It’s takes a different look at things they bring up twice in history Russia has tried to become close to the US only to be run off. The story about WW II is real interesting . Russians were begging for help and the west just turned away. Been a long time since I watched it but it was really good . They talk of anything ending in ism is bad . …..
FUNFOR2
I have not seen that movie.
As for those who take a "Fortress America" approach....
One reason we enjoy the standard of living we enjoy is because we protect our interests - direct and indirect - all over the world. If we completely isolated ourselves we risk achieving the same goals we achieved the last few times we did it, which is the situation deteriorating to the point where we are compelled to enter in a much more involved way.
I don't like that we have to be the world's policeman either. But if we relinquish the role, there are several other countries eager to take it, and I can't believe any reasonable person thinks that Russia or China taking the job will somehow be better for us in the long run.
A rising tide lifts all the boats, and vice versa. Anyone who thinks we are not severely impacted by the mess Russia has created, and much more severely if it spirals into an all-out European war, is naive.
The problem with being a pacifist is that you are a slave to the first guy who comes along with a gun who isn't one.
Along the lines of what current posted, there was a piece in the Atlantic called "Russia's Vindictive Rage" (link below). In short, Russia doesn't even seem to have any clear goals anymore and what is happening now is essentially just them raining ruin on their neighbor as punishment for their refusal to submit to their will. If their goal is to knock over Kiev, that would have already happened if it were going to. If it is to maintain their territorial gains, that is looking increasingly unlikely to happen long-term, save possibly Crimea.
So what is Russia even doing anymore?
w ww.theatlantic.co m/newsletters/archive/2022/11/russias-vindictive-rage/672212/
It’s always the same story , my older brother was in Vietnam . He became somewhat friends with some of the people and an old man used to tell him . “ GI , why don’t you go home , we’re not going anywhere “. ..Nobody and I mean this nobody ever puts a value to the PTSD and mental problems of our wars . I always ask a simple question …Who’s gonna care for the ones who care for the ones who went to war . These family members , wives pay so much to care for a person who went to war ……..Every day 20 veterans commit suicide yea every day …..suicide , not an accident . ….This is the invisible war.
NOBODY wants war. In every nation, good people are trying to live a decent life, and nobody wants their homes destroyed and neighbors and family killed. About 8 Billion people in the world want nothing to do with the evil and insanity of war, or much of the ruling class agenda.
The only "people" who want war are evil criminal psychopaths (that barely qualify as "people") who stand to make some personal advantage out of killing people, controlling people, and syphoning off everyone's money. The elite bankers, the insane politicians, and the class of criminally insane folks who visit Epstein island and think the common people are a waste of food and oxygen. There's probably only about 10000 of these lunatics who have clawed their way to the top.
It's well past the time that the 8 Billion of us finally say NO, HELL NO, and all of you warmongers and evildoers can just piss off.
Our world really could be a lot more abundant and beautiful for us all when we finally scape off the very thin top layer of rotting scum that's spoiling this dish.
We have a choice here - kill people or not kill people.
Peace, productivity, harmony and a good life isn't the result of killing the innocent.
@DB , I know some will lose their minds but have you seen the movie The Story Of America . I believe Roger Stone ?
the cost of war since 2011 is 8 trillion plus legacy costs
Meanwhile Russian behavior gets more bizzare.
The current impotent stategy seems to be "let's make Ukraine and their allies miserable this winter." One thing Russia's typically brutish lumbering military clown brigades can manage to successfully strike is large stationary targets like thermal plants, dams, and electrical switching facilities. Also undersea pipelines. The latter is particularly bizzarre given that, presumably, one day, they hope to sell gas to europe again and restore the economic and strategic benefit they enjoyed before Putin's stupid miscalculation in Ukraine.
Another interesting thing is how right wing pundits in Russia are making even right wing pundits in the US seem not so crazy. In recent weeks, hosts on State media programs in Russia have openly suggested, among other things, a nuclear strike on Kyiev, shooting Ukrainian captives, and a convential strike on the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear plant which would cause a nuclear disaster and for which Russian culpability could be denied. These last two ideas pass the "ignoranus" test in that not only do they make the pundits look like the assholes they are, but are monumentally stupid as well. Consider how damaging the alleged incident of murder of Russian prisoners by Ukraine was to Ukraine's reputation. They think Russia should make that formal policy rather than merely a dirty secret? Then there's the Nuke plant strike idea. Does it matter if the (suggested intentional) stike could be denied, given that most of Russia is downwind of Zaporizhzhia, and Crimea, which they still have aspirations of holding (some would say stealing) is down watershed from the plant?
As some point doesn't talking crazy wear down people's views of what crazy is?
ANDREW
Russia and The United States have been fighting proxy wars against each other since Korea.
I just want everyone to remember this the next time we have a war, or something, in another country. You know it will happen eventually for some damn reason. When Russia sends money and weapons to whoever we're fighting, and brags about it like we do, remember these days.
@Some - So kind of like EA but in a lot less words ;-) , we both agree on Ukraine aid, but the amount and how it's tracked are the sticky points.
Hmmm, the article does say "This $2.313 trillion spent on Afghanistan is a portion of the total estimated cost of the post-9/11 wars.", which leads me to believe that this is just for Afghanistan, but does include Pakistan. Did I read that wrong?
FWIW - I was speaking to the "...more than we spent on 20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq“ statement, so all of the costs mentioned in the article I linked to would seem to apply since they are all costs incurred in that 20 years, making this quoted statement wrong by a considerable amount.
Regardless of the amount, at what point do the people saying we shouldn't be involved think that we should get involved? Is it because it was the Ukraine, or do people think that we should never get involved in any foreign war? What if it was say, Finland? Would that somehow be different?
Is this kind of a "We have our freedoms now, so the rest of the world can go fuck itself" kind of thing?
"Since invading Afghanistan in 2001, the United States has spent $2.313 trillion on the war, which includes operations in both Afghanistan and Pakistan"
watson.brown. edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/human-and-budgetary-costs-date-us-war-afghanistan-2001-2022
Posters should probably be careful about the trajectory of this thread.
It is veering closer to politics, and runs the risk of being moved to the politics thread...
“more than we spent on 20 years in Afghanistan and Iraq“
Your numbers are wrong
With promises and money spent in the last year to Ukraine . It is greater then the entire Russian military spend for the year. That is talking for them all over the world. Who says war is good business knows what he is talking about.
@5
Part 2
You and I agree that we have made a lot of progress. Where you and I may differ is in how far we feel we have progressed and how much more we have to do to progress. Again, as I have stated, we are not that different. We are just arguing about the means to achieve the same goal: Make our country the best it can be.
Straight tax? Do you mean a flat tax? Flat taxes are punitive to the poor. To me, it is like golf. Small ball, small club, small hole, BIG area. Something is off there :) A flat tax sounds good as it is easy because it is the same, but the income is not the same. As I have said to my kid over and over. If you want to make money, learn taxes. Our country uses the tax system to punish behavior they do not want and to reward behavior that they want. These loopholes are not all good. Some of them are just bullshit. However, some are good. Want to get our country free of OPEC? You could raise taxes on gas. That will not work because that impacts everyone today. EVERYTHING will go up. So you reward the behavior you want instead of punishing it. Biden's IRA bill brings back tax credits for EVs. There are two parts to it and this is interesting as people who scream MAGA and bring back jobs are completely ignoring what the requirements are for those credits. There are two parts and each is worth 3,750. One is the minerals, starting in 2023, 40% of the minerals used in the battery need to be made/assembled in US or NAFTA. It goes up 10% per year on the requirement. Then the other half is value-based. Half the value of the battery has to be manufactured/assembled in the US or NAFTA. That is bringing jobs BACK. Think about this, the Chevy BOLT EV is about 30k. Getting 7500 back is a HUGE discount. Again, rewarding behavior :)
I am not a fan of trickle-down economics. I got to spend some time with Wayne Huizenga. This was back in the early 90s and he was worth almost a billion. I stated, "Wayne, you are worth an amount that if you spent $1m a month, with no income, until you died that you would still be on the Forbes 400. Why do you do what you do?" He stated that money was not the goal. That the money was a scorecard. He stated that he used that scorecard as a means to compete with his peers. He stated that he was not going to spend it, just keep growing the scorecard. That taught me all I needed to know about trickle-down economics. His money was not flowing, it was relatively static.
Our country has seen the results of the consolidation of wealth. It got so bad that we had to enact laws to break it up. Not everyone is an Andrew Carnegie or Chuck Feeney (mega respect for him.)
@5
Incoming long responses to cool questions :)I have studied a bunch about the American Revolution. If I go back in my family tree, I am a son of the American revolution by a few people :) One was high up and reported directly to George Washington. I am related to a President and Benedict Arnold. On my mother's mother's side, they were on one of the first 10 boats that came over from England. I agree with you that I think our country today has a lack of understanding of how our country was founded, why it was founded, and the history of our country. Without that knowledge, it is easier to not have empathy. I just wish we had fewer people trying to dictate knowledge to the point it is watered down and single-sided, generally biased by a religion.
I think that Charlie Munger nailed the whole crypto situation brilliantly when he stated, "We do not need a currency for kidnapping." I think that crypto is bs. I like that China outright banned it. I think people are not aware of the impact that crypto has had on their lives even if they know nothing about it nor have any money invested in it. I do not think that people are aware of how much power mining the coins requires. Their electric rates went up just to support crypto!
I do not know enough about what SBF did as of yet to make a solid opinion, but I have some guesses. I think that he did what has been done so many times in the past that the US had to put in regulations to stop it and then the old CITICORP issue blew Glass-Steagall apart. I think, again, I do not know, but it looks like the idiot was taking customer's assets, investing it leveraged and losing on trades. I think he wound up chasing losses and it was caught.
I think the Feds will have issues regulating it. I think they will run into the issue of who oversees a decentralized 'money.' Personally, I'd love for them to just state that it is banned in the US, but I doubt they will be able to do that legally or politically.
One of my largest customers in the past was Phillip Morris. Hands down the people I dealt with were some of the smartest people I have ever met in my life. They were incredible businessmen. They taught me something that I had never thought of. They were one of the leads in getting an MSA with the feds. They approached the feds with the concept of the MSA. I asked them why. They stated, "Regulations set the rules that we all have to adhere to. We know we are better business people than our competitors and we can beat them if we all play under the same rules. We can't beat them if they cheat or we have no certainty." If we are stuck with crypto as a financial asset, then yes, I think it should be regulated. I'd have no problem with it being at CME and let them handle it. They would have to figure out how to deal with blockchain, but these regulated industries are a lot better at protecting assets than rogue dipshits in the Bahamas.
@EA..
How do you feel about suspected crypto fallout with FTX & Ukraine?
Donations to either right or left campaigns? I’m pretty hooked in the finial world and I have heard from very informed that this guy had Ponsi written all over him from the outset.
What do you think that is going to do for public/private crypto participation going forward? How long do you think the feds will let it continue without regulating it? Do you believe that regulation is warranted?
How do you feel about environmental reparations to “emerging” countries including China?
I’m not leading you, I’m just curious.. you are correct, very few understand or in this day and time even know about the French connection to our Liberty (You know they hated England)
I think if more really knew the path we stumbled through as a nation that it would be a much better and thankful society.
I do believe as Americans we have made a lot of progress and I think all people should be represented in the government by at least the percentage of the governed.
Anyone who doesn’t believe that there is cheating going on in the government is simply brain dead. There is enough evidence (which you yourself said that it it’s necessary) to be very unsatisfied with how we are being governed.
One last thing.. I have not seen anything from you on flat tax across the board for everyone who participates in natural commerce goods & services.. why is it harder to collect taxes equally across the board the way we are doing it rather than for instance how the State Boards do it with businesses and corporations. No loop holes just straight tax? For everyone..
@5
I think you and I would argue over the level of oversite.
I do not think that the US is handing money to Zelensky. IIRC the funds are going through the World Bank. I do not think we are handing the money directly to the World Bank and saying hand it to Zelensky, let him go to Vegas and bet it all on 32 black. IIRC the World Bank and third parties are already monitoring the cash going in and providing oversite.
The reason why I think you and I would argue is that I believe the argument would go along with the same logic of welfare and how the funds are used. I have seen a lot of people complain that the person who is on welfare got a cell phone and that is not what welfare should be. Yet, when I (generic I) say, "The person on welfare has 3 kids, needs to be on call for work as well as on call for their kids and this is their only means to make that happen," the response is, "Well, the welfare queen didn't need to get a iPhone, she should have gotten a 4 year old Samsung refurb." That level of micro management is where I believe we may differ.
There was a very interesting interview with Hillary Clinton and Condi Rice talking about Ukraine and funding. They both felt that it was stupid for the incoming congress to state that they will not assist. They pointed out IIRC that the country's TOTAL contributions of aid to ALL countries is less than 1.5% of their budget. It is actually tiny.
So yes, of course, there should be no blank checks. But leaving the oversite in charge of the Jim Jordan's of the world, no thanks.
@EA
#Truth.
Would you agree that we need to have oversite of the billions we are contributing? Are you good with not having a trail? Are you good with the corruptness of the Ukrainian Government ad hominem?
Just curious..
I am just chuckling for those that are against funding wars of other countries. I am quite sure that these are the same people that scream how wonderful our country is and how the constitution is the gospel. Without the French funding us and helping us fight, we would have never beaten the British. The US is eternally indebted to the French not only for our independence as well as the basis for our form of government.
All those foreign wars never had to happen. The Bankers AKA Rothschilds started all of them for money. Bankrupted both sides then Lent them money at ridiculous interest so they would never be able to pay it back. That is why so many Countries are in Alliance with Trump to take down the Cabal Deep State.
Mickey
Sure. But what kind of world would we in the US live in without our interventions in what were technically foreign wars? Isolationism isn't just nihilistic, it's also ahistorical, but I'm still curious about what someone who espouses it thinks the outcome for us here would be.
