This bonus episode is the MON chat with Ella Venus as well as others. Listen to Ella s recent episode here https://venus.buzzsprout.com/822292/11333713-ella-is-back-with-a-revelation-cucks-we-see-you Destination Links for Venus - https://linktr.ee/venuscuckoldressThe Queen s Quarters Fan Destination - https://www.venuscuckoldress.com/Queens-quarterSupport the showDestination Links for Venus - https://linktr.ee/venuscuckoldressLearn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices❤️Venus Connections❤️ - Matchmaking for loving cuckolding relationships and female-led relationships. Learn more at https://www.venusconnections.com/ 👑♠️ Maison De Neige is high end lifestyle and streetwear fashion with a passion for the beauty of interracial combined with high fashion. Visit https://www.maisondeneige.com/ ❤️xoafterglow.com❤️ Meet the platform for ethical porn. Made by women, for women (and everyone). We make and share videos that portray sex accurately and treat performers with dignity, because nothing is sexier than consent. Use code VENUS for a free 7 day trial at ➡️ https://afterglow.ubpages.com/venus/Support the showDestination Links for Venus - https://lnk.bio/VenusPodcast
Transcript
Hey, are you looking for a hot wife? Maybe you're looking for a cuckold relationship. Then you need to join Venus Connections matchmaking service. It's totally private, it's fun blind dates, and all members are vetted. And it works. There was even a wedding last year and there'll be another one next year. It's definitely hard to find your life partner. I know. And it's even harder to find this kind of relationship. But you'll never win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket, right? So join VenusConnections.com. That's VenusConnections.com. And find the relationship of your dreams.
Coming up on this episode. You know, I think addressing the mental health aspects in the lifestyle for men is very important and helps them get comfortable inside the lifestyle. But we're never going to get fully comfortable until it extends past the lifestyle. So many of us, you know, we are taught through culture and media and so many different things to be performers in the bedroom and to be giving pleasure rather than pursuing our pleasure.
but i think you know to really show masculine energy you won't need to do any of that stuff so it's like that fragility itself is like it seems like a conundrum to say toxic masculinity when it's like it's not authentic masculinity these guys are like fuck it i don't need that and and that is that is literally what they We'll be right back.
it's like it's not authentic masculinity these guys are like fuck it i don't need that and and that is that is literally what they think and they think that way for a reason you know they think that way because no one has told them otherwise quote unquote like i'm being a little bit reductive and like but you know what i mean like when when we say that systems are made for men, what we mean is that it accommodates them. It complements who they are, how they are, generally speaking, very generally speaking.
And so because things generally support men, uphold men, and mirror men in the world, there's very little to say, hey, something's wrong. You are now listening to the Venus Cuckolders podcast, a place to learn all things cuckolding for the curious, the passionate, and the sexually empowered woman who wants it all. Go to venuscuckoldress.com to subscribe to the podcast, ask a question for the show, and find the elusive Venus Vault, a sneak peek behind the bedroom door. Now sit back, make yourself comfortable, and let's dive right into this episode of the Venus Cuckoldress podcast.
I'm your host Venus. Thanks for joining me today. And today I have a special bonus encore episode. So the last episode that came out or one of the last episodes that came out was with Ella and we discussed some pretty significant topics. and after that we did a moan chat on the moan app, which is a live audio app for sex positive conversations. And we did a kind of follow up chat regarding that episode. So I recorded it. And today I'm releasing that for you to have a little listen to.
So it is the two of us discussing it, but it's also we have some people from the audience pop up and we get their feedback and their questions about that chat as well, about that discussion and topic. So it is really very interesting. And before we jump into that, I just want to mention, this is such big news, but you may have heard already, I have chosen to show my face. And that was not an easy decision. I'm not afraid of being embarrassed or people knowing that I do this for a living as far as speaking about loving, cuckolding relationships.
However, I am, as a woman, scared that I will be murdered. So it is unfortunate that as women, we need to think about that. We have to be very afraid of that. So I made the decision to go for it. I am hoping that the men in this lifestyle will protect the women in this lifestyle from the men who hate women that speak out about sexuality. We'll see how that goes. But anyways, I also want to just mention, okay, the VenusCuckoldress.com website is brand new and improved. No more Patreon.
there is gonna be well there is uh the queen's quarters fan hub on my website that is replacing my patreon because it's way better i was quite limited with what i could do on the patreon website so now i have a lot more flexibility I'm able to do private chats, one-to-one coaching. And there's also courses on there in the Learning Center, as well as the blog. There's a private podcast, as well as you can listen to the regular podcast. And with there's bonus episodes, there's early access to all of these episodes.
And there is a community where you can chat with others oh my gosh what is that there's so much there's key holding there's access to my private snapchat um there is oh my gosh being a helpful cuck like so much stuff anyway you have to check it out i'm so so happy with it. The way it turned out is venuscackoldress.com. So go and check it out. All right, let's jump into this bonus encore episode with Ella and myself talking about our recent conversation that we had here on the podcast. Here we go.
This is such a fun opportunity, Ella, to be able to talk to you about this episode that we just did. And so for those of you in the audience who have no idea what the fuck we're talking about today. You should have listened to the episode. No, just kidding. It was really good. But anyway, earlier this year, I had Ella on as a guest on the podcast. And it was such a really great podcast.
It was meant to be just to talk about what it's like to be a single woman looking for this kind of loving cuckolding relationship and we did talk about that but you also like talked about men and their ability to express their or inability to express their emotions and you said something that really fucking stuck with me and it stuck with a lot of other people, where you said we live in something to the effect of, we live in a society that doesn't give opportunities, it's not set up in a way to give opportunities for men to be challenged to be able to communicate their emotions effectively, or learn how to.
And I was like, you were like, this system is made by men for men. And because of that, they don't have the opportunity to do that. And I was like floored by that. Cause I never thought about that. I literally had guys who were messaging me and they were like, I feel like I've seen something and I can't unsee it. Like, I feel like it was just like really enlightening for for them because they'd never even thought about it that way. But it was it's so true. And so I've been thinking about that for months and months and months.
And then, you know, over the past little while, I've heard here on the Moana app, some of the cucks, whether they're singles or a couple, but mostly the single ones who have talked about having gone to therapy to learn how to process their emotions and communicate their emotions in, you know, an effective and healthy way and basically investing in their mental health. And I was like, that's amazing. And the more they talked about doing that, the more other guys said, yeah, I, I've been to therapy too, but I just never admit it because guys aren't supposed to go to therapy.
And I was just like, wow, this is okay. This is amazing. This is really great. And I was, I've been speaking to some women in the, in the lifestyle who have struggled with their partner, their cuck, going through this kind of, you know, emotional issues and them not being able to do the work to be able to process it and communicate it effectively. And it caused all sorts of problems in relationships.
And I was like, oh, my gosh, like, I feel like there's work that needs to be done when it comes to, for sure women too, but I'm talking about this cuck specific, very unique struggles that cucks go through because of what society expects from them and what this kind of relationship can create as far as a moral mental struggle or self-esteem struggle. So I knew there was work that needed to be done. But it wasn't until I read that viral article titled The Rise of Single Lonely Men.
It literally went fucking viral across the world like this shit was everywhere and the internet thought it was kind of funny because one of the main points of the article is that women are becoming more choosy they're raising relationship standards and therefore not willing to just enter into any old relationship anymore they're being a lot more choosy. They're raising relationship standards and therefore not willing to just enter into any old relationship anymore. They're being a lot more choosy. And so there's a lot of men who are becoming, are single for longer periods of time.
And of course, you know, the internet chuckled about that because, you know, women have been seemingly put up with a lot of shit for a long time. But you made some great points about that, and we'll talk about that. You made some great points about that in the episode. But it wasn't until I read that where he said women want three things. They want someone who is emotionally available. They want someone who is a good communicator and someone who shares their values. So women who are dating want those three things.
And he brought up the point that there's a skills gap because we just don't teach boys to communicate their emotions at all. And so there's this big skills gap. And I think probably a lot of men were not aware of that. And that's part of the reason why this article has gone viral. But when I read that, and then I realized all this work that needs to be done with Cux, and then you know how all of these couples who I've interviewed have, all of these amazing couples who are flourishing in this lifestyle, they all have said, they all echo the same thing. Their communication is next level.
This is not baseline. This is next level communication. Varsity level, as Ella calls it, varsity level communication. And I was like, well, damn. Now, for those of you in the audience, you probably have heard that I have a matchmaking service for singles who are looking for a loving, cuckolding relationship, emphasis on the relationship, heavy emphasis, and less so on fantasy fulfillment. And so this is important for me. This topic is very important for me because there's all of these guys out there who are single who are looking for this kind of relationship.
And then I see the women, I get to know the women who are also looking for this kind of relationship. And they are looking for that kind of high level communication, that kind of emotional intelligence and not finding it a lot. So, um is uh one of the success stories of venus connections my matchmaking service she was yeah she was in in the service and was paired up with her current partner and and they're having a great time so welcome ella thanks so much for joining me on the Moan app today. Let's dive right into this discussion today. What are your thoughts on the episode that we recorded?
Interracial, black and white, the beautiful and sexy relationship dynamic that we love now in a lifestyle clothing brand you can wear with pride don't sacrifice quality and comfort any longer with Maison Dines you get both in fresh empowering looks for every occasion for everyone from the streets to the sheets and everywhere in between check us out at Maison Dinesh.com. Maison Dinesh Couture, modern fashion for the modern revolution. Well, I listened to it twice since you released it. And you know, how, when you get into these, when you get into these, like, conversations, they flow.
So like, I always feel like our conversations flow Venus. Like since the first one, we like talked for hours and it was so fantastic. And I almost didn't remember what I said because I was just going and taking up a lot of space. But I, when I, when I went back and listened to it, I was like, okay, yeah, I'm, I'm happy. I'm happy with the flow. I'm happy with some of the points we both made and hoping I didn't take up too much time and everything, but yeah, I would love to hear. I mean, I, I, even, even after this intro that you just did, I have some new thoughts. I'm like, oh yeah.
And that reminds me of this. And we didn't talk about that last time. So, you know, I have a lot of thoughts, but overall I'm very happy and proud that we had that conversation. And I would love to hear how it resonated with people, any feedback you've gotten.
And then, yeah, maybe sort of talk about this, this very thing that we're bringing up that's just kind of like we want to see everyone be able to match with each other communicate with each other get along with each other and there's this universal experience this like this experience that's so broad and so um universal amongst typically women that they can't find partners that are able to match them on these sort of interpersonal skillsets.
And these are crucial skillsets for thriving, functioning relationships that are healthy and mutual and all these beautiful things that we're sort of looking for in most, in like all relationships but seems to be very much a requirement of the loving cuckolding relationship so it is so specific to this lifestyle and to what you do venus and um such an important topic because we're trying to create these success stories and create people's versions of successful relationships that incorporate this loving, kinky, romantic, exciting, you know, element.
And I'm so curious to hear people's feedback and hear what people have to say about like, getting everyone on board with understanding this concept, and maybe even embodying and practicing those skill sets that we're talking about. Yeah. So I had a little bit of feedback from the episode and it was definitely controversial. It was, I think, enlightening for a lot of people. He said he found a lot of it very interesting and, but he was defensive with some of the remarks, some of the statements that were made and he felt defensive about it.
I did not, I was not able to get any further details about that, but I was, you know, not surprised. And I, I think probably, you know, one of the reasons why that article went viral is because it is provocative. Like this is something that can easily be twisted around to, you know, men are just, you know, shitty partners or something like that, you know, like it's just, and that is not how that article was written at all. In fact, it was basically like, hey, these are the challenges that we've got going on right now.
There are some good things that are, you know, happening in the right direction. But as men, we need to, you know, come together and really invest in our mental health. And he talked about the positives that can come from it. He said, ultimately, we have an opportunity to revolutionize romantic relationships and establish new, healthier norms, starting with the first date. It's likely that some of these romances will be transformative and healing, disrupting generational trauma, and establishing a fresh culture of admiration and validation.
So I do understand why these kind of conversations can be a little bit touchy. But the potential, like if we like just, you know, talk about this and realize that, hey, there is a skills gap and we do really need to do something about it. And if we do, there are great things that can happen. And I think that the author was able to point that out in a really nice way. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
I think if we see this from a positive, solutions-oriented perspective, I would like to think that that would open the door to more people able to listen and able to sort of take in what is, for some, really difficult information. I think we touched upon it a few times when we said, this isn't easy. It is painful. It does hurt. It is hard. And it is work. We're not, you know, minimizing the fact that this is work. And I am not surprised to hear that someone said they were, they felt defensive emotions around hearing some things we had to say. That doesn't surprise me. and that's okay.
Like defensiveness is, um, you know, if you go to therapy, something you'll hear over and over again is feelings, aren't facts, they're information. So things that you feel things that happen to you, it is information to observe and say, Hmm, why am I feeling that way? Oh shit, that's uncomfortable. Okay. I'm feeling uncomfortable. How do I start to feel safe? How do I start to feel grounded? You know, and these tools start to come out in this inner monologue that sort of parents yourself through difficult things starts to come out.
And so when someone says they feel defensive, absolutely, that's totally fine. That's a valid reaction. And we hear, I hear that, you hear that. And like we and like we said it's not surprising this is a provocative subject it's a touchy subject there's a reason it went viral there's a reason people are feeling controversial about it and you know no one's experience is the same as other people's experiences which is why i think you're going to have people looking at this article saying hell yeah that's right 100 that's my experience and he's right.
And you're going to have people looking at this article saying, hell yeah, that's right. 100. That's my experience. And he's right. And you're going to have people looking at that article being like, fucking bullshit. That's not how it works. That's not, that's not, no one I know is talking that way. That's not my experience. So, yeah, wide variety of perspectives, wide variety of responses, and all of that is okay. And I just, you know, when I hear someone say, I felt defensive at your remarks about this, that to me is an indicator that something made someone feel uncomfortable.
And that's okay. And as long as we can have a constructive conversation, and a conversation isn't about shutting other people down. A conversation is about trying to listen to each other and absorb each other's information and making like sort of valid, like clear, lucid arguments about why your perspective, why you want that other person to think the way you think or why you want them to listen to your perspective.
The internet is full of shutting people down, shutting conversations down, putting people down, making ad hominem attacks, like attacks on someone's person that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. And those are things I'm not here for, but I am here for valid conversations and exchanges that are disagreements. You can come up here and say, I want to challenge something you said and here's why. And I'm here for that and I'm here to listen to that. And defensiveness is a little difficult.
Sometimes that can get in the way of making these constructive conversations, but it's also totally valid to feel that way. And what are you going to do. Like just, just these conversations, I think, opens up doors for people to think and feel differently and start to interrogate stuff that maybe feels a little uncomfortable or, you know, maybe feel validated by something they think or feel, you know, which I think we all kind of need a little bit of validation around the subject. Women are here to say we have a little bit more convincing to do than people have defensiveness for.
You know what I mean? Oh, I lost your signal. Sorry. There you go. Yeah, I'm back. Sorry. My sister tried to call me. Anyways, that was the end of mine. That was it. We can continue to move on and get some feedback as well. I think what you said right there is so great because you know, these emotions are going to happen. And that's a great example of like, you know, how do you use those? How do you interrogate those emotions? How do you think critically about them? How do you process them? How do you communicate them? How do you put that into your own experience and stuff like that?
So those are skills that don't come just naturally. Those are learned skills. And that's what therapy is for. In that article, the author said, I thought this was beautiful. He said, what can men do? They can level up their mental health game. And I love the way that he, the words he used this. This appeals to men. Talk about a game.
Men are like, yeah, I know how to do that and he said men need to see intimacy romance and emotional connection as worthy of your time and effort and I was like oh my gosh that is so that's it because there is this well of course we we think that dating is dating we it. You know, everybody's done it at some point in their life, gone on a date. And we just, you know, think we present ourselves. We engage in conversation. We, you know, here's what we have to offer. Do you have chemistry with this person? And if you, you know, fall in love, then everything just falls into place.
That's the amount of effort that's needed, required to date. And what he's saying is that actually, you need to do some work. And you need to feel like that work is a priority for you to invest in, investing in your mental health. And this is going to be uncomfortable for a lot of people because they're like, I'm single. I know what I want. I want to partner in this loving, cuckolding relationship. I'm going to, you know, join a dating service. I'm going to put a profile up. I'm going to do these things. And I'm going to start meeting people or connecting with people or talking with people.
Now what we're saying is actually you need to do some work before you get to that step. And that's going to be tough because they're like, well, I don't want to. I don't want to wait months until know possibly start meeting somebody this seems like this seems like a task like you know and so I can understand why people are going to be like fuck that I don't want to do that I know how to date I can date like I know how to talk about my feelings and and so this is going to be really tough, but he, the, the author said that the answer is individual therapy.
You need to learn the skills and invest in your own mental health. And once you do so, you're going to have what he said, transformative kind of relationships. And I really do agree with that. I feel like that that is what will happen if men start to invest in their mental health like that. Yeah, absolutely. And you just gave a really great example of the line that you mentioned from the first podcast that I was on with you about men not having an opportunity for their world to be interrupted enough in order to realize anything is wrong. And you just said like, these guys are like, fuck it.
I don't need that. And that is literally what they think. And they think that way for a reason. They think that way because no one has told them otherwise, quote unquote. I'm being a little bit reductive and like, but you know what I mean? Like when we say that systems are made for men, what we mean is that it accommodates them. It complements who they are, how they are, generally speaking, very generally speaking.
And so because things generally support men, uphold men, and mirror men in the world, there's very little to say, hey, something's wrong, or hey, someone has a problem with you, or hey, red flag, or little uncomfortable nagging feeling in the back of your neck. You know what I mean? And when you don't have those experiences, of course, you're not going to think that you should go to therapy. You know what I mean? Of course, you're not going to think that there's anything wrong, quote unquote, because things are flowing in a way.
There's this sense of flow, this lack of disruption to your health, wellness, world, access, everything. Yeah without that disruption, it's going to be very hard to think that there is work to do or there's a skills deficit or that people are doing emotional labor around you and for you. So you really hit the nail on the head. That is a very common response and that's okay, but let's talk about why that's a common response. Let's identify sort of what's going on behind the scenes there. And it doesn't mean that everything is okay just because you feel everything is okay.
Like I said in the podcast that you just released, there we have too many voices speaking up, raising their hands, saying, that's not okay. I'm not okay. This isn't okay. You have a monolith of women saying, hello, I can't find men to partner with because these are the requirements now. It's not partnering with men just to survive anymore, which is where women have come from. We couldn't have our own bank accounts or credit cards until 1974, people. We weren't even allowed to have our own money until 1974. That is less than a generation away from now.
And so this is just this sort of slow evolution of freedom. I don't know what I want to say. Getting out from under the thumb, so to speak. And I don't mean to say these things because they, they sound negative. Maybe they feel negative. Maybe it hurts to hear it, you know, but I say these things to try to just be accurate. This is literally what has happened. If we can't literally say what has happened, we don't have a shared history. We don't have a shared reality and we can't have a shared, these shared values like that we keep talking about. Women are up here saying value systems.
I want someone who has these values, you know, But he's very good. We don't have a shared reality and we can't have a shared, these shared values like that we keep talking about. Women are up here saying value systems. I want someone who has these values, you know, these values of caring, of equity, of responsibility and accountability. Accountability. Yes. So we got to have these conversations and we do have to be blunt and that will, you know, be potentially be uncomfortable, but ultimately it should just be liberating for everyone in the end. Yes. Oh my gosh. Well said. Well said.
I'm so glad this is recorded. Yes. That's great. I do agree that our conversations could go on for hours. Yes. They're really good. I think when I interviewed you for Venus Connections, we did talk for a long time. We did. We did. I was so impressed that you blocked out two hours because I know you take an hour to talk to people at least. Yeah, it used to be an hour. It's less now. Yeah, yeah. But anyways, I totally appreciate that because that was such a, just made me feel so connected to you and so connected to another woman in this lifestyle felt so gratifying. Yes, absolutely. Okay.
Let's, uh, I think those connections are so important and up until recently have been very, very uncommon to have those connections with women in the lifestyle. So fuck, thank God for that. Um, and I do think that the Moan app is, has been just amazing for that, being able to connect people in this lifestyle where we didn't have the opportunity before, especially for the men to be able to talk to each other. Like, I think it's just been amazing for that. Amazing. Okay, let's open it up to anyone who wants to comment, question, yell at us, whatever. I'm kidding. Don't yell at us.
I don't like that. But if anybody wants to pop up, just raise your hand and you're welcome to. And there we go. We have James who wants to come in. Hello, James. Thanks for popping up.
thanks for not too shy yeah happy wednesday to you both i really enjoyed the episode uh actually just got my homework done yesterday in preparation for this this call um you know i i think addressing the mental health aspects in the lifestyle for men is very important and helps them get comfortable inside the lifestyle but we're never going to get fully comfortable until it extends past the lifestyle um where you uh we can be open about it in general society and not be shunned uh even by other people who have the same feelings but haven't come out yet they've got to they've got to keep Thank you.
general society and not be shunned uh even by other people who have the same feelings but haven't come out yet they've got to they've got to keep the image up yeah i think that's the scariest thing for well for me um you know i'm willing to talk about it as much as i can inside this small group but you get outside into normal society it's still extremely intimidating for men to admit yes yeah uh and we talked about that on the podcast we talked about the expectations of men and uh that society puts on them and why this kind of relationship fucks with their mental health so much because of that kind of toxic masculinity that's happened from birth for men.
And that I found was really fascinating because I'd heard the term toxic masculinity and I didn't really know a lot about it like I kind of in my mind kind of thought oh this must be it kind of thing and you know heard a few conversations here and there about it but it wasn't until I think it was here on the Moan app right in the beginning when the Moan app first launched there was a woman who came in to one of my chats, and she made a comment about how these kind of relationships really challenge society's ideas of masculinity. And I was like, that's it. Like, that is literally it.
And so I think I like what you what you said about how, you know, this things won't change until people are a feel safe to be able to just be who they are within this kind of loving relationship. I agree entirely. There is that flip side where people say, would it be as much as a turn on and thrilling and exciting if it wasn't so taboo, though? And I was raised by a very liberated mother. And so I wonder if that made me a little more comfortable, you know, experimenting and stepping into this lifestyle. And I don't know, since I only have one viewpoint.
But yeah, my mom was very against that that toxic masculinity and she talks about how testosterone is the you know what's wrong with the world on a regular basis oh i love okay great i love it but uh yeah so i that's all i wanted to come up and talk about is is i love the fact that the two of you are getting this conversation going inside the lifestyle and i think everybody who's listening in needs to continue to spread it you know spread this the big question is is how does it leak out into you know outside of our our group Yeah.
So, James, to be clear, when you say this is to spread outside the lifestyle, are you saying men want to be safe openly saying that they're cuckold? Or are you saying that men just want to be safe challenging patriarchal norms in open society? Actually, both. I'm glad you make that distinction because really both. I think if you have more men who are comfortable with saying, I am a cuckold, my wife plays with others, I think you'll actually get more men saying, me too. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Blind, you know, surveys say, you know, this is a very highly rated fantasy for a lot of men. Yes.
And so I think you'd have a lot more that say, hey, I'm not alone. Me too. But then you also get back to the patriarch part of it. Yeah, you've got to address the people who will directly attack these males that they see as lesser beings, and that needs to stop as well. Yeah. I think, you know, what we're sort of talking about is maybe reaching a tipping point, so to speak, right? We want to reach this tipping point where we start to see us cascade in the other direction towards more equality, more open gender identities, less pigeon held binary, you know, again, patriarchal norms.
And I think, I think that there, there are ways to do that. I mean, who knows what will happen in our lifetimes, but when men go out, like you could go out there as a cuck and you could just like if you are in a position to be in your body comfortable in your body and say yeah i'm a cuck and then also display these sort of like masculine qualities that representation is very powerful and that representation could influence other men one one, to be safe, challenging typical masculine norms, and two, to be more open sexually.
You know, like one might follow the other, but one could, I imagine that once we change sort of like masculinity norms, then we may be able to be a little bit more free sexually because these things are sort of connected. But again, you could do it the other way around where there are people out there going, I can be where and when appropriate. I can be open about my sexual lifestyle and my sexuality because there's no shame in it and there's no issue with it. And it doesn't challenge your own unique sense of masculinity, however you present.
And that, I just will say representation is powerful. We, we believe the stories around us and we soak up the things around us and they do change. They do change how we see the world. They do change what we see as beautiful, acceptable, normal, et cetera.
So if you guys, for those who do go out there and men put put on a skirt but they're a cis hetero man boom there you go like their little boy wants to wear a skirt go wear a skirt with him you know what i mean like those are the types of things where you see these these visual representations of disruption um they do change people's minds now people will get angry and violent and defensive first, but that's part of the process. Yeah. And you're right.
If you look at all the changes that have happened in society, when you go all the way from civil rights to the acceptance of the LGBTQ community, strides are being made by the people that had the guts, uh, to, to risk it all, um, to come out. And I think you're right. That is going to be a big step of people getting comfortable enough in their own skin to, to do that. We have a long ways to go. We do. We do. Every little step counts though.
Well well thank you so much james i really appreciate your question and and your your comments on it um okay sean hello sean welcome hello both venus and uh ella hi thank you guys so much for that uh that talk on that episode but there's one thing um because i know venus i did send you on patreon some kind of like brief response but um i can't remember all that i said but i think one thing that um that i think people could talk about because i know jordan peterson has talked about this on his podcast and others as well about this notion of fragile or, you know, toxic masculinity, saying that, like, you know, I think a more accurate, you know, description of it would be more like a lack of masculinity because I think true masculinity would be, you you're you just take care of your own you love you're you're quiet you don't have to have anything to prove um and it's like you know if you're if you're showboating and if you're aggressive and you're hurt in some way that's fragile and that's like you know that's that's not that's not a fully integrated human being that's not a fully integrated person or a man um so it's like you know there's this you know i'm not i'm not one for saying okay men should be this way but i think you know to really show masculine energy you won't need to do any of that stuff so it's like that fragility is like, it seems like a conundrum to say toxic masculinity when it's like, it's not authentic masculinity.
I mean, I always wondered what you guys thought about that. Wow. I like that word. I was, you know, as you were speaking, Sean, I was like thinking the word I, in my mind would be authentic masculinity like um and and you're right the kind of fragile fragility of um of some men is a symptom of uh i guess being not having uh like i guess we would call it like a um yeah authentic kind of unadulterated uh masculinity that's how i see it without an issue yeah these are guys that haven't really been i mean i i speak for my expense myself with experience i'm working on this stuff but.
But it's like, you know, this is not, you know, these people have, men in our generation, in our society, don't get initiated. You know, there's not that male initiation that happens. And I think that is a problem sometimes. I don't know how we fix that, how we started.
But it's like,'s like you know i think with that we would have guys that have more authentic masculine attitudes or behaviors where they don't need to showboat or be aggressive right because what ella was mentioning on the episode was that you know the how how boys are harmed is they're you know molded to fit into that, what exact, how they, how boys are harmed is they're, you know, molded to fit into that, how to behave, what to say, how to look, everything like that by society. Am I correct? Did I say that right, Ella? Yeah, no. I mean, you absolutely distilled it in a great way.
It's the bell hooks, the first act of violence quote, which I find so poetic, but yeah, that's what we're saying. Young boys and men are harmed by this system as well. And we're all sort of in it together in that sense. And if we could sort of come together and say we'd like things to be different for everyone's betterment, then we have a common goal. Yes. Hi, Scarlett. Hello. Oh my gosh. I am playing hooky at work to be here. So excited about this chat. Ella, it is a pleasure. I've been a friend of Venus and a friend of her show for a long time. And I was so struck by your first episode.
And I just remember texting UV and be like, who was your latest guest? She is incredible. Thank you. Yeah, I'm just so glad that she's brought you back and happy for your update that you shared about the success of the Venus Connections program for you and that you are blissfully in a relationship. That's fantastic. You know, I'd love to hear your thoughts on something.
I am a big nerd when I'm thinking about the societal impact and the systemic impact on just human expression of sexuality and how that is so intersectional right with our own like unique individual experience um and i you know have experience in the cuckolding dynamic and i've written about my experience in it and you know one thing that i'm curious to get your thoughts on, you know, in these systems of power, in patriarchy, in suppression of female sexuality throughout the ages, it's very difficult, I think, to—we were talking about authenticity earlier—it's difficult to kind of delineate for women, I feel, for a lot of women, what is my authentic sexual expression versus what is a performative sexual expression?
So many of us, you know, we are taught through culture and media and so many different things to be performers in the bedroom, um, and to be giving pleasure rather than pursuing our pleasure. Um, really a transformative process. And it's a process many women go through when they're initiated into a non-monogamous dynamic like swinging or cuckolding or hot wifing, especially cuckolding, right? Because the very pillar of cuckolding is women pursuing their pleasure with the support and celebration of their partner, right?
And yet, even though that's the case, I feel like there are still a lot of performative elements, especially in the media surrounding cuckolding. Have you given any thoughts to this? And like, how has this intersected with your personal experience? Just like, have you intersected at all with the male gaze in cuckolding? And what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, this is such, thank you, Scarlett. This is a fantastic question and a fantastic subject. Have I thought about it? Absolutely. The male gaze, my own internalized male gaze. Yes.
I identify a lot with some of the challenges and intersections you spoke about because, well, my first, one of my very first thoughts is, you know, I've done a little bit of sociology, a little bit, a lot of psychology and a little bit of neuroscience. So there's some, I'm a nerd in those areas as well. And what I will say is some people theorize that all behavior is performance. When are we not performing? When are we not, is there, is there a truly subjective experience, a subjective way of being knowing, do you change knowing you're observed?
Are you your more authentic self when you're by yourself? You know, like what, what. This is sort of the interesting questions to ask ourselves. We don't really have answers for it, but they're very interesting to sort of ponder. Regarding the women and the lifestyle, I think we do have a challenge.
I think we do have a challenge to own our sexuality as something that serves us, regardless of how complex or complicated or our own sexuality may be, the way we view ourselves, the way we view our own pleasure, how we get our pleasure, the things that are set up to deliver this sort of pleasure experience, this erotic experience. But how do we center ourselves in this? And what does it mean to do that? And what do we sort of have to deconstruct around us or within us to have this authentic, quote unquote, experience? Well, I don't know if there is this like pure authenticity.
I'm not sure that that's a thing that exists. So for me, the goal would be to be comfortable in my own body, comfortable with the people I'm involved with and feel like I'm empowered and in control, quote unquote, of the situation. And that's something that I come, you know, I have a background of having some sketchy or questionable scenarios that in hindsight, I'm like, oh, that wasn't good. Maybe not do that again, or maybe not put myself in that situation again, or maybe not realizing how much power I gave up in order to have a sexually fulfilling experience.
Whether I felt it was fulfilling or not in the moment, whether I felt it was fulfilling or not in hindsight, we do put ourselves through some things where it's like a little performance, a little male gaze, and our own internalized eroticized fantasies, the things that really do get us going. How do we separate that from the society in which we live? Well, you don't, you know?
So for example, one of the things that I think about a lot is bimboification, which is a kink that I, I, I wonder sometimes I'm like, is it something that we authentically want like to, to sort of alter our bodies in these ways because it brings us joy?
or is it because it brings us acceptance and power under a system that says this is what beauty is you know what i mean and those things can't be separated but at the same time you can say that people literally derive joy and have consensual erotic experiences with bimboification and that's okay you know so how do we interrogate the things where they come from understand how we need to be empowered and safe and then say and then we're gonna go ahead and do this because it's fucking hot you know I don't know.
interrogate the things where they come from, understand how we need to be empowered and safe, and then say, and then we're going to go ahead and do this because it's fucking hot. So it's such an interesting conversation, but this is why we want a society where everyone starts to feel safe. I think I'll just emphasize that. I know I emphasize that in the podcast at least a few times, but I say the values we're looking for, a culture of safety, a culture of care, a culture of equanimity, a culture of consent.
Because once we start to have these things rooted in all these areas of our lives, we'll start to see it reflect back at us in our sexual erotic lives as well.
because we do the soup we live in as this one of my phrases i don't know how else to say it so hopefully that like you know resonates but the soup we live in the things that we soak up completely Because we do, the soup we live in, as is one of my phrases, I don't know how else to say it, so hopefully that resonates, but the soup we live in, the things that we soak up completely unconsciously, most of it is unconscious, informs how we think and feel and create value systems around all our rituals and traditions and relationships.
And once we start to see this stuff thread throughout these positive, healthy things that promote wellbeing and community and love and interrelate, you know, relating to one another, you know, creating bonds, then we can start to see it also reflect in our sexual norms and practices. But I, but at the end of the day, and I've had this, I've had this conversation with a friend before, with several friends before, I don't know. I don friends before, what turns you on is what turns you on. Find a way to do it safely and consensually. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much.
So much of that resonated with me. And I really do believe that it is a personal journey of growth and exploration and honing in like what you described, like, and all of that has to come from safety. If we don't feel safe, we really can't do any of those things, um, authentically. And I just, gosh, I could hear from you and talk to you. I hope to connect with you. I'm smiling. I'm smiling so much right now, you guys. Thank you. That's so, you're so sweet to say that.
And I think that like what, what another thing that was mentioned in the episode, just briefly is, you know, you guys talked about this app being a space where we have heard more cucks, I, you know, connect with each other and offer support to one another. And I think for women, that's really crucial, too, or for femme-identified folks. And that's, you know, what my organization, The Slut Sisters, is all about, you know, is part of that personal journey for you may be the reclamation of the word slut or the reclamation of your personal pussy and pushy pleasure and everything there.
And so I think that is really powerful too. Once we have safety, we can then have supportive communities and then we don't journey alone. Right. And, and so, but it takes bravery and courage to do that. And so I'm just so grateful that you've, you've come and done this moon today. Thanks for letting me pop up, Venus. Yeah, thank you. So happy to have you chime in. My pleasure. I'll pop down now. Thank you to both Sean and Scarlett for chiming in on that. Safety.
I have been talking about safety for uh well i i think i what the at least a year at least a year yeah where i realized how important it is in this lifestyle and i i felt i'm not gonna lie like i felt felt like maybe because I'm single, safety is a huge thing for me, like massive. And it's, you know, front and center in my mind, safety on all levels. And I felt like when I spoke about it to people like, hey, you know, we should really build a culture of safety in this lifestyle. I really felt like it was kind of like hearing crickets. And I wondered why.
But that's why I'm so happy to hear that it's, you know, in these conversations, safety. And you're absolutely correct. We will not be able to move forward unless we build that culture of safety for all of us. So thank you for that. And building a culture of consent. This has been a big conversation recently with myself and a lot of other people in the lifestyle, I think as women, what we are doing with this lifestyle is transformative because we are owning it and we are really making a statement on what it is to us and what possibly it should be for women. And I think that's what Dr.
David Lay was writing about when he did his article in January on Psychology Today regarding cuckolding and the shift in cuckolding in that it is what has historically been something very male-driven is now shifting and the women are taking hold of it and saying, hey, this is actually, there's more to it than just what he wants and what he wants to see and what he wants to do and his needs and his wants and everything like that. And there's actually, we are going to own this shit.
And I am so sick and fucking tired of having men dictate to me what my sexuality should look like sound like and feel like i am i'm done with it like i was done 10 years ago but i'm definitely done now i will not fucking tolerate that shit at all And so I am so happy to have these conversations where we can you know period yes oh my gosh people want to come up i'm ignoring okay castaway yay cutie yay come on up boys um i think a castaway put something in the chat where he was like can we have team ella hashtag team ella t-shirts i'm like fuck yes oh my god yes wow team ella all the way that you guys are making me blush you really are oh hi cuck t hi venus hi ella really loved the uh the episode so far thank you um i've actually got a question from the from the march episode um the secrets of the elusive single cuckoldress episode um as for ella i really loved hearing your story uh about when you first off you cucked your your friend's wife and and then you transition from sub to dom and then you wanted to cuck a man yeah and you said that and you said that was for a variety of sexual and non-sexual reasons i just wondered if one of those non-sexual reasons was it to play a small part in dismantling the patriarchy by expressing your sexual freedom in a consensual way hmm you know yes i think um i i guess it wasn't thought, like, I'm going to do this to dismantle the patriarchy.
I think it was more conscious for me to realize my part in the patriarchy and then start to internalize how that doesn't seem right to me. or there's some things that I find really questionable or morally questionable. And then once that internalizes, to me, sexuality and eroticism and what turns you on, it's just, it's so deep inside. We don't create it. We don't control it. You know what I mean? This is such a big conversation in our communities. It's like, we are who we are. We like what we like. We didn't design it. We didn't choose it from a list of things.
This is, hmm, I'll be a sub today. Hmm, I'm going to be into leather today. It's like, it's so personal and it really is so deeply threaded into our psyches, our brains that it's like, you don't really choose it, but we do evolve and we do change. And I think it's because of our experiences in the world and what we start to see as positive and negative, morally correct, morally incorrect. And then the brain mushes it all around and pushes something out and says, this is what gets you off now. And it's so incredibly complex.
And I am nowhere near any kind of sexual researcher or doctor on this subject. So forgive my very inept language. But did I choose to dismiss? I started to explore it because it was just what turned me on. And maybe it turned me on because I had started to question, well, to be honest with you guys a long time ago, I've always been this raging person that was like, ah. So, you know, but yeah, I'm very, you know, I count myself as a sort of a fluid person when it comes to some of these sort of sexual spectrums. I'm bi, pansexual. I am a switch. I'm a top and a bottom. I'm an up and a down.
And with cuckolding, I love everything to do with the mind fuckery around it so much that once I got into it and I realized like, oh shit, you can cuck men too. I'm going to do this now. And that really did sort of like turn me into this top-minded person that started to understand the power dynamics of the top in a way I never had before.
And I think if you're going to go out there and claim your sexuality no matter what it is and you're going to claim it without shame and you're going to claim it as a beautiful thing that you do consensually consensually with like-minded adults consensually with safety and ethical practices to your you know uh to your mind um fully covered and fully talked about then you are revolutionizing the system you know what i mean no matter what it is yeah and if you because one of the things someone commented on earlier i think it may have been shawn or scarlett one of the things that i'd like to see reach the the zeitgeist outside our communities is sex without shame we're so shamed just in western societies i'd say we're probably shamed all over the world by this, but we're so ashamed of our own sexuality and taught to be ashamed of our sexualities, our natural desires, that all sorts of bad things happen from that.
We really need to start naming that as the bad thing that it is. And I know millions of people already are. I know Venus already is. I know a lot of you guys already are. So let's just keep saying we deserve to experience our sexuality, our consensual safe sexuality without shame. And so there are certain sexualities that are not okay. And there's some things that it just needs to be adults, like-minded consent, et cetera. So I'm not trying to say anything you could possibly feel is okay. It's like, no, we need to interrogate safety. We need to interrogate equitability.
And so these things have to be involved in all areas of our lives, including our own sexualities. And once that starts to happen, we'll start to see a lot more consent happening. We'll start to see a lot more safety happening. We'll start to see a lot more people happy in their own bodies. And when people are happy in their own bodies, they don't Thank you. to see a lot more consent happening. We'll start to see a lot more safety happening. We'll start to see a lot more people happy in their own bodies. And when people are happy in their own bodies, they don't hurt other people.
They don't want to violently attack other people. You know what I mean? Like these things are connected and we can start to say, yes, I'm going to use my sexuality to dismantle the patriarchy because it is representation and it does.
And when women start to go there and say this is me and you i i say what this is yes exactly but the structure of this lifestyle naturally lifts this up to make this the statement women are in charge of their sexuality yes that is disruptive and what i've what i've seen and i i feel like you know it's not the reason i wanted to be a cuck i agree that that was because i was submissive and that you know she wanted two men and i just agree because i'm submissive and i just love it but but i agree it feels like we're part of the you know revolutionizing the system and especially when we tell people about it so my wife wanted to tell her mum because she's out sometimes seeing her boyfriend and she didn't want to lie about where she was so and that actually had the effect of empowering her mum a little bit with her you know relationship decisions quite quite strongly and so i think just telling people about it really helps to to revolutionize the system and and of course you're both doing that in a massive way here right now so thank you very much for that is you know that's what i particularly like about about venus your podcast is it spreading the word about that and really taking those steps towards uh dismantling the petrokey so thank you for that oh you're welcome I don't know.
Is it spreading the word about that and really taking those steps towards dismantling the patriarchy? So thank you for that. Oh, you're welcome. I'm happy to be able to affect some change in the sphere of sexuality and safety for women. Yay. Absolutely. But also the mental health and safety for men as well.
So, yeah, that's important right right absolutely and i i want to start doing i don't know if i'll be able to but i was so inspired by the way you wanted the way you started your podcast venus but when you said about that i i really want to start my own podcast to help help men in in the way you've been speaking do it do it i will help you in everything that you need help with oh wow thank you so much i mean um it's not to talk about now because it's off topic a little bit but but you know i've been talking to shy about it um and it's something really passionate about.
So, yeah, maybe we can talk sometime about that. Oh, fucking hell yes. That is a 100% yes. Yes. Oh, wow. So thank you. Thank you so much. Great. Well, thank you, Cook Tea, for popping up. I appreciate that. An excellent question for Ella. Like, holy, that was a good question.
okay uh castaway uh good afternoon ladies or or evening uh for our person across the atlantic um you know really enjoying uh this conversation uh you know something uh that you know kind of piggybacks a bit on what scarlet and uh cutty says kind of coincided with uh you know observation i've had um you know in the uh yeah i guess in particular the non-vanilla scene is um i think it also dovetails with that kind of list of three observations that uh ella had at the top it seems to be kind of a bit of a delta or gap between and you know i say this as there's more than two uh genders but more of like you know masculine presenting people and let's say feminine presenting people in like seeking community in addition to you know the uh you know the particular person or archetype that they're looking for you know things like that and you know venus you know for example is i know you have your uh ladies you know kit group you know things like that and i think it's just like i think the ladies have more of a head start on like building you know or and having the desire and the capacity and the kind of wherewithal to like build a community around you know the their interest in addition to the more single-minded pursuit of you know that person to fill that you know desire you know kind of partner you know role or roles and uh you know is i guess but you know my question was like uh you know ella is this something that's been you know part of your observation you know as well and that uh you know, I guess, you know, my question was like, you know, Ella, is this something that's been, you know, part of your observation, you know, as well?
And that, you know, there's kind of a bit of a gap, you know, in this, you know, I guess this could be, you know, vanilla or non-vanilla. But it just seems like, you know, women are a little bit better at building, you know, communities, you know, around, you know, you know, kind of having a more well--rounded experience and that kind of helps, like, I think it just helps you be a more well-rounded person.
Also, I think there's kind of active traffic and passive traffic, you know, this could like, you know, help with, you know, kind of getting some passive traffic going to anyway, that's, uh, you know, my, my spiel. Yeah.
So do you, you mean like, are women better at building community than men and like have i observed that or is that that's yeah yeah i guess yeah i guess i mean i'll tell with some of like what you were saying sure sure yeah very generally speaking i think that's a really great point and i think that's something that needs to be acknowledged that you know one of the things we're sort of like telling men, hey, go do this, like make friends, have a community, build like these, build these relationships that you can have.
We don't need to prioritize the sexual romantic relationship over friendships, you know, and we see a lot of men sometimes really saying, well, this is the relationship that has to be prioritized. And it's like, well, can we find a balance? And can we find a balance that feels appropriate for you and your partner, appropriate for you and your friends and your lifestyle, et cetera? Yeah.
But, you know, here's something that I think feels worth saying regarding this subject is that when men aren't, don't know how to build community or feel like there are challenges with doing that, one of the things that I would love to, for the community to, you know, talk about is how can we, how can we make that something that, that men gravitate towards and that feels like something that's accessible to men?
You like why isn't it accessible what are the qualities of building community that feel not safe or not okay and um one of the commenters earlier was saying something about um uh you know sort of like disrupting the patriarchy and um sort of like seeing this tipping point in how other men view men who are, you know, not displaying typical masculine norms. And then they attack or they, attack isn't the right word, but they, they criticize it. They try to put them down. Right. And what can we, what can we do to make that not successful anymore? Yeah.
Can, can men be out there displaying other masculine traits that are healthy, whole and, and integrated into quote unquote femininity? You know, like I said on the podcast earlier, there's nothing unique. There's nothing uniquely feminine about sensitivity or crying. There's nothing uniquely masculine about anger or like, you know, sternness, whatever you want to call it. You know what I mean? These are all human traits. We're all humans together.
So how can men go out there, feel safe displaying something coded as feminine and not be taken down by men who want to destroy other men who want to destroy that and uphold patriarchal masculine norms? And then maybe then we can start to see men gather into community and have it be safer and have it be maybe more robust or more successful or more open. You know what I mean?
Like there's these sort of steps that I think that we could take or that can, that are possible to be taken that can lead towards this sort of deficit of feeling like men can come together in community, express fears, express desires, express problems, express hurt, pain. You know, we've all been through so much and men, this is the thing I need to say, we need to say over and over again, men are hurt too by this. Like there are valid emotions that need care and attention here.
They deserve to have their feelings attended to because there's some real deep wounds happening when you're sort of like, you know, forced into this mold. And I think that's one of the things I'd love to have conversations around and see what people say about like, when you're out there in the world, and men want to ridicule other men for being something typically not masculine, what is the response that says, go fuck off, caveman? You know what I mean?
Like, what is the response that says, listen, caveman you know what i mean like what is the response that says listen you just don't get it and i don't need your approval i don't like what do we do you know because then we can have more robust community like this like 466 is saying you know what i mean like how can we see that grow and thrive uh right and i think you made a nice point about how you know it's worth uh looking at you know the supply side of the ledger as well as the uh demand um and you know how do you build kind of on ramps you know connecting the two uh and i i think yeah just also like kind of just the you know from you know my point of view it's just like the benefits of like and all the above approach of like if you're you know looking to you know if this is something you're you know pursuing it's worth you know building you know connections of people who aren't necessarily your you know potential romantic partners as well yeah i just think of like you know again like the gap between you know let's say We'll be right back.
who aren't necessarily your you know potential romantic partners as well yeah i just think of like you know again like the gap between you know let's say you know maybe you know you before you bet your current partner or you know or you know venus in a you know in a situation or something like that has like some kind of oh i had this uh nightmare you know date or whatever with somebody and then you have like your you know four or five girlfriends who you can talk to and i just think you probably you know that's probably a higher number than probably just the garden variety you know male opposite who has his you know thinking then maybe has like maybe has one person you know i'm just you know kind of just you know giving law of averages here and and yeah exactly but that's a really good point that's a gap to the you know, the things you were talking about at the beginning is like, you know, the, you know, you just want to build out that kind of robust, you know, network communication, you know, as much as possible to, you know, bridge some of this gap that we're, you know, reading about and hearing anecdotally, you know, in, you know, communication and the skills gap.
Absolutely.
I think that we are actually seeing that, that trend to, uh, or not a trend, but like there it's moving, I think in the right direction where we're seeing the men in the lifestyle, really, um, pushing towards connection with each other or just pushing the expectations or ideas of masculinity within this a lifestyle i think confident cuck is a good example of that this guy doesn't give a flying fuck about what other people think he literally is like so out about it he's like i don't give a fuck i told my friends about it i don't give a fuck what are they gonna do yeah he he gives so zero fucks he's actually taking fucks yes he's taking fucks he's a net taker of fucks yes it's true but like you know he'll go out there and he'll debate it with people about this whole idea of masculinity and what it should look like and all of this shit and and how men you know are viewed in this kind of relationship you go out there and fucking debate people like i mean he has like he doesn't give a fuck at all and i love that and he reaches out to other men in the lifestyle and you know it talks to them and answers their questions and stuff.
And then like, just a really great example was just now when Cuck T said, I really want to start a podcast, I really want to talk about this. This is exactly what we need from the men in this lifestyle to reach out and connect with each other. Um, and that's the reason why I started this podcast was because I wanted to reach women and it has not been an easy task. Let me tell you, like blogging for years, I, it was 90, 96% men reading my blog, even though I was trying to connect with women. And so it is not easy, but you can do it.
And so I do think that we are seeing this within the lifestyle. We are seeing small steps in the right direction. Having these conversations, having men chime in on these conversations and say like, yes, this is important. We do need to do this. We do need to be able to, you know, learn. We acknowledge the skills gap. Let's just fucking acknowledge it, you know. And can I briefly make, draw a connection to what we're talking about, having this, men having this resiliency to sort of disrupt masculine identities that they don't want to be anymore or embody anymore.
One of the things that you can learn in therapy is how to deal with this sense of internalized shame. Because I want to say, I think what men are trying to do to other men is shame them for how they're acting. And that's obviously fucking violent and horrible and inappropriate and wrong on so many levels. And one of the things that we can develop resilience towards is this idea that we should feel shame for shunning standards and norms.
And so I think this is an example, like a very key example that draws us back to the original sort of – one of the first points was this guy from Psychology Today saying, men, prioritize your mental wellness, go to therapy. And that's one of the things you learn in therapy because the shame is fucking toxic. You want to avoid it at all costs. And I think that we can do better for each other if we can sort of deflect that. We should probably wrap this up because it's been a little bit over an hour. I feel like we could go on and on.
And there were some really good comments that just popped up in the chat that I would love to talk about. So how about this? How about we do this again? Ooh, part two. I'm so in. I'm so in. Yeah. But let's do this as we'll invite as many of the guys up to chat and talk about this as possible. This is going to be, yeah, let's do that. Thank you so much, Venus, for facilitating this and for inviting me on. I feel so honored. I, I'm, I really don't have a, I'm not like a sexologist.
I don't have a public presence, but I'm just an interested, you know, I'm just an interested participant with, you know, thoughts, but, um, I appreciate you so much for letting me on the podcast and starting this conversation. And thanks to the audience who's listening. You guys are great. Yes. Thank you to you, Ella.
And thank you to everybody who has popped in for the chat today thanks for spending an hour of your and a bit of your day with us listening to this you know serious conversation but i'm really happy that everybody was able to pop in and hopefully you'll be able to join us next time um all right i'm gonna go ahead and close down this room thank you everybody we'll see you next time bye folks bye all right that's it for this bonus encore episode with ella hope you loved it make sure you go to venuscuckoldrist.com that's where you can find the queen's quarters fan hub definitely want to check that out there is a two-week free trial going on right now so check it out and also make sure that you check out the venus cuckoldress podcast on full swap radio every tuesday at 5 p.m and 11 p.m central time that's full swap radio.com or on their new app.
You can also follow me on Twitter. My handle is at CuckoldressV. That's it for today, and we'll see you next time. have you heard of afterglow you guys this is so amazing you've you've probably heard me talk about cuck porn before and how much i'm not really a big fan. And why? Because it's not really made for women, right? But Afterglow is different. Afterglow is ethical porn made by women for women. Well, it's for everyone, but it is especially for women. And I'll give you an example. They have hot wifing videos that one of them is that I watched. It was narrated by a woman. okay so hot hot.
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With the code Venus, you can try it out for a week. The website is xoafterglow.com. And the code you need for your free week is Venus. That's xoafterglow.com. Check out the show notes if you can't remember if you just want the link. Enjoy.
