Bareback Exposure

Again, even when ATGATT, you take a risk. That's your risk. The more you ride, the more you risk. You are deciding to take your level of risk. Climbing to the summit of Mt. Everest is 1 in 10 even ATGATT, but people do it. Should we ban climbing?

There is no such thing as safe sex. So if you are truly concerned about risk, don't have sex with anyone else. But no one here is talking that safe. So all the discussion here is about what level of risk each of us is comfortable with.

We're happy that Poly, Scorp, and Nine don't bareback and don't play with those who bareback, and don't play with those who have an interest in what the actual risks of barebacking are. And that they don't play with those who disagree with them or think for themselves. Your service to swingers is above and beyond the call of duty. Thank you.

Everyone is responsible for their own safety.

"But to accuse those who bareback of increasing your risk is simply blaming others for the risk taking you do."

Well I do not do bareback and if the disease is passed on by say 98% of the people who do bareback who should be blamed ?

"I always prefer to go to the source for my information, in this case the doctors' sources. The internet makes it so much easier now than when you actually had to go to a university medical library in person to read the studies about HIV and such."

I remember those days. I used to go to the National Library of Medicine in Bethesda. Actually it was cool. I could watch videos of different operations. Follow up leads in references. There was this thing called a card catalog.

I loved it when I went back to school in 1994. I could access the library with out getting dressed. Sitting naked, with the cat chilling, and some tea. Now that was a break through!

Just like any information, You need to get it from reliable sources. I really like the American Social Health Association. It's clean from political influence.

I'm glad someone else has experienced MY reality. I've watched countless cases of folks just moving between folks..not a condom in sight. It's amazing there is not more disease.

I think I know why. Folks are highly suspicious of any ill feeling down there. She's off to the doctor in a heartbeat.

M.

Nine, one in 40,000 is low. Earlier I posted that my chances of dying in an automobile accident is aroung 1 in 100 over my lifetime. Climbing Mt. Everest carries a risk of 1 in 10 for reaching the summit. And that's hard work! Is my dying in a construction accident 1 in 40,000? Again, I don't know. But there are a number of risks in everyday life greater than that of HIV.

I don't encourage barebacking...I don't encourage any particular risk taking. But to accuse those who bareback of increasing your risk is simply blaming others for the risk taking you do. Swinging is risky. You can choose to not swing and face no risk from HIV. You can choose to soft swing and greatly reduce the risks of full swap. And you can use condoms in full swap and reduce your risk however much they do. The best way to reduce risk is reduce your number of partners.

So the condom user who fucks 10 different people per year may face the same risk as those who add only one extra partner per year but fuck bareback. Partner quantity is a large factor in risk. Reducing the number reduces the risk.

Barebacking from my perspective is stupid, irresponsible and VERY risky. But you go on right ahead and enjoy it, none of my business.
Just don't tell me that because I'm concerned for my and my spouses health and as a result choose to minimize the risk by using a beariers I need to get out of swinging. "

In regard to Jay and my swinging I am in complete agreement with this. And like us all who have been to some wild ass house parties we have seen some dangerous stuff going on. Like Poly said, we went to one and sat it out so to speak and what I saw caused us to really be super, super selective in what house parties we attend. It takes one sight of men going from woman to woman to woman to cause your stomach to turn and your mouth to hang open. Wow. But hey, that is their right. How we all swing is our business. And like Ring said, its just safer...not safe. Abstinence is the only safe bet. But I am going to protect myself and my husband. Not only because you owe it to your body to do all to protect it but because as parents of children it is our responsibility in my opinion to do all we can to protect each other. We rarely play with couples who are known to bareback and we ourselves do not bareback. We have before, I won't lie. But that was with a couple we knew impecabbly well.

Naw...the topic didnt stray too far from original topic. Its evolved to include legal ramifications of barebacking. Never thought of it the way someone mentioned...homeowners policy being affected. Imagine a swing party where barebacking is encouraged and hosts getting sued! It could happen! Just imagine asking your insurance company for a rider to cover THAT!

Yes, the chance of catching HIV sounds so low -- 1 in 40,000 as you said, but what if that one person is YOU?? Numbers mean nothing when YOU’RE the one dying.

Nine, I always prefer to go to the source for my information, in this case the doctors' sources. The internet makes it so much easier now than when you actually had to go to a university medical libary in person to read the studies about HIV and such.

For once Poly and I agree. Ain't no way hypothetically or otherwise!!!

Yea, always like how people try to turn it around :)

This forum sure did get off the topic of the original posting. HMMM

Legal.

I do remember some blurb about a woman who sued a man's home owners insurance because he gave her herpes...while she was in his home.

M.

Removed and reposted due to a name being mentioned. ;)

"There definitely are gangs of people on here that attempt to target people based on disagreement with one member. It seems that they email eachother and ask for support. Comments perceived as attacks on their friends lead to "collateral damage" disagreements on other issues. One tactic some childlishly use is to bury the serious topic by "posting to the top" stupid comments about weather, etc.

There are plenty of smart people on here who have seen first hand the MO of the "that" group. It's a childish power game. It takes a lot of effort to maintain, make sure everybody stays in-line, and with all the back channel communications to "enjoy" the harassment??

There is a very easy and wonderful way around it. If you block them, you can not see what they post. They only exist if you see someone mention them. I must say there is no curiosity regarding their posts. Why? Because it's clear they are still doing the same crap they always have been.

One thing I do wonder? If Akrid ever figured out that he was poly's puppet. You see, part of the MO is to have the others speak out and the leader take the high road. Actually, a very straight forward game. I'm glad others see through it too.

smiles

M.

“We don't. We feel there is no such thing as safe sex only safer sex. We feel it is our responsibility to minimize the risk for ourselves. We work on the assumptions everyone might have something. But at the same time we do not get to paranoid or we would never play.”

Rings moves to the bonus round as usual. Great job.
I totally agree. The older you get the more likely you will be exposed to something because more people have had time to catch some thing.

“ We have had an open marriage for 33 of our 35 years. We have never caught anything and yes we get tested on a regular basis.

Snip

“ I don't drink yet I have cirrhosis of the liver. It will probably be what gets me.”

I'm sincerely sorry you are ill. You may want to stop saying you never caught anything. If your liver damage is caused by Hep B or C. Hep-B is HUGELY contagious sexually.

So No I don’t go around checking who is playing with who. I merely adjust my behavior to the situation at hand. :)

Mischief has definitely caught STDs in my 30 years.
Virtually all of it in the late 70s fucking bi men.

Thank You Nine!!!!! You sexy Pirate You!

Well DeLina anything else I can do or give just holler :)

now 3 other points:

(1) I hate people like this ""Anyway I have said my peace.
I'm outta here."" why come into a forums say stupid things then leave ?

(2) and Poly you need to post a list of 'your gang' as stated:

"What I meant by "her gang" is whenever Poly lites in on someone you can guarantee that her friends will be in the room within a few minutes"

(3) last but not least DandJ go ask your doctor about the risk % if you have any balls :)

None of the information I've seen suggests that condoms reduce risk exponentially, especially not one thousand times. I'm not sure there has been a risk assessment done for condom vs bareback. As far as pregnancy is concerned, condoms are generally considered around 90% effective. If disease protection were on the same order as pregnancy protection, that would be a tenfold decrease in risk.

Assuming the above is true, with condoms you could fuck ten people for every one a barebacker fucks and have equal risks.

There are tons of ways to minimize the risk.Not all ways are close to 100% . Again communication.People love to talk.People love even more to talk about themselves.Let them.They will divuldge to you how often they play and with what types of people. You form your own ideas on what is a safe risk and what is not.
You can use condoms thinking safer sex.Used with the above even a more safer enviroment for youselves. If only a few percentage points at less risk.
With leakage,breakage,losing the condom the percentages go way down. The percentage your using I would tend to think will be when it works, not withstanding the leagage,breakage or lost condom. I say this as it is never brought up in the percentages.However I do speculate on the percentages of this happening when condom usage has been done by us. Sexual penetration does not stop with ejaculation,shrinkage!The condom does not shrink back into the shape it covers.
To really be in a safer enviroment you must really choose a different approach other then penetration with another. This can be your only conclusion for safer less risky sex.
It is like wearing a rain coat in the rain ,staying in the rain until it has stopped and not expect to be wet.
I think it is time people get over it ,accept differences ,say best of luck nice knowing you and move on.Make the best possible decision for you.However know there are people you will meet , have sex with who do not always wear protection I can understand the issue of someone thinking another has stupid practices without that person being stupid.The practice is in question. However this is also tied to the person for having stupid practices.
Each have thier own way ,have fun with whatever way you choose.

Hedo,
I have never said anyone should disagree with Poly.
Yes she and I disagree on 98% of things. Do I respect her for her opinions even the ones that differ from mine? Yes. I have always said that.

What I meant by "her gang" is whenever Poly lites in on someone you can guarantee that her friends will be in the room within a few minutes.

Anyway I have said my peace.
I'm outta here. Everyone have a nice day.

"Calling someone or what they do stupid is not debating. It is an attack."

that's your opinion mine is:

stupid is acting in an unintelligent or careless manner

which bareback in any form is !

and I do not need Queen Poly to inform me of this...

Poly had started some crap in another thread and we got into it. Angel opened the thread so we would not derail the thread we were in.

Hedo,
It has happened before. Remember how the whole Bitchfest thread began? Poly and her B.S.

No sweetbutt IS correct. We noticed too even though we have yet to have issue with her.. Poly has lots of "friends". Its not clear if they honestly just agree with her or post just to support her. Either way it makes it seem as if she's always "right".

There definitely are gangs of people on here that attempt to target people based on disagreement with one member. It seems that they email eachother and ask for support. Comments perceived as attacks on their friends lead to "collateral damage" disagreements on other issues. One tactic some childlishly use is to bury the serious topic by "posting to the top" stupid comments about weather, etc. This happened recently to us because we exposed Phlycop for what he really is.

Calling someone or what they do stupid is not debating. It is an attack.

You don't have to agree with what other people do, but it is their choice. Good or not it is their choice. All you have to do is state that you disagree with them and give your reasons. Calling a person or a choice stupid when your own choices in the bedroom would be considered wrong or stupid by many other people (talking about vanillas).

Still acting like a Knight in shining armor for the damsel huh?

"My My My, so it's supposed to be your way or not at all. "
Alt,
Welcome to the world of Poly. be careful dude. She has a gang that will stalk you and harass you if you disagree with her.

Alt said-"Our highest court said the government has no compelling interest in the ...3. non-commericial sexual activities between adults. " -Thats except for the government owned brothel in Vegas :-)~

Luving it said"We are tested regurarly, we have NEVER picked up any STD (other than a Yeast infection, and that was from one-and-other. lol) How do/did we do it, we are careful who we party with. Yes we know there is a risk. "
Congrats on staying healthy so far. But no matter how careful one is we'd think that the risk is too great to party with you. We do appreciate your candor and honesty which would make us WANT to have you as friends :) What we think needs to be pointed out is something they told us when we've done our screnings. However careful you are it is recommended that even after passing a screening that you go back 6 months later for another and NOT have sex in between with strangers since there is a gestation period. In that time period if you had contracted something and thought you were safe and had sex with someone else you could be passing it on or they could do the same to you even though they thought they were safe. Indeed ALL sex with others is risky. However, barebacking increases that risk exponetially not just a couple times. In a worse case scenario that might be THOUSANDS if you do the math.
Of course your method also involves trust and despite how well you may know someone there IS the chance that someone has been risky or has secret sex partners. Yes, we have friends who have been married 20 years and they claim they are safe. However, just think how many marriages end due to infidelity...not to mention the myriad relationships for which no records are kept. We still prefer to keep our guard up!