Decoding Attraction: Confidence, Boundaries, and Opportunities

Transcript

Speaker1: You're listening to a podcast right now. Driving, working out, walking the dog. If you're into podcasts, chances are you have something to say too. With RSS.com, starting your own podcast is free and easy. Upload an episode and we distribute it to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and more. Track your listeners, see where they're from, and start earning from ads just like this. If you've been thinking about starting a podcast, this is your sign. Start your new podcast for free today at RSS.com. This week on Hot Couple Chronicles. Let's talk about some things that a lot of guys don't necessarily talk about or want to talk about. A little bit uncomfortable because we're, you know, men and we don't have feelings. As men, we will take opportunity over attraction almost every time. Every time. One time early on, we had gone to a party and there was a woman, this beautiful woman, and I asked her if I could kiss her because I'm always about consent. You know, may I kiss you? Yes. And she said, no. And that bruised me hard early on. And I was like, okay, you know, I'll move on. That's fine. And I kind of, you know, went off into the corner and I was, no, she won't kiss me. Okay, fine. And I got in my head about it. Well, come to find out later on, it was a different, it was a different situation. She couldn't kiss me because she was in a dom-sub environment and she asked, needs to ask approval for that. And I didn't know. So good for her. going everywhere else, but our cocks. Yeah. Is what it boils down to. Welcome to Hot Couple Chronicles, a podcast exploring the singing lifestyle. Our discussions may contain explicit content and adult themes intended for mature audiences. While we strive to offer valuable insights and entertainment, please be aware that the views expressed are based on personal experiences and opinions. We encourage listeners to approach the content with an open mind and to prioritize communication, consent, and respect in their relationships. Remember, Everyone's journey is unique. So take what resonates with you and leave what doesn't. Thank you for joining us on our adventure. I'm Russ and as you can see this isn't Ashley I'm here today with Rob who's with anything but vanilla we co-host events at trapeze every third Friday of the month called fresh Fridays hopefully a few of you've come out to see us if not come check us out and without further ado I do. Rob, I'm glad you're here. Very glad you're here. Well, I guess I'm glad I'm here. We drove up to their house this afternoon to have a chat with them. They're like, we don't talk enough anyway, so I'm on camera this time. So before we go into more what we're going to talk about, let's hear more about what you guys do for people that don't know. Sure. So, Linz and I started Anything But Vanilla not too long after we got into the lifestyle. We said, oh, we should have, you know, an NLS name is everybody has which then quickly transformed into an educational and advocacy type platform for us as we went through our progression over the last couple of years and we had started a podcast a couple of years ago and let that kind of go for a little bit while we were working on events and traveling around and doing some other stuff so our podcast is back out now we just did our first episode and there'll be some more coming up nice and easy enough It's Anything But Vanilla. It is. Say, Ashley and I listened to it on the way up here this morning. That'll be the second listener. Thank you. I appreciate that. You're welcome. Right now, I'm going to work with you on getting it on all the platforms. But right now, it's on YouTube and Spotify. Yes. Right? Yep. So just search Anything But Vanilla. You have a website as well, right? Yep. AnythingButVanilla.life. Right. That being said, now you know a little bit about what you guys do. Let's talk about some things that a lot of guys don't necessarily talk about or want to talk about. I'm a little bit uncomfortable because we're, you know, men and we don't have feelings. Yeah, we could stare at each other and not talk in about three minutes. Yes. Yes. Looking to add some excitement to your social life? Meet 3Fun, the free app that connects open-minded singles and couples for fun adventures. With thousands of active users, 3Fun is our ticket to new friendships, flirty encounters, and unforgettable experiences. 3Fun app now from the App Store or Google Play Store and start connecting with like-minded individuals in your area. Don't miss out on the excitement. Find the link below and get started with 3Fun today. So let's start with attraction versus opportunity in the lifestyle. That's a good one. Yeah. So as we both know, a lot of If you guys know, there are some amazingly gorgeous people in this lifestyle. Sometimes we don't have the confidence to talk to them. Sometimes, I mean, I think really that's the biggest one is we don't have the confidence. Like, there's no way they'd be interested. Why would anybody talk to me? Right, right. We, as... I ride Lindsay's coattails all the time. Oh, same with Ashley. Yeah, she's my open door. She's the best wing person I've ever had. Yeah. She's better than any other wing man I've ever had. But then there's also the side of it of, since, you know, this person would never even be interested in me, I have an opportunity over here. I'm not necessarily attracted to this person, but they're a nice person. And, you know, what's your take on that? So, yeah, at first it was pretty difficult. I didn't want to stand up and talk to somebody who I felt was way out of my league. And eventually what I learned was that everybody's putting their pants on the same way and taking them off the same way. They want to, they're there for a reason. And a lot of them want to meet somebody that they want to connect with. And a lot of women I found, and I know I'm generalizing, so if this is new, that's fine. I found out that they are definitely more of a connection person, less of a looks person. Obviously, they want things like hygiene and some other stuff, but they'd like to see confidence and they'd like to see personality. And it took me a while to learn that. So yeah, you have some gorgeous folks that you have an opportunity to connect with, but you don't because you're You're quietly sitting in the corner and you're nervous about it. Like a high schooler sitting on the wall, right? Yeah. So it brings about like it brings back those emotions from when you were in junior high and high school. Yeah. Like it brings those nerves back that we haven't had to deal with in decades. But they still live there because you didn't learn anything different. Right. Right. So I had a good friend of mine, Jim Vance, who pointed out who he's a life coach, a men's coach. And he does a lot of work with a lot of people. But he pointed out that our emotional intelligence at age six, unless we do the work ourselves, it's life experiences that bring our EQ up. Okay. But we've all seen it where men have their temper tantrums. Like we've both seen it. I've done it. Yeah. And that's just at that moment, we didn't have the emotional intelligence to deal with that situation. through that, we process it and we learn from it. But yeah, he said it was like six or eight. I forget the exact age, but it was really young. Pretty damn young. It was really young. Free boner. Yeah, for sure. And when he told me that, it really made me think about a lot of situations that how I've dealt with things, how I've seen other people deal with things, good and bad. And I think that's a big one is we fear rejection so much that it's, Such a hit on our ego that nine times out of ten, and again, generalizing, as men, we will take opportunity over attraction almost every time. Every time. Absolutely. And sometimes that throws our couple balance off. Yes. Because I'm looking at it from an opportunity perspective, and their opportunity there actually becomes an attraction for me because now I've opened up, I've let down my guard, and I can talk to the person that I'm attracted to for the opportunity, but it's not necessarily, and I don't want this, sound wrong, but it wouldn't have been somebody else that I might have gone across the room for because I was too afraid to. Right. So they're not necessarily the socially acceptable, really hot person, right? But as we talk to them and get to know them as human beings, they get so much hotter. They get very hot. Oh my gosh. And at the end of the day, they really are just fantastic. I never even thought this could have been possible hot. One time early on, we had gone to a party and there was a woman, this beautiful woman, and I asked her if I could kiss her because I'm always about consent. May I kiss you? And she said no. And that bruised me hard early on. And I was like, okay, you know, I'll move on. That's fine. And I kind of, you know, went off into the corner and I was, no, she won't kiss me. Okay, fine. And I got in my head about it. Well, come to find out later on, it was a different, it was a different situation. She couldn't kiss me because she was in a dom-sub environment and she needs to ask approval for that and I didn't know So good for her, that's fine I didn't understand that dynamic and so it bruised me from a male ego perspective and a confidence perspective at that point and now I understand it going forward Right, but also that has a couple points to it One, good for her for holding her boundaries with her partner and not worrying about your feelings because that's their boundaries and what you feel like. That was great. It isn't her problem, right? In hindsight, now I know. I know that's one thing. We always say you can't be afraid to hurt someone else's feelings, especially something as simple as a kiss. Once you cross a boundary that brings, like with your partner, that's trust, that's, you know, dishonesty, that, I mean, it's a big deal. So good for her. And then, but then you, It's not all in your feelings because you felt rejected and didn't know the situation And it was early on for me too, so I'm already trying to build confidence and then I hit this hurdle Yeah, so I've had something similar It wasn't necessarily that but it was, I asked to kiss a woman and she told me no but it was because that was they were a no-kissing couple If she tells you that, that's great I didn't feel bruised because that's how she kind of worded it She's like, oh, we don't kiss That's how she worded it. Like, okay. Like, cool. And we kept dancing and having a good time. Right. Yeah. So as long as, say, bring up boundaries one, it's not your responsibility to know her boundaries. Right. Right? Yeah. It's like you... You're listening to a podcast right now. Driving, working out, walking the dog. If you're into podcasts, chances are you have something to say too. With rss.com, starting your own podcast is free and easy. Upload an episode and we distribute it to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and more. Track your listeners, see where they're from, and start earning from ads just like this. If you've been thinking about starting a podcast, this is your sign. Start your new podcast for free today at rss.com. You're listening to a podcast right now. Driving, working out, walking the dog. If you're into podcasts, chances are you have something to say too. With rss.com, starting your own is free and easy. Upload an episode and we distribute it to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and hundreds more. Track your listeners, see where they're from, and start earning from ads like this, even with just 10 listeners a month. If you've been thinking about starting a podcast, this is your sign. Start free at rss.com. That's why we ask for consent, because we don't know the other person's boundaries. Correct. So there's that. for her. Good for you for asking for scent. Good for her for holding the boundary. And then it brought up this whole different dialogue between everybody, right? Right. Yeah. And it took a while for me to understand what was going on. So I'm kind of like, oh, wow, that sucked. Like, go to the next party. I'm like, I'm not asking anybody anymore. It's like, I'm just gonna go hide in the corner and Lindsay can have fun. So I leave, like, I've created kind of situations that could cause those emotions to people in group situations, because So, for example, last time we did any group play, and all the guys, you know, taking our clothes off, this and that, and everybody's starting to migrate to the bed, and we're starting to kiss, and I'm like, whoa, everybody, and everybody's like, what? You know, everybody first of all, you're like, things are wrong. I'm like, no, I'm like, this is cool. I just need to know if anybody has boundaries that I don't want to cross. What are everybody's limits? What are everybody's boundaries so I don't want to cross? of unintentionally cross one and make it cause any drama and everybody was kind of taken off by it at first and then it everybody started kind of talking about it like well like we're it was a group that were all pretty comfortable each other anyways but it was no butt stuff cool that's a boundary yep that is a boundary like cool and then that was really like we talked about protection stuff like that and but by me doing that i opened the door for, say, a woman to be like, yeah, so I only want to play with this person, this person, and this person. Everybody not included because there was 12 people in that room. There's a lot of people who kind of got their feelings hurt because of that. Right. But again, it's their responsibility to deal with those feelings, not the person that has the boundary. Right. And they shouldn't feel bad about that either. They shouldn't feel bad about it. Absolutely. And that's somebody that's kind of owned what we were talking about just before was the attraction versus opportunity. That's somebody that puts attraction over opportunity. And they may have other reasons too. And they might have other reasons. There might be something, they might have had a bad experience with somebody in the room. Or they want to make sure they have the three people that they've been wanting to be with. Yes. And they know they're going to tap out at some point. We have really close friends that do group play in private settings only with people they already know. Right. Like, everybody talks, and they'll say, like, we don't do orgies. We don't do orgies. We don't do that. No, they do. They just don't do them, say, in public. Because he's worried that something's going to happen to her so much that, and he doesn't want to get arrested. Basically, that's it. He's like, if somebody does something wrong to my wife, I don't want to. He might get violent. It might get violent. Yeah. And he's like, that's why we only put people who are comfortable with this and that. I'm like, I get it, man. That's why. When we're in, say, a party setting and they're there and they say, we know we're going to an orgy that in a public room, they're not going to be there. Just know it. They just know it. They move on. Yeah. Yeah. They might go to bed. They might keep partying. They might do whatever. We'll probably connect later, but we know they're not going to be there. Right. And, uh, but yeah, that's one of their things is they don't do any public play because they're worried. He's worried about. He's worried about in case somebody they weren't really familiar with does something that he wasn't. Like, we've been in situations where a single guy just kind of walks up and starts, you know, touching on somebody's wife. Somebody's got to police that. And then he might not like it. We police it pretty well. As soon as somebody sees it, like, whoa, like, did somebody say you could touch? You know, we'll stop it immediately. But he's a very emotional guy, put it that way. Fair enough. And that's his prized person. And he's afraid that if something like that happens, that he won't. He's protective of. Yes, yes. I understand him. Yes. So let's use that as a segue. So talk about guys in group situations, anxiety and performance, you know. Yes. What does that look like for you? For me, if I get distracted or anxious, I have trouble. I get performance anxiety. Like I can't get or stay hard, period. Yep. I have to, you know, either remove myself, Calm down, ground myself, and I can return. Sometimes it takes a little bit of help from medications. Tried numerous, and they all work for me. I've had prescriptions for just about every, just for performance anxiety. I call them my swinger insurance. That's fair. Yeah, because part of my ego is, one, you don't want to be that guy. No one wants to be that guy. Nobody wants to be that guy. Two, so I've had a situation where that, I think there was three or four couples in a room, and there was a really big crowd watching. It got in my head. The first time you look at that crowd, everything changes. Everything was great. It got in my head, and I lost everything. And what didn't really hurt my ego, because I knew what was going on. I've already processed that. I'm like, I'm good. What bothered me the most is how it made the woman I was with feel. Because she thought, she automatically assumed, it was because of her. I'm like, no, that's not. And I tried to reassure her. I'm like, that's not the case. I'm just in my head. That's not. She's like, happens to me all the time. It's okay. I'm like, no, it's like, stop that. No. But yeah, she just automatically assumed it was because of her. I wasn't attracted to her, which wasn't the case. It's just, but I think a lot of women have been in that situation as well. And I was like, I have no. They can hide it differently. And I don't mean hide it, but they want to enjoy the situation they can enjoy the situation but they may not be as turned on as they were when they started um and but we won't they know when we're not when we're it's not that we're not turned on it's we can't perform you know yeah we're in our head about blood's going everywhere else but our cocks yeah is what it boils down to so again one of the last orgies ashley and i were in she called me out she brought me back which is kudos to her for recognizing it because i was with Ashley, when it started. And we were having a, I was having a great time, but then there is so much going around on. I'm like this, your head's on a swivel. And I'm just like, what? And she's, and Ashley's, and she's like, look at me, look here, here, focus, focus. I'm like, I'm your partner right now. Okay. Okay. Cause there was, I mean, there was people walking by, there's this person over here doing this, this, I mean, there's so much going on. It's group play is very overstimulating. And she, caught me at the perfect moment and brought me back. And I didn't have any issues after the fact. But after she did that, because I could feel myself like, okay. You're in your head now. Kudos to Ashley, because she brought me back and she's like, focus. She's like, you're here with me. Stop. Focus here. And then we did that. And then we took a quick couple minute break. Like I'd just sip a water or whatever before. And then we kind of started mingling with other people. Like it was the perfect. Just kind of a reset. Yeah, it was really just like a reset. And it was like, okay, we're good now. Like I'm good now. But yeah, I've had the situation where a couple times. And that's the only reason why I started experimenting with this prescription, say Viagra, Cialis, Trimix. There's only three I've really. Those are the big ones. Yeah, those are the big ones. They're the ones I've had prescriptions for. But that's the only reason I got into those, started looking. Because when we're in private, I have zero problems. Zero problems myself. Private, even if it's like just another couple, zero problems. It's usually the group situations. And the very first time I had a problem was a group situation where it was like things are going along swimmingly. And Lindsay's right there on my shoulder. She's like, yeah, I like what's going on here. You know, I'm with another woman. And it was like, I have no idea what just happened. You know, there's like three or four other couples in the room. Yeah. Everyone seems to be excited but me right now. Yeah. And then that was that. And then Lindsay and I went back to the room and we were able to finish. Rectify the situation. Rectify the situation for both of us and move on. Absolutely. And we have done the same thing. I've tried both Seattle's and Viagra and they ahead of any situation at this point, just to be sure, because I don't know if it's going to be a group situation or not. I don't normally need it if it's just she and I or if it's just another couple or whatever. I just want to be prepared. Yeah. In case it's a very. So I always have. Such a big situation where there's a lot of distractions. Yeah. Like I said, I call it my insurance. I might not necessarily need it, but when I need it, I need it. Now, that being said, for everyone listening or watching, I have a doctor prescribed prescriptions. Please listen to him on this. For these medications. Yeah. Do not get one from your friend or somebody that you're in, you know, a play situation with. because you don't know what possible side effects that you might have. That's why they are doctor prescribed. You want to make sure that, you know, it's, it's not an expired pill, uh, because those can have issues too. Yeah. All sorts of different things. So yeah, absolutely. Taking a prescription medication. I mean, when you're dealing with medications that do basically they are blood pressure medication. Yeah. So if you have any type of underlying heart conditions and stuff like that, like that, like if I came like Rob, like, Like, I'm good. Like, you want one? Like, it's fine. And you're like, yeah, sure. And then you have a heart attack. You go have a heart attack because, you know, your blood pressure dropped or whatever it is. And boy, breast is going to feel bad. Yeah. No one wants that. No one wants anybody going, having a stroke or a heart attack or whatever in a playroom or period. But yeah. That really kills the mood. Yeah. Well, and there's lasting effects of these pills. If I, once I, a night I take a Viagra, I feel it the next day still. Oh, easily 36 to 48 hours. Yeah. And I'm not sure that Lindsay still understands that effect yet. I try communicating that to her. Like in that, like me and Ashley can just keep going all day. It's great. Especially if it's a two day event. And the first day I take a Viagra, that second day is so good. Like everybody's going to eat lunch and stuff. Me and Ashley are in the room. But yeah, I just wanted to preface. Well, I guess it's not preface because I said it after the fact. This is your sign. Start your new podcast for free today at rss.com. But I wanted to reinforce the fact that these are doctor prescribed medications. If you are curious about them, talk to your doctor about them. Or there's also places like Blue Chew, Shameless Care, Rugeant, which all have physicians to be able to ask these types of questions about. So I just want to say that. So I do want to circle back because you talked about that the woman thought maybe it was her originally from that time. And a lot of women do understand and they see this with guys. So I would say they are usually very understanding. And she specifically said, yeah, I get that. I had that problem too. No, she said to me, happens to me all the time. Happens to me all the time. Which I'm like, Like, which tells me, like, and she's in, she got in her head because she thought it was her was, she was the problem was not the case. And I felt so bad in that situation. I'm like, but there's really, at that point, there's nothing I can do except her to be like, no, stop. You know, I can do other things. And that might actually help me get back going. That usually helps me get back going. Yeah. So, but yeah, that was, that was, uh, not so much a hit to my ego, but I, there's a bad memory I have. because I felt like my performance anxiety made someone else feel bad. Yeah. Which is a whole different thing. I remember the first time it happened to me. I think the one story I'd related, I was actually thinking back even further back, Lindsay and I were having a problem. And so I was with a woman, we're in a group situation, and Lindsay wasn't in the room with me at the time. And I knew this woman, and she knew me, and finally she goes, what's going on? Because I wasn't getting up. Right. Like, I needed to correct something. So I told her, I said, you know, Linz is in another room and, you know, we got a little thing, you know, between us or whatever. And she goes, okay, stop. Like, you need to go be with her. Go be with your wife. And that'll fix things up for you pretty quick. And usually that is the case. That was the case. And that is, so again, me, like in that situation where me not, or say losing my heart on or not be able to get hard, it's not that person that's not my wife. It is my problem and my wife's problem. Like that is to rectify. Yeah. Or erectify. I love that. Get some shirts made. Yes. But. Trademark how couple couple. By HPV. Or ABV. HPV. But vanilla. But yeah. So it really isn't. Say. Where was I at? We went down a side road right there. We did. That's okay. That's fine. It's funny. We always talk about how we should just be recording all the time because we always have great conversations when the camera and the microphones are off. Yes. All right. So now let's talk about confidence. How do you give your confidence a boost? Because I know how I do it. I think we do it basically the same way. But because we have our day-to-day vanilla lives, say we have stretches where we don't do any lifestyle stuff for a while and when we're going getting ready for a pineapple weekend or event or something like that i'm not at my most confident i'm just beat down from work and life and everything how do you overcome that so if i take that scenario i'm not sure that i can overcome it i hear exactly what you're saying especially since um we had you You know, gone to so many different events, it's kind of got easier to pack and get ready and mentally. And so when they're stacked, like one on top of the other, it's like, I mean, maybe a couple of every couple of weeks or maybe every month or so, it's pretty easy to quickly get into the mindset. I go through a mental checklist of the things I want to have and all the things kind of build myself up and look myself in the mirror and say, yeah, I'm happy with what I see kind of thing. But if it's been a while, sometimes it's like, we're just going to see what the fuck. happens. Yeah. Is what it boils down to. It's like, we're going to see what happens and I'm going to ultimately forget something, which is why I, you know, my boxes. Yeah. So anybody that doesn't know Rob or been in a party with Rob, Rob brings everything, everything. He have a, what, two or three totes on a cart that you pull. And that's just from like the room box. Yeah. That's the room box. That's emergency stuff. Um, that is, um, shit. So you can't see anything. I love my wife. But our wives just came out with their boobs out. I can't show you. There were boobies. Because this is PG-13. And it was very distracting. So I do bring a box of everything. Yes, you do. And somebody will say, do you have a dry erase marker? Yes, I have a dry erase marker. Do you have tape for my heels for my shoes? Yes, I have tape for your heels. Well, and so in the rare occasions, because this has been a progression. Yes. So in the rare times, like, Rob, do you have this? It'd be like, no. Well, that's going in the box. I have a measuring cup in my box. Like, why do I have a measuring cup? Because I might need it. Because you might need it to make jello shots. That's right. You never know Yeah, it gets kind of silly But I still have room in the box for more So what we're talking about is How do we get ready to show up and show up One of the things that helped me early on Was discovering that I should do more than put on my dad clothes When we go out And that helped a lot to feel good About myself going out Finding an appropriate outfit, shoes Really dressing up more than A golf shirt and pants Slacks. Yeah. Yeah. My journey is like, it's, we think of the same way, but I started dressing like that before I got in the lifestyle. I started dressing like that when I lost a whole bunch of weight. You felt good about yourself. And I felt good about myself. When we got in the lifestyle, my confidence was already up here. Now, putting myself in a completely different situation that I had never been in before, brought my confidence down a little bit. Yeah. But I got the kind of like, well, you have the reputation now with your shoes and your jacket. And just your sparkly shirt or whatever it may be for that in particular night. Now polish. We know like we know you're dressing in something that fabulous. That's how I can put it. Something in your outfit is going to be fabulous. I literally have two closets of clothes now. When we were going to a whole bunch of different events and parties, whatever, I was always the one that was in a tie. Sports coat, a dinner jacket, a waistcoat, something, a three-piece suit. I was the one that I was always dressed up. And that kind of became my MO. And that's what I felt the best in. That's how I put my mental state in the best place where I could put my best foot forward. How was that received for you? So for me, I think it was mixed reviews. But so women, I found, loved it. and khakis hated it right it's why why are you so dressed up this and that i'm like this is what i feel comfortable in like are you hot well i'm a little warm but you know what it's gonna come off later like likely yeah and then but again i'm a person about details so like when i wear a tie i have a trinity knot i like your trinity i you know i wear french cuffed shirts so i have cufflinks i have lapel pins and pocket squares and little acts that I like are the little details that once somebody actually looks at what I'm wearing, they're like, oh, he put a lot of time and effort into the outfit. Kudos to that guy. He's probably somebody I want to talk to. Yeah, exactly. And that's, I don't know how many times, like, I love that lapel pin. Where'd you get that? Or what is your cufflink? Because I have cufflinks that actually got me years ago that are just gunmetal steel. They say daddy on them. Nice. You can't really tell. It's like a square cufflink. But when they hit the light just right, you can see it says something. Yeah. And I had one like, what do they say? I'm like, oh, here. And she's like, and loved them. Loved them. Like, yeah, my wife got them for me for anniversary or something a couple years ago. Starts conversation. And then couldn't find out those people. They were also in a DS, dynamic. And so it started a whole conversation of friendship there. I've had, you know, once the guy, like the guys realize, like biggest compliment I get from the guys is the Trinity. That's the biggest thing. Women pay attention to small details. Guys don't. Yeah. And they're like, what's that? Like, oh my God, look at that tie. I thought you were just some guy in just a regular tie. How'd you do that? This is not my goal. It's easy. I can show you. It takes practice. It does take practice. It works really good with a vest too. Yes, yes. Because it gets short. The tie gets short. Yes. Long torso guys like me, I need a longer tie. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. But yeah, if you don't have a vest on yet and you have a tie up, you're right. You're right. But that's how I always put my best foot forward was really taking time and thinking of the theme. How do I make that theme something that I'm comfortable in without looking like I didn't? didn't put any effort into the outfit. It's a good icebreaker. There's that. And also, especially when it comes to the women's optics from it, we both see it. Our wives spend hours getting ready. Yeah. Why would they waste their time to talk to a guy that spent five minutes to throw a polo on? Right. Hours getting ready. China looks absolutely beautiful to get ready for this party. And then some schmuck comes in in a polo and khakis and freaking loafers. You could be just going to Walmart in that outfit. But that's my, is I want to, like, they spend a lot of time on their outfits and getting ready. Spend at least five more minutes. I can at least spend 30 minutes your everything's shaved and trimmed. And if I had hair, I'd do my hair better. Yeah. I mean, that's just how I think about it. And some, some people don't care or think about it that way. They're like, Oh, it's just a party. We won't get naked anyways. Well, it's everything that leads up to that. That's for me. Right. Yeah. It's yeah. To me, my favorite part is the buildup to the play. Yeah. That is my favorite part. I want to be excited. Yes. I want to, you know, I don't want to necessarily say, okay, we're just going to turn it on. I want to have that build up piece of it. That build up also kind of alleviates the whole performance anxiety side of it. Oh, absolutely. If you and everybody you're with is into it and it's been building up for a couple hours, or if we're in chats or text messaging group texts or whatever, where we've been building up to, a re-meet or something like that for months. Those are the things that I enjoy about the lifestyle. That whole buildup and suspense and that butterfly feeling and dressing in the best way gives me a lot of times a couple hours with somebody to have that feeling. For sure. Yeah. And it absolutely helps with my confidence. Yes. I feel much better because I know that I'm looking good. about how I look and it helps a lot. Well, that's, I think, and we, you guys said it, I think we've said it, is dress to impress. You're there to impress somebody. Yeah. Even if it's just your, if it's your partner, you're there to impress somebody. You're there to have fun with somebody. So why not dress to impress? That's my hot take. Dress better, guys. Dress better. Do better. Yeah. Good job. Do better. All right. Before we wrap this up, I'm going to ask Rob a few rapid fire questions. Just spit out first thing on top of your head. No overthinking it. Just out of pocket. Let it go. Just let it go. Is it attraction or build up? Build up. Looks or energy? Energy. Confident or chill? Hmm. Chill. Flirty or direct? Shit. Right? I'm gonna go direct. I'm gonna go direct. Yes. But yes. Alright. Eye contact from across the room. Wait or make your move? Wait. Let me see if they make the first move. If one partners into it, the other one isn't, continue or stop? Stop. Ever been turned off mid situation? Hmm. That one's the heart on the rapid fire. Have they been turned off? Yes. Ever gone along with it just not to kill the vibe? Got to think about that a sec. No. Really? I have. I have. Is no drama realistic? Is no drama? Yes. I think that it is too. It is very realistic. No drama is realistic. I believe that's all I got. But I think so as well. I think. This is a hobby. It's fun. Yeah. So I think. Miscommunication stems the drama. And it's usually. It's. It shouldn't be a miscommunication between. Two separate couples. It should be. It's probably going to be miscommunication within a couple. That's where. Yes. The drama lives. Generally speaking. Generally speaking. Yeah. The drama usually. starts between a couple in itself. But again, we talked, we touched on emotional intelligence and stuff like that. If they don't have the EQ to deal with it internally, they start bringing people in. We don't bring our, we don't bring anybody in. We would bring you and Ashley in if we needed to talk through something and needed help. Right? That's because we're friends. Yeah, we're friends. Like, we're close. I think the only time you would come to us in that situation is if you more or less are, you can't seem to meet a happy medium and you need some type of mediator to see from a different, it's not so much for our advice or what we have to say. I think it'd really just be for, to see it from a different perspective to give you guys. From people we trust. Yeah, from people you trust. But it's not going to be a random couple that you just met like the day or night before. No, but I'm saying check it out the door and go home and figure it out. Yeah. I think that is say again, we've been in this space for a minute. We've seen some crazy stuff happen and it's always been from relatively newer couples that haven't done the work themselves. Yeah. Understood. Like we've seen some crazy situations and That's how me and Ashley came up with. That's a them problem. Right. Because especially Ashley. Me, I can be like, all right, bye, see ya. Ashley's so empathetic towards situations. I have to pull Ashley back because she just wants to help. She wants to. Yeah, she's a helper. She's a helper. She wants everybody to be happy and have fun. And everybody love everybody. And. I had to pull her back like, no, that's a them thing. That's a them problem. And this is an us thing. Let's go. Yep. They reach out to us later and ask us a couple questions. We can give them our input. But like right now, I'm not getting involved in that. Their emotions are too high for us to get involved in that. Irish goodbye like we do. And Irish goodbyes. We've done that. It's like, all right, bye. We did that. or emotions or anything, but when we were done at that party we went to in South Carolina, we really didn't know anybody there. Right. So like we knew the people, we met the people that were hosting it a few times, but we really didn't know them, know them. And like, we just dipped it. Like, like, you ready to go? Like, yeah, I'm ready to go. I'm like, all right, let's go. Unless you make a connection with somebody or you did some flirting ahead of time or something where you actually know people. Yeah. For us, it's very rare that there's a DTF situation for us. It happens from time to time, but for the most part, we want to be connected and understand who people are. So, yeah, I don't consider us a DTF couple. We might play the first time we meet, but that means there was some type of connection or an attraction. And, like, everybody's excited. Were they flirty and direct? Yes, they were flirty and direct. And so were we. And you've been there. You know it's so rare to find, like, that four-way connection where everybody clicked. It's like, oh, all right, this doesn't happen all the time. We're going to make sure. Let's make it happen. Opportunity. Yeah, it's opportunity. But that's opportunity and attraction. Attraction. Exactly. Flirty and direct. Opportunity and attraction. And that is really the real unicorn. Right. That is the real unicorn in the lifestyle. It's fun when it happens. It is. Yeah. But so I think a lot of people. I get very bouncy when that happens. You know. Yeah. You're all done. You're like. It's like this is great. Yeah. But I can't make it happen all the time and I don't want to make it happen. So. Was it a couple nights ago? Me and Ashley on our back porch. Like we. and we were talking about something lifestyle and i'm like i'm like when was our last swap true like just swap well we both came out of it like that was a great time yeah and we had to think about it like it's like because i mean one we don't really couple swap very often we do a lot of group play play with and play with friends it's usually more than just one couple there. Right, right, yeah. And so we had to think about when the last swap was. And we found it. We remembered. But we had to actually think about it. It's not like, oh, it was these people. I asked the question. She's like, when was it? We had to go back. We hit the timeline. And we're like, all right, who's the last couple we swapped with? We talked about it. And we went back in time. So we found them like, yeah, okay, that was the good one. That one was it. There was a lot of sweating. There was. There was. It was good. It was good. But anyways, before we get too far off the rails, and we get kicked off of YouTube, I want to thank Rob for hanging out with me. Everybody, go check out their website, which is anythingbutvanilla.life. They are on YouTube, Spotify, Anything About Vanilla podcast. They just released their... Season 2, Episode 1. There you go. The two-year gap. There you go. There's a two-year gap. Two-year gap, which, as you guys know, we took a sabbatical as well, so I'm not judging. We know it's a lot. It's a lot. Anybody that does a podcast understands it's a lot. And we'll be together on Fresh Fridays. Yes. Every third Friday of the month, we are hosting a themed event at Trapeze Atlanta. We have a... Google Doc. If you want to come early for a tour, if you've never been there before, it gets you in early. We'll get you everything set up. You get a tour of the club and you get our exclusive discount, which is listed on both our websites and on the post. So, yeah. That being said, it's not that serious. Don't make it weird. All right, guys. Thanks for coming in. Bye.