2nd impeachment

JC555,

I am fine with school choice and private schools.

I went to an excellent private high school and a private college I loved.

My father worked two jobs and my mother worked to afford my private high school. Their hard work and sacrifice helped make a great life for me.

I also attended an excellent public K-8 school in a school district in upper-middle class town in NJ wheee parents move to in part just because of the quality of its public schools.

I deeply value education, and for me such education begins with parents reading to kids and bring their first teachers. Some parents are better prepared to do this than others or have more time to do it.

We sent our three kids in my first marriage to public schools but supplemented their education. I’m a teacher and their mom Us a teacher. Two of them went to a private college and one to a UC university. One of them took some courses in high school at LA Trade Tech, and I am a big fan of good public trade tech high schools. My three stepkids in my second marriage have all gone to public schools and one is now a public school K-5 teacher.

One of my kids is now a nurse. I consider work in health care and education to be two of the most beautiful professions.

My politics is shaped so much by a commitment to excellent affordable healthcare and quality public education for all.

I know some private schools in the South arose as an alternative to integrated public schools. This does not surprise me but it saddens me too.

For me, a good start for any child begins with good pre-natal care. I love head start schools.

We need to make quality public education at every level possible and affordable to all.

Betsy DeVos was a disgrace in my view as Secretary of Education under Trump. The best thing she did was resign recently. Biden looks as if he has made a good appointment for this Cabinet position.

Flip.

Wealthy people have the option of moving to a better school district to get quality education. Many families do not have this option and are stuck sending their kids schools where they live, however poor the education is or however poorly funded by taxes it is.

Wealth has its advantages. There are reasons why the rich get richer besides their own efforts and abilities.

Flip......just because one can't move doesn't mean they are not a good parent. You can be a good parent with a kid who is eager to learn yet is held back by a poor performing school. Here in my state we have the teacher tenure law. Principals used to also have that but that is gone now even though we have some who were grandfathered in. School performance drops and Principal pays the price of having a mostly tenured staff who they struggle with. That Principal is fired and another comes in with same problem and staff. Hard to fix that

No, I don't. Be a good parent and move to a better school district.

Sapp.....I also like school choice. Am I wrong to say Democrats don't support that? When I say school choice I am referring to school performance being underachieving. If there is no choice and your child attends a poor performing school don't you think you should be able to send them to a school where the performance is higher?

Sapp.....people choose private over public for many reasons. Myself and kids were public. Ones I know like smaller school size, they like the curriculum better, if the public school is poor performance wise, we have private schools with all different races in them. Just the reasons I know. Some also like the harder discipline that they say exist.

JC555,

I feel we are in common ground in everything you write in your last post, and it is helpful to have someone in your position and your state affirm some of my own assumptions.

We can debate the best way to help and uplift the poor and those at the bottom. I feel we can in this extremely wealthy country provide a baseline if support but also the programs that can provide uplift or make social mobility more than a dream and a promise.

For me, this includes deep investment in health care and education (including public-pre-school), paid for my reducing military spending and reversing Trump’s tax cuts for the rich.

Unions have been crucial improving the salaries and lives of workers, but any source of power can be a source of corruption, and I understand why some places feel going more non-Union will be a benefit to the economy of their state by bringing in more work and jobs, but I feel that argument is mostly made by those on the top of the economy

Frankly, I think we need to look at how racism and self-interest affects the willingness of people to support quality public education and affordable health care for all. Government gives so much economic support (or welfare in effect) to corporations and the rich.

If people pay for private education for their kids, why support more public investment in education through taxation.

Frankly, I don’t have much clue about how government could best improve the lives of the full range of people in a place such as Alabama. I do feel there must be people who know this better than Jeff Sessions and Mo Brooks and Tommy Tuberville, who win elections in my opinion by appealing too much to ugly passions and beliefs inside of people.

Do you think the 4 years of Trump’s presidency truly improved the quality of life for people in Alabama in any way besides the bank accounts of the 1-5%. Did he use his pier to make any tangible improvements for people in the bottom 40%?

Tbrmskss......you do care what I think because you replied rather lengthy. You read and trust what you want to. We all do. You find me to be ignorant on things as I do you. You have a problem with an opinion that doesn't match what you think.

"4 year college is not for everyone. We always need electricians, welders, plumbers, etc. A lot of these tech schools have programs to help kids get manufacturing jobs."

This is something we can agree on.

My wife is a third generation commercial painter. Her brother is a plumber. Her dad is a carpenter. My second daughter is a hair stylist.

I also have two kids with Master's, and another with a BA. I have never told my kids to go to college. I tell them they need to have a skill.

Sapp.....I support unions. My father retired from the UMWA. He was very loyal to the union but also it had things he didn't like. I think most have compassion for the poor. The argument here in the south is some think they are helping the poor with more and more assistance. That sounds good and yes the right thing to do. Others believe to yes help the poor but also to lift them out of poverty by having good jobs that pay well and provide good benefits such as health insurance. The thinking here is lower taxes on big businesses will bring them in. When business comes in then jobs are created. More people working with good jobs means less poverty. Schools here I have started more and more career tech programs. 4 year college is not for everyone. We always need electricians, welders, plumbers, etc. A lot of these tech schools have programs to help kids get manufacturing jobs. That helps get companies to come in because a big reason they didn't want to locate here was because the work force was not ready.

" You have an opinion that right wingers are all stupid and racist."

LOL.

I am of the opinion that most right wingers have been fed disinformation for the last 40 years, and that their perception of reality is skewed as a result.

You can look yourself at the studies that have been done about knowledge of current events by people who watch different "news" sources.

In every study, people whos main source of news is right wing know less about current events than people who watch left wing sources.

My opinions are based on empirical data. That's what I do.

If I say that there was no significant voter fraud, you can bet that I have researched the issue.

I'm not always right, but I am right much more often than I am wrong. because I know stuff. And I know how to find stuff out. That's what I do.

In addition to my Ph.D. in Education, I have a Master's in Social Welfare. So I have training in clinical work, and a keen understanding of what makes people tick.

One thing that I can't abide is people being proudly ignorant. When you first came on here, you were proudly ignorant. You have since changed your tune somewhat.

So do I think that all right wingers are stupid and racist? No, I think they are misinformed, and many of them don't want to be informed.

I'll tell you the same thing I have said many times here. The most important thing you will learn as you become educated is how much you don't know.

As far as being racist, we all have prejudices. My opinion of right wingers on this subject goes back to their lack of interest in exploring the roots of their prejudices.

In summary, you think what you want. I personally don't care.

JC555,

Yes, I’m sure: GOP and Conservatuve voters in the South belief the Democratic Party has gone “too far to the left.”

But what does that mean?

For me, “too far to the left” is code for being opposed to desegregation and civil rights and opposing support for labor unions and opposing trying to care for and help the poor and sick in this country in fair and compassionate ways.

I believe in hard work. I also believe in Social Security and Medicare and “food stamps” or no one going hungry in this wealthiest nation in the world.

I don’t believe in more tax cuts for the rich and less regulation of Wall Street, which is the key agenda of the GOP whatever else it dog whistles and barks.

I’m for policies that improve social mobility. The USA should be a leader in the world of social mobility. I like supporting policies that keep alive the American Dream for all people.

I like the USA offering the word the best example of a multiracial democracy or a democracy that respects diversity as it promotes the common good for all of us and not just some of us with already inherited privileges

2muchfun......agreed. All should be held accountable from both sides

8inch.....haven't got a clue what you mean. Who the hell said a Nazi at a death camp was misunderstood?

Correction:

I should have written that the main goal (rather than consequence) of President Trump’s demagogic bullying and rhetoric of dehumanizing and demonizing people was to win votes and elections that enabled him to lower taxes on the rich and make more money for himself and family.

President Trump and the GOP is not truly out to serve the blue collar working class and their economic interests. It’s to serve the rich and the corporations that donate to their campaigns

Yes, the GOP will also do more to fight against gun control and end abortion.

But what has been the primary agenda of the GOP and he Conservative movement since 1964?

Trump has exposed that not in dog whistles but in rabid barking.

Tbrmskss.....your only goal is to stir shit up. You have an opinion that right wingers are all stupid and racist. You listen to nothing. I would also say you don't do much either about what you believe. You try to sound so educated and woke yet you don't know anything about anybody outside your bubble. You are part of the problem.

I have voted for both parties in different elections. I, as most, vote for who I think is best for me at the time. I believe most voters in the South feel the Democrats have gone to far left. I feel also most middle class people feel they were forgotten by the Democrats. It is just my opinion based on myself and people I talk with. My opinion is also people believe to much of what they see on social media. Social media has a way of figuring out what you like and want to see and what you react to. So they keep feeding it to you nonstop. People stuck at home now get bored and fill themselves full of it on both sides. I wish our political leaders would take a bipartisan look into this and react.

"People wearing a Auschwitz shirt and waiving a Confederate flag would fall under ignorant and very inconsiderate of people who were subject to a bad past."

I guess the guards at Auschwitz and other concentration camps were ignorant, inconsiderate and misunderstood?

JC555,

Given the horrific and tragic and ugly consequences of anti-Semitism and white supremacy and anti-Black racism in the USA and world, it is so much more than “ignorant” or “inconsiderate” to support
this stuff

It’s highly dangerous and terribly mean and ugly and disgraceful, and we need political leaders who call this stuff out and protect us against it rather than encouraging it or accepting it or winking at it or stirring it up to win elections or overturn an election.

What are the right or fair or just words to name this stuff and call it out.

President Trump took a lead in showing us the wrong way to do it during his presidency.

He exemplified the demagogic bullying of sons of the worst leaders in world history

You don’t dehumanize and demonize people as he has done for political victories or to win a presidency whose main consequence is to lower taxes on the rich.

They incited a riot whether they meant to or not.

What politicians say in public they need to be held accountable for.

And we come back to schemas.

JC's schema is to give right wingers the benefit of the doubt at every opportunity.

My schema is to attribute nefarious motives to the same group of people.

Sapp....I honestly don't know what Mo Brooks meant. Sometimes people get caught up in the moment and say stupid shit. Been there and done that myself. If he really meant that why didn't he start beating up on his colleagues and kicking ass. Some people just want attention. He got it. He will have to answer to his colleagues and voters for that. He doesn't look like the type to actually kick ass in a physical way

JC555,

I agree with you again: “Defund the Police” is a slogan as is MAGA and “Stop the Steal.”

What did Mo Brooks mean or symbolize or encourage by “kick ass” is also open to question and debate.

Mo Brooks was stirring up anger and rage in my view.

Why did Brooks go demagogic? Why has Trump engaged in demagoguery?

What are they trying to defend?

“Defund the Police” is a bad slogan in my view. It’s simplistic. It’s a rally cry. Generously, it’s asking people to consider how best to address social problems in our cities or how best to use our tax money to address social problems and crime and if there are other ways to do this than spending more money or as much money on police.

I prefer slogans and rallying cries that call upon us to address and overcome injustice rather than rallying cries and slogans that call upon us to commit injustice.

People wearing a Auschwitz shirt and waiving a Confederate flag would fall under ignorant and very inconsiderate of people who were subject to a bad past. Trump has been told his rhetoric and demeanor at rallies is a problem. Do I personally think he meant violence? No. Apparently others did. His stubbornness backfired and cost him big and cost the country big.

Ps JC555,

I like you beginning to offer some analysis and judgment about why people invaded or stormed Congress and engaged in criminal actions.

You say some believed there was fraud, some were ignorant, and some were bad people.

I agree. But can we go deeper?

Why was one person who invaded the Capitol waving a Confederate flag? Why did someone wear a Camp Auschwitz t-shirt? What is the bad in some of the bad people?

If some were bamboozled, who bamboozled them? If sine were ignorant, what were they ignorant about?

I want to understand the passions and beliefs of the people who invaded the Capitol and attended the protest.

But let’s focus in particular on people who called for and led the protest or spoke at it and what they said and called for: Mo Brooks, Ted Cruz, Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump Jr.,President Trump.

Let’s judge or critique the big enchiladas as well as the participants in the mob riot

Sapp.....Mo Brooks used a bad choice of words. Some say kick ass and have a different meaning behind it. Mo Brooks needs to answer that question on what he really meant. If you say Defund the Police some believe you just mean police reform and then others think you mean get rid of the police. Both at times are a bad choice of words because they have different meanings to each person