroom or the dungeon or whatever that doesn't belong in the real world in fact the real world informs what you find kinky in that space the fact that you're let's say you're a let's say you're a hyper feminist, right?
And you're like, I don't put up with any shit from a man. I take charge, blah. A lot of those women in the bedroom want to give up that power and be called slut and whore or whatever. Not in the real world. Are you kidding? She'll punch you in the face. But because she's that in the real world, it turns her on so much more in the bedroom. Right. So my question to you is, because you looked at it from both sides and a lot of your listeners are on one side of the clouds right now, what the fuck?
They're the old you, right? Yes. What would you tell them about how you were able to come to enjoy something that you thought, what did you say, like times 10,000 or whatever? No. What would you say to those listeners? And then I'll go back to not interviewing and be the interviewer. Okay. I would definitely not recommend dropping this shit on somebody without consent, without talking about it beforehand.
However, I would, like I said, I would not have been okay with it beforehand, but, but the fact that it was such a weird, crazy experience because I was having this real fucking flood of emotions of like uncomfortable, but also so turned on in the moment because of my boyfriend's reaction.
and I was having this real fucking flood of emotions of like uncomfortable but also so turned on in the moment because of my boyfriend's reaction and I was just like oh damn what have I opened here and I remember the very first time that you and I started talking and I think I said something about race play and you were like oh yes I don't remember that but that that fucking song is like me. I don't remember, but that song is like me.
And so I just feel like, you know, there has to be a lot of communication and consent. I mean, that is paramount. I would never fucking bring it. I never bring it up with a guy unless he brings it up to me, like ever.
But you never really know what's going to turn you gonna turn you on i mean i had there's no fucking way i would have signed up for that but i was just like in the moment wow what the fuck did i just experience yeah and the one last thing you said it was turning your boyfriend on it turned you on yes but outside of your boyfriend Venus, did it turn you on? Oh, I don't know if it would have. Okay. I don't know.
I think that was like a – I honestly don't know if – I think that was like the one part that for me made it like okay in that moment where I was like, okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. This is good for him.
And then – but man, it turned me on so much that i was like all right and now you don't need a cuck to enjoy you enjoy it on your own right oh yeah yeah okay so okay now i'll go back to answer your question but i know i know everybody wanted to hear your story okay so uh what you just talked about was permission um i get it if you're white in this world you need permission from black people okay you know we've we've all watched uh a comedy show or been at one where the the racial joke comes up and then certain people look at that group of people make sure they're laughing first right.
Right. Because they don't feel permission to, because we're in a hypersensitive world. In 2023, sorry to be the old guy yelling at the kids on my lawn, but the world that we're in has progressed in so many great ways racially, but like humans do, we swing the pendulum so far that we're in a world where you can't even talk about race or bring it up usually. People are so reticent, especially if you're white. You're just like, fuck that. I'm not going to get involved. I'm just going to be quiet.
And that's why you have crickets on those pillow talks. People are, they have thoughts, but they're not going to express them publicly. I'm like, fuck all that noise. I don't give a fuck. This is something that we all think about. And if you hide it, that's fine, but it's still there. And I rather talk about this. So what you needed was permission. That bull didn't do it in the right way, as you pointed out, but he got the right result.
He gave you permission by starting it, and then you took it and ran with it, and now you enjoy it even more than you did before.
So, yes, you should ask for permission first first um you know i can even talk to you about a thing that i did recently in a minute that was that elevated race play in my um experience to a whole nother level that but i didn't start off by bringing in the n-word into the fucking conversation off the top like this guy but i can find out if you like race play um by just asking us something that doesn't have like you know something that's so charged in it by just saying asking you the question like do you like to worship blackness that question that tells me that you're into the racial aspect of it.
And then those people, when they lean in, then I lean in more and then they lean in and then we're using maybe the N word pretty soon. But it all depends and it caters to the person. That's one thing that bulls have to remember. Don't have a preformed thing from your last experience or your last thousand experiences that you fully inform the next experience with. It should be partially informed by everything you learned because that's called wisdom.
But you shouldn't bring that with you and go, I know exactly what these next people... No, you don't. These next people are new people. So make sure you leave that space to cater it to them. And that's when you talk about proper bull etiquette, that's the thing that every, that's like the golden rule other than do no harm, which is the golden rule of the lifestyle covers everything.
If you just make sure you don't bring your baggage from the last thing but just be informed by the last thing so i do that i i cater to that person some people are like i don't want to use the n-word but i like race play you know yeah so there's different versions of it and and that's the other thing and they forgive me is one of the things we should maybe start out with is what is race play by the way what what are we talking about when we say race play you know like there's people who will go to splash mocha an event specifically catered for black males and couples who are usually not black to meet for an entire weekend and fuck all through a hotel, some of those people will say, I don't like race play.
And I'm like, oh, don't you see your foot is already in the pool? You're at a racial event. It's not like, oh, it just happens to be all these black men. It is catered to that. But they don't associate that with race play.
In their mind, using a racial epithet is race play okay but the next person has another thing in their head so race play in my opinion starts with if you're interested in some kind of interracial thing and then you have levels that go from there that's interesting because i never thought for personally i never thought of race play as something other than using that kind of language in the bedroom.
But I feel like that is, that is it, but there's also this like surrounding, you know, grayness of, you know, well, Venus, I'm exactly, I'm trying bring us all together. So whether you like it, or you don't like it, right? Trust me, I've talked to many black people who are not into race play. And I get why, right? I get why they don't want to go there.
But I will say that if we can all just look at each other as we're on a spectrum, if you like interracial at all, there's a version of it where you can take a step back and not be so judgy about people that like race play and say, well, actually, I kind of like the color contrast and I like, well, there's race involved there. So join those people. Don't have to go all the way into race play, but don't feel like they're so different than you.
Just be more open-minded, and then we can start to not have crickets when we have conversations because we're all in this together. We're way more alike. What is that thing where they use mice for testing because they're like 98% the same as human DNA? We're mostly the same in this lifestyle. And so we don't have to point fingers and go, oh my God, that person's weird or doing something. No, they're not doing it. Again, there's only one rule, do no harm.
Consensual ethical race play is adults agreeing to play a scene in a room that they're not out there in the world playing any more than you get spanked or wear the diaper that you have in a dungeon out in the real world. Right. It's for that place. Right. And I love that you say it that way. Okay, what's this juicy story that we need the details of?
Because if you say it elevated your race play to another level, that in my mind means it's like something out of the stratosphere all right well thanks for building it up so much so I have to live up to that um no uh it wasn't a stratosphere for me so I've been I've been interested recently um You know, I'm a reader and I've been looking into sex magic sometimes i've been i've been interested recently um you know i i'm a reader and i've been looking into sex magic um sometimes spelled old style m-a-g-i-c-k and for some people that's like what the fuck are you talking about is that some harry potter shit like what is sex magic and i would i would define this i'm not saying it's it's a magic or rabbit out of a hat.
It's the power that intention can create. So, and this resonates with me because I do have a religious background, whether something is real or not, I think a lot of times depends on us, on us. And so when you put intention into something, it creates a power that I have found to be undeniable. And when it comes around race, you said something at the top of this conversation, where you said, like, you were interested in black men, naturally Yes.
There is this undeniable magnetic attraction between, I would say for me, especially Black men and white women, especially in like North America. And I think it's true all over the world, but we have an interesting history, especially in America, racially, that has charged the situation between black men and white women. It is the reason why white men for centuries did everything in their power to separate us.
right under pain of death you know it wasn't that long ago where like my grandfather if you looked at a white woman the wrong way could die right that's the world that we lived in and you can't tell me that that isn't informing what we see today in terms of interracial sex interactions right there is a taboo and a charge around it so there's power there so i'm interested in this and harnessing that so i had a couple who's also interested in that subject and they wanted to i'll say like sit in ceremony with me and do some sex magic that was specifically interracial i need to know what this sex magic is so it's it is it's um it is hard to describe but the first session we did um i rented a space it's like a dungeon here in la it's really amazing it's all white um and uh I, in fact, you should, your listeners might want to see it.
It's, uh, it's called dungeon East in Los Angeles. You should Google it and you get a picture of the space that this happened in. So I have a, I have a British, uh, valet cuck who sets up the space for me. Okay. So he's, he's on another level. You've met this guy. He's just on another level as a single cuck. He gets it. So I'm able to have him there, um, to kind of be a butler, you know, um, a cuckler.
So, um, he set be a butler you know um a cuckler and so so um he set up a space where i had these like mats that we like kind of like yoga mats but they were in a triangle and then i had some items there that i've collected from around the world in my travels um that are you know everything from an incense burner to this like ceremonial um knife that's not like sharp that's used in like um to bet all these things that have uh an intention for like ceremony so at first um they came out and then it was her cuck myself uh and her and we're in a triangle and in the center of it um you know surrounded by candles and in the center of it we had the incense burning and i went through a ceremony with them and speaking of race play like she calls me black god that's what she calls me okay which is so fucking hot uh and so that um that started me thinking about what are our three roles and i believe that the cuck the um the cuckoldress and the bull are like a sacred triangle right they're three-sided and if you deepen it the best way I can describe it is you can turn a flat triangle into a pyramid now it has volume and space to fill in whatever we want and we started to fill that space in that ceremony so I went through with them who I see them as, like in this particular case to me she was um the wild woman in mythology you know um in in like for instance hinduism um there's the wild woman who like she's typically depicted like her foot on a man's head and she's screaming and you know she has fire in one hand you know and she's just the inner part of a woman that gets pushed down by patriarchy today.
Right. She's free. Right. And so on the cuck side, I felt like he was in mythology, there's this thing called Ouroboros. It's a snake that's eating its own tail. It's a circle. And to to me the cuck is such a valuable part of that triangle because he for instance in this case was caged and he's not allowed to come until she lets him and to me that sexual energy that a cuck builds up all of that seed that she's keeping until she releases it, he's a snake eating his own tail.
He has to re-input his own seed as opposed to letting it go like the bull gets to, right? Right. So there's a charge at that cuck, and it's part of why cucks have that charge, why they're so heightened all the time. Yeah.
So again,uroboros and by the way while this is happening they're both wearing collars that I've made for them his collar has like a ring on it for the leash and it's an Ouroboros circle of a snake eating a tail like I fucking went all out for this shit oh my god so it was amazing I'm not going to get into every single thing if you don't have the time right now but that was the ceremony we did that night and then i put her on a sibian oh for those who don't know it's basically uh yes it's the v the it's it's what makes those sounds that venus is it's making um you can look upibian, but it's basically a saddle that has a vibrating component, and you can also attach dildos to it.
So I walked her over to her throne, and I put her on it. And we started to begin our evening. And by that time I got her onto the sibian she was already there and then we started our night together um the three of us in terms of play but that was just that was just the one part um for one night the next night they had the idea that they wanted to have basically um you know when people get married and then they renew their vows type thing yeah Thank you.
Like, they had the idea that they wanted to have basically, you know, when people get married and then they renew their vows type thing. Yeah. She wanted to be married to the interracial lifestyle. And she wanted me to officiate that. So we did a ceremony that was amazing.
I mean, they brought robes, like these amazing robes like you know like um you see like with the with the hoods on them you know yeah but they were like really nice like you didn't get these at like you know target and um i wore like a white one to represent her she wore a black one to represent me and her cuck as well. And they wrote vows that I barely added anything to. They wrote these to each other, giving herself to this fully, to be black owned, to be part of this interracial lifestyle.
So I officiated that. And then we, again, we shared each other. So that is one of those things that heightened. It's something that I've been thinking about for a while. This is the first time I've ever done one of these. I'm going to get better as I go. But it was mind blowing for all three of us.
Like we're still weeks later just like what the fuck was that that is magic you know what i mean that's what i mean like it's whatever you make it it's whatever you believe and making it real in the world and i gotta say venus we fucking made it real i'm kind of speechless I don't even like what I am if you asked me a few years ago I would have said well you know I get it I get it um but there's no going back now like again you don't have to wear a robe and sit in ceremony, but you can have something where you initiate your marriage into another level as cuck and cuckoldress or stag and vixen or whatever your dynamic is.
You can, as a bull, say, I like this level of interracial interaction, but I don't want to go this far. That's fine. Build it with the people that are like you. Um, my, my head and sexuality is cracked fucking open right now because I took this to this next level, but I have to give all honor to this couple who allowed me to take it there with them.
Um, so, you know, I can't wait till I see what tomorrow brings but today i'm just like still in awe of what we created together wow yeah i'm in awe i'm like holy shit that's epic no no wonder you said that it it raised the level for you or went to next level for you for yeah wow for race play that that's that's amazing and i think maybe maybe that'll become a thing like an actual thing where people aspire to that like a lot of people aspire to that who knows because the interracial cackling thing is a big thing it is certainly not you know not every couple is into black bulls like we said or like you like you said earlier, they come in at all different races, races.
It's just, I talk a lot about it on this show because I happen to be into that aspect. So yeah, a little bit, but I think it's just fascinating that all the conversations that you and I have had about race play has been fascinating. Hearing about the ceremony has been fascinating. Your advice for bulls to, what did you say, to make sure that you don't use what you just experienced to have expectations for your next experience? Right. Yeah, that's, I think, really, really important.
um so for all of the wannabe bulls out there who are listening or bulls or um or whatever just make sure that that's something that you you learn from pagan very good advice treat each person as a unique experience yeah yeah be informed by your past experiences of course right yeah but don't use it as a cookie cutter template for the next person that guy that said the n-word that you ran out the gate he was doing that he was he was using a past experience on you and did not ask permission you know or do it properly luckily you guys were cool as fuck so it all worked out but he he shouldn't expect everybody to react that way.
No, no. So yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's I guess like the big thing for me is like, there's a full spectrum here.
And I think that couples, and especially for white couples in America, probably around the world, but especially in America, we're living in such a place where you can't even talk about these things and your kinks that you would like to explore and I would just say like I get that but also feel like you can have an honest conversation with your bull and find the ones that are catering towards what you want and I would also just say if you can be unapologetic about your sexuality, everything that is racial is not racist.
No matter what society is trying to say right now, this moment, I try to have the macro view of things right now. We're in a very heightened, I would say ever since 2020 with George Floyd and, you know, there were riots and there was protesting. We're in a very heightened area in terms of race and time. But if you pull back, who knows what 10 years from now, where we're going to be. I don't even think this is sustainable, this place where you can't even talk about things.
So I'm trying to have the macro view and wait this thing out. And I think that keeping in mind that everything is racial, not racist, you can talk about these things and you're not a racist. You can enjoy these things. And no matter how many people try to tell you, you're not a racist any more than you're violent because you like BDSM in the bedroom. That doesn't make any sense. We all know these are different spaces. So that nuance is what I would like to bring.
So if you're looking for this, just know there's bulls out there. And if you don't find one, hit up your boy, Peg. Do you realize what you just did? i do, Venus. I think I do, yeah. Oh my gosh. RIP your DMs. This is going to be crazy. Okay. There are so many more questions that I really want to ask you about. I feel like this is a conversation that needs to continue.
Is this a part one yeah absolutely and I feel like I need to have you on pillow talk so we can jump into this even more that'd be so great okay we have run out of time for our conversation today unfortunately but Where can people reach out to learn more about you and the Four Horsemen? Yes.
conversation today unfortunately but where can people reach out to learn more about you and the four horsemen um yeah so you can find me at um pagan and t the number four wm on twitter and also uh pagan black bull uh on twitter and um, I am like, I've recently started to use Instagram a little bit. So it's also pagan black bull, or I'm sorry, I underscore am underscore pagan on, uh, on Instagram. Okay. Um, so those are the three that you can probably reach me at. Wonderful.
Well, I'm still on Instagram too. We haven't been kicked off yet. So I don't know. okay um so those are the three that you can probably reach me at wonderful well i'm still on instagram too we haven't been kicked off yet so that's great um i will include those links in the show notes for today pagan thank you so much for joining me on the show today i absolutely love speaking with you it's always a pleasure ven, Venus. Anytime you want me, I'm here for you, baby. Oh, what a fun episode.
That's going to be it for today's show. Thanks so much for joining me. Make sure you check out the events page at venuscuckoldress.com. Keep an eye out for the live Pillow Talk event that's going to be coming up with Pagan and guests to talk about that very, very sexy ceremony that they had. So check it out, venuscuckoldress.com. It's the events page. You can also book a private chat with me on venuscuckoldress.com. You can subscribe to the show. You can even submit a question for the show.
There's lots you can check out on venuscuckoldress.com. Don't forget to leave me a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. If you love the show, I would be so appreciative of that. And of course, don't forget to follow me on Twitter. My handle is at CuckoldressV. That's going to be it for this time. We'll see you next time. have you heard of afterglow you guys this is is so amazing. You've probably heard me talk about cuck porn before and how much I'm not really a big fan. And why?
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They have hot wifing videos that one of them is that I watched it was narrated by a woman okay so hot it's it's from her perspective from her point of view oh my god so sexy lots of interaction between her and her husband lots of eye contact all that sort of stuff like it's hot guys if you want to get your wife or girlfriend into this kind of thing watch this together i'm telling you but it's not just videos they actually have guided masturbations they have partner exercises to improve communication and intimacy and they have candid interviews with sex educators influencers and therapists like there's so much more than just porn videos it's amazing definitely check it out with the code venus you can try it out for a week the website is xoafterglow.com and the code you need for your free week is venus that's xoafterglow.com check out the show notes if you can't remember, if you just want the link.
